Senate Standing Committee on Judiciary

Alright. Welcome everyone to the Judiciary Committee hearing this Tuesday morning at 10:00 in a different room than we're used to, 225. This is a governor's message agenda for two circuit court judges.

If we have a catastrophic Zoom side failure, we'll try again tomorrow, April 22 at 10:45AM in this room, 225. Two minute limit on testimony except for the appointees themselves, And we will not be voting today.

The vote will take place tomorrow in this room, 225. That's April 22 at 9:30am. So if you're here for the vote, it won't be today. Alright.

First up on this agenda, we have, governor's message 796 submitting for consideration and confirmation as circuit court judge of the circuit court of the second circuit for the nonlawyers.

That's the Iowa and the County Of Maui. Gubernatorial appointee Annalisa m Bernard Levy for a term to expire in ten years. First up on GM 796 is Gunnar Green or his designee in support.

Next is Gil Keith Ageron, former Chair of this committee, also in support. Former chief justice Recktenwald who is here. Would you like to testify?

Just briefly.

Sure. Come on up.

Good morning, Chair Rhodes, Vice Chair Gabbard, Members of the committee. You know, I'm very honored to be able to come here and testify in support of Annalisa Bernard Lee for position on the circuit court.

I appointed her as a district court judge about four years ago at the time. I saw great, great potential in her. She had worked both, for many years, both as a prosecutor and a public defender, so I think she's a fair person.

She can see things from multiple perspectives and come to a good outcome. She had great courtroom experience, and and she'd gotten a little bit of civil experience, particularly in family law, shortly before I appointed her.

Now, of course, as a district court judge, she's had the opportunity to sit on a wide range of matters, both criminal and civil. I think she's somebody who's a hard worker.

She's somebody who steps up, to take on task when she's asked, and she's been active in her community both with the Maui County Bar Association and the Hawaii State Bar Association and then on committees in the judiciary.

So I would strongly recommend that the committee confirm her. Okay.

Thank you very much. Next is Melgorzata Prezczynchowska in support. Valerie McKelvey in support. Magdalena Bajon in support. Peter Hume in support.

Ike Brath Herdman in support. David Jorgensen in support. Sherry Lee in support. And that's everyone except for the HSBA representative who signed up on GM796. Does anyone else like to testify on GM796?

Yeah, please. And then we'll get the person in the back there. Come no. You can go first. You're you're here.

Okay. Go ahead. Good morning.

Good morning, Chair Rhoads and Vice Chair Gabbard and honorable Members of this committee. My name is Derek Chan. I'm a retired judge. I met Annalisa Bernard Lee about twenty years ago when she applied to be my law clerk.

I knew from our interview and her tenure with me that she was an amazing woman who not only loved the law, but she had a good, good feeling about her community.

In addition, what impressed me was her politeness and professionalism, not only to her colleagues and people she worked with, but to everyone who entered our courthouse.

Throughout well, apparently, throughout the years, those high qualities have grown, and she has become a successful attorney, an excellent district court judge, and I respectfully submit that those tools.

She can carry on beyond and be an excellent circuit court judge. With that, I fully support, the governor's nomination, and I thank you all for your consideration. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. There was someone in the back that would like to testify too. Good morning.

Thank you, Chairman Rhodes and Members of the committee. My name is Carmel Kwok, and I am an attorney. I write to express my strong and unequivocal support for the confirmation of Anna Bernard to serve as circuit court judge.

I have known miss Bernard for twenty six years, beginning in law school and then continuing through our time together at the office of the public defender and then up until now. Early in my career, she played a meaningful role in shaping my professional path.

She mentored me. She helped me secure my first clerkship, Chech Chan, and supported my entry into the office of public defender. Her guidance had a lasting impact on my development as an attorney.

I vividly recall the conversation we had while working as attorneys at the office of the public defender when she said that one day, we would be the ones wearing the black robe.

While that path ultimately came to fruition for her, that moment reflects her foresight, her ambition, and unwavering commitment to public service.

Over the years, I have had the privilege of watching her build an extraordinary and intentional career. She has served in criminal defense, prosecution, and private practice, gaining a breadth of experience that few candidates, I feel, can match.

This was not, opportunistic. It was purposeful. From early on, she was clear about her goal of becoming a judge, and she pursued that goal with focus and determination.

I have been fortunate to have miss Bernard as a guiding influence in my career, and her judgment in counsel has never steered me wrong. If confirmed as a circuit court judge, I'm confident she will provide that same steady leadership from the bench.

She has the strength to stand firm when decisions are difficult, the clarity to guide others to complex issues, and the commitment to ensure that no one appearing before her is overlooked overlooked or unheard.

These qualities grounded in integrity, courage and fairness are exactly what we should expect in a judge. Miss Bernard combines legal skill with sound judgment, professionalism, and integrity.

She understands the justice system from multiple perspectives and brings both empathy and discipline to her work.

Your time has expired. Thank you very much.

I just ask that you confirm her.

Thank you. Anyone else like to testify in G M 796? Seeing none, members questions for these testify any of these testifiers? If not, let's go ahead and move on to Mark K Murakami, president of the Hawaii State Bar Association. Good morning.

Good morning, Chair Rhodes, Vice Chair Gabbard, Members of the committee, Mark K Murakami on behalf of the Hawaii State Bar Association. As set forth in our testimony, we have gone through our rigorous normal process, and we found the candidate to be qualified.

K. Great.

Thank you.

Members, any questions for Mr. Murakami? Okay. Thank you. Judge, if you'd like to come up. I'm sorry.

That's all it's a terrible thing to say in this room. Judge Lee, would you like to come up?

Go ahead. Good morning.

Thank you.

Alright. Good morning. Aloha, Chair Rhodes, Vice Chair Gabbard, and Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. I am deeply grateful to appear before you today as governor Greene's nominee to the circuit court of the second circuit,

position I humbly seek your vote to confirm. I wanna begin by thanking governor Greene for placing his trust in me and, my friends, family, and colleagues who reached out with such an outpouring of congratulations, aloha, and support upon learning of my nomination.

It reaffirmed once again why I chose to do this work. I do it for my family, my island, and to serve the community that raised me. I was born and raised on the island of Maui,

the daughter of a Hawaiian Puerto Rican father whose roots trace back to the plantation era, and a mother who came to these islands as an immigrant from The Philippines. My parents both worked two jobs to support my family.

And in doing so, they taught me what dedication, sacrifice, and humility look like. My upbringing is the foundation of everything I believe about service, compassion, and what justice is supposed to look like.

These values are the reason I have committed myself to a lifetime of public service. Throughout my career I was a law clerk for the honorable, Derek Chan and Mike Michael Towne, who are both now retired.

I was a public defender for ten years and a prosecuting attorney for six years. And I'm now a sitting district court judge for just under four years. As a law clerk, I learned how a courtroom is run from the inside out.

As a deputy public defender, I stood beside people who were indigent and couldn't afford their own attorneys, accused of crimes that they may or may not have committed. As a prosecuting attorney, I handled career criminal felony matters.

I was part of the sex assault unit, and, I gave a voice to those who were harmed in the worst ways imaginable. And I also held accountable those who caused that harm.

Having served on every side of the courtroom, I have gained a perspective as a judge that I could not have obtained any other way.

One that informs how I listen, how I weigh the law, and how I strive to ensure that everyone that comes before me is treated with fairness, understanding, and meaningful access to justice.

These are the values that I have applied every day since I have been on the bench as a district court judge, whether, criminal matters, landlord tenant cases, small claims, civil proceedings, or TRO hearings.

I have approached every case as a responsibility to my community, never losing sight of the fact that behind every file is a person whose life will be profoundly affected by my decisions in my courtroom.

It is that same preparation, work ethic, and commitment to the rule of law that I will carry with me to circuit court. My roots in Maui and my commitment to my island run deeper than I could ever fully express.

I chose to come home to serve the place that shaped me, to raise my children there. I have watched my island grow and grieve and rebuild. Serving Maui Nui at this next level means something deeper than a title or a position.

It is a personal responsibility to my family, my community, my home.

It would be an honor to serve the people of the second circuit, Lanai, Molokai, and Maui as their next circuit court judge. And I am deeply grateful for your time and your consideration, and I do humbly ask for your support and vote. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Members, questions?

Yeah. I do.

Senator San Buenaventura.

Okay. Thank you, Judge Lee, and thank you for, speaking with me prior to today. I've expressed my opinions as a former litigant, and it's it seems like to me you have from all of the people who have testified,

you've stepped up to the task of being an excellent district court judge. However, this is gonna be circuit court. Stakes are higher.

I'm talking about jury tiles, appeals from administrative orders. And so as a legislator, I see a judge as being more than a referee, which you had to do a lot of in district court.

I understand that with trial, it's a people's court, and there's a lot of refereeing, but you're gonna be a circuit court judge. One of my requests is that because it looks like there's nothing stopping your confirmation here.

It's a commitment from you to use your power as a judge because we are empowering you by confirming you in the Senate floor with the power, to use, your position wisely and more than just as a referee.

And one example of that, as we had discussed earlier, is how you could use your power to divert more than you folks are doing now. Okay? And we've discussed that.

The legislator can only do so much as far as passing laws like ACT, and we depend upon the courts to run with the ball. And we're giving you the power.

So may we have your commitment, okay, to we talked about Judge Lightman from Florida Yes. And how he was able to, without statutes, get collaborative agreements. Okay.

My request is that such collaborative agreements start occurring sooner rather than later because you have the power to do that.

I understand. Yes, Senator.

Okay. You have the power to ask for more pretrial conferences sooner rather than later. Right. And and you can have these conferences to determine whether or not there is room, outside of the judicial proceeding where we can divert, especially,

petty misdemeanors, nonviolent criminals because we can only hold so much within our jails.

Right.

So do I have that commitment from you?

Have my commitment from you. I appreciate the conversation that you and I had, and this is something that's meaningful to me as well. So you absolutely have my commitment for all of those things, and I look forward to talking with you more about it in the future.

K. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

Members of the questions? Senator Gabbard.

Yes. Judge Lee, when we met on Zoom, I'd asked you the question, could you describe a moment on the bench in district court where your personal values were tested and how you dealt with that? And would you mind sharing that with the community?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, I am part Hawaiian, and I do have people who come before me who want to assert certain cultural rights, which they should and can.

So I had a gentleman who came before me who was constantly being cited by the DLNR for closed parks or being in areas where he's not supposed to be.

And in this particular case, he kept going to a closed park and saying that he was asserting his native Hawaiian rights. So he came before me in trial.

I found him guilty, but I explained to him as a native Hawaiian as well that I understand what he's trying to do. And I actually laid out the law for him and said, these are our cultural rights. This is how we can assert it, but what you're doing is not that.

And I explained to him that he needs to be about his choices and that others can try to copy him and mimic him, and what's that gonna do? This was he was going to a native Hawaiian burial site in his four by four truck and saying that he was asserting his cultural rights.

So I explained to him, what the cultural rights were and how his actions were, not quite doing that. And he again, he was found guilty, but at the end, he thanked me. And he really appreciated, I guess, the education that I gave him.

So that was a moment that I felt that I had had a meaningful experience with a person who was found guilty, but I was able to educate in a way that showed him aloha as well.

Thank you, Thank you, Chair.

Thanks. Other Thanks, sir.

Thank you, judge, for your willingness to step up. Actually, both judges today, you've both served as both public defenders and prosecutors. You started out as a public defender, and you made the decision to switch to the prosecutor's office.

Can you explain that decision and why you made it, and if there's anything that the state should be considering?

Well, I yes. I was a public defender for ten years. It was a very meaningful time in my life where I upheld the constitution. I represented people who, sometimes were falsely accused of crimes.

I learned a lot, and, I felt that I was representing, my community well.

Unfortunately, the public defender's office doesn't get paid as well as I would have liked in terms of having a family and buying a house.

The public the prosecuting attorney at the time offered me a position as a deputy prosecuting attorney. I talked to a lot of my mentors, and they suggested that that would be, good for my career because as a public defender, I learned how to defend cases.

As a prosecuting attorney, you learn how to, build cases and investigate, and you can, do just as good work because you have the discretion to, to prosecute a case or not.

And so there were just a number of factors that I considered in moving over to the prosecutor's office.

I'm very glad that I did, because as much as I appreciated being a public defender, I also appreciated being a prosecuting attorney. And I did learn a lot. I felt that I was doing just as much good service in my community, and I find both sides very valuable.

So I'm thankful for the experience that I've had at both the public defenders and prosecutors office.

Is it true that some county prosecutors are now making more than the judges that they're appearing before? And is it also true that the public defender's office lacks resources, for example, to hire experts and pay their expensive fees and fly them from, say, the other 49 states?

The counties have gotten raises, and I think that maybe the heads the heads of the offices currently do make their salary maybe more than some of the district court and family court judges who also have gotten raises.

So those raises will eventually increase as well. Unfortunately, I think nationwide, public defender's offices are known to have a lack of resources, and they don't get paid as much. They're, you know, they're they're known to be overworked and over underpaid.

And a lot of times, the counties do fund more for their county. They get grants to you know, for for victims and for DUIs and other interests that the county wants to help protect and serve their community.

So I think nationwide, that is, there is a discrepancy between the amount of money that public defenders and prosecutors get paid.

Thank you. You're welcome.

Thanks. Any other any other questions? I have a couple for you or at least one. So in the circuit court, you I'm I forget it. The second circuit, you are are you gonna have a criminal calendar and a civil calendar?

I will. Yes.

Okay. So on the criminal calendar side, when you get a case where let's just say for hypothetical purposes that it's a fairly low level felony, a class c felony, that's the lowest level felony, so I guess that's be more specific.

And the person is convicted, jury trial or bench trial doesn't matter. And then when you're looking at sentencing and the person has, I don't know, 10, 15, 20, 60, a 100 prior convictions, What do you do with that?

And the and and my caveat would be that I agree with Senator San Buenaventura about the diversion.

I think that getting to the root of people's problems is much more effective in the long run because if you don't, they just come back and do the same thing over and over again.

But there are situations where someone who's convicted of something, when you look at their criminal record, is lengthy. What do you do?

Yeah. Well, everything is you know, I as a judge and in district court and would do the same in circuit court would take every matter case by case.

But in in looking at the individual before me, I do look at their criminal history, and I look at what the crime is and how it affected the community and the victims, if they have a lengthy criminal record that says something,

that says that they're continuing the pattern and, you know, simply looking at the the sentencing history, something has to change. So it's important to hold someone accountable, but also try to look to the root of the issue.

And if that means putting them on probation and helping them get services and rehabilitation for whatever their underlying issue may be,

whether it be needing mental health services or anger management or getting them connected to services throughout the community, maybe that would help them stop offending.

If it if they've already done that and they've had those chances, then then, you know, jail is sometimes the option.

Sometimes if a person continues to repeat the patterns and they've gotten chances to rehabilitate and they're not doing so, then prison is what needs to happen.

Okay. So in terms of I mean, you've had pretty broad experience through the through the criminal system. Do you think that judges currently are too, too soft or too too hard or and so that's one that's not a very weighted way to phrase it.

Do you think the the system is too lenient on criminal defendants now, or do you think it's too harsh on criminal defendants, or is it a case by case basis?

I think it's case by case. I mean, I think judges tend to want to hold someone accountable and also get them services and help if they can.

So if it's a first offender, we're gonna wanna give someone the chance to get rehabilitated in the community on probation or otherwise.

But again, when you look at someone's criminal history and they've already gotten their chances and they keep reoffending and they're a danger to the community, then it's time to send them to prison.

And that's what I feel like, you know, that's what most judges do throughout our state.

Okay. So in terms of your I understand this is totally anecdotal from your personal experience, but in terms of the way you how does the public view the judiciary system in terms of leniency versus making people sort of long print prison sentences?

You do do you think that the public thinks that you're you're too lenient, or do you think they think you're too harsh? Are you meaning all the judges, all 82 of them, however many they are?

I think people who are the most vocal are are the people who think that perhaps judges are too lenient, and they would rather see someone put behind bars if they keep reoffending then have them out in the community and given multiple chances.

But I'm only speaking from, like I said, people who are the most vocal. Usually, you know, it's a squeaky wheel who gets hurt the most. So I can't speak for what the public thinks.

I only know what I hear from my own family and friends. And if I read a news article online and there's comments, I can read what the public comments are. But oftentimes, the comments are are not a a good reflection of, I think, our entire community.

I think it's just people who sometimes just wanna voice their opinions and tend to be the ones that are the loudest.

Okay. So that yeah. Okay. We we don't have to give any other question. Alright.

I think that's it for me. Other questions, Members?

Yes. So thank you. Just a follow-up. And again, you know, it speaks volumes to me that we haven't heard anything negative about you from litigants, especially because as a judge, you had to make hard decisions where people lose,

and some of those people could be vocal. But I guess for the same commitment that I'm requesting that you look into diversion, my next request is similar to what Senator Gabbard says, where your values are gonna be tested.

And one of the I believe a judge's values is is to decide the case on its merits regardless of how loud the public opinions are regarding the case. I think will I have that commitment from you?

Have my commitment on that. Okay. Yes.

And that's the reason why we have judicial appointments rather than elective of judges in in the state of Hawaii. Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Other questions, Members? If not, thank you very much. We'll go ahead and move on to the next governor's message, which is seven ninety seven.

This is submitting for consideration confirmation of circuit court judge in the fifth the circuit court of the fifth circuit, which is the island island of Kauai and Ni'eau, I guess. Gubernatorial appointee Michael K Soon for a period to for a term to expire in ten years.

First up on GM 797 is governor Green in support and former chief justice Recktenwald, if you'd like to comment. Morning again.

Morning, Chair Rhodes, Vice Chair Gabbard, members of the committee. You know, it's my honor to be able to testify in support of Mike Soong for a circuit court position. I appointed him as a district court judge back in 2017.

I thought at that time, we were getting somebody with, amazing background, long time practitioner in the community. He had civil background, had, worked as a court counsel early in his career.

I believe he had some public defender work early in his career, but had been a longtime prosecutor, including the elected prosecutor on Kauai before going into private practice and then getting appointed.

So he's somebody with great knowledge of that community, a great experience developed over many, many years, and I think my faith in him has been fully repaid over the years.

He because Kauai is a small circuit and we have a number of statewide initiatives, he had to step up over and over and over again to serve on a variety of committees, committees that look at how technology can make proceedings in our district courts more fair, access to justice,

training for judges, all of these things he stepped up and did without complaint when I asked him on top of his duties in the courtroom. Everything I've heard about his performance in the courtroom has been positive. I think people respect him.

They respect the way he controls a courtroom. He's got a great amount of, I think, Gravitas, common sense, and an ability to relate to people. All of that will translate very well, onto the circuit court bench.

And, really, one thing I wanna emphasize is at the in the latter half of last year, both he, both judge as Felenciano and Wataname retired. We didn't have a full time circuit court judge, on Kauai.

He stepped up and, appointed him as the acting chief judge, and he led led that team brilliantly, brought it together, and helped steady the ship through those times. So I could say the next thing I said, it's really important.

So I have to cut you off too.

Cut me off. But anyway, I strongly support his appointment.

Thank you very much.

Next up is Blaine Kobayashi, retired judge, second circuit, in support. Trudy Sinda, a retired judge of fifth circuit, also in support. Kathleen Watanabe, a retired judge, fifth circuit, in support. And Riley Smith in support.

Also, we have Michael Chun in support, Tyler Saito in support, and that's everyone who signed up except for the HSBA president on GM seven ninety seven.

Would anyone else like to testify on GM 797? Yep. Come on, Trish. Morning again.

Morning again, Chair. I first met Mike when you were early on in our practice in law. We became good friends. We played on the same maternity league softball team, and we did a lot of other fun things as as I guess younger guys do, although I'm way older than him.

But I believe that I did not get to truly know judge Mike soon until he called me up. He said, hey, Derek. I want you to be my first deputy prosecuting attorney on Kauai. So I went over there, and I've known the man for years.

And here I was witnessing a hardworking individual dedicated to his community and following the rule of law. He was out there helping the community doing other things other than work, but just working twenty four seven.

I'm thinking, this man is fantastic. So these qualities, I believe, helped him get the district judgeship, and I believe his ties to the community, his love for the community, and the reputation he has as being a fair judge will only assist him in becoming an excellent circuit court judge.

With that, I fully support, judge Michael Soong, and I thank you for your consideration.

Thank you very much. Would anyone else like to

Morning again, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the committee. Mark K Murakami on behalf of the Hawaii State Bar Association. As set forth in our testimony, we've gone through our normal rigorous process and we find judge Soong to be qualified.

testify in GM 797? If not, Mark K. Murakami, president of HSPA, if you'd like to testify. Morning again.

K. Thanks very much. Members, any questions for any of the testifiers so far? K. If not, thank you.

Judge Soong, come on up. Good morning, and you're welcome to make an opening statement.

Good morning, Chair Rhoads, Vice Chair Gabbard, Members of the Committee on Judiciary. My name is Michael Soong. I was fortunate enough to be appointed as a district court judge back in 2016 by CJ Recktenwald.

I actually took the bench January 2017. So this would be my tenth year as a district court judge.

When I was appointed, there was only one district court judge on the island of Kauai on the fifth circuit. So I handled all of the calendars that district court handles. Civil calendars would include small claims matters, regular claims with jurisdiction up to 40,000, TROs and agency appeals.

The actually, the the traffic matters, the criminal matters are also civil, so we'd handle those awful also. On the criminal matter, we handle calendars.

We handle petty misdemeanors, misdemeanors, and felonies through a probable cause determination. I enjoy district court a lot.

You know, one of the unique things with district court is you deal with a lot of self represented litigants. And while it can be challenging, it's also fun to have those people come through the court.

For a lot of them, the only experience they're gonna have with the judiciary is in your district court courtroom.

So I take the time to give them their opportunity to be heard. Try to explain my ruling so that they know why if I ruled against them, explain the law and the facts and how you came to your decision.

When we would gather at our annual or semi annual judicial ed conferences with all of the judges, I would always brag that I had the best job in the entire judiciary being a district court judge in the fifth circuit on Kauai.

I made the mistake of one time telling CJ that, bragging to him about it, and I think I might have offended him. He he said, what about me?

I think I have the best job in the judiciary. And you can't argue with that, but but my job lets me live on Kauai.

So I think I still got him beat on that one. Back in August and September, our two circuit court judges retired back to back, leaving no sitting circuit court judges in our, jurisdiction.

Chief Justice Recktenwald asked me to, move up to circuit court and if I would, be willing to serve as the chief judge and administrative judge. You know, CJ has been such a great leader. You know, I couldn't say no. And so I've been in circuit court for the last this is my seventh month.

\I've actually enjoyed the the experience. On the administrative side, I've we have great people that work in the fifth circuit judiciary. Our chief court administrator tells me that the morale is improved, and she likes working with me.

She what she likes best is that I stay out of their way, and I let them do their jobs, which I think is important as an administrator. We have very good administrators, supervisors, so I trust them and I let them do their job in our circuit.

Now on the court side, circuit court has been challenging moving up from district court, especially the civil side.

The cases are much more complex, much more complicated, multiple parties in many, many cases compared to district court where the cases are generally two parties and they resolve quickly.

A trial may take an hour or or two. We do handle a mixed calendar in the fifth circuit also. So the on the civil calendar, you're gonna have all types of civil cases including probate and agency appeals.

On the criminal calendar, you handle all felonies and misdemeanor jury trial demands. I've been fortunate in the last six months that I've been there. I've had 2 jury trials that I presided over. Actually, the first day I moved up to circuit court, we started a criminal sex assault trial, jury trial.

And then, in February January and February, I got to preside on A, 2 week medical malpractice trial involving seven expert witnesses and four other doctors. It was really, really exciting, interesting. I'm also a big fan of specialty courts.

When I was district court judge, I volunteered to do the drug court. You know, I think that drug court is the model for dealing with people if if you can if you have the right people and you have the time and resources to do it.

You know, I often mentioned to the the graduates at the drug court that it is my favorite calendar to sit on, the drug court calendar, because of the amazing transformations we see in people's lives.

One of the things I usually mention at the graduation is probably the best day you can have as a as a judge is when you're doing a drug court review and one of your clients the drug court client says, hey, judge. Guess what?

I got my kids back this month. You know, you are part of that. .

You know, we also have veterans court. We have mental health calendars. We're hoping to expand to women's court, copy some of the successes that judge Morikawa has over had over here.

Judge Char, who you folks have just confirmed, she's expressed a willingness to take on, the drug court I'm sorry, the women's court. And I think the, you know, the specialty courts are really the the way to focus your resources and and get the best bang for your buck.

That was good speaking with, Judge Chan. We were reminiscing about our, days as prosecutors, back in the day. He didn't tell you, but he he used to commute every day from Honolulu to, Kauai to be first deputy over there.

And we had some really good times, good memories. Speaking to judge Chan also reminded me of a quote I used to use when I was speaking back as a prosecutor. It was a quote from Teddy Roosevelt.

President Roosevelt was speaking at a later Labor Day rally in the early nineteen hundreds. And he had said, far and away, the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing.

You know, I've I've lived that or tried to live that. I've I've been fortunate. I've had really good jobs. Being a prosecutor, being a public defender, being a district court judge, and hopefully with your support, being a circuit court judge also. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Members, questions? Well, my let me start with Senator Chang, and then I'll go to Senator San Buenaventura. Go ahead.

Thank you, judge. Thank you. You've also served as both a prosecutor and a public defender, and now you have both of them coming before you. What were the experiences that you took away from serving in both those capacities?

And today, do you feel that the resources are balanced enough that that justice is served in in most, if not all cases?

You know, first of all, from the experience you know, if you look at the big picture, in order for the criminal justice system to work, you have to have good prosecutors. You have to have good defense attorneys. Prosecutors are protecting the community.

Defense attorneys are protecting the civil constitutional rights of those that are coming throughout the system. I've I enjoyed both sides.

I enjoyed my time as a prosecutor. I equally enjoyed my time doing defense criminal defense work. In the big picture, I think the public defenders are not on the same pay scale as prosecutors, but you also have private attorneys out there that are very well paid.

So I think in the overall, the system works. You need good attorneys on both sides, and you need good judges.

Are you are you implying that those who can afford private attorneys are getting, you know, better access to justice, maybe a fairer trial than those who cannot?

You know, the public defenders are very good. I I like to think that judge Chan, judge Bernard Lee, and myself were good attorneys when we were public defenders.

And court appointed attorneys too are very good.

And and, yeah, some of the court appointed attorneys are actually private attorneys that are that are representing the indigent defendants.

So the system works. It's not the pays same pay scale apart, but there may be some advantages being a public defender that somebody would be willing to work there for a little less pay than there are, prosecutors, and I see that happening all the time.

Thank you.

Senator San Buenaventura.

Okay. Thank you very much. And so, just wanna add to your resume, which which you reminded me of when we spoke earlier back when we were baby attorneys. You were also court counsel in Hilo, but we served together for a little while.

So, your experience is varied, and, frankly, I see you as being very well qualified.

But I I'd also like to have the same kind of commitment I've asked of judge Lee, whether or not you will continue to consider diversion.

And whatever laws that we pass, to be able to run with it, to use to satisfy the needs that we are hoping in the legislator to sex to fulfill, which is hopefully more diversion, not overcrowd the system, because justice comes in many forms.

And a lot of it is, as we had spoken to earlier, also means prompt decisions. It may be a wrong decision, but a prompt decision allows people to move on.

Will you from what we talked about earlier, are you willing to commit to continue to do to consider diversion should should use your powers as a judge to have these collaborative agreements between prosecutor and defense.

Absolutely. As we discussed during our meeting, we do have diversion programs on Kauai. We have the jail diversion program for mental health nonviolent mental health defendants where we get them into services.

They're monitored by the Kauai Mental Health Center. I believe it's six months if they if they make progress, and I think everybody that's gotten into the jail diversion program has graduated, if I'm not mistaken.

After six months, the prosecutors dis dismissed the charge if they've gotten into services and maintain their treatment. The prosecutor's office also has a diversion program on their own where they'll do it at screening or at arraignment.

Certain individuals that need mental health services, if they'll just make an appointment and show up at the appointment. So at least they're connected, they'll dismiss those cases once the person makes makes the appointment.

You know, usually, they're nonviolent petite misdemeanors like trespass or something like that where somebody's at a store where they've been trespassed or property they've been trespassed.

So the prosecutors have a jail diversion their own diversion program. I also mentioned in meeting with you that when we do our mental health calendar in district court, it's it's not really adversarial. It's more non adversarial.

We have a pre hearing conference where the attorneys come in, prosecutor, defense attorneys, Kauai Health Mental Health staff is there. The doctor is there, and we go through the reports.

And in this conference room, we kinda decide what we're gonna do before we go out on the on the calendar. And it it's based on what is best for this individual.

You know, they're most of them are nonviolent petty misdemeanor, Misdemeanor Defendants, nonviolent. Of course, some of them are violent, and, you know, they've gotta go through the traditional route.

Just one follow-up. Yep. Okay. So, Judge Soong, I noticed that, compared to a number of other judges we've confirmed, that your experiences died went to multiple courts.

And one of the things we discussed is that for mental health court, and I discuss this also with Judge Lee, and seven zero four proceedings, each circuit seems to be doing their own thing.

Since you've had experiences in all, and we in the legislator, we come up with statutes that govern the entire state, my commitment, I guess, to all of you folks, because I do it with the third circuit court judges whenever I see them, is that if you see something that we

could tweak better that you believe could be applied statewide, that that you contact one of us. And hopefully, we can we can help that out. And okay. So

I'll I'll do that. And, you know, the the important part is services. If we divert them out of the court, we've gotta divert them to something that's gonna work. So we need we need support services to send them to.

Thank you very much.

Members, other questions? I have a couple. So it looks like this is a this, of course, is a ten year term that you won't be able to fill out the entire term. How much you don't have to tell us your exact birthday, but how long would you

be held? I'm 65 right now. I turned 65 in November. So I have about four and a half years left on a a term.

Okay. So you you think it's you think it's worth your time and and the the state's time to have you there for less than half the term?

I do. And, you know, I think at the the critical point we're at on the fifth circuit, we need experience. We need, you know, some leadership for the circuit, and, I've enjoyed that role so far.

Okay. So as you're changing changing gears rather dramatically, I'm sure you're aware that most states in the in the union elect their judges. Do you do you do you think do you think we should elect our judges in Hawaii? And if if so, and why?

I don't think we should elect judges in Hawaii. You know, the as as it was mentioned, the judges have to be able to make the the difficult decision, follow the law, apply the law, even if the result may be unpopular.

You know, we should be following the rule of law and making our decision based on the facts, not, yeah, I wonder if I'm gonna get elected again next term if I rule a certain way.

Okay. And then another no segue question. So on Kauai I mean, and here on here on Oahu, if someone is picked up for if there's a a question about ability to understand the charges against them and to help with their defense their the state hospital is here and there

are also Department of Health facilities that aren't the state hospital, but that mostly are on Oahu.

What happens if you get a case like that, or have you had an experience when you were covering special calendar in district court where you had a mentally ill patient that you had to you couldn't you felt that they were too dangerous to let them go.

What do you actually do with them when you're on Kauai?

You know, most of the seven zero four examinations, the the defendants are either out of custody or some of them are in custody at the correctional center. There are rare occasions where you can actually commit to the director of health during the examination.

So there there are options that that you can use. But the majority of them are are not in not at the hospital during the examination, but they may be in custody at the facility until there's a determination.

At at KCCC. So do they do they no. This isn't really your Kuleana, but if you know, does KCCC have some sort of a special wing or war that deals with mentally ill patients?

Not really. And mental health patients don't do well in in custody. A lot of times, they might even end up in solitary.

They do have rooms that they're gonna have to confine people that just aren't getting along with the the public, which is primarily why we try to divert people out of the criminal system if they're nonviolent and petty misdemeanor, misdemeanors.

They don't belong in the criminal justice system. They don't do well in the criminal justice system. If they're in custody, they they don't get along with other inmates, and they're it's not the place for them.

K. Okay. Members, other questions? Alright. Seeing none, thank you everyone for being here. And we as I mentioned before, the decision making on these two nominees will be tomorrow, April 22, 9:30am in this Room, 225.

We're adjourned. Alright. Welcome back to the Judiciary Committee. We do have an an additional hearing on one resolution, the House Concurrent Resolution 193.

This is requesting the establishment of a court security and department of law enforcement capacity working group to address systemic staffing shortages, expanded statutory responsibilities, and the escalating fiscal and accountability risks associated with private

security contracting in state courts. First up on this measure is Brandon Kimura, administrative director for the courts. Good morning.

Morning, Chair Rhodes, Vice Chair Gabbard, Member of the committee. Brandon Kimura, Administrative Director of the courts. I'm here to testify in support of the intent of the resolution.

We appreciate the legislature's attention to these important issues that are stemming from staffing shortages in the Sheriff's Division that are directly affecting the consistent and appropriate security of our state courts.

We have been and continue to work with daily leadership, in this area, and this resolution can formalize that.

We also respectfully request that this resolution not be a substitute or not be perceived as a substitute for our pending budget request relating to supplemental security services.

The request is in the necessary for immediate enhancement of security, And we also agree with the HGA that this resolution can serve to strengthen the public workforce. So with that, thank you very much.

K. Thank you. Randy Pereira, executive director for Hawaii Government Employees Association in support. That's everyone who signed up on HCR 193. Would anyone else like to testify on HCR 193 either here or on Zoom?

Seeing none, Members, any questions? Seeing none, if it's alright with everybody, we'll just go ahead and roll into decision making.

Recommendation on ACR 193 is to pass as is, but I would like to put in the committee report language reflecting Mr. Kimura's concern that does not be that this moving forward with this reso and this study group, and working group. I'm sorry.

This working group not interfere with their current budget requests, which are for of immediate concern, whereas this is a longer term look at the problem.

So that would be in the committee report. Questions or concerns? If not, Senator Gabbard.

Chair's recommendation on ACR 193 HD One is to pass unamended. [Roll Call] Measure is adopted.

K. Thanks very much everyone for being here. We're adjourned.