Senate Standing Committee on Commerce and Consumer Protection

Okay. Calling to order the Joint Committee on Ways and Means and Hawaiian Affairs. Today we'll hear from the Department of Hawaiian Homelands who will present their supplemental budget requests. So, good morning.

Good morning. Chair De La Cruz, Vice Chair Morwocki and Chairs Richards and Lamosao. And my name is Kali Watson. I'd like to first thank you for allowing us to testify today and introduce the people on the table. We have Kalani Fronda, head of our Land Development Division, and Katie Lambert, Deputy Director.

And in the back, as well as people coming in, is our staff. So if you have any more specific questions, I'll call on them to answer the more specific type questions. We did submit our testimony rather than going through the whole thing. Maybe if I highlight it, if you don't mind. And also. Yeah, okay.

And then also in addition to that, I believe this thick, kind of like a brochure that gets into a lot of details, but I think puts it in a good line regarding the Act279 and how we're using it.

Especially if you look on page 11, which is kind of a summary of all the different projects, 28 projects we have, as well as how we use the 600 million which is totally been encumbered as of next, as of last month.

It not only shows the projects by island, but it also shows the number of units that will be generated as well as a schedule when we anticipate the construction for that particular project to start, as well as the occupancy to be completed.

As you see on the bottom of page 11 on that handout, we've basically spent little over 511 million on infrastructure. And then with respect to acquisition because of, you know, the need of, for better lands less costly to develop in gooder, better locations. We did acquire some lands which were allowed under Act 279.

So we spent about 50, little over 52 million for that and acquired about 556 acres. And then in addition to that, we used some of the Act 279 money for financing and beneficiary services. About 36 million.

The next page also kind of gives a good summary of, you know, with respect to islands, how much of the Act279 was spent per island, as you can see. And then on the green, it is remaining costs of budgeted for a particular project in total.

And I would just point out to the right side, which kind of lays out the expenditures and use of funds. We in highlight in red the amount of monies that we would need in order to complete the projects.

But you didn't really spend it yet. Right. You said it says there you only spent 120 million.

Yeah, we've only. But you know, with construction and development is usually progress payments.

So the monies are spoken for, but they're not spent.

Yeah, only 120 million.

Yeah. So when you're saying we're spending on island and all that it hasn't been spent yet.

No, no. But say encumbered. We have a contract. We have a developer agreement. We got a deal. Like for example in Kahulu Kahai, where we have over a thousand units.

I think that it's not clear. It makes it a. That it's spent. Yeah, no, the versus what's budgeted for.

Each island, it's not only budget, but more important, it's encumbered as required by the law. Yeah, we needed to get it done. So we've done it as of last month, the total 600 million.

Yeah. So even though it's encumbered, if the price changes, if something happens, then we'd.

Have to, you know, look, look to like any kind of development costs go up. You got to figure out how to.

People to believe or to leave thinking that this money was actually spent.

No, no, no, it's not spent. You're correct. But they are. It is encumbered and it's spent as the work is done. Yeah. When the work is done, you get paid.

Okay.

And then, you know, we also, in this handout, we kind of lay out some of the. Not only areas that we are doing developments, but we also wanted to just share with you folks that we are working with the different counties, especially with water development. Water is real key.

Rather than using all our money, what we'd like to do is work in partnership with the different counties, which has been actually very productive. We also have been supported by some of the counties by them setting aside, for example, on Maui County, they've set aside part of their GT money to us 20%.

And so by 2030 we should receive between 80 to 90 million of their funds that we can use for infrastructure development. We are working with them on a couple of projects.

Besides water on this island, the sitting county of Honolulu has also kind of set a precedent by not only transferring lands to or in the process of transferring lands, but also has allocated some of their money for some CIP development.

In particular, in Kailua Kalaheo, they've transferred some lands and then also provided some infrastructure money to address the challenges for that particular site and making it usable for single family residential.

Okay. But some of These you can go over in subject matter, but I think for purposes of today, we're only looking at the supplemental budget requests.

Well, I get Members have questions after you. Sure. Present.

Okay.

Let me just summarize a little bit on the supplemental budget. Table six.

You can just go to table six.

Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Katie, want to take that? My PH is table six. 87.

Table.

Just go table six. Yeah. There's only one name.

Yeah, go ahead. Okay. I'll have the deputy Director who's kind of more versed.

Presentation. So with respect to Table 6, as most Members are aware, the Department crafts its budget in relation to two things. One, the constitution that says that the Legislature shall make sufficient sums for four purposes. Lot development, loans, rehabilitation, and administrative and operating costs.

And then there's a Nelson case which beneficiaries brought against both the state and the Department. So that's just a really quick, really overview of Table 6.

So in relation to what we asked for versus what is reflected in the governor's budget, Table 6 reflects all of the things that were not included but approved by our Hawaiian Homes Commission.

So we did ask for. I think you're talking about table four. So table four includes everything you asked for in the governor's decision. Table 6 only includes the governor's decision.

Oh, I apologize. I'm looking at the wrong table. My table six is the proposed budget additions.

Am I. There's only one item.

Yeah, there's a 20 million for repair, maintenance. No Nahasda. Zero, Nahasa.

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

That's the only thing they got.

That's Federal Fund.

Sorry, I thought we were. I. I heard table six. So, yes, table four is what the Governor provided, which is a ceiling increase, a budget ceiling increase for the revolving. The Nahasda revolving funds. Are we looking at different.

I apologize. Could have a different table than us. But Table 6 is only what is in the supplemental budget.

Okay.

So. Yes. So out of what we had the initial Department requests in Table 4, we received only our request to raise the federal Fund revolving loan ceiling for our Nahasda.

And that's because with the accelerated lot developments through Act279, our NAHASDA program is finding that it is offering or we want to offer more Nahasda loans, which are 0% interest loans for. For beneficiaries who are AMI 80% and below. And we have at the. The revolving Fund that currently exists was created.

My understanding is that it was created by budget proviso in 2021 and it's just been at 7 million and it has Been it served its purpose up till now. So my understanding from our program staff is that we have actually offered and will surpass the 7 million ceiling in this current year, 2026.

So when we're 2027, we are requesting an increase and we do have specifics as to why we need that. So I do know that our program has quantified why it's at needs to be raised to $23 million. And we can provide that. I apologize, I don't have that right in front of me, but we can provide that.

Okay, so you don't have the breakdown as to why you need to go from 7 to 23.

Not at the table, but we can provide.

Okay, you have a waiting list? Do you have a waiting list in terms of knowing that you do have the need for the basing it three times?

Yeah. So we actually have loans that are basically encumbered or we have named beneficiaries for loans and we do have that information.

So you do have a waiting list that you can provide to us?

No, it's more than just a waiting list. It's justification for from going from 7 to 23. So it could be more things than just a waiting.

So thank you for that question, Senator. I'm Lehua Kinilau Kano. I oversee the Nahasda program for the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. So between July and October of this year, we did 10 turnkey homes in Puhona and one demo rebuild in Waimanalo. That total price is 6.9 million. That just took us to October of this year.

So for the rest of this fiscal year to June 30, we have 9.5 million to finance 18 additional homes. These people already signed purchase and sales contracts in Puhona. And we have. We need 4.8 million to finance eight homes in Kai, so 14.3 million by June 30th of this year.

Then for the next fiscal year 2027, we have 31 million that we need to finance nine additional. That's going to wrap up our homes will be by the end of this calendar year, December 2027, we have 5.2 mil and we have 25.8 million for 43 homes in Kaulokahai.

All of these families are 80% and below historically probably would have been passed up. And that's why the Nahasda financing is super critical. So we're asking to increase the loan ceiling because we have the funds.

It's just a matter of being able to to disperse those funds to these families again for Puhona all the contracts are signed for Kaulookaha'. I. They're in the process of completing contracts. So the families will have contracts signed for these funds.

How much is it per family that you're giving?

So the, the homes are running from the two bedroom homes in Puhona is our lowest costing is about 411,000. The five bedroom is 699,000. So but again we keep it very affordable. It's 1% interest rate loans to these families. With the interest rate going right now in the market, it's very difficult to finance that.

Okay, so the, the 23 million.

But you said you're going to need 31 in the next fiscal year. I know we're, we're running high. Senator. I, I will clearly acknowledge that to you. We didn't anticipate this.

We expected some of the families to be.

It's only going to be what you read. The 31 million and that's minimum. If I have, I do habitat homes at 0%. Those are a lot slower.

They're one or two on the different.

Because you're.

Well I get you. It's high. It's high. It's not that it's high. I'm just trying to read the, understand the math. Because it, there's nothing to adjust for the current fiscal year. Correct. You're saying that there's 23 million for that next fiscal year. Correct. And then you mentioned 31. Correct.

So is that for fiscal year 28? That's for fiscal year 27. Senator, I get you.

I understand.

At the time put in the request we didn't have all of the awards and how many families we would be helping. I did not expect that 51 of the 115 homes in Katulukahai would be financed with Nahas the Senator. So we worked with the best information we had when we prepared the budget.

Should be 31, not 23.

Correct. The reason why it's 23 is because it's an additional. So we already have 7 plus the 23 makes it 30.

But 2 centered a 7 is already spent. It was spent as of October.

Okay, so that's yeah, the 6.9. So you need 23 on top of that or you 31 on top of that.

I need 23 on top of the seven. But yes, we need a total of 31 for 2027. Correct. 26. We need another.

There's. If there's going to be an adjustment. Are you going to try to see if the Governor can send down a GM?

So we're pursuing two options, Senator, to try and just be fully transparent. One is to look at the loan increase for the ceiling as you. As we've asked for. The other is we're trying to pursue if we can just have the funds dispersed directly from the Native Hind Housing Block grant.

So we may ask for an increase in the Federal Fund ceiling of the end Fund ceiling. So we could look at either option.

So full transparency, we're looking at either way. That's fine. So if you guys are going to. I'm just trying to figure out the mechanism correct adjustment. So are you going to work with BNF and the governor's office to send down a GM to adjust the numbers that were. That are going to come down?

We can't do that if need be.

Again, it's evolving a better approach.

Sure.

Yeah, you can do it that way, Senator. Okay. Okay. Any other questions on Table 6? Okay, Members, any questions on any of the tables?

Just on 15, which is the CIP you're asking for.

But they only got one.

They only got the first one.

Yeah.

19.

Yeah.

Table 15.

Table 15.

So there's only one. Yeah.

Yeah. One request.

They asked for, but the Governor on gave, what?

119.192 million.

Isn R M.

Yeah. Yeah. RM can you give us some of the breakout of what you're. You're going to be doing?

You don't have to do it now, but it's a follow up. Yes, we, we have that. In fact, I think it might be one of our attachments to our testimony. But we can certainly give that to you. If you look at attachment 10. And.

This was just recently modified, so I apologize if there's a discrepancy between what I'm sharing and what you have in front of you.

Your attachments are different tables versus the budget. Yeah. No, no, no. So Yours is Table 10 for the breakdown.

In our testimony. We have attachments referring to what was approved by the Hawaiian Homes Commission. So that would have our. Or that should have our breakdown of where we got to 19.192. So attachment 10.

Oh Attachment 10.

Yeah. Attachment to our testimony. I apologize. Not table.

Attachment 10.

Page 80. Yeah.

Okay, okay, okay. Okay. So you have the four projects on the Big Island, the one project on Kauai, one project on Maui, and then 1, 2, 3, 4. Well, several projects on Waianae, Nanakuli, Waimanalo and then Island wide and then Telcom statewide.

That's correct.

Any other questions?

So I guess the question is are these to get them to standards you can turn them over versus, you know, just holding on to it.

That's correct.

So what's the timeline of the turnover?

Because I, I know you have staffing issues to, to work on this, but are we going to get to that point of turnover? Because I think that's costing it quite a bit. Right.

So we have a staff of four that are working on these particular projects and we have a schedule that we're working on as well. We're actually starting in the sitting county of Honolulu having those discussions as well as the memorandum of agreement to be able to do that.

So there are discussions and we're also having those discussions with the various DPWS Public works in the other municipalities. Our hope is within the. So we're doing two things. One is in the new projects are making sure those are turned over at that particular time. The ones that are aging communities.

We're working on a schedule to be able to turn those over within the next three to five years. But of course, you know, we're looking at a statewide basis. So we're, we're working on the process and the systems in the city and county of Honolulu first. So what's, what's the timeline of the turnover, you think?

So we are pushing for the three to five years for these, but we anticipate it's going to be a little longer, closer to seven.

Well, I think, I think it's, I think when, when you new projects, you do have to proceed very carefully. Right.

Because I think, you know, HHFDC learned this and I know you guys want to go fast with certain projects, but I think the infrastructure part is key that we don't, we don't necessarily do it and then it's in our hands before we, you know, before the county commits to taking over. Because now we're looking at the costs.

Right. Of all these projects that we still hold on to and it's just, just keeps adding up and it never ends. Right.

So. So we've activated those types of agreements during infrastructure and we did that recently in Kona with one of our villages in Kapolei and we also in the process of doing it in Puhono.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I think we, we gotta keep focus because I think it's, it's a big money drainer for at least for the state. But you know, hopefully the counties will take responsibility.

Thank you.

Do you guys already have an MOA as to which standard you have to meet? Because I hope they don't keep moving the goal post.

So that has been the challenge over the past Dec. Several Decades is it does move and all of it is based of course on not only on county but standards.

So we are, you know, as I had mentioned in the Sydney Con Honolulu, using that as a template so we can establish that particular set of codes that we need to meet for that particular item.

So we're starting off with we have the more of the low hanging fruit were rooms as well as street lighting and of course the other stuff is longer sidewalks, gutter.

Yes. Yeah. But each project has a MOA with the county so that you. There's at least an agreement and the, the, the standard of the year of a certain year that you guys are going to try to.

That's the discussion we've been having as we build out the infrastructure with the particular municipalities.

Yeah. Because that's the one way they can not have to take it.

Correct. Yeah. And we hold them to that because we have a set of standards that we've already established. Those MOA is going to be complete. That comes continually, continually do that on a project by project basis.

But each project should already have a agreed set. Yes. Standards so that you're not. Because if not you're making the improvement. They're like, oh, too late now. It's supposed to be 2012 standards or 2018 stand and then you make those standards. Oh, too late now. Got to be 2020 standard.

They can keep changing it. When we establish the development agreement as well as secure the particular contracts with OGCs, we've been establishing those bases.

Yeah, but I would. Before we put more money into that, I just want to make sure that there's an agreement on the specific standard that they're willing to accept. Because you know we're going to put in money, they're going to change the standard. You're going to come back, ask for more money. Right.

And then we give you the money, then they're going to change the standard. Then you have to come back again.

I mean we're in this. Correct. So we've established the items that we're addressing right now. Those are the ones that we're. We're. Working on for those particular MOAs as I mentioned.

You can give us a copy of some of that. Sure. When we have the Wham briefing with the counties, then we can follow up with the mayors on these moas. Okay, thank you.

And then we can ask them publicly.

Because that's not fair to the state or to dhh.

Correct. So we've done that. You know, and some of it as I mentioned, really is itemized because it has different schedules, timelines, etc. But we do want to establish those. We've established MOAs with water.

Lifricated on standards.

Correct.

Oh wow. The road could have one year, the sidewalk a different year.

Established standard that both sides agree, both the counties as well as the Department. It's not the whole development. No, no. It's not bifurcated in phases. It's bifurcated more of the particular item itself.

But so we're trying to address on the whole project right now it's more like if we're talking about sidewalks, we're going to do that MOA on that.

If we're talking about water and wastewater. In one year standard.

So there's. Yes. Wow. Just makes it much easier if we're able to establish as you mentioned, you want to have a different standard on each base.

So for example, on Kolo Kahai we have four phases and villages going forward. Right. I'm trying to figure out what about other things because so we still got all the ones from how long ago they haven't extracted.

And that's what I think, Senator, actually. Going on about 100 years for some of these, these communities.

And then that's the reason why we wanted to work with a combination of having those discussions not only with the Department, but also with various legal counsels, Corp . Council and AG's office on really identifying that what needs to be within those MOAs.

Because when I was doing CIP almost 10 years ago, we gave money to Papakolea and I don't know if the city pursuer and I don't know if the city ever accepted it yet. Oh yeah, see, I mean we're still working 10 years, right. And we funded that 10 years ago.

So I'm not sure what the new standard is that you need to ask for more money so you can.

This thing is bad. I mean, want to prevent, as Senator Hashimoto is alluding to, is kind of, you know, continue to ask for the same particular project. So that's the reason for the MOAs.

So then we can set that standard. Get it?

You have, you can give that to us before we meet with the mayor.

Okay.

Just follow up on that one. When you're talking about the streets, is this, are they more inclined to insist upon complete streets or are they amenable?

Because I know in Waimea we have a path and people like that, they far prefer it over the sidewalks. Is that amenable? Is that the, the municipalities, are they open to that kind of little bit of wiggle room?

Yeah, it really depends on the project. You know, if you're in a kind of a rural area where sidewalks really don't make sense, especially on the Big island, they are a little bit more amenable to that kind of waiver.

And, you know, we get to assert that we don't really need to do that, but we'd rather have an agreement. Now, talking about the Papakolea, that's been a real challenge because the infrastructure is so antiquated, and to fix it and bring it up to standards is a real challenge. So we've been working with Representative Case.

We're looking to get significant funding for him to. From him to improve those. But those kind of areas, as well as, say in Kapolei, you know, where we are still battling with the counties under Act 227, Session Loss 2014, which mandates that they take it over for those that are have been committed, completed after mid-1990s.

So those are the ones that we're having challenges. So we'll get you all the information and then maybe you can kind of encourage those guys because they do kind of move the goal a lot on us.

Appreciate that.

Thank you, Director.

Any other questions?

Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Calling to order the Joint Committee on Ways and Means and Public Safety and Military Affairs. So we're first going to hear from the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation on their supplemental budget requests. And then we have other departments that will follow, so good afternoon.

Aloha. Chair Dela Cruz. Chair Fukunaga. Vice Chair Lee. I don't see Moriwaki. But anyway, Members of the Committee, so.

We can keep this short because you actually don't have any operating budget requests that were approved by the Administration.

We have one.

Oh, you have one. Oh, yeah, that's right.

We have one. Okay, so what you're saying is.

No, not what I mean. I guess there's no new money. Yeah. Yeah.

So what you're saying is don't need to even summarize my testimony.

Oh, you can if you want.

Oh, but if it's not necessary, then I won't go through the process.

You can just go over the transfer and just explain why you.

Nice of you. I wanted to say. Thank you. That I'm not Tommy Johnson. My name is Melanie Martin. I am the Deputy Director for Administration with the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. Our Director apologizes for not being able to be here. He really wanted to be here and so did I. But anyways.

You're doing a good job so far.

So anyway. Yeah, so anyway, he can't be here. But anyways, we. I was going to summarize my testimony, but Chair Dela Cruz, if you want me to just get to the point, that's fine.

What we're doing is we're requesting 35 new positions in our healthcare division program ID421, and that is to complete the Optilando lawsuit, the settlement agreement, as well as to provide for additional needed medical staffing. So that's what we're doing.

Oh, so it's okay. So for us Members, it's in table four.

Thanks.

It's the. It says. You'll see it. The initial Department request was 35, and then BNF cut it down, but the Governor's Office reinstated the 35. So that's for PSD421.

421. Yeah and what we're doing is we are transferring, trading off the program ID808, as well as PSD900.

Yeah. So it's a revenue-neutral request.

Thank you. I was looking for that term. Revenue neutral

Or cost neutral?

Cost neutral. Okay.

Any questions?

One follow-up with respect to the 35 positions. You know, it sounded as though in some of the previous Comments that the Director has made is that you envision this taking kind of more than one year and so you're going to be phasing it in segments. Right. Can you explain some of that?

So we're actually asking for partial funding because it's a lot of positions. Right, 35 positions. So we're just wanting to establish the positions at this point so we can get it. Get them on the books to kind of offset any Department of Justice or any. Any kind of. Yeah. Mandate. Right.

So we're just trying to get it on the books right now. So we have some positions at three months funding and then some at six months. I will to ask for full funding in the future.

Thank you.

Any questions? Chair Elefante

Thank you. Chair. I have a question on the roadway going to Wava Correctional Facility, have you guys thought about programming funds for CIP to repave that road? You know, going up to Milani Mortuary, up to Wava.

I agree it needs to be repaved.

Is that a state road?

No, no, no.

That's a private road. It's multiple owners though.

Yeah. Isn't it like communion schools or something? Yeah. So.

Senator, do you know if there's an MOA with cost agreement

That I'm not aware of. Tess, can you check if what the agreement is with the different landowners on improvements? There's none. Okay. We might want to do a resolution. Urging for different landowners in the Department to do.

Just to get it started. Just talk about it. Thank you Chair.

Yeah, go ahead.

With regards to the additional Hawaii Big Island, the Hilo Community Correctional Facility. And it always has been controversial with the Kona.

So do we have any future plans to create a Kona center or facility to house the new, I guess felons or whoever instead of driving them over to Hilo which has been, you know, getting involved with overcrowding for the Hilo facility?

Thank you, Senator. Yes. Actually that's part of our long term goals. It's summarizing my testimony. So we really. There's up to estimated up to 40% of the individuals in HCC. They're from the corner side and it's really making it hard for families to come and visit as well as the wear and tear on our vehicles.

We to like 35000 miles on our vehicles because of these daily transfers. So yes.

Yes to the shortage of the. The employees in Kona. Yes. That's why we have the OT the over time. That's, you know, can't help it.

Yeah. Yes. So it is part of our long term goal to Build a west to like how many?

Because we just completed the new building at Hilo, which. Thanks. You know that it finally has been added. Correct.

The 48 housing. 48 bed housing unit is completed in December 2024.

That's correct. And still not enough because you're still taking in the Kona, you know, kind of balance that's coming in. Yes, yes. So. But you're saying long term, so like.

No, but there, there is a. I think number 10. Yeah. Your priority in the C. Okay, so. So it says New West Hawaii Jail and Community Center.

Good.

Yes, it's part of our long term goal, Senator.

But you. The dollar amount. Dollar amount. It was. zero, that.

Okay. We don't have a dollar amount right now because it's too early to tell. It will depend on the type of where our site is select. You know, our selection of our site, whether there's infrastructure there as well as the kind of building we're going to do, whether we're going to do.

Stunning.

Thank you.

One more to add. My understanding, unless somebody here has the answer. I understand perhaps with a new courthouse, they may be doing something on the ground to add a couple of rooms.

Did you hear of anything? Definitely no.

How come. Can. Can somebody confirm that later? See if there's something going on right now to see if there. There's. There will be an expansion of a few rooms on the. In the courthouse.

Certainly we can get that to you. Okay.

Get that to you. I mean, that'll be great temporarily to house some of them.

Since you guys are futuristically looking to Bill says the lease is going to be terminated in the middle of Hilo and corner. Look for something like that by.

Okay. Any other questions?

Questions really quick with regards to the overtime. I'm not sure if the Department has any table 13 to kind of curb the overtime. And so I just wanted to get. Your response because apparently it's costing about $2.4 million fiscal year 2026. So what is your folk solution to that?

We really need to invest in more staff.

Yeah. Table 11, you can see the vacancies. But you guys are. I see the commercials.

Yes. So we have a very robust recruitment campaign going on now where we're doing TV, we're doing radio, on the buses, Skyline, and we also are looking to our retention efforts as well. So we're investing in staff wellness so that we can staff up our facilities and minimize this overtime.

And I'm going to be honest, so sometimes it's the ACOs themselves. I mean, we have a lot of individuals out on FMLA on Rutgers comp. And so that drives up the overtime costs significantly Senator.

Yeah, quick follow up. You know, I know the overtime cost is a big concern, but at the same time, the director's testimony did talk about, you know, boosting a lot of the training sessions, et cetera.

Has your Department looked at what Honolulu Police Department and Department of Emergency Services at the city has done, where they seem to be embarking on a program of both initial training and development, as well as retention bonuses, which may hopefully improve the ability to retain those who are experienced as well as building a much stronger workforce.

Certainly a few years ago, Director Johnson collaborated or communicated with the Department of Human Resources Development to, to put out their retention bonuses as well as longevity pay. And it will depend on the number of years that they were actually working facilities and they would get a longevity pay, and you can certainly revisit that Chair.

Okay, can you send us some of the background information that your Department submitted? I think that'll be helpful because in the long term, you know, with 28 vacancy level, it is hard to catch up.

That's, you know, it's, yes, it's sort of like Director Lambert talking about how hard it is to be able to compete when at the next booth, you know, in a recruitment fair, what HPD is offering is so much higher than what DLE is offering. So I'm sure that, you know, Police Department, it's even more pronounced.

It's the same with us. It's the same because HPD, for example, even though HBD DOE for some people, they perceive that as a, like a step up from corrections. But anyway, sure, we can provide you with that information.

Chair But I wanted to tell you that for us, we really ramped up our training efforts because in 2023, we only had four training classes, academy classes, and there were the academy was 11 weeks long.

So in 2024, we reduced that to eight weeks and then we had 66 academy classes, and in 2025 we had eight, including three on Hawaii Island. So we're really trying to staff up and it's really difficult. It really is.

And the employee, of course, is not as high or lucrative as, say, maybe Police Department because they have all of these incentive pay right now, like bonuses. So. Yeah. And I don't know, do you guys want me to go over the CIP, the additional request for CIP, the 45 million?

Unless people have questions

What's the administration's plans going or increase the, I guess, the programs and adding to future population.

Well.

The reason I brought it up is because there have been so many changes at Kalani now. There was a program with agriculture and they had a thriving agriculture, growing vegetables and whatever.

They were also had purchases made within the community and to the schools. All of a sudden we have a change in Wharton, I guess. All of that collapsed and those that were working and managing the fields of vegetables growing, everything disappeared. We have new directions. So very concerning.

But also it's such a huge facility and I hope that this Committee can visit because we have so much acreage there. We can increase the capacity and send some of your overflow overcrowding here on Oahu backs to Kulani.

With respect, I just visited the farm at Kulani and it's a very robust program. They have the individuals in custody working the farms. We have hydroponics. They're growing lettuce

Back into

I mean, we still have it. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Good and.

It really is thriving. So I mean, they feed the individuals in custody there and at HCCC. And I believe it some of goes to the community as well. So we really do have a farm there.

Okay, so it'll continue. Okay. They need help. Are they asking for monies or anything to increase, you know, their I guess.

No, not the supplemental year, Senator.

All right, thank you. But hopefully the Committee can.

Question.

Question. Oh, I thought I was going to talk about the. But anyway. Yeah. So the question is, you know, I know you guys talking about filling the positions. Yeah.

And then the pay. But it's also the environment, you guys having the classes. But the facilities we all know is falling apart over the years. Nothing was being keeping up or even being fixed up at the place. So what.

What are we doing with the ones that right now you guys are still having corrections working 18, 15 hours a day. I mean, you know, we talked about that over and over and I get it almost again. So how are we gonna minimize that in the sense of you guys recruiting?

I try to attract people to come when you have this kind of overworked workers as it is now.

So wait, you might want to take a look at table 15. So table 15 has all the different CIP requests for all the different facilities of what they're trying to do so that they can improve the different centers.

Living and working conditions of our facilities. And that's why we're requesting 45 new. 45 million additional points.

So they got some monies. I'm sure. When I looked at the CIP lapses on 16, table 16 there are none. So they're, they're working on the, the list of projects they got last fiscal year and then now they're asking for everything in 27.

Because is the high, Is it the high security on Halapa? Is it closed? High security site?

The special needs facility is closed.

Yeah. So they got, last year they got 28.5 million for the healthcare unit at Halaba. Any other questions? Just one.

Thank you so much. I'm sure we can get into the substance later on at a different point, but when it comes to just overall cost and effectiveness of programmings or programming that ultimately can help or detract from applicants wanting to work in a place.

Have you guys looked at some of the models that other countries, other states, other systems employ that seem to be really successful, changing these dynamics that we're facing here?

I do believe we did some research on the Norway, the Norway prison system and their facilities, and we can continue to do that. And I think that for us, we really need to focus on staffing and getting the right people into our facilities because without staff there, we really cannot have any kind of prison reform.

And we also focus on staff wellness because if the staff are not healthy and well, we cannot have prison reform. So that's what we're focusing on. And in terms of Senator Fevella's question about the 24 and the shift work, what was your question again sorry?

Well, the question is how you better end up recruiting when the people that you bring it in already, and it's already going around the community that you guys having overwork and not safe environment for the, for the correction officers in the vicinity because you guys don't have enough manpower, which is understandable.

But again, you guys are shutting down units and areas. That's not making the public or ACO safe and this is coming from them. So again, so it's not made up. Even though you guys can say that's not true, it is true. They're overworked.

How are you going to attract people like that when they can go to the new law enforcement and HPD? Even if we bring up the pay. Even if we bring up the kind of facility and the morale and the leadership that's running within the prison is not doing a great job. That's the problem right now.

I'll just close up by saying we had a good opportunity, a few of us, to go to Norway and meet with their folks and go through the whole tours of the various facilities and operations. And it was impressive.

Not just because they were able to reduce recidivism from 70% to like 20% or something like that.

But they said the most amazing thing, which was kind of eye opening for us, was that it was actually a paradigm shift in the culture of ACOs and operations and all that, which completely changed who was applying for jobs and ultimately changed the interest. And now they got like, you know, more people than.

They have positions for and all that sort of thing. So love to follow up later on. But anyway, it's been a huge impact on their budgeting and programming and how they do their stuff. So thanks for.

Thank you. Thank you. I agree.

Any other questions?

Also, Chair, I don't need to go through the 45 million.

No, we have it on table 15. And we can see the one item that I guess that's the West Hawaii that was not approved by the Administration. The Red BR approved. Yeah. Okay. Okay, okay.

We're going to recess until 12:30 so we can get Department of Defense to present their supplemental budget request, so mahalo.

You'll be convening. Okay, next we hear from Department of Defense who will present their supplemental budget request. So, Members, we'll just go straight to table six after introductions. Good afternoon.

Okay. Chair Dela Cruz, Chair Fukunaga, Vice Chair Lee, and Committee Members, I'm Major General Steve Logan, the Adjutant General for the State of Hawaii Department of Defense. Aloha, good afternoon, and of course, Happy New Year.

Thank you. Aloha.

Thank you. The following informational briefing provides the Department supplemental budget request for state fiscal years '26 and '27.

If you would please allow me to introduce the Hawaii DOD team. With me to my left is Deputy Adjutant General Brigadier General Philip L. Mallory, call sign buddha. Chief of Staff of the Hawaii Army National Guard, Colonel Ronald Hogston. The Administrator of the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, Colonel, retired, James Barros.

The administer of the—Administrator—of the Community Programs that oversees the Youth and Job Challenge Academies, Brigadier General, retired, Bruce Oliveira. Director of the Office of Veteran Services, Lt. Col. John Alamodin, could not be here today because of his military duty, but we do have all of his data points.

The Military Support Officer, Brigadier General, retired, Neil Mitsuyoshi, who your staffs are probably most familiar with because he represents our department. The Department's new Human Resources Officer, Steven Sung, and the Chief Engineering Officer, Major Xiao Li. The primary mission of the State of Hawaii Department of Defense is to enable a safe, secure, and thriving state and nation.

Our vision is to be trusted, to be ready, and to be responsive.

We're a very small department with a relatively small state budget, but it is important to highlight that although small, the State of Hawaii Department of Defense has a significant mission and that matching state funds, which are—which accounts for—approximately 34% of this year's submission, provides access to significant federal funding that equates to approximately 60—66%—of its annual budget.

Our main effort for fiscal year '27 is to execute exercise vigilant guard 2027 to enhance our ability to defend Hawaii against natural and non-natural emergencies and disasters. Current events around the world highlight the need to prepare now for crisis or conflict and recent events surrounding the South China Sea, North Korea, Taiwan, and most recently, Venezuela, further amplify that need.

The Department requests a lean budget of $38.4 million approximately in state funding for this fiscal year. These funds facilitate approximately $75 million in matching federal funds. The funding would also enable the Department to manage 373 open project grants—correction, projects—against approximately $3.1 billion in federal grant funding.

The major adjustments contained in the budget request focus on sustainment. These adjustments include, and I think this is where we're going to start on table six, about $284,000 in federal funds to add four federally funded positions. The Department of Defense is not requesting any additional general funds for these personnel or operating costs.

Two of these will be maintenance personnel on both Maui and Kauai. One's an engineer and one is a conservation manager for the Hawaii Army National Guard to make sure that we're compliant with all environmental laws. For table 15, the governor's budget approved five FY '27 CIP project requests, totaling $51,250,000.

This includes $27,000,400 in general obligation bond funds to match $23,850,000, in other federal funds. Included within the $27.4 million in general obligation bonds funds is the Department of Budget and Finance adjustment of $1.5 million for...for the state wide refit or retrofit of public buildings with hurricane protective measures. Additional project details are provided in Table 15.

CIP. If there's no questions, I'll move on to some of the departmental vacancies. Yeah, go ahead.

Yes, and thank you. Happy New Year to all of you. Whatever happened to the plans for your building for the office, the President Office, that we needed a building for—I don't know how many years ago? Plans for a new site?

I believe you're referring to the EOC for the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, Senator. Yeah, we, we felt it wasn't prudent to submit in the supplemental year here and that may be revisited next year.

Okay. I think that was quite a, a—something that was on the table for I don't know how many years. I visited when I was overseeing DoD as well, years ago. And just a need is there.

Yes, ma'am. It is a represented need for the Department, but it is quite a heavy lift.

Is that going to be your CIP request? Okay, then I don't know why you're asking.

Okay. All right. I just worry with the facility that takes care of all of your communications. Thank you.

It's not like I didn't try.

No, the CIP should go to the.

No, I tried. I put CIP in.

No, the new tier. Carol—Senator Fukunaga., I, I.

Then it's going to end up in Makiki side.

And transportation.

We can see the vacancies. Any, anybody have questions on any of the tables?

I have a question for Administrator Barros.

Go ahead. And thank you to the TAG and DAG. Appreciate all your work and your staff.

Administrator Barros, with the changes to FEMA, in terms of your personnel and funding, do you guys have enough in what you need, if we're not sure of what the headwinds might be for federal reimbursement as it relates to FEMA?

Thank you, Senator.

This year—we're pretty comfortable this year. I think, going into this next iteration with FEMA and their 2.0 and where they're going as they're cutting staff, currently, this year, we'd probably go into the next budget.

The next biennium.

Yes, sir.

Okay, thank you.

You know, on table 13, the third to the bottom, it says major disaster fund rollover. The overtime percent was 96%. That was only for '25. So, there's nothing in 20—estimated for '26.

I'll have to consult, real, real quick, but I believe that's a type of typographical error.

Okay. This is '25.

If not, you can just send us a corrective.

Are we going to update this? Yeah. Okay, let us go back, reconvene, and we'll send you an updated, corrected table.

Any other questions?

Okay. If not, we'll recess. I guess we only need, what, a couple minutes? Five minutes. Okay, we'll recess for five minutes so that we can get—hear from Department of Law Enforcement. Thank you.

Okay, reconvening. Next we'll hear from the Department of Defense. I'm sorry, we did that. Department of Law Enforcement, who will present their supplemental budget request? I think they only have one, so. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Mike Lambert. I'm the Director of the Department of Law Enforcement.

With me today is the Deputy Director of Enforcement, Jared Radula, Deputy Director of Administration's Ernest Robelo, State Fire Marshal Dori Booth, Executive Officer Brandon Asuka, Finance Manager Durazo Fong, Litigation Coordinator Laura Maishiro, Human Resources Officer Jennifer Igami, Budget Analyst David Tran, and Legislative Analyst Kathy Seal.

So the Department of Law Enforcement is responsible for courts, airports, harbors, Executive protection, state narcotics investigations, criminal investigations, Office of Homeland Security. And the newest additions to our responsibility are Wirex and Ag Enforcement. This year we made great strides in moving the new initiatives.

We did a lot of community engagement for the ag community to ensure that someone who's going to take those investigations seriously and follow up on that fireworks. We did well on the importation side. We were able to recover 121,000 pounds and we still have to weigh three more containers. That resulted in five felony arrests.

We executed 23 search warrants and we began eight nuisance abatement cases against property owners. I will acknowledge that we got to get better at giving tickets. And I will work with the counties to ensure that whatever shortfalls came that evening, we look at it and we, we get better at it moving throughout the year.

If you guys, we have our KPIs on and our indicators on page two to 10. If you guys have any question on that, I'll be happy to answer on page 11 into our priorities. Priorities 12 and 3 have to do with our state narcotics responsibility.

What we're asking for is to increase the ceiling limit of the revolving Fund. The revolving Fund is paid for through the prescription drug program. But as cost for training and cost for testing increase, we have to increase the ceiling for us to accommodate those expenses for priorities 456 and 7.

That just has to do with move around, moving positions between program IDs, but it's a net zero, no increase.

And for 8 and 9, that has to do with the Department of Law Enforcement having the attached agency of the fire marshal to move money that was going to Department of Labor into the Department of Law Enforcement so that the fire marshal can actuate her function. Open up to questions.

Any questions? Okay. Not recess. zero, adjourn. zero, you have one. Okay.

You must be good. I show up to you Guys, meetings. Right. So.

I just wanted to double check. Right. I think congratulations on the work that you've done for. For your fireworks. Unfortunately, you have enough funds to continue the task force into this next year. And I think what we need to understand is what are the resources that you need to continue the momentum?

Because I think part of it is there was a lot of hype. You were on the news.

But then I think as a result, I don't know, I hope there's people going to get tickets in the mail, because if they're going to be like, okay, it was just hype and then nothing actually happens, then we're going to go back to square one. Right.

And so I think we as a Legislature and the policymakers need to understand what are the next steps that we need to do to make sure that you're successful in your next steps.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that question. So the eight misses. So for the video that we took via drones and what we were able to observe on the ground, the issue was that people were playing a little more cat and mouse with us this year.

So what they would do is what we saw there on the street, and I did work that evening, and this is my account, is that they would run out into the street, light up real quick, it would grab the attention of the drones, and when the drones would fly over, they would all run back into the party.

So that's why we weren't able to give tickets. And what we did was because I was out in the field, I adjusted those investigations against the property owner. So for those that aren't familiar, nuisance abatement, the first thing that you have to do to do that civil process is to give the property owner an opportunity to abate.

So it's not a toothless thing. It's a. It's a tactic that I use against game rooms when I was with the Honolulu Police Department. So although I couldn't prove who lit it or who was in control of it, the good thing is through civil process, I can still actuate action against the homeowner.

So those are the kind of things you see. Tickets are great. It's a great way for law enforcement to show the community that's not something we support, but it's not the only avenue to correct behavior.

I think that once we get the indictments of the five importers, we think that on the importation side, it'll start to search people from wanting to do that because a lot of them are facing b felonies at this point. So funding wise I think it's good and we just have to step up, giving more tickets.

And it's just something that we just have to own as a law enforcement community that, that we fell short on that portion, but we did really well in other sections of enforcement.

Well, and I think at a certain point you just, I don't know what that entails of what, you know, informing the property owner. But we got to give notice. Right. Because if they, if they think nobody's watching, then they're just going to continue to do, do this. And we got to anticipate that cat and mouse game. Right.

Because as things ramp up, they're going to be like, okay, I'm going to evade them somehow. But I think, I think it's just, we got to be, you know, we have to understand what are the next steps.

Right, Absolutely. So the letters are. We're actually in final draft working office to have the final format. Once I signed those, and it would be sent certified mail to the property owners. And we would be more than happy to report on that. We still have about 20 hours of video to review, as well as the tip line.

So if the tip lines were very, if we feel like the tip lines are credible, in other words, they showed photographs and whatnot, we may be able to serve nuisance abatement warnings on that, the strength of that as well. As long as we believe that there's a preponderance of evidence that the property was in violation.

Right. And then I, I sent this to your office already, so you probably well aware, but I think people, you know, were calling the tip line and they couldn't get through. So we need to fix that. Because I know when I read some of the reports you're, you're basing where you're being located based on the tip line.

And I think people need to understand that. Right. Because if, if they know that if they call in, it's going to be used, I think more people would probably call.

Absolutely. So good news is the message went out that it existed. The bad news was, was that we have to broaden our contract with the vendor so that they have more live lines available, particularly at peak time. So this was year one. They definitely some, some definite growing points for us, Senator.

So we're going to tackle those and work on it and be ready for next year.

Chair. Yeah. Question.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, we should ask Michelle and then me.

Okay, yeah, I have a comment and then a question. So I live in Mililani and I will tell you that compared to previous years Mililani was. My area was fairly quiet, so I think people, some of the people got the message. But my question then is how, how do you.

Or do you penalize the carriers, whether by air or ship, bringing in the fireworks?

So a lot of times it would fall on the person that ships it. I don't know if we, I don't, I was trying to be creative and think how we would do that, but I think it's, I think it's. Our energy is better spent on the ones that are actually facilitating it.

We are great discussions with U. S. Postal service. So some of the concerns was if we do control delivery, the liability of moving the package and you know, something happening. But the reality is this is that it's happening every day and law enforcement shouldn't be afraid of that. It just comes. It's part of the job.

So you guys will see a little more control deliveries. I think, I think they did, I don't want to guess on the number, but we did do actually some controlled deliveries and we did open up some potential federal cases on that.

So on top of the state cases, the cat was out of the bag for the big island one where the IRS was participating with us. They are actually participating with us on two other investigations which I'm not at liberty to disclose. But I'm, I'm pretty confident that when those come down that they will create an impact.

So are they coming in by mail or people carrying them in?

Vast majority are containers, unfortunately. We, in fact we did have one airport person that did try to bring it through the airport and that one is going to be investigated federally. We do have people that will send it through the mail. So we got to just track all avenues, predominantly on the state.

We're really trying to focus on the containers because a container can have anywhere from 5 to 20,000 pounds depending on how it's shipped, versus in the mail, we're talking anywhere from 10 to 50 pounds depending on what it is.

So we want to attack all areas, but we definitely want to be mindful of our funding and put it where we can get the most in one crack. But thank you for your comment.

I do appreciate that. Chart New year's eve was there drones used in east Hawaii.

So we had them all over. So our. The state drones were in. I, I'm not sure if the county was utilizing their drones in. So because we're a tiny eight by for big island. I'm sorry, no, they didn't. There was a request by.

Because there were. There's quite a Few of the aerials, I mean it was quiet, but because I live on the bay that I could see all of Waika and going on to volcano, that there were a lot. So I mean unusually a lot for this year, but not like last year.

So we will definitely work on it. Chief Mohuna has requested a drone. I wasn't able to execute that contract in time to supply him with one for this year. But we are, we're going to execute additional funding for drones and we are going to give them.

I think we're looking at one for now and perhaps depending on how our funding looks like in this supplemental year, we might be able to provide them with two. And what that would do is provide them that aerial capability. I'm not, I think that their drones are potentially. Let me back up a little.

If any drones were made in China prior to December 23rd, typically they're going to lose the ability to fly. So they need to have an American made drone, which we have. So we're going to be looking at supplementing Hawaii county with those.

But the drones necessarily doesn't necessarily have to be only investigating or flying over for fireworks. The counties can use it for other means as well, right?

Absolutely. So one of the biggest things that we're using for, particularly in Honolulu county is 3D mapping of crime areas. So what will happen is and there's a shooting. Our drones, the stage drones have actually been helping the Arnold Police Department do 3D renderings of the crime scene.

So not only are they're being used throughout the year for a lot of things, some of the things, because we do have the fire marshal within our office, some of the things that we want to do is do at least seasonal overlays so that you folks can see, you know, what areas become dry seasonally and what areas become affected, you know, four times throughout the year, at.

Least in November or October, myself and majority Leader we did a mission to Taiwan and there was a large conference, international conference there and they had the drone exhibition area.

And amazing, the drones that they had were so new and I was very impressed with the ability of how that particular drone they had displayed to cover many other areas. So that was rather interesting. Yeah.

You can share, please. No, and it was several years ago, so a few years now, I'm sure they're a lot better too. That was last year we went. Yeah, but nonetheless. So I went with you the first time.

Sorry. You didn't go second time. The next big one is in Japan.

So if anybody wants to go there.

But nonetheless though, and, and, and you know, the relationship with Taiwan and China. So they didn't want to display China stuff. But I, I'm not sure if it was created and developed within Taiwan, which is a friend of the US So.

Okay. But we're keeping it safe. It's all US Drones, if anybody's curious.

Yeah.

Where is it made?

Where's the Skydio factory?

Yeah. Arizona, we think.

Yeah, I know, but it's in America, in our country.

Zero yeah. Director shifting gears from, from fireworks to agriculture crimes. Spent a lot of time with you this last summertime. Can you expand on that and talk about your, your planning and funding for that side, please?

Yeah, so, and thank you, Senator. You're a great help when we're trying to recover that mini cow. So thank you for your support there. So we do. So basically what we're doing is we want to utilize this opportunity to create the first state police. We're working with deer to create the specs.

We've basically just stolen Honolulu County's explanation of what a police officer is. And we're just trying to mirror that at the state level. We know that takes time. So we've asked this for a special project so that we can get this started. Pay similar to county wages, you know, while we build out the position descriptions.

The issue is, is that we just have to explain what would happen on years 34 and five because as you know, we have money for year one and two. The, the question that to answer is what happens after that? In regards to the funding.

We, we did try to do a night hunting out out on Big Island. We pulled up empty, but we're going to start to do those now that we're shifting out of fireworks.

You guys should, hopefully we can, we can get some arrest, particularly night hunting in our ag areas on, in Honolulu county and on Hawaii county which the pilots were funded.

Thank you.

The Bill, the Bill had positions and money. Correct. Okay, so at what point are you guys going to ask for the positions to be in the base?

I think after the pilot period we would where we're confident that that's the way it's going to trend. But we just want to deliver on the pilot period. At which point then we would hope that through that special.

Either as a special project being converted into long term costs or running the special project all day through and then asking. I guess that would be kind of dependent on the success. At which point I would ask for it to be in regular operating.

Yeah, but why not at least ask for the positions with no money so that whoever you recruit, they at least can see that they, there's a transition. If not, you're just going to wait till then that a pilot, there's no position.

That's a, that's a great, that's great advice. So we'll definitely work on having a transition plan for that.

Thank you. You know, with respect to your recommendations on recruitment and retention, in terms of what your Department would need, do you need legislation to accomplish that or is that through collective bargaining or any other combination of the two?

So it's through collective bargaining, but perhaps there's a combination. So, you know, we're trying to work with what we have this year, but it's definitely a challenge to recruit when I'm 25,000 behind the county.

So there is, there's some interest on the House of introducing what I recommend is a, they call it a, what I'm calling a base match.

So at the very least, if we could have a 15,000 base match for any employee, because we have 89 day hires at commits, 2,000 hours of service to the daily in a fiscal year, that they would receive a $15,000 base match retention bonus, you know, at some point in the, in the year after.

So what that does for me from a recruiting standpoint is that it would look, we could actually post the job at being 70,000 after your first, you know, year on service versus right now, our posters read 55,000 and the counties are showing at 79,000. And it's just, it's almost impossible to fill that gap.

Understanding that the counties are much busier than we are in General, I'm asking for us to be at least 10 at about 10,000 less than the counties to acknowledge the difference in workload.

But at a pay that I feel, you know, being at the county for over 20 years and coming here, I feel like we are within $10,000 for what we do and what our responsibilities are.

Well, we'd like to explore some of legislation with you.

Yeah, I mean, at some point, you know, I'm one of those where, let's go at 15,000. And as we show value and as my Department grows, at some point maybe we attract by paying higher. Just to let everybody know, the counties nationally, the average pay for a county officer is 80,000.

And actually for state troopers, sheriffs, whatnot is actually 90,000. So we're one of the only states in the nation that pay less for state law enforcement.

Thank you. Yeah, that was good. Thank you, Chair. That was going to be my question basically with regards to the salaries and because I didn't see anything in your budget about asking for more positions.

And maybe it is because you folks are in the pilot season, but I would highly encourage you to maybe through a Bill, legislation, try to insert some sort of position or funding because you folks are really kicking up a lot of momentum and I really do want to see the program work and be effective, especially with the safe and sound program that we just implemented it on the west side.

So. Sorry, my question, my. That was a comment. And my question is with the Safe and Sound program, is any funds being distributed through dle because I didn't see anything in your report about that or is it just support?

So the goal for the DLE is for us to supplement support. So the support that we intend to give out to your constituents is through Director Sniffin has given us additional traffic funds to help to reduce the fatalities, you know, on Farrington Highway. So we will, you will see sheriffs out in patrol periodically.

But we want to, again, the goal is not to get in the way of what the county does, is to supplement. So we are in discussions with the county. What it would look like is to say, hey, we're having an issue around this school and are you guys going to be doing any enforcement in that area?

And if they say no, then we're going to go ahead and take that on. What you guys are going to see in this coming year, again through the generosity of Director Sniffin, is that we're going to focus around speeding around schools in the morning when kids are coming to school and in the afternoon when they're going home.

And what you guys would see on the weekends and evenings is speed and DUI enforcement.

Yeah. Okay, follow up question real quick. Chair, I apologize. It just prompted another. Anyway, the. Is it shot spotter, the technology for safe and sound program that will identify within 10ft. I think it was of a gunshot. Correct. Where, where is the funding coming from that and how quickly will we be able to place.

So we're utilizing it. We're utilizing it out of the fireworks money because it has a secondary purpose for fireworks sound. So what we're going to do is utilize a shot spotter to give us an actual scientific gauge if we're improving year over year. But it does give us accuracy within 10ft of where a gunshot was generated.

Because we're state, we're going to blanket it. Waianae High School, Waianae Intermediate elementary, as well as Nanakuli and the same. And we're going to pilot it there.

A lot of that we'll do is if there is a gunshot, we're going to work through our app to alert the school so that they can have more timely lockdowns if a sound is, you know, if a gunshot is detected in this area of a school, particularly in session.

Sorry, last question and maybe I misheard this, but are you intending on using the shot spotter technology to also spot fireworks?

Correct. So because it's a sound technology, they were built for gunshot detection, but we want to overlay them for fireworks and it can heat map.

So for example, if we see there's a generation on a certain street, then obviously then that's where something we're focus our attention on the another thing we want to be able to do is instead of. Because right now this year was great, right? It was pretty obvious it was lower.

But as our, you know, as it starts to get tighter and tighter and people wanted to change their mind, we really want to have a scientific way of saying that it was quieter over last year and that technology would allow us to do that through decibel readings over periods and on a specific day.

Thank you chair. Request for Fire marshal Booth. And as she comes up, I just want to acknowledge Director Lambert for all your efforts and you and your team that you've done your support and all that. So thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. If I could direct your attention to table 19 and 20 of your budget.

I know there because of the transfer of the state fire marshal, how I read this is are you having a new proposed Bill to articulate some of the transfer funds and do you have enough have those positions been filled within the office of the fire marshal?

That's your General drawdown. So this year with we have not yet filled the positions from Act 302, the inspectors investigators. I do have the office assistant for advertised. Okay.

So hopefully at the end of the month or early February, we'll have that staff person in and then the the deputy working through position descriptions as well as identifying a good candidate.

However, based on that over the last six months of identifying kind of where the fire marshal's office sits, where we would like to go and where the Bill is, we are proposing a special project to in lieu of inspectors and investigators to do an assistant fire marshal position and to increase the wages.

Similar to what the Director was just mentioning about the police officers is we are easily 20 to 30,000 less than the starting similar level.

So with the special project to do things correctly, instead of putting in two inspectors and three investigators, having a multifaceted position that will also build depth to be able to reach out on all the different responsibilities that we have.

Okay, so, so you have the funds, you just have to advertise positions to hire and there's no Bill to Bill that's needed to articulate that.

Correct. Not this year.

And this, this first year and then this, this supplemental year is really trying to do fact finding and build a solid foundation to make sure that we do this right the first time instead of having to come back in supplemental and follow on years to say well we messed that one up, let's come back.

So really doing that evaluation using best practices and how those fit into Hawaii and our unique circumstances with geographical restrictions through not being able to hop in a car and that.

And then last follow up question, I have Chair. So last, last session, thanks to Senator Dela Cruz and Senator Inouye and their leadership, we passed Act 303, which is funding for wildfire prevention. Right. Fire breaks and all. I think it was a million that was appropriated.

All I just asked is that as you go through the appropriations and all due respect to my neighbor island friends that don't leave Oahu out, Oahu does have, you know, issues as you know, with, with wildfires.

So if you could just keep that in mind with that appropriation. Understood.

And that was always the other way around.

Thank you. Thank you. And Senator, I believe that went through DofA so but I do work with Mike pretty closely. So as we continue to evaluate the high risk hotspots throughout the entire state and yes, in Oahu we definitely have our share of problems on our island too.

So it'll really be doing those triages and identifying, you know, the risk assessments and where we're at. So it's my intention is to make sure it's.

Thank you. Right out.

You're welcome, sir. Thank you, Chair. Great. So follow up. So I know you said you guys are using a technology shotspotter.

So you have that all funded and. Paid for right now we do. Where we actually were like the dollar amount I can share once we execute contract. But we do have enough for now. But a lot. We're, we've been very ambitious with technology so we might need infusions as we go.

When the Department of Law Enforcement is created, there's a large tech budget that was given on that year. A lot of those contracts are going to expire in FY28 or 29.

So instead of asking for like a huge infusion in those years, it'd be better if we could get smaller incremental throughout the year and we can just overlap. But right now we're okay for this supplement year. It'd be nice to get a slight infusion so we can get ahead of some of these contracts.

But on the biennium we are going to have some aggressive ask to make sure we can continue on. I'm glad you guys taking a lead because I came up with that Bill, the first kill movie. All the neighbor islands wanted it, not Jared was against the Senator, but it was a great idea.

So I glad you guys taking a lead on that because it is a need. Too bad I'm not doing Ever beach because I wanted Ever beach to be the pilot program. But that's okay, you stick in some money. I'll put it over there.

Thank you, Jeff. So, going back to the farm, Marshall, so it doesn't sound like you were able to spend the 2.2.2 million that you got last year then.

Not at this point, sir, but we do have a plan of action to include getting some contracts out to assist with commute, community relations, public relations to really start building out those footprints, but also doing an assessment throughout the state to identify those out of the 8,000 buildings that are on the state's insurance books to really come back and identify realistic expectations to determine how we're going to inspect buildings.

Currently the Bill does say annually.

Can you give us a new breakdown because it's in the Bill, how the money is supposed to be spent?

Yes, sir. We are working together with finance as well to get that broken down better.

So we should have that. But I almost think you have to amend the Bill because it's clear it's not like the regular budget Bill. In this Bill it actually outlines how the money is going to get spent. It's almost like a proviso.

And if you guys are going to change how you're going to spend it, then you might have to amend the Bill.

We can work together to make sure to verify that what we're doing is.

Understood.

Because it's outlined 206,000 for your position, 189,000 for the deputy, 40,000 for the office assistant. I mean it's. And then it's doubled, it's a little less, maybe like 20,000 of operational costs in the second year.

We'll work together to make sure that with whichever we do need to do with it that it's accurate as soon as possible. So how many contracts do you have now? Now we have one that's in the process of getting ready to go out for RFP and That will be the. The public relations. Community communications.

Understood.

Community relations to really help set up the. The websites testimony, Bill tracking. How much is that contract?

We did not put a cap on it. But you. What you mean you don't have a cap?

So the Bill only allows so much money. It would be within the O and E Fund budget for sure.

So I wouldn't pull from staffing. Okay, but you only have 1.3 for operations costs and equipment and expenses of your office.

Yes, sir. So we'll make sure that it does not exceed the operation.

So it's for government relations.

It's basically where all the staff that I don't have currently for the administrative website public relations, helping track bills, media campaigns and the.

Trying to think of the words that I'm looking for. Even though she's an attached agency chair, I am trying to work with her on it. I think what. I think what the fire marshal is trying to get at is that because she doesn't. She can't acquire her staff quick enough.

The research portion is she intends to contract that out to a consultant. Okay, but the staff that was originally in the Bill are basically investigators and inspectors.

Correct. And that's where the contract that's coming in is to. Because to set up the office and get the foundation laid. The inspectors and investigators that were originally approved is not. Not the best fit for the moment in time that we're at in establishing the office. Yeah. And after.

And that's where the special project as well as the contract and working with the governor's office to kind of go.

Through the Legislature, the Bill is written or the act is clear about what you need to focus on. So if you're going to change that, then it has.

You have to change the law.

Understood. I hear what you're saying and we'll definitely look into it to make sure that we're doing it right. And if it does need to be changed, we will or work through it.

Okay. So there's no way that you can get administrative help either from the governor's office or DLE in regards to Bill tracking.

Some of that, yes, for the Bill tracking. But it also goes into outreach, materials, developing and executing websites, communications plans to be able to. Not outreaching and communicating what as we. Go through and identify our pro. The.

The programs from the state fire marshals, Wildfire education, community risk. Do you think you should establish that first before you hire somebody to go and promote it?

Yes, but having those. Some of them are already ingrained and taking those on from the state fire counselor, bringing them back into the state realm and building upon those.

So. Okay. Well, I guess it would be interesting to see what your program is before we start funding any kind of promotion of them.

Any other questions? One more table 16, please. Yeah, so the CIP lapses for the sheriff's division on Kave street near the airport. Can you update us on that?

And what are we facing here as far as the lapse? So with that project, we weren't able to execute a movement of it. The biggest hurdle that we were having with that is identifying a new spot. We were able to identify a new spot at Enterprise Lot.

So even though we lapsed the four, where we want to utilize the three for planning, one of the biggest liabilities that we have is that our holding facilities do not meet spec, which means that we cannot be certified. The most simple thing is it doesn't have running water in the cell.

So that lapse was out of my hands. It kind of ended before I could get here. But the additional $3 million that we do have, we're actually already working with design and planning. And there is a CIP ask to help us get portables while we look for a long term home.

So we're kind of in a bridge situation because we need a true headquarters, we need a true training facility. And we realize that asking for those large amounts in a supplemental year is unlikely. So we're asking for small amounts to kind of get us through this period where we can give you guys a better plan.

Because one of the biggest things which the Attorney General's office will likely release soon is the OIR report, which was an assessment of the DLE to include a period when I took over. And it outlines like 47 recommendations that wasn't happening with the Department.

One of the biggest things is us not having a formal headquarters, which is, you know, and again, it's tough. But I think, I hope that people can understand that although law enforcement doesn't create money for the state, it actually does indirectly. Because if it's a safe place to travel, tourism goes up.

If we're able to make sure that our agriculture community is not getting ripped off, they can reduce product and we can compete with our mainland competitors. So I just hope that, you know, when times get tough, people can understand that there needs to be an investment in law enforcement.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Chair, One quick comment. Director. I just want to thank you guys. When we're doing that search warrant and all, you were in communication with the county police. And then I called the police chief.

They're Very appreciative, you guys working together.

So thanks for doing that and thank. You for help again. Yeah. Just established a position.

zero, done. I'm good. Go ahead. Actually, I wanted to know, is there specific information regarding DLE HPD sheriffs, where the line of duties are drawn and you don't encroach into each other's or you do.

Is there any written. There's no geographic mapping State. Anybody within the Department of Law Enforcement actually has statewide authority, which is actually different from the county. So Honolulu Police Department, the second the planes wheels go up, they lost their authority to arrest anybody. For us, it flows throughout the state.

So because there's no clear lines, it's just a matter of me having a high level of coordination with the area county chiefs. I put a lot of effort into Honolulu this year. In 20 or last year? In 2025, because they make up 75% or 70% of the populations on this county.

In 2026, you guys will see me establish strong partnerships with our neighbor islands. We already have requests from each county to work on that relationship. As far as areas, predominantly a lot of the support they ask for is around the airports, and we definitely want to extend that through the DOE and through the schools.

But of course that's based on me filling vacancies. And is it comparable then to what you are doing or what your assignments are as to your counterparts on the mainland or other states?

Yes. So predominantly what you would see in most states is that the major city police Department, so if you're in a major city, they would take on basically everything. And what the state does is they actually support in the rural communities.

So when you have smaller police departments of 20 or less, that's where you would see a sheriff or a trooper supplement them when there's an issue in their area. So I want to kind of mirror that. So a lot of times you won't. Well, minus the capitol area, because that's where they work. But you.

I really want to see my sheriffs in the more rural parts of the community where policing and staffing is short, because I may have said this in the past, but the counties will determine policing based on population density, which means if you live in sparse areas of the community, you don't have much police coverage.

And as we grow the dle, I hope that you guys will allow me to do staffing based on area and not on population. Because if you do it that way, basically what you would see in very rural parts of the state is you actually may see more sheriffs.

Than you would see county police. And that's actually the model on the mainland. Well, I don't think that's. A bad idea. I think for myself, and I don't know about my colleagues, is to understand where. Where the lines are drawn. So we're not. Or you're not stepping into somebody else's territory and.

Or you are, and we're paying for it and not the counties.

I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to. No, I absolutely understand. Is that are we going beyond, you know, are we stretching too far beyond. It's just hard because within the state responsibility, schools, libraries or whatnot, they're like these little kind of dots that are surrounded by county.

So we rely on the county to take care of it. But really from a fundamental standpoint, that's actually the DLE's Kuleana. We just don't have enough staffing to do it.

So what I want to really do is look at areas where there is a lot of dense state property, a lot of dense state responsibility, and making sure that the DLA is patrolling that.

I really do believe when you have tight clusters of schools, we need to be working as a state to make sure that there's a sheriff that is pinging between. So, for example, you know, we see Nanakuli. Why not asking for officers there? It's hard to fill, but.

But they should definitely be patrolling between those, you know, those areas. Moanalua has issues. You know, these. These schools throughout the state that are known to have issues. I do believe that we need to build capacity so that a sheriff is hovering within that geographic location.

Great. And that's kind of what I. I meant is that to make sure that we're helping each other, but not stepping on each other's toes and not that we're going to be sued or you're going to be sued for a wrongdoing that should have been HPDs or whatever.

And I don't know, again, I don't know how they do it on the mainland or if there's any state that has a written policy or whatever, but I think it would help us better understand that what you do is not just specifically state property, etc.

Yeah. Thank you. No, yeah, we'll work on something to give you guys a visual representation of where we can be expected.