Senate Standing Committee on Water and Land

Good afternoon. The Committee on Water and Land on its hearing Notice of Thursday, March 20th at 12:30 will be heard shortly as well. On this particular item. HB 511 House Draft one relating to public public lands at this moment.

For those on zoom land and the public, we will take a short recess while our Members of the Committee returns to room 16 for this hearing as well. We just ended our chamber work just minutes away ago and so we're going to do a short recess pending the arrival of the rest of the Committee Members.

Okay, thank you. The Committee on Water and land the is up and ready to hear. It's the first notice of hearing on March 20, Thursday in room 16. And the agenda item is HB 511 House Draft One and just some housekeeping measures. Those who. I'm sorry, is this DM? Oh, it's a hearing.

Hearing. All right. I do need to make this announcement. For those of you who are. I'm sorry. For those that will be presenting testimony on this measure.

Hearing.

We're going to limit the testimony to two minutes just to advise that the live video of this hearing can be found on the Senate's YouTube channel and decision making will follow after the hearing from all testifiers as well. We'll Continue. Members on HB 511 House Draft 1.

This is relating to public lands, provides that a survey of the land to be set aside shall not be a condition President to the setting aside of public lands to any Department or agency of the state. One second. Department of Ag. Good. Good afternoon. Thanks for. Thanks for being here. No problem.

Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Cedric Gates here on behalf of the Department of Agriculture. The Department offered its comments on this measure supporting the intent and asking for clarification on some things. You have our written testimony. We're here for any questions.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Department of Land and Natural Resources.

Chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members. The Department stands on its written testimony and support. Available questions.

Thank you very much. We also had sent communication from Durazo Tsuji DLNR. Kevin, is he going to be on zoom? Okay. On zoom that we were advised. Durazo, are you there? Okay. Hearing none. The Hawaii Cattlemen's Council. Nicole Galassi on Zoom. Aloha.

Thank you. Chair Enoy. Vice Chair Lafonte. Members of the Committee, Nicole Galassi on behalf of the Hawaii Cattlemen's Council. HCC is in support of this measure. This is an important piece of successfully implementing Act 90. Unfortunately, surveys are expensive, they take a long time and they may not be the best use of funds.

Seeing as how these lands are transferring between departments within the same state right now. There is currently a survey holding up an Act 9E transfer for Kapapala Ranch and noting that DOA has some concerns.

I want to point out that one option would be that would be a win win for saving funds for supporting food production, for ensuring there's continued land management on the ground is to fully transfer the whole lease over rather than splitting it up and only transfer part of the lease, which is what is currently necessitating a survey.

A transfer of the full leases would be most preferred by the producers stewarding these lands and it would also result in the most benefit for the state. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Brian Miyamoto, Hawaii Farm Bureau.

Thank you. Chair Vice Chair. Members of the Committee brought me a loan County Hawaii Farm Bureau who stand on a written testimony in support of.

Okay, thank you very much. Leonard Nakor on zoom.

Not present on zoom Chair.

Thank you. Tara Rojas on zoom. Any standby it. Aloha. Can you hear me?

Aloha. Is that you, Tara? Yes, this is me, Tara. So, Tara Rojas, you know I stand in strong opposition to this Bill HB 511 as it directly conflicts with foundational principles of constitutional law and property jurisprudence.

So first and foremost, Black's Law Dictionary clearly defines due process of law as fundamental fairness and adherence to established procedural safeguards, particularly those protecting property rights. By removing surveys as a prerequisite to land transfers, HB 511 violates these critical procedures safeguards ignoring clear legal boundaries and therefore undermining due process.

It is a maximum of law that certainty is a mother repose. Without accurate transparent surveys, uncertainty and confusion will inevitably arise, fomenting disputes infringing upon property rights and harming public trust interests. The bill explicitly attempts to shield state officials from judicial scrutiny and accountability through immunity, violating the fundamental principle that no one is above the law.

Furthermore, According to Article 14, Section 1 of the Hawaii State Constitution, public lands constitute a trust holding government actors accountable as trustees to uphold fiduciary duties. Eliminating necessary conditions such as surveys fail this fiduciary obligation and weakens the state capacity to protect the steward land responsibly. In addition.

Thank you, Tara. Time is up. Thank you so much.

Not two minutes, but you. Under Article 12, Section 7, the state bears a fiduciary duty as a trustee of Crown lands. HB 511 compromises the responsibility by diminishing transparency and legal accountability, threatening Kanaka morally rights on whose land you live on and diminishing public oversight.

Representatives uphold your oath to protect constitutional rights, preserve due process and honor your fiduciary duty to the Kanaka Molly beneficiaries of Crown lands reject HB 501 outright and we have the public. We as a people have the right.

Thank you very much. Tara. We have received five other comments or testimony in opposition. Is there anyone else wishes to speak to HB 511 House Draft One if not, Members will go into decision making on this measure. And that's rather interesting that this measure had no Attorney General's testimonies in the measures before us.

So unfortunately we can't respond to the comments made on Zoom as well. Just to add nit we will not go into recess. We'll be going into decision making on this measure.

I'd like to add that we will be making amendments to this measure and just to add and this came as well from our good colleague Senator DeCorte from Maui as well and I have gone through this recommendation and would like to offer and I'll read the amendments that will be made and for discussion with regards to Section 2 on the amendment to Section 17111 on the HRS, it entitles tiered survey requirement based on land type and the new language to be added in Section 17111 on HRSA will be adding high risk lands and these are conservation area lands adjacent to private property lands with existing infrastructure, a survey required before transfer and b low risk lands, existing state lands, agriculture lands under clear historical records Survey may be deferred provided that sufficient mapping or GIS data is available as well as the BLNR in consultation with the DLNR shall determine risk categories before any transfer.

Secondly, the conditional new conditional land transfers with deferred surveys there's a new provision to be added and this in quote if a land survey is not conducted prior to the set aside, the recipient agency shall complete a survey within five years of the land transfer unless an exemption is granted by the BLNR based on sufficient pre existing documentation or GIS mapping and thirdly authorization of GIS as an alternative to surveys.

A new language will be added in cases where a formal land survey is not conducted prior to the set aside, the DLNR may utilize Geographic Information Systems or GIS as we all refer to mapping, existing tax, parcel maps and aerial imagery to define approximate boundaries for administrative purposes.

Any GIS based boundary assessments shall be subject to review and approval by the Land Survey Division of the Department of Accounting and General Services, who we all know as DAGs to ensure accuracy and fourth, the state land register and digital records requirement. A new provision requiring public tracking of transfers.

A centralized digital registry shall be established under DLNR to track all public land transfers, including GIS generated maps, survey records, historical descriptions and all related documentation. This registry shall be accessible to state and county agencies. And lastly, mediation and dispute resolution mechanism.

The new language added to resolve potential boundary disputes and the addition will read if any dispute arises regarding the boundaries of land set aside under this section. The BLNR shall establish a mediation process for resolution before legal action is taken, and this process shall include consultation with affected stakeholders and, when necessary, review of GIS mapping data.

So, Members, my personal recommendation on HB11 is to add these new amendments. Any discussion? Yes. And this will be added to House Bill 511, House Draft One. And with that said, Members, any discussion on these amendments? Senator McKelvey.

Yeah. Thank you. I had concerns despite the goal, because I think kind of the cattleman hit upon what should be the ideal solution that's in another bill.

But I appreciate the changes that my good colleague from Molokai is making with the bill, and I know that she cares deeply about ensuring the integrity of our public land system as well as helping our ranchers. So I'll go ahead and support the bill because of Senator Coit's amendments that are included. The measurement.

Yes. And as well, this measure will be going to the Committee on Judiciary as well. And so, recognizing that Members Chair's recommendation on HB 511 House Draft One relating to public lands is to pass with amendments here. Any discussions? Hearing? None. Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes aye.

Chair's recommendations to pass House Bill 511 House Draft One with amendments. Chair and Vice Chair vote aye. Senator Chang. Senator McKelvey. Senator DeCorte? No, Madam Chair. Recommendations adopted.

Thank you very much. This concludes then, the Water and Land Hearing Notice of March 20th at 12:30 as well. Thank you very much for your participation.