Senate Standing Committee on Education

Okay. Calling to honor the Grant Committee on Ways and Means and Health and Human Services. So this morning we're going to hear from the Department of Human Services who will present their supplemental budget requests. Good morning.

Good morning. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Thank you again for the openness and giving us an opportunity to come before you. So just quickly over the to highlight what the Department of Human Services Our vision is.

The people of Hawaii are thriving and our mission is to encourage self sufficiency, support the well being of individuals, families and communities in Hawaii. Very similar to all your missions and goals. We provide vital benefit services and act as a building block for individual families in need to achieve sufficiency on their own terms.

I just wanted to highlight that the Department is made up of six staff offices, four divisions and four administratively attached agencies and four commissions within our staff office. And we have them here today to answer questions. We have our Fiscal Management, Enterprise Technology, Human Resources, Budget Planning, Administrative Appeals, Audit, Quality Control and research offices.

And I'll introduce them later. We have our four division heads from Benefit, Employment Support Services Division, Division for vocational rehabilitation, MedQuest and Social Services Division. We also have Ben here from Hawaii Public Housing Authority, Office of Youth Services. Steve.

Recess.

Okay, real quick. So we've been informed that there's been a faulty alarm system that has been malfunctioning today. In the event we need to evacuate, we will recess the hearing. For those in the room and watching online, you may see residual flashing lights after a false alarm has been declared. So you can proceed. Sorry about that.

No, no, no, no worry. Thank you, Chair. So our four again, our four divisions include Quest Social Services division are attached as hpha, Office of Youth Services, State Office of Homelessness and Housing Solutions and Office of Wellness and Resilience.

And our commissions include Hawaii State Commission on the Status of Women, Commission on Fatherhood, Hawaii State Youth Commission, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Black plus Commission. We also have councils and boards which include the State Rehabilitation Council, Hawaii Interagency Council on Homelessness, Financial Assistant Advisory Council and the Wellness and Resilience Advisory Board.

And then we follow the principle of Ohana Nui. So just really quickly before I go introduce the people here. Our FY26 meet budget is $4.7 billion, 1.4 being A funds and 2.9 actually almost 3 being N funds. Currently we have 2322,323 and a half employees, 98 of them being temporary.

We expect to reduce that by 9 in FY27. Our Department vacancy currently is 663 last year before you chair we expressed that we had a 33% vacancy percentage. Currently we have 27%. Just want to introduce that. We have my deputy Director Joe Campos here.

He'll be answering questions dealing with entities like Kalaila Pua Nuo Nene Shelter Hawaii Emergency Food Assistance Program. We also have Deputy Director Trista Spear who can talk about the Disaster Case Management program and the Rental assistance program. We also have here our heads of our staff offices.

Carolina Agaran who does our budget planning and management lead Sheila Joy Olopani our Fiscal Management Officer Jennifer Muroka our HR lead Dana Balansag the Administrative Appeals Office Keith Nagai our Audit Quality Control and Research office Mark Choi. But we have Ryan here to talk about Office of Enterprise Technology.

If you guys have questions for our benefit Employment Support Services Division we have the two Scots here, Scott Moroshige and Scott Nakasone. For Social Services Division we have Acting Administrator Eladine Olavawa and her team for Quest.

We have Acting Administrator Meredith Nichols here and her team for Division of Vocational Rehabilitation we have Leah Diaz and her team Hawaii Public Housing Authority HA couldn't be here due to for health reasons. So Ben park will be here to answer any of your questions.

We have Office of Youth Services Leanne Gy State Office of Homelessness and Housing Solution Jun Yang is Here Office of Wellness and Resilience. We have Tia Hartock and we have Commission of Status of Women Yasmin Cheney. Okay just for real quick for some notable accomplishments that we did want to highlight.

One is our KAKO program which was a pilot program done in with child welfare to support wellness checks. It also expanded to look to support families through giving them food boxes in partnership with the food banks and food pantries on every island.

We also would like to acknowledge that we did the Hawaii Emergency Food Assistance program which provided $250 per person snap recipients. If you may have questions we have our Deputy Campos here to answer.

We also have the Hawaii Child Wellness Incentive Pilot program which gives $50 gift cards to parents who are requests for their children getting to meet with their doctor.

That also we would like to acknowledge that we have the Sunbucks program at a summer EBT that was where we give $177 to qualified children for summer for feeding and that was inspired by our first Lady's initiative to end hunger for children.

We also have the Preschool Open Doors program which was a subsidy to that was expanded last year by Lieutenant Governor Sylvia Luke to be eligible for 2 year olds and remove some of the accreditation burden. Some Problems. Okay, we will go quickly just to highlight. We have table six in front of you. Just really quickly.

Our priority ones were decided because even though there are plus various program IDs they all was in relation to the recent OBBA responses and the administrative changes that we are required to do to not incur penalties that would then if you look at our priorities two and three, number one, you want to go one by one.

Okay, so that's the 4 million?

Yes, the four. Yes, the 4 million. That's for this step.

Okay, so what is the adjustment of the 79 positions?

Thank you, Chair. Scott Morishige, Administrator for the Benefit Implement and Support Services Division. So the positions are the positions in our Administration for. zero, I'm sorry. That provide direct services in BESD that are partially funded through the SNAP administrative expense. So the adjustment is because the OABBA increases the state share from 50% to 75%.

So that's a sweep.

This is to supplant federal funds. And these positions are already there.

These are existing positions that currently the federal state split is 5050 and it'd be adjusting to 25% federal, 75% state. So this is just to reflect, you know, the increased amount of General funds we need and then the number of positions are impacted by that that are partially covered by those funds.

Okay, but you don't show a reduction of the federal component of the positions.

I believe there is the reduction. That's in table five. I believe table nine or table five. I think people. Yeah, in table five. So table five reflects the reductions and then table four is additions. Okay.

Stay here because you got the next.

And then.

Yeah. Oh yeah. So I, I can quick for the. Director though the 79 position count. I guess you just said you have like 600 some odd vacant positions. So why can't we take from there?

Although those, those are Department wide across all of our different divisions and attach. These positions that are being requested are very specific to be able to address the changes that are being required by the feds which is going to. Actually we're waiting for rules to be promulgated by the feds expected by June of this year.

So right now we are looking at it as ADS not being able to track or since those current. But why not trade off. Those positions that we do have throughout the Department are valued in those specific areas and they're specific. These are very specific to.

We can do transfers and trade offs. Because if you only went down what 6%.

Yeah.

And you still have over 600, you're not going to fill 600 positions.

Yeah, we are trying our best, but that would be a tall task. Yes, we would open to looking at that. HR right now we're trying to work with, you know, the various entities to try to rewrite position descriptions to be able to fill and be more flexible.

However, these, some of these positions are very specific and it's not easily comparable with, especially with civil service positions.

I get that. That's why I think the trade that transfers in, trade off. So you're just going to reduce some of the positions you cannot fill. We will look at some of those. If you got Some, you know, 2019, you didn't fill them by now. Going to fill them. I don't. The goal is to.

Yes, we are targeting our very difficult to fill positions.

So yeah, you got some 2013-2014. I mean it's been vacant over 10 years.

We are, yes, we are aware of those that made the, the, the more than four year threshold on that list.

And so what do you guys. I don't know if that's. This is prudent though, you know, I mean if you're going to leave all these vacant positions with the money in there because we're talking about reducing tax breaks. Yes. And then we're just leaving money on the table.

We will be. We are. HR is committed to, you know, we've been participating as many job fairs as we can looking at ways of being more attractive. It is a difficult market. But yeah, we will. I mean that just.

You still got all those from what, 20, you know, all those that got vacant last year. Which is quite a bit from 2025-2024-2023-2022. But I mean I'm just trying to single out the ones that you haven't filled for over a dozen years. Dozen.

Yeah.

We will work with the divisions on their vacancy counts in those areas and see if there's any ability to over.

Yeah, well, and then you have them in priority. Right. So when you look at all the priority to retain, you have all the way down to what he said. Let me look. You have to keep scrolling. There's so many.

And we are a large Department.

Okay. So the 663, you just take 79 from there. Because if that's the priority that if you don't want to give up the other ones that you've been sitting on for over a dozen years. We will, we'll. Yeah. Okay Nick.

So the next Item is an HMS 903 which is our Administration for PESD and similar. It's a request for the increased the increase from 50% to 75% of the state share for admin costs. And similarly the positions are the portions of those positions are currently funded, you know, by the administrative expense.

But same thing on the 16.95 positions. And then one thing to note both for this item and the prior one is the fiscal year 27 request just reflects 3/4 of the year because the increase the shift in admin costs goes into effect October 1, 2026. And so then the following the out years reflect the full amount.

That's why there's a difference. It reflects the full year costs.

Okay, next one. The 5.26. You have three.

Yeah. So the next one is just related to similar for the administrative costs for the director's office. That's cost allocated to support the work of the division. So HMS 904 is the Administration for the Department, but there are positions at the Department level that support the work of the division.

So for example, HR, our Office of Enterprise Technology and so on. Yeah, fiscal.

Yeah, okay. But same thing. Hard to give new positions when you guys got 663 vacant. Yeah, understood. Okay, next.

Okay, then we'll be moving to the next item which is I think we'll call up Meredith.

Operations and leave the building utilizing the nearest exit or fire.

Aloha. Thanks for having us here today we're looking at our, should I pause? Our system requirement and staff augmentation to implement getting prepared for HR1. The HR1 bill you've probably already heard is going to be really demanding for the MedQuest and other programs. So this is helping.

The funding being requested here is to help us gear up for all of the many system requirements we're going to have to put into place to be able to comply with the new requirements under HR1.

Okay, but there's a match.

There will be a match. So this is done at the budgeted at the high end. Because of the situation right now with the federal administration we, we hope to have a higher match, but we don't have any guarantees from them right now.

So the 30 million is just an estimate now?

It's an estimate. It's an estimate.

So when we get closer to conference, you guys will have a more perspective.

Okay, next.

Okay. Oh, for the capitation expenditures. Yeah. So this amount has to do with again preparation for the cost of health care moving up. The capitated rates are going to move up. We've seen this on the commercial side and also MQD side. So it's to account for the increase in capitated rates.

Okay, so can you just explain what this program is for?

Yeah, this is so that we can make sure that we're paying our health plans to provide services to MedQuest members.

Yeah, next one. Okay, those are not precise either yet.

Yeah, those, those rates will come up. But that's a general estimate based on current. We'll be able to be more firm.

So you. It's probably going to go down.

There, so the number of people we cover is likely to go down. But the acuity of the people who.

Are thinking about the dollar amount.

The dollar amount may not go down. We'll have to see. Yeah.

Okay, next one.

Okay, thank you.

So for the staff development office move, that is to a Bezi requested move to move their offices in Kapoli. Consolidating to Kapoli.

Thank you.

Well, they're moving from town. I think it's.

Yeah, we're in private lease space right now, building, and because of the conditions of that lease, we're not able to use any federal funds for that private lease space. So we're working to transition that office into a state building and copulate the Kikuyepa building.

How many, how many staff?

Oh. You know, let me look that up, and then we can get back to you with the exact number.

Okay. Which state building are you guys going to?

Kikuyu of the Kapolei State office building.

Okay.

Is this the entire program?

This is our staff development office. So it's our training staff that provide training for the division.

Okay, next one.

The next one is the Kapolei processing center.

Yeah. So the training office would be moving in to the space that currently in the Kapolei building. Our processing center is split across two floors, the first floor and the fourth floor.

So we consolidate the processing center into one space on the first floor to be able to help transition our staff development office into the vacant space on the fourth floor. So this is just to support the cost for that transition.

And the funds are being immense.

Yes, it's the cost split. The split between A funds and end funds.

Okay.

Thank you. And I'll have Matalina Olava join us. But this is to add 1.5 to the contracts for child protective services to three providers in result to some recent issues where they had difficulty attaining liability insurance. We are still currently working with the insurance commissioner to look at long-term solutions.

However, for right now, in order because they deal with so many of our kids. More than 2,000 for medium and level children. Also with prevention. We're asking for the 1.5 to assist with our contracting.

But they don't need money for it.

Doesn't look like it. But you can ask them the additionals that could be right there.

The home.

No, that's not part of it. We can ask. The 1.5 million, is that the Kako program?

No, that's not. That is, yeah, that is for specifically for three of our providers in which for example, if we get reports come in from the hotline. Some of our cases don't rise to the highest level. Some we try to triage work with the families diversion. These are to help those for us dealing because of the.

They were threatened to lose their insurance. Not having their policies renewed. They were able to secure policies. However, the cost to them were significantly high. Some reporting over nine to ten times what they were initially paying.

During the informational briefing but they were, the audit showed that they were not able to certify enough of these families or centers, and basically one of the reasons was they couldn't get insurance because we extended the statute of limitations, and so the insurance rates went up. So this helps cover that problem.

Yeah, we're trying to make sure that we can work with these three providers so that they stay and not discontinue because if that's the case, we would be inundated with 2,000 plus cases. That was the potential impact if they weren't able to secure the insurance.

We would like them to stay in the market to be able to service our ohana throughout the state.

Okay, we can go next. That must sign. Okay. All right.

Yeah. Here you go. I'm getting older. My glasses keep falling down. Okay. All right, so I'll call up Jun. This is the $8 million for the homeless triage medical respite.

Good morning, Chair. Good morning, Committee.

We were down to one. That was the problem. We were down to one group. And so at least hopefully we got the three. Sorry. Trying to explain to Chair why we needed the 1.5 million.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak. We're requesting $8 million for our homeless triage and medical respite programs on the island of Oahu. This will be able to help supplement some of the programs that we already have. It'll be the HONU, the projects that are working through the city and county of Honolulu.

The ALLA medical respite over at the First Hawaiian Bank building in Iwa Lake. And so the HONU project itself is one that supports.

I think we're all familiar with that.

Okay.

Why, why is it in a line item versus a bill?

So the, the.

It's always been a bill.

We understand. We appreciate the opportunity. The, previously the, the governor and, and we've been working closely with the, the counties across the state, and this one is one that through the administration we have. Have worked to include it as a part of our package this year.

Okay. You know, for our side, though, once it's in the base budget, you can't really check on it unless the subject matter chair on both sides have like an annual hearing. You can't really check on it. And it would just be the limited committee.

The bill allows the discussion to go throughout almost the entire legislature to see where are we at with homeless programs, are they working?

That's when you were in the budget. Yeah. No, I don't like that.

I, I don't think that that was the reason why we, we provided as a part of the, the budget bill.

It's not that we don't support, but, you know, we got, we haven't, we got to make sure that these programs are actually working because we hear it from lots of our constituents that.

The HONU program itself has been.

We're not arguing the program, we're arguing the process in the sense where should it be a bill or in the base?

Well, I think part of the reason why it's added into the governor's budget is that this has been a priority for the governor and, you know, we, as our process of looking at balancing our needs, but.

Except we haven't figured out a sweet spot that everyone seems to be on the same page. Right. I think there's an opening for that because you've done some research on the Denver model. So I'm hoping that that's.

Once there's a sweet spot that we all can say, okay, this is the direction we all should be going in. I can kind of see that going into the base, but until we kind of achieve that, I think it's better that we continue the current process.

Yeah. And as shown, as at the Hawaii County Council meeting on their budget regarding homelessness, there were questions as to how their budget was being misused, too. Right. So we want to be able to have that kind of oversight, and we want to have a say and not just the government having a say. Yeah.

Because there's clearly some philosophical, you know, disagreements, I guess, or we're not in a complete alignment. We all are agreeing that we have to do something. I think that's clear. I don't think there's anybody that disagrees. But the bill, either last year or the year before, it's always eliminated HONU.

And it was only going to do Kauhali, but the legislature was like, no, we got to do both because we're not clear as to where we're headed. And HONU was supposed to be a temporary thing until we can get something like a kauhale.

And we're still not at the point and where we talked about the reorg for homeless services and different types of providers researching research, homeless research, all the different things that associated with homeless. We talked about that, the reorg. So that's one line item by itself, without trying to fix the overall system is difficult.

Okay.

Because we still don't really have control of the situation. Right. I mean, we don't control the data. We talked about this. We're just flying by the seat of our pants because we have to depend on outside parties on the data who don't normally give it to us. And it's every, it's homeless services are not necessarily consolidated.

I mean, there are certain things in your department. There are certain things in Office of Community Services, which is in Department of Labor.

When we give GIAs, and they may not be playing nicely with you, but then they're going to go get a GIA from another department and then now we're stuck because we can't get the data that you might need or some of the reports you might need, but they're still getting money from another agency.

So that, that has to be reconciled.

I think, you know, your governor's office, Governor Josh, we're all committed to working with you guys, you know, to get to that plan and get and build that confidence. So you know, again, this is currently our fiscal request, so it was put in a budget.

So my, my concern is that this is just for HONU and the city and county of Honolulu and, and your supposed to look at statewide reduction of homeless. And I'd like to see a more strategic plan across the board in what you're doing.

And I think at one of the WAM briefings that we had, you were to be working with how do we have a housing ladder so that you're moving people are able out of homelessness with more permanent housing.

And I don't know where you folks are on meeting that actual goal of how do you transfer people off the street, unsheltered, but you need the data from all the providers to more permanent housing because that's the end game.

Thank you, Senator.

I mean, and you know, we recognize that it may not be for everybody because if some people have either mental health issues or even, you know, physical challenges and then they just need the assisted living no matter what, you know, we understand that but we, we were supposed to get some kind of idea from you guys as to how we're looking at the overall system.

Absolutely. Now just to be able to if able to respond.

You guys are going to introduce though, based on our WAM brief conversations? So we're going to work on something. Do you guys have at least something? Because if not, you're not getting this 8 million.

Absolutely.

We will get back to you on the status, again with everything including looking at the whole process. Junior, you want to elaborate?

It's just too fragmented. What is the system?

We talked about a division consult. You know, one division that included Scott's program, I guess what the other Scott's program, June's program, and then they would all be either attached agencies or branches to that division. So we could have a more comprehensive approach, and then we would bring in research for statistics versus outsourcing that.

Yes, we, yes we, I, we, we talked about that. And having you know, long-term plan. So that.

And it was better for you guys. Joe, how many meetings you got to go? How many task force for homeless you got to go? June does okay?

How many? I mean, we talked about, you said almost like several dozen. Several dozen. So we're having several dozen meetings for several dozen groups. And we're not moving that needle versus let's re. We got to take a new approach. We're just reacting to the current system, getting, you know, slightly productive results at best.

Yeah, I do.

The numbers aren't going down.

They're probably not doing the count anymore. Right. The point in time count.

No, but the anecdotal evidence from the constituents is like, it's difficult. You know.

We've heard from constituents, especially in Waikiki and other areas, that they have seen a dramatic response.

I told you at Waihua, same thing. And I'm sure same thing with Waianae Coast.

Absolutely.

Right. I mean, part of it was we had this whole discussion because the tent city in Kahalui was just not the approach that the community or the businesses felt was the best way to solve the issue.

And as an update, and I think that the the tent city in Kahului.

I don't want to talk about the incident. I want to talk about what's the overall system, how we're going to fix it.

And as a part of that, the programs that we have in my office together, working closely with the HPO office, Homeless Programs Office, we are working to implement Kauhale Ohana zone programs across the state, reducing. And at this point, we've already housed about 22,000 individuals have gone through Kalhale. And so.

No, no, no, no, no. But what we talked about was there is no real pipeline that we've been. That we understand of how someone moves through the Kauhali. Right. And so that's where this whole overall pipeline.

What services are needed, what educational services are needed, what skills so that they can get a job or, you know, start to save money for a house, all those different things, wraparound services. So that's where I thought the new cow, the new Kauhali that you talked about was almost like a small condo with wraparound services.

That's right.

And so I thought we were kind of moving into that direction, but this is not how the budget is being reflected.

This one is really to. To help kind of shore up anything that was. That may have not been included in the last budget process. The HONU was supposed to be a continuation for this fiscal year as well. This coming fiscal year.

And we wanted to make sure that the, the operations for the services that are provided through the Allah Medical Respite and for HONU will be continuing on this coming fiscal year. And that's the opportunity with that we're requesting from you.

So your mission is to reduce the number of homeless statewide. So your office was created with that mission.

And you were also to get data across the board. So when we ask you where are you placing the Kalhali, it would be in places where there's a need based on the data. So where are you in terms of having that kind of clearinghouse?

Absolutely.

So the contract has completed its first phase.

But what kind of data are you collecting? Because they have partners in care and you've got bridge the gap, and they're nonprofits and they are not coming. You're supposed to be collecting that. So we can make a statewide.

You know what though? Follow. That's where we talked about. When you talk. When you look at Department of Labor, they have a statistics department. Specifically for labor. I'm not sure why we talked about this.

Why aren't you guys bringing that inhouse versus having to figure play games with some, some of the, you know, outside entities that don't want to give you the information.

The, I mean the, the HMIS, the difficult history of the HMIS over the past 22 decades. We're, we're trying to be able to bring that information collected within.

We agree. Absolutely. Let's do that through a reorg of a bill and then we can put this money in the bill. But it should be a much more comprehensive approach in the bill.

Yeah, okay, we'll, we'll look into that.

Because just this by itself isn't going to fix it. If we have all these other outstanding issues of the data of silos in government, of how all the different homeless services, grants, and everything else is working. So you have one component moving forward, and then the rest are still reacting to the current situation. But that's not.

They, they don't have the tools and the, and the resources or the authorities to act to react to today's time and space.

This is a lot of money. 8 million dollars just for one bandaid. So I think what we're asking for is a more systemic look, and that's what your office is charged to do.

Can I ask a question? Okay. It's more a comment, Chair. My understanding, if we're asking for a bill, I think you're too late because my understanding is the administration is not going to require any agency right now that has not done a bill.

No, we know that. And the subject matter Chair said she was willing to. Yeah. And so we have. Because she was at the WAM info briefing when we talked about it, she said she was willing to work with you guys on a bill.

And I have been asking you since you came into office that I wanted this comprehensive plan because I don't like the idea of just us giving you money and the administration having their own projects funded without the legislator, you know, making sure that the monies that we fund are going to the right places.

You know, anyway, we all want the same thing. So I don't think this is like a, you know, you, you guys want something different than what we want. We want the same thing, but it has to be a lot more comprehensive and strategic.

The, the tradition or the, the history has been every time there's a homeless issue, the legislature says okay, how do we get ourselves out of this? And then you create Scott's branch. Okay, how do we get ourselves out of this? Okay, then now you create another branch 10 years later.

Oh, how do we get ourselves out of this? Okay, now we just created June's, right. So every time, you know, and the public, that's what we tell the public. Oh, we're going to solve this by just growing government. So now we have three or four branches, keep funding non-profits, keep doing all these things.

But then we still have. So that's where. Okay. Instead of constantly just adding more and more, let's be strategic with what we have, which is kind of robust already. It's just in silos.

So I do wanna, I'll exit with this one last piece is if you can exit. Oh I mean if you, if you, if you have any other questions, I apologize. The. In, in my, my short time here I've, we've been able to have.

Hold our, our homeless agency interagency council hearings or meetings twice so far and we'll be holding our next one in March, and we hope to have representative from our, our senate offices there in there.

We've talked about the 10-year comprehensive plan and we are trying to revamp that plan to make sure that we have a comprehensive approach across all of our departments, and to be able to end homelessness.

We're not going to be able to do that if you have a plan and you're talking about it, but then by law it doesn't, there's no, no teeth to it. So you got to have teeth to it. So if you guys have been talking about a plan, why is it.

Why aren't we re-orging so we can break up the silos and have something more synergistic?

Thank you. We'll be working with the Chair.

And we all want this because we want to solve this, but we can't solve it with the way doing it now.

Yeah, I've seen your plan. And the reality, it's dynamic, right? It needs to be dynamic. So we need to know where the needs are. And so you kind of identified only Oahu on this 1.5 million, but you haven't shown us where in the plan as to why Oahu gets to have the entire 1.5 million.

And why not like Maui or something? 8 million.

Talking about CFS1.

No, this. This is.

I mean Oahu, sorry. It looks like.

This is, the 8 million is for these two specific programs that are, have been already a part of ongoing operations.

You gotta convince us is that that's part of this plan. Right. And you haven't.

Yeah. And you know, I mean, the reality is you're looking at Kahale to see how should it evolve into its next phase. Right. Which I think you've done some research. You went to go look at facilities. I mean, I'm hopeful.

I actually think that what you found can actually produce some of the results that we've been looking for for a long time. But I don't. We haven't had a pilot to do that, which I've been urging. In fact, we funded, but we haven't gotten it going yet.

Well, it's. And we're working through the process with the different boards at this point, and we're excited that we're making some progress at this time.

Yeah. I think in this case, though, too many layers, too many committees, too many departments, too many. And so we just have to have a little more executive leadership that says this is where we're going, this is what the plan is. Let's start to implement.

Thank you very much.

So 8 million dollars, that got to go into a bill.

Like. Senator, we support this. When we had our hearing is exactly what we're saying that we had in the hearing to get the data right, get the plan. You're only talking about the whole program and all of that. Right. It's understandable. But how are we going to know if this is being successful if we have no gauge?

We keep giving money to like, again, I always bring up IHS. We give them money, but then why are we not likem like how Senator De La Cruz said, why are we not taking all the guys who are getting grants going to your guys' Department? Right. Going to you guys' department.

And you guys make the decision and tell them all that you qualify for this grants. You got to comply. If not, pull back the grants because these guys are using the taxpayers as a big pothole of money. And our side, and I could just say our side. Right, for now.

Because you talk about Waikiki is getting a little bit improvement. But what about our side? Right, Senator, the courtesy side. My side, we have, we're the host of all the homeless. And how I know is because I'm gonna tell you right now in Waianae Nanakuli of a beach.

Get me wrong, nobody was born and raised Micronesian. We have them all. Look at our shelters. We overrun. How did they get there? Again? They're bringing them in from other districts to our community. No data. Transferring them from other programs to our communities. Ask them, go take a walk at the Waianae Nanakuli.

Ask those guys how they got to the Bodhaba. They got dropped off. So again we get in programs. What they do is they will get the data. They come to our bush, housing homeless. We don't see them for four years because they already got the grant. What is the stipulation of the grant?

And that's what we talked about in the hearing. You guys need to make an assertive as if there's a bill or something. We got to know because again, we're still giving them the same money, but we don't see them for four years later because they already got the grant.

Every shelter in our district has a four for three to four year time period. So they have no incentive to go out once they get the grant because they got the grant for four years once.

You know what, though? Draft. Work with the chair on drafting the bill because in that way we can have more robust discussion in subject matter, Chair. And then when it comes to WAM and then the House, we're not going to solve. We have nothing in front of us now.

Absolutely.

And the concerns. See what we can do so we can get some policy change.

And Senator brings up a point. And I do want to be able to direct our, our Ways and Means Committee and senators. We've, we've been mandated by the bill to provide a report every quarter. Our reports have been submitted to the legislature at this time.

So we have our quarterly and our end of year report just before the beginning of this legislative session in there. As much as we're able to receive from our service providers. We've, we've educated and mandated them to report to us. And we're reporting back to.

And we had this discussion. In some cases, the tail is wagging the dog.

I've watched that movie too.

So we have to fix that. Okay, next.

Okay, thank you. Don't go too far. Tia.

The next one is dealing with funds for the Office of Wellness and Resilience.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to present this request for supplemental budget. We have two budget line items. One is for other current expenses, and one is for collective bargaining. I have a breakdown of those two expenses and an explanation for the impact for the other current expenses.

I only see one item though. That's the, you're combining both.

Okay. One is for 297.

Correct.

The other current expenses, one is for 297,500. This is specifically focusing on in two different areas. One is consultant services. This is broken down into $212,500.

Oh, I see, I see. It's two down. Yeah, I see it.

Sorry. One is for $212,500 for other for consultant services. This fund will be paying for the current contract that we have with University of Hawaii to be developing and distributing and disseminating, analyzing and then populating the social determinants of dashboard of health dashboard that's in our legislation. The other part of that $212,500 is $85,000.

$50,000 of that $85,000 is specifically focusing on developing learning management training system training that is part of our training initiative for state employees around trauma-informed care and state certification for state employees to better be able to address traumatic issues occurring in the workplace. The other part of it is for our annual summit that has been in.

That's in our recommendations report from our task force requiring the office to hold an annual summit. So that funding for $35,000 is for our annual summit. The last part of the other piece of the request is for $22,000.

The $22,000 is a one time ask of 12,000 to cover a one time collective bargaining payout of $2,000 per employee that occurred last year for six positions.

And then the other part of that is $10,080 is incremental funding to account for a collective bargaining increase that was not provided to the DHS on behalf of OWR for fiscal year 26.

How did you guys pay for it this last year?

We had to adjust our current budget.

Okay, thank you. Okay.

And then the next item is back to SOHS.

Okay. We don't have to talk about it because we'll just do it on the. Yeah. So we can put the 8 million and the 300,800 in the bills. That way we can have a better discussion throughout because if not, we're just going in circles. Okay, thank you.

Thank you very much.

And then the other items are the federal funding ceiling increases.

And then I think the same thing is going to happen with your talking to the vice chair. If you look at table 15, the first item is probably going to probably be in the bill too. Okay.

The IP request.

Okay. The second. What can you just go over the second, second and third item?

No, your. What is a KYFWC master plan Oahu?

For the ceiling increases? Or?

You're still on table 15.

15. Oh, okay.

You're going to want 18 million plus. Yeah, so that's right. Okay.

For CIP.

Yeah.

Okay.

For the kahale, the lump sum.

No, no, that's the one I'm saying going into the next one, you want to just go over the. Or the master plan. Yeah. Okay. And the hybrids, energy solutions. Doesn't have to be too long. Just kind of explain it. Okay.

I don't want to mess it up.

So they didn't tell you. You cannot remember.

Good thing you guys are here. You would be stuck. Go ahead.

Hi. Good morning, Chair, members of the committee. My name is Matalina Olava, currently the new administrator for the QF campus.

So if you just go over the. You just need the money for the master plan for the campus.

This is for the continuum of what we have already done. They've completed the reports, and now we're going on to the next phase of the camp for the campus review. For the continuum.

But this is established, right? Already?

Yeah.

Is it? No, this is. This is to plan it, to build it out or is it to.

Yes, this is the second phase of.

It's already. This is. It already began. We're just needing the additional. For phase two. Yeah.

For phase.

The construction didn't begin though.

Oh, we're not even there. Far from that.

Okay. This has been plan and design, then. Building that first part of it and then. So why do you need the energy solutions money now?

Zero, you're talking about the energy solution.

Yeah.

Well, the second half for the 3 million? No, the 6.

Okay. Yes. So we are. So that is. That's separate part of the cip. So for that one is, we're looking to try to see how we can find ways and means to conserve the energy. The campus utilize so much of the energy. So we're looking at efficient ways to finance.

Where is this located? zero, okay. Yeah, it's on the site.

It's on site. Yes. So we're requesting how many acres total of 500.

Yeah. You mean the whole thing. This is the one that used to be the prison.

It's still identified as the Hawaii Youth Correctional Facility. The entire campus that the name has changed to the Kauai.

Yeah, but the services are not the same. Right.

The services has changed with the reform. It has helped us to look at minimizing the secured numbers of the kids in there. So what we're looking at, of all the different campuses, we do have the homelessness program. It's a whole new approach to it.

Because then when we visited there, there was some. A lot of the buildings are really old. Yes, right. And then some of it. You're leasing to some nonprofits for. Correct. And then some. The state's doing.

Yeah, the state is doing. We have the three different.

The master plan is going to help. Are we going to renovate all of it or.

No, there are certain. Part of the. There are buildings that are no longer in existence that we do need to. For sure. Yeah. To build those new ones. And then there's also that we do need because they're super old and we need to keep up with it to meet the requirements of building codes.

We need to renovate those buildings. Okay.

Yes. One question, since we're talking about that item, I noticed that the 10 million is into the 27th year. 2027. So you're the. The plan you're working on right now is only on the 3 million year earlier. Okay. Yes. So it's only part of it of phase two. Okay.

So you're not actually ready into the next session, then, the next phase? No, we're.

I think we do. What is the timeline for the master plan completion? We're looking.

We're being ambitious and saying 10 years.

Hopefully faster than that.

Well, hopefully faster. But we all know this is us being hopeful. But also we know that there's quite a lot of different processes that go.

Into historical buildings, because if the sooner we can get to our kids to get them in the right direction and the support they need, they can be more productive citizens.

We definitely hope so. Because it has shown such a change from the numbers from 193 used to be 10 years ago. We have moved now to the current population of 2032. We should try to figure out earlier. And we're working back on zero growth again then. So there's quite a lot of work that goes into it.

It is super, super important. But realistically, that's what I'm saying. Ten years for now. Because we're hoping to at least build it by phases. We.

Well, I think that it depends on what the master plan says, the overall cost is, and then what the phases are.

Okay, I will get that number and get back to you guys.

Yeah, you can talk to the Vice Chair, but the sooner we can get these kind of services up, then it helps, you know, Are Kiki a lot faster? Yeah.

Kids now, where are you sending them off to when they're not. No, they're there. They're there.

One, they're in substandard buildings, or two, there's not enough space there because some of the buildings are demolished. Yes. Or old.

The goal of the. Of the campus is that we do have the secured facility which now only holds about 32 kids currently. That's our current population.

All the outside programs that we would like to see happen is because there's the belief that if we lock up our kids, we do more detriment to them and end up in the adult system. And that's the reason. So all of this building is creating the different programs.

We currently have a vocational program that is supported by Kupina. I mean, by Kinay. We have the homelessness program that Rice. We just want to invest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we'll work on the plan and get responding to you guys about it.

We'll give it to both J. Any other questions? You know what, though? On behalf of the Committee, you guys work with our most vulnerable population. So we really appreciate. It's not easy work is you probably go home, cannot sleep, you know. That's correct. And so, you know, we really.

We really do appreciate what you guys are doing because it does help Hawaii. And the. The faster and the more resources we can provide the most needy and vulnerable people who need help, then they can become productive citizens. So we really appreciate the work you guys are doing. Don't. Don't mind the questions.

We're just trying to get you to do fast.

Okay. Yes. And thank you for helping the Director. Any other questions? Okay, thank you. Okay.

Okay. Calling to order the Joint Committee on Ways and Means and Education. So this afternoon we're going to hear from the University of Hawaii who will present their non existent supplemental budget requests. Okay. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Good afternoon to all of you. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. Chair Dela Cruz. Chair Kim. Vice Chair Kidani and Vice Chair Morawaki. And the Members of the Ways and Means and Higher Education Committees. My name is Wendy Huntzel. I'm honored to serve as the President of the University of Hawaii.

Thank you again for the opportunity to be here today and talk a bit about the achievements of our past year and the Board of Regents budget requests. I'm pleased to introduce two members of the leadership team who are here with me today. Board of Regents Vice Chair Mike Miyahira and Vice President for Budget and Finance Luis Salaveria.

I'm also pleased, as you can see, to have a large number of leaders from the system behind me who are here and the campuses to support our testimony today. In my first year as President of the university, our team worked to implement transformative programs and opportunities to enhance academic excellence. Excuse me.

Eradicate barriers to student success and infuse innovation and design thinking across the system for effectiveness and efficiency. The University is wholeheartedly committed to collaborating with the Governor, the Legislature, community, business leaders and other stakeholders to turn this vision into a reality. Excuse me. Your support for our mission, of course, is essential for lasting impact.

We also understand the funding we receive from the state brings with it accountability for results. And to that end, I appreciate the opportunity to take just a moment to share with you a few key highlights that created forward momentum this past year. Our focus on students is unrelenting and UH launched.

Directed to direct to UH in conjunction with the Department of Education, which allows public high school seniors to apply to nine out of our 10 campuses with just a few short clicks.

The goal is not only to encourage more applicants, but also to create earlier connections that allow us to show how our range of career and degree programs meet the needs of our students. As of just a few days ago, I can say that there are 18% unique higher applicants year to date. So very significant effect.

As well as a 45% increase in applications overall. UH 2025 fall enrollment also reached a record at 51,000, a 2% increase from fall 2024, the third year of consecutive growth.

To ensure a common standard of care and support for all of our students, regardless of the campus they sit on, we commenced a system wide rollout of integrated student success technology, including EAB Navigate and Edify. EAB Navigate uses predictive analytics to flag students at risk and trigger early outreach from faculty or advisors.

This technology plays a very important role in our comprehensive evaluation of system wide barriers to students retention and graduation rates.

Our extramurally funded research set yet another record at 734 million in 2025, the fourth consecutive year, underscoring our role as a leader in innovation and academic excellence as well as a key partner with all of you in bringing significant dollars into the state.

Simultaneously, our philanthropic support shattered previous records reaching $171.7 million to support students, faculty and groundbreaking research to lead the state through transitions occurring as a result of the advance of generative AI. We've launched a system wide AI strategy and created an Office of Academic Technology and Innovation headed by the UH's first Aizar.

Created a task force to develop recommendations for strategic investments and secure system wide infrastructure. Our goal is a comprehensive plan to equip every student and educator with AI skills and lead the state through this technological revolution. To enhance effectiveness, accountability and transparency, we are redesigning our leadership positions and structures.

Recognizing we have work to do in workforce development, we are exploring the creation of a unified Associate Vice President for Workforce Development.

We've also begun the separation of the two positions that I personally hold, President of the System and Chancellor of the MNOA campus, and launched a pilot combination of leadership across UH West Oahu and Leeward Community Colleges to explore how more integrated operations at these two campuses might fuel innovation and workforce responsiveness for west and Central Oahu.

The forward momentum I describe here is particularly notable because it occurred in an environment of significant challenge resulting from shifts at the federal level. As of mid December, 85 extramural grants totaling $109 million have been terminated due to shifting federal priorities.

An additional 80 million in dollars has received notice a few weeks ago that it is at risk due to a December U.S. Department of Education finding that minority serving programs are unconstitutional. An additional $70 million are also at risk but have not been noticed as of yet.

The University has and will continue to navigate these waters and in thoughtful partnership with all of you and we appreciate your support. As for the operating budget, we're fully aware of the funding challenges facing the state this year and for that reason elected to identify only two proposals in the Board of Regents budget for consideration.

They were specifically chosen because they are time sensitive and impact not only the university but also the state's economy and the quality of life for Hawaii's residents. We have a health care workforce initiative requesting $3.7 million and 18.5 full time positions to address critical healthcare work workforce shortages across the state.

Severe shortages exist in practically all health professional profession disciplines and most medical specialties, limiting access to care especially in rural and underserved areas for vulnerable populations.

The requested funding would support coordinated system wide science and healthcare workforce initiatives that span multiple campuses and units and directly focus on three areas of urgency cancer neurology and dementia and behavioral health integration and addiction.

The University is also requesting additional economic support for the University of Hawaii at Manoa Athletic Department in recognition of the impact its operations have for our entire state.

This reflects the need for additional resources to maintain competitiveness in light of the University's transition to the Mountain West for Most sports in 2026 and occasioned by changes in the NCAA rules regarding student athletes.

We expect these initiatives to deliver direct economic benefits and value to the State of Hawaii while advancing the athletic program's mission of excellence, community engagement and student athlete development. First, we seek to institutionalize 17 General funded FTEs from temporary roles and convert 35 existing spouses special funded positions into General funded positions.

This change ensures stability and critical staff roles in compliance, training, finance and communications. Notably, this conversion will provide that staffing, security and cost savings on the fringe benefits. We also request 10.08 million annual operating funding to enhance such areas as nutrition, recruiting, travel equipment, apparel, insurance, medical care, academic support and facility maintenance.

It will support the resources needed to compete in Division 1. Finally, 5 million annually is requested to establish an Institutional Name, Image and Likeness Program, or nil, that provides fair and competitive compensation to student athletes.

In the current landscape of collegiate sports, NIL opportunities are critical for retaining local talent and attracting elite athletes who can elevate Hawaii's national profile. Athletic Director Matt Elliott and I are both here to answer questions you may have about that.

Our Capital Improvement program budget requests $283.1 million for FY2627 supporting primarily capital renewal, deferred maintenance and modernization products projects across 10 campuses. We focused on priority areas that we could not afford to do within our own means and these investments are essential to maintaining the safe, functional and up to date learning and working environments.

In closing, once again, thank you for attending our strategic briefings earlier this year. Many of you attended. Thank you so much for that. We are working to ensure that our direction and priorities are, to the greatest extent possible, transparent, collaborative and aligned.

We are enthusiastic about the opportunity to work with you this session and look forward to our conversation. And with that I'll turn it over to the Vice President to talk about the tables, if you would like us to.

Okay. I just had a question. So you mentioned you created the Aizar and then what was the other Vice President that you created?

We did not create another one. We are considering and we'll put forward to the Board of Regents an Associate Vice President for Workforce development that combines the different programs across in multiple places into a centralized unit that can really drive change across our economy and workforce.

Okay. So that would be almost a reorg from the current VP of Academic Affairs.

Right now we have. We have workforce development positions sitting both at the community colleges and under the system level, Vice President for Academic Affairs. So this would involve a reorganization? That's correct. But with. That has not yet.

That one I mentioned because it is so critical to our workforce initiatives, but has not yet been approved by the Board of Regents.

Okay, and so how would P20 fit into that?

That's a good question. That. That remains to be seen in conversations as we work through where it really belongs. But again, my thought is we need to have an orchestrated ecosystem where all the different pieces of workforce development are reporting to a single point of contact that is focused on innovation and rapid deployment. Yeah, yeah.

And probably better ways to hold people accountable.

Absolutely.

So how would the performance based funding fit into that?

So let me write my notes here. One of the first things that I was interested in looking at in performance based funding was how does it not just reflect the number of degrees that we grant? You know, those things will wax and wane depending on demographics and enrollment and things of that nature.

Those are important statistics and they have driven how we've done performance funding. We are moving to a new system of performance funding that is much more tied to outcomes of who once they matriculate, do they graduate, are they retained, what are the workforce outcomes once they come in? So that would all be connected as part of this.

As we're talking about, as I said, an ecosystem of accountability and aligned direction across the system.

Yeah.

So the outcomes have sort of on this, Right. How many, how many students graduated? Do they graduate on time? That's been in their original performance based budgeting. And over the years, the university has not met the metrics that they had set up. So have you redone the metrics?

We are in the process of doing that right now. For the last six months, we've been exploring what are the metrics that actually reflect impact and frankly also reflect effort. It's one thing there are conditions.

Some of them we can control, some of them we can't what we want to do is infuse and reward innovation that attempts to move the needle, even if sometimes it fails, in order to continue to really spur that type of growth and development where people don't meet the standards.

So, yeah, we're, I would say 80% done of looking through that at this point and we'd be happy to share the specific metrics that we're looking at with you.

Yes. Because in the meantime that money is sitting there and the university has been taking advantage of all of it, even though they didn't meet the, the outcomes and met the metrics that folks devised.

And so that money, it meant to, it's meant to incentivize and when you don't meet it, then you're not supposed to be able to keep it. But the UHS has kept it. And I know we've talked about this.

Yeah, I can't speak to what the operational structure of the legislation is. I don't. My understanding is it does not revert back to the state. What I can tell you is when I came in, the money that was left over was specifically identified for high impact scaled student success intervention technology.

Again, on the it's one thing to reward outcomes, but it means nothing if we're not incentivizing additional growth and development of those metric attainments.

And so that was, frankly, one of the first things that I did was ask where is that money and how can we deploy it for the reason for which it was allocated, which is student outcome?

I certainly agree, but again, uh, came up with the metrics, not us. And so if you don't meet your own goals then, and that's why we had a Bill last year and hopefully a bill this year saying if you don't meet your goals then you shouldn't be able to keep it. It should come back to the state.

So how, how are you creating, I guess, goals or metrics for the existing system currently in lieu of performance? Yeah, I mean while you're waiting to re, establish or reorganize what's, what are.

The metrics, happens once a year in terms of that assessment. So since I've been here, we've done this once and I can call it, want to come up and speak, I call up my vice President of Academic affairs who will have more of the historical piece of it. What I. Debbie, you can answer that first. Sure.

Aloha, everyone. Debbie Halbert Vice President for Academic Strategy what we did this year was use the last year's performance metrics to allocate. The funding to this to the different campuses.

What portion of the funding got allocated? Let me pull that up.

Because you didn't meet the goals, right? Not all of them.

Yeah, the goals. The goals in the past. Performance is really set on the. It was originally set on the aspirational 55 by 25. And so we backtracked from that and that's how we got to the increases over time. So the goals were not necessarily intended or were not potentially reachable in any given year.

What we've done in the last iteration prior to President Hensel coming forward is we, we tried to do something which would allow us to have a baseline that recalibrated as we understood where we were each year. And so that's how we allocated it last time.

Based on what, though?

Based on a three year average of achievement on the metrics itself, if that makes sense.

Achieving what?

Well, we have the specific metrics including graduation rates, retention rates. The last one, the last performance metrics also included specific categories of students that we hoped to see increases in. So again, these were aligned with the legislation itself.

Okay, but how much of it was based on graduate graduation rates in areas of need? Or is it just. Oh yeah.

So one of the kp, One of the specific ones is Pell eligible students, et cetera. And then of course, we had Native Hawaiian students, Pacific island students, and Filipino students as identified as targeted populations who have.

We need teachers. So how many grad. How many are we graduating more teachers? We need healthcare workers. Are we graduating more healthcare workers?

The performance funding was more General than that, but we do have individual based.

On the needs of Hawaii, the state. If not, they're not, they're not in sync.

So the classic. We don't have the new microphones in here. Right. You need. Yeah, the, the classic assessment of student success, which I understand was the motivating factor. Absolutely, is graduation and retention rates. We are more than happy to work and add additional factors that you think are significant.

I understand that we've had the, the discretion to do that, but especially as we are looking at them now to make them meaningful, to drive change as opposed to simply be an additional source of support. We're happy to sit down and talk and add, you know, factors that you think are critical to be in there.

Well, that's part of the reason why you see some legislation like last year, Senator Hashimoto had legislation for a bachelor's in nursing at Maui College because we see the need. He sees the need for the county, but it didn't seem like the system saw the need, which is why he had to do it and do the Bill.

So that's where I think there's not an alignment of where what we see, the overall workforce demands that we have to try to comply with and meet standards. And then what you guys are doing, which are, are just based on maybe graduation rates, not necessarily what industry needs or community needs are.

Yes, we do have the General overview performance funding, but we do have additional initiatives we can brief you on that we're doing in terms of nursing, education, et cetera. And so last year we were involved with the Lieutenant Governor in a series of internal components as well as external components to increase the number of teachers.

These are individualized by program and of course, system wide. We have to coordinate across our many programs. So it's not as if these are ideas that we've ignored. They just haven't surfaced to the level of general performance funding as they're currently articulated.

But going back to your point where sometimes you're going to miss the mark, right? But at least you tried. You had innovative, which is why if you miss the mark sometimes it might be, maybe it's, it is a resource or a facility, then at least we know how we can support.

But when you're, when you're not even going in that direction down, we're working in a, in a vacuum of trying to get a certain career ladder going so we can get the outcomes that the state needs.

So we're talking a little bit apples and oranges. I hear you on the performance funding that you would like to see, those metrics in the performance funding specifically that's been allocated by the state. That's absolutely something that we can do and something that I don't believe that we've done before.

That's a different question than whether there's an accountability structure in terms of performance for chancellors, for system performance, for programs that are responsive to workforce development, and whether we hold accountability and infuse resources in those areas that we control. So a little bit, A little bit apples and oranges.

But either way, if we know that you're trying to figure, try to meet the demands of the industry and the community and you fall short, then we could assist in some manner either through funding or funding, a facility or funding, it doesn't matter apples or oranges.

If wherever you're short and you're trying to meet industry and community needs and you need our help. If we can see that, okay, that's legitimate and we want to help, then we want to versus you're doing your thing and we're doing our thing. Because the Bill was legislatively introduced. It wasn't as at a request of the system.

We do have a report that identifies our progress toward high demand workforce areas that tracks our progress. So there is tracking of that. I don't have that in front of me, but we certainly can provide. It isn't that we aren't paying attention to it. It's just not part of this particular incentive.

No, that's fine.

It's just that we don't under. So wherever you're at, when you know what the bumps in the road are or what the gaps are and you find that you cannot fill them, you don't have the resources to fill them, you might need legislation, you might need a new facility that's not being communicated to us.

Yeah.

So we're working in a vacuum trying to like introduce more bills or CIP to try to get this thing going.

Let me also point to another example. So I've been. I worked with Maikunabasami on community college getting nursing or nursing aid program at Honolulu Community College, because most of the care homes and the caregivers are west are from. From Kalihi all the way to Waipahu. And yet the. You.

You got to go to KCC if you want to get a nursing. Nursing or nursing aid or whatever it is. So I said, why are we putting a program at hcc? And so they talked about doing the Hub and the Spoke and that HCC book. And I said, fine, but I don't even know what's happened with that.

And that's been like two years in the working. Again, these are things that we've communicated and as the chair has said, we don't get an update. So one of the issues I'm asking right now is when you do this new metrics, is that something that we're supposed to. I got to look at the statue.

I forget if we're supposed to approve that metric because. Because on one hand, you're saying using the old metrics, but you also sound like you're inputting new metrics in old metrics. So I. I'm confused as to what metrics you're actually following for this last award.

The transition year.

Yeah. And then again, it's consistent. How much did you actually award that I don't know.

Okay. Yeah. So you don't want to at least do some tweaks to it in the transition year.

Well, that's what would.

Well, part of it is to reward is to incentivize and hold accountability, being able to identify what those are in advance so that people can be working toward those goals. Was part of the transparency issue. But certainly, as I said, there was a substantial, if I recall, at least half of the money was not awarded.

So you know, that's. That was the reinvestment and high impact practices that we.

But we. She's saying the other half went to setting up the new system. Is that what you're saying? Incentive monies? So what? The money you didn't spend. So yeah, the campuses. You're using it to set up this new.

No, it went to system.

So we re evaluated our performance metrics to align with our strategic plan prior to President Hensel arriving. And then there was, as we've already discussed, the allocation to the campuses. And then the remaining funds was left to the system to again allocate using strategic priorities aligned with the specific metrics that we had outlined.

And that's all on our website. So you can review it and I can certainly send you the relevant information.

So the half that you didn't spend.

So that would have. So then I believe, President Huntsel, you. That's some of the money that we've been putting towards the system-level strategic initiatives to support student success system-wide.

Okay, so you have a breakdown of how that's being spent and the outcome for spending that. That half. What are we going to be able to. It's just what do we see from that? What do we.

It still has to be mapped to the performance metrics themselves. So the idea behind the strategic pool at the system level is to support campuses in achieving the metrics.

And as we go through the new process of identifying and refining those which do include a camp, a college to workforce component in the new version that isn't in this current one, then we'll be targeting assessment based on those going forward.

Okay, so when you say some of that money is going to be used to support the campuses to achieve these outcomes, what does that mean? What kind of support are you? I don't know. Give me an example of that.

So much like you just said, if we know specific items that you could help us with, what we anticipate is campuses will come forward and say we need support to fulfill this particular key initiative that will improve this particular metric. And then we can allocate funds to do that.

Here's my concern. So we gave you a pot of money and saying if you achieve this, but you'll get this money. And so they didn't achieve it, they achieved some. You gave them some money, the rest of the money.

And so now you're saying if you achieve it, we're going to give you the money that you didn't earn, but we're going to give it to you so now you can earn it again. It's so why are we even doing this?

Because it's supposed to be based on them doing you get this extra money, not take that money and then say okay, go achieve.

Well, a lot of the problem is that most ways of measuring student success take multiple years to really see the impact. And so over the last.

So we shouldn't be giving you the money now then we should wait multiple years.

It's aligning the use of performance funding to improve student success along the metrics with actions that are going to take multiple years to show evidence of improving. So if we do something to help with retention, we still don't have evidence of that until multiple years after the student has been retained and graduated. Does that make sense?

So there's inevitably this, what do you.

Do with the money in the meantime?

We continue to support initiatives that would help to facilitate those particular initiatives.

But the performance based monies were given specifically for outcomes of your current funding, not of this funding, of your current funding.

If you achieve this with your current funding, then you get this, not that you can get this money, we're going to give it to you and then with that, because that's what you did, you gave and they still never achieve. You still didn't award at all because the year before you had leftover money that went to system.

Supposingly you told us last time you're going to put it to help them achieve. And they still didn't achieve it this time around because you got half the monies didn't get awarded. Right. Isn't that.

I think if I can just add, I hear your, your frustration and I think replicates to some extent my concern when I came in. How are we taking this money not to essentially reward in some, some respect, but actually move the needle. Right.

Which I think is the whole point is how do we continually get better in terms of student outcomes? And so the money my understand, if my understanding is wrong, this is good for us to identify my understanding, not allocate it that money was to be spent for additional ways to move those needles.

And we invested it for example in EAB navigate and procuring that here. Because what, what used to happen was that money would go out in multiple different avenues.

Say for example faculty development where you've got a few, you know, good stuff people are, are getting better at something but not high impact best practices that move needles have been shown to move needles across multiple universities.

And so EAB Navigate is that tool and we took that money for that outcome and you should see results from that. And we're happy to report those next year. I mean it's still being implemented, but the point was always to have that accountability by implementing significant high impact practices that actually move outcomes. Yeah.

Yes, thank you. I'm very impressed with you, President. To include. This is the first time I think that we've heard from Manoa and the Administration and the university. We finally added athletics as an interest of your priority. And we certainly appreciate that as well. But with regards to our chair, he has been very.

An item that he's always been encouraged to do.

5 million is not for Hilo, you know. I know.

I know. But because it goes.

You're impressed by that. Good friend.

It goes to UH Med. But we also have the encouragement from uh, Manoa to our Hilo campus and they've been a big supporter. But what I was going to say is our chair has always been involved with encouraging workforce development.

And I'm really happy and pleased that the board of regents added the healthcare initiatives because we know statewide particularly it needs help and encouragement and we need to keep our workforce with the doctors. However, I'd like to go on to our CIP budget that the Board of Regents approved.

Interesting that the board approved the improvements on the cipher to a lot of the programs that we see. But interesting. The Governor must love you guys because if you notice the governor's CIP, he added $137 million to your CIP budget. That was really an. I mean.

No. He cut the budget.

Did they cut it? The governor's budget?

You have to compare what the board of Regents asked for versus what the Governor.

That's what I'm looking at.

Yes. So you should look at table four. Correct.

So if you notice. I noticed that the community colleges from the governor's budget included a lot more than what the board approved.

No, you're reading it wrong.

Yeah. Us you can explain.

Really?

There were that go to the table then.

So there are. There's the board of Regents request, Senator. And then there's the request that as we've gone through the process, through the budget and finance and the Governor Executive. Maybe we can just cut to the case.

How much in dollar amount necessarily. Every item. Did the Board of Regents approve for operating?

For operating? For operating. It was approximately $18 million.

Okay, 18 million. And how much did. How much did the board of regents approve for CIP?

About 280 million.

Okay, and how much did you get in operating?

We got zero.

Okay, and how much did you get in CIP?

We got 130. Approximately. 130. So that's about half, correct?

That's right. Okay. So, yeah, so they're not getting.

So they got a quarter of what their total ask is.

We're appreciative of anything that we can get. Given the financial situation, I can see.

Why you're happy for the 5 million.

And I ask is that because it seems like that community colleges.

I wanted to know the benefits for the neighbor islands because according to what I understand, and I think the Governor was interested in actually giving a lot more money to the community colleges and to make sure that we have our fair share with programs with the community colleges for our neighbor islands.

There's nothing in there for operating 10 million.

And that's the question I was going to ask is where is the support that we're getting for our community colleges that benefit our neighbor island campuses?

So on the CIP side, Senator, you know, we did go in. We do have as part of the governor's package, approximately $20 million that was added for college capital renewal and deferred maintenance. And so this is kind of their.

But historically, when it came to community colleges, the. The majority of the money that went to community college were legislative ads. Exactly. That's correct. No, but you're saying it's fifth floor. Well, saying it's second and third.

Okay, I think you got it mixed up. And again, we're appreciative of anything that.

You are willing to by 20 million, right?

No, no, that's for 30.

And they only gave them 20. Okay, so let me just go on refit to say that historically we have given monies to the community colleges. Okay. So Senator Inouye, however, I remember your.

The last fiscal officer or VP bashed us for giving money to the community college and not to Manoa and based that on the square footage, based it on the number of students, and bashed us for giving it to the community college instead of money. Remember that? It's in writing.

I remember that. And you know, I can't speak for the. And I can't speak for the previous vice President of budget finance, but I mean, I think there is an understanding that, you know, the Legislature does play a significant role in terms of how funds are allocated to us, and it is our responsibility to, you know, to try and meet the amount of legislative intent that's being put forward.

But this particular request and what we're trying to accomplish with the community college system is, you know, there is a significant deferred maintenance backlog throughout the university system. And you know, in order to just maintain, just to keep up to it, we would need approximately $100 million a year.

Okay, yeah. So let me ask this question then. And by the way, I really got to commend you for holding your budget forum. I watched it and I think that's the first time ever that I've seen that the Administration held something like this. And I think it was well received.

They did a whole budget for the university as well as the public. But at that meeting, Calbert, your person, you succeeded, had a presentation on the current balance that there is $420 million that you folks have. And of that for the reserve, the regents only require 175 million for that reserve.

So you have 245 million above the reserve. And I guess my question is, well, how is that money being looked at? And if you're asking for monies for housing or for R and M and you need 100 million, well, you have 245 million. So how are you, how are you utilizing this?

So with the balances, especially in the balances.

The CCs, the community, this is.

Just overall cash balance, you know, and.

The tuition and fees is the system. Or both or separate. This is a system. Well, actually, the way that the tuition and fees, I mean every single campus, the 200 million.

Is that all campuses, just like four year campuses versus community?

Well, you're asking how it's held or because it's held in different.

Yeah, but the total amount.

That's the total amount process.

But then you have a breakdown of where it's held each other. We maintain an account for each individual campus and how much in TFSF is, is contributed by each particular campus. Yes.

So, yeah, so the. So you have 245. Approximately 245 million more than what the Board of Regents require you to have in reserve. And I understand you want to keep a healthy reserve, but you know, these are times when you're asking for funding and everybody's cutting back. So you know, where's this money?

And if the Legislature was to sweep some of this money, you wouldn't want that, right?

Well, as you can see from the original Board of Regents budget request, we did not ask for any additional money except in two areas, as I said, that were primarily focused on state impact or where you may choose to have additional investment because of the effects on the state.

We have a detailed, are having detailed conversation about Strategic investment at a moment when we are hemorrhaging money, as you know, from the loss on the federal side, as I said, we're up to I guess $110 million we've lost already with another 150 million that are potentially your loss.

And what areas did you lose it?

We can give you a research, but also many student facing programs through title three because we need to see Native Hawaiian serving programs.

Research, because you're taking in $700 million in research. So but in operating.

It'S the difference difference between a snapshot and the projection. Right. The snapshot was beautiful. The projection because they are multi year grants. If they. You will not see major changes in that in a single moment.

But you will see, as I said, what we've seen in the last six months, for example, is already a diminution of about 50% of new awards and new funding. So it is quite a signet. And that's before you come into the sphere of what is no longer possible. Right.

A lot of these Title 3 grants that are student success initiatives, Native Hawaiian Serving, Asian American serving programs have now been declared unconstitutional by the Department of Education. Hasn't been impacted yet, but we expect that it will.

All of which is a long way to say we are absolutely looking at those funds to handle our own business, do strategic investment in student success, AI, workforce development, etc. So that's. That's the plan for that funding. Yeah. That's why we did not come with additional ask to the Legislature.

Okay. So but some of that money can be used say for your nil requests. 5 million. Right. Or for your health initiative as well.

Right, all of those. Well, it. Did you want to say something?

Yes, it can. But there is also because these are balances that are carried over time and you know, expenses such as NIL are going to be year over year expenses. The sustainability of reserve balances. As you continue to draw that down. I think that there is a. There's a inherent discussion around how we utilize those reserves.

And I think President, as I come on board is, was really talking about how do we strategically deploy those reserves and those cash balances going forward.

But expenses such as nil, Senator, and I understand what it is that you're saying will continue to go on and would end up eroding the balances of the tsff, tfs, TFFSF acronyms, but would continue to erode it and then we would not be able to accomplish some of the strategic initiatives that I think, you know, President as well as the Legislature is Asking for.

So it relates to. And I mean, that's a really good question. And I want to say I, I not only hear you, I agree with you. It is our obligation to be spending down this money on strategic return on investment for exactly what? The accountability, the deliverables.

It's frankly inexcusable at some level not to be deploying those resources to their highest and best uses continuously. So that's actually a refrain that I've been talking about. The nil question is a little bit different. The state has a vested interest in the performance of the athletic program. And I'll give you just a quick example.