Senate Standing Committee on Transportation and Culture and the Arts

Aloha. We're convening the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs and our good friends from the Committee on Transportation, Culture, and the Arts on this Tuesday, March 25th, 3 o' clock in the dungeon, otherwise known as room 016. This hearing is being streamed live on YouTube.

If we have any kind of technical difficulties, we will post a notice as to when we will reconvene. We're going to ask that each testifier be limited to one minute of testimony. We have a number of resolutions on the agenda, the first being SCR 68 / SR 52. And on our testifiers list is absolutely no one.

So, we're going to go on to our next set of resolutions that is SCR 159 / SR 129. And for this we have a whole bunch of interested parties. First, Melodie Aduha from the Democratic Party of Hawaii has submitted testimony in support. Members. I am look - I'm looking at the sheet.

We probably have about 25 people in test - in who have submitted testimony. I would venture to guess that seven of them are in support and 18 or so are opposed. Oh, we have one individual, Mary Healy might be joining us via Zoom.

Yes, she is on Zoom.

Okay. Welcome Mary.

Hi, Mary Healy, just here to testify an opposition. I stand on my written testimony, and I'd just like to ask you all to prioritize the citizens of Hawaii over petition Congress for any more funds for the Ukrainian war.

I think we saw last month that [unintelligible] came to the White House and was completely disrespectful and gambling with starting World War Three. And we have so many problems in the State of Hawaii right now, so many people leaving, whether it's Kamaaina or Kanaka. I would just ask you all to prioritize that.

And thank you for hearing my testimony.

Thank you, Mary. We also have David Asinks, individual. You want to come up?

Okay.

Okay. So, I sent a testimony over basically opposing because I believe that we shouldn't be spending money, I mean any more money than our government already gave to Ukraine, and how it's being, I guess, how it's being portrayed over the media.

And I don't know what, how you guys are viewing it, but it's as like you guys are just painting Russia as the bad guys invading Ukraine.

Of course, you know, humanitarian wise, we don't want anyone to be killed, of course, but, but what I've learned in doing research and looking at both sides and things like that, I, I do believe that from what I understand from like Tulsi was saying is, like, how it wasn't like a unprovoked attack.

You know, it had to do with NATO. And from what I understand, like, Russia told NATO, like, not to. They weren't gonna - they didn't want to have Ukraine be part of NATO because their borders would be surrounded by NATO, basically and that was kind of like the agreement, from what I understand what Tulsi was saying.

And because of what Biden did about trying to allow.

Can you summarize, please?

Oh, sorry. But so basically it wasn't an unprovoked attack. So basically, Putin had his warnings ahead. Like, if you do this, he has no choice but to attack. So basically, what I'm saying overall, like, I oppose giving any more money to Zelensky and to Ukraine. Not because you don't want to back them up.

It's just that it's been misspent. And he also stated that half the money wasn't even received. So, there's a lot of corruption going on. And I know Elon and DOGE is just trying to fine on that, but I'm just saying, like, we shouldn't be giving any more. Like, we gave them more than enough. And we have, and I'm just very disturbed of how our representatives from Hawaii being represented.

Your time's up. Thank you. Alice Abelanita, excuse me if I mispronounce your name, Alice.

My name is Alice Abelanita from Ewa Beach. Thank you for hearing my testimony. I'm in strong opposition to this bill. I stand on my written word. And I'd like to add the fact that Hawaii has a lot of issues. There's a lot of homeless people. People are barely - they're struggling to survive, put food on their tables.

And I cannot in the life of me understand why we are sending money overseas to another country to a war that has, that country is known to be the most corrupt country on the planet. It's the number one human trafficking country of the world. There's money laundering going on, corruption, and I'm strongly opposed to this.

We do not be needing to send more money away from, from, from our people here. And we're already in debt to the rail. I mean, you think about how much stuff. The infrastructure we need, we need to help the Hawaiian people here, the people that live here take care of us first. Okay? Okay.

Thank you for hearing my testimony.

Thank you. Thank you, Alice. And so, I have for those indicating they'd like to testify on these two resolutions. Anybody else wishing to testify on Senate, excuse me, yeah, Senate Concurrent Resolution 159 and Senate Resolution 129? Members, any questions of those who are here? Okay, we're going to move on to the next pair of resolutions.

They are Senate Concurrent Resolution 182 and Senate Resolution 152. And this is to initiate a Summer Streets Pilot program. On our testifiers list we have Samantha Lara from OMPO who might be joining us via Zoom.

Not available on Zoom, Chair.

Thank you. Dylan Armstrong has submitted testimony and support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on.

Yes, please come...David.

Just reading over this, this, this bill or whatever; I just feel like - how come we can't take this up in the board, the district board meetings of what the community wants for the community communities and instead of create a whole pilot thing, why don't we just hear what the communities want and try to go off of that?

Why is it has to be a whole another thing created? That's all I want to say.

Thank you, David. Anyone else wishing to testify on these two results? If not, members, any questions? Okay, going to move on to the next pair of resolutions. They are Senate Concurrent Resolution 200 and Senate Resolution 180. And this is requesting AMPO to coordinate a transportation management training program.

On our testifiers list we have Mike Gary from AMPO has submitted testimony support and Dylan Armstrong also in support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on Senate Concurrent Resolution 200 and Resolution 180? Yes. Welcome David.

I oppose this because I feel there's too much government bureaucracy and I feel the people in charge of the transportation, why don't - isn't it their job to figure out and to explore or research what's the best situations or solutions for our transportation instead of creating a whole another training program or something. Isn't that their job?

We like for it to be efficient. So that's so I oppose creating a whole another thing for it.

Okay, great. Thank you for your insights. David. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on these two resolutions. If not, members, any questions? Okay, if the members don't mind, we're going to just jump straight into decision making on these eight pieces of legislation.

On Senate Concurrent Resolution 68 and Senate Resolution 52, requesting the counties to authorize the percentage of taxes generated by the general excise tax and fuel tax collected by the counties to be used for the maintenance of privately owned roadways that are open to the public. Members, we have zero testimony on this measure.

I don't like to pass bills that have absolutely no support. So, I'd like to defer action on these two resolutions. The next two resolutions, SCR 159 / SR129, urging Congress to continue to support the US the Ukrainian military. The recommendation is to pass with technical, with amendments. But the amendments are technical and non-substantive. Members, any discussion?

If not Senator Chang? I vote yes.

Chair's recommendation for SCR 159 and SR 129 is passed with amendments. [Roll Call]. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Committee on Transportation, Culture and Art, same recommendation. If there's no discussion, Acting Vice Chair for the vote, please.

Okay. Chair's recommendations to pass with amendments SCR 159 / SR 129. [Roll Call]. Mr. Chair, your recommendations is adopted.

On the next two resolutions: Senate Concurrent Resolution 182 and Senate Resolution 152. This is to initiate a program to have Summer Streets, Summer Street Pilot Program. And from what I understand, the community has actually expressed support for this idea.

And I think it's Monsarrat, right, in Kapahulu that is looking to initiate this program and bring people out of their homes and gather on the street. I think that's a very worthy project to for us to pursue. So, I'd like to pass this measure out these two resolutions out as is any discussion. Yes, Senator.

So, this is for non-motorized bikes or transportation?

No, no. This is about just closing down the streets when appropriate and then bringing people out together.

Okay.

Yeah, not -

I was getting flashbacks of my community. I'm so sorry.

Oh, okay.

It'd be the oldest ones.

Okay. Any other discussion on these two resolutions to pass them as they are. If not, Senator Chang; I vote yes.

Chair's recommendation for SCR 182 and SR 152 is to pass unamended. [Roll Call]. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Committee on Transportation, Culture, and Art, same recommendation. Chair votes yes.

Okay. Chair recommendations to pass SCR 182 / SR 152 unamended. [Roll Call]. Mr. Chair, your recommendations adopted. Thank you.

And on the last two pair of resolutions, SCR 200 and SR 180, this is requesting AMPO to coordinate transportation management training program. Would like to pass this measure out with amendments, but the amendments are technical and non-substantive. Any discussion? If not, Senator Chang. I vote yes.

Chair's recommendation for SCR 200 and SR 180 is passed with amendments. Members present. Are there any objections or reservations. Seeing none. The recommendations adopted.

Thank you. Thank you. Committee on Transportation, Culture, and Art, same recommendation. Chair votes aye with amendments.

Chair recommendations to pass SCR 200 / SR 180 with amendments. Of the four members present, any no votes or votes or reservations? Seeing none. Mr. Chair, recommendations adopted.

Great. Thank you. We are adjourning this Joint Committee. Welcome.

It's just our lowly Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs on this Tuesday March 25th at about 3:01 in the afternoon in room 016. Again, we're streaming this hearing live via YouTube, so if there's any kind of technical issues, we will post a public notice as to when we are going to reconvene.

We ask those who would like to testify to limit your testimony to one minute. We have two items actually four items on this agenda. First pair are Senate Concurrent Resolution 18 and SR 14, requesting the postmaster to relocate the Pearl City Post Office to the United States State's Navy property in the Pearl City Peninsula.

And on our testifiers list we have Larry Veray. He's from the Pearl City Neighborhood Board, has submitted testimony in support of these two measures. Is there anyone in the audience or online wanting to testify on these two measures? if not, members - I'm sorry, Mr. Veray is not here, so there's no one to ask questions of.

Now we're going to move to the next pair of resolutions. They are Senate Concurrent Resolution 136 and Senate Resolution 150. This is to request the State Energy Office to convene a geothermal energy working group to evaluate the regulatory and policy landscape surrounding geothermal thermal energy in Hawaii. On our testifiers list for this these two measures is Jimmy Tokioka from DBEDT, has submitted testimony and support. Leo Asuncion from the PUC has - oh, someone from the PUC here?

Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee. My name is Jessica Simon. I'm an analyst at the PUC. I stand on the commission's written testimony and I'm available for questions.

Great. Thank you, Jessica.

Mark Glick from the Energy Office has - oh.

Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee, Monique Zanfes for the Hawaii State Energy Office. We stand on our written testimony with comments. We do support this measure, but we do request one minor revision and that is that the report be due in 2027 rather than 2026.

This is really to align with the resource characterization work we are doing with both DBEDT and UH. Available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Monique. Michel Angelo from DCCA, Consumer Advocate.

Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee; stand on our testimony providing comments and a recommend an amendment. Thank you.

Thank you, Michael. Beatrice DeRego has submitted testimony support. We have Mike Ewall, I believe might be joining us via Zoom.

Yes. Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee. We ask that you oppose these resolutions contrary to the claims that geothermal will bring cheaper power. Geothermal has consistently ranked among the most expensive forms of electric power production right up there with trash and tree burning and nuclear power as documented by the federal government in my testimony.

Puna residents have been speaking up for many years with concerns about air releases of hydrogen sulfide and other chemicals brought up in the process, including toxic metals and radon health impacts in the community when they're exposed to those gases, drilling impacts from noise, well blowouts, underground fracturing and not plugging of wells, re-injection of toxic chemicals.

And it's not even a closed loop process like they claim, not to mention accidents. So solar and energy storage can meet our energy needs much more safely and at least four times cheaper. So please, let's not do this. Mahalo.

Thank you for joining us, Mike. We have...Kaylin Bray has joined us.

My name is Kaylin, and I am strongly in opposition of this bill. Kanaka Maoli have been fighting against geothermal testing on their homelands that our beneficiaries and it's not fair to keep doing this. It's also a violation of UN Human Rights Law. You can find this in...sorry, I had it right here.

I put it in my written testimony as well. But, oh; filed with the ILO Convention 169 under, as under the UN resolution, "All governments, including states, are required to develop systematic actions to protect the rights of indigenous and tribal peoples, including social and cultural rights, customs and traditions and institutions."

Looking at the public survey that was noted within the text of this resolution, it is highly skewed. It says, what was it? Sorry, I'm all over the place, but okay. I would go over what the statistical analyst says, but it says that - am I out of time?

Yep. You could summarize. I'll give you a minute.

Oh, sorry. Thank you. It says that they, their sample, they concluded their sample with 1,985 respondents across all four counties. At the time of this supposed study, there was over 1,426,535 residents. So, we're pulling to support this bill from 1,985 out of that whole poll. It doesn't sound like enough has been done to actually reach the community.

And we're just jumping to conclusions in order to meet the profits of everybody else but Kanaka Maoli. Thank you. I appreciate you.

Thank you.

Chair? Who's the individual representing?

Oh, were you representing your group or just yourself?

[Unintelligible].

Okay. Okay, Just curious. And Micah Munekata from Ulupono might be joining us via Zoom. Say here.

Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee, Micah Munekata here on behalf of Ulupono Initiative. Sorry, wasn't there today, but just wanted to testify in strong support of this measure.

You know, getting everyone on the same page, you know, all agencies involved, stakeholders that have been a part of this effort is, is really a great policy moving forward. We're also very supportive should there be any potential funding to support this particular working group, say in the budget bill or, or what have you.

We're very supportive of that moving forward. So, thank you very much, Chair, for hearing this measure.

Thank you for joining us, Micah. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on these two resolutions. If not, members, any questions? Sure, go ahead, Go ahead.

The guy was on Zoom before. His name was Mike.

Mike...oh Ewall; Mike, are you still there?

Yes, I'm here.

Okay, I just give maybe a couple of questions. So, this working group is going to look into alternative energy, especially with geothermal. You're talking about storage tanks. What kind of storage tanks are your storage. Whatever facility? What does that entail? When you said storage, storage of what?

Okay, I didn't mention storage tanks, but I did say solar with storage. That's something that HECO and KIUC are already using as the main thing that they're doing to expand their production of renewable energy; almost all the solar facilities being built have battery storage with them.

And while there have been some issues with fires with lithium-ion batteries, and there's a concern around that in many places, I've also recently received information about the modern fire detection and suppression systems that are starting to accompany these to address that concern. And so, it's something that should not have to remain a concern.

But when I spoke with KIUC about this, because I know there's a big issue around firm energy and wanting things to be firm. And I asked them, is solar with storage, which they've been developing quite a bit of, is that firm energy? And they said, yes, this is as firm as you want it to be.

If you want it more firm, you just add more batteries. It's as firm as you want it to be. And that's what the utilities are moving toward anyway. And it's at least four - between 4 and 7 times cheaper than geothermal based on the latest information from the Energy Information Administration.

Do you know how the batteries, that you're talking about, is manufactured?

I don't know all the details of it, but yes, I have some idea.

The only reason why I asked you this is because you're pushing batteries that they know; they're deep-sea diving, mining our ocean, raping the bottom of the ocean to make these batteries. So, if you like talk about environment. Let me finish.

It's not where most of it comes from, so.

I let you talk. Let me talk.

You talked about power plants and all this stuff. There's so much better technology when it come to waste to energy; way better than raping the ocean with his minerals to make these batteries: one. Two: I don't know what technology you're looking at. We're not talking about each power. You look at the technology today.

It's way better than any technology that have. Especially when you talk about firm energy. Batteries will never be firm energy. I don't care how much batteries you put, because if the batteries cannot get charged, guess what? There's no energy. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Okay, thank you.

Chair, um...State Energy Office.

Hi, Senator.

Hi. Thank you for being here. Do you have any of the information related to the tasks that are set out for the working group?

You know, some of this we are working on actively. A lot of our work right now has been prioritizing the resource characterization with UH. But you know, we are open to, to really framing that more.

So, do you think the working group is necessary to accomplish the objectives of this risk?

Yes, I do.

I think getting the members such as, you know, the Utilities Commission, UH, and you know, DLNR in particular, all in one room, I think that can be a really effective way of getting the work we need to get done and having it, you know, as a concurrent resolution gives us those teeth to convene the working group.

So, I was listening early to some of the testimony testifiers they talk about Kanaka Maoli: any of them involved with this working group.

That was actually a comment, I believe in our testimony. We did feel like the list, it does involve a board of trustee, but we did feel like the list could improve as far as Native Hawaiian representation.

And because the bill or the resolution allows for us to add an appropriate party, that's something I think we are very willing to, to work with our existing communications. So, we're working with the Native Hawaiian communications firm, Paakai, to really find the appropriate partner there and include them in the working group.

Because I noticed some of your directors here are of Native Hawaiian that will be representing this as well as - I'm just curious to know a representative from the geothermal industry with an individual or whether the individual will be also of Native Hawaiian ethnic background.

Hard to say. I mean, we haven't named that person yet, so.

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chair. Okay.

You know, I - like the chair, I support this resolution because we need all the tools in the chest. But without this resolution, the Energy Office cannot conduct and do something like this to an extent, working with the different agencies and community leaders to do something like this.

We absolutely can and we are. I think this concurrent resolution really gives us and other agencies a little bit of a mandate. You know, particularly if there's time constraints. I mean, all state agencies are limited with time. But if there is a concurrent resolution and direction from the legislature to do it, it definitely supports the cause.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Any other discussion? If not, we will take a brief recession. Thank you for your patience.

We're reconvening the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs on our 301 agenda. Just want to address a couple of the statements that were made in this hearing. And when you talk about geothermal, there is no need for batteries or any kind of storage.

I mean geothermal, the beauty of it, it's 24/7 the bugger is hot and all you need is heat to create steam then to create geothermal. So, I think it's 24/7 I don't think we need any because PGV in geothermal - has no battery there.

I mean, as long as Mountain Kelly is hot, that baby is pumping out energy. With regard to the Native Hawaiian community somehow not benefiting, I mean, one of the top bills for DHHL this session was to go do geothermal on their lands.

So, the Hawaiians, I think are coming around to being very supportive of the idea of geothermal. But to that point, because it was pointed out that there is no specific Hawaiian, Native Hawaiian presence on this board, let's make a couple of amendments to this measure to specifically state that amongst the group of representatives on this board that we will have an individual from the Native Hawaiian community.

We will also add the Consumer Advocate to the membership of the working group, add the chairs of the House and Senate Committees on Energy to the working group, add clarifying language that they represented from the electric utility, the geothermal industry, and non-government organizations with experience in energy policy: you are invited to be participate to participate by the Chair of this committee.

Extend the date of the submittal of the report for the working group's findings to be 2027, not 2026 as outlined in the resolution currently and meet substantive, not - excuse me, technical, non-substantive amendments for clarity. Any discussion? If not, Senator Chang. I vote yes.

We're taking the second two first.

Oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah, you're right. Okay, sorry, that was my fault. But if you don't mind, we're going to take the last two, SCR 136. Yeah, I'm like I'd repeat that because it might not be as good the second time. So sorry. We're going to go with the bottom two resolutions for voting first. Apologize for that.

And so, Chair's recommendation for SCR 136 and 115 is to pass with amendments. [Roll Call]. Recommendations adopted.

Okay.

And on the first two resolutions SCR 18 and SCR 14, to compel - to promote the idea of the postal service moving their proceeding post office from the current location by the Walmart area and by the Home Depot there which is causing a humongous traffic jam for the people in that area to potentially looking at freely open, not free, open Navy land on the Navy Pearl City Peninsula.

We'd like to support that idea and would like to pass this measure, these two measures off with technical non substantive amendments. Any discussion? If not, Senator Chang. I vote yes.

Chair's recommendation for SCR 18 and SR 14 is to pass with amendments. Of the members present, are there any objections or reservations? Seeing none. The recommendations adopted.

Great. Thank you everyone. We are adjourned.