Senate Standing Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs

Thank you for joining us for this joint committees with the Committee on Energy Intergovernmental Affairs and our good friends from the Committee on Safe Public Safety and Military Affairs on this Tuesday, March 31 at 03:00 in the afternoon in Room 224. This hearing is being streamed live on YouTube. If we have any kind of catastrophic, technical difficulties, thank goodness we have lifeguards at EMS here. We will rehab and put public notice out as to when we will reconvene.

We ask that those who are testifying, limit your testimony to two minutes.

We have six measures on this agenda. The first two being SCR 56 and SR 54, recognizing open water life card cards as first responders and acknowledgment of their essential role in emergency response, public safety, and community well-being throughout the state. We have a number of individuals, indicating their desire to testify on this measure. If you don't mind, I'm gonna take the in person folks first and then transfer over to the folks that have indicated they wanna join us via Zoom.

For in person, we have Kirsten Hermstead, Hawaii Water Safety Coalition.

Aloha, chairs and members of the committee. My name is Kirsten Hermstead. I am the executive director of the Hawaiian Lifeguard Association and the coordinator for the Hawaii Water Safety Coalition. I did submit testimony, which you've seen, and I will stand on that testimony in strong support of this resolution, and I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. Thank you.

Thank you for joining us, Tristan. David Viera?

Hello, everybody, chair, members of this committee. My name is David Kalani Viera. I am the operation chief of the Kauai Ocean Safety Bureau. I'm also the president of the Hawaiian Lifeguard Association. I've been in community service and a lifeguard for over thirty years.

Over these decades, I've responded to countless emergencies, drowning, spinal injuries, and cardiac arrest. In those moments, we are not waiting for first responders. We are the first responders. We're often first on the scene, providing critical medical care before earth before agencies like EMS, fire, and police arise. In the ocean is a big part of who we are as people of Hawaii, but is also powerful and unforgiving.

Every second matters, and the actions taken in those few minutes can mean the difference between life and death. Despite the responsibilities we carry, lifeguards are still not formally recognized as first responders. After thirty years on the front lines, I can tell you clearly that recognition is long overdue. This is about protecting our communities, our Keiki, and the millions of visitors coming to our shores. It is about ensuring lifeguards have the proper support, proper training, and the respect that matches the work that we already do.

I respectfully urge you to support this measure. Thank you.

Thank you, mister Viera, and for your service. William Pichot, lifeguard from Marine Corps Civilian Services Safety. Member says to submit testimony in support. Allison Schiefers.

Aloha. Thank you for this opportunity to testify on these very important measures. My name is Allison Schaeffers, and I strongly support these measures, recognizing open water lifeguards as Lifeguard Association, and the writer of the Hawaii Water Safety Plan. Leasing my child to drowning changed my life.

Since then, I have walked alongside many families who have lost loved ones to ocean and other open water drownings, and I have seen firsthand both the life and death stakes of ocean safety and the lasting toll these tragedies takes on families and first responders.

Over the last several weeks of the Kona Low storms, we've seen countless examples of how open water lifeguards protect residents and visitors in some of the most hazardous conditions in our state. Honolulu Ocean Safety used their jet skis to rescue North Shore residents and visitors trapped by the recent flooding.

That example plays out throughout the year where open water lifeguards are often first on the scene responding not only to rescues, but to cardiac arrests, traumatic injuries, and vehicle collisions, working shoulder to shoulder with police, fire, and EMS. They are highly trained, assume personal risk, and provide medical care that clearly meets the definition of a first responder. Formal recognition would honor the lifesaving work that they do, support their well-being, encourage a movement toward equal pay for equal work, and strengthen Hawaii's public safety system.

These resolutions affirm drowning as a preventable public health crisis, advance equity, reduce long term costs, and save lives. Legislative support is essential. Mahalo for your leadership.

Thank you, Allison. Keo Morocco has submitted testimony in support. I'm gonna transition to the folks on Zoom. We have, Pahukula Kalii from the Hawaii Fire Department Ocean Safety might be joining us via Zoom.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

How about, individual from the Hawaii Lifeguard Association?

Also not present on Zoom, chair.

Okay. Rosemarie Johnson from Hawaii Search and Rescue Alliance?

Also not present on Zoom, chair.

K.

Rachel Abel. Is Rachel on Zoom?

Also not present on Zoom, chair.

Okay. And the last person, Lauren Pihana Dort. Got the individual on Zoom? Oh, yay.

Aloha. My name is Nathan. I'm 13 years old. I only support SCR 56 and SR 54. I have been going to junior guards for two years.

Last year, I did it for the whole summer. Now I even wanna become one when I'm older. I believe that it is outrageous that they are not called first responders, even though they're the first ones to respond. Going back to the fact that at junior guards, they teach you to be the first responders on land and sea and, or, and to not be called that. Ouch.

That is an insult. Please pass SCR 56 and SR 54 for my uncles and auntie and not just for my gen my me, but my generation. Thank you.

Thank you, Lauren. Appreciate your commentary. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on these two resolutions? Yes. Welcome.

Aloha, chair, vice chair, and committee members. My name is Kurt Lager. I'm the chief of the Honolulu Ocean Safety Department. Our department, I believe, submitted some written testimony, and I stand in strong support of this resolution. I will add that Ocean Safety and the lifeguards, we are as this fine gentleman just said, we are generally the first on scene.

We are part of the 911 system. We're responding with our our, partners in EMS, fire, and police. And, they're the professional working men and women of of this department of this, profession deserve this type of recognition. I'm happy to answer any other questions. Thank you.

Thank you for joining us, Kirk. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on these two resolutions? Yes.

Aloha, chair, vice chair, members of Kumi. My name is Jimmy Barrows. I am the deputy chief of the Honolulu Ocean Safety Department. As chief Lager said, the department has submitted testimony in support of this measure, and we are happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you for joining us, mister Barrows.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Yes.

Aloha. My name is Aubrey Jones Owens, and I am an ocean safety lifeguard here in Hawaii. Everyday lifeguards respond to life threatening emergencies in the ocean. We often are the first one on the scenes for the drownings, the spinal injuries, cardiac arrest, and traumatic incidents in some of the most dangerous environments imaginable. Yet, despite the reality of this work, lifeguards are not formally recognized as first responders.

The lack of reconciliation has real consequences. First responders' status helps provide specialized training and critical support services, including therapies and resources designed to address PTSD and cumulative trauma experiences that we experience on the job. Studies have shown that more than half the lifeguards have been involved in a critical incident during their careers, yet almost no research on the psychological impacts of those events. Meanwhile, PTSD rates among first responders such as firefighters and EMS can reach nearly twenty percent.

Lifeguards face some of the most traumatic situations, but often fail into a gap that is not supported or recognized.

Because of this gap in research, we are often known as the forgotten first responders. This resolution helps close that gap. Recognizing ocean safety lifeguards as first responders acknowledges the reality of the work that we do helps us to ensure that we have training, resources, and support needed both before and after traumatic events. Mahalo for your time today and supporting lifeguards who protect our community and our visitors every day.

Thank you, Audrey. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on these two resolutions? Members, any questions?

She don't know if I ask questions too. No. I think I don't know if it was a first responders. Thank you. Thank you, Senator.

I'm gonna try and help make sure that they are the the Anyone else wishing to ask questions? Yes, Senator.

I guess for chief Lager, the department has been established under I mean, was established as a separate department within the, Honolulu system. Has there been discussion, within the administration or at the city council as to the necessary changes that should should have accompanied the establishment of your department, you know, as a separate entity? Because it would seem that by establishing the, department, it was a recognition that you are really first responders.

Yeah. I I think thank you for that question. I believe by coming our own department, we got to have the authority and recognition as our own department. To to his point, we most of our lifeguards did not know that we were not considered first responders either. I'd be surprised if I think our administration within the city and county of Honolulu would also be surprised, that at the state level and federal level that we would not be recognized as first responders.

So I guess, what would be the sort of next steps? Would we need to change your collective bargaining status, or would we need to change statutory, you know, requirements? Because I think everyone recognizes that your services are essentially first responder services. So, you know, just so we can understand what steps need to be taken.

Yeah. Thank you. I I'm not exactly sure on the right steps right now, so I don't wanna take any guesses. But

Okay. Try again. Well, I guess this is step one. Yeah. I'm gonna defer to, Senator Wakai who introduced the resolution because definitely it would seem that that's the logical, you know, progression that, you can't really have a group not be included, you know, within that designation when the services are so critical.

Thank you.

Yeah. Sure. Yes. Follow-up. Yeah.

So I guess I guess this this would be helping to with, as we have the recognition as first responders who changed even though, I guess, the retirement here and allow, tire early, like, police and fire. I guess that's basically, you know, not only the recognition, but to have the ability to do almost the same as the other first responders that responding to emergencies and being part of that.

Yeah. I think that's correct. And I think it also opens up other opportunities such as funding opportunities and training opportunities when there's certain qualifications that requires that first responder, designation.

Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Sure. Members, any further questions? If not, I'm gonna hand over the gavel to my illustrious co chair, Senator Fukunaga.

K. Thank you. Next, we have Senate concurrent Resolution 25 and Senate Resolution 22. This resolution opposes condemnation or threats of condemnation by the Federal Government to take control of Pohakalua and any state land. And with us this afternoon is Office of Hawaiian Affairs.

Thank you. For joining us. Yes.

Aloha, Iniloba Boren with the office of Hawaiian affairs. OHA stands on our written testimony in support of scr 25 sr 22. Pohakuloa is a wahi pana of profound historical, cultural, and genealogical significance to native Hawaiians. And in addition to its cultural importance, Pohakuloa is an ecologically sensitive landscape that serves as habitat for various endemic species. And OHA is deeply concerned by any suggestion that condemnation may be used by the Federal Government to circumvent existing legal obligations.

OHA has maintained that decisions regarding the future of Pohakuloa and all other lands leased to the Federal Government and military must include a robust, transparent, and meaningful consultation process with native Hawaiians. Condemnation would be a rejection of the duty to meaningfully consult with native Hawaiians and circumvent the state's separate legal processes to ensure accountability, public transparency, and cultural due diligence when dealing with public lands. Mahalo.

Thank you. We also have James J Kalei Mama Pu, Crowningburg, Mayo Ho. Is he here this afternoon? K. If not, we have also received, 14 testimonies in support of this resolution.

Is there a pair of resolutions? Is there anyone else who would like to comment on Senate concurrent Resolution 25 and Senate Resolution 22. K. Members, any questions for the testifiers? K.

If not, we will turn to

I'm sorry. Can you hear what? Okay. Looking for the uniform, but I guess I don't see the Navy here or whoever's supposed to be with the land. Army or whoever.

National Guard or whoever those guys. Anyway, the re the reason why I'm glad you guys are supporting this. Yeah. It's it's long overdue. But, again, are you guys working with them or even advising them on their, I guess, their overreach as government entities to obtain the land?

Because, you know, when no. Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry.

So, in the National Defense Authorization Act, that was passed by Congress, OHA is named as one

of the native Hawaiian organizations that the Federal Government, which includes the military, has to consult with, in regards to this issue. And we do also as well have a position on the governor's advisory committee. So we do have both at the state level as part of the advisory committee and also at the federal level, we've been recognized as the entity with which they should be discussing this issue with.

So being a part of the governor's advisory board, that the governor is favorable of walking the law, of operations, what is your guys' advice when you have forward with the governor?

So I'm not privy to those conversations that but I do know that we are working just to make sure that our position that needs to go through the legal process that already exists, which is through the DLNR and the

BLNR, and that that process needs

to be upheld because that is state law. That's our position, and so we're continuing to to advance that.

So it's at the DLNR meeting that I was at sorry, mister chair. At the DLNR meeting that I was at, the EIS was rejected Yes. Because of no numerous violations and ongoing violations. So, again, having this information, not not so much you, but You guys as the advisory board to the governor. Is the governor preview or even looking at this EIS, knowing that the numerous of violations and and health risk that is happening over there at POCAJO?

Yeah. I'm not sure if the governor has been has been reading it, but I I would hope so.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

Thank you. Any further questions? Senator DeCoite?

They're not. Milenaar

is not present.

They're not here. Oh, okay. That's it. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

Would you guys would have been the one to come together?

Turning next to Senate concurrent Resolution 79 and Senate Resolution 81, encouraging the US Navy to take responsibility for the eradication of octocoral and other invasive species from the waters of Pearl Harbor, including Westlock, Middlelock, and Eastlock. And for Department of Land and Natural Resources, we have Charles Taylor. Welcome.

Aloha chairs, committee members, and Charlie Taylor on behalf of DLNR's Division of Aquatic Resources. We stand on our written testimony in support and are available for any questions.

Great. Thank you very much. We also have received written testimonies from the Hawaii Military Affairs Council and Frederick Smith. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this care of resolutions? If not, Senator DeCoite, could you have any questions for any for DLNR?

Okay.

I I got a quick question, DLNR.

Senator Fevella.

So it's it's other people. I'm just looking at the senators that introduced this, and I my community thanks them because my community is being contaminated. For the contamination of that reef going on to my community of Peoria Beach Park, Everything is dying. And I said this in numerous of hearings, but I never have anything to create to make a resolution.

So how how much of this resolution that you guys are gonna if this thing passes, how much of this resolution that you guys are gonna have more of not, I guess, oversight, but more of an intent of having them actually come up with a plan to do this thing that was done should have been done decades ago.

So The leaking of the oil and all that stuff.

In terms of that, I can't unfortunately speak to that. It really can only speak to this particularly invasive species, right, that's coming out. And

But part of the invasive species that is being created is because of the contamination from Pearl Harbor's so called New Zealandia they have over there. And I understand the historicalness of that. But, again, invasive species, if you look at what was causing of invasive species, it's not just climate change and sea level rise and all other stuff.

It's because of what happening over there on what's taming in the ocean that is contaminating it to causing these invasive species to grow and is organisms that wasn't there prior to that. So a lot of people don't know the original name of that area was called Pearl Lagoon before they made it to a harbor It was very, very much abundantly of oysters and everything you could eat from the ocean.

And now nothing. You cannot have crab, nothing fish, anything because they have don't catch this because you won't get hepatitis. Yeah. So, again, I mean, I understand you guys here for the invasive species. But did you guys anybody go out there and actually test the invasive species of what's causing these organisms that is going and killing our reef out there right now in every beach area the every beach area?

So, unfortunately, I can't speak specifically to that. Like, in Pearl Harbor, we have pretty limited access to actually get in there and do tests or do things like that. So and I'm agree with you about the multiple different types of invasive species that could have been enabled by this, you know, decades of neglect or whatever you wanna call it. I know for this particular species, we strongly think that it was an intentional introduction by an aquarium.

Not bad intent, but, you know, trying to save their coral Coral.

Their coral. And I do have some experience with this coral. My first job in high school, I used to scrub tanks at a mom and pop fish store, and there's always this joke about, you know, we'll always sell this one coral to people because no one can kill it, and it was this kind. These go by a trade name called zinnias. They're very, very I mean, they're really hardy.

They're tough to kill. So once it gets in, like, right now, it's, I'm not gonna say it's dire. It's not impossible to get rid of these, but they're really tough, because they can get in nooks and crannies, etcetera. But to your earlier point about other invasives, and particularly, I I can't really speak to the I don't wanna, you know Yeah. Yeah.

Say the wrong thing right now. I'm not sure.

I just wanted to see you here. I mean, I know you guys kinda get into Pearl Harbor, and that's something that later on, I guess, as as center that we gotta push along because but the community is suffering in that area, especially your point, that area with with what you're seeing with the one that is growing now Off the reef and whatnot. So I appreciate my colleagues for coming on this.

Yeah. And that's, again, why we support it is we, of course, will support any sort of resolution to encourage them to take any extra steps, because we're we're kind of limited. So Yes. We we also appreciate this resolution

as well. Thank you, Chair. Appreciate you. Senator Richards

Don't run off. Since you said you had some experience

this biological control, what are we looking at? And I can't imagine we're the only place. So are there success stories out there as Senator Senator Fevella was talking about as we start to push in a direction. Do you have any thoughts on that? Sure.

with

And let me just clarify. I I don't have experience with eradicating it. I know that I've had experience growing it and because it's so easy to grow. In terms of eradication methods, it's a little more difficult. I believe what they're trying to do generally is there's a smothering technique.

And by smothering, what I mean is you generally you can, you know, put tarps over it and you prevent sunlight and prevent it from getting nutrients, which is a a a decent way to go at it. But the problem is is that you can't get everyone. Right? They get in these little nooks and crannies. And, we're already seeing it coming out of Pearl Harbor now, like, because we can we can, survey areas right outside of the base.

And, with cooperation from from the from the navy for the military, they're kind of assisting us with surveys just outside the base, and we're finding it there. So it is spreading. It's very difficult. I kind of think of it like I heard this analogy once. It's like if you get a can of glitter and, you know, dump it into a pool.

Right? If you can get that the glitter, like, if you can get within about a minute or two, you can scoop up a lot of it. But even then, you're still there's gonna be little bits of glitter. And if you wait a, you know, a day, it's almost impossible.

So this is a really difficult and we're we're dealing with this in Kaneohe Bay with a separate anemone as well that we're trying we think we have a good chance to get this one before it spreads, but these are really difficult.

Yeah. So in turn to get back to your actual question about eradication methods, there are also methods, using, I think, chlorine treatment. You can, you can smother things, and this is actually it's a really safe way to do it. You can chlorinate the area under the tarpon, neutralize the chlorine before it's released. There are things like that and ways to apply it individually to polyps.

It's very time consuming and, you know, it involves a lot of

labor. Okay.

Yeah. Alright. Thank you. I don't mean to Jerk.

No. No.

Just give an idea.

No. No.

Okay. Senator

Just a quick question. So so if the Navy doesn't take responsibility, who should be responsible for this?

Who should be responsible for it? If it's not the navy I mean, if we can't get in there, then I don't really have an answer to that. I don't know who should really take her if we can't do it and they're the only ones who, you know, then I don't I don't know if anyone from the state could take responsibility for that. I'm not sure. So I I mean, it falls on all of us if it gets out.

Yeah. But it should fall on the corporate rate. Would you think money money would you think a money compensation for a state department to then initiate taking care of it?

I can't speak for the department. That sounds like an interesting idea. I mean, I think that's something we would What

would it cost you to to handle it?

That's a good question. And I again, I can't

But you can get back to us because I know I know we gotta yeah. If you can get him back to chair.

Yeah. Because it would be a comprehensive effort and it could take years. So I'm not exactly sure. But yeah, it would Thank you.

Sure. Thank you, chair. Okay. Any further questions? Okay.

If not, let's thank you very much. Let's turn to Senate concurrent resolution 179 and Senate resolution 174, urging the county of Maui to enforce the provisions of the fire code of the county of Maui relating to fire hazards, brush currents, fuel breaks, roadside vegetation clearing, and emergency access. Testifying on behalf of Aloha Independent Living Hawaii, They've submitted written testimony and support. Is there anyone else here who would like to testify on this pair of resolutions?

If not, members will turn to the next pair of resolutions, Senate concurrent resolution 181, Senate resolution 176, urging the county of Maui to adopt ordinances that establish wild land urban interface safety standards for plantation towns and other high risk communities, taking into account the County Of Kauai's ordinance number PM 2,025,425 relating to the plantation camp district wildfire and wildland urban interface and other state and national Wildland Urban Interface best practices.

We have received written testimony from Aloha Independent Living Hawaii. Is there anyone else here who would like to testify on this pair of resolutions? Okay. If not, let us turn to this last pair of resolutions. Senate Concurrent Resolution 182, Senate resolution 177, requesting the governor and the Department of Health to engage with the United States Department of Defense and other federal and military partners to establish to explore establishing a military civilian trauma partnership to strengthen the Hawaii trauma system.

And on this one, we do have written testimony from Department of Health. Is there anyone here from Department of Health? If not, that brings us to the end of the written testimonies. Since we do not really have people that we can ask questions of, chair would like to call for a recess.

Thank you for your patience. We are reconvening our joint committee on the committee on energy and intergovernmental affairs and our friends from the committee on public safety and military affairs. For the resolutions that are in front of us, the two chairs have conferred on the and for the first pair, SCR 56 and SR 54, I think we all recognize the critical role that lifeguards play and would like to elevate their stature in government. So the two chairs have conferred.

I would like to pass these two resolutions out as they are written.

Any discussion? If not, my new vice chair, Senator Fevella, can you take the moment? Oh, sorry.

sure. Yeah.

Okay. You

It's your moment.

This might get dangerous.

Okay. Alright.

So I I vote yes.

Okay. Sheriff, what is John?

Your separate business. Carbon coming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sorry. Sorry. Oh, okay.

Are you sure?

Sure. Trust this with you.

So you can do the rest. Okay. Okay. Chair.

I don't like that. Yes.

Aye.

Vice chair Chang. Aye. Okay. Member DeCoite?

Okay. Senator Richards. Sorry. Senator DeCoite. Senator Richards?

Senator Figuero? Aye.

Aye.

Okay. Motion passes.

Good job.

Okay. For public safety committee, seeing recommendation of passing unamended vice chair Lee for the vote.

Voting on aCR 56 and SR 54, the recommendations to pass unamended. Chair and vice chair vote aye. Senator Hashimoto? Aye. Senator Inouye excused.

Senator DeCorte?

Aye.

Chair, the recommendation's adopted.

Thank you. On the next let's see. Five pairs of resolutions, noting that we did receive supportive testimony on all of them. Chair would like to recommend that we pass each of these pairs. Senate concurrent Resolution 25 and Senate Resolution 22, Senate concurrent Resolution 79 and Senate Resolution 81, Senate concurrent Resolution 179 and Senate resolution 174 Senate Concurrent Resolution 181 and Senate resolution 176 Senate Concurrent Resolution 182 and Senate resolution 177.

In an unamended form, noting our deadlines today and chair, would like to know any questions, comments? If not, vice chair Lee for the vote on the remaining five pairs of resolutions.

Voting on SCR 25 and SR 22, SCR 79 and SR 81, SCR 179 and SR 174, SCR 181, SR 176, SCR 182, and SR 177, all unamended. Noting all members present with the exception of Senator Inouye, excused. Are there any reservations or no? Hearing none, recommendations are adopted.

For EIG, same recommendation for these 10 resolutions. Any discussion? If not, Senator Chang, I vote yes.

K. For EIG, with all members present, are there any objections or reservations? Seeing none, the recommendation is adopted.

K. Thank you. We are adjourned.

Adjourned.