House Standing Committee on Agriculture & Food Systems

Welcome everyone to the hearing of the House Committee on Judiciary and Hawaiian affairs and the House Committee on Agriculture and Food Systems. My name is David Tarnas, Chair of Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs. Vice Chair Poepoe is here as well. And Representative Perruso, would you like to introduce yourself?

Yes. Aloha Mai kākou. Kirstin Kahaloa, Chair of the Ag and Food System Committee. Today we're here with my Vice Chair, Representative Kusch, and Representative Quinlan, as well as Representative Perruso from our Committee. Thank you guys for being here.

Thank you. It is Tuesday, February 4th. It's a little after 2pm in Conference Room 325. We are here today for the purpose of receiving testimony and doing decision making on one Bill, House Bill 1246, relating to cannabis.

This measure establishes the Hawaii Cannabis and Hemp Office within the Department of Commerce and Consumer affairs to regulate all aspects of the cannabis plant. And it goes on, that's the purpose of today. I want to mention to those who are testifying request that you will keep your testimony to two minutes.

I'll ask you to summarize at that point. And if you're testifying via Zoom, please keep yourself muted and your video off while waiting to testify. And then after your testimony is complete, turn your video off and mute yourself.

And if you have technical issues on Zoom, you can use the chat function to communicate with our technical staff here and they hopefully will be able to help you out. If you're disconnected unexpectedly, don't panic, just reconnect.

IT will tell me, the technical staff will tell me that you're back, and I'll do my best to make sure you can finish your testimony.

And if there's a power outage here in the building or a network failure and we need to reschedule the hearing or schedule a meeting for decision making, we'll make sure to post appropriate notice so everyone knows. If you're testifying via Zoom, please avoid using any trademarked or copyrighted images.

That kicks us off of YouTube, and that's a problem. And please conduct yourself with aloha, refrain from profanity or any uncivil behavior. As I always like to say, it's okay to disagree, let's not be disagreeable. We're all here to help, Hawaii. This topic today is one with very strong opinions on both sides.

We have received testimony, 95 in support, 135 in opposition and comments from 11. So you can tell that this is really a, in many ways a divisive issue. It's got people with strong feelings on both sides. I would ask you to respect each other and listen to each other.

Please don't give comments or cheers or boos or anything like that. Please conduct yourself with decorum and we will listen to all the testimony. After the testimony is complete, the members would be able to ask questions of any testifier that they select, and then after that we'll go into decision making. So that's the plan for today.

Okay, thank you all for being here. So first up, we're. And one more thing. I would urge people take a look, if you haven't already, on the Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs Committee webpage on the legislative website. We have links on there for the information briefing that we held last week on cannabis, which is very informative.

I would urge you to take a look at it, listen to it. And we also include on there a summary handout of this lengthy Bill which summarizes the Bill and also has frequently asked questions as well. And that's a useful guide for folks who are trying to understand what the Bill does.

And we also included on the webpage the download of the information that was provided by the panel Members at the information briefing. And so I urge you all to take a look at that so that you can gather the most recent information on all the wide variety of topics from from the different presenters, including the latest information.

Well, that's enough. You can take a look at it and you can learn from there. I would urge you to do so. Okay, let's go ahead and start our testifiers here. And we'll start with the first up, we have written testimony from the Department of Budget and Finance with comments.

And then we have testimony from the Department of Commerce and Consumer affairs in person. Yes, welcome. Please introduce yourself and proceed.

Good afternoon, Chairs, Vice Chairs, Members of the committees. I'm Nadine Ando, I'm the Director of the DCCA and we're standing on our written testimony submitted offering comments on the Bill.

And if I may Director, I always try to ask testifiers rather than just standing on their testimony if they could provide any highlights, that way members and the public who are watching would have that benefit of listening to your highlights.

Well, our highlights as far as the written testimony goes, is that basically we're just pointing out that although it says that is this office will be under the Department of Commerce and Consumer affairs, it's important to note that it's for administrative purposes only.

We are based on the provisions of the Bill specifically says DCCA shall not direct or exert authority over day to day operations or functions of the office. And the this clear separation ensures that this cannabis and hemp office operates independently. And it's the provisions of the Bill, I think make it very clear that that's the case.

So it's our involvement in it as I understand it, is only to make it so that it's administratively attached to a department in the state.

The other point that was raised in our written testimony was the concern that there a notion that financial institutions across the country have, you know, have hesitancy about opening accounts because there are still federal penalties. This is something that is not legalized across the country.

And so there's a concern I think, that financial institutions will not be, will be limited in their involvement with regard to accounts generated from the industry. That's it.

Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Next we have testimony from the Attorney General's Office. Welcome Mr. Goff. Please proceed.

Aloha Chairs, Vice Chairs and Members. Andrew Goff for the Department of Attorney General. Our full position has been outlined in a report that we provided last session. If anybody wants a copy of that, we can provide that.

In a nutshell, if the Legislature is going to move forward with legalizing cannabis, it is essential that safeguards are in place to protect the public health and safety ahead of legalizing cannabis.

I would note that our Department recommended at least an 18 month timeline before legalizing to ensure that the agency can be set up, rules can be promulgated and licensing can be implemented. This Bill would shorten that to six months.

And I would just note that it is essential if it is six months, if you're going to move forward on an expedited timeline that seed funding be provided to the agency. As you'll hear from likely, D. Hurd, DCCA had issues other every other agency DoTax, they all need time to set everything up.

There's going to be a lot of Administration, a lot of hurdles to get an agency on board. And if the agency is going to be focused on that administration, you're going to have to outsource in some capacity some of the other elements to implement.

So it's essential that funding be provided and not only to draft regulations and implementing the licensing, but also to make sure that a public health education campaign be implemented prior to legalization as soon as possible and to provide funding for social equity applicants to ensure better compliance and to give them support in the nation stages of legalization.

And I would also note that my Department has pointed out there are a couple issues with the Bill related to the penal code. There are there is a statutory prohibition on driving with an open container, but that includes an exception for passengers. And we would just note that that could defeat the purpose.

If somebody's driving with an open container, driving with paraphernalia, they could just pass it to the passenger. We've noted some amendments that we would recommend. And also the Bill decriminalizes possession of certain amounts of cannabis.

Now, that is in keeping with what would be allowed for adult use, but that would essentially reduce a penalty for someone that is under 21 to a $25 fine.

We have recommended language that would enable the court to for somebody who's under 21 who's found with substantial amount of cannabis, they can be referred to a substance abuse counselor or for substance abuse assessment. That's all we have. But I'm available for questions if you have any.

Thank you, Mr. Goff. Next, we have testimony from the Department of Agriculture in support. I refer Members to the written testimony. Welcome, please introduce yourself and proceed.

Yeah. Aloha Chairs, Vice Chairs and Members of the committees. Leo Obaldo, Administrator Quality Assurance Division. Testifying on behalf of the Department of Agriculture. We stand on our written testimony and support or supporting a one plant, one agency approach and offering comments.

And basically the comments is that currently we have authority under HRS 150A regulating the importation and movement of cannabis plant and we would like we have some suggestions in our testimony and move that to the appropriate agency. I'm available for questions if you have any.

Thank you very much. Next, we have testimony from the Department of Human Resources Development. Not here on Zoom. Brennan Hashimoto. Nope, not present. I refer Members to the written testimony with comments. Next, we have testimony with comments from the Department of Taxation. Not present for Members to the written testimony of comments. Next, the Department of Health.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. I'm Linh-Vi Le. I'm acting program manager for the Office of Medical Cannabis Control and Regulation. We stand on our written testimony offering comments. The Department of Health appreciates that the Bill protects, prioritizes public health protections and its strong regulatory framework.

Despite this, the Department remains highly concerned about the public health impacts with increased access to cannabis through adult use. These include increased mental health and substance use disorders, risks to fetal and newborns, when cannabis is used during pregnancy or breastfeeding, and the impact on the brain, the developing brain, of youth and young adults.

Although the data show a decline in use of cannabis in states that have transitioned to adult use, data also show in Colorado that there has been an increased intensity in use among youths, which increases their risk of Suicidal thoughts and psychosis.

Again, the Department appreciates the bill's extensive support for public health protections for the education and for substance abuse treatment. Should the Legislator choose to pass the legislation, we would like to request a delayed effect date of 12 months to allow for adequate time to adopt the rules and transfer personnel and assets. Thank you.

And we will be here to answer any of your questions.

Thank you very much, Dr. Le. Next we have testimony from the Office of the Public Defender, former Representative Ganaden.

Hey, welcome. Good afternoon, Chair Kahaloa, Chair Tarnas. My name is Sonny Ganaden, Deputy Public Defender. Ordinarily I stand on my testimony, but I feel like I'd be enjoined to testify anyways. Essentially, the Office of the Public Defender supports this Bill.

However, we do take issue with the portion of the Bill that discusses operating a motor vehicle under the influence of Marijuana or Marijuana product.

We believe that is more than adequately covered by Hawaii Statutes 291E61A2, which states is illegal to operate a vehicle while under the influence of any drug that impairs a person's ability to operate the vehicle in a careful and prudent manner. We believe it more than adequately covers this.

There's decades of case law and practice by local attorneys who discuss this. There's no need to create new crimes associated with carrying of marijuana or marijuana products if the goal of this Bill is to legalize a personal use of the drug.

Part 4 also seems to borrow language from Hawaii Revised Statutes 291-3.3 regarding open containers having to do with alcohol. But as many people know, marijuana is transported differently from alcohol. There's no sealed sort of carrier from a manufacturer. Some call them roaches, half used joints. A lot of people have them in their possession.

Similarly, we believe there's no need to create new crimes regarding tetrahydrocannabinol for its use by individuals under 21 in this statute. We believe that if the goal of this Bill is to decriminalize possession small amounts, then the creation of new crimes complicates that intent.

Of course, if the Legislature wishes to respond to community or law enforcement concerns regarding the personal use of marijuana, then that should be done in a separate, less complicated Bill. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony from the Honolulu Police Department.

Aloha Chair and Committee Members. I'm Captain Jerome Pacarro of the Honolulu Police Department. The Honolulu Police Department opposes House Bill 1246 in regards to public safety, specifically the access to cannabis and its possible diversion. I will stand by Our testimony. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next, we have testimony from the Department of Prosecuting Attorneys Steve Alm, Honolulu. If you would please stand at the rostrum, sir.

Good afternoon. Chair Tarnas and Chair Kahaloa, Vice chairs, Members of the Committee, I'm Steve Alm, Honolulu prosecutor. We stand in strong opposition to House Bill 1246.

I realize this is a very difficult issue for people to deal with because for some adults it is recreational and they may be thinking their high school days joints were 3 or 4% THC 30 years ago.

When I was a U.S attorney and a judge for 15 years, I was mostly focused on methamphetamine and alcohol because they cause people the most problems. But in the last couple of years, I've done a lot of research and the drug, the marijuana of today, is nothing like it was in the past. And I'm especially concerned for our Keiki.

What kind of message will we be sending to them if we legalize marijuana and give the societal stamp of approval. You'll be telling our kids that Marijuana is safe or it wouldn't be legal. That's what they will see.

And there are many harms associated with it, including psychiatric disorder, chronic vomiting, impaired cognitive and memory functions, increased calls to poison centers because kids are going to get to edibles, no question. I don't think our homeowners are any more responsible than anyone else around the country. And they've all seen these huge increases in poison calls.

The harms are worsened by increase in marijuana use. In 20002.3 million Americans reported daily or near daily use. In 2022, that number was up to 17.7 million. There are now more daily marijuana users than there are alcohol, daily alcohol users. A big part of the problem is the potency.

As I said back in the day, it was 3%, so it didn't have the kind of impacts it does now.

Stores now typically are 20 to 40% THC constraints over 95 and research that just came out in November, a meta analysis by folks from Harvard and Johns Hopkins looked at marijuana use in the states that have legalized and they found that for 12 to 17 year olds, that use was up 13%.

For 18 to 25 year olds, it was up 22%.

If you could summarize, please.

Yep. And following Pareto principles, like with alcohol. The daily users are going to account for 80% of the Marijuana that's purchased in this country. And if we they're going to be the ones doing the tax revenue.

So do we really want to be in the addiction for Profit business, because that's what's going to drive our marijuana buys and that's what's going to drive the taxes. Do we want to teach our kids that for a few extra tax dollars? I hope not. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony from the Maui Prosecutor's Office in opposition. Next we have testimony with comments from the Tax foundation of Hawaii, Mr. Yamachika on Zoom. Please proceed.

Good afternoon, Chair, Members of the Committee, this is Jade McMillen on behalf of the Tax Foundation for Tom Yamachika. We've submitted some comments on the measure.

Our comments are related to the section that would include a new chapter for Hawaii cannabis tax law that would include a 14% tax on retail sale of cannabis and a 4% on retail sales of medical cannabis. And then that tax would be in addition to any other taxes.

So our comments basically outline the question being, you know, what is the purpose of the tax? Being that if the goal is to make the use cost prohibitive, then why are we legalizing it?

And then if the policy choice is to legalize, then it should be sufficient just to talk that like any other business, what would be the need for additional taxes? Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony from Abby Simmons, Stonewall Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii. Testimony from indivisible Hawaii, the Kupuna Caucus and that's in support. The Kupuna Caucus of the Democratic Party, Hawaii in support. Next we have testimony from Alan Johnson, the Hawaii Substance Abuse Coalition. Please.

All right. Aloha Chairs, Vice Chairs, distinguished Members. I'm Alan Johnson from the Hawaii Substance Abuse Coalition. AFSAC opposes this Bill for legalization until a prevention program could be implemented first, and here's why. There's General agreement that cannabis use is not healthy for young people. The cannabis effect on kids is much different than adults.

Less harm for adults, more harm for kids. Their brains are still developing and can suffer from the loss of IQ with impairments in reasoning, judgment and emotional balance. These impairments can last for decades.

So just when they need those brain functions the most for getting jobs, having relationships and raising a family, they have impairments even into their 40s. Moreover, cannabis use in children can be scary too, because some have developed schizophrenia. And, well that's some too many. And no one wants that for their kids.

The evidence is clear that there is a growing trend that youth perceive cannabis to be safe, which is a major health concern. Once they are adults with fully developed brains, they can make their own decisions. They can decide what to do. But as kids with developing brains, this is serious.

HSAC agencies believe that Hawaii has a responsibility of the community to pre warn our youth and inform parents before for legalization.

We want to have a running start, not a hope to catch up afterwards which other states have said it was a problem because it took a while for their prevention programs to get going after legalization and they said that's one of their major regrets. So that's we want funding before, not after tied into revenue.

So we asked for community support to help us to build an informational campaign to prevent kids from using and inform parents and build supportive coalition efforts which takes time to build, expand prevention and increase treatment before legalization. And so that's our opposition is we want to do something before.

So we thank you for this opportunity to testify and aloha.

Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Next we have testimony in opposition from Hina Mauka. Testimony support from medical cannabis advocates Maui and and next testimony in opposition from Hawaiian Island's Republican women Ms. Detwiler, please proceed.

Good afternoon Chairs, Vice Chairs and Members of the Committee. I'm Jamie Detwiler from the Hawaiian Islands. Republican women. We are in strong opposition to HB 1246. I want to make it clear that we do support the use of medical cannabis. However, we do not support the use of non-medical or otherwise known recreational cannabis.

HB 1246 cites that many states have witnessed substantial benefits and I see it mostly in the area of generated revenue which has already been talked about here through taxes, licensing fees, et cetera. However, the Bill also goes on to support nine full time positions and an administrator appointed by the Governor which is another unelected bureaucrat.

It also asks for funds for public safety grants. This is just more and more taxpayer dollars. More layers of government bureaucracy and taxpayer money will be awarded to non-government organizations to try to manage and support.

I'm sorry, we've lost your audio. You want to unmute yourself. No, we cannot hear you.

I'm sorry, we cannot hear you. Nothing at our end. I'm sorry, it's nothing at our end. So I apologize. But we have received your testimony. It's clear that you're in opposition. Ms. Detwiler, unfortunately we're going to need to move on since we cannot hear you.

But if you could maybe log off and log back on again and then see if it works and then I'll try to come back to you. I apologize, but it sounds like it's at your end, but thank you. So let's move on to the next that is doctors we have testimony from Doctors for Drug Policy Reform. Dr. Adinoff on Zoom. Please, proceed.

My name is Bryon Adinoff. I'm an addiction psychiatrist, neuroscientist, and advocate. I publish and spoken widely on the biological effects and treatment of addictive disorders and am editor of the American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse.

I'm also the president of Doctors for Drug Policy Reform, D4DPR, a group of several hundred physicians, other medical professionals, and scientists advocating for evidence based drug policies and best practices that advance public health. Our organization supports HB 1246. I hope you will also refer to the somewhat longer version of my testimony that was submitted.

As health professionals and scientists, we would like to emphasize some specific aspects of the bill that would support public health. Specifically, D4DPR has spoken out regarding the dangers of unregulated hemp derived semisynthetic intoxicating cannabinoids. HB 1246 will set up a uniform regulatory system to assure that all intoxicating cannabinoids will be regulated.

A universal product symbol recognized by National Consensus Standard Organization will identify intoxicating cannabinoids. Also, laboratory testing, public education, childproof packaging, absence of cartoons in advertising, and investing in public health are all commendable aspects of the bill.

As the BAS literature now supports the finding that adolescents in cannabis legal states use less cannabis than either prior to cannabis legalization or compared to kids in non legal states, the proposed bill will benefit the health of children in Hawaii.

It is D4DPR's fervent belief that the legalization of adult use cannabis generally enhances rather than harms the public health of Hawaiians. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony and support from the Democratic Party of Hawaii Education Caucus. Next, testimony in opposition from Retail Merchants of Hawaii. Tina Yamaki on Zoom, not present. I refer members to their written testimony. Next, we have testimony support from Jennifer Martin, Cultivation Sector Consulting.

Next, we have testimony in opposition from Eva Andrade, Hawaii Family Forum. Welcome. Good to see you.

Aloha, chair, vice chair, members of the committee, thank you so much for allowing the community to participate. You have, I'm Eva Andrade, I'm the president of Hawaii Family Forum.

We have our testimony in opposition and really the biggest thing that we want to bring up is of course we're concerned about what's going to happen to the wider community should we go down this road. And we're not just pulling things out of the hat.

In fact, just yesterday, the Honolulu Star Advertiser had, talking about vaping with our youth. They talked about how middle schoolers have increased the use of vaping from 6.7% to 10.3%.

So until we can figure out how to keep vaping out of the hands of kids, I think that trying to open the door to something this big is just the wrong way for us to go right now. So, thank you so much.

Thank you very much, Ms. Andrade. Next. Okay, Ms. Detwiler, let's go back to you now so you can finish your testimony. Please proceed.

Can you hear me now?

Yes, we can.

Okay, great. I'll pick up where I left off. I was just about to go into. Let's just look at Colorado for real life documentation of what legalizing cannabis has done to their community. It's presented a danger to their community.

And let me remind everyone that under federal law, non hemp cannabis is an illegal drug and is classified as a Schedule 1 controlled substance. The prevalence of Marijuana in combination and Marijuana in combination with other drugs identified by the Colorado State Patrol officers has severely impacted and increased the DUI instances in their state.

It's created a number of snowball effect problems that have gone on in their community, increased traffic fatalities. Again, just look to Colorado for real life incidents that have occurred since legalization. There are health and wellness concerns. There's a significant rate of increase in Marijuana related emergency visits that has been already mentioned.

Ms. Detwiler, if you could summarize, that would be great.

Thank you. I would like to encourage you to think about the decisions you make today that will have an impact on families and future generations to come. Please vote no on HB 1246. Thank you for this opportunity to testify. Mahalo.

Thank you, Ms. Detwiler. And thanks for coming back so we can hear you. That's important.

Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Okay, let's move on. We have testimony next from the Marijuana Policy Project. Ms. Karen O’Keefe on Zoom. Please proceed.

Aloha, I'm Karen O'Keefe the Director of State Policies at the nonprofit Marijuana Policy Project. We support HB 1246, which would legalize and regulate cannabis for adults 21 and older while prioritizing public health, public safety, and equity. We urge you to also adopt the amendments submitted by HACR to more explicitly prioritize legacy operators.

When states started legalizing cannabis, some feared that youth Marijuana use would increase. But we now have more than a decade of data and the opposite has happened.

New government data was just released in the last couple of months from 2023 and 2024 from the CDC and and if you compare the data from immediately before passage of legalization to the most recent data, you will see that 19 out of the 21 states with legalization laws that are old enough for before and after data, high schoolers' Marijuana use has decreased, not increased.

I have a document that you can look at the number state by state. In the only two states with increases, the before data was from 2021, which was during the heart of COVID shutdowns which caused a temporary dramatic dip nationwide. HB 1246 would move cannabis sales off the streets and into adults only stores.

It also includes informational public health campaign for youth before legalization. Due to Hawaii's policy of prohibition, cannabis consumers either buy unregulated cannabis that can be contaminated or even laced, or they buy hemp synthesized intoxicants which are readily available in Hawaii both to children and adults. The Health Department's written testimony expands on the situation.

They explain that hemp synthesized intoxicants, I quote, "present serious health risks as they are typically created through chemical methods that involve solvents, acids, and catalysts. Poorly controlled production can leave behind harmful residual solvents, heavy metals or reaction byproducts, some of which may be toxic or carcinogenic."

They also note that these don't occur naturally in significant amounts, so there is, quote, "little or no research regarding their long term health effects. And there is serious concern that long term exposure could lead to negative outcomes such as liver toxicity, immune system suppression or unexpected interactions with other medications."

Ms. O'Keefe, if you could please summarize, that'd be great.

Sure thing. Regulated cannabis is far safer than both unregulated cannabis and these hemp synthesized intoxicants. I urge you to pass this bill to advance safety, freedom, and justice. Thank you.

Thank you very much. And thanks very much for participating in our information briefing last week. Next we have testimony in opposition from Care Waialua, Jason Hanley by Zoom. Please proceed. Is Mr. Hanley on zoom? Mr. Hanley, please proceed.

I'm coming in. Can you see me?

Yes. Please proceed.

Okay, here I go. Okay. Aloha, representatives, I oppose this bill in any form. My name is Jason Hanley. I'm the president of the Oahu Cannabis Farm Alliance which has over 1,000 members who are legacy growers, small businesses, and cannabis medical patients.

I own Care Waialua Medical farm, established in 2016 to offer medical patients a place to grow. Care Waialua has had over 4,000 medical patients as a part of their farm, all of which were approved by the Department of Health.

Care Waialua has also done its part by welcoming the anti cannabis community onto our farm to better understand the medicinal properties of this plant and how with the right regulations, it can safely be brought out of the dark and into the light, making our Hawaii community a safer place to live.

As we move forward with this adult use bill. I have provided factual data to the legislatures who lead this bill showing that any form of a recreational program has ruined the dreams of local growers and small businesses throughout all of the current recreational states.

Adult use has turned the state environment into an underground nightmare due to the high demand put on the state for cannabis products, opening a massive out of state black market that is harmful to the people. This bill also establishes added law enforcement that will truly put people back in jail and not free them.

And this sends the wrong message if you're going to truly legalize. So what is the answer? Well, we have introduced a couple bills this year, HB 602 and SB 1595. They didn't get introduced, but they are the Hawaii Medical Cannabis act of 2025.

If Hawaii wants a good cannabis bill, it must be a medical bill and it must be created by the people in a transparent forum that includes everybody. This bill has not been created in a non, has been created in a non transparent form. Meeting with legislators, dispensaries, and regulators.

Small medical farms and businesses can be kept in check through taxation. They will rise to the occasion to provide all the medicine needed to the patients of Hawaii, ultimately destroying a harmful black market. It's simple. The black market will not make money with a local based medical cannabis economy in place, fair to all the residents of Hawaii who want to participate. Law enforcement will not be needed.

If you could summarize, please.

I can. A simple system of inspectors replacing law enforcement with penalties of not being licensed. The war on cannabis will be over. Hawaii does not need an adult use program.

Hawaii does not need to cater to tourism to gain tax dollars. There are enough people at home here in Hawaii, that a thriving medical program could benefit everybody and bring the people of Hawaii together to care one another instead of fighting each other over cannabis policy. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Hanley. Next...

Aloha.

We have, aloha, next we have testimony from the United Public Workers Hawaii. Welcome.

Chairs, vice chairs, members of the committee, Kamakana Kaimuloa, Government Affairs Manager for the United Public Workers, UPW, you have our written testimony in opposition. Our opposition is based on the fact that this bill is problematic for our members. Pursuant to the collective bargaining agreements, for both bargainings 1 and 10.

Actually, any non, actually any meta, cannabis use is actually prohibited and for the legality of it will not change because of as defined in our contract, it's controlled substances which is regulated by the U.S. government. So thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Certainly. Thank you very much. Next we have testimony and support from Pride at Work-Hawaii. On Zoom?

Yes.

Please proceed.

Aloha, Michael Golojuch Jr., President of Prior at Work, he/him pronouns. On behalf of Prior at Work-Hawaii, we want to thank you for hearing this bill. We urge you to pass it. It is long past time for Hawaii to get on board with a legalized recreational Marijuana program. This will benefit everybody.

I do want to point out that one of the things we've heard and we've heard a little bit today, we've heard in the past is that Marijuana is a gateway drug. Marijuana is not a gateway drug. There is no science to that fact. There's no studies that prove that. What is the gateway to hardcore drugs?

Poverty, discrimination, hatred, and bigotry. When people are complaining about the numbers of Marijuana use going up, we need to look at what's going on in our society because we also see alcohol use going up during these times. We saw that a huge spike during the COVID. So we encourage you to pass this bill. It's long time overdue.

The benefits are there. We are not recreating the wheel. 20 plus other states have already done so and they are all thriving. We, Hawaii, just needs to do this. It's the right thing to do and we encourage you to pass this bill. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony in support from Rainbow Family 808. Carolyn Martinez-Golojuch on Zoom. Not present. I urge members look at the written testimony in support. Next we have testimony in opposition from Kauai Hemp Company, Judiah McRoberts,

Can you hear me?

Yes. Please proceed.

Thanks. Aloha chair, vice chair and members of the committee. My name is Judiah McRoberts and I'm the President of Kauai Hemp Company. Hawaii's largest certified organic hemp farm and CBD producer. I do stand on my testimony. However, I would like to highlight two of my biggest concerns as they relate to the hemp portion of the bill.

The proposed 30 milligram THC limit per tincture is far more restrictive than the Federal Farm Bill's 0.3% THC standard. This effectively eliminates most full spectrum tinctures and will severely damage most local businesses, hemp businesses here in Hawaii. This regulation would cripple Hawaii's hemp industry, actually making it impossible for businesses like mine to compete and survive.

I strongly urge the committee to align with the farm bill's 0.3% THC standard to maintain product integrity while also propping up industry viability.

Additionally, the hemp grant funding portion of the bill, I would like it to include support for equipment, infrastructure, and other critical needs, all which have been identified with the hemp task force report which came out last year. This funding is essential for farmers and processors to scale operations, create jobs, and strengthen Hawaii's agricultural economy. That's it. And I stand by for any questions you guys may have.

Thank you very much, Mr. McRoberts. Next we have testimony in support from the Democratic Party of Hawaii. Next, in writing. Next we have testimony in support from Hawaii Cannabis Industry Association represented by Tai Cheng. Welcome. Please proceed.

Good afternoon, chairs, vice chairs, members of the committee. My name is Tai Cheng. I'm the Chairman for the Hawaii Cannabis Industry Association. I'm also the founder and President of Aloha Green Apothecary here on Oahu. We're one of the eight medical cannabis dispensaries licensed by the state. I stand before you today in strong support of HB 1246.

I'd like to thank the introducers for working on the Bill and for having the courage to put forth this bill after the last couple years. I'd like to remind members of committee that dual use is actually very similar to medical cannabis.

The regulations, the infrastructure that's going to be put in place is going to be built on top of the current medical dispensary program. Medical cannabis, for those in the room who aren't educated on it, it is regulated. It is regulated by the state.

We are inspected almost weekly by Department of Health surveyors and all product is tested before it is sold. It is tested actually by a third party lab that is accredited by ISO and is tested for over 100 chemicals and compounds that are commonly found in illicit cannabis that you find on the street drug. Dried flower has eight separate tests. Concentrates have six separate tests. Pre rolls have seven different tests.

HB 1246 does create a framework that allows for the dual use of cannabis by establishing safeguards that addresses the concerns of many of those provided today, in today's testimony. Legalized cannabis is not unregulated cannabis and legalized cannabis is not my grandparents' cannabis actually.

They didn't have testing back then when they smoked their cannabis and there were pesticides and there were other issues such as fungus and mold that were commonly found in cannabis that was grown outdoors.

The dangers that are raised by our opponents today and by people who believe that cannabis should remain in prohibition are really in reference to the types of drugs that are found on the street and sold on the street by common drug dealers that are trying to sell it to our children and harm those in our community.

In fact, HB 1246 allows for regulation and taxation of cannabis. 24 states have already legalized. MPP has already shown data on how youth use has gone down in 19 out of 21 states. And with regulation comes education as well.

This bill gives an opportunity for the state to educate our youth and our community about the dangers of cannabis when it comes to drug driving, as well as its effects when mixed with other substances.

I could ask you to summarize, please.

Thank you, chair. In closing, we believe that the $40 million in new tax revenue that is expected in the first year of sales and up to 100 million in a mature market will be great relief to the state, especially now that federal funding to the states is at risk. Thank you very much, committee, and I'm available for questions.

Thank you, Mr. Cheng. And thank you as well for participating in our info briefing last week. Next we have testimony support from Big Island Grown Dispensaries. Moore.

Good afternoon. Just want to take a moment to say thank you so much for really having such a well written, comprehensive and fully flushed out bill. It's one of the best ones that we've seen and so we thank everyone for their work and to this point. My name is Jaclyn Moore.

I'm a doctor of pharmacy and also CEO of Big Island Grown, one of the medical cannabis dispensaries on the Big Island of Hawaii. I just want to say, you know, I've been here for almost 20 years now, practiced as a pharmacist in a local, you know, pharmacy, community pharmacy on the Big Island.

And what I want everyone to really understand is how important it is to set a standard for clean cannabis for consumers, people or patients, regardless of whether or not they decide to register with the state. What we're saying is that registering the state actually acknowledges you as a patient. What I'm saying is call it what you want.

When it's cultivated well, when it's manufactured with certain basic standards that we're talking about. I second what Tai is saying. I second what Karen from MPP is saying. When it's done within the parameters of regulation, we as a state can set that standard for clean cannabis. It's already here.

The reality is, walk down Waikiki, there are unlicensed operators that care nothing about the kids. They care nothing about Kupuna, who are and may be immune compromised, who have polypharmacy 7 to 12 drugs, pharmaceutical drugs that is, on their roster.

People, over time, it's not good to take Tylenol and Ibuprofen every single day for years for aches and pains. What we're talking about with the dual use system, and you can still have informed consent, which means you are communicating the risks and the benefits so that a responsible adult can make that decision for themselves.

You have the option for people, it's access. We simply want access for whatever adult decides they want to use it for whatever reason, they decide for themselves. I'm simply asking for the state, the legislature right now, to put very basic parameters in place. We cannot pretend like it's not.

We're not flooded, absolutely flooded with uncontrolled illicit product from other states' failed policy. It's here now. Okay? So if the legislature decides not to push this forward, that's a decision that you'll have to make. But let's all be very clear that it's a problem.

So when we come back two years from now, we'll realize how much worse it's going to be if we don't take this moment in time to do something now. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony support from LabGrown Genetics, Quintin Wilcox. Next we have testimony and support from Casey Rothstein, Green Aloha, limited on zoom. Please proceed.

Yes. Committee, Chairs and Members, thank you for the opportunity to give testimony today on this important matter. My name is Casey Rothstein and I'm CEO of Green Aloha, the Kauai medical cannabis license. Today you've heard and you will hear lots of reasons why cannabis should be legal and lots of reasons why people think it should remain illegal.

But let's be real. There's already a flourishing adult use cannabis market in Hawaii and there has been for years. It's called the illicit gray or black markets. For decades, residents and tourists alike have enjoyed Hawaiian cannabis which is some of the best in the world. They've had to turn to these markets to get it.

In recent years, loopholes in the federal farm Bill has allowed cannabis to be sold in stores under the guise of being hemp. These products contain the same intoxicating THC as the products we sell in the medical dispensaries.

And despite law enforcement's fearmongering about adult use cannabis, there are nearly 100 hemp tobacco, vape, and head shops openly selling these products across the state with no enforcement, no regulations, no testing or safety or packaging standards, nor additional taxes to the state above GET. These stores exist because the demand for the products exists.

If the Legislature fails to pass HB 1246, it doesn't prevent adult use cannabis from happening or expand it. You're not protecting the keiki, you're simply keeping the market unregulated, untaxed and potentially unsafe. The Legislature's failure to properly regulate cannabis won't in any way prevent cannabis use by the citizens of Hawaii.

It will just be a failure to keep those citizens safe by not properly and safely regulating an industry that already exists and will continue to exist. It's time to do the right thing and take action, not inaction. I implore you to pass HB 1246. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Rothstein. The next testifier said they want to testify is from the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network. Cynthia Au.

Chairs, Vice Chairs and Joint Committee Members. Cynthia Au on behalf of the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, or ACSCAN, and we respectfully oppose and ask for clarity for House Bill 1246. ACS can remains concerned about reducing exposure to secondhand smoke.

We appreciate that a mandate is to protect the public health and safety and make the highest priority of the Hawaii Cannabis and Hemp Office. The Bill has language that needs clarity that smoking and vaping of cannabis should not be allowed in any smoke free place, including places covered in 328J.

There is some confusion in definitions with smoke or smoking only applying to cannabis or hemp, rather than including a comprehensive definition of smoking to include all forms of smoking.

ACSCAN also urges the data collection on cannabis use to monitor the ongoing impacts of legalized cannabis on the use of tobacco and other substances, including alcohol, opioids, and to track psychosis and other behavioral health conditions.

We also urge the state to collect data on how engaging disproportionately impacted areas in the cannabis industry impacts health equity, including the impact of cannabis use, sales and cannabis business locations in these areas, as well as ensuring equitable enforcement. ACS CAN would be available to meet with lawmakers on specific Bill language that needs clarity.

I have like two pages of pages and lines with specific references. It wasn't included in my written testimony, but I would love to talk to the chair or other Committee Members about these specifics. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you very much. And you're most welcome to submit those additional pages as late testimony so that we would have them. It's up to you.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony support from the Hawaii alliance for Cannabis Reform Members. I refer you to the written testimony. Next we have testimony from Pakaloha Care Clinic. Abir Amirdash. Not present. He said he was going to be on Zoom but not present. Next we have testimony support from ACLU of Hawaii. Ms. Shirota, welcome.

Thank you.

Please proceed.

Aloha, Chair Tarnas, Chair Kahaloa, Committee Members. Carrie Ann Shirota, Policy Director on behalf of the ACLU Hawaii, thank you for scheduling this Bill. Our message is the same as last year.

We support this message measure and it's based upon the principle that individuals should have the autonomy to make decisions for themselves, for individuals to choose whether they want to have a cocktail or cannabis and without the government interfering. This Bill is about regulation, testing and taxation. And we as adults, this is an adult recreational cannabis Bill.

It is about giving adults in this room the ability to choose whether to use it or to refuse it. Second, we'd like to highlight why we support this measure. As you know, we support reducing the number of jails and people in our jails and prisons and giving people the care that they need in our community.

And so this measure includes a number of social equity provisions that the money from the revenues, which conservatively estimated 40 million or 50 million, could be higher that it would be used for programs such as youth services, including childcare, after school programs, treatment programs, substance abuse treatment for adults and for youth.

So we heard earlier that some people are concerned about not having that treatment upfront. But we can have this by using the revenue. And as has been mentioned, that in states that have legalized, youth usage has decreased in a number of states. I also want to point out the social justice aspect of this Bill.

If you look at the number of people in Hawaii alone that have cannabis convictions or even arrests, based upon other data, the Hawaii Criminal Justice Status center estimates that over 50,000 people in Hawaii have cannabis records, arrest count, non convictions. And what does that mean for them?

That means that they have the possibility of not being hired for jobs, for housing, for other life opportunities.

And so, at minimum, as part of this Bill, we would like to see social equity, but also social justice, that we allow people the opportunity to expunge their records so that they move forward in their life, but that we also stop the flow of people being arrested.

Today, you'll note in our testimony that we've heard at times that this is not really being enforced. There are still individuals being arrested and convicted for Marijuana or cannabis possession.

And we heard from a public defender in testimony that someone.

May I ask that you summarize.

Yes, that someone recently was convicted of cannabis possession for an amount that's the equivalent of a cigarette, a pack of cigarettes, and reported that this person was sentenced to 30 days in jail. Let's end prohibition and let's have sensible policies relating to cannabis. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony from the Drug Policy Forum of Hawaii. Mr. Leverenz , welcome. Please proceed.

Aloha Chair Tarnas, Chair Kahaloa, Members. My name is Nikos Leverenz, Board President of Drug Policy Forum of Hawaii. DPFH was instrumental in the passage of statutes authorizing the medical use of cannabis in 2000 and also the statute authorizing medical cannabis dispensaries in 2015.

We and other Members of the Hawaii Alliance for Cannabis Reform remain steadfast that policymakers should take an approach to cannabis legalization that generally avoids increased criminalization and is focused on building an equitable and inclusive industry in every county, reinvesting in communities and providing reparative justice. This Bill is a substantial improvement over what was considered last year.

The current regime of cannabis prohibition, like the larger drug war, compounds the harm of extensive involvement in the criminal legal system by Native Hawaiians and other residents from under resourced communities. According to Data from the April 2023 Uniform Crime Report, 7,457 adults were arrested on cannabis possession charges from 2011 to 2020. Cannabis prohibition also reaches children.

From 2011 to 2020, there were 3,817 total arrests. This is an improvement over the 5,760 juveniles arrested in the prior decade. However, it is over four times higher than the total arrest for violations of liquor laws during that period, 925.

So we hear a lot about cannabis being the gateway drug, but it's in fact, and I don't have it in my testimony and I'll offer it to the Committee via email. Here we have something called Alcohol as a Gateway Drug, a study of U.S. 12th graders from the Journal of School Health.

And let me read you the findings here. Results indicate that alcohol represented the gateway drug leading to the use of tobacco, Marijuana and other illicit substances. Moreover, students who use alcohol exhibited a significantly greater likelihood of using both licit and illicit drugs.

So they recommend here that substance abuse prevention programming, instead of singling out cannabis, should actually focus on alcohol.

So to the extent that this Bill can provide science based alcohol and other drug prevention in our schools, as well as give them social equity programming like after school programs to prevent drug use and alcohol use and to prevent violence, this is the way to go. And I thank you for introducing this Bill.

Thank you very much, Mr. Leverenz. Next person said they want to testify is from the Hawaii Christian Coalition. Welcome. Please introduce yourself and proceed.

Good afternoon, JHA Chair Representative David Tarnas, Vice Chair Representative Mahina Poepoe and Members of the Judiciary and Hawaii Affairs Committee. And good afternoon to AGR Chair Committee Kirstin Kahaloha. Oh, wait, I said it wrong. Kahaloha. Vice Chair Representative Matthias Kusch and Members of the AGR Committee. My name is Margaret Mejia and I'm representing Hawaii Christian Coalition. Today.

I strongly oppose HB 1246 relating to cannabis. These points are taken from statistics from states who have legalized Marijuana. There's a substantial rise in the cost of rent for Hawaii residents. As you know, drug dealers move into the area and they're willing to pay more money for rent. This happened in Colorado.

This pushes out local people who've been born and raised. Of course, we already have a big issue with housing here in Hawaii and this affects people of all classes.

Poor, middle, and upper class. Drug dealers move into states where Marijuana has been legalized and they bring a mountain of problems with them, such as prostitution, sex trafficking, more lethal drugs, including fentanyl crimes, and more crimes. These criminals come from all states as well as other countries.

And HPD is not ready to deal with all of these crimes. We heard about the supposed rise in income from for Hawaii, 40, anticipated 40 million in revenues. Well, I just wanted to say that if Hawaii wants to thrive, if we obey the Bible, we'll be blessed.

And I know a lot of you are going to say, oh, well, what about separation of church and state? Well, separation of church and state, it's not in the Constitution, it's not in the First Amendment, it's not in the Declaration of Independence. It was in a letter written from the Danbury Baptist Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists.

And he never said he didn't want God in government. So if you want to be blessed, let's put God back in government. Selling recreational marijuana, I think Mr. Rothstein. So he sells recreational marijuana. So that's why he wants it legalized in Hawaii. Equitable enforcement, that's very general, vague wording.

HB 1246 has very vague wording regarding health and safety. So one of my main concerns is the youth. So recreational marijuana is a threat to the health and safety of the youth. So I've been going into the juvenile facility since 2016 and I can tell you that Marijuana is a big issue and a lot of the crimes.

So you're talking about recreational marijuana for adults, 21 plus. But have you heard of Levy Thamby? He was a 19 year old.

Can I ask you to summarize please?

Sure. He was a 19 year old that took edible marijuanas. Edible marijuana in a cookie. And he jumped off the balcony three months after it was legalized in Colorado.

So it's very, very dangerous for teenagers and young adults. The death rate has increased and the THC in Marijuana today is about 25 to 30% higher than it was back in 1982 when it was about 2 to 3%. Also in many cases with edibles, especially the drug dealers cannot control the amount of THC in their products.

So I would just like to encourage all of you to do your research. It's very, very dangerous. And bringing. Legalizing Marijuana brings in more dangerous and deadly drugs. So if you think Hawaii has an ice problem, think again. Legalizing Marijuana will bring in drugs from all over the world and we're a melting pot for people.

But can you imagine being a melting pot for drugs? Just protect the youth. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Next, we're moving on to testifiers who are individuals rather than. We've been listening to testifiers on behalf of organizations and the first individual said they would like to testify as Robert Quartero. In Zoom. Please proceed.

Thank you. Yes, I'd just like to stand on my testimony that was submitted. You know, I am testifying in support.

And with regards to those who oppose and who support, there are many, you know, great points being made there's one thing that I would like to share, and I think it's a very important point, is, so Portugal had decriminalized all drug use, and in 1989, they were about the last in expected life life expectancy for most of the nations.

And they had a real big problem with crime and drug use. So they decriminalized drugs, and it didn't make the problem easier, but it became a better problem because it wasn't a criminal problem. It became a health problem.

And so today, Portugal's life expectancy rate on the country list, they're ranked 22nd, and the United States is ranked 47. And in 2040, they'll be ranked, Portugal will be ranked 5. So their projections is they're continually climbing.

So what they found is that it's not an easier problem, it's a better problem because it becomes a health issue and not a criminal issue. So I'd just like to add that testimony that's a very strong projection and something that I hope the United States can move towards decriminalizing and understanding the health issues that would come around.

It doesn't make it an easier problem, but a better one. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Thank you very much. Next we have testimony from Ayman El-Suifi on Zoom. Please proceed.

Thank you very much. Can you hear me?

Yes, we do. Please proceed.

All right. Yeah, it's Ayman, by the way, but thank you. It's spelled different. Appreciate the opportunity to testify. Thank you for making the forum available to us, and appreciate all your service to our community. I am in opposition to this Bill. I find it interesting listening to a lot of the testimony here, a lot of good stuff.

Both sides, you know, have good arguments. My personally feel like there's so many mitigations and guardrails that you have to talk about in conjunction with putting something like this in place. It's quite telling as to the potential risks.

And I don't think we're going to magically see a lot of these illegal problems go away just because we decide to make an aspect of cannabis use recreationally legal. In my testimony, I basically just focused on some of the physical issues, and I tried to provide the references from journals and CDC.

The health benefits and the effect on people and, you know, the youth are going to get it. I mean, and legalizing it is not going to change that. In fact, it will even increase it, most likely because it's viewed more positively. Once you do that. Then there's a psychological risk.

And frankly, for me, that one's a Little more worrying because it's easy now because of the THC levels being so high. It's much easier to become addicted to such substances like this, whereas in the past it was much more mild. And once you get that addiction, you start to see the psychological issues develop.

And you know, we've been very fortunate in Hawaii. We haven't had such craziness with the shootings and things like that. I just think we got to really be careful about opening another method for folks to gain an addiction and to affect society. So I thank you for the time and that's my testimony.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Next we have testimony from Christine Iwamoto on Zoom.

Not present. I refer Members to her written testimony in opposition. Next person who said they wish to testify is Daniel Chinen. Welcome. Please proceed.

Good afternoon, Chairs, Vice Chairs and Members of the Committee. Thank you so much for taking the time to hear all these testimonies. I'm going to be brief. I'm just going to share a story. Just real quick stories. I'm into stories. I know stats are important, but for myself, stories are important as well.

First of all, let me introduce myself. I'm Daniel Chinen. I'm a resident in Kaneohe, but I'm also a pastor in Moanalua as well. And so this hits home for our residents, our families, our community members. So just two quick stories. One is I went to school in Canada University where marijuana, recreation marijuana is legal.

And I was an RA of a dorm of guys. And anytime you have a bunch of young men in a dorm, you know there's going to be some bad ideas that's going to take place. And so alcohol was common, but then it bumped up to marijuana.

In fact, two of the guys actually got kicked out of the school and one of them got kicked out of the country because of his abuse with marijuana. So someone said, you know, marijuana is not a gateway drug. Well, in my experience it was because it led to even harder drugs.

And I personally was with him, talking with him and walking him through his recovery during my time in college. Fast forward to today. Last year, a family friend of mine, he has a medical marijuana card and he's been doing marijuana for a long time.

And someone once said to me that marijuana has been known to lead to schizophrenia. Well, it actually happened to him last year and it wasn't diagnosed until he lost his son, his two year old son, his two year old son ventured out of the house and they live in Kalihi and they lost him for four hours.

And the whole community was looking for him. And fortunately, by the grace of God, that members of the community jumped in and were able to find him. But to this day he, he says, you know, it was because of my addiction to marijuana and I'm, I legally have a medical marijuana card.

He's afraid to come forward and share his testimony because you know me, who wouldn't be as a dad losing your son. But anyway, I'd share that. Just a quick story that the effects of marijuana are real and it's happening already just with medical marijuana.

And so to open the gateway to recreational marijuana would just be even more so. So thank you so much for your time. Appreciate you.

Thank you very much. Mr. Chinen, I've just been informed that Mr. Abir Amirdash with Pakaloha Care Clinic, whom I called earlier, is now on Zoom. So please proceed.

Thank you. Chair. It's actually Ms.

Oh, Ms. I apologize, Ms. Amirdash, please proceed.

No worries. I appreciate it. Thank you. Aloha Chairs, Vice Chairs and Committee Members. My name is Abir Amirdash and I'm a geriatric nurse practitioner and owner and operator of Pakaloha Care Clinic, a medical cannabis clinic in Oahu that certifies patients. I'm also a, a certified medical cannabis provider and American Cannabis Nursing Association Member.

Mahalo for the opportunity to testify and for your commitment to shaping policies that will define Hawaii's future. We are at a pivotal moment and we have the responsibility to establish a fair, effective and sustainable cannabis framework that prioritizes patients, local farmers and small businesses, not corporate interests or outdated enforcement models.

While this Bill seeks to regulate cannabis, it fails to address a few concerns. This Bill continues to criminalize our own people, our aunties, uncles, caregivers and cultivators who have been growing and using cannabis as medicine long before legalization efforts began. Other states suggest that the so called illicit market is here, but it's our own communities.

We must not pass policies that harm them while benefiting large commercial interests. For this reasons, I strongly oppose this Bill in its current form and urge the following amendments. Number one, we all need federal protections against prosecution from the Federal Government. That's why I ask. Implementation of federal exemption HCR132. Eliminate pre-employment THC testing.

Working, workers, including first responders and health care professionals, should not be penalized for choosing a safer alternative to opioids. Removing canopy size restrictions, especially on Hawaiian Homelands to support farmers and community based agriculture. Expand the caregiver program to ensure patients have the need to access affordable medicine. Protect patient cultivation rights.

The current suggested one that limits cultivation rights to 10 plants per location, that's not considered legalization. And HOAS should not have the power to remove or restrict patients from growing their own medicine.

Establishing a state-run testing lab also is important because we only have one lab currently that we don't have anything to test against the validity of its quality.

May I ask you to summarize please Ms. Amirdash?

Sure, I'm almost done. And the last thing I ask that we legalize direct hemp flower sales to establish our agriculture economy and ask to set standards for certifying providers to ensure patients receive the proper education about dosing and safe use. And I would like to correct some of that a little bit.

Misconceptions about people who are in opposition also with me with this Bill with their misconception about cannabis increases, it increases youth use. That has been in states that have legalized it that that statistic is incorrect.

So I am for legalization but with the right terms and I hope you take my amendments into consideration and I'm available for any questions.

Thank you very much, appreciate your testimony. Next we have testimony from Robert Bentz on Zoom. Please proceed Robert Bentz.

Aloha Chair. Thank you very much. I am in opposition to the current form of this Bill, but I appreciate your intent. I think if the hemp farmers, the legacy and the patients get involved, we could probably slim this Bill down to something that people are actually able to read.

And we could also have it approved by the people that are more against it. I am certified organic farmer and I was on the hemp task force. Family's been farming in Kula for over seven generations.

Hemp is not a problem from the local producers who are still hanging on and hemp is the only federally legal avenue that we have. So it is unfair of this Bill to demonize hemp because the synthesized hemp are from the imports, they're not from local and you cannot stop the imports.

The illegal high quality, or decent quality I guess, from California, Oregon, Michigan. The trim flower sells to two $300 a pound. So that is a big factor of the illicit market. If this Bill was simplified to just echo the comments of the tax foundation, echo the comments of Judaiah on the farm Bill alignment the details.

HDOA should not have anything to do with him. We are regulated by the USDA. I echo the comments of the previous testimony as well as the public defender. There should be no new crimes or anything like that. This way too complicated. That shouldn't be appointed by the Governor. It should be elected.

The state used to be a leader. Even in the 70s there was 2020 specials.

I could ask you to summarize, Mr. Benz, please.

Yeah. In summary, we really. I, as a patient, it saved my life. A lot of patients, they don't really need it, but it saved my life. To combine it all would be a first in the country. And it would destroy the hemp farmers, it would destroy the medical.

It should be free lab tests and it should be open. There's been no sexual equity. No state has been successful because they limit the licenses in such a way that it would never work. The high taxes, the high fees. It's just not feasible. It says five years living in here. It should be at least 21 years.

And it really needs to, it needs a lot of work to be something that would be workable model.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Next we have testimony from Nicholas Manago on Zoom. Not present. I refer Members to the written testimony. Next we have testimony from Mark Rothstein, M.D. on Zoom. Please proceed.

Aloha Chair. Aloha Chairs, Vice Chair. I am Mark Rothstein, M.D. A licensed physician in Hawaii and Ohio. I have worked as a family doc for decades. I am the Medical Director of Great Aloha on Kauai. I strongly support this measure. I saw opiate abuse disorder and PTSD firsthand in rural Appalachia.

Many patients self-medicated with marijuana to alleviate their afflictions. This piqued my interest. Almost every substance can cause harm in some people. Certainly adolescents should completely avoid cannabis. But we don't place bans on peanuts, penicillin, aspirin on adults because a minority may have an adverse reaction. Heck, we don't even ban cancer-causing tobacco.

Let me address some misconceptions and anecdotal testimonies that have already been expressed today. The war against cannabis was lost a long time ago. Bans and legislative inaction have not worked. Cannabis is ubiquitous here and almost everywhere. We need to manage it by using regulations similar to alcohol and tobacco.

We must provide easier access to cannabis or adults will migrate to the illicit market. Yes, there is a cannabis use disorder similar to alcohol and tobacco. But legalizing adult cannabis has not been found to cause this to increase. The CDC states that no significant evidence exists that cannabis is a gateway drugs.

But when consumers are driven to use illicit markets, they will be exposed to more harmful substances. Cannabis should absolutely not be used by anyone under 21. Two recent AMA studies say that there has been no increased adolescent cannabis use in states with recreational marijuana laws.

Studies have Also shown that opioid use and deaths have declined in states following adult legalization. In blood sampling, THC is the active ingredients in cannabis is still measurable for up to 30 days after it was last used. This can lead to a false attribution of impairment when there is none. But without question, nobody should drive while impaired. Marijuana-

if I could ask you to summarize please.

Sure. Marijuana products have increased in potency. Most medicines like alcohol and beverages have varying levels of active ingredients too. An adult will quickly learn what dose of cannabis is appropriate for them. High potency cannabis logically means that a smaller amount is required to get the same effect.

The illicit market does not test label for potency, adulterants or contaminants nor are their products taxed or restricted to adults. I suspect the main reason the illicit market testified against the Bill is that they could not pass the testing.

I strongly urge you to pass this HB 1246. Warmest aloha and thank you for considering my testimony.

Thank you very much for your testimony and we do have your written testimony with the greater detail. Next we have testimony from Michael Plumhoff on Zoom. Not present. Members, I refer you to his written testimony. Next we have testimony from Lynn Lass-Rothstein on Zoom.

Aloha.

If you could turn off the other.

I'm so sorry. I'm Lynn Lass-Rothstein. 75 year old businesswoman, former public school teacher, artist and past president of a well-known arts organization. I've used medical cannabis for several years. I have never progressed to any kinds of hard drug.

I use cannabis at home the same way as someone who has a glass of wine or a beer a few times a week. I don't drink alcohol for several reasons. It has recently been linked to increases in at least seven different cancers.

According to the World Health Organization, nearly 4% of cancers diagnosed worldwide in 2020 can be attributed to alcohol consumption. And about 75,000 cancer cases and 19,000 deaths in the United States are estimated to be linked to alcohol use each year. This is true for breast cancer which I have had.

Studies have shown that as little as one drink a day increases breast cancer risk in women. I abstain from cannabis when I travel. Even after three weeks of travel, I have absolutely no cravings or withdrawal symptoms. I've heard arguments about cannabis related to the potent strains currently available.

I believe this is disingenuous since the stronger the cannabis, the less I consume to get the desired effect. I support this HB 1246 legislation. I would like to walk into a licensed shop to buy cannabis legally and know that it has been tested for adulterants, pesticides, molds, heavy metals and potency.

I think it is a mistake to conflate legal cannabis dispensaries with drug dealers. I heard that said and I'm personally offended. I also have no desire to support the illicit market where federal, state and local taxes aren't paid and products aren't tested. Without government regulations, it can be sold to minors.

Legal license dispensaries are appropriate for adults over 21. This has worked in 24 states. And opioid overdose deaths have declined in states following legalization. Recent studies have also revealed that there has been no increase in adolescent cannabis use or other drug use in states that have legalized adult-use cannabis.

I believe that a robust legal market can reduce the influence of the illicit market much the same way that the ends of Prohibition reduced moonshine, rumrunners, speakeasies and its associated criminal activities. I urge the Committee to support HB 1246. Mahalo for your time.

Thank you for your testimony. Next person who wishes to testify on the list here is Jermaine Myers on Zoom. Please proceed Jermaine.

Thank you Chair, can you hear me?

Yes, we hear you. Please proceed.

Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Aloha Chairs and Members. My name is Jermaine Myers. I'm in strong opposition of House Build 1246. The testimony of the Department of Health and others before me highlighted the negative health effects of cannabis to keiki, youth, and fetus. Also the negative effects to workers operating equipment, tools and vehicles.

How it's unsafe for adults under the influence of cannabis should not operate a vehicle. Numerous reports were provided by the Department of Health and other testifiers. I read all of the testimony in support of this Bill to understand how legalized cannabis would improve our lives. The common reason for support is money, profit and consumerism.

It's interesting that the state refers to patients that use mental health facilities - consumers. I didn't read any testimony on how it will improve Keiki's school test scores. Nothing in reference to improving keiki's ability to thrive in school. No testimony showed how adult lives will be improved by the consumption of legalized cannabis.

No testimony of how cannabis will make an adult a better worker, parent and community member. I also heard testimony imploring how there is a demand for legalized cannabis, therefore it should be legalized. There are demands for crystal meth, demand for cocaine, aerial fireworks, prostitution. A demand for cheap labor leading to human trafficking.

Just because there is a demand doesn't mean it should be legalized. Listening to the support and opposition of marijuana or cannabis reminds me of the conversations about COVID vaccination. Some say COVID vaccinations were required due to public safety and individual health to protect lives.

Our Governor went to Washington, D.C. to oppose the confirmation of a federal health Director. Why was he concerned about vaccination and saving lives?

May I ask you to summarize? Please.

Yes. Those of us in opposition to legalize cannabis care about saving lives. I humbly ask the Chairs and Members of the Committees to oppose HB 1246. Ke Akua pu. God bless all of you.

Mahalo, Ms. Myers. Next we have testimony from Wendy Gibson Viviani.

Good morning, Chairs, Vice Chairs and Committee Members. I'm Wendy Gibson Viviani. I'm a cannabis nurse educator and I strongly support this Bill. I'm part of a growing. Excuse me, get my tools. A growing network of healthcare professionals who see that the damaging effects are not from actual use, but from the criminalization of the people who use cannabis.

That's primarily been people of color, including native Hawaiians. Recently, the FDA told the DEA to take cannabis out of the Schedule 1 drug category, saying it poses a low risk threat to public health, that the vast majority of people who use cannabis do so in a manner that does not lead to dangerous outcomes to themselves or others.

And when compared to alcohol, cannabis is less harmful to the body, less addictive, and less likely to cause violent or reckless behavior. We have good data showing that when cannabis use goes up, the use of more harmful substances goes down. Use of synthetic drugs, which are widely available to our keiki, dropped by more than 1/3 after legalization.

We also saw reductions in use of the top three substances that people overdose on every single day. Those are opiates, benzodiazepines and alcohol. When alcohol was legalized, we were able to regulate product quality and sales. We can do the same with cannabis legalization.

I Support House Bill 1246 because it puts public health and safety first by promoting regulation of products, restriction of sales. It provides public education which can help minimize the projected harms. It includes restorative justice to those most harmed by the war on drugs. Please Support House Bill 1246. And thank you for bringing this Bill.

Thank you very much. Next, we have testimony from Calvin Chinen. Welcome. Please proceed.

Aloha, committees. Thank you so much for serving the people of Hawaii. So appreciate all of you for all your time. I stand in opposition to this Bill.

One of the things that makes Hawaii so special, in fact, in my opinion, probably makes it the most special. It's not so much the beautiful beaches, although they are indeed beautiful, and the mountains and the air a bit. There are many islands in this world that have equal beauty, but somehow there's something about Hawaii.

Whether you're in Asia or in Africa or in Europe, when the people hear Hawaii, they say, wow, that's the place I want to go to. Could it be that the reason that Hawaii is so special is because of what chair you said at the very beginning? It is aloha. It is aloha which permeates our culture.

Indeed, it gets. It waxes and it wanes, and seems like it wanes more often than it waxes. I'm in strong opposition to this, especially for our youth, because it's already been outlined already about the damage to the brain, to the motivations of our kids.

And, I mean, honestly, when we're in this building, it's so easy to think this is the world when we all go home and when we walk on the streets of Hawaii and in our neighborhoods and we see our young people and we see so many of them stoned, and we see so many of them losing the motivation, becoming apathetic.

And indeed, probably the greatest loss is losing a sense of aloha. Allah. For yourself, for your family, for your community. I know there are many. I know I'm speaking of just a few. But just those few is what this Bill will legalize and open the doors to. And to me, it's not worth. Is not worth it.

We've seen the young people, and we've seen their lives, and we've seen the fruit of their lives. And this Bill, we know, we all know, will open the door for some of our young people that their lives and the trajectory of their lives will not lead unto aloha.

May I ask you to summarize, please, sir?

And therefore, I stand in opposition. Let's stand for aloha. Let's stand for our young people. Let's protect our young people, that they will be the greatest generation of aloha that we have yet to see here in Hawaii. Aloha.

Thank you very much. Next we have. Excuse me. Thank you. I would request that we just all listen and not give any reaction in support or against the commentary from the testifiers. Thank you. Next we have testimony from Drew Daniels on Zoom. Not present. I refer Members to the written testimony. Next, we have testimony from Mike Stensrud.

Please proceed.

Thank you. Thanks, everybody. For the work that they've been doing. I submitted a statement, just a few things, just separate from that, first of all, for the Christians in the audience, I would just point out that the book of Genesis explicitly...

Talk to us sir, please. Please. And [inaudible] the Bill.

Okay, okay. All right. I think the Bill is innovative.

It's good improvement. It's. It's got the legacy grower sort of provisions that are very unique in America. I visited 10 states that have legalized. I visited hundreds of shops, labs, tours, farms, and so on. The Hawaii provisions are very unique. One thing that I know that comes up in opposition is the financing.

Both Oregon and Nevada allowed medical dispensaries to sell to recreational customers initially to get their programs up and going. So if they're worried about financing the staff that they need to hire, they could let the existing dispensaries sell to recreational customers at the new tax rate and use that money to stand up the program.

Just a couple of other things here. I know a lot of people have said use has declined in states that have legalized. Just to put some story to that, in Seattle, there's one of the biggest retailers there, said that he. After legalization was implemented in Washington, he noticed that he started having children.

Well, kids, teenagers, come to a store trying to buy stuff. And I understand that sounds terrible, but the backstory is the reason they did that is because street dealers disappeared and they had no place else to buy anymore.

And now they had to go to a store where their ID is checked at the door and it's checked when they buy, and it's too big of a gauntlet for most of them to clear. So, in fact, legalization does keep it out of the hands of kids. One other Last point is THC levels.

I'm aware that THC levels are supposedly higher than they were 30 years ago. It's no different from whiskey and beer. Nobody drinks a pint of whiskey. At least a normal person doesn't. It's the same thing with cannabis. Nobody consumes an ounce of really high potency stuff in one go. Anyways, thank you. I hope you pass it.

It would be great for the state and great for the people. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next, we have testimony from Marion Logan. Not present in person. I refer Members to the written testimony. Next person who said that they wanted to testify is Deborah Ward.

Welcome. Please proceed.

Aloha. Representatives Tarnas, Poepoe, Kahaloa, Kusch, and Members of the Committee on Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs and Committee of Agriculture and Food Systems. I am standing in opposition to House Bill 1246 proposing to regulate all aspects of the cannabis plant, including the legalization of adult recreational use.

I join my fellow concerned community members to strongly urge you not to pass this bill, which blatantly prioritizes the economic and commercial interests of marijuana growers, manufacturers, distributors, etc. over the health and safety of our communities and our youth.

No amount of regulation will ensure that that youth will not find access to this drug and become addicted to cannabis in greater numbers than already is illegally used. It poses a significant threat to their physical and mental health and will have impacts to their studies, families, and behavior in our community. For example, impaired driving as one example.

How could our law enforcement possibly preempt the dangerous impaired behavior? Recognized, credible studies of regular marijuana use have demonstrated significant physical and mental impairment of cannabis users, especially over long term use.

Legalized use of marijuana as a quote recreational drug will create widespread numbers of impaired persons driving, working, operating heavy machinery, and possible mental disorientation by some in any number of places in our communities. To summarize, the fact is that marijuana has long been recognized as a mind altering substance whose quantitative use and consequences cannot be controlled.

Should be sufficient warning to you, our elected officials, to not add further elements to the stew of troubles our state is already facing. I close with a quote from an op ed by Hilton Raethel. One salient question is to ask whether legalizing recreational marijuana will have a net positive or negative effect in our communities. Will it increase test scores for students, reduce homelessness, increase productivity at work, or increase health and wellness in our communities?

Thank you.

If we are... Mahalo for your stern and clear minded weighing of the avaricious versus the protective motives of your constituents. Please give serious consideration to the documented negative physical and mental health impacts of cannabis on our citizens, all our citizens, and act on what's best for Hawaii and not on the potential revenue. We need to look at the issue through the lens of safety and caution and not the greed of potential income to our state.

Ua mau ke ea o la aina i ka pono. The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness. Thank you for your listening.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Ward. Appreciate your testimony. Next, we have testimony from James Wallace. Not present. I refer Members to his testimony. Next, we have testimony from Susan Kuwaye. Not present. Refer Members to her testimony. Next, we have Susan Duffy. Not present. Next, we have RosaMaria Hurst.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chairs, and Members of the Committee. I'm RosaMaria Hurst, and I am coming here against the bill, but also talking for the keikis of our community. We have heard the danger of the use of marijuana. There are many studies. In Canada, 62 of 68 studies assessing, including several severe mental health disorder, brain changes, negative cognitive outcomes, negative pregnancy outcomes, and even testicular cancers.

I think I hear both sides of the story. And apparently this marijuana can be good for some people, for people who are sick. But we need to protect our children. I oppose strongly this bill, and I hope we can sit down together and maybe to read it again and to make it better. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Next, we have testimony from Margaret Hannemann. Welcome. Please proceed.

Thank you very much for all of you being here, letting us speak. Mine's more of a personal experience. My brother started with cigarettes and went on to marijuana and eventually OD'd on heroin. Among many there that were going to let him die because they didn't want to expose that he was partaking of a deadly drug, and he lived.

Unfortunately, someone there at the house was allowed to let someone call the police at this party, which I was supposed to go to. But I went to the door that day and had the strong impression that I should not go in. And I'm glad I didn't. But I'm sad that maybe I could have gotten my son, my brother, to a hospital sooner. But bottom line, it started with. It started with cigarettes, right to marijuana. And then from marijuana, he went to that heavy drug. I oppose this HB 1246 because of my brother.

He is alive today, but he has brain damage, and he only has 10... His brain only allows him 10 minutes, and then he forgets what he's, what he, what else he could do with his life. So he is now being taken care of, and we've all been taken care of. But I just don't think where...

I'm about the children. I'm about the children. It was. It took place in my home because it started with my father, and it caused my parents to get divorced because of my brother. And our whole family was broken up because of it. But because of strong religious beliefs that we do have, I have never partaken of any, I don't even drink coffee. But I'm so, so, so opposed to this bill.

And I would hope that you think of this children. If you can't change, if the adults are what you're concerned about, but think of the children with this drug. This marijuana, this cannabis going into the homes of the parents that will be smoking it and be exposed to their children. That is my... Can be exposed to the children. And thank you for your time.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Next, Arthur Hannemann. Please proceed.

Yeah. Thank you. Aloha. And appreciate Chairman David Tarnas and Co-Chairs and the others who are here and Diamond, who represents our group, considerably. Appreciate the opportunity to share testimony regarding a HB 1246. Had a conversation earlier with Representative Tarnas, and I appreciate that.

And I do believe that we can disagree, but at the same time have a harmonious kind of relationship at the same time. I am totally and passionately opposed to HB 1246. Like my wife, I have a personal story as well. We together have seven sons, and we have 25 grandchildren. So we're Christ centered.

I mean, we're Christians, we're Christ centered. We try to raise them in a Christ centered environment so that they make right decisions, right choices throughout their lives, so they can be good, positive contributors to our community, to our state, to this country. Come from a family of 14, 11 girls and three boys.

I'm Samoan and raised very strong Christian, Samoan family. Prayer every morning, Prayer every night. My brother, at the age of 13, became very experimental in terms of what was going on in the 1970s. That's when the big drug boom hit, right? In the seventies. He started experimenting. He went on to start it with marijuana. Definitely believe 100% it's a gateway drug.

Personal experience. And it went on to other harder drugs because there was more of an interest in regards to getting a better high or a stronger high. And when he was 36, I was 35. I got a phone call. His wife was screaming on the other end of the phone, and she said, Max, my brother is dead. He had just OD'd on heroin in the bathroom. I've had several friends from the 70s who started with marijuana. Several, I can name five, all OD'd on harder drugs. So this thing about not being a gateway is totally false.

All of us in this room have experienced someone who OD'd on heroin or who OD'd on some kind of hard drug, starting with something less. And as far as these regulations, 21 years old and all these regulations are gonna put in place in terms of protecting the keiki. I mean, how many of us in this room drank when we were below 21?

May I ask you to summarize, please. May I ask you to summarize, please.

How many of us in this room smoked a cigarette. I am right now. How many of us in this room smoked a cigarette at the age below 21? And how many of us have dealt in drugs, some form of drug, less than 21? I believe all of us. Most of us. I say please protect the families. Protect the families. Since my brother's death, it impacted our entire family in a negative way. That was many years ago. I'm 70 today. I still think of him daily. Please say no to HB 1246 and protect the families of Hawaii. Thank you.

Thank you for your testimony. Next, we have testimony from Alfred Medeiros. Not present. That is all the testimony that we've received and all the individuals who said they wish to testify. Is there anyone else here in the room that wishes to testify that hasn't signed up? Oh, you're supposed to have signed up by now.

I called. If you hadn't said you were going to be here, I didn't call your name. So we'll start over here. Please come on up and provide your name. And proceed. Could you circulate a sign up sheet, please? We're going to circulate a sign up sheet so we can get everyone who has said they wish to testify on it. You can sit down, and she'll bring it to you. Thank you. Please proceed.

My name is Cynthia Bartlett. I'm just a parent. I have a 30 year old non-speaking child that's on medical cannabis, and she had a little bit of a psychotic reaction. She can't speak. So her psychiatrist did inform me that at least 2% of the youth under 25 do experience possible schizophrenia switch.

And when that switch is turned on, it's never turned off in life. So we can't just ignore that. It's not age 21, it's age 25. I've been listening, and it seems to me this is a common sense versus emotion interviews. The DUI thing is pretty serious. We're all driving in our cars every day.

How are we going to know when someone who's had this THC times 30 from what I had in college, they can't possibly keep their judgment and their vision in the way that would keep it safe and would be equal to many, many glasses of alcohol, and there's no test. So when they get pulled over, where's the test?

We need to wait to make it legal until we have a test for DUI because we'll have hundreds if not thousands of cars on the highway during rush hour when you're, you guys here. And I understand you're going to pass it through the Committee without even hearing these things, without even hearing any of us.

We're listening to your testimony right now, so we are listening to you. So please proceed.

All right. Well, I hope you will consider your own children on the highway, you on the highway, your mother on the highway. There's no way to measure the amount of THC in their blood. There's no way to measure it. So why would you make it legal? It makes no sense. It's deleterious to every single citizen in Hawaii. I just met a gentleman on the Big Island from Oregon. They're trying to reverse this because of the damage that it's done. They're trying to reverse making marijuana legal now in Oregon.

Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony. Next person on the list is... I'll go over here. Please come on up, sir, and introduce yourself.

Thank you, Chair. You've been giving me an opportunity to speak. My name is Pastor Bird Mahelona from the West Side. I deal with a lot of inmates and the population of all the guys are going into prison because of drugs and alcohol. And I see the abuse. We go into the trenches, we feed the homeless, and we see inmates and kids. They're struggling, doing drugs on the beaches.

And it's really, you know, for me, it hurts because seeing them on outside, doing drugs, and being incarcerated back in prison, when I see these notorious guys, and I just married one of them, his name is Joshua. He just shot a couple people down at Pokai Bay on drugs.

And when they're in prison, they're clean and sober and they got the right mind. They make better decisions. So drugs, for me, I'm against it because it hurts my community. And I see the results in the prison. You guys don't see this. I'm going into the trenches behind prison walls. See the most violent, notorious guys today that I mentored is a solution. Thank you.

Thank you very much for your testimony. I don't have the list yet, so I'm going to be going here. Who else? Sir, why don't you come next? And I'll just have to mark off your name once I get the list. Please introduce yourself.

My name is Anthony Aliengena, and I'm with the United States of Ganja. I traveled to Colorado in 2014 immediately after the recreational market was created. I saw an industry denied access to the banking system. Lack of access to the banking system is one of the hurdles cannabis entrepreneurs face since they are charged exorbitant fees by financial institutions to take the risk of working with them. This is a problem Hawaii medical provider's experience, and with the recreational bill, the problem is just going to get bigger.

The Governor of Colorado created cannabis credit co-ops to help the industry participants come together and in a credit co-op to get around the federal prohibition. The day the legislation was created, I went online and registered a domain name for the entities Cannabis Credit co-op .com and began petitioning for the first permit.

But after just a few weeks it went to Fourth Corner Credit Union, and I thought I'd let them fight it out and follow in their footsteps. After years of litigation, Fourth Corner Credit Union versus the Board of Directors of Federal Reserve case concluded, and it was agreed they would not take deposits from anyone touching the cannabis plant.

I registered the UnitedStatesOfGanja.com and began petitioning again for the first permit. I'd like to see the Hawaii cannabis and hemp office advocate for the industry, demanding to have access to the banking system like any legitimate business. The other forces aligned against cannabis entrepreneur are being overtaxed and over regulated out of business.

If the taxes are set too high and the regulation is too onerous, then there would be no chance of stamping out the black market. As a 50th state, Hawaii has a duty to set the example for the other states and show what's possible when a government helps the industry lead the way forward.

Let's be an example to the world for the world to follow. Hawaii needs a market with regulations and taxes that are easy for existing entrepreneurs to enter into and remain profitable, as well as feasible for new market entrance to comply with, allowing innovation to flourish.

Additionally, we need access to the banking system through a cannabis credit co-op with fair fees and preferential rates so on loans so it can always remain a grassroots industry. And the issue with the gateway drug, I would just like to say is an offshoot of the black market. When you have people selling cannabis and also selling other drugs, the kids get access to the other stuff that they want to get with a legitimate store they could go get it at. So thank you for your time. Aloha.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Next, Scott Kobayashi.

Aloha, Committee. Thank you so much for listening to all of us here today. My name is Scott Kobayashi, born and raised here. I am a dad, I'm a pastor. And two reasons why I stand in opposition of this bill. Number one, I've been doing youth ministry for 18 years of my life.

That's half my life, and I've seen first and secondhand the effects of marijuana in the hands of our youth. Quick story. This is a positive story. One of the kids, he's 23 years old now. I saw him at a business networking meeting two weeks ago and he said, hey, Pastor Scott, thank you so much for loving me during my hard times. I went into a funk. And he had been in marijuana.

But I saw him at this business networking event, and he told me I got clean and I started a business and I got plugged into church again. So thank you so much. And just to hear these stories are so encouraging for me as a youth pastor who loves and cares for the youth of Hawaii. And second, dad of three kids.

I have 4 year old, 2 year old, and a 5 month year old. And I just think my general concern for myself and my family is just accessibility. And I just think if there's more supply coming to our Hawaii, there's more chances that my kids may accidentally take that. It might happen in their classrooms or in our schools. But I'm just generally concerned as a pastor and as a parent. So thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Next, Denise Foley. Welcome. Please proceed.

Thank you for listening. I am a firsthand person that has been affected from the use of marijuana. It ruined my education, it put me in dangerous situations, and I don't think aloha means walking around Hawaii and smelling marijuana with your family trying to come out and do things. So I oppose this bill. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next, Joy Chinen. Welcome. Please proceed.

I did submit a testimony, but we're supposed to be on a trip and so I put only written. But since I got to come. Thank you. I stand in opposition to HB 1246 because my heart is for our children. I'm a grandparent of eight grandchildren, and with recreational marijuana, it would be so easy for our keiki to get a hold of it. I feel that this is sending the wrong message to our keiki. We all know that the marijuana of today is more harmful than in the past.

The states that have legalized marijuana are facing tremendous challenges with keiki who are not doing well in school, with businesses that are having a hard time keeping their employees, and with an increase in traffic accidents. If the main reason for legalizing marijuana is for government income, that's not a good reason. The consequences are too great. Let's do what is good for our keiki. They are our future. Please do not legalize recreational marijuana. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I have three more Individuals that said they want to testify. So those will be the three that we'll take, and then we'll go to decision making. Alan Cardenas.

Aloha, Chairs, Vice Chairs, Member of the Committee. Alan Cardenas Jr. I am again strongly opposed to this. I'm from Nanakuli, the West Side of the Island of Oahu. Back in 2023, we had 80%, 80% increase in homicides. Last year, the West Side been rocked to its core with the deadly shooting, domestic violence, and so much.

We have enough problems in our communities right now. My own personal experience. Opening this up will create more. Number two, we got people out there in our communities that just don't care. They don't care about the kids, they don't care about aloha, ohana, our community, or the laws.

And they're going to find some way, a way to break the laws no matter what. And we've seen personal experience how marijuana had led to mental illness, schizophrenia, psychosis in our young kids, which led to terrible and deadly choices. I'm tired of going to funerals of young people. I'm just tired of this. And lastly, so what?

We make a little bit of money, and our kids and our families and our communities all screwed up. I don't think it's worth it from where I'm at in my community, one of the most beautiful places on the Island of Oahu, by the way, the West Side. Beautiful people, beautiful place. I appreciate you bringing all of us together to have civil discourse. But I ask on behalf of our keiki, our family. Our kids need hope, not dope. So mahalo. Thank you so much for sharing.

Thanks for your testimony. Next, Karlyn Laulusa.

Hello, Chairs, Vice Chairs, and Representatives. I'm Karlyn Laulusa, the CEO for Noa Botanicals, one of the eight medical licensees. I appreciate how contentious this topic is, so I will try my best to reframe the conversation around facts. So here are the facts. Number one, hemp and cannabis are the same plant, yet hemp is, hemp is overseen by the Department of Agriculture and cannabis is overseen by the Department of Health.

Fact number two, the only way to tell the difference between the two is to test the product. Fact number three, the state currently does not have laws that require testing of hemp flower or hemp products for inhalation because these products are already supposed to be illegal. Fact number four, last year at this time, there were 10 illegal dispensaries on the Island of Oahu. As of today, there are over 40.

Fact number five, the extreme danger posed by these mislabeled products are that there are no established safety requirements, again, because we don't have any laws to manage hemp products. Number six, without any safety requirements, the consumers do not know what they are consuming or where it came from.

Number seven, there has been little to no enforcement on these illegal operators that have flooded the state. Number eight, none of these products are made locally. And I want to be very clear about that. All of these products are illicit interstate commerce that is purposely labeled.

It's cannabis overproduction, purposely labeled as hemp and then sold in Hawaii to skirt the law. Number nine, many of these products contain solvents, pesticides, or other dangerous chemicals. And number 10, with no rules or regulations surrounding these operators, this problem will continue. In closing, legalization should really be seen as regulation that we lack today.

This bill presents the opportunity to assign a single authority that would need to understand the complexities of this plant to properly manage the plant at all stages of life. Hemp, cannabis, and finished product. Establishing this authority to responsibly create enforceable rules and regulations is critical to public health and safety. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Ms. Laulusa. And our final testifier is Winston Wong.

Aloha, Chairs, Vice Chairs, Members of the Committees. My name is Winston Wong on behalf of the Department of Taxation. I apologize I wasn't here earlier at the start of this meeting when our testimony was called. I was answering questions downstairs.

I'm glad you're here now. Please proceed.

Will do. The Department has submitted comments and testimony on this bill. And to summarize just some of the tax implications of this. Part three of this bill is primarily the tax instrument here. What it does is it imposes a cannabis tax of 14% on retail sales of cannabis and it imposes a 4% tax on medical sales of cannabis.

Our estimates for the next six years for fiscal year 2026 through fiscal year 2031 are a net tax gain of 4.3 million in 2026, 20.6 million in 2027, 26.8 million in 2028, 33 million in 2029, 39.3 million in 2030, and 40.5 million in 2031. The Department of Taxation foresees that this is going to be, there will be substantial enforcement ramp up for the Department.

We would have to have significant resources in order to administer this tax. This would be separate and distinct from the general excise tax. Also, a part of this bill includes an exemption of the general excise tax, so there isn't that double tax. So this cannabis tax being imposed by this new bill would lead also to an exemption of the GET. So our figures do account for that sort of decrease in the General Fund for GET revenue decreases, as well as the increase from the new cannabis tax.

The Department has also proposed various technical amendments to this bill, including a limitation on the statute. I mean, a tolling of the statute of limitations on collections, as well as requesting specific appropriations to various funds. I will be available for any questions regarding our testimony or the revenue estimates provided today. Thank you.

Thank you. And I would appreciate if you would submit those revenue estimates to the Committee, since they're not in your written testimony. That would be very helpful.

Will do, Chair Tarnas.

Thank you very much, sir. Okay, that's all the testimony that we've received in writing and verbally. Thank you to all the testifiers. I'd like to go to questions from Members of the Committees. First to the Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs Committee. Any questions? Okay. I'll turn it over to you for questions from the Agriculture and Food Systems Committee. Oh, Mr. Shimizu.

Thank you, Chair. I have a question for the Department of Health. Are they still here? Oh, thank you. I just want to refer to your testimony that says legalizing adult use of cannabis should be expected to have a negative impact on the health of the public. As such, the Department remains highly concerned about the public health and environmental impacts that they increase accessibility of cannabis and opening of an adult use marketplace will bring. And obviously, Department of Health, you have a wide range of purview of our society, and I'd like you to maybe comment on your wide picture, your big picture that you see.

Thank you. Our concerns about public health are around what I mentioned earlier. So cannabis use does definitely have, like any substance use, does definitely have impacts on a person's health. Now, it's complicated because cannabis works very differently in different people because we come with different endocannabinoids systems in our bodies. But overall, for youth...

Well, I'll address mental health first. For mental health, there is no data saying that cannabis actually causes psychosis or schizophrenia. What it does is, for those who are predisposed to psychosis, then it can trigger that. So that is one of our concern. For youth, because you've heard already of the development of brain.

The brain develops up to age 25, and the endocannabinoid system and the receptors, there are many receptors in the brain. And so the use of cannabis definitely disturbs and disrupts that development. If we have seen overall, and it is true that youth use has decreased over time, whether that's because of legalization or not. There's no cause and effect on that. We just know that, overall, adolescents, perhaps the activities of the adolescents have changed and gone online rather than to substance.

Another point I'd like to make is actually our biggest concern right now are the hemp cannabinoids that are right now disguised. Or, sorry, the high intoxicating THC that are now disguised as hemp cannabinoid products. That's actually what is sending our youth to the emergency rooms.

So overall, with a stronger regulatory framework, which we see in the bill, if it passes, we would need time to do a lot of education for those youth and vulnerable populations, the vulnerable adults, so they understand that there could be psychosis incidents, there could be brain development retardation, there could be other effects, including substance use and abuse. I hope that answers your question.

Yeah, I'm sure there's much more, but thank you for the answer. And thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Shimizu. Please, now let's go to the Agriculture and Food Systems Committee.

Thank you, Chair. Members on the Ag and Food Systems Committee, any questions? Seeing none. Back to the Judiciary.

Thanks. Double checking with Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs. If not, thank you for all the questions. So we need, you need one more. So we're going to briefly recess until we get one more Member of the Agriculture and Food Systems Committee and we can go to decision making. So we'll take a brief recess. Recess.

Reconvening the Committee on Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs, along with the Committee on Agriculture and Food Systems hearing. It's Tuesday, February 4th. We're now just a quarter after four and we're moving into decision making, at this time. Thanks to all the Members for being here. This has been a very helpful hearing. Thanks to all the testifiers.

It's important for us to hear you and also, read all the testimony that we received. So, I want to mahalo all those who testified.

We are really trying to do our best with this Bill. And I've worked on this Bill quite a bit and I just would like to highlight just a few things, before I make my suggested amendments.

You know, in the Bill itself, the Hawaii Cannabis and Hemp Office must contract to develop and implement a comprehensive public and health and education campaign, at the very beginning, before it all starts to roll out, before first sales of legal cannabis.

The Campaign will focus on the dangers of cannabis use by those under 21 and the dangers associated with driving impaired, under the influence of cannabis, especially for adults who are also vulnerable—that they know what the risks are, so that they can make informed choices.

This Bill provides funding for new staff and resources, for the Department of Attorney General to increase their capacity to address nuisance abatement and money laundering. The Bill provides funding for mandatory subsequent—the Bill requires mandatory substance abuse treatment program for those under 21 found driving while under the influence of cannabis.

We're going to—and then, tax revenues will be available to counties and the Department of Law Enforcement to spend on resources and training program for drug recognition experts, in order to enhance their abilities to combat all substances that can impair driving.

This Bill preserves protections for medical cannabis patients, by continuing to allow the caregiver model and self grows, in addition to exempting medical cannabis transactions from the additional 10% tax applied to adult-use sales.

The Bill contains a Social Equity Grant Program which will provide financial support to Social Equity Applicants for training, technical assistance, and help in opening their cannabis businesses.

This Bill includes a range of licenses available, so that, instead of being a vertically integrated model, which is what is in the medical cannabis industry now, it's horizontal, so there'll be more opportunity for small businesses in Hawaii to take part, and, in fact, including a craft cannabis license, which we hope is going to attract the legacy growers into the regulated market.

It also would include licenses for delivery and cannabis consumption lounges, after the Hawaii Cannabis and Hemp Office develops their own rules. This is a one plant approach, so that it would, under this office, would regulate medical cannabis, adult-use cannabis, and hemp products that are for consumption or use on the skin by humans.

It would not include industrial hemp, for construction or for cloth. And then, finally, I want to emphasize that this does have protections against the multi-state operators from coming into Hawaii. The Bill includes a five-year residency requirement, which will limit who can be licensed and prevent these out of state corporations from obtaining licenses.

The Bill limits the total number of licenses to nine total, and no more than three in any one category, to prevent domination of the market. It includes disclosure requirements for all applicants, including the name and addresses of anyone having a direct or indirect financial interest.

And finally, it strictly regulates the transfer of licenses and has further requirements for transfers, that would be adopted by the Hawaii Cannabis and Hemp Office, as they see necessary, to prevent the licenses from being transferred to out-of-state operators.

So, we're really trying to make sure that this—if we were to legalize this in the state—this measure would ensure that the businesses in Hawaii would be able to participate, as opposed to the big multi-state operators from coming in.

So, with that introduction, Members, my recommendation is to pass out a House Draft 1, based on—listening to all the testimony. And what I would suggest is that we defect the effective date to July 1st, 3000, so that the Bill would be flawed as it moves forward, because it still needs more work.

We would blank out the appropriations and the positions authorized under this Bill and put the appropriations and those position counts into the Standing Committee Report, so that the next committees that hear this know what we're requesting.

I would like to note, in the Standing Committee Report, the—that in the Budget and Finance testimony, they requested an effective date of July 1st, 2026, and in the Taxation—Tax Department—testimony, they requested an implementation date for Part 3 of January 1st, 2027.

And in the Department of Health testimony, they requested a 12-month period before first day sales, instead of what is contemplated in the Bill, which is six months.

So, I want to note that in the Standing Committee Report for the future—for future consideration. I would like to adopt the amendments that are recommended by the Attorney General in their testimony. I would like to include the amendments from DHRD—Department of Human Resource Development.

I'd also like to include the amendment from Department of Taxation, that you requested. And I would also like to adopt the recommendation of the Hawaii Alliance of Cannabis. Can you hand me that testimony? Yeah, there's Hawaii Alliance of Cannabis Reform. They have, in their testimony, they had three amendments. I would like to adopt those, as well.

And then, finally, there are several recommended amendments that our House Majority Staff Office Attorneys have recommended, and I'll read those, because they're not in testimony that's available to everyone.

On Page 30, Lines 3 to 8, we want to clarify that a college or university may, if they choose, allow medical use of cannabis by a college or university faculty member or student, while the faculty member or student is within faculty or student housing. It's a may. It's up to the university.

And on Page 100, Line 10 and Page 101, Line 19, we want the amendment to add reference to Part 7—would exclude cannabis and hemp business licensees and make this application requirement only applicable to permit applications. The intent is to carve out an exception for those medical cannabis dispensaries currently operating.

So, I would like to adopt a provision similar to Page 103, Lines 9 to 15 and Page 149, Lines 10 to 11. So, as I say, the intent is to carve out an exception for those medical cannabis dispensaries who are currently operating. They already have strict requirements, and I want to make sure that those aren't changed.

As I say, we want to make some technical amendments needed for clarity, consistency, and style. We will blank out the position amounts and the appropriation amounts and put those into the Committee Report. We did have amendments requested by the Department of Agriculture and I'll turn it over to the Agriculture Chair, for her recommendation.

Yes, I'm focused on amendments and recommendations related to the subject matter of agriculture. The Department of Agriculture did submit testimony in support. Their focus was on taking a one plant approach.

So, in their recommended amendments, they asked to exempt themselves and give all authority in the transportation of plant materials to the new authority that would be established under this Bill.

However, seeing that biosecurity is extremely important to the State of Hawaii, we would like to not take their recommendations, so that we can work on protecting biosecurity, as cannabis moving between islands could be a movement of plant material.

So, we'd like to note in the Standing Committee Report that we'd like to see the Department of Agriculture work with the new authority, upon the passage, or if there was passage of this Bill, to work together to create rules, related to biosecurity and the movement of cannabis as a plant material, rather than take their recommendations.

One more recommendation, related to hemp—hemp testimony today—especially from Kauai Hemp, indicated some recommendations. So, we'd like to adopt the Attorney General's recommendations.

You go ahead and read them.

Yeah, I will. I will read that. about tinctures. So, we would like to, on Page 159, of the Bill, Lines 13 to 19, related to tinctures, to adopt their recommendations, as followed in their testimony.

So, since—yeah, since this was not actually in the written testimony, I think we should read this.

Okay, I can read it. So, on Page 159, Lines 13 to 19, Number 2—tinctures. Provided that the tincture does not contain more than 30 servings per bottle, taking out one and replacing that with 3 milligram of tetrahydrocannabinols per serving, and replacing 30 with 90 milligrams—90—90 milligrams of tetrahydrocannabinol per bottle.

Provided further that tinctures with over 5 mg of tetrahydrocannabinol per bottle shall not be sold to persons under 21 years of age. And this is in fair alignment with their recommendations on the federal Farm Bill, still pending passage, but it is part of that Bill, which is why we'd like to adopt that recommendation.

And those are the only adjustments that we have for our Committee.

Thank you, Chair. Kahaloa. So, those are the recommendations from both Committee Chairs, that cover both of our areas of jurisdiction, Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs, and also, Agriculture and Food Systems. And I want to say that these were based on testimony we received and meetings that we've had with individuals on this Bill.

So, I appreciate everyone's comments on it. Are there any questions or concerns, Members, about our proposed amendments? And to you, for asking the same question.

Yes. Members of the Agriculture and Food Systems Committee, Representative Quinlan.

I just wanted to say that, you know, my community has a lot of concerns and this is a very contentious issue in the district that I represent. But I did want to mahalo both chairs for their diligence and their hard work and in trying to come up with the best possible solution.

And I will be voting with the chairs. Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other comments from Members? Yes. Representative Perruso?

And likewise, I echo Rep. Quinlan's sentiments. However, I do have concerns about the Department of Health's testimony, and I haven't had time to dig into the 115 citations provided, or 122 citations, provided in their testimony. But I will be doing that.

And I'm grateful that this Bill still has to go through CPC and, you know, two more additional committees. So, I look forward to learning more about these health considerations. So, I will be voting with reservations.

I appreciate your willingness to learn more. Thank you. Other comments? Represent Takayama.

Chair, thank you. As you know, I appreciate the work you've put into this Bill, but I'll be voting no.

Thank you.

Sure. I appreciate that. Representative Diamond.

Thank you, Chair.

Representative Garcia.

Thank you. Once again, thank you for the work done here. But I believe that this is—the passage of this Bill would move our state in the wrong direction. I represent West Oahu and, like was mentioned by a few of our residents, the uptick in crime is pervasive.

And being raised in a household where this was quite prevalent, I've seen the impacts it has on life in general, the trajectory of life. So, I'll be voting no. Thank you.

I appreciate your consideration. Any other comments or concerns from? Yes, please. Representative Shimizu.

Thank you, Chair. Ditto. I recognize the hard work you put in, Chair Tarnas, and I recognize the reasons for the Bill.

But I believe, with the wide range of counterarguments from Department of Health, law enforcement, prosecuting attorney, business, faith-based community, construction, and the farm industry, as well as my personal experience with it, I will be voting no.

Tthank you for your consideration. Other comments from Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs Committee? If not, do you want to ask your Members for comments?

Any comments from Members of the Agriculture and Food Systems Committee? I will just make one comment. Chair Tarnas, thank you for your work on this very comprehensive measure. We appreciate the work and we want to continue the conversation with everybody who has invested time, energy, and effort to put this Bill together. Thank you, Chair Tarnas.

Certainly. Thank you, Chair. Okay. There have been no comments or questions, any—from anyone else. I'd like to go to decision making. So, recommendation is to pass with amendments, as I've described. Vice Chair, for the vote.

[Roll Call]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Chair. Now moving on to the Committee on Agriculture and Food Systems. Same recommendation. Vice Chair, for the vote.

[Roll Call]

Thank you, Vice Chair. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much to all the Members here. There being no further business before these joint committees, we are adjourned.