Senate Standing Committee on Agriculture and Environment

We are convening our Committees on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs and our good friends from the Committee on Health and Human Services on this Thursday, February 6th at 3:00 in room 016. This hearing is being stride- streamed live on YouTube.

If there's any kind of technical difficulties and we have to reconvene, we will post notice to the public as to when we are going to reconvene. For those who are testifying, we're going to limit testimony to one minute per person. We have three items on this agenda.

The first one is Senate Bill 1221 relating to storm water management systems. First on our testifiers list we have Kenneth Fink from the Department of Health has submitted commentary. Linda Eastman in support. I have Tanya Ching is- has indicated she might be joining us, but no Tanya Ching.

I have Members another 12 individuals all in support of 1221. Is there anyone else here that would like to testify on 1221? Yeah, of course.

Oh, yes I can.

I'm so sorry.

Not a problem.

I brought show and tell.

Okay. We love show and tell.

For the benefit. If you can turn to the page that has a tape in it. I- A lot of people don't understand what retention and detention cons look like. So I wanted you to see my daughter who is named.

The bill is inspired by the story of her death and her saving another child in a flooded and poorly maintained detention pond. You can see the picture of her next to the pond that was flooded. It flooded because the pipe in the pond was 89% clogged.

And the developers actually knew that the pipe was clogged and they decided that the cost to fix it outweighed the liabilities. We had an email of that. They were wrong. And so basically that clog turned an area of rolling hills between the playground and backyards into a death pit.

And even the people who went in to try to find her, it took them more than 10 minutes. And the adult that found her needed help to get out of the pond. We need a comprehensive statewide solution for detention ponds. With climate change, we're seeing many more of them built.

The other show and tell that I gave you is the picture just last year of the pond where she died. It's now fenced, but the grass has grown up so much around inside the pond that you can see it's blocking the drains. That's why

that's another reason they know that she died there and still it's not being maintained. That's another reason we need a comprehensive solution. It needs to be a statewide common sense solution. And frankly, all the things that are being asked for in this bill are things they should be doing already.

The one thing I would like to say is I think SB1221 should include also the survey that's in SB1222 to allow for a phased in response to existing retention and detention ponds.

Okay. Thank you.

Allison, sorry, your time is up.

Thank you. Is there someone else that like to testify this measure?

Hello, my name is Kirsten Hermstead. I'm the Executive Director of the Hawaiian Lifeguard Association. We're strongly in support of this- both bills 221 and 222 maybe combine them. There's kind of nuances that should maybe be combined as you work through it. We recently- we're a statewide nonprofit, so we represent all lifeguards in the State of Hawaii.

And our primary focus is on water safety, education and injury prevention. Right. So prevention is the key to lowering the stats on drowning here in Hawaii. I think you guys have heard that we have the highest, second highest drowning rate in the country. It's the number one cause of death for our children ages 1 to 15.

And Pacific Islanders drown and- and Hawaiians drown at a higher rate per capita than any other ethnic group in the state. So we're in full support of this. We understand that it's not just an ocean issue, water safety, it's also an aquatic issue, which means ponds, rivers and pools. And so we strongly support. And so anyway, that's it.

We just really want you to know that from a lifeguard point of view, this is a beautiful piece of prevention and can do- go a long way to making sure that our community is safe. Thank you.

Thank you, Kirsten. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on Senate Bill 1221? Now Members, any questions? Allison? Allison. So right now this bill puts the inspections and responsibility under the Department of Health.

And they say they have no expertise and they pretty much say they don't want this responsibility and think that this, the counties should be the ones since they're the ones that permit the retention and detention ponds to be the ones that do the follow up assessment. And what are your thoughts on that?

Should we have the counties in charge of doing that?

I think we need a comprehensive statewide solution. As long as it's a statewide mandate, that would be okay. Alternately, we could also consider the DLNR who is I think already inspecting dams and reservoirs. The one thing I just want to make clear is I think we need a comprehensive statewide solution.

And the reason we need that is because all of our children deserve equal protection. And if some of the counties, it would take a long time with each county to get the rules permitted, and they may not all be the same. And we should-

It would be easier also for people to understand the warnings if they're consistent messaging throughout the state. So that's my primary concern. I also think that we need to make sure that they have the ability to perform that- that duty and that there's some funding in there for them to scale up that responsibility.

It's a really important job throughout the state.

Yeah, because you bring up a good point. And my staff looked into just dams and who oversees dams. And in that particular case, Gila NAR is the one that permits them, as well as just checks up on the ability for the dams to hold back the water behind them.

So maybe we'll change the responsibilities from Department of Health to Gila NAR. Since they have a little bit more expertise in this area than the Department of Health does. But. Okay. Thank you, Members. Any further questions? No. No. Okay. Next measure, very similar is Senate Bill 1222.

And we have, on our testifiers list, Kenneth Fink from the Department of Health has submitted commentary and suggested amendments. Kirsten Hermstad. Okay. And we have Allison Schafers.

The only thing I would like to say is I would like you either to consider passing both bills or to combine them. The survey response is a very important piece in 1221, but in 1222, it outlines inspection responsibilities. The other Bill does a better job outlining the safety requirements.

I feel like either both should be passed, or they should be combined, so that we have a more comprehensive piece of legislation that's more specific to the problems and how to address them.

Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on SB 1222? If not, Members, any questions? Okay, I'm going to just hand the last Bill over to Chair San Buenaventura.

Thank you. 1432, relating to changes to responsibilities of the Department of Health concerning patients, the County of Kalawa, and the Kalaupapa settlement. First up, we have Department of Health and support.

Good afternoon, chairs. Vice Chair, thank you for hearing this bill. My name is Diana Felton. I'm the administrator of the Communicable Disease and Public Health Nursing Division at DOH that oversees the Hansen's Disease Branch.

DOH stands on our written testimony in support of this bill in an effort to start the conversation about changes to DOH's responsibilities after there are no longer patients at Kalaupapa. Happy to answer any questions.

Okay, thank you very much. Next, we have Jessica Puff in support for DLNR thank you very much. Department of Hawaiian Homelands providing comments. Okay, thank you very much. Keani Rawlins Fernandez providing comments. Keani, please.

Aloha chairs San Buena-Ventura and Wa Kai Vice chairs and honorable committee members I am Maui County Council Member Keani Rollins Fernandez and Kupa of Molokai. Mahalo for this opportunity to provide testimony on SB 1432, respectfully asking you to defer this measure this session. Mahalo to

Dr. Felton and the Department of Health for introducing this measure and for starting this important discussion. The broader Molokai community and our county government have not had the opportunity to fully discuss the implications related to this bill and having more time to plan through the details would be appreciated.

At the end of last year, the state and federal agencies for the first time hosted a meeting topside Molokai. The purpose of that meeting was to present the history of agencies involvement on the Makanalua Peninsula and greater jurisdiction under Kalaua County. But we did not discuss the future at that meeting.

I volunteered to spearhead facilitating those future discussions. This morning I held a first meeting with some of our agencies in my council Committee Komike Aloha Ina to provide updates and plan next steps for my colleagues and constituents. Mahalo for your consideration in giving us a little more time.

Thank you. Okay, next up we have Mayor Bisson providing comments for the County of Maui not present. Next we have Valerie Monson for Ka Ohana o Kalaupapa providing comments.

Please proceed. Valerie Aloha, Chairwoman San Buen-Ventura, Senator Wakai and Committee Members. Thank you for hearing bill Senate Bill 1432 and giving us the opportunity to learn more about plans for the future of Kalaupapa. Even though government officials have been meeting for many years about this important transition, the public has no real knowledge of what is being discussed.

I'm Executive Director of KaOhana o Kaulapapa, a 501C3 nonprofit organization created by the residents of Kalaupapa in 2003. We are made up of Kalapapa residents, descendants, family members and friends of the community. Those of us with the Ohana have a great deal of expertise and experiences that would help this government transition team plan a better future.

People on Upper Molokai have a wealth of knowledge and must be involved in planning the future of a significant part of their island. Because 1300 acres of the Kalapapa Peninsula are designated as Hawaiian homelands, beneficiaries might also request to be included. Many people will be affected by the summary.

I need you to wrap up. We have your written testimony and we Also have the Gray over here in person.

We also support what Council Member Rawlins Fernandez just recommended to defer. To allow the public discussion to continue or to keep. To. To start.

Okay, thank you very much. Mahalo. Okay, next we have the Gray. Vanderbilt, come on up.

Thank you Chair, for allowing me to bring my friend up.

Yes.

Aloha Chair San Buena-Ventura and Chair Wakai and Members of the committees. My name is Degree Vanderbilt. My friend here is Bugi Kahilihiva. He's our past President of Kaohana. Okalapapu passed away a little bit, but I. My testimony, of course, I support what Valerie said, and I really put my testimony in. So the.

The wording was more formally presented for you to look at. And. And I really wanted to emphasize the fact that. That there.

There's six organizations that are operating at Kalapapa by government statute, and two of them are by congressional statute, NPS and Kaohana, and the others are.DHHL, DLNR, and they're all by state statute. Yet Ka Ohana has not been included on the transition team. And. And I.

I hope that you all were able to just see all what we've done over the years. We put this package together for you, and I delivered it to the offices. But anyway, I just want to hope that you support, if it moves forward, that you support this amendment, that we.

So thank you very much, and thank you for letting me bring my friend up.

Thank you very much. All right. Okay, next up, we have Kehaulani Lum providing comments. Kehaulani, please proceed. We've had Valerie, and we also have your written testimony.

Yes, Aloha, Maika Culture San Buena-Ventura and Chair Wakai. I'm calling from Aiea, but I am a descendant of Henri Nala, who spent 75 years under care by the Department at Kalaupapa and beyond.

His two sisters, Evelyn and Christina, who were exiled at ages 16, at 9 and died there, and Uncle Joe Palau, who lasted for less than eight years, have come just to have to make sure that their voice is heard.

What degree mentioned about Kaohana being made a stakeholder by federal statute is very critical information for the Committee, I believe. I feel like without it, we remain invisible, and they, more importantly, remain invisible, and the stigma that they face continues. So I stand on my testimony and am really grateful to you all for.

For caring about the transition, but also to please ensure that the impact of the forced relocation can actually be healed. And without our voices there, I don't see how that can happen. Mahalo Nui.

Thank you very much. Next we have Ronnie Inagi in opposition. Anybody else wishing testify in SB 1432? Members, any questions? Members, any questions? Question? Yeah, I figured you would come on up. I mean, go ahead. Department of Health.

So. So to what extent has the community yet been involved in planning for the transfer from DOH to the county?

Excuse me, the. So for the transfer from DOH to potentially the County of Maui, as is in this first version of the bill, we've had multiple discussions with stakeholders. We held a community meeting in October on topside of Molokai and there has been discussion of ongoing community meetings to discuss further details.

Those have not yet begun, but I believe are still planned. And really everything in the bill is sort of a summary of years and years of gathering information from the community, both through the onset of the national park that was started, you know, by the patients and moving through all the years.

So from your assessment, has the community meetings been supportive of this transfer or not?

I think it's a really mixed. I think there's a lot of people have really different viewpoints and in fact we discussed this issue at a Maui County Council meeting this morning. And you had people in strong support of joining with Maui. They felt like they wanted the county to be all together.

There were others who want, you know, an individual County of Molokai and sort of multiple other viewpoints. So I can't speak for the entire community. I think there's definitely viewpoints on both sides.

So the last patients happen to pass. Are you guys ready for the transfer?

I think we are. It's an impossible situation to plan every last detail, but I think we have a fairly good strategy and plan set up. Since 1980 when the National Park Service began their work there. The plan was for DOH's operations to transfer to the National Park Service.

And we've transferred a large portion of our operations, except certainly not the patient care activities. So there will be work to do. Part of the reason to have the bill go into effect a year after is for us, give us some time.

We have about a two year timeline of where we think we can complete all of our responsibilities that will be completed.

And then there's the ongoing responsibilities that we will maintain there, the usual environmental monitoring that DOH does across the the state, and then also the specific remediation projects that we're planning to continue that we realize may outlast the patients there.

Is it the state's responsibility also to continue with the financial support or is this the county's whose Responsibility on the. Financial side, I think that's a really good question.

Some of that is going to depend on what the county's responsibilities actually look like. Most of our expenses currently are related to patient care. Paying our nurses, maintaining our care home, medications, transporting our patients, feeding them, all of our staff, housing our staff. Many of those things will go away when there's no longer patients.

And then some of the things like the upkeep of the houses where our staff lives and such will likely be transferred to the National Park Service, as has been in place since the 80s. So it sort of depends on what responsibilities the county would need to maintain.

If they have normal county responsibilities down there, like they do, say in Lahaina or Kahului, that's going to be a pretty significant expense. And they probably will need personnel and such there.

But if those responsibilities like taxation and zoning and DMV and alcohol licensing, those kinds of things, if they're exempted from this region, as they are for Kalawa County, then I think the expense and costs actually to the county could be quite Low.

Okay, so can you come back to this Committee and give us some breakdown of the cost of whatever the county going be responsible financially, as well as what the state will be held financially accountable for?

We will certainly give it our best bet. I think, again, it depends on what the county decides for now, like road maintenance, for example, usual county activity. National Park Service does that.

So we'll try and break it down looking at national parks expenses and our expenses, and try and put together a table that shows the different options as far as what the county would take on. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much. Stick around. Okay. Thank you. I have questions. Yeah. Okay. I just want to make sure that if the bill passes, that the conversation continues. Right. Because that's my understanding. When I say, see this is that the. The various stakeholders, which I.

I understand that on page seven, include Kaana o Kalaupapa, will continue to be consulted.

Yep. And I want to be really clear. This Bill does not address future activities at Kalaupa. Right? It does. It purely addresses DOH. And what would change for DOH? The questions of land use, the questions of activity at Kalaupapa, those are still in process through the different agencies and groups that will be involved at that time.

National Park Service, Department of Hawaiian Homelands. Exactly.

The County of Maui.

And I know that the homelands has plans for beneficiary consultation. Very important. I have heard that DLNR also has plans for further community meetings. Meetings and then County of Maui of Course would want. Would want to. And we'd be happy to be involved.

We just don't feel we're in a position to make the decisions about the future activities since we will likely be less playing much less of a role.

And just to ensure the stakeholders we see they're very coming all the way here from Molokai that the conversations continue. Do you have any concerns about their proposed amendments to basically ensure that Kaohana o Kalaupapa in a topside community organization will continue to be consulted during this transition period?

I don't have concerns. I think there's a little bit of misconception that there's a transition team that's actively planning the future of Kalapapa. That is not the case. But their input, their expertise, very important.

But also we would want to make sure that we consult every Member of the public that's interested in addition to those very important organizations.

Thank you very much. Follow up, please. Yes, please. So, you know, we've had this conversation before, which is why I asked what was the cost to the state? Because we went down to Kalaupapa and we looked at some of the buildings and I believe at that time we asked, and Senator Favela joined us as well.

What was the state's plan? Do we have a state plan as.

Far as the buildings go as far.

As Kalaupapa in General? What is the state's plan?

On behalf of Department My understanding of the state's plan is that things will carry on very much the way they are now. The National Park Service is least the operations from DHHL for the their section DLNR and their cooperative agreement.

I don't think you understand me, so I get that part what you're saying, but where is that physical plan that you guys are looking at for the state going forward?

I guess I'm a little confused. What kind of information would you want in the plan, like the buildings in.

Itself, whatever we are responsible for now. And then as the last person passes the transfer over, if that is to occur, what is our plan? Are we still involved? We're not involved, which is why I've asked you about the cost of it. Where are we going with that?

So we do have a list of the tasks on our website that I can send to you. A list of all the things that DOH is responsible for now as well as the other entities, and then who we think should be the. The entity to take them over afterwards. So that plan is relatively set.

It's not as detailed as you described. We can certainly work on. On Filling out the details.

I really think the details is the key to all of this because all too often the fine print is not so fine. So can you get that to us as well?

Yeah, I may.

If it's okay, I may ask you some follow up questions to make sure we get you what you're looking for.

Thank you, Chair.

I have a question, but you gotta go. But that's okay.

Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Seeing none. Can we roll to decision making?

Okay. Can we do that offline? Yes. Thank you very much. Okay. Any other questions?

Let's roll. Okay. Please proceed. Your first one. Okay. For Senate Bill 1221 and SB 1222, these are very similar bills addressing the same issues. I'd like to combine everything into Senate Bill 1221.

And more specifically on what we're going to combine is we're going to in 1221 change all the responsibilities from the Department of Health to the Department of Land and Natural Resources.

As was mentioned earlier, DLNR has some level of expertise in kind of maintaining and looking over bodies of water because they're the ones that permit dams as well as check on the dams in our state. So we're going to change all the language to DLNR.

I'm sure they're going to be super thrilled about this new responsibility. And to make them happy, we're going to add two positions for them to have take on this new responsibility. And also take the language from 1221 which talks about also examining existing dams.

Because in 1221 it only talks about future, you know, ponding detention ponds and reservoirs doesn't really outline that. We have to look at existing ones. So we're going to make that really specific that any detention ponds now as well as those in the future will all have to be subjected to the language here in 1221.

And we are also going to defect the date to May 13, 2040. So with those amendments, any discussion? No. If not Senator Chang, I vote yes.

For the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental. Affairs, recommendation for SB 1221 is to pass with amendments. [Roll Call] Recommendation is adopted.

Great. Thank you.

So for Health and Human Services, don't I have to.

So I'm just going to just say that for, just to put on the record. So Members for SB 1222, we are going to defer any action on that measure. Okay. Thank you very much.

So voting on SB 1221, Chair's recommendation. I was getting hit. I'm sorry. Sheriff's recommendation is to pass with the amendment stated by Chair Wakai. Are you done with the amendment? I'm done. Okay, Chair votes Aye. Vice Chair for the vote.

All right. SB 1221 for community on health and. Human services or chairs organizations passed with amendments. [Roll Call] Chair, recommendations adopted.

Okay. Sorry for getting ahead of myself. So Back to the second measure on the agenda, Senate Bill 1222. The decision has been deferred with my co chair and we've decided to defer action on that measure. Okay, thank you very much.

So for SB number 1432, Chair's recommendation is. Is to pass this with amendments. We're. We are going to accept Ohana Okalau Papa's proposed amendments and basically. But we're also going to put in a defect date to continue on the conversation and any comments, questions or concerns.

Basically we are going to accept Kaohana Okalopapa and insert the word other on part one, section one, page two, line one, so that it would be.

The Legislator further finds that there are other many other stakeholders that care about the future of the Kalamapapa settlement and the preservation of the historical culture and environmental significance of County of Kalawa and add language stating to include Ka Ohana o Kalaupapa and a topside community organization to be selected by Department of Health in consultation with the Molokai community on the current transition planning team that consists solely of government agencies.

And we're also going to add in a a definition of what topside community is to be that of Molokai outside of Kalawa County. Any comments, questions or concerns. Excuse me. Go ahead.

Chair. I would like the Committee report to reflect that the three different state departments which would include DHHL, DLNR and the Department of Health reflect a state plan with the details outlining exactly what is going forward.

Instead of working in the silos, they should be having a united front and then for us to get a better handle on the transfer prior to having those. I mean making sure those details are there prior to that transfer.

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, so based. Any other comments, questions or concerns?

Yeah, so my concern is since we left Kalapapa, nothing was done. Department of Health was told there. So in the notes that we like. They never came to this body to ask for money for upkeep. Kalapapa and all those houses are falling apart. So they say put on the record that they need to expedite those things too.

That is very important to our community. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you very much. So we are going to reflect Senator Decoit the community report will reflect Senator Decoy's concerns that the Department of Health, DLNR and Department of Hawaiian Homelands will create a plan prior to any transition and report back to the Legislator within 20 days of the next legislative session. Is that okay?

With the details with the financial details as requested also by Senator Fevella as to what is required of the state. Any comment? Any other comments, questions or concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote passed with amendments.

SB 1432 Committee on Health and Human Services Chairs Recommendations passed with amendments. [Roll Call] Chair Recommendations adopted.

For EIG Committee, same recommendation. Any discussion? If not Senator Chen? I vote yes.

SB 1432 for the EIG Committee recommendation has to pass the amendments. [Roll Call] Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. We are adjourned. Thank you.

Foreign thank you for your patience. We are convening the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental affairs and our good friends from the Committee on Agriculture and Environment. It is close to 3:10 on this Thursday, February 6th and we are in room 016.

We have one item on this agenda—that is Senate Bill 1339, relating to the—to a program to characterize carbon sequestration potential and underground water resources, statewide. First on our testifiers list, we have Jimmy Tokioka, from DBIF. Has submitted testimony in support. Mark Glick.

Aloha, Chair Gabbard, Chair Wakai, Vice Chairs, Members of the Committee. Mark Glick, Chief Energy Officer. I stand by our testimony in support but just wanted to highlight that this is part of a coordinated effort to really move forward geothermal, among Department of Hawaiian Homelands, DBED, as well as University of Hawaii, and the Energy Office.

And it has many components. This particular Bill deals with research and we feel that needs to move forward. We also feel the other efforts, to actually conduct drilling, also should move forward, and just wanted to emphasize that—that point.

But we certainly want to ensure that one of the measures that mirror this test—this language—does move forward. So, thank you for listening to my testimony. Thank you.

Thank you, Mark. Ernie Lau has submitted commentary. Mariah Yoshizu.

Thank you, Chair. We stand on our written testimony in strong support.

That's all I have for those who have indicated you'd like to testify, considering that there are only two people out there and both of them already spoken. Any questions for our two guests?

If not, Mike, do you mind if we just roll into decisions?

Sounds good.

Okay. The two chairs have conferred just moments ago and would like to pass this measure, SB1339, with amendments. And they're going to be not technical, non substantive amendments, and we're just going to make a defective date of May 13th, 2040.

So those are the amendments. Any discussion? If not Senator Chang? I vote yes.

For SB1339. Chairs of organizations to pass amendments. Chair votes aye. Vice Chair votes aye. Senator DeCoite.

Aye.

Senator Richards is excused and Senator Canujas- Favelas excused. The recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Same recommendation for AEN any discussion? Chair votes aye. Senator.

Chair circumvention on SB1339 is passed with amendments. Chair Gabbard votes yes. Vice Chair is excused. Senator DeCoite?

Aye.

I'll vote yes. Senator Awa is excused. Recommendations adopted.

Great. Thank you. We are adjourned.

Welcome to the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs on this Thursday, February 6th at 3:00, we are in room 016 and we have one measure on this agenda. That is Senate Bill 92 relating to emergency medical response.

And Members, we heard this fill a few days ago and I've conferred with the Chair of Government Affairs and he would like to defer any action on this measure indefinitely. Any discussion? If not, thank you, Members.

We are adjourned.