Senate Standing Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs

Good afternoon. We are convening this afternoon's Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs, to take up one matter that was deferred to today's agenda. And just want to note that this meeting is being streamed live on YouTube In the unlikely event that we have to end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business at the Monday, March 23, committee meeting at 3PM in Conference Room 016. And a public notice will be posted on the legislature's website.

Members, we have a measure that was deferred from our prior agenda.

This is House Bill 2413 relating to pretrial reform. We did receive a lot of testimony on the measure and chair would like to recommend that to continue the discussion, we incorporate the recommendations from the judiciary. They had a number of technical amendments. We also have a number of, technical and non-substantive amendments. So this kind of allows for more of the, discussion to continue while at the same time acknowledging the work that has taken place thus far.

Any, questions or comments? Okay. If not, then for this afternoon passing with amendments, I vote aye. Vice Chair Lee is excused. Senator Hashimoto?

No.

Aye.

Thank you. Your, I mean, my recommendation is adopted. We will briefly recess until our 03:15 committee meeting.

Senator Inouye is also excused. Senator DeCorte?

And in the unlikely event that we have to end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on Monday, March 23 at 03:00 PM. In Conference Room 016, and a public notice will be posted on the legislature's website. Each testifier will have one minute to testify. If you already have submitted written testimony, we encourage you to limit your time to highlighting, important facts or standing on your testimony.

First up is House Bill 2062 House Draft 1 relating to gun violence prevention. This measure appropriates funds to the judiciary for the efficient processing of temporary restraining orders and gun violence, protective orders. It also appropriates funds to the Department of Law Enforcement to conduct public awareness campaigns on gun violence protective orders. And first up, we have Director of, Department of Law Enforcement. Director Lambert.

We'll kind of keep going and maybe come back to him if he arrives. Next up, we have Heather Kimball testifying for Hawaii County Council. Welcome.

It's on.

Thank you. Good morning, afternoon. Apologies, Chair and members of the committee, thank you so much for providing the opportunity to provide testimony in hearing this bill regarding gun violence protective order support for community and education and outreach.

As a county council member and a close friend of many in our law enforcement agencies of the Big Island, I can tell you that this is a data driven way to reduce gun violence, and it will simply save lives. I have a very close friend who's a HPD officer who was on a call, went to the door, opened the door to a shotgun in his face. A shotgun that would have been removed by the effective implementation of the GVVO program.

There was another incident recently of a family member that shot another family member who had a long history of violence and effective implementation of GVPO would have resulted in that individual not having firearms. Not to mention the countless individuals who have taken their own lives because they've had access to firearms even though there was awareness in the family or with friends that there were substance abuse or mental issues.

This law has been proven to be legal, and so all we're asking for is support for community outreach and education to ensure that our police officers, our law enforcement entities are aware of how this program works and can implement it effectively. So I ask for your support on behalf of my community. Mahalo.

Thank you. Let's see. Next, we have testifying for Hawaii Firearms Coalition, Andrew Roberts, who submitted written testimony in opposition. I'm sorry. Is Mister Roberts available?

Not on Zoom, chair.

Okay. Thank you. If not, Susan Trombley testifying for Giffords Gun Owners for Safety. Is, that miss Trombley? Please proceed.

Aloha, Chair and committee members. My name is Susan Tremblay. I live in Kapolei. I am a gun owner. I am the mother of a school shooting survivor.

I am a retired teacher who had a student in my eighth grade classroom with a gun. I am a domestic violence survivor. I support legislation for the enforcement of gun violence protective orders to increase safety for all of us. I support legislation to conduct public awareness campaigns on gun violence protective orders. Education is essential for safety.

Protecting victims of gun violence is necessary for the safety of all of us. According to Gifford's Gun Owners for Safety research, in the United States, more than 125 people die every day from gun violence. Twenty-five million US adults have been threatened or non-fatally injured by an intimate partner with a firearm. Gun violence is the leading cause of death among all children in The United States.

Access to a gun makes it five times more likely that a woman will be killed by an abusive intimate partner.

I urge you to continue to keep our community safe. Support HB 2062. Mahalo for your time.

Thank you very much for your comments. Next, we have on behalf of Hawaii Chapter Moms Demand Action on Gun Sense in Hawaii, Terriann Mohideen. K. If not, are you online?

I'm yes. I'm here, Chair. Excuse me.

Please proceed.

Aloha, chair Fukunaga, Vice Chair Lee, members of the committee. I live here in Hawaii, and I urge you to support this bill. We already have a law on the books that could help prevent firearm suicides here in our local communities, as well as stop someone who is a known danger to others from killing our loved ones with a gun. The problem is not enough people know about it.

The information is hard to find online, and even HPD doesn't have the funds to train all their staff on it.

Let's get the word out. That is what this bill would do. If someone owned a firearm and was threatening to shoot up my child or grandchild's school here or their workplace, I would want something to be done about that ahead of time before the tragic loss of life happens. This is a law that is already in place. We are just asking to get the word out to keep our communities safe.

Mahalo for your consideration.

Thank you very much. Next we have for Hawaii State Association of Counties, Nahelani Parsons. Welcome.

Sorry. Not on Zoom, Chair.

Okay. Michael Rice. Are you Michael Rice?

Yes. Aloha. Michael Rice speaking on behalf myself. I'm testifying against this bill or at least parts of it. As in my written testimony, I mentioned how easily abused red flag laws are and how they have led to deaths in the past.

Previous testifier mentioned that a police officer had a shotgun pointed at them when they went to somebody's house. Who do you think is gonna be enforcing these red flag laws? They're not just gonna voluntarily give it up. Police officer has to go to the door and get that. Usually, it's SSD who would have to do that.

And guess what? It's gonna happen at the middle of the night. Somebody banging on your door at the middle of the night. You're gonna grab a weapon or something. And when you show up to the door with a weapon and the cops are there, put it down.

You know? So that's, that has resulted in deaths just because you don't hear somebody say through your door. There's also the controversy over whether it is a violation due process, particularly the Fourth Amendment since you do not get your day in court for this red flag law. I do not know why we need to spend all this money training people or letting people know that, hey. If somebody's threatening to shoot up a school, kill themselves, you can call the police.

...call somebody because my son said he was gonna kill himself. Thank you.

That seems like something fairly obvious. There's, like, that, you know, the excuse oh, I didn't know I could...

Thank you very much, sir.

Thank you. Next, we have Chester Holt also on Zoom.

Not on Zoom, Chair.

Is this the phone? Okay. Next, we have Tim Hoyt in person. Is he here? Okay. If not...

Available on Zoom, Chair.

Okay. If he's available on Zoom, that's fine. Welcome.

Aloha. I'm a retired police officer. During my 34 years of policing, I never responded to a single call in which a gun in the hands of a civilian helped the situation, yet I responded to hundreds of calls where a gun made a situation worse. Therefore, I am a strong supporter of gun violence prevention. Gun violence protection orders may help reduce gun violence.

It's a shame that more gun violence protection orders aren't issued due to the public and police officers not aware of them. This bill allows citizens to be made aware of these orders and for police officers to be made aware of how to enforce such orders. Therefore, I strongly support this bill. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Next, we have, John Terry on Zoom. Is mister Terry available?

Not present on Zoom.

Dennis Dunn on Zoom.

Okay. Next, we have Jason Wolford, also available on Zoom.

Also not present.

Good afternoon, chair Fukunaga and members of the Public Safety Committee. I'm Dennis Dunn, and I'm testifying in support of this measure, in strong support of this measure. Gun violence prevention orders are known in other states as extreme risk protection orders, allow a judge to temporarily remove firearms from individuals they found to pose an imminent danger to themselves or others. These are their civil, limited, and include due process protections, making them a focus and constitutionally sound violence prevention strategy.

Hawaii's under use of GVPOs, as they've been referred to, is somewhat of a tragedy in the sense that we feel that strongly that if we have these more available and more well known, that we'd be saving lives and saving lives on a regular basis.

This is, I think, fair to say a smart preventive investment. We're not only preventing individuals from killing others, but it's well known and established through research that gun violence prevention orders prevent suicides. Suicides are the leading cause of the gun deaths in Hawaii. And so this is something that we need to be using more effectively. Police and the courts, I think, are available and willing to use this, but it just needs to be more well known.

Investment in this bill would allow us to be able to make sure that people know about it and that it can be effectively implemented to save lives. I thank you very much.

Oh, okay. Let's see. IT, can you add Miss Marvin? Please proceed.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this measure? I know that we did receive 60 written testimonies in support, 47 in opposition, and one set of comments. Members, do you have any questions?

Madam chair, there's someone on Zoom. Claire Marvin, to testify.

Hi. Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee. Thank you for this opportunity to testify in support of HB 2062. My name is Claire Marvin. I'm a sophomore at Punahou School and a member of Students Demand Action.

I think we must pass this bill to help keep members of our community safe from gun violence. Guns are now the leading cause of death for children and teens in America, and suicide by gun is a growing issue amongst teens. In other states, gun violence protection order laws have led significant decreases in both homicides and suicides by gun. Here in Hawaii, we passed these laws six years ago, but we need to make sure they're used when they can to save lives.

If the public aren't aware, they can't protect their families.

If law enforcement aren't trained to execute the law, they can't protect the public. Forty people in Hawaii die by gun suicide each year. How many of these deaths may have been prevented if this law was properly implemented? I urge you to pass this bill if only to make sure that the law you already passed can be useful. Mahalo.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Again, members, any questions for any of the prior testifiers? Okay. If not, we'll proceed to House Bill 1957. This is relating to safe entryways.

It establishes for a city with a population greater than 300,000 enforcement procedures to prevent people or personal property from blocking or otherwise impeding, ingress and egress to private doorways and entrance ways. Up first, we have Retail Merchants of Hawaii who has submitted written testimony. Let's see. Are they available on Zoom?

Not on Zoom, Chair.

Okay. We also received written testimony from Aloha Independent Living Home in opposition and one testimony from an individual, Michael Cobb, in support. Is there anyone in the audience who would like to testify on this measure? If not, members, we'll proceed to the next one. House Bill 2581 house draft 2, relating to emergency management.

This bill clarifies the types of events that constitute disasters and emergencies for the purposes of emergency management. First up, we have Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, which is Jim Barros. I believe he is not available. Next, we have Randall Collins for Hawaii Department of Emergency Management, Office of the Mayor, City and County of Honolulu with comments. Aloha Independent Living in Hawaii in support.

And next testifying for Sierra Club of Hawaii, I believe on Zoom, Wayne Tanaka.

Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Wayne Tanaka with the Sierra Club of Hawaii. We submitted testimony in strong support of this measure. We do think it's very broad, and I'm not sure if I understand HIEMA has some concerns, but it seems fairly speculative in terms of what kinds of situations they wouldn't be able to respond to under the language of this measure. So I'm happy to answer any questions, but, otherwise, respectfully urge your support of this bill.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Next, we have, Buki Kim testifying on behalf of ACL New Hawaii in person or on Zoom. Is Mister Kim available? If not, next is Earthjustice, Dru Hara. Welcome.

Hello, chair, committee members. Dru Hara with Earthjustice. So we submit submitted testimony in support of this measure. I do wanna acknowledge that we are currently undergoing an emergency, and and I appreciate that, the emergency management director did submit testimony.

Totally understand why he's not able to be here. I also wanna clarify that the amendments proposed in this bill would do nothing to divest HIEMA or our county emergency management agencies of their ability to respond to severe weather emergencies like the one that our state is currently experiencing and has been over the last week.

Really, as described in our testimony, the bill is targeted at limiting the governor's ability to apply extraordinary powers, including the power to suspend any law by amending the definitions of emergency and disaster to fit what we think was the original intention of the legislature and the emergency management statute. Just quickly acknowledge comments from the Honolulu mayor's office regarding the ability to fund affordable housing and homelessness projects.

I would just note that as of today, I believe we're on the eighteenth emergency proclamation relating to affordable housing and and the twenty second affordable emergency proclamation re relating to homelessness.

And while I do think that there are situations in which you could use an emergency proclamation under these amended definitions to address an issue like housing, such as, the mass displacement of people or the or the mass loss of housing stock due to a weather emergency like the one we're currently experiencing. Just having sort of a broad, application without scope or limit to address a a long standing issue of public policy.

I do not believe it was the legislature's intention in amending one twenty seven a in 2014, and so, we support these amendments, to bring back proper balance. So, Mahala.

Thank you. Okay. Next, we have Ted Kefalas in person for Grassroot Institute of Hawaii. If not, next, Hawaii Christian Coalition, Margaret Misha on Zoom.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Okay. Next, we have Tara Malia Gregory on Zoom in opposition.

Aloha.

Aloha. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay. Great. Aloha, Chair Fukunaga and members of the committee. My name is Tara Malia Gregory. I'm a resident and community advocate. Mahalo for being here. I am praying that you and your families are safe during these storms, so thank you for showing up.

While I do believe in the spirit and the intent of this bill, and I actually, want to stand on, partially the testimony of the former regarding the longstanding implications. I do stand in opposition as it's written because it is incomplete. This bill adds amended language to narrow the definition of an emergency to sudden events, catastrophic harm, and immediate danger, and that is a step in the right direction.

But changing the definition must also be followed by supporting language, because under HRS 127-14, the governor and mayor are still the sole judge of the existence of the danger, and I quote. So when this is challenged in court, that provision will still control, which means these changes risk becoming a moot point.

We are seeing the consequences right now. Right? The kupuna afraid to leave their homes. My fam friends and family just lost their homes in Laie, and there's reports of no sirens, limited coordination, and communities relying on neighbors helping neighbors.

So I do respectfully propose that this bill includes the following replacement language, that the governor or mayor shall determine the existence of an emergency based on clear and documented evidence of catastrophic harm or imminent threat subject to legislative review by majority vote to find timelines for reassessment and judicial review.

If this language is added to replace sole judge, I would strongly support this bill. But without fixing that and changing that clause, we're not really fixing the system. So mahalo for the time to speak.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay.

That brings us to the end of the list of testifiers who have signed up to testify. Is there anyone else who would like to comment on this measure? Okay. If not, members, any questions for our prior testifiers? If not, let's turn to House Bill 2498 relating to care homes.

This measure requires and appropriates funds to HAIMA to establish a Central Oahu care home community resilience pilot program to assist eligible care home facilities to implement structural and operational resilience improvements. First up for this bill is Department of Health testifying, let's see, on Zoom.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Okay. Next, we have Richard Luzar testifying for Navian Hawaii in person or on Zoom.

Not on Zoom, chair.

Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this measure? Okay. If not, well, let's see. Let's turn to the next measure, House Bill 2503 relating to fireworks.

This measure authorizes civil asset forfeiture relating to fireworks offenses that constitutes felonies. They amend, it amends the definition of aerial device and clarifies that the defense of sending or receiving fireworks or articles pyrotechnic by air delivery applies applicable, applies regardless of whether the offender accompanies the air delivery. First up, we have, Department of Law Enforcement, either in person or on Zoom. Okay. If not, we.

Not on Zoom chair.

Okay. If not, we have, Stephanie Kendrick for Hawaiian Humane Society on Zoom.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Okay. We do have a list of 14 supporters who have signed up in terms of written testimony. Is there anyone else who would like to testify on this measure? Okay. If not, members, we will recess and take a brief break.

Thank you. We're resuming the Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs for a very abbreviated discussion today in light of our weather conditions. First measure is House Bill 2062 House Draft 1 relating to gun violence prevention. Chair, like to recommend that we pass this measure with amendments. This one has a defective effective date.

And so we are gonna change the effective date to 07/01/2055. Any discussion? If not, Vice Chair Lee for the vote.

Voting on House Bill 2062. Recommendation is to pass with amendments. Chair Fukunaga.

I vote aye.

Vice chair votes aye. Senator Hashimoto.

Aye.

Senator Inouye excused. And Senator DeCourte.

No.

Chair, your recommendation's adopted.

Okay. Thank you. House Bill 1957. House draft one relates to safe entryways. This bill is another that we're proposing to pass with amendments.

There's a couple of technical non substantive amendments that are needed and it already includes a defective date. So Vice Chair Lee passing with amendments.

Voting on House Bill 1957. Recommendation is to pass with amendments, noting excused absence of Senator Inouye. Are there any other reservations or no's? Hearing none, the recommendation's adopted.

Okay. And for the next two measures, House Bill 2581 house draft 2 relating to emergency management and House Bill 2498 house draft 2 relating to care homes. Chair recommends that we defer decision making to Monday, March 23 in the same conference room at 3PM. Last measure on the agenda is House Bill 2503 house draft 1 relating to fireworks. This one also includes a defective effective date, but chair is gonna be recommending that we amend the defective date to 07/01/2055.

Any discussion? If not, Vice Chair Lee for the vote.

Voting on HB 2503 the recommendation is to pass with amendments, noting excused absence of Senator Inouye. Are there any other reservations or no's? Hearing none, the recommendation is adopted.

Thank you very much, members. I wish you a very safe travel out of building.