Senate Standing Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs

Hey. It's officially almost 3 o'. Clock. We are on our 301 agenda for the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs. This hearing is being streamed live on YouTube. If there's any technical difficulties, we will post a notice as to when we will reconvene. We ask those who are testifying to please limit their testimony to one minute. We have two items on this agenda.

That is first up is Senate Bill 2671 for the essential permitting positions on our testifiers list, we have Mary Alice Evans or someone from the Office of Planning. Remember she has submitted commentary. We have Ann Lopez or someone from the AG's office that might be joining us via Zoom. Or it might be in person. Even better.

Good afternoon, Chair, Members of the Committee, Deputy Attorney General Jonathan Tungpalan for the Department of the Attorney General. We stand under written comments and are available for any questions, if there are any. Thank you.

Is there anyone else wishing to testify on 2671? If not Members, Any questions for John? Okay, Lucky John. We're going to move on to the second and last item on this agenda. That is Senate Bill 2902 relating to renewable energy. On our testifiers list, we have Michelangelo or someone from DCCA's consumer.

Vice Chair. Members, Mickey Knox for the Division of Consumer Advocacy. We'll stand our written testimony, but I just wanted to highlight our main concern is just the safety it's addressed. Available for any questions.

Thank you, Mr. Knox. Leah Laramee from Climate Change Mitigation Adaptation Commission.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Leah Laramee with the Climate Change Mitigation Adaptation Commission. We stand on our testimony and support and available questions. Mahalo.

Okay. Thank you, Laramee. John Itamura or someone from the UC.

Aloha. Chair Wukai, Vice Chair Chang and Members of the Senate Committee on Energy Intercompartment Affairs. My name is Andrew Okabe. I'm a utility analyst of the Public Utilities Commission. I'm here on behalf of Cherry Itamura and the Commission. I sign the Commission's written testimony offering comment supporting the intent of SB 2902. I'm available for any questions.

Committee mayhow. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Okabe. On Zoom, we might have Beth Amaro from Kauai, KIUC.

Yes. Hi. Aloha. Good afternoon. Beth Amaro from KIUC. We've provided comments on this measure. We stand on our testimony and I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. Thank you.

Thank you for joining us, Beth. Also, Hannah Ellis from Bright Saver. Bright Saver might be joining us via Zoom. IT, is Hannah there?

She is here. Chair.

Oh, okay.

Hi everyone. Hi, Hannah. Good afternoon, Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Hannah Ellis and I'm representing BrightSaver, a nonprofit dedicated to building plug in Solar in the United States, making solar ownership affordable and accessible to everyone.

We stand with our written testimony and to strongly support SB 2902 to allow the people of Hawaii to access plug in Solar, saving money by reducing their electricity bills. This is a market driven solution requiring no tax credits or public funds. It's just cutting red tape.

System installed according to safety standards included in this Bill will not shock users, overload circuits or back feed during power outages. This is an equity issue. Plug in Solar provides meaningful access to renters and apartment residents who otherwise would not be able to access solar.

The technology ensures that access to clean energy is not limited by housing status. And in addition, plug in solar reduces electricity bills and improves energy resilience. This is especially relevant given residents of Hawaii have the highest energy costs in the country. While we enthusiastically support SB 2902, we recommend three important revisions.

One, amend the bill to ensure plug in solar is accessible across housing types, not just condominiums. Two, remove language that subjects the installation of plug in solar devices to condominium association board approval. And three, remove any requirement that customers register plug in solar devices with an electric utility or the Public Utility Commission.

We support SB2902 with these revisions and urge the Committee to to issue a favorable report on SP 2902. Thank you.

Thank you, Hannah. Also joining us via Zoom, Sherry Pollock from 350 Hawaii. Hi Sherry.

Aloha. Can you. Can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Okay, wonderful. Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, My name is Sherry Pollock and I'm with 350 Hawaii. We support this measure. We have some amendments. Our members are very, very anxious to see plug in solar systems allowed in our state. Electricity costs are high and costs are rising. These plug in solar systems are game changing.

This is about cutting energy costs and reducing emissions by updating our rules to match the realities of new, safe, proven technologies. We want to ensure unnecessary barriers are avoided so everyone can greatly benefit from them and has access to installing them.

For too long, the benefits of solar energy have been limited to homeowners with the capital to invest in rooftop projects. Plug in Solar reinvents this narrative, making a cheap, clean, a viable option for everyone. Something sorely needed to make electricity more affordable. 4 million households in Germany already Have Plug in solar systems.

Utah unanimously passed a bill last year approving them. These systems are low cost and they work for renters apartments homes with unsuitable roofs. So many struggling to pay their electric Bill could benefit from Plug in solar but outdated regulations are preventing this.

We strongly urge the Committee to consider our suggested amendments aimed at keeping plug in solar simple, accessible and affordable for consumers. It would be an enormous tragedy to limit these cost saving, pollution reducing benefits to just those living under condo associations. Our written testimony provides more details on this. Plug in solar is a wonderful solution.

Let's make sure everyone can take advantage of it. Bottom line, sustainability should not be privilege. Mahalo. Thanks so much for, for hearing this measure.

Thank you. Sherry. Is there anyone from Citizens Climate Lobby, Hawaii not available.

Unavailable on Zoom Chair.

Okay, how about David Munix?

Also unavailable on Zoom Chair.

Okay and Douglas Hagen has indicated he might be in the room. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on 2902? Okay, Members, any questions? I got a question for PLC Senator DeCoite. Thanks. Sure.

So I was reading the bill and you know, kind of curious that why. And of course Hannah talks so fast. I swear I heard something that I wanted. But she's a speed talker. But why should portable solar generators only be permitted in condominiums?

I. We didn't, Sorry to Senator DeCoite. We didn't say anything about whether it should be only permitted in condominiums. You know, this is not our bill, but we do have some amendments we do want to put in the bill. So.

So you would you consider like even for single family dwellings that I, I mean I know it's not your bill.

But I, I imagine, I imagine that if you had enough space in the yard or in front of your driveway, you could have these, you know, the portable solar units deployed there as well.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Chair.

Sure. You're welcome. Any other questions? Sure. Okabe, you can see that because I have a couple of follow up questions. Some of the folks who are testifying say that they don't want, they don't think that there should be a requirement for registration with the utility or the PUC.

Does that sound, is that a dangerous proposition or is that something that's acceptable to you?

Well, it could be an issue. We're not only thinking about safety issues. You know, when the grid goes down and the linemen have to work on the circuits that have these. If we were to somehow have this information about the number that are on that circuit, we could help prevent lineman injuries.

And on top of that there are other technical Aspects of this. This could eat into some of the existing hosting capacity on each of the circuits. You know, there's only a certain amount of load that can absorb other der on the system.

So if you take away that load, and I recognize that they'll claim this is kind of a conservation measure, just be clear that it could lead to other, you know, other customers not being able to install rooftop solar.

Okay. So just being aware of how everything's got to be balanced. I mean, if people just do any kind and plug in how many outlets to. Of solar into their. Their outlets, it could be disruptive to the other.

It could be disruptive. You know, we haven't done any of the studies. It would be helpful if we had did a docket on this and really kind of pushed that forward. But we're not suggesting that now here, because we understand the importance of this measure to the Committee and to the.

To the people that are pushing this measure as well. So if we had that ability, then sure, but, you know, at least consider our amendments.

Okay, got it. Thank you. Members, any further questions? Of course. I got a question for kiuc. Thanks. Chair. Yep. Beth, are you still there?

Yes. Hello. Hi. Hi. Hi, Beth. I had a question. I was reading your testimony and I noticed that you. You had highlighted, you know, some of the restrictions as well as. Regarding. Trying to understand the full interconnection agreement.

You know, what would be the impacts to somebody like you guys that have a cooperative if interconnection with portable generators. Were to hook up? And then what would be the responsibility on your. On the cooperative's part? Or do you have an understanding, I should say, of what that is?

Well, yeah, not really. We, I guess our concern, you know, if it's properly installed, it's a small enough size so that it's not impacting the meter or anything on the KIUC side of the meter, then it wouldn't be a problem. Although it would be, I think, helpful for everybody to know where the these are installed.

So it would be good to have some kind of a registry.

I think the concern might be that, you know, if they're not installed properly or if more than one device is installed, there could be negative impacts not just to the electrical circuitry of the home, but also could potentially impact the grid, you know, if it's not installed properly. So that's kind of the main concern.

And then, you know, it would be very even. Even with a registry, we couldn't guarantee that everybody would. Would tell us that they have one of these in their home. But it would be helpful to at least, you know, have that so that we're aware of the majority of them that are set up.

Yeah. Because I guess my curiosity more was like, so if I decided to put one in my home, would I. Would I need one insurance in case, like, I, I never hook them up correctly and I start on fire and then, I don't know, maybe it'll blow back to the utility, which.

Or, I mean, I, I get on solar system, but it just.

Yeah, that would be. I mean, it's, it's a possibility. And then you, if you're causing damage to, you know, outside of the home, maybe to neighboring homes, if, if, if there's an impact to the circuit that's feeding your neighborhood or your neighbors, you know, it could, it could impact other homes.

So, you know, it would seem as though if it's properly installed, it's of an appropriate size. That wouldn't happen. But again, we can't always, we can't always expect that everybody will. Will follow the guidelines. And that's the concern.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Chair.

Sure. You're welcome. Any further questions? Yep, of course. Senator Fevella.

So, you know, like, talking about the portable, some of these guys.

So is this question for Beth?

Yeah. Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah, so sorry, man.

For the, for the portable generators, some of these guys get inverters on their meters that they can plug in their gasoline, run generators for, run their home by installing these inverters onto their existing meter thing, wouldn't that be almost as similar to what they would do instead of using a gas generator, they would use a portable solar generator and hook it up the same way?

I, I think that would be very similar. And I think if it's done properly, you know, by a licensed electrician and, and it's done properly and it's properly sized, it probably shouldn't have a problem.

It's just that, you know, there is the potential for individuals to do it, try to do it on their own or to try to, you know, oversize, and that's where we might have problems.

Yeah, so the ones that is talking about the generators that is plugged into the inverter, you have to have a license electrician to do that. You cannot, as a homeowner, do it.

On your, you know, that, you know, it's a good question. I'm not sure because I know, I know people do have backup generators for, you know, weather, you know, weather backup. If you know what you're doing, you're probably safe. If you don't know what you're doing, you're probably maybe at risk. Yeah.

It's good to at least be be schooled on how to do it properly. Yes.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair. You're welcome. Any further questions? If not, we're going to take a brief recess prior to.

To provide commentary on Zoom.

She already provided comments, so we're going to go into a brief recess prior to taking the vote.

Thank you for your patience. We're back on the agenda at 301 for decision making on the first measure, Senate Bill 2671, relating to essential permitting positions. We like everything that this Bill is espousing to do, which is to make government more efficient and reduce some of the red tape in the permitting process.

So we'd like to move this measure on and just simply defect the date of this measure to April 19, 2042. Any discussion? If not Senator Chang? I vote yes.

Chair's recommendation for Senate Bill 2671 is to pass with amendments. Chair votes yes. Vice Chair aye, Senator Decoy. Senator Richards. Senator Favela. Aye. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, Members. Senate Bill 2902 relating to renewable energy. This is to allow for what some are terming as balcony solar and getting more people activated to help provide renewable energy onto the grid. The recommendation is to take the PUC's two suggested amendments and to defect the date to April 192042. Any discussion? If not Senator Chang? I vote yes.

Chair's recommendation for Senate Bill 2902 to pass with amendments noting the presence of all Members. Are there any objections or reservations seeing? None. The recommendation is adopted.

Thank you for your patience, Members. We adjourned.