House Standing Committee on Public Safety

Good morning. Convening the Committee on Public Safety and the Committee on Waterland. Today is Wednesday, March 19, 2025, 10:30 am; we are in Conference Room 411. Just a little bit of housekeeping: typically, we don't have time limits, and we have a short agenda. These committees also typically DM, make decisions at the end of the hearing.

So, you're welcome to stay or leave if you need to. For those of you who are on Zoom, if there are any technical difficulties, you are messaging our staff, our very confident staff here at the capitol. So please ask them questions if needed. If we need to log off, we will do that and then log back on.

And please refrain from using any trademark materials as that will bump us off YouTube and you will not be able to be seen by the public. So, let's jump right in. Is that for me?

Oh, so we're not on YouTube.

OH, I'm gonna hide this, though. All right. First up, on Senate Bill 1381 relating to Hawaii National Guard, we have testimony and support from Department of Defense.

Morning, Chair, Colonel Nagatani, Hawaii National Guard Director of Staff, on behalf of Major General Harris, we stand on our submitted testimony and here to answer any questions if you have any.

Thank you. Testimony support from Major Stephen Logan, also from the Department of Defense. Same thing. Okay, also in support. Testimony and support from Michael Golojuch. Any other testifiers? Any testifiers? Seeing none. Members, any questions? Not here. You're off the hook. Thank you. Oh.

I just wanted to thank you for your service. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Senate Bill 422 relating to education. This is for high school diplomas for veterans. We have testimony in support from the Military Affairs Council. Testimony and support from Chamber of Commerce, Hawaii. Any other testifiers in the room? Department of Education is here.

Yes, sorry for not getting the testimony in. Ken Kakisaku, Department of Education. We stand in strong support of this measure. If any questions?

Thank you. Any other testifiers in the room? Any testifiers via Zoom Seeing none. Members, questions? All right, moving on to Senate Bill 414 relating to restoring access to disaster affected areas. This is related to condemnation of certain lands in Lahaina to build a new access road from Keawe street to Kilohana and Klaailoa sites.

We have first testimony and support from Dean Minakami, Hawaii Housing Finance and Development Corporation.

Good morning, Chairs, Vice Chairs, Members, Dean Minakami, Hawaii Housing Finance and Development Corporation. Just want to provide an update from our testimony that was submitted in writing. We've been coordinating with DOT as to the construction of the road and acquisition of the parcels needed to build the road.

And DOT has confirmed that they will be pursuing acquisition or condemnation of the parcels. So it will be DOT and not HHFC. And they are pursuing funding through the Major Disaster Fund for the acquisition.

Thank you for the update. We have testimony and support from Department of Hawaiian Homelands. Testimony and support from Department of Human Services. Testimony and support from Maui Chamber of Commerce. Any other testifiers in the room? Any testifiers via Zoom. Seeing non Members. Questions? Any questions? So just a quick question, Director.

In the draft, we should change Hawaii Housing Finance and Development Corporation to Department of Transportation. Would that be the appropriate thing to do?

Yes, I guess. Either defer because DOT cannot still acquire without the Bill or to change it to dot.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Seeing no other questions. All right, moving on to SB2.2 to 3 relating to fire prevention. This is our joint of Committee Bill Members. So first up, we have comments from Department of Education. And he just left. Oh no. We have testimony. Okay. You really want me to use those subpoena powers, don't you?

It worked on Public Safety. Public Safety worked on OPSD.

I guess it did. Testimony and support from Department of Land and Natural Resources.

Aloha Chairs Vice Chairs, Members of the Committee. My name is Michael Walker. I serve as the Wildland Fire Protection Forester for the Department of Land and Natural Resources, Division of Forestry and Wildlife. The Department has provided written testimony in support of this measure as well as comments.

Part one of the measure reaffirms the Division's mandate to prevent and control fires within its lands and proposes additional funding for its operations. In the Department's written testimony, I provided some information about past and present funding of the program as well as how another fire prone state funds its wildland fire agency.

In regards to part two, the Department recommends that the Legislature recommend that the Office of the State Fire Marshal adopt a Wildland Urban Interface Code, one that can be updated with best research and practices rather than putting the recommendations in statute.

In terms of part three, which would mandate the Department to reduce hazardous fuel on all state lands. Currently, the Department does not have the legal authority to do so.

However, a portion of the FY25 operating budget given to the fire program approved a community fuels reduction project where the Division is working with Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization Fund shovel ready projects in fire prone communities near state lands.

And while this program is in its infancy, the Division views it as a promising program to protect communities and watersheds. And the funds would be able to use as MATCH and federal grant programs. So I'm available for any questions you may have. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Walker. I think there will be questions. Let's stay here. We have testimony of comments from Land Use Research foundation of Hawaii. Anyone here for lurf? Because they did provide interesting testimony. Anyone here to testify in the room? Anyone on zoom to testify? Seeing non Members questions, Mr. Walker.

So taking a look at this Bill and looking at the testimony about what you folks have been funded in the past, you know, you give us what you've been funded in the past of 3.2 million a year and then last year's 18.85 of that 18.85 million.

How much of that is directed towards the grants program that you mentioned in the latter part of your testimony for Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization?

Yeah, we budgeted 1.5 million for this year. It's basically kind of a seed project, really, where we're looking at applications that have been submitted for federal grants that were unfunded but are pretty much planned out and shovel ready. We're looking to initially Fund those projects and then develop the application process and guidelines for next year.

And we think this is a promising program and it's something that the Legislature could fund further.

Okay, so the difference of 1.5 million is set aside for the grant. The remaining 18.85 million that was allocated for you folks for fiscal year 25. What does that look like in terms of what are you funding with the rest of that money?

So we got $10 million for the fiscal year that was we asked just for one year to redo our fleet of fire equipment that's including brush trucks, water tenders, bulldozers and other equipment used in fuel reduction work, like backhoes and masticators. There's 7.45 million in operating funds, part of which that grant program was a part of.

There's another $1.5 million to Hawaii wildfire Management Organization to do prevention, outreach, promote the firewise program, which has been a great success, as well as do fuel reduction work on the division's 1 million acres and also do some restoration of previously burned areas.

The remaining funds, which are 1.4 million, were to Fund the 22 positions were part of the package last year that passed the Legislature, was then vetoed by the Governor, but then funded by the major disaster Fund. The department's view was that we didn't want to go out and advertise these positions until they were.

We had the legal authority and the continuing funds to. Once we hired these people to continue to pay them, we didn't want to hire somebody. And then if we didn't get the funds this year in the continuing budget, we. We didn't want to go through that process and have to disappoint that person.

Certainly we don't want to be like the Federal Government that is now underfunding lots of positions. So on that note, then, those 22 positions, even though money has been allocated from the major disaster Fund, you haven't started recruiting for those, or you have?

We did not. We decided that we would use that money to Fund coopu to do fuel reduction work across the state for one year. And then once we got the positions approved this year, that we would then begin to recruit for those positions. But we have them all described.

We're waiting just to make sure that they are going to be there.

Okay, so when you talk about the additional funds for this Bill, I mean, again, you give us, like, what we've done in the past, what we did in 2025, and then what CAL FIRE expends. So what is the amount that, if you could put into the budget, into the community port, what would you want us to say?

I mean, a $10 million Fund for work that's occurring across the state on state lands as well as on community lands would be an effective amount, I believe. You know, we're starting out with 1.5 this year, and we. We would like to report back to you and say this is what we're.

We've been doing and we would like. We'd appreciate more.

Okay, $10 million then. All right. Any other questions? Chair, I mean, Vice Chair.

Go ahead. I wanted to know because. So the work that you folks are doing right now as far as, like, all the fire mitigation and fuel reduction, like, are you guys working with, like, the.

The folks that are doing, like, restoration, that are replanting koa and regions of that that are owned by DLNR and like, the mountaintops, like, how are you guys working in concert with each other? Because it sounds. Because I've been hearing some stuff in the community about how there's being.

There's Koa being grown at the tops of, like, the mountainside where Koa isn't really thriving. It's. It stunts their growth after a certain elevation, and then it creates a lot of fuel at the top of the mountains.

Like, so I want to know, like, what type of coordination is happening in DLNR and with RCUH when it comes to these kinds of efforts. Because we're like almost funding restoration and then we're also funding fuel reduction. And then you're like, okay, well maybe we shouldn't be growing there, maybe identifying those kinds of things.

But I'm not sure like what is being done in.

Okay, thank you for the question. I'm not aware of any co oplanting that we've done above its elevation range. So the fire program is a part of the forestry program and the forestry program managers at each branch usually act as the incident commander on any of the fires.

And one of the projects, particularly on Maui with the new Kamehame Nui addition to the forest reserves is there are plantings that are planned for that area as well as fuel reduction projects to protect those plantings.

So there'll be a section of Koa that's planted within the forest Reserve there and then there's an H style fence system that's going to go around the system around the Koa plantation in order to do targeted grazing within that area to reduce the grasses.

So the forest Reserve is adjacent to Haleakala Ranch and there is a lot of grazing that occurs adjacent to it. But there was also a fire there last year that burned all the way up to the property boundary.

So we want to make sure that no fires that occur on other lands will spread into the state's lands and impact that newly planted area. So we want to make sure we protect it. Okay, we're doing that this year.

Chair, is it okay if I ask, can you send us those, I guess, reports and those management plans if you have any?

Sure, yeah. Every forest reserve has a plan associated with it in terms of what activities are going to occur and what planned projects are slated for it. So I can provide you with those plans.

Particularly that one.

That would be great.

Okay, great. Thanks.

Thank you. Any other questions, go ahead.

Welcome.

Thank you. Chair, Question for DLNR In your testimony you mentioned part two that you recommend adopting a state fire code because standards and statute would be difficult to modify. So. And you also go on to express part three that cannot be implemented as written. The mandate would be a liability.

So besides the funding which is in part one, are you of the position that part two and part three should be taken out of this Bill?

You could just modify part two to encourage or mandate that the state fire council or, excuse me, the office of the state fire Marshal implement a wildland urban interface code which is currently absent from the state's fire code.

There's a couple of different examples of those types of codes and those really address Fire conditions and fuels management in the area known as the wildland urban interface. That's vegetation control, what people do around their structures, as well as larger landscape issues.

For part three, we currently don't have the authority to work outside of the division's lands, and if we did, there would be a certain liability associated that.

What we thought of and are working towards right now is to work with the Communities Fund, the communities that have the interest and the drive, and have worked on plans to address fuel issues on their lands that are adjacent to ours. And so we think that's a viable solution and something that.

That we can continue to work on.

Chair, can I ask another question? So did I hear you say that the state fire code, which you state in your testimony that there is no state fire code at this point?

No, there is. There is a. There is a state fire code, but it mostly deals with the built environment. So the portion of the code that we're suggesting adoption of is a wildland urban interface code, and that deals specifically with a lot of the vegetation concerns in where the wildland meets the urban area.

I see. So there is a state fire code, but as far as the content that this Bill is tasking, there's nothing in the current state fire code to address it adequately. Is that an accurate statement?

Yeah. Each county has vegetation requirements around structures, and they're not consistent across the board. And also the enforcement and penalties on those on that section of the code is also variable. So it'd be. It'd be good to have a statewide wildland and urban interface code that then the counties can adopt.

Great. I agree. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you.

Any other questions? All right, because you're the only one here, and I really. This question really is for lurking.

But on part two, for the fire code to require every owner or other person in control of any building structure, would it be appropriate to, say, easement owners as those who might be responsible for some of the vegetation management?

I'm a firm believer in that. Whoever has an easement also has the responsibility of the management of the vegetation to prevent any fires that occur on that lands? I don't think it's the responsibility of the landowner that is given the right and responsibility of entry to the easement holder to have to be responsible for that.

Okay. And then just again, in terms of terminology, is it easement owner, Easement holder.

Easement holder. Easement holder. Sorry, I'm not an attorney. So.

Okay. This is why LURF should be here and they should be watching this. Okay. All right. Thank you any further questions? All right. Seeing none Members, that's the end of our agenda and we are have quorum and are ready to take to make decisions. Is that good? All right, let's go on our 10:30 a.m. agenda.

Yeah.

First one Senate Bill 1381 relating to Hawaii National Guard. This is just a single PBS Committee Chair's recommendation is to pass this as is it has a good date Members but this is really a housekeeping as evident by the testimony. Any comments, questions or concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote.

Voting on SB 1381. SD1 Chair's recommendation is to pass as is. [Roll Call] Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Moving on to Senate Bill 422 relating to education. This is high school diplomas for our veterans. Chair's recommendation is to pass this as is it already has a defective date. Members questions, comments or concerns? Seeing none.V ice Chair for the vote.

Voting on SB4 422. HD1 Chair's recommendations to pass as is noting the excuse absence of Representative Woodson. Are there any Members wishing to vote? No. Any Members wishing to vote with reservations? Seeing none. Your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Vice Chair voting on Senate Bill 414 relating to restoring access to disaster affected areas. Members based on the testimony provided to day we'll change this amend it to House Draft 2. That includes reference to the Hawaii Department of Transportation instead of the Hawaii Housing Finance and Development Corporation.

It still has a blank appropriation as well as a defective date Members and then any other tech amendments that are identified by HMSO for style consistency and style and consistency. Questions, comments or concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote.

Voting on SB414 SD2 HD1 Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments noting the excuse absence of Representative Woodson. Are there any Members wishing to vote no or with reservations? Seeing none. Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Okay. Members moving to Senate Bill 223. This is on relating to fire prevention. We have a number of bills still moving, but there are fewer and fewer vehicles moving on fire prevention. So Chair's recommendation is going to be to pass this Forward with an HD1 in Section 1. In response to the testimony of Dylan R.

DOFA, we're going to add that the Department may perform may. It's not mandatory. It's permissive fuel reduction work on lands not set aside for the Department. So that addresses the question for part three.

Chair's next recommendation is in part two, to say that the State Fire Council may amend the state Fire code and to include in that list easement holders. This is going to be to address the concerns of Land Lurf Land Use Research foundation.

And it's also acknowledgement to some of the testimony that identifies that some of this is already happening in the PUC in the docket. And so this is again, to just move this along.

I do want to acknowledge that DOFA DLNR suggested that we have the State Fire Marshal be the one to do the amending of the state fire code. But there's another bill that's moving that's sorting out some of what the state Fire marshals will look out look like and the State Fire Council.

So we'll take this into conference with us knowing and understanding that that is kind of in flux. And I believe we need to have a defective date. And we will note in the Committee report for the appropriation for Section 3, I believe is the request is around $10 million for the community fuel reductions projects.

All right, Members, any comments, questions or concerns? Representative Shimizu, go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. I just want to confirm that the amendments that you just shared would address the concerns that DLNR expressed in their testimony.

Yes, they are trying to address that the may. The permissive nature of allowing for work on lands not set aside to the Department makes it so that it's not a mandate. It's only a permissive. It's going to be permissive based upon whether they have staffing, whether they have funds. That's done by us.

And so it really does address that and I think takes away the liability issue. We can still examine this later, but that's one of the ways that we make sure that it's not a mandate.

All right, thank you, Chair.

All right. Any other questions, comments or concerns? All right, Great work of Vice Chair for the vote. Okay.

Voting on SB223 SD2, the chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments noting the excused absence of Representative Woodson. Are there any Members wishing to vote no or with reservations? Seeing none. Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Waterland, same recommendation?

No, but I do want to thank Chair Bellotti for your work on this effort. And I know we had some discussion in regards to inserting some of the language for State Fire Marshal, but I understand what's happening, so I look forward to the discussion going forward. Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments? Okay.

Voting on SB223 SD2 recommendation of the Chair is to pass with amendments noting that Water and Land has the same Members as PBS and also noting the excused absence of Representative Woodson. Anyone voting with reservations or no? Okay. Seeing none. All Members vote Aye. Chair. Your recommendation is adopted.

We are adjourned on our 10:30 a.m. agenda. And we need to wait one minute. Actually, we are. Oh, perfect timing.

No. 11:00 o' clock on the notes.

Okay, okay, okay. Okay. We'll let the room clear.

Only two builds on this. All right.

We're gonna be out in like five minutes. Good.

This one is 223. Similar to the one that.

Good morning.

Convening our Committee on Public Safety for decision making. Today is Wednesday, March 19th, 11:00 a.m. Conference room four. 11 Members. These were measures that were heard on March 12th. Thank you for the good work and your diligence on these measures. Senate Bill 1379.

Senate Draft 2 is relating to emergency preparedness, establishing Community Readiness center programs to be implemented and administered by Hawaii Emergency Management Agency Members. We did receive email communications from Hawaii Emergency Management Agency with further information about allocations. So Chair's recommendation, based also upon the testimony provided in the email communications, is to pass out an HD one. That.

Acknowledges and includes the Hawaii Advisory Council on Emergency Management and County Management Administration in helping the agency to develop a selection criteria matrix of standards necessary for constructing Community Residents Readiness Centers. Provided that in this consultation process they shall also.

This group shall also be identifying geographic areas where Community Readiness Centers sites would be able to withstand natural disasters. So that's an amendment on page seven.

Sharer's recommendation is going to be to further defect the date to July 1, any tech amendments in identified by our drafting agency and then to put into the Committee report the proposal of 10.8 million for the initial design of four sites and an additional 1.2 million for contract support.

I had contemplated Members kind of striking the funding mechanism on the tax because we didn't really receive much information on that. But I'm going to allow that to be discussed in the Finance Committee.

And so if this is going to move forward, whether it's going to be a straight up General appropriation or if we're going to look at a tax revenue measure, that will be for the Next Committee to decide. Comments, questions or concerns. Go ahead. Representative Shimizu.

Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to clarify. Does the HD language still require in this bill a physical structures requirement?

I think that's going to. Yes, it does. To the extent that the program is going to be looking at setting up different types of centers in various communities. And what those will look like will be determined by the collaborative process. And it may be different for different communities. Right. That's the whole notion that this.

It might not be a one size fits all.

Understood. But they're still going to be tasked and the scope is to complete a structure, whether it's a brand new or modified or renovated space.

Then yes, it authorizes them to do that, but doesn't mandate anything specific. But it's going to come out of the discussions and consultations with this collaborative effort.

Okay. Because my opposition previously was the requirement for them to build this and they didn't have any information on budget or plans. And I felt that by us passing this bill and giving them this task was premature.

So I just wanted to confirm that the current amended language is to task them to pursue planning of it, but not necessarily completing physical construction.

I think that would be accurate to say that it's not putting any hard firm numbers, but to begin to do that.

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Yeah, I'm going to be voting with reservations because I actually think that there should be more county input and possibly funding for this. But we're not making note of that.

Vice Chair.

Okay, thank you. That's fair. Again, work in progress numbers, I think we keep pushing them and they keep putting hard numbers to this and more detail to it. So that is also part of the process. Okay. Any no further questions, comments or concerns. Vice Chair for the vote.

Voting on H. Oh, sorry. SB 1379. SD2. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. [Roll Call]

You move me from a no to our reservations. Thank you.

Great. Representative Sousa. Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Okay, moving on to our second Bill, Senate Bill 371 relating to property damage of critical infrastructure facilities. Members took a look at this and pulled up HRS 708820 which is criminal property damage in the first degree.

Chair's recommendation is going to make it to strike out the recklessly or negligently causing damage because having the split mens REA is not very sound. And so we're going to strike that and make it intentional throughout and then put in a defective date and any tech amendments identified for hmso.

I do want to acknowledge that the ags did offer amendments to the Critical infrastructure facility, but their amendment, upon further kind of research, really broadened the definition far too much.

So we're going to stay with the language and then let this get hashed out in Judiciary if needed Members, any and then leaving the exceeding $20,000 in the bill. That's another thing that I wanted to note. Again, these issues can be taken up by Judiciary if there are further concerns, comments, questions or concerns, seeing none.

Vice oh, go ahead.

Sorry, Chair, I just wanted to share with you that I was going to vote no on this, but because of your amendments on the men's Rea element, making it a little bit more heightening that thank you very much. And I'll be voting with reservations.

Oh, thank you. Wonderful. Vice Chair for the vote.

Voting on SB371. SD2. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments noting the the presence of every representative. Is there anyone wishing to vote? No. Anyone wishing to vote with reservations other than myself?

I'll join you. Rep. Iwamoto Reservations okay.

Otherwise. Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Members, before I adjourn, I just want to say thank you all for your great work. I think we are not going to have any more bills. I think we're done for this. I think we're done. So congratulations. We are going to have resolutions. So that's still up on the agenda. So we're going to adjourn.

But can we take a photo after we adjourn? Because this is the first time that we're all here.

On that note, we are adjourned.