Senate Standing Committee on Education

Good afternoon. Welcome to the Committee on Education. Today is March 17, 2025, it's 3:00 p.m., and we are in Room 229. First on the agenda is House Bill 110 HD 1, relating to local agricultural products, and to testify, Dean Uchida.

Aloha, Chair Kidani, to members of the committee. My name is Dean Uchida, Deputy Superintendent, Department of Education, testifying. We stand on our written testimony providing comments on this measure. The department appreciates this bill's intent to clarify the local food purchase goals and will do its best to meet the 30% mandate by 2030. Thank you.

Thank you. Next to testify, Department of Agriculture.

Aloha, Chair Kidani and members of the community. Matthew Loke, on behalf of the Department of Agriculture. We will stand on our testimony in support. Thank you.

Thank you. Next to testify, Kawika Kahiapo.

Aloha, Chair Kidani and members of the committee. Kawika Kahiapo with Hawaii Public Health Institute and Hawaii Farm to School Network. This bill well-aligns Acts 175 and 176, helping us to make sure that the measurements for reaching 30% by 2030 is manageable. We strongly support this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? Members, any questions? Moving on. House Bill 1293 relating to the Department of Education procurement. Exempts Department of Education purchases of local edible produce and packaged food products less than a certain amount from the electronic procurement system. Requirement.

Requires at least three written quotes for DOE purchases of local edible produce and packaged food products between certain amounts. Requires at least two written quotes for Department of Education purchases of local edible produce and packaged food products between certain amounts for certain schools in rural communities. Testify superintendent.

Vice Chair Kia. Members of the Committee, Dean Lucida, Department of Education. The Department stands on its written testimony in supporting this measure. Thank you for.

Thank you. Next to testify, Kawika Kahiapo.

Hello, Chair Kidani, Vice Chair Kim. Members of Committee again, Kawika Kahiapo. Hawaii Public Health Institute, Hawaii Farm to School Network. We strongly support this bill. This is another tool that the DOE can use to help get raised meet the 30% threshold. Thank you.

Thank you. Next to testify, Young. Not here. Next to testify, Micah Municata.

Vice Chair. Testimony is strongest. Important. Thank you.

Thank you, Micah. Next to testify, Bonnie Kahakui.

Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Bonnie Kahakui, Administrator, State Procurement Office. The State Procurement Office will stand on its written testimony providing comments. The $100,000 threshold is an amount that was agreed to by DOE in previous conversations. Thank you. Available for questions.

Thank you. Bonnie. Is there anyone else here wishing to testify on this matter, come forward, please.

Hello, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Cedric Gates, here on behalf of the Department of Agriculture. The Department stands on its written testimony offering comments on this measure here. For any questions. Mahalo.

Thank you. Anyone else here wishing to testify, please come forward.

Good afternoon Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Brian Miyamoto, here on behalf of the Hawaii Farm Bureau. My apologies, Chair. If you do not have our written testimony, make sure the Committee gets our written testimony. We are in support of this measure.

As with all farm to school initiatives, we absolutely support, we want to see the DOE achieve those goals. As you heard previous testifiers, this is a tool, again, any support and tools that we can give to Department of Education to try to reach achieve at least the first 30% goal and then ultimately get up to 50%.

And we'd like to see that higher. But again, we need to provide DOE the, the ability to achieve these bills. So we're in strong support and we will submit our written testimony if the Committee does not have a chair. My apologies.

Thank you. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? Members, questions?

All right, this is the Superintendent. Shall we try round two on this bill?

Shoot. Let's go.

So, so, so maybe you can give us better clarity of what you're trying to accomplish since the last time we heard this bill.

Okay. Well, we get. We put out a request for proposal. I think that we use the dods one and there's another one that we are called to supplement the DoD's mix that only goes out once a year.

So in the interim, if we find a product that we want to try, this would give us an opportunity to do it. We used the small purchase procurement to buy poi and it's like $25,000 and below. And it was successful, but we can only do it one time.

So if anything else comes up that's not on the vendor list that we want to try, this gives us an opportunity to try different products.

So this is solely using state funds.

Correct.

Okay. And these are direct to vendor purchases.

Correct.

So why can't you guys go through your current vendors and have them purchase it for you? It's not under your current contract. I don't. Because it's state funds. Right. It's not fed funds. State funds.

I don't think it's a product is listed in the current RFPs or IFBs. Why not though? Because it's a new product. Like, boy wasn't on the vendor list before.

But wouldn't you want to Fix that part first. The, the whatever. So you can have flexibility on meeting the 30. You know, your goals. Of what? Of locally sourced food. Wouldn't, wouldn't you write that more? Because again, it's a state funds, not federal funds. Correct. You should have more control over what state funds can buy.

So I'm trying to get an understanding of what, what you're trying to accomplish here.

If it's not on the vendor list, this gives us a chance to purchase the food item.

But what I'm saying is why don't you put it on the vendor list? We will. We're trying to. Now, we're trying to put FOI on the list.

But don't, don't you have control over that? How often do you go out for a contract?

We have to go to USDA to meet the requirements.

But these are state funds, not fed funds.

But to get it on the list, to get the reimbursement from usda, USDA has to approve the product and the ingredients, and then we can get it on the list and then we can purchase from that. So it's a, there's two different procurements. There's a state one and then there's the USDA requirement.

Right.

That's right.

So, but my understanding is state funds are flexible. The Fed funds are the ones that have to follow that, but you still.

Need to have the product on the list that the vendor is providing.

Okay, so, yeah.

So how long would that take?

They go out once a year. I said. So next time it comes up. We're trying to get FOIA approved by USDA so we can put it on the list the next time it goes out.

Okay, so, but, but, but, but aren't you start, can't you start thinking of things that you should be starting to put on that list?

Yeah, we are. Right now we're looking at the menu. We're trying to increase the amount of local produce we can purchase in our existing menu. Okay, so then you're good then. We don't have POI on the list right now, so we're trying to get it added. We find other products that we can put on the list.

We're going to put it on the next time it goes out.

Okay, well, I have to say you're not making a good case of what you're trying to accomplish. I think that that was the problem the last time is we just need to understand what mechanically you're trying to get to.

It just sounds like you're just trying to go around procurement and there's no thought process on how we're trying to put this all together because as I said, it's a state Fund. State Fund is supposed to be very flexible. If you're trying to meet USDA guidelines, okay, that's fine.

But you said you could purchase up to 25,000 already as a pilot. So you would think that, okay, that's, that, that should work. So then when you go in and get the approval of whatever you're trying to get, it should be within the plan.

So I'm just trying to confuse, I'm confused on what this is trying to accomplish. You think you're going to give me more tools, but it just sounds like it's just allowing you to do one offs instead of trying to put it together comprehensively.

Well, I apologize if I'm not communicating effectively. But what we're trying to do is we go out once a year to get the new product listed. It's passed already. And if something comes up that we want to try, this gives us an opportunity to.

You said you can do up to 25,000, so if in the 25,000 it's successful, then you know, you have to put it into.

Right, but 25,000 was only like a handful of schools we could supply.

Yeah, but if it's local foods, how many vendors actually can supply that amount?

We're trying to find out right now.

Well, that's what you're supposed to prove through the small purchases. You should have more info with it rather than just saying, okay, give us, we're going to give you $100,000 and you know, try, let us figure it out. You should, you should be able to prove that.

Because my thing is I'm not sure there's that many that can, can meet that, that demand that you're looking for, albeit statewide. Because I think, I think that the thing that I'm trying to make you guys realize is that when you deal with small farmers, you, it's very difficult to go to deal with the doe. Right.

And so you may not, you know, you need to understand what that small farmer, you know, mix is like and what will, you know, make them deal directly with you. That's why I'm like, okay, if you have somebody existing, if you have an aggregator that might be easier to, to make it successful.

I'm just saying, I don't know, I'm listening to this. I don't know if you have it thought out. You know, I think I, I thought a little bit about this, this area. It's just when you present to us. I'm not sure it makes sense in my head.

Well, we're looking for the companies that can provide the product on each island. And once we identify them, we're going to try to work with the distributors to make sure that they connect with the producers. So I don't think we want to set up a model where we're purchasing directly from the farmers.

We want to go to the distributors who can aggregate different suppliers on any island and provide this, the product to us.

Right. That's. That's what we've been asking. So that is this bill, what you need to allow the. Your aggregators. But this just sounds like this is direct. Right.

This is just a short term interim until we can get the product on the list and then we can start dealing with the distributors to aggregate the different farmers. Okay. All right.

Okay. So last time you told us that you would see if you could get it on the list. Right. That the contract might not have gone out yet. When did the contract go out?

I think it went out already.

When did it go out?

It went out in February. I think it was February last year.

You think it was February?

I'll get you the exact date.

Okay. We had these questions and you would think you would have it now because this is a similar bill and I asked that question to you, the Senate Bill. Right.

Okay. I'll get it for you this time.

Okay, so February. So in order to get it on and you're going to go back out again next February, Is that the plan? How often do you go out?

I think it's once a year, but I can check to make sure.

Okay, so if it's once a year and you already went out in February, is it good to assume that you're going to go out next February?

I don't want to speculate, but probably, yeah, probably.

Okay, so you can put this on the next list for February. You can put FOI on the list?

Yeah, once we get approval from usda.

You can put it on. Okay, so now you have this bill. This bill may not get into effect until the Governor sign it or whatever.

And so you're going to be able to put all this together and get somebody for $100,000 worth of poi to be able to procure $100,000 worth of poI yet in February, it's going to go on the list. So between now and February, why do you need this interim bill?

If there's another product that we want to test aside from poi, then we can use this bill to test the product.

But you can test the product with current 25,000.

But it's very limited on what we can. We can only do it one time a year.

Only one time. You cannot do multiple small purchases to different vendors.

Not for the same product.

No. I thought you said you want a different product. Didn't you just tell me it's for a different.

I'm saying if we purchase a new product, csm, you know, Limu. If we put a small purchase for Limu out, we cannot do another small purchase for limu at the 25,000.

Okay, but how many are you talking about? Every school year or forever?

One year. School year.

Okay, so you can do one small purchase a year. One small purchase for $25,000, period?

That's correct.

Per year.

For that product.

For that product. So you put out one for POI already, right? Did you put one out for poi?

We did one last year. I did, yeah.

Okay, so you did it. When. When did you do that?

I don't know exactly. I can get that for you.

Okay. Because you already did that. So you would think that it would have gone. If you had already done it, why didn't it go on to the February?

Because we don't have the USDA approval of POI as a. As an item we can use. They have to approve the dietary components.

Okay, so what process are you in with the USDA to get approved?

Working it out with them now. And the content, how long have you.

Been working it out with them?

The last several months we've been going back and forth with them to try and get FOIA approved.

Okay, so now you want us. You want this to go up because you might want to do LIMU or.

Or some other product that we don't have on the list right now.

So how have you been doing it before?

The 25,000 small persons, you've been doing that, right?

I mean, how many. How much limo can. How much limo. Farmers that do limo can do 50, $100,000 worth of limo.

I don't know. We haven't asked them. I'm just saying that this is a vehicle we can use for something. The limo is just an example. And I say we're going to purchase $100,000 with a limo.

But you're saying you can only do it once, right? So can you do. Okay, so if it's $100,000, can you do four small purchases for 25,000 each?

I don't know. I would have to check with procurement on that.

Yes. So. Right. We could do it up to 100,000. But that's the parcel thing. So if you do four of 25,000, we could do that. If we have 100,000 threshold, we would fall under that 100,000.

But you cannot do it for the same vendor, right?

We could do it for this. You could do it. As long as it's under the 100,000 total cap, we could do that. Yeah.

And the purpose for doing that would be what?

Maybe if we'd want to do a different island or if we want to do a different bunch of schools to see if it's just as popular within those schools or in others. Because as Senator Hashimoto was mentioning, we do want to see beyond just a small group.

We want to see statewide if we can find some of that same interest and that same desire to eat whatever that product would be.

Okay, so this is only to test. This is not for you to be able to continually use this vehicle, to be able to purchase over and over again $100,000.

Correct? Correct. It's got to be. So what we're trying to do is figure out what products might be popular or what. For example, maybe persimmits, maybe something that we haven't looked at previously. Right. Or. Or any sort of these. These sort of products that maybe we haven't thought about yet as rambutan. You know, Hawaii is very unique.

You know, a lot of the different vegetables that are. And produce that's involved here. That's why we also have almost all of. I think the produce in Hawaii falls under specialty crop because it's not something that's grown in other parts of the nation.

So we face very different sort of both challenges and benefits of being here in Hawaii.

Okay, so is this requires a report from you as to what vendors you.

We're happy. I don't think it currently does, but I think we'd be more than happy to put a requirement about what vendors.

You use, because it would be interesting to see the report on what vendors you actually sampled out and what you're doing each year with it. Because if it's been used for other purposes, I think that would raise concerns for me as well.

Totally agree.

Okay, Thank you, Members, for the questions. Okay, moving on. House Bill 1069 relating to education. This adds two voting Members that represent the Department Education and Board of Education to the School Facilities Authority to testify. Partner of Education.

Afternoon Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Dean Uchida, Department of Education. The Department stands on its written testimony supporting this measure. Thank you.

Thank you, Captain. You also Wanted to testify.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair and Members. Good to be back with you in person today. Capsun Poe, Executive Director of the Board. The board does stand on its written testimony in support of the measure and believes the addition of the board's voice to the SFA board, would help with the needed accountability, strategic input and oversight. Mahal.

Thank you. Riki Fujitani.

Thank you, Chair Kidani, Vice Chair Kim. Members, Riki Fujitani with the School Facilities Authority. We've submitted testimony with comments and are available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure, if not. Members, any questions. Okay, I'll start off.

Let's see. Riki, can you come back up. So the last time we heard this measure, the Senate measure, there were concerns about communication. What was happened since then, has there been more communication or better communication or what.

Right, so just to give you context, right, we have three programs. Preschools, Workforce Housing and New School Central Maui. We have one program manager. SFA is only eight employees. We have three employees that focus on those programs. Actually, two of the three are former DOE project coordinators. So they know the process very, very well.

They have monthly, twice a month meetings with their counterparts at the DOE on those meetings to discuss all issues. So that's all been scheduled. That's continuing.

So you've held, have you held a meeting after we heard the Bill. yes. Okay. And who showed up at that meeting? So for DOE, who showed up at that meeting?

Yeah, so for preschools, the first one is Heidi Armstrong and she's with the Ready Keiki Initiative. And she was there at the meeting? Yes, for workforce Housing, it was Deputy Superintendent, head of FTB, land person, project management. So they meet on that. And then for new school Central Maui, it's in full flight, actually.

We had probably four or five meetings. The last one was actually in Maui, with all the key principles.

So was there issues that DOE felt wasn't being addressed that you're aware of?

Yeah, not that I'm aware of. I mean, we document everything. Everything's been documented. We can send you that information if requested. Yes.

Okay. And who's current Members on the board right now?

The board Members are Harold Edwards, he is the industry representative. He's a contractor for design, build, Water. Jan Iwase who's a former DOE principal, and that's it.

But you have five Members, so three vacancies.

Right. So there were positions, but the Governor has retracted some of those. Those positions that were interim.

Okay, so you haven't Been able to vote on anything. How long have you had.

Right, so those positions were attracted last Monday. So we had three Members until then and we had our last board meeting. So in our next board meeting we only have two Members, but by statute that is quorum because it's the majority of the sitting Members.

So as long as we have, as long as they agree, then we can continue and approve measures, with even two Members.

Even two Members, yes. And what kind of things do you folks have to vote on.

Typically policy level things for what's coming up. It would be the next series of workforce housing locations, at least to start the due diligence process and identify properties for central Maui schools. Not much because it's pretty much in design and planning. And for preschools, pretty much that's being dictated by the Ready Keiki steering Committee. Yes.

Okay, so there's not much at the moment then.

My questions for him. Do anybody else have questions. I have other questions. Okay, how about DOE then. So again, can you tell this Committee what it is that you think having two voting Members, as I believe the measure we passed out last time was two ex officio Members. Right.

So what is it that two voting Members would accomplish or the problem it was solve, that you can't solve now? We can't solve with having two ex official Members.

I think because you're dealing with basically school facilities, the DOE would like more of a say in what happens with SFA and how they're moving forward.

So when you say have a say, what do you mean by that? Like, aren't you folks - aren't you included in the meetings where you can.

Right, but when the board takes action, I think DOE wants to be a part of that decision making, when the SFA board takes action.

And so what kind of actions have they taken that you folks felt that you didn't have a say in or needed to have a say in?

I think early on, I don't think we're aware of some of the projects that were ongoing and I think if we had membership representation on the board, we might have been more aware of what was happening before it went public.

See that, that's the thing I'm trying to get a handle on. You want to be more aware, but the meetings are public. You can sit on it now and be aware. Or with non voting Members, you can be there part of the discussion and be aware. So, you know, that's what I heard last time.

You want to be aware, but it seems as though. And then when I asked how many meetings you Superintendent, how many meetings, he only went to one. So it's like, okay.

we have staff at all the meetings. And then since the last meeting that the Senate had the hearing on, I've asked them to include us in all the meetings going forward so myself or another of the deputies would be sitting in on the meetings.

So how much more aware do you think you're going to be if you be a voting Member.

Well, I think that that decision making is what we want to be a part of. Not just the awareness, but we want to be a part of the decision making.

Okay, for the questions, members.

My question is for the Board of Ed Executive directer. So since the last time we had this meeting, did you guys have a presentation from SFA?

Yes, Senator, we did. SFA came, I believe in the February meeting. And I think there was a lot of robust discussion between the Board of Education and SFA.

Okay, and then did you take our advice of having it as a standing agenda item or you guys are not going to do that?

We were, but then we took them off the March agenda item. But I do think having them show up periodically on the board meeting agenda.

Why did you take them off of the March agenda?

That was, the board was going to consider, was in the process of possibly considering action regarding school impact districts. But SFA requested that it be removed.

No, no, but I'm just talking about a standing report from SFA. So there's none of that.

In its place, I think part of it was to honor the discussion and interests of what that discussion would have encompassed. So that was used instead to talk about school impact fees and impact districts sort of generally.

And I think a lot of issues were brought to top of mind for the Board of Education Members.

Okay. So the reason that I ask is, there is no reason to me why you need to have this Bill if you just proactively keep adding them to your agenda of the board.

So now that you took them off and didn't have a standing report, it questions, what's the commitment from the BoE side to start communicating with SFA. So you know, assistant Superintendent or deputy, you know, your deputy is saying that you want to be communicated to, but you know, it's a two way street.

You guys should foster that communication doesn't necessarily need to be just on a, you know, you're sitting on the board. But the question is if you have a DOE Member who's on the SFA board Who are they reporting back to? That's the question.

And so that's why I'm saying if you, if you really want to have that dialogue, it should be at the board level and you should have everyone in that conversation at a posted meeting.

So if you're choosing not to do that, then it tells me that you guys are a part of the problem and why do we need this Bill to fix it for you and you guys aren't proactively taking steps to fix that communication problem.

Well, Senator, then I think if we're part of the problem, I think part of the reason for it is and for the ask is to be part of the solution.

Right. The solution is why don't you just have them as a standing agenda item. Easy, you don't need legislation.

We can look at doing that. But again, you know, at an.

Well, meet me halfway. At least say you're going to do something. Because if you're asking me for this. It doesn't seem like you're meeting me halfway. You're just like, okay, yes, move on.

But I do want to make sure I make the point, though, that it's not just about receiving updates, right. I do think similar to the Department, the board also wants more of a say.

But the board, that's a good time for every single board Member to have their say at that point, right. At a SFA meeting, you're not going to have every single board Member giving instant feedback on any project. Anyway thank you, chair.

Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, I have a question for you. So it says the chairperson of the board or the chairperson's designee. Yes. So it's somebody that you're going to designate or you're going to sit. I mean, not you, but the board chair.

I mean, the current board chair is Roy Takumi. And I think from some previous discussions I think we've had here, I think his intention was whoever, whether it's him or a designee, that it would be consistent. That was, I think, your suggestion, Vice Chair, that we don't change it every time.

So probably try and be consistent with that.

So this person will then have the ability to vote on SFA. Will they be voting on behalf of the board of the BoE. They'll be voting on from themselves. How are they going to be able to run this on the board.

And is it going to be a board agreed that you should be voting this way.

I don't, I'm not actually sure, but that's not how I envisioned it. I did envision that it would be a representative of the board and they would have the authority to vote how they saw fit and perhaps provide updates back to the board of Education about what was going on at SFA.

But that the designee would have the power and flexibility and authority to vote without. Without really any restriction just how they feel they should.

And therein lies my concern because you're not going to necessarily be in aware of what that individual voted for before they vote. Right, Because I'm hearing this from DOE as well. So DOE wants to be more aware. They want to have a say.

Well, are they going to really have a say when the person that's there actually has to vote on something and maybe they're going to vote the way and the rest of the DOE might not agree. I mean I'm not again, I'm not certain how this measure is going to make them more aware of what's going on.

Which by having a non voting Member would probably serve the same way. Because again you're not going to poll the whole board to say how should we vote on this.

Well, I think Senator, sometimes, you know, it would be you have opportunity to have conversation, right. And you sort of know where people stand and perhaps overall what their values are and they're sort of, you know, heading in the right direction because do they think things are heading so how fast forward.

I probably asked Dewey the same question. Have you folks ever reached out to the SFA board to let them know about certain issues and perhaps like how you folks tell us, you guys need to vote in favor of this. You need to vote in favor of that. Please vote for this.

This is so we do monitor it, but I don't know if we've actually said here specifically the action we want to take. I wouldn't want to go that far and say that, but I do know we do.

Did you let them know how you guys feel on these issues that's on the agenda?

I don't know if there was a specific. I don't want to say yes or no. I can't think of a.

Issue that if you folks aren't communicating it then just because you have one Member from you guys board, that is going to be communicated as well because assumption is going to be that person is going to represent us. We've had representatives on heart. I've never known what they were going to do.

I never agreed with them on what they voted on heart on the city on the rail. Okay. Never agreed with them. And I don't think they ever came and asked us what we thought. They voted the way they wanted to vote. So I just doesn't know that this is going to solve that issue.

And when DOE had all of the facilities under DOE, there was a problem, There were problems. We had to move it out. We try all these different methods, and now we're at SFA thinking that this is going to solve the problem, they're going to all be better. And now it's not.

Now DOE wants back in to have control again. So I'm just. Yeah, I'm having.

I think I hear you. I do think, again, it's. At least from the board's perspective, the board sees that SFA's largest client is basically the Department, and that takes up most of the Board of Education's time. And that's why the board was asking for its seat as well.

Therein lies the thing. Why don't you have them on your agenda if you're the. They're your client.

Yeah, there are efforts, and I think Feister, I do think it's ongoing communication and engagement opportunities. You know, just because we didn't do once or one month doesn't mean we can't keep coming back to that and seeing when things can fit in and when we can have some of those discussions. Right.

I mean, I think part of what's needed is more calibration.

What's needed is ongoing consistent consistency, which you just proved to us by taking them off that that's not happening. So thank you.

Any further questions, comments? I do believe, though, Captain, that because this is related to the Department of Education and the facilities that they need, that it's important for the Department to have their voices heard.

And that's the reason for this measure, is to make sure that the board, Board of Education, as well as Department of Education is represented.

Yes, I think so. I absolutely agree with that chair. And I do think it allows more opportunity for conversation, alignment and calibration in all of our efforts.

Because at the end of the day, I think we all agree that the board believes at least that we have to build school facilities that our Keiki deserve and their communities deserve.

Thank you. Okay, is that the last slide? Moving on to SCR 66 and SR 44 requesting the Department of Education to develop and implement a statewide financial literacy curriculum curricula plan for public high school students. To testify cap.

Aloha again, chair, vice chair and members. Captain Poy, executive director of the board. The board does stand on written testimony supporting the intent of this measure and we do suggest and request small amendments basically to use board policy. Mahalo.

Stephanie Sakamoto.

Good afternoon, chair, members of the committee, Stephanie Sakamoto, on behalf of the Hawaii Credit Union League, I just want to reiterate that While we support SCR 66, we would prefer the passage of HB 619. Thank you.

Thank you. Next to testify, Tonga Hopoi Chamber of Commerce.

Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, members of the committee, Tonga Hopoi Chamber of Commerce standing in support of our testimony also want to thank you, chair for your leadership in introducing the resolution.

We do believe that financial literacy is a really big component to preventing the brain drain as we've seen throughout the years for our local students leaving the islands after college and after high school. So here for any questions and also happy education week. Thank you.

Thank you, Tonga. Next to testify, Dan Sanda.

Your sister could have come and helped you with it.

Aloha, Kidani, Vice Chair Kim, Members of the Education Committee. My name is Danson Honda and this is Phoebe. Phoebe is 21/2 years old. We are testifying in support of scr66 and sr44. I brought Phoebe here today with me because when financial literacy legislation was first brought up in Hawaii, I was just a little kid myself.

Today, here I am as an adult and recently a father, and we're still here talking about potentially making this happen. This binder here is photo of all the financial literacy legislation introduced over the years. To me, these aren't just pieces of paper.

These represent the voices of so many of us over time advocating for a more resilient Hawaii. When I first started fighting for financial literacy, it was due to my personal story of overcoming financial challenges to become a homeowner. But really it's so much more than just myself or all of us for that matter.

It's about our future generations and giving them the education that they need and the hope that they need that by working hard and smart that they can continue living here in Hawaii. So please, let's not delay any longer and let's provide the accountability and the resources needed to make this happen. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Members, question. Thank you. Next attested by Marvin Dang.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. Marvin Dang, testifying on behalf of VISA. VISA is a private sector leader in financial literacy and has developed the Practical Money Skills Program in conjunction with government agencies, educators and others. You know, this resolution is very important.

It's important because when high school students are able to learn about financial literacy and management skills, it will make them better prepared to face the economic challenges that they may have to deal with as adults. Thank you very much.

Is there anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Please forward.

This. Good afternoon, Chair Kidani, Vice Chair Kim and Members of the Committee. I'm Terry Ushijima, Assistant Superintendent with the Department of Education, testifying on behalf of the Superintendent. I apologize for our late testimony.

The Department is committed to expanding financial literacy education and has convened a literacy task force last spring in 2024 and has published an updated list of resources that has been distributed to all principals, teachers and complex area superintendents. We have also we are currently reviewing the vision of the high school graduate.

And following that, we are going to be reviewing the required credits for graduation. And we note that the proposed resolution does have some challenges in terms of implementation, staffing and funding. So to that end, the Department has requested an appropriation for a position dedicated to financial literacy to assist with implementing literacy. Financial literacy more fully.

So thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Members, questions? Yes.

We always come to the point that we're gonna have to add funding, which is okay, but where did he go, you know, teaching this in our schools? Where did it go? What. What took place at that over the years that we replaced it, what we don't have today, what you just said, because we put it.

We tried to get it back into the school, but what happened to it when we was going through. So that's the question. I mean, understanding is asking for funding. Don't get me wrong. It's a great thing to fund. At least we're spending a lot of money adding positions. Adding positions.

And then, you know, you guys doing with task force. So when are we going to be able to just use what we have?

We have been using what we have so far. And over the last three years, we have had people who. We don't have any dedicated person with that this falls within their duties. But we've pulled people to work together to create. To create and determine some financial literacy standards based on national financial literacy standards, which didn't exist before.

And we did convene a task force with the resources that we have, inviting different stakeholders. And we did come up with a report that lists the recommendations and even vetting, you know, an updated list of financial literacy resources for our schools. We've identified some free ones and we've talked to credit union partners.

We've talked talk to some vendors. There's newer things coming out all the time, and some of it looks really good. And so there's some options that are no cost to schools, and some of it is from community support. What we don't have is someone who is dedicated to facilitate this work and to move it forward more quickly.

We've also explored, you know, the personal transition plan that's in progress right now. And we've done. We're asking students what are some of the things that should go in that. And so we did add a question to ask students what's important to you?

And as we continue our work with the vision of the high school graduate, that should be the core. Right. Of what we want to produce. So we're anticipating financial literacy because we're hearing some of it already and we've been hearing it from the community.

Our intention also is, we know it's important for all our graduates to have basic financial literacy skills before they graduate. So once that's done. Then of course we'll include stakeholders in the graduation requirements because that's one of the recommendations that resulted from the task course result report.

And you know, the number one recommendation we had 11 Members support this and no one opposed it. Two were neutral. Was for financial literacy to be a fundamental core skill that should be embedded within the K12. And right now it is. But I think we have to update to see exactly where it is.

We have a list, but that's. We've updated our social studies standards since then so that would need updating. But the second recommendation, the graduate the Department should make financial literacy a mandatory graduation requirement.

That was tied as the second recommendation with a step by step plan to make it a recommendation but do it more gradually and incorporate some of the other recommendations into the process.

Why I bring this up and I came and I was interested all the students from my school, one of my school school I used to go to camp high school. I was surprised. All of the kids that came different times they came, went in over half of them was talking about that and the other half was transportation.

And it was really was really good to hear that we're going to try to do something like this because that's what they asked when they were sitting in front of me. That was the ask. So you just want to thank Senator Donnie and his Committee.

But yeah, and we, we would like to do more too. We're just requesting. Thank you.

Appreciate. Jerry. Question. So you've testified to us in the past that deal that the schools, some schools or many schools offer financial literacy as an elective, correct?

That some, some, yes. They. They have the option to do that about. I want to say 4 years ago ACCN code was created so that schools could offer it as an option.

Okay, so my question is why. Why are you going through all of this when if it's already been an elective and the whole request have been over the years is to put it as a requirement in the schools. So I don't understand why you need a dedicated person.

I know this resolution calls for a lot of stuff, but over the years we've just asked that it be part of the requirement in as a required class. So if you already have an elective, you already have the basis of what should be taught.

We do, we have that part. We have some drafted financial literacy standards. And the elective course, it's an interdisciplinary elective. So it could be taking things from social studies, it could be taking things from math. It could.

So when we came up with the financial literacy standards, that is a resource for any school who's providing financial literacy to kind of use that as a guideline. So you are covering things very similar to what is in this resolution.

But to make it a requirement, if it's a graduation requirement, it would have to go through a process and.

Okay, so what's the difference between having it as a regular course, not an elective, but not necessarily saying it's a requirement for graduation? Because if it's part of what you have to take, everybody would take it. Right.

So I don't know the difference between it being a course that's embedded into the high school versus saying it's a graduation requirement because it would be part of the whole overall graduation requirement. We've been asking for this simply all these years. As you can see from the folder that I've introduced measures for it.

Other Members here I could see. Yes, right. So. And then you go and you put together a, a task force. I don't understand because this is. Parents have called us, contacted us, we've talked to you folks about it. So I, I don't, and you have electives.

You just haven't pulled the trigger to make it part of the overall. We keep hearing you got to take something away. Well, you know, again, I'm not sure how us giving you one position because we don't give you a position every time you guys decide to add something to your. To the curriculum. Right.

It's that the. Our specialists in our office, they're at pretty much at capacity in terms of what they need to do. And so to devote the kind of attention we would need to, to move this forward so that we can.

The difference is, I think we would like to ensure that every high school student has basic financial literacy exposure right before they graduate. Right now. Right now, it's kind of if they choose to take an elective, they can.

So one idea that was proposed was perhaps if it is incorporated into an existing course, that might be a possibility. And so part of the reason for having a task force was to see not just okay, I think everyone agrees that financial literacy is extremely important.

Then why has it taken the DOE so long to even put something together?

So we have been trying with the resources that we've had.

Okay, the last question I have is you mentioned you folks ask students what they want. Right. You've asked students what they want. In the financial literacy we just put.

Out as part of our personal transition plan survey we first had. We went to some of our student leaders, and so we posed a question out there. I have not seen the results. What's the question?

I think I don't have the specific question in front of me, but we added it amongst other questions regarding their aspirations for future careers. What kinds of skills do they need to know, what kind of knowledge. But we had a specific question about financial literacy in terms of should it be.

I think it was incorporated as part of their personal transition plan, that is graduation requirement.

Well, I, I, I can understand you asking that question, but it's hard to ask a question to somebody who maybe not, not know what they need to know. Right. I mean, you have these high school graduates and they're not, they're not, I'm sure, like when I was graduating, what I needed to know as far as financial literacy.

I think that's why you're there. I don't think you asked them, you know, what kind of algebra you think you need to have or, But I'm just saying that you folks are the educators. We are the ones that supposed to come up with the policy.

And so it's great that you ask them, but I hope you're just not waiting to see because a lot of times they're not going to be aware of what are the things they need to learn they might not know about, you know, student debt and some of the things that are going on they might not know about the stock market and how to invest and stuff.

So how would they even know to add that in their, their answer?

I think our question was more General. I think they know that financial literacy is really important. Being able to manage your, your money when you grow, you know, get a job. Even if they may not know the very specific things like credit or, you know, how do you look in terms of making smart financial decisions?

Budgeting and looking at. Yeah.

As a high school student, do you know they get so much money they're going to spend it. They figured I know enough about finances that I don't need to take a class. Right. I mean, so I'm just saying that, yes. That we've been asking for this for.

Over a decade and I think that's the issue with the electives, because with the electives they would spend a whole semester just on that topic. I think in general, it appears that financial literacy having those skills is more of an interest.

Well, I think right now we need at least one quarter of financial literacy to start. And I think this is something that should have been implemented years ago and should be implemented immediately.

And I don't necessarily think that you need to go through A working group asking a survey and going through all of this stuff to be able to give them the basics on basics, at least the basics on financial literacy.

And many schools, I think, are. It's just that we are not able to say that every student has it before they graduate from high school. And that's what we would like to be able to do.

Okay, thank you for the questions, Senator.

So. So at least give us a timeline. What is the timeline that you're looking at?

I think the timeline depends on our resources as well. So that is why.

But if it's a priority, you make it happen. So are you saying that it's not a priority?

I think it has been a priority. So that despite this, not in anyone's specific, you know, responsibilities, we have found a way to create the standards to get stakeholder input and we've updated our resources. And even that, you know, requires time because you have to meet with people, you have to review materials.

And when we put something out there for schools to use, we want to make sure that it's something.

Okay, so, so, so don't do. So what is the class that everyone has to take these days? I think back when I was, you know, this is 20 years ago, was like we. Everyone had to take guidance class.

Right. Is that, is that still around?

Yes.

No, it's not.

What did that transform into?

It's a personal transition plan.

Okay, so it's not even a class anymore.

It is a half credit course.

Okay, so there's something there.

Yes.

So why don't you try and just get something in there as an incremental step? Can you commit to that? At least give us a timeline.

So, you know, respectfully, I don't think it's my sole decision, but at least give us. If I had a magic wand, that might be one thing that I might, you know, want to do, but it's.

Because what I'm feeling is you're just kind of saying you're doing all these things and you're kind of like, okay, we'll keep doing it and we'll do it. We're going to keep doing it and then we're going to be here next year with the same conversation.

So I just want to know something that we can say, okay, you, you committed that at least something will happen, something give us something.

I think with additional resources that we will be able to.

But, but, but that's the thing. Who works on the personal transition plan curriculum right now that that person should be able to do it.

So we have our office of student support services. So they work on that plan right now cross office. You know, we have someone from our office also involved. We have. They have people from other offices as well. So it's not solely them. But then reviewing that right now to see what else needs to.

Because right now there's variation in terms of how the personal transition plan is designed because the schools look at their school communities, their students, and they have come up with what they have determined as most appropriate.

I get it. I get it. So what I'm hearing, and just so you know, this is what I'm hearing is there's a lot of excuses.

Well, there's.

That's what I'm hearing, a lot of excuses.

Well, I'm sorry if it sounds like we're making excuses. You know, we do want to make this happen for all our students. And. And part of that might be through the personal transition plan it if we're.

I'm just telling you something that's existing. If you say you need more resources, I'm throwing something out there. And if you feel that that's not the way, then you go find something else. But I'm giving you an Ide.

And, and that's a great idea. And I think that idea.

But when can we get something that you think should be. You should be able to deliver something. I'm not saying a full class. I don't even know if you need a full class. But at least something that we can have to all students before they graduate. Like writing a check.

How many people know how to write a check? That every single high school student. I don't think I even learned how to write a check in high school. I think it was thanks to my 8th grade English teacher who taught us how to write a check. So. So something needs to be revamped with the curriculum.

And you should be concerned that people don't know how to write a check or balance a checkbook. That doesn't concern you.

I think they should be able to write a write.

I just had this long conversation. Who's my sister with my sister who teaches in high school. And we're talking about what are the life skills that people need. And it's not embedded in the DOE curriculum. And so I think your office should be tasked with.

With trying to figure out what is the relevant skills that people need and, and not needing to create all these excuses to. To get it implemented. I think I'm just. I'm just really frustrated. Maybe it's not even a result that we need.

Maybe we need to move the bill, because it just seems like when we come back here in one year, you're going to say, you know, we maybe we moved a little bit on our working group, but nothing has happened yet. And I don't want that to happen. I don't know what it's. It's going to take.

We're giving you the freedom through a RESO to implement this, but every time nothing happens, and that's the frustration.

Things are happening. I think we do want things to happen quicker and. And that has been our intention. And I know that it has not been quick enough. And given our present capacity, I. We have been doing what we can.

Okay. Well, I think if it reflects a priority of the Department, then it should. You can figure out how to make it happen with the hundreds and hundreds of employees that you have existing. And if it's not, then you will continue to give excuses. So I think that is the litmus test.

So if you feel that it's important, you will make it happen. So. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. I have a question, please. Yes. So do you have any idea how many other states require financial literacy? I would have to go back and check on that.

Could you please. Yes, we will check on that. Let this Committee. I think at one time we checked, but I don't have.

Because if they have financial literacy, what did they give up or did they extend the school hours? I'm just asking. We need to. The curriculum. Yeah, we need to look at this because this comes up every year and we are.

It is in queue for us to review our graduation requirements. That's part of our strategic plan. So it is.

And who makes that decision?

The Board of Education would have to approve it.

Okay, but do they realize what we're asking and what we've asked for a number of years? When you guys go over the curriculum.

I. I believe they do.

Okay, well, I'm not sure if what you believe is correct, but I'd like to know for sure. Thank you.

Two more questions, one for you. So you folks already asked for this position that you talk about in your testimony? Yes. So it was already asked in the beginning of the.

We asked the previous year also for the position.

Okay. Can we have Board of Education come up?

Thank you.

So the BOE knows that this is a bill and this is something that we have asked for year after year for, I don't know, decade now, I think. And what has the board done? Has the board passed a policy to say that this should be part of the graduation requirements or what what does the board do?

No, the board has not and I don't think the board has actually considered it. I'd have to go back and confirm.

Is there a reason why they haven't considered it?

Without repeating some of the reasons that basically I was going to mention some of the reasons that the Department did. The board has been, the board is aware and is more keenly aware. I think, you know, especially after this session, knowing how long or the history now. Right. That it has been for several sessions now.

So, so the board is aware and taking a look as far as getting movement, the board was tends to look at the PTP, that personal transition plan that Assistant Superintendent spoke about as the one of the preferred means to do it.

So have the board looked at look at it or you just talked about looking at it?

There's been discussion and maybe more an update perhaps by one of the committees. Usually that falls under the Student Achievement Committee. But Vice Chair, I think to your question as the board, you know, grab the ball and run with it, perhaps not that aggressively.

What would it take to have that happen? Because again, the board is well aware.

I mean, I, I, we've been sitting in these meetings for years and there's always been somebody from B oard of Education in the meetings and we've asked them what it would take to, to require it to be part of the graduation requirements or to be one of the required classes.

And they said, well, we have to look at what we're going to get rid of, is going to replace.

So I am just shocked to hear that you folks have not gone beyond a discussion that has not been something that you voted on as to whether you're going to add it to the personal, personal, what is it called?

Transition or because I know I had guidance class as well and you know, I'm not sure why the wheel has to be reinvented when you already have electives out there. There's other states that have adopted it. And again, we're not talking about, you know, literacy 5.0.

We're talking about literacy 101 or, you know, less than 101, basic literacy, writing a check and understanding about, you know, when you, when you charge something that you're going to have these fees and you're going to have late fees and so forth because I know my sister and my mom thought I just paid a minimum amount, you know, didn't realize it's going to take them 11 years to pay off the balance if they only pay the minimum.

But those are the basic stuff. And so I mean between the Board of Education and educate DOE, you know, you guys are the smart people with degrees. Come on. I can't can figure this out and we haven't done it yet.

I think, Senator, I should say then that you ask what it would take and I do think conversations like this to remind the board staff, the Department staff is part of that.

Okay, but we're tired already. We've had this discussion over and over again. We don't know what it's going to take.

Can you ask the board to agenda this issue for their next meeting and go as far as asking other states and counties whether or not they have had literacy required, financial literacy required, and if so, what did they have to give up or what did they have to do? What what was the mechanics of the whole thing?

Chair Absolutely. I can tell you I will take that back to the either the board chair or the appropriate Committee chair to see what might be able to get scheduled. Thank you. And we'll take that. I'll take I'll definitely take that back.

Thank you, Captain, for the questions. Comments yeah. If we have a bill, new bill passed, what would you folks do?

I I well, Vice Chair, if if it is the prerogative and decision of the Legislature, of course we would have to comply.

So why aren't you passing a bill? Well, for me, the reason why is I don't know what they would have to give up. That's that's the hard part to the personnel or add it to the time frame of school. And you know, I'm just saying there's a lot of other things we just.

Heard that it could be added to that personal transition without giving up anything. But I think unless we get serious about it, it's not going to happen. We've seen that with I think when.

The board does consider it, Vice Chair the board does also take into account some of the messaging that needs to go out to the schools. I mean it is a large system. So we do try the board does try and take that into account. But, but I, as I said to chair, I will definitely take that back.

Thank you.

Anyone else here wishing to provide testimony, if not recess, reconvening the Committee on education? So Committee has been in discussion and the recommendation is for House Bill 110 HD1 to pass with amendments and we will reflect the date to July 1st, 2050.

Okay. If there's no discussion, House Bill 110 House Draft 1 passed with amendments. Chair Kidani?

Aye.

Vice Chair votes aye. Senator Hashimoto?

Aye.

Senator Kanuha?

Aye.

Senator DeCorte?

Aye.

5 Members present, all voting aye. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. For House Bill 1293 House Draft 2, the recommendation is the same. To pass with amendments and defect the date to July 1, 2050.

Okay Members, House Bill 1293 House Draft 2. Any Members voting no? Any Members with reservations? Hearing none, recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. For House Bill 1069 HD1, recommendation of the Chair is to pass with amendments. The amendments would be to add- to take the language of Senate Bill 1388 SD2 and defect the date to July 1, 2050.

Okay recommendation HB 10...1060...

69.

...1069 House Draft 1 with amendments. Any measure- Any Member voting no? Any members...

No.

No vote for you today. Any numbers with reservations? Hearing none, 4 Members voting aye, 1 no. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. And for the final measure, SCR 66 and SR 44 which request the DOE to develop and implement a statewide financial literacy plan for public high school students. Recommendation is to pass as is.

SCR 66 and SR 44, pass as is. Any Member voting no? Any Members with reservations? Hearing none, recommendation is adopted with five Members voting aye.

Thank you Members, that concludes the hearing.

Like to call the Committee on Higher Education and jointly with Education to order. We are in room conference room 229. It is 4:19. We're on the 301 agenda item and this meeting is being streamed lived on YouTube.

And in the unlikely event we have to abruptly end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the Committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on Tuesday.

That's tomorrow in room 2 to 9 at 3pm. Our first item on the agenda and only item on the agenda is House Bill 549, House Draft 3, relating to early Learning Apprenticeship Grant Program and this establishes an Early Learning Apprenticeship Grant program to be administered by the University of Hawaii and here to testify on the that measure is.

Let's see Yuko Cross Arikawa Cross We're Early Learning, Office of Early Learning Hi.

Chair Kim and Chair Kirani. I'm Yuko Arikawa Cross, Director of the Executive Office on Early Learning. We stand on our written testimony in support and we defer to the University of Hawaii on implementation and funding.

Early Learning Registered Apprenticeship programs provide aspiring early childhood professionals with structured hands on experience, employer paid classroom learning and comprehensive support to advance their careers. Many people entering the early learning field are non-traditional students who really benefit from the additional wraparound support and mentoring included in this model.

By investing in these programs, we can address workforce shortages through recruitment and retention, improve compensation and benefits and strengthen early career pathways for early learning professionals. EOL welcomes the opportunity to collaborate with UH on the grant award criteria. And we appreciate the Legislature's continued investment in our keiki and their families. Thank you. Thank you.

Nathan Murata from University of Hawaii.

Hi. Good afternoon. Chair Kim, Chair Kidani, senator Kanua, Nathan Murata, Dean, College of Education UH, Manoa. We stand in support of our written testimony. I'll be available for questions.

Thank you. Thank you. Chevelle Davis.

Hello, Chair Kim and Chair Kidani. My name is Chevelle Davis with Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks and we will, stand on our written testimony in support. Mahalo.

Thank you. Chevelle. Michael Golu, not present on Zoom.

Chair.

Present. Okay. Vivian Ito, Aloha Chair and Vice Chair.

I'm Vivian Ito here on behalf of Early Childhood Action Strategy. We'll stand on our written testimony in support of this measure. Thank you so much. Terry Locke.

Aloha Chair. Aloha Vice Chair. Thank you so much for hearing this bill. I stand on my testimony as presented and if there's any questions, I'll be here to answer them. Thank you. Joshua Wish.

Hello, Chair Joshua with Holomua. We'll also stand on our testimony in support available for any questions you might have. Thanks so much. Great.

Thank you so much. Anybody else wishing to testify on this measure in this room or on Zoom or out in the hallway? Okay. None. Members, questions. I have questions for you each. So, Nathan, how would this apprentice grant program work?

My understanding is the funding would be coming to the University. University puts together the, the protocols and, and criteria and works closely with EOEL and the counties. And then the grant monies are then distributed to either the counties or the service provider for our infants and toddlers and up to age five programs.

Okay, so it doesn't actually go to those people actually doing the program.

It will because then each not training.

Them, somebody training them, or it's just, just giving money out.

I think it's. We're not doing any training per se, but we are able to provide the funding so that they can continue to receive some training and some services in order for them to maintain within the profession the training.

Excuse me. So the training actually will be at the community colleges. So the, as an apprenticeship model. It's an earn while you learn program. We're beginning at the community college. We actually have started one started apprentices at Honolulu Community College. We want to expand it to other four.

We have four early childhood programs at our community colleges across our state. So we want to expand it that way.

So these providers would come and take the. Take a call.

So the the providers would be the ones that would be hiring the apprentices. And they would be coming. Right. The apprentices will go take classes. How long is so currently for an apprentice to start the program and then actually complete it to get their associates will be three years.

Okay, and so this grant would pay for the entire three years?

This grant will pay. Yes, we'll pay for the three years for the apprentice. Okay.

Is there any kind of requirement for them to. What happens if they decide they don't want to be or like?

A service obligation? Yeah. So.

So in order to. So part of the requirement will be to retain, stay in that, that organization to work for several years.

So we. Is that something that's going to be drafted prior to that'll be part of the procedures?

Yeah. And so I do want to say that we have one registered apprenticeship program currently in Hawaii, one early childhood apprenticeship program and that has been already vetted by the Department of Labor. And so they, these, these providers actually follow what that apprenticeship model is. Okay. Which is a three year program and.

It has a service. Yes. And they don't do it. Then they have to pay back. They have to pay back on that. Okay. And so this. You just have one program now at HCC we have.

Well, we have one sponsoring agency and then their, their apprentices at HCC. We have some interest in Hawaii island at this point.

How many apprentices can. You're asking for approximately how much for this program?

Yeah, so blank in here in Amazon, right? Yeah, we left on a flyer. Yeah, you did leave a flyer.

Yeah. And what. What that flyer is based from our last meeting here. We decided to be a little bit strategic and present to you something less than what was asked for primarily. Also we have the some funding from the Castle foundation to help us so start. We wanted to provide that updated.

So what's that list? I know my staff that you're going to ask for this.

Oh that one. Actually they're just giving us a beginning amount. Well an amount about 40,000 to get started. And that would go to. Every apprentice has to have a mentor similar to other trades. Usually the, in other trades it's called a journey worker.

Right. But what's the ask? What's the ask for? To the ledge. What is the ask?

Okay, so.

It's changed from the, on the back.

Yeah. So initially it asked for about twice as much, but right now we're asking for 7.6 the first year and. 7.6 million? Yes. Part of the reason why this is that amount is because this also has a wage supplement program. So the providers would be able to also increase.

Do some wage supplements for their existing staff so they can participate in the wage structure that's within the apprenticeship model.

So what are you folks doing now for that one class that you have, the one apprenticeship? What about that? How are you paying for that?

That one is being paid for through some existing funds that the sponsoring agency has right now.

And how much is that?

I. I don't. I really don't know.

Because 7 million is a lot in this time right now. So what would be the minimum you can run? You know, run a program that could be statewide? Not quite sure where the greatest need is at this point. Yeah. Because at this. I mean, I'm just trying to be realistic. Sure. Yeah.

We don't get any chances.

And we tried to be realistic and proactive.

It's not part of the, UH, budget, right? No, it's not. Right. It's not? No, it's not. So it's an add. So that means something's got to come out, out of the budget. Where do we take it from?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Well, that's something. That was something we can. Before we get as we go to conference. Yes, Members, Any questions? Other questions? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Members. Okay. The recommendation, members, for House bill 549, House draft 3, for early learning apprenticeship grant program is already blank. The amounts are blank in this bill.

And so the recommendation is to defect the date to July 31, 2050 and that we make technical and non substantive amendments. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes aye.

For House Bill 549, HD3 for higher ed. Chair votes aye. Vice Chair votes aye. Senator Fukunaga excused. Senator Hashimoto, aye. Senator Favela excused. Measures adopted.

Thank you. And same recommendation for the Committee on Education. oh, I'm sorry.

Okay. Okay. House Bill 549, HD3. Same recommendation for the Committee on Education. Chair, both side.

For House Bill 549. House draft three to pass with amendments. Any Member voting no. Any Member voting with reservations? Hearing none. The three Members present vote aye. Excuse. Oh, I'm sorry education. Okay, let me just go down. Senator Kidani. Aye. Vice Chair both sides. Senator Hashimoto. Senator Kanuha. Senator Decord. Five ayes. Recommendations adopted. Madam Chair.

And we are adjourned. Thank you.