Senate Standing Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs

Good afternoon, folks. And let's see. What is green day today? Saint Patty's Day. Sorry, but I completely forgot.

But I went home for the weekend and I cooked for my husband, so he's having a good time having corned beef and cabbage. The committee on transportation is on its hearing agenda of March 17, Saint Patty's Day at 03:00 in Room 229. And we will say, just a refresher that all testifiers, we ask that you stand on your written testimony or limit your oral testimony to two minutes. However, this committee has always been, very, allowable to have dialogue between, the members and myself and appreciate that efforts for those testifying that always are available for this committee. And we will have decision making will follow certainly after hearing, the agenda items.

So we'll proceed then with, HB 1510 and this is relating to license plates. And this is the conditions, the issuance of a certificate of inspection upon a vehicle, not being equipped with any cover or shield installed over the license plate, amends the penalty for obstruction of a license plate. It allows state or county parking enforcement officers and persons authorized by a state or county law enforcement agency to issue citations for vehicles with a cover or shield obstructing the license plate. DOT. Okay. The ones that we needed to have today on Zoom.

Okay.

Hi, good afternoon chair, vice chair, members of the committee, Robin Chishido with HDOT and we stand by your testimony in support.

Okay. Thanks Robin for being available today. Judiciary, Michelle Acosta, sends communication or with comments and Johnny May Perry, sends communication in support of this measure. Members, any questions of, DOT, if you have any, otherwise, we will move on to HB 1523 relating to the state statewide traffic code. And this removes references to countdown timers, as it relates to pedestrian control signals, including the requirement that pedestrians must begin crossing a roadway before a countdown timer begins.

This is an interesting item. We've had measures of this members in our Senate bills. Let's call on Department of Health. Okay. They send communications, all with comments. DOT.

Robin Shishido DOT stand by our written testimony in opposition of this measure.

Okay. And members, since Robin is on, let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, Robin. If you can, continue to be available. Hawaii Appleseed Center for Law and Economic Justice. Good to see you, Malia. Yes. And you know, this is an interesting bill. And I think we did have measures like this in our Senate bills that were heard. I'm not sure if this is the companion or it is a companion bill. Come on up. And mahalo coming over today.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee. My name's Malia Boksanski testifying today on behalf of Hawaii Appleseed in strong support of HB 1523. This bill proposes a necessary modification to HRS 291-c.

So currently, if a pedestrian enters the crosswalk after the countdown timer has already begun, they're committing a citable violation. They're subject to up to a $130 fine. We really believe that this rule contradicts, you know, the conventional understanding of why we have countdown timers. They aren't meant to be a stop signal. They are really designed, you know, to provide pedestrians with additional information, so they can judge for themselves if they have enough time to cross the street.

And then just to be clear, the bill does not change the existence of countdown timers. It really just removes, that restriction as a citable violation. Yeah. And by passing this bill, we can reduce unnecessary barriers to walking, particularly for our residents who walk out of necessity. A $130 ticket is really a significant financial burden for some of our residents who are simply trying to navigate our community.

So, yeah, we support this measure. We believe it's a vital step toward really simplifying our overly complex and burdensome pedestrian regulations. Yeah. Mahalo for letting me testify on this measure.

Since you're here, did you just say that this measure does not conflict with the timers? Okay. my understanding with this bill, it removes the countdown timers.

No. So I know this restriction went into place in 2019. So we did have countdown timers before that. This restriction in our statewide traffic code just makes it a citable violation, when pedestrians cross the street once the countdown timer has already begun.

So only on the enforcement side?

Yes. So we will still have the countdown timers. This bill is just trying to achieve reducing those barriers for pedestrians and, you know, punitive fines for crossing.

Okay. One more question. If, if I read this right as well and understanding, and we had other measures previously, so are we saying that, well, the bill says, and according to the statute that no pedestrian shall start to cross the roadway in the direction of the signal, whether flashing or steady, it says, but any pedestrian who has partially completed the crossing shall complete the crossing while the don't walk or the palm signal is showing. .

I think a good example of this, like crossing Britannia today, I had, like, the crosswalk. I was ready to go. I had the walking guy come up, and a car made a right turn. They made a right turn in front of me. That delayed some time, and then the countdown timer started going. So technically I'm not supposed to cross the street at point.

Correct.

So basically this bill is just allowing me. I still had thirty seconds. I know I could make it across in fifteen seconds. So, yeah, just getting rid of that kind of barrier, making sure instances like that, pedestrians are not getting fined for crossing the street with ample time.

And not approaching the getting off the sidewalk onto the crosswalk before the timer. That's an understanding. Right? Okay. Alright. Okay. We're looking at each other. Yes. I know.

Question is for DOT at the appropriate time.

Okay. Good. Yeah. It seems like there was some confusion in our discussions previously as well. So, any questions?

Oh, yeah.

Just for for Malia.

Yeah. Just so again, because I was at, crossing Punchbowl from Honolulu Hale to here like two weeks ago. I remember this explicitly because there's in one crosswalk, there's two different countdown timers, side by side, and they have different numbers on them counting down which is its own issue. But, generally, when it turned and I had to wait multiple cycles because I was trying to record it on my phone to see how silly it was. There was like probably, I don't know, three seconds where it was like you're white guy safe to cross and then it was I think like a 45 second countdown to cross just a couple lanes and so theoretically if you're not in those three seconds stepping forward then you cannot cross at all.

Despite the fact that there's a super long wait where everybody's just so this fixes that is what you're saying. Okay.

Yes. Okay. Good. Well, we have to consider as well that our senior population is growing and we're living longer and it takes a while for seniors to beat that countdown.

And so we have to be very, recognizing that we should be addressing, you know, the timers as well, the timing and when we should be there. But it's, I guess once we all pass bills and it gets into statutes, I think we need to continue to bring you know, put out and educate people about what's happening because we're, I'll tell you, I'm in Chinatown, and there's a lot of jaywalking going on as well and having people make sure that they're in the crosswalk. Okay. Senator Alafonte. It's a question for Malia.

Alright. Robin, please, DOT. IT, can we have DOT back on?

Thank you, Malia.

Thank you.

Oh, DOT, at the appropriate time.

And I can hear you folks, at least. Okay. There we go.

Okay. Alright.

Thank you, madam chair. Hi, Deputy Director Shishido. So my understanding is this would eliminate countdown timers. So, basically, countdown timer devices on our roadways. Is that correct?

When we read the bill, you know, it just crosses out that one part that says, you know, with traffic signals with the countdown timer, you know, a pedestrian can, seems like it could enter the crosswalk, you know, when the timer is going. And maybe that's something else needs to be clarified exactly by just removing that one part in the, in that section 291c-33. Is it just removing that reference, but it's still you know, national standards is, you know, when you have that countdown, you know, you're not supposed to enter the crosswalk. You only enter the crosswalk when you have that white walking man symbol.

Right. So I understand that part, and I know there was some technical cleanup in previous years past to make it a violation if you're in the roadway during the countdown. . But I think the concern that I have is if we're repealing this section on page two subsection three on countdown timer, then for the devices that are already in existence, would you have to remove those countdown timers and what the cost would be for that?

Yeah. From the bill, we weren't sure either, and if, yeah, there's a lot of traffic signals between the state and county. So, if that's the purpose or requirement, that would be a lot of effort to change those out to flashing sign I mean, the flashing hand, which would put you in the same position that you have with the timer. So that's why we oppose it. It doesn't, it kinda creates some confusion then.

Yeah. And I think it could potentially create some confusion for folks as well. And I think, Madam Chair, it comes down to enforcement. So, I think it's that maybe this is an enforcement issue rather than repealing sections of the law but thank you for the clarification.

Robin, similarly, the question regarding the statute on 33. So, the reason for objection from DOT is, because we're eliminating the area that Senator Elefante referenced, deleting that portion. Is that correct?

Yeah. Because, you know, right now, again, nationally, and, you know, it's currently, you know, when that countdown comes on, which is similar to when the hand starts flashing, you're not supposed to enter the crosswalk. It's for you to finish crossing. And, you know, on some I know on some signals, especially along Farrington Highway, in the last couple years, we have put up placards to, you know, educate pedestrians on when to cross, when not to cross, and when to finish up crossing. But, yeah, that'll be the confusion because then pedestrians may not know, you know, if this law passes, they can enter, not enter, and, you know, the cars approaching to, they may not recognize that people are going to be entering or not entering.

You cannot enter.

You know, Robin, I'm confused myself. If I'm on the crosswalk and I see the timer, I'm still crossing. And so now we're saying when the timer is on, you can't, you can't even get stepping onto the crosswalk at the outset.

Correct. That that's I mean, currently.

You know what? I don't think people understand, you know. I I don't think people understand that because, you know, here, the population much greater than my island in Hilo, but, you know, and we have longer crossroads here, and we got two sections of a highway. But I I see people, no matter what, if you have thirty seconds left or 25 it's to me, it's still time I can make it if it's a single lane. But you're saying that, this takes away that?

You're legally in an enforcement stage, then we can be, we can be charged with getting into the crosswalk?

I mean, for real. Right now, if you enter with the countdown, I mean, that's illegal. And with this law, just removing that reference to, you know, no pedestrian shall, then we weren't sure if it still means you cannot or I mean, that that's where it was a little, gonna get confusing and maybe it needs to cut off.

You wanna come up and give us some arguments and tell us how you feel or Appleseed?

Yeah. I think for us at Hawaii Appleseed, I mean, we we recognize that this bill has caused a lot of confusion. Like, what does it mean getting rid of this restriction? For us, it is more of an enforcement change rather than an infrastructure change. Like I said earlier, like, we have we've had countdown timers at our intersections before 2019 when this went into our statewide traffic code.

So for us, it's not an infrastructure change. It's really just if people believe that they have enough time to cross the street safely within that countdown timer time, they can go ahead and we we don't believe getting a citable violation for that is the best way, to go about things. I think at Hawaii Appleseed, we really wanna make sure people have access to our our islands, and I think making it more burdensome and putting restrictions on crossing the street. That, yeah, definitely sets a barrier. So, yeah, just to reiterate, it's more of a getting rid of that fine, rather than making any infrastructure changes.

I doubt it. If the any, like, city and county of Honolulu, if they're going to well, it'll create jobs, but I'm not sure if the force is even capable of putting as many police officers around in our city. And that's a concern. Another thing too is pretty much Ala Moana Waikiki, where we have a lot of visitors around, and it can be like if the cruise ships, the departures from the, you know, the visitors coming out, they're all in a big bunch.

And I'll tell you, they wanna make sure that they cross the street and they know that they have time, but timing to do that. So this is kinda serious. Okay. Alright. Members. Yes.

For DOT? Yeah.

Okay. Yes. Senator Lee for Robin, please. Thanks.

Hey. Thanks very much. My understanding right now is a lot of the public currently believes that it is legal to cross the street when there's a countdown timer

That's right.

Counting down. I think part of that is not only that that's just kind of the standard practice in most places besides Hawaii, but just seems pretty reasonable to read the countdown timers that way that you have this much time to get across the street. Does that seem like a reasonable assumption from the public right now?

I I do think public looks at the timer and they, like you know, senator Inouye mentioned that they're judging like, oh, I can still make it. But nationwide, when you have the countdown timer, it's if you have entered the crosswalk, you know, that's the amount of time you'll have to cross the street. But I don't think in any jurisdiction, it's you can enter the crosswalk once that countdown timer has started, similar to when the, you know, the red hand starts flashing. So, typically, at the intersections, you probably have the white walking person maybe somewhere between three to seven seconds, you know, depending probably on the, amount of pedestrian traffic you have. And during that time is the only time you can enter the crosswalk.

The remainder when it's flashing red or counting down is to finish crossing and not and you cannot be entering at that time.

My understanding is that definitely in the past there was a time that was the case, but especially in the last maybe decade or two, the best practice has switched to providing ability to cross, but lengthening the countdown timer time so that it's clear that from the minute the light changes, let's say, the countdown timer basically starts and you have as a reasonable regular person trying to cross the street, the best understanding of how much time there actually is to cross the street before it's a hard, you know, do not cross hand, red hand that shows up. Because I think to the chair's point, if you're a senior citizen or slower or a wheelchair or whatever, right, you gotta know exactly how much time and no one knows better than you how much effort and time is gonna take to actually cross that street. I think the the challenge is when it's illegal to then enter when there's only a few seconds given on the white guy. It's, basically, prevents people from crossing at all, in many cases, especially I think to the other testifier's point when there's still cars going. Right?

And by the time the cars are done going or turning, it's already counting down. That basically means you just can't cross the street ever. Doesn't that present kind of a problem?

He's smiling. Yes.

So, I think it's a lot of the, I mean, you know, it's driver pedestrians both doing their part. Right? I mean, like, the case where you have the white and then the car makes that right turn is I'm assuming it's that right turn on red that they're doing. And so it's that person not paying attention, you know, recognizing there's a pedestrian. They're ready to enter that crosswalk.

Sometimes. Other times, like, in fact, when we were walking, let's say, across Vineyard often, right, you get cars backing up because of the light changes and all that stuff. And so, you literally can't even start until probably sometimes like 10, 15 seconds into the light change, at which point the thing's already I don't think there's a countdown timer on that particular light, but the thing's already flashing at you. And so, I think the question then becomes if we can, do you guys have the ability to either re-time all the timers reasonably, like right now, or do we change the statutes that people can reasonably use their best judgment to cross when they feel it's safe for them without incurring a citation?

Yeah. All the traffic signals, the phasing can be changed. I mean, I think a lot of it, you would have to go to the actual signal controller, make that change, so it'd be very time consuming, laborious. You know, with the other things that putting in LPIs, the pedestrian, you know, timers or phases, that's another way to help pedestrians, you know, cross where you don't have those cars making any movements too.

Sure. And I don't wanna put you guys on the spot or anything, but we had the LPI conversation, I think, three years ago now, and I don't think they're in any scaled stage of rollout...

Yeah.

...Is my understanding, but people are crossing the street every day. So anyway, I just raised this to get some clarity. Thank you, Chair.

Oh yes. And Robin, I'm thinking now that when did we start the countdown? I was here in the early ten years from '98 when I left in 2008 and I think I could have, this was a discussion we had, and I think that's when we encouraged making changes. And I believe, probably that time was when the timer thing came up or a little after, and it seemed like it was very encouraging to the general public that we start doing this, but it kind of bothers me now. It seems like we're reversing the action for the safety of the people on the street.

So this is kind of interesting that, you know, we're dealing with something like this, and I'm kinda surprised that my Big Island Senator, from the House, who's the Judiciary Chair is introducing this measure, which makes it a little more difficult. Now interesting, I know that it used to be all of the traffic signals used to be under DOT, and then thereafter, it did, we sent it out to the counties to manage. I know for the Big Island, the County of Hawaii manages the traffic lights for the state. Is it true with city and county? On all the counties?

On Oahu, it's City and County. On Maui, County does their own, the State does their own. And on Kauai Island, State does their own.

Yeah. And I believe that with the funding source, we're paying the cities and the counties to do that for us. Right?

On Oahu and on, Hawaii Island. Yes.

Correct. And to, Senator Lee's question about, the timing and making changes. So, with that said, with that direction, because you're still the, DOT is still responsible for the management of the system, whether it's on the County control or not. Right?

Yeah. I mean, well, for the ones at the County control, like, City, County Honolulu, I mean, yeah...

Yeah. Because I think, at this point in time, they are it's necessary that we make changes to the countdown because you can go to any part of the intersections in this city. There's quite a bit of to me, I think, irregularities with regards to the timing. And so, I'm thinking now, do we add language to ensure that, to make sure that every all the counties abide with making the necessary changes or some reform? Or can you folks at DOT do that in your own policies or rules?

Yeah. In our own policies and rules, I mean, you know, every 3-5 years, you should be going out to traffic signals, you know, re-taking counts again, both pedestrian and vehicular counts because, you know, land use changes and so forth, traffic pattern changes, and re-time the signals all that way. So it's a ongoing, you know, always evaluating and re-timing.

And you're still, DOT is still involved with working with the counties with regards to what we talk about?

Yes. Yes.

Okay. Alright. Because I hate to, it's something, sometimes we add all kinds of stuff to statutes and if it's not necessary, you can do it administratively. That would be great. Okay. Senator Elefante.

Yeah. As a follow-up to that, Deputy Director Shishito, I think some of the best source of remedy could be the education component. So, in the line of Chair's questioning, perhaps maybe continuing to work with the counties and educating counties on existing law as it relates to this, like, by PSAs could be a potential solution to educate folks about current existing laws.

Okay.

Alright. Thank you. Yes. Senator yes. Senator DeCorte.

Deputy Director. Thank you. Do you folks have any numbers of maybe how many citations were given out currently of the people who did step in the crosswalk during the countdown?

No. I don't have numbers offhand. I'm sure we could check with the various police departments and get an idea, though. We can provide that.

Oh, Malia, you have, could you come? Thank you.

Yeah. So Hawaii Appleseed actually looked at, jaywalking citations over a period of six years. So that was from 2018 to 2023. Unfortunately, the jaywalking citations for crossing on the don't walk sign are grouped together with the crossing during the countdown timer. So it is a little muddled, but they do make up 46% of the jaywalking citations that were given out during that six year period.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Vice chair, can you take over? I have to take this call. Thank you.

Continuing on. Anyone else on House Bill 1523 that the Chair did not call?

Vice Chair, we have Heidi Hansen Smith of DOH and Lauren Lure on Zoom.

Okay. We'll go to Heidi Hansen Smith on Zoom, and we'll go to the next testifier on Zoom, and then we'll take in person. Aloha. Welcome.

Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee. I'm Heidi Hansen Smith for the Department of Health, and we're just going to stand on our testimony with comments on this measure, here if you have any questions. So, thank you.

Okay. Thank you for being here. And then Lauren Loor for Hawaii Public Health Institute. Is that correct, IT on Zoom?

Hi. Thank you for waiting.

Oh, no problem. Thank you so much. My name is Lauren Loor. I'm testifying on behalf of Hawaii Public Health Institute and the Healthy Eating Act of Living Statewide Coalition in support of this bill. We stand on our written testimony and support the comments made by Hawaii Appleseed. We do believe that this measure supports safer streets and would help people walk safely to work services, school and recreation, and improve safety overall with less confusion for everybody. So, thank you so much for the opportunity to testify.

K. Thank you, Lauren. That completes those that have registered to testify. I do see Kate Thompson. And you do have two minutes to testify. Aloha. Welcome.

Probably be twenty seconds. I was just thinking that the penalty of a $130 is pretty intense for an area where there needs to be more education. And since there are federal rules regarding how the hand works and where the citations have to happen, it might be easier just to reduce the fine to like $25 so that it's not so burdensome to the public. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you so much. That completes anyone else on House Bill 1523. Yes, sir. If you could please come forward. State your name.

If you could just state your name for the record, and I'll turn it back over to Madam Chair.

My name is Jonathan Lott. I'm a Waikiki resident. Thank you for addressing this matter. It's very, obvious to me living in Waikiki for almost thirty years. I've never seen someone get cited for jaywalking. So, I've had many New Yorkers and other people say, the thing is still counting. Like, so they don't realize that it's illegal.

That's true.

So that plus it's kind of a manini thing for the police. The only time I've seen anything is a plainclothes officer standing waiting for it, the cross, and people were about to go. And he said uh-uh, that's it.

Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you and be safe. Alright. Yes.

...This is all written. So...

This is done?

I didn't call it in.

Okay. Alright. Department of Health.

They testified already.

Yep.

They did?

Okay. Alright. Okay. Alright, we'll continue with the testifiers. We did receive all in support. If you are here, then raise your hand. Eduardo Hernandez, that's from the Bicycling League.

Stand on our written comments. Thank you.

Thank you. Lorna Holmes, Jonathan Lott, Jonathan Han, William Caron, Kiana Otsuka, and John Tomoso. Is there anyone else? Kate, you did testify already. I saw you up here. Okay. Anyone else wishes to speak on HB 1523? All right. We'll say Aloha to that measure and we'll proceed with HB 1696. And this is relating to commercial driver's licenses, and this lowers the age of who may drive commercially within the state from 19 to 18.

It repeals the requirement that a person only operates category three vehicles to qualify, to drive commercially in the state and requires DOT to amend its rules to lower the minimum age required in a commercial driver's licenses. DOT.

Hi, Robin with DOT. Standby. You're sending your testimony in support.

Okay. Thank you. Department of Labor and Industrial Relations. I know you're not Jade Butay. Thank you for being around during this busy time and representing the agency.

Well, I don't get to come before you too often. Chair Inouye, Vice Chair Elefante, members, Jay Ishibashi on behalf of Director Butay. We stand on our testimony supporting the intent.

Okay. Thank you. City and County of Honolulu, Department of Customer Services, in support, Hawaii Transportation Association on Zoom.

Aloha. Happy St. Patrick's Day. We are in strong support of this measure. We feel that, it's something that's much needed to keep our young people here in Hawaii and not moving to the Mainland. So thank you.

Yes. And thank you for being here when we heard the Senate version as well. Appreciate that. So it's over in the house. So I think we're all in the same on the same page. Thanks, Tina. Hawaiian council, Madeline McKeege, and Johnny May Perry in support. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak to HB 1696? Okay.

We're moving along very nicely so far. We'll proceed with HB 2020 and this is relating to renewal of driver's licenses. This requires certain applicants for driver's license renewal to complete an educational course that includes a road safety video developed by DOT, and a written examination. It authorizes the department to develop and implement a system to randomly require applicants for renewable of the driver's license to complete a written examination. DOT.

Robert with DOT, stand by our submitted testimony in support. Thank you.

Okay. Office of public defender. Okay. They send testimony in opposition. City and county of Honolulu, department of customer services, comments. Johnny May Perry in support. Is there anyone wishes to speak on to HB 2020? Okay. Hearing none. Then, the chair will call for just a short recess. We do have a joint on one bill with regards to transportation. And this is with the Committee on Energy and what else is the IG?

All kinds of affairs. We love having affairs on our committee.

Okay. All right. So I I guess it's a recess, so I do we do have to start a new agenda for this measure. Okay. Alright.

Okay. Good afternoon. The Committees on Transportation and the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs is on its hearing notice of Tuesday, March 17 at 3:05, but it's 3:41 as we speak in Conference Room 229, and just some housekeeping measures as well. We hope that you can stand on your written testimony or limit your oral testimony to two minutes, and we will be making decision following this hearing on HB 2021 House Draft Two. And this is relating to transportation.

This establishes safe riding behaviors for electric bicycles, prohibits the operation of high-speed electric devices in certain locations. It also establishes labeling and signage requirements for electric bicycles. DOT. Thank you, Robin. Are you still with us?

Yes. Robin, again, with DOT, Chair, Vice Chair--

And we're on HB 2021.

Yep. DOT stands by its written submitted testimony in strong support. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. DCCA, Insurance Division. Thank you for patiently being with us today.

Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairs, vice chairs, and members of the committee. Jamie Yamamoto, on behalf of the Insurance Division. So, let's see. So we appreciate that our comments earlier to clarify the insurance requirements for electric bicycles had been incorporated, so our comments today just seek to add a little further clarity to that.

So that's why we propose to remove the term motor vehicle just because there are two separate articles in the Insurance Code, one for motor vehicles and one for motorcycles and motor scooters. So, you know, if the statute just reads that, you know, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to require insurance for the operation, we hope that would just add a little clarity for consumers and anyone else who, you know, buys electric bicycles. Thank you. Available--

It's more defining, yeah?

It's more defining the type of vehicle--

Huh?

Oh. So--

--as well?

Not necessarily in what we're defining. Sorry. Oh, we're just-- our comments just seek to remove the term motor vehicle, which would be on--

Oh, yes. I see that. Okay.

--section--

Delete the end, 291?

Yes.

291C?

Yes. Just because--

Remove the word motor vehicle?

Yes. And I will--

Keep the insurance exemption?

Yes. That's what-- yeah. We just seek to remove that one term.

Okay.

Thank you. Available for questions.

Okay. And members, anytime a testifier comes up, please feel free to let us know. We'll be happy to have you do your questioning. DOT--

Chair?

Yes. Oh, yes.

I have a question.

Senator DeCoite.

Please. Thank you.

Yes. DeCoite.

Thank you, Chair.

For DCCA, Senator?

Insurance-- can Insurance come forward?

Yes. Yes.

Okay. Thank you. So, as an additional protection, do you support requiring insurance for electric vehicles?

Support requiring insur--

Yeah. Insurance for electric vehicles.

That is something that I would-- I don't have the answer to at this time, so I would have to go speak to-- yeah. I would have-- I don't have the answer at this time, but that's something that I can ask a question to, maybe come back with an answer.

If you can, please. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. You're welcome. Any further questions? Okay. Let's proceed then with Judiciary. Sends communication. They have some comments as well. Bicycling League in support.

Good afternoon.

Oh, sorry. Oh, that's right. You're still here, and thank you so much for bearing with us.

My pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Stand on our written testimony but I do wanna make some points for clarification and context as I went through the testimony. Department of Education submitted testimony on this measure and they referenced their-- in November of 2025, they came out with guidance around this topic.

I'm not sure that they had any hearings or invited public comment during that, and they made that guidance in the absence of this law. This law was-- we've been working for several years to get it passed and it was not passed last session. So we're happy to work with the Department of Education to develop clear guidelines and guidance but we think that the law should come first and then Department of Education guidance afterwards. So we just wanna make that clear. This bill is really-- as much as it is about safety is also an economic issue.

It provides-- helps people to get transportation solutions, and by creating understanding about what these devices are and how they're used, we create solutions for people who need more affordable transportation options. So thank you very much. I'm happy to answer any questions.

I think at that time when DOE kind of looked at it, they were more concerned about any of the high-speed electrical devices, and I think that was a concern. There may have been an incident somewhere when DOE decided to do it on their own, but I-- but you're truly correct. It's best to have the statute first and then work thereafter, but I can tell you, nowadays with technology, anything can happen.

You're gonna get electric everything and then, you know, the impacts, unintended consequences sometimes, you know, affects many other areas, including schools, and I think they just were a little more ambitious trying to address incidences. Because as you say, you know, vehicles, whether it's electric bicycles or anything that would-- is available for students to bring to school, I guess they just wanted to make sure that they set some rules in place.

And one of the problems that we found with it, it was all. So it references if you're a teacher at an elementary school, you can't use an electric bicycle under this guideline. If you are a member of the public going to a neighborhood board at an elementary school, electric bicycles are prohibited under department's guidance. So we'd really like to work with them to clear that up and create safer solutions for everyone.

Sure. Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes. Senator Elefante may have a question for you.

Yes, Mr. Hernandez. So my understanding is governor vetoed what was passed last session. So do you feel the contents in this measure to regulate electric bikes addresses some of the concerns raised by the governor?

Yes. The concerns last-- that the governor raised were specifically that there might be some confusion over high-speed electric devices and the wording, and in this bill, it specifically calls out anything that might be considered a car is regulated as a vehicle and that this legislation refers specifically to electric bicycles, specifically Class 1, 2 and 3, not anything higher speed or higher powered. Those are not in the purview of this bill and it does address the concerns that the governor raised last year in his veto.

Okay. Thank you so much and thank you for your work on this.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right. We'll proceed with the Children's Action Network, Nicole Woo, in support. I will-- AAA, in support, Pearl City Neighborhood Board, in support, Ulupono in support, and Jonathan Lott.

I stand on my written testimony, and I'm really glad to see it's finally being addressed.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for being here as well. And we did-- all of the presenters or testifiers, they're all in support. If you're here, we'll be happy to have you stand up. Otherwise, in support: Michael Lerner, Jonathan Han, Johnnie-Mae Perry, Lisa Dow, David Ellis, Daphne Manago, and William Chismar. Anyone else wishes to speak on this measure, HB 2021? Please come forward. And we're happy to have you. We've had several bills today for City and County and from your other agency, but we're happy that PD is here.

Glad to be here.

Please.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee. My name is Major Bert Soria of the Traffic Division of the Honolulu Police Department, and I'm here in support of this House Bill 2021 HD 2, relating to transportation. So this bill establishes a clear and updated regulatory framework for electric bikes, electric micromobility devices, and other emerging electric transportation devices. It also strengthens public safety by establishing clear rules for electric bicycles and other micromobility devices, providing officers with consistent and enforceable standards.

It helps to reduce collision, protects minors through age and helmet requirements, and prevents high-speed devices from creating hazards in pedestrian areas. The updated definition enabling requirements also improve clarity for enforcement and future planning. Overall, this bill supports safer roads, clearer regulations, and more effective communication between riders, pedestrians, and law enforcement. The Honolulu Police Department urges you to support House Bill 2021 HD 2, relating to transportation. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Since you're here, we had measures on other areas like pedestrians and crosswalks, but with this incident, with this measure-- and it's in school, and with the police departments, you know, the coverage that you all do throughout the City and County of Honolulu, you don't find-- do you find anything that, you know, we've heard before on enforcement, but this is not as necessary, I guess, once we have something in statute that covers the area, would make things a little much easier for you folks?

Yes. That's correct.

Is that why you're here then--

Yes.

--in support of this measure?

In support of this measure.

Thanks. Any questions for Honolulu Police Department? I-- are you available to stay for other measures that we have on the Transportation Committee? Because we had a nice debate about traffic safety. But if you can't--

I'll be available.

--we understand. Your orders was to testify with this measure and we thank you for being here.

Thank you, Officer Soria. Okay. Anyone else wishes to speak to HB 2021? We won't go into recess to make decisions because our very active and gracious to me-- our Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Relations will proceed with the decision-making on this bill.

Thank you.

Yep. Always here to support you, Lorraine.

All right.

Transportation is all about moving forward.

That's right. Thank you. All right. Okay. The Chair's recommendation-- you got four?

I get them.

Okay, you get them. Okay, good. Okay, the Committees on Transportation and Energy and the Intergovernmental Affairs is going into decision-making, and we will pass this measure with the amendments from DCCA and the Department of Education as well. And I think that covers it pretty good about this measure and I think we-- we also feel good about moving this measure along. So for the Committee on Transportation, Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 2021 House Draft 2 with amendments. Any discussions? Hearing none, Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes aye.

Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 2021 House Draft 2 with amendments. Chair and Vice Chair vote aye. [Roll call]. Madam Chair, your recommendation's adopted.

Thank you.

For members of EIG, same recommendation. Any discussion? If not, Senator Chang, I vote yes.

Chair's recommendation for HB 2021 is to pass with amendments. For the EIG Committee, Chair votes yes. Vice Chair votes aye. [Roll call]. The recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Thank you, folks and the committee. We enjoyed the short time. I wish we'd do this more often. Short time. Okay. All right. Okay. This then-- this ends the joint Committee on Transportation and Energy and Intergovernmental--[recess].

Okay. Okay. The Committee on Transportation is going to continue with its hearing notice of today, the March 17th. We are proceeding with the-- just the Committee on Transportation agenda now. Okay. Are we 2020? We cut-- we're done with 2020, yeah. 2014? 2017--

2417.

2417. No? Okay. Alright. Let's proceed with HB 2417 house draft two, and this is relating to administrative license revocation, clarifies the administrative driver's license revocation procedures by specifying the effect of the notice of administrative, administrative revocation and con conforming related administrative review and hearing provisions. Okay. DOT.

Hi. Robin with DOT. I stand by your written submitted testimony in strong support. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Maui Prosecutor's Office sends testimony in support, Christine Denton for the Department of Prosecuting Attorney city and county of Honolulu in support. And of course our dear constituent in the county of Hawaii Office of the Prosecuting Attorney, Calvin Walton in support. Is there anyone else wishes to speak to HB 2417?

Okay. That's aloha for that measure, and we'll continue on with HB 2375, house draft two. This is relating to towing practices. This establishes a uniform towing practices for public parking facilities working group within the Department of Transportation to examine existing state and county laws, ordinances, rules, and administrative practices relating to towing from public parking facilities and develop recommendations for uniform standards applicable to towing from state and county parking facilities as well on 2375. Let's see.

I don't see DOT on this measure. DCCA. Good afternoon. Thanks for bearing with us today. And you don't look like Melissa. Okay.

My pleasure. Dominic Jancaterino reinforcement attorney with.

Dominic.

Don?

Dominic. Thank you.

I'm an enforcement attorney with OCP, the Office of Consumer Protection, stand on written testimony, and available for any questions.

Okay. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Okay. Wait now. You're in opposition. Okay. Alright. Thank you. Testifying for the Disability and Communication Exits Board.

Hi there. We stand on the testimony in support, and I request to be added as a member of the working group.

Got it. Got it. Thank you. Thank you for being here. And Kate.

Right in your alley. Yes. Thank you, Chair Inouye, Vice Chair Elefante, and members of this committee. I've been here before and I would like to stand on my written testimony but I would also like to take my two minutes since I've been kind of working on this for three years. So I hope you're all here with me.

I have a little bit of a blurry thing I'd like to just click to the people. Okay? I'll just in here. Let me see. It's comparing, like, a DAGS parking lot versus, what we have at DLNR voting. So you can kinda see it. Sorry it's blurry. We'll probably get to a better, version of it soon.

But my name is Kate Thompson. I'm the Director of surfparking.org. I'm here in strong support of HB 2375. This bill is needed because parking enforcement across our state facilities has become fragmented and inconsistent. Today, we have a patchwork of systems and parking management contracts that leave the public confused about how to park, what rules apply, and what penalties they may have to face.

Signages is inconsistent between different state and city parking areas. The payment systems also vary, and enforcement can range from a citation to an immediate tow even in similar search situations such as a meter overstay. As divisions expand the use of private parking concessions and the technologies advance such as license plate reader and license plate, technology, scan codes for paying and things like this. These inconsistencies are even more burdensome for the public, and the public is asking for clear statewide standards grounded in Hawaii revised statutes and administrative rules. HB 2375 helps restore consistency, accountability, and transparency by placing the oversight at an appropriate level, a high level.

There's a lot of high level people going to be on this working group and we appreciate that these great minds will come together and come up with something for the public. So we have the Department of Consumer Affairs only has three lawyers and the AG's office has a 180. So that's kind of why they're opposing. They're busy DCCA. And so maybe there should be more from Attorney General.

So I'm not sure. But, this is the reason we need I would like to be on this Committee, if not me, a public different public advocate because the tow company is going to have a representative. And so if a private industry like a tow company is going to be on this committee, then I think we should need a public advocate. Somebody has been towed. I've been towed from the Ala Wai Boat Harbor.

Other people have been towed and understand the stress that, and expense of being towed. So I would like to ask for an SD 1 that that one of the people on the committee be a consumer advocate. It could be even someone from parks and rec, I guess. This is to ensure the policies are fair, transparent, and apply consistency statewide consistently. It is important that the bill be amended to include a public advocate.

So we hope that you will vote yes on this. We hope that you will help this go through WAM because, we really need it to be read there as well. And, we need to reduce the confusion and increase public trust. And this kind of level of accountability and transparency needs to be statewide. And we really thank you for this opportunity to look at this bill.

9,000 people were towed from the Ala Wai Boat Harbor in the last four years, and only 34 parking tickets were given. So we, we really owe it to the public to look at what's leading to the these tows. Thank you very much.

When this measure was heard in the house, did you also testify at that time?

I testified at every hearing. And we've gotten a lot of public testimony.

But there weren't any changes to the.

Yes. There was a SD one.

No, but they didn't add you for an advocate?

They didn't because no. I think, they didn't. They asked me during the hearing what what I wanted. Or, you know, what what we asked actually for four things. But they asked and then we talked about it, but they haven't talked amongst themselves about it yet.

Okay. Alright. Thanks, Katie. Thank you so much.

And I'm available for questions. Thank you.

Testifying for free access coalition, John and Rita Shockley. And these, names, are all in support. Margaret Callahan, Douglas Miller, Johnny May Perry, Patricia Blair, Christine Chung, Kathleen Lima, Arlene Velasco, and Donna Ching. We did receive comments from Louis Erteschik. Anyone here wishes to speak on HB 2375?

We'll continue then on to HB 2023. This is relating to transportation, and this requires DOT to administer a statewide program for certification of active intelligence speed assistance systems and select a vendor for the installation and maintenance of systems, limits the civil liability of motor vehicle manufacturers, distributors, and retailers for active intelligent speed assistance systems and make circumventing or tampering with an active intelligence speed assistance system a misdemeanor, and it allows judiciary to impose the installation of active intelligence speed assistance systems as an additional penalty and as part of a license suspension or revocation for repeat offenders of certain traffic violations. This is an interesting measure. Yes. Office of the Public Defender.

Alright. DOT.

Right. Robin with DOT, stand by your submitted testimony in support.

Thank you. And I'm sorry. I did previously saw in the earlier measure that we did receive comments from DOT in writing. City and County of Honolulu, Department of Customer Services sends comments. Tiffany Yajima.

Sure, we submit our written testimony, thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Smart Start LLC in support. We will have, let's see, MAD testifying in support, AAA, Bicycling League, the law office of Georgette Yandle in support, MAD Mothers Against Drunk Driving, Highway and Auto Safety Advocates, in support. And we have Amy Colhan, Chad Taniguchi, Jonathan Hong, Johnny Mae Perry, attorney general. And we do have sending comments, auto dealers, Melissa Pavlichek comments, as well as I guess the judiciary Jessica Orr and Attorney General's office with comments. Okay, HGEA. Good afternoon, Nui.

Senator, we submitted testimony on this measure. We submitted testimony on 2031.

Oh, okay.

Oh, sorry. Sorry. Oh, okay then. Yeah. Okay. I was a little ahead. Okay. Sorry about that. Okay. Actually I ended with that. Okay. All right. Is there anyone else wishes to speak on HB 2023? All right. Hearing none, let's proceed with the last item on the Committee on Transportation Agenda, and it's HB 2031.

This is relating to transportation. This establishes the administrative hearings division within DOT and transfers certain administrative hearing powers to the division, including matters related to transportation network company permit appeals, automated rate, light camera and speed enforcement traffic citations, commercial driver's license appeals. It allows authorized employees of the Department of Law Enforcement to review images produced by the automated red light camera and speed enforcement.

Okay. Okay. Judiciary.

Good afternoon. My name is Jessica Orr on behalf of the judiciary. You have a written testimony. We'll stand on our testimony. Thank you.

Thank you. Jessica, if you can continue to be on until we proceed with the rest of the testifiers in case there's questions. Appreciate that. Okay. DOT.

Robin, with DOT, stand by or submitted testimony in support.

Thank you. Attorney General's office. Thank you. Thank you for your patience. You were here from the beginning, and you went through all of what we heard today.

Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Deputy Attorney General, Marjorie Lau'. Our department has submitted written testimony providing comments on the bill. I'll just point out a few items.

The first is that we recommend reinserting provisions providing for Chapter 91 administrative hearings for violations under the photo red light imaging detector systems program and the automated speed enforcement systems program. It appears that those, provisions were inadvertently left out of house draft two. They were in the previous draft. So we would recommend reinserting them.

Next, while we take no position as to whether the appeal process from the Chapter 91 hearing be conducted by the district courts or the circuit courts, we do recommend that the appeal process be consistent with the judicial review process as set forth under Chapter 91. And last, we recommend that the we recommend provisions to allow the Department of Transportation to set fines for violations under each of those two programs within the existing parameters under the state traffic code. I'm available for questions. Thank you for that opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Thank you for being available. Okay. HDA. Thank you.

Hello chair, vice sheriff, members. Kauanui Sabas, legislative manager for HGEA. We submitted testimony in opposition to this measure. And while we don't have any objections to the establishment of the administrative hearings division, our opposition is solely limited to the language that would allow the director or the director of transportation to appoint a hearing officer or officers to be exempt from Chapter 76. We do request an amendment on page four line line 19 to delete the word not.

And we also request one more amendment on page four line 18 to change the word appoint to hire. Available to answer any questions. Thank you.

Okay. And there's no hearing officers in in this division present day?

Presently, no, senator. But there are hearing officers, I believe, in other other departments, so that are civil service.

Okay. Alright. Thank you. Questions? Anyone? Okay. Thanks, Kauanui. Okay. Is there anyone else wishes to speak on this measure? Yes. Kate, please.

Chair, vice chair, and members of the committee, thank you for letting me testify on this. I think that, the red light activity, is important. And I would also like to add license plate recognition. The Board of Land and Natural Resources has approved a license plate recognition car, and there will be no citations. The cars will be towed if they expire meter if they're under expired meter.

So, there may be one rent warning, but, anyway, it's important that, hearings be consistent. So currently, post hearings are done within they have to complain within five days, but everywhere else in the state is 21 days. So I think the time a person has to appeal should be consistent and also that license plate reading should come under this hearing as well. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Johnny May Perry also sends in communication in support. Is there anyone wishes to speak to HB 2031? Okay. Hearing none members. Any questions? Senator Elefante.

Question for Deputy Director Shishido, DOT. Hello there again. So with the intention for this one position for the hearing officer is I know you're requesting it to be exempt, but you heard some testimony from HGA, regarding exempt positions. Is DOT's intent to convert this to civil down the road?

Yeah. Most likely. I mean, with the exempt position, we can get, you know, quickly establish, fill the position, and then and, you know future legislation, then we can make it a civil servant.

Okay. And then as a follow-up to that, is this was this in your budget request?

I don't think we had that specific exempt position, but from savings from others, that's how we would fund it initially.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, madam chair.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Okay. Thank you. Any further questions, members? Okay. We'll go into decision-making then on the agenda before the committee and we'll take a short recess. [Recess].

All right. Good afternoon. The Committee on Transportation is going into decision-making on its agenda of March 17th. We'll proceed, members, with HB 1510, and this is relating to the license plates. Chair's recommendation is to make recommendations from the Judiciary that the effective date be set to no earlier than January 1st, 2017, and they do need the additional time that is critical to ensure proper implementation. Oh. 2027. Okay. Sorry. I will make that correction.

It's early. They said no earlier than January 1st, 2027. And due to their concerns, and they want to ensure proper implementation by the courts which would include updates to the Judiciary Information Management System or the JIMS that we know of, and to the traffic payment system adjustments of operational resources to account for the possible increase to the Traffic Court calendar--and I think that's it for now--DOT does continue their support for this measure. So any discussions? Hearing none, Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes aye with amendments.

Okay. Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 1510 House Draft 2 with amendments. Chair and Vice Chair vote aye. [Roll call]. Madam Chair, your recommendation's adopted.

Okay. Thank you. With this measure-- is this the one I just--

1523.

Yeah, I know. On HB 1523, relating to the Traffic Code, Chair's recommendation that there are serious concerns that have been raised in discussions with regards to the countdown timers, and I think right now, because of the concerns raised, it would cause chaos if we do change-- make changes to a system that everyone feels that they're inclined to believe that they're safe in the crosswalks.

However, I think I'd like to move this measure on to Judiciary and raise concerns that we have with regards to-- on the committee report, and on the committee report so states the concerns that the committee has had with regards to making the changes at this point in time, confusions as well, and, members, anything else you can think of to make sure that we have on the committee report? Otherwise, let's see. We would-- what's the defective date on this? We can defect the date.

It's defective already.

It's defective already. Okay. So, let's see. Are we passing this measure as is with the committee report?

We can do that.

We can do that, yeah? However, we do recommend that, seriously, the Judiciary Committee, as it hears this measure once it leaves this hearing that there are grave concerns with regards to this measure. All right. Chair's recommendation then is to pass HB 1523 House Draft One as is and with itemized comments of concerns into the committee report. Any discussion or discussions? Hearing none, Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes aye.

Okay. Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 1523 HD 1 unamended. Of the five members present, any no votes or votes or reservations? Hearing none, Madam Chair, your recommendation's adopted.

Thank you. HB 1696, relating to commercial driver's licenses. We'll continue with this measure. Chair's recommendation is to pass as is, and for your information, members, our SB 2896 is still moving in the House as well, so this will be good, interesting discussions hopefully during conference as well. Chair's recommendation is then to pass HB 1696 House Draft 2 as is. Any discussions? Hearing none, Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes aye.

Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 1696 House Draft 2 unamended. Of the five members present, any no votes or votes or reservations? Hearing none, Madam Chair, your recommendation's adopted.

Okay. HB 2020--and this is relating to renewal of driver's licenses--Chair's recommendation is to pass this measure as is as well. Any discussions? Hearing none, Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes aye.

Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 2020 House Draft 2 unamended. Of the five members present, any no votes or votes or reservations? Hearing none, Madam Chair, your recommendation's adopted.

Okay. Thank you. On HB 2417, relating to administrative license revocation, Chair's recommendation is to pass this with amendments just for technical and non-substantive amendments. Any discussions? Related matter with regards to our Senate version of SB 3182 has not been heard in the second committee so our recommendation is to continue to move this measure forward. Okay. Chair's recommendation then to HB 2417 House Draft 2 is to pass with amendments, recognizing technical non-substantive amendments. Okay. Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes aye.

Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 2417 House Draft 2 with amendments. Of the five members present, any no votes or votes or reservations? Hearing none, Madam Chair, your recommendation's adopted.

Okay. Thank you. On to HB 2375, and this is the towing practices, and this is the Public Parking Facilities Working Group. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. I'd like to recommend the amendments request by the Disability and Community Access Board.

They support the amendments if they could be added a member of the working group and that the executive director of that board or the executive director's designee of the mentioned in that capacity. And Chair's recommendation on the-- and I find that this pretty much is a working group that's going to be responsible for public parking facilities, and it's not only for the County Of Hawaii--I mean, City and County of Honolulu--but this is a statewide measure.

And I would suggest-- and I think we've kinda recommended coming from the public to sit on this board that for each county that an added advocate for this be added. And I would suggest that a--let's see. Who's going to be responsible? DOT, actually, adds to the recommendation to fill the position for a public member to sit on this measure for each island. Okay? And let's see. I think that's it for the amendments. Okay. Any discussions? Hearing none, Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes aye.

Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 2375 House Draft 2 with amendments. Of the five members present, any no votes or votes or reservations? Hearing none, Madam Chair, your recommendation's adopted.

Okay, HB2023 relating to transportation. Chair's recommendation is to pass this measure, as is, and thanks to the comments and, recommendations from the, of, let's see, city and county of Honolulu, consume customer services and those made, by, with the support of Sanjay, as well as the, prosecuting attorney, city and county of Honolulu, in support as well. So Chair's recommendation is to pass this measure as is any discussions hearing none. Just to add that we did have a measure, SB2696 that has failed to advance so necessary that we keep this measure alive is to pass as is. Okay.

Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes, aye.

Chair's recommendation is to pass HB2023 House Draft Two unamended of the five members present. Any no votes or vote to reservations? Seeing none, Madam Chair, recommendations adopted.

Okay. On HB2031, Chair's recommendation is to pass this measure, I would say with amendments and I would, like to, amend the recommendations, with this measure, from the Attorney General's office, as well as the, HGEA, on just a portion of the request for amendments, to this measure with regards to the hiring, of, positions, as well as, to ensure that the hearing officers, will con will be on the new hires, civil service positions. Okay. With that, chair's recommendation to pass HB2031 House Draft Two with amendments. Okay.

Any discussions? Hearing none, vice chair for the vote. Chair goes aye.

Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 2031 House Draft Two with amendments of the five members present. Any no votes or votes or reservations? Hearing none, Madam Chair, recommendations adopted.

Okay. Thank you folks. This and this concludes the Committee on Transportation on the March 17 agenda. Aloha. Thanks Members.