House Standing Committee on Water & Land

Okay. Good morning, everybody. This is the Committee on Water and Land. My name is Mark Hashem. I'm the chair. To my left is Rachele Lamosao, Vice Chair. Today is Tuesday, January 28th, 2025. It's 9:00am and we're at the State Capitol in Conference Room 411. First up. Oh, crap. I'm supposed to have a paper.

I'm supposed to read. I don't have it with me. Okay, first up, we have HB114. It's relating to employment in the State of Historic Preservation Program. Our first testifier is correct. Wait, hold on. I don't have the proper test. Okay.

Okay. First up, we have Jessica Puff. DLNR in support.

Good morning. Ryan Kanaka'ole. On behalf of DLNR, the Department of Land and Natural Resources strongly supports HB 1144, which will strengthen our ability to retain qualified professionals in the State Historic Preservation Division. We're here to answer any questions. Mahalo.

Okay, next we have HGA in opposition. I don't see Randy, is. Are they on zoom? Okay. That's all the testimony that we have on this Bill. Is there anybody else wishing to testify, seeing none. Members, are there any questions?

Yes, Chair, If I can ask one question.

Go ahead.

This is regarding the. It seems like more frequent requests for exempt positions. I'm just wondering. I think we're headed more and more in that direction, which puts more at will employees and takes them out of any union benefits. Can someone talk to that?

So this measure is actually corrective in nature. We're trying to stay competitive with the private and federal private professionals paid in the same grade that we're looking at here, which is typically like our archaeologist class, our architects.

If we don't have this type of provision, transfer to civil service, the classification pay range will be much lower than our existing staff is getting paid who are exempt now.

And so if they were to convert to a civil service, we have a high chance of losing them and then hindering shipti's ability to, you know, carry out its mission.

Can't. Excuse me? Can't you create positions at that level at a higher salary range?

That would require. That's outside of the scope of DLNR's abilities. That would require D HERD to reclassify an entire classification of professional.

Okay. I just want you to know my concern on that. Thank you. Thank you.

Representative Bellotti, since you're on the hot. Seat, what are the steps that the Department is taking with D Herd to do that very thing? Because I'm going to have a Bill. We're going to have a Bill tomorrow that's in the same situation and there seems to be a need for a systemic fix.

So what are the steps that your Department is taking with D HERD?

That is a. It depends on the classification. So for these ones that we were seeking the civil service exemption from, I believe we've have we worked with the. I'll bring our administrator up for the. Because I don't want to go on record and say that we've worked with them to reclassify these specific professional classifications.

Hi everyone. I'm the administrator of SHPD. I have limited knowledge on our efforts in the past to do a reclassification on the positions with D. HERD. From my recollection from when my predecessor Dr.

Downer was working on this, it seemed like there was a complication because Shipti's positions in terms of the archaeologists and I believe the architectural historians, they are lumped in with other agencies. The classification is the same that other agencies use. And so we would have to work with D.

Herd to create an entirely new classification for our archeologists and our architects, architectural historians who work at shpd. And it takes time and I believe we started the process or at least started the conversation of starting the process with Alan and we need to pick that back up again.

But this is an immediate remedy that would allow the positions that the state Legislature created a couple of terms ago to remain at the pay levels that they're at right now.

It would not convert all of our civil service staff, just a limited number who were of positions that were established and the pay was increased in a previous legislative session.

One follow up. Chair. Chair. One follow up.

Oh, go ahead.

What is that number of affected people? Because we're talking about warm bodies. Right.

Sure.

We're talking about warmed up bodies and the number of people affected. Right. I believe. And this is a rough estimate. I'd have to do a more thorough count, but I think that it's at least 15 staff people out of a staff of. I think we have 33 staff people currently employed at SHPD.

I think a follow up because if this kind of Bill continues to move forward and I'll be asking the same questions of other departments as we see them. Sure.

And in the time I'll get the numbers straight so that we have a definitive number for you all.

And please continue to press D HERD because this is a systemic problem. This is not something that we should be doing by exemption.

And Rep. Belatti, I just wanted to add so in a General sense, Department wide when it comes to unfilled positions, we're typically looking at those positions, how long they've been and how many applicants we've gotten. And a lot of times you'll see the lower bands, you don't get any interest.

And at that point it triggers us to review classification again, go to D Herd, try to get it ratcheted up to maybe from a level one to level two, level three, something like that. And that's the General approach that we do. Department wide. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Okay, sure, go ahead.

I appreciate the concern about hiring qualified people and being competitive. My question would be. Thank you, Chair. Excuse me. My question would be, if we were to approve this, do we run into a future problem with, with the union?

Who are you asking the question to?

Whoever can answer it.

I think that that's a conversation between us and the union. I don't, I don't know the answer to that question at this point.

If these positions were to be exempt, then they would be exempt from civil service and exempt from the union contract which may have a long lasting cover like argument or discussion that we need to have with the union about these positions.

In particular, I don't know that it would have a systemic issue across all civil service non civil service positions statewide because this is very technical and specific in my opinion situation to ship D and our ability to stay fully staffed so that we can turn project reviews over quickly.

Go ahead sir. So I will note that because these positions were already listed as exempt during the process of creating the position, there is a union consultation period in place. So anytime a position is created that is exempt or even civil service, there's civilization is consultation with the unions. Thank you.

Okay, thank you Members, any other questions? Representative Dee Morikawa.

Sorry Chair. I used to work in human services for the county smaller level, but we were able to create positions at higher levels and they'd have the benefits.

Right now, don't you think that having the benefits would attract better candidates if you had the position classified higher and paid higher and you'd be able to keep them longer, don't you think?

No, that is a consideration and there is that trade off rate of having that protections being in civil service.

And I think what we're doing is responding to the market by profession and if the market tells us by profession tells us that it should be an exempt position because we need to be more dynamic in our pay rather than those kind of grievance protections that you would get in civil service, then we take, we go the exempt route, that's where I see it.

As far as the incentivization, certain professional classes altogether, they're just incentivized differently.

Thank you.

Okay, Any other questions? Seeing none, we are moving on. Next up we have HB12 relating to tort liability. First up we have Hawaii Association for Justice in opposition.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Evan Oy, on behalf of the Hawaii Association for Justice, we respectfully stand in strong opposition to HB12. Our primary concern is the overbroad immunity that this provides to landowners.

And you know, we're greatly concerned because 520 was never intended to provide this type of immunity for landowners who, you know, without a charge have people on their land. And this would pretty much eliminate any form of or any ability for a person injured to seek a claim under this instance. So we're extremely concerned with this measure.

Also another concern that we have in the language is assumption of risk section, which Hoya specifically abolished the assumption of risk defense and adopted a concept of comparative fault for determining the plaintiff's level of degree of responsibility in their injuries. So we respectfully say that the comparative fault standard should be upheld.

And then another point that we would like to mention is also HRS663 1,54A regulates the liability for recreational activities on private owners land. So you know, and that implements a negligence standard which should be upheld. And you know, ultimately HB12 is concerning because it would remove any plaintiff's ability to seek remedy for their injuries in these instances.

So we respectfully oppose the measure.

Thank you very much. Next up, we have various about 15 individuals in support of this Bill. Do we have anybody on Zoom? No. Seeing none. Is there anybody else wishing to testify? Sure. Please go up and state your name and position.

Aloha Chair Members Todd Yukutake. I support this Bill because for hiking, hunting and also firearms purposes because a lot of landowners are concerned about liability if a hiker or someone gets injured on their property and that prevents them from opening it up to the community. A lot of hikers want to.

Even now they may not even know it. But trespass on people's land and private owners don't want them on there. But this might allow those landowners to allow for things like that. I'm also a Member of Oahu Search and Rescue. We're a volunteer search and rescue team. It would possibly open up other training areas for us.

The more experience we get in different places doing searches or pelling things like that, the more places we're familiar with the better we can help the community with our job. Also, for hunting, especially like on Maui, they have the deer problem. Maui is mostly private lands and very few public hunting lands there.

And private landowners don't want hunters to come onto your property. You. Even if they're destroying their farms, destroying their land, they don't want them there because of the liability concerns. And I feel this would kind of ease their fears and let them allow hunters onto your lands and take care of the deer problem better. Finally, firearms.

We're short on firearms ranges in Hawaii. Could be for hunting. Zeroing rifles could be recreational use, teaching classes, things like that on private lands. And again, landowners don't want to open up their lands for those things because of liability concerns.

So I think this would help to ease their fears for all of these, and that's why I support HB12.

Thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify? Seeing none. Members, are there any questions? Seeing none. We're moving on. Next up is HB 29 relating to counties. First up, we have Department of Planning and Permitting. Dean, you want to go up on behalf of Dpp? Okay. Not here. Nope. Okay. Next we have Grassroots Institute of Hawaii.

Not here. In opposition. Next we have several individuals in support. Is anybody here wishing to testify? See? None. Is there anybody on zoom? Nope. Nobody on zoom. Any questions to. Nobody.

Seriously?

Okay. No.

I will ask a question and put it out into the universe.

Okay, well, go right ahead since the.

County is not here. Good morning, everybody.

Hi. You guys never see one Hawaiian before.

The question chair that I would ask of the county is that is this something that couldn't be proceeded with a. We're forcing a sale of a property so it's a takings. So if it's a nuisance, why don't they just go through the condemnation process?

I thought the same thing. Nobody's here to answer your question. Sorry.

Okay, moving on. Seem to have a lot of problems.

Next up, we have HB175 relating to property maintenance. First up, we have DLNR with comments.

Aloha. Mai Kakou, A chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Michael Walker. I serve as a statewide fire protection forester for DLNR Forestry and Wildlife.

The Department has submitted testimony with comments in regards to both sections of of the bill, including language specifying plants specifically on the noxious weed list or anything that has been prohibited by county, state or federal agencies.

And in regards to the fire section of the bill, the Department feels that this is more the purview of the county fire departments and the statewide Fire marshal available for any questions you may have. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, we have Kauai County Council in support. Right here. Next, we have Maui Chamber of Commerce with comments. And we have Hawaii Realtors with comments. Not here. We have two individuals in support. Anybody on Zoom? No. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB17? 5 seeing none. Members, are there any questions? Seeing none.

We're moving on. Next up, we have HB331 relating to permits. First up, we have DLNR with comments.

Hello, Chair, Vice Chair Ryan Kanakowole, Members of the Committee. Ryan Kanakowale, dlnr. We actually submitted two pieces of testimony, so I would say the Department supports with comments, dlnr. We support the Bill. It exempts state agencies from repetitive county permitting requirements for essential repairs and improvements.

However, we note that compliance with National Flood Insurance Program with the National Flood Insurance Program is critical to maintaining federal disaster relief eligibility. We're happy to address any questions. Mahalo.

Okay, next up, we have, uh, systems in support.

Good morning, chair, Members of the family. Morning. Jan Gouveia. On behalf of the University of Hawaii, we stand on our written testimony in support.

Okay, thank you very much. Next we have dlnr. Shipti, I think, is in support. Okay. Next we have DOE with comments.

Morning. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Dino Chida, Deputy Superintendent of Operations for DOE. We stand on our testimony in support with comments on the Bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, we have Hawaii School Facilities Authority in support.

Good morning. Ricky Fujitani with the School Facilities Authority. We support. We'll stand our comments and open for questions. Thank you.

You okay? Thank you very much. Next we have individual by D. Austin in support. Not here. Next we have Daniel Smith individual in support. That's all the. That's all the testimony we have. Anybody on zoom? Nobody on zoom. Okay. Is there anybody else wishing to testify? Okay. Board of Water Supply.

Thank you. Chair and Committee Members, Ernie Lau, Manager and Chief Engineer for the Honolulu Board of Water Supply. I just noticed this Bill and I'll submit written testimony, late testimony on it. But I would say at this point, until the definition of repetitive construction can be defined more clearly, we would stand in opposition of this Bill.

Off site infrastructure impacts could be significant depending on the nature of the renovation. And I would assume that when doing renovations you may have to do things like upgrade, maybe install a fire protection system or do some of the things that may increase impact on water system capacity.

We'd like the opportunity to do that evaluation for the project. If it's a simple repaint the school buildings, that's a different matter. But I think the definition of repetitive construction projects is unclear in this measure. So until we can get clarity, we would have to oppose this measure. Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify? Seeing none. Members, are there any questions? Representative Belatti, go ahead.

For University of Hawaii, I have the same kind of concern that Mr. Lau has raised from barter water supply because there's no definition of repetitive construction projects. But also in the section three where it says any contract for construction under the control of University of Hawaii, would this then maybe. I don't know how these two sections interact.

So would this then allow avoidance of county requirements for something like Mauna Kea?

Oh, no, I think this is specifically related to construction projects. So to the extent. If it involves active construction, then I guess it would. Then it would be impacted.

So this might be overly broad. Yeah. Thank you. Can I ask a follow up question? Same question to School Facilities Authority. Is this going to try to skirt the requirements for like the big project that's they're thinking coming out of Mililani?

No, it does not. What it does is there's inconsistencies in the county building codes right now, Oahu, Kauai, Maui are consistent, which basically Exempts state agencies from applying for permits. The can decide to apply. Hawaii county is the only one that doesn't have that kind of language.

So this what this does, it makes it consistent that state agencies are generally exempt from permits only if they request it. The practical course of it, 90% of. The time agencies apply for permits. But in the simple cases of re roofing break fix, a permit is not. Required except the Hawaii county code doesn't.

Comply with all the other counties.

Okay, and then so the language in Section 3 proposed in House Bill 331, isn't it overly broad because this is any contract for the construction? If you're talking about.

Yeah, that's broad. But the intent of the Bill is to align all the counties consistently where state agencies can exempt themselves from permits.

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Okay, thank you very much. Any other questions? Go ahead.

So as I understand your statement that the state already has exemptions in place except for Hawaii County. Okay I just wanted to confirm that. Can I ask a question to Ernie Lau? I understand your concern regarding repetitive maybe being too broad.

Would you be able to work together with the Committee to maybe tighten up what that definition might be to streamline the process? Because I can see the intent of this Bill being positive. Of course we don't want to open it up too broadly to have abuse.

So your concern is well taken as far as the definition of repetitive. And if we could tighten up that definition and the scope, the resulting scope of that, would that be a consideration for you?

Possibly. Representative, we can reach back to our DPP and other agencies from the border water supply's perspective because we are financially self sufficient. Our ratepayer is basically people paying their water bills pays for the operation and maintenance of our infrastructure serving our island.

If the state agencies that utilize this affect water capacity and actually don't pay for that because they're exempt, then that's a concern because that Trans is a transference of cost burden to our ratepayers, existing ratepayers.

So if part of the definition of repetitive that was tightened up addressed that water usage comparison from existing to new and if it was within an acceptable range.

Yeah. So maybe narrow it instead of really broad. And I would actually because I didn't wasn't involved in the development of this Bill, I would appreciate it for those agencies that are seeking this exemption reached out to me and explained to me what is the definition of repetitive construction.

Okay.

Okay, thank you. Thank you.

Any other questions?

Thank you, Chair.

Ernie, you can stay up there. I have one question so the Department of Education is proposing to define repetitive construction projects. It says limited for one to. Limited to one for one replacements and minor repair maintenance that do not increase the plumbing or electrical demand and do not require engagement in external agencies.

Are you guys okay with that? Would that be a better definition then?

That might be a better definition, but I know that the Bill doesn't only apply to the doe. It applies to the University of Hawaii, DLNR, other state agencies.

Okay. Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you. And again, my apologies to everybody, including the agencies that are trying to do this Bill, because I just noticed a spill on the agenda and I'd like to be able to provide our manao. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Okay, moving on. Next up we have HB3 relating to beach management on the North Shore of Oahu. First up, we have DLNR in support. Okay, good. Next up we have University of Hawaii Systems in support.

Aloha. Good morning, Chair, vice chairs, Members of the Committee. My name is Dolan Eversole. And on behalf of the University of Hawaii, we'll stand on our written testimony in support.

Okay, next up we have a late testimony by Denise Antolini, an individual in support. Not on zoom? Nope. Anybody else wishing to testify? Seeing none. Members, any questions? Seeing none. We are moving on. Next up we have HB309 relating to fish ponds. First up we have. What is this? zero, is this the correct one?

First up, we have Change Climate Change Mitigation Adoption Commission in support. Nope. Next we have DLNR in support. Michael Kane.

Thank you. We stand in strong support of this bill. We worked with KUA and the BUI in the past. I look forward to working with them again. We have made small recommendations and I will defer to the HUI to call them.

Okay, next up we have HAPPA in support. Nope. Next up, we have Green Party of Hawaii in support. And we have Historic Foundation Kristin Faulkner. I don't see her in support. Next we have KUA in support.

Aloha. Aloha Mai Kakou. I'm Olali Momi Fisher, advocate with Kua Ina, Ulua, Wamo or KUWA and we serve as a support organization for three large state networks. Our largest network is our Hue Malamaloko I A which is our Fish Pond Network dedicated to community based natural resource management.

We stand on our testimony and strong support and we just feel that this is a really important and reasonable request to get more awareness, education and resources to support local EA restoration, which everyone knows hold numerous benefits including cultural, spiritual, environmental and economic.

And really just to Getting more communities involved in stewarding and protecting and managing their own natural resources. We. We also strongly support and appreciate DLNR's suggested amendment. So we would really urge you to incorporate those into the language. And. Yeah, mahalo. Please pass this Bill. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. That is all the. Well, we have an additional 30 plus individuals and a couple organizations in support. Is there anybody else wishing to testify in person? Yes. Please go up, state your name and your position.

Aloha, my Coco. I'm Kimmer Horse and Big Horse Nahonu. I just want to encourage us to pass this bill. Mainly, I don't.

I mean, this is belligerently occupied, you know, islands here by the United States military and just need to allow the fish ponds, the taro patch, all the Ina, ocean and land, sea and air here to go back to the Hawaiian subjects, the kingdom subjects that are here, the Ali and I.

I approve this Bill because it's going to go back to the. Those. Those residents here. Mahalo. I do encourage that. Mahalo.

Okay, thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify? Seeing none. Members, are there any questions? Okay, Representative Shimizu, go ahead.

Thank you. Chair, I. I totally appreciate the intent of this Bill and agree with the importance of it. My question would be for you, since you seem to be, and I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name and I apologize for that.

If this Bill is not passed, what is in place right now that would accomplish the same thing? Or are we saying that what is the current situation they're unable to accomplish what this Bill is intending?

Yeah, I mean, I can't speak on behalf of dlnr, but just from what we've seen in discussions, there's a serious lack of resources and capacity, of course, within DLNR that is not, you know, unknown.

And so this would just infuse much needed resources to be able to create this inventory of fish ponds and really just bring that knowledge that Ike into the minds and hearts of everyone at DLNR and Hawaii as a whole. So, you know, if this isn't passed, then, you know, there's other routes through grants and things.

But we really feel that the state should be dedicating resources to this effort to fish ponds.

Thank you. Dillard, can you comment on that, please? I'm sorry, Chair, could I follow up with that? Yes.

Thank you. So, for some quick background, our office worked with Kua and the hui about 10 years ago on a streamlined fishing permit process that's been very successful. At the time, there was a study with a certain number of I think 390 fish ponds that had been documented.

We talked about referring to that and what we heard from the practitioners is that that list was incomplete. There are entire districts like in KAU that weren't on it. There are types of fish ponds that weren't included. Our knowledge has increased since that many of these ponds are on state submerged lands.

And that's why we recommend don't call them state owned because we're not, we don't want to claim ownership. So we need that inventory to know how to move forward. And we anticipate that there will be recommendations for future legislation coming out of this. I don't know what that is yet because we have to do the inventory first.

Thank you. Thank you for the explanation. Thank you. Chair.

Thank you very much. Members, any other questions? Seeing none, we are moving on. Next up we have HB3,306 relating to water coal. First up we have DLNR in support. Ryan.

Hello, Chair. Vice Chair. Members of the Committee, the Department of Land and Natural Resources stands on its testimony and support and providing comments. We're here to answer any questions.

Okay, thank you very much. Next up we have Board of Water Supply with comments.

Aloha. Chairmembers Ernie Lau, Board of Water Supply. We have concerns about this Bill actually going from 5,000, you know, $50 to $60,000 actually.

I fully understand the need for the Commission to have tools at their disposal to ensure that our water resources are protected, our VI is protected, and if there are abusers or people that are, you know, contaminating it, they should pay the price.

I also, you know, realized Too recently the EPA fined the US Navy $5,000 for not showing up at a meeting. Somewhat of a slap on the wrist, but it's very symbolic. So giving the Commission tools to be able to enforce the state water code, which is overseeing a public trust resource for all of us, is important.

So I understand that. I have problems with this Bill and it's expressed in our testimony.

I would like to actually suggest maybe considering the Committee Considering HB 1142, which I believe is that the governor's Bill part of the governance package as an alternative, I think that provides a roadmap for that is fines that remember these fines could also affect regular people, not just utilities like the Board of Water Supply, but just, you know, uncle and auntie with a farm or something.

And to go to such a large amount, I think is. It's hurtful. So I suggest HB 1142 as a consideration and ensure that the Commission also adopt administrative Rules for the Administration of the statute which allows for input and transparency in how these penalties would be utilized. Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much. Next up we have Department of. Water. Next up we have Hawaii alliance for Progressive Action HAPPA in support. Nobody here. Next we have. Okay, hold on. We have probably 50 other Members or individuals and departments that are testify and support. Is there anybody here in person wishing to testify?

Hi, my name is Moi of Pui Palokua. So I curious to understand how we can create a Bill that is going to be applied to the General public as well as commercial use as well. So everybody knows that the military can do whatever they want. So can the state, so can the city.

They can go and open up fire hydrants and just waste water. But like Ernie had said, you have people who have farms.

A lot of my family have farms and a lot of them are getting pressure from the state, whether it's in taxes, whether it's not feeding their animals, whether it's somebody coming saying that they own the land now and whatever the case may be.

And I think that when we start making bills like this and we're not focused on all of the things that can happen to people, everyday people, including yourselves.

If you have a leak at your house and you don't know it and border water supply sends you a Bill that's extremely high and next thing you find out, you do your due diligence, you find out that it's all the way underground in a pipe and, and guess what, you have to pay for it. Then what happens?

What happens to those people? What is going to happen to the people that live in Hawaii today that are dealing with inflation problems, food shortages, egg problems, Avian flu. I don't think anybody here has any capability to go research this aging board of water supply system.

The difficulties that are being faced to the people and not just Kanaka people in General. I see more Kauhali is being built than Hawaiians being able to traverse on their aina without being arrested. I've been arrested probably six times already by sheriffs and the Police Department. And congratulations, she's out. And I always get out.

My frustration is as a Kanaka, I have filed every paperwork to validate myself as one sovereign. My mokua ho has been done. I served your government, including your Governor, the speaker of the House, the current one. I'm sorry, no, you're not going to.

Cut me off with the lieutenant Governor.

And yet you have Kanaka sitting here. You have good people like Ernie sitting here telling you guys, hey, I Should make this suggestion. You only like, like when people talk nice. Yeah, you only like when people talk nice.

But when you have somebody like me, when you kill my grandfather, okay, when he dies in a rental and he has 39 acres of land in Kona, you're going to have a very angry granddaughter. And I'm not going to get angrier. I just can get more even.

So you're going to sit there and you're going to listen, because what I have to say is the truth. Even she was arrested. She was arrested by representing the nurses.

Can you stick to the merits of the water Bill?

Yeah, I am speaking to the merits. I think the merits are very valid that you guys are making a Bill from $50 to $60,000 and it's going to hurt the people that are sitting here and, and they don't even realize it. And you have all these people saying, I support, I support, I support, I support.

You know how they all support because they get paid. They get paid, uh, get paid by the state, the lnr get paid by the state. You get all these brothers all happy. Go lucky. Going. Yeah, we support, we support. zero, we talk to the who he talk. You can show every Hawaiian meme you like in the book.

The bottom line is you're not doing nothing for anybody but your damn paycheck and yourself. And I'm so grateful that we have people like her, like Kim, that is willing to stand up for nurses, to have a travel nurse come into this hospital built by our grandparents. Go, you can think it's funny.

I'll punch you in your choke. Can you do think that that is acceptable? And to think that making a Bill to make people pay $50 to $60,000, that's a problem. So, no, I don't support any of your guys bills because you guys don't think about the pros and cons.

We all went to high school and I graduated from a private school, mind you. Okay, when you look at these bills, can we do something? Can we look at the pros and the cons of who will be affected instead of coming in here in session going, I support, I support, I support.

Because you guys all collect one paycheck. Start thinking about the people you're hurting. Start thinking about the Kahalis that are being built. That's a problem. Having a Kahali built is a problem because they shouldn't be homeless to begin with when our royal patents sit on these tmks.

So when you consider this, if I see this pass, trust me, you're gonna See me again. No, I don't swear because pitchiness was damn language.

Thank you very much. Next, we are moving on. Anybody else wishing to testify? Members, are there any questions?

Thank you. Mr. Lau, I have a question for you. So the way this bill is currently drafted. Drafted, it says that the Commission shall. Determine the penalty amount. And you mentioned the auntie and uncle who may get penalized. I would also imagine that this bill. Is directed at some corporations who violate.

And waste water or break the law. And for some of these corporations that. Have maybe billions of dollars in assets. A $50 fee or a slap on. Their wrist is one thing.

But to be able to, for the Commission to have the room to, you know, try to give them a fine that's comparable to their the injury that they may be causing, and given the resources and assets that they have, that this range is to give those commissioners the room to affect compliance or quicker compliance.

You know, like I thought that's what. This was kind of about.

Yes, Representative, you know, I understand that. And vi is so important to have these tools. It is important to give the Commission the tools so that those that are regulated by the Commission, especially in water management areas, really make sure they comply.

But I guess I'm pointing out that to go to 60,000 right now, off the bat, it's a little harsh because it could be the big corporations, but it could be somebody small, a regular person that has a diversion of water or is diverting water from a stream or wants to drill a well, whereas pumping from a well.

But that's why I suggested, actually I thought the HP 1142, which is the administration's Bill, when I looked at that it provides a more progressive increase over time to a higher amount.

Also, I think it's very important that whatever these penalties are adopted or finally passed by the Legislature, that they be required to adopt administrative rules for the implementation of the statute. And that whole process would allow for more manao from the public into that process.

So it's also the concern is that the Commission could be arbitrary, somewhat arbitrary in their decisions and how they leverage the penalties. So developing administrative rules, I think would increase transparency and probably be more fair to those that are regulated. Thank you. Thank you.

I have a question. Chair, go ahead. Thank you. My question is for Ryan. Thank you. Ryan. I asked you this question off the record and I wanted to just put it on the record and then you can state your response for the record.

But in the bill it talks about the fines of the fine shall not be less than $50 and shall not exceed $60,000 per violation. The next sentence says each day that a violation exists or continues to exist shall constitute a separate offense. Then the language shifts and it says penalties for continuing violations.

So my question to you earlier off the record was, do you think this is a vagueness issue? Because you could technically wonder if a separate offense is a separate violation and therefore every day could constitute a different penalty essentially of that range between $50 and $60,000, which would be very duplicative as the days go on.

And so without clarifying that language in the bill, I think that there would be significant issues going forward. So what is your response to that? Thank you.

So I agree with the call out that the that phrase penalties for continuing violations shall be assessed from the earliest known date of the violation causes some confusion because it refers to continuing violations in opposition of what was previously stated in the stat, the proposed statute. Right. Each day is a new violation.

I think there needs to be clarification there because from what I'm looking at the entire statute, I believe the intent is each day $5 to $60,000 continuing violation, meaning if there was some kind of diversion of water and it's a multi day continue violation and say it's a week long, then that's 75 to $60,000 violations and we go back all the way to Monday or whenever it started the week before.

Yeah, but you're right, there is a, the potential violator is looking at a range. Now. They don't know essentially what the exact fine is, but I think that's where the discretion of the Commission comes in. Right.

They're looking at the totality of circumstances, the type of violation, and then they are able to, and the people that are involved, the violator, the potential violator, and they're trying to, you know, suss out justice that way.

Thank you so much. Yeah, My, my specific focus really was on the, the language that shifts from violation to offense. Right. So thank you so much for clarifying that. I appreciate it. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Representative Shimizu, go ahead.

Question for DLNR Just for my information, what, what is the maximum limit at this point?

It's $5,000 per violation.

5,000 is the maximum.

Per day. Per day.

Per day.

Yeah. And I want to point out, as Ernie said, you know, our Bill 1142, that we're proposing a maximum of 25,000 and then it ratchets up every few years, the maximum.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much.

Representative Bellotti, DNR so it's not in Your testimony, but would you support the adoption of the pulling in the language of 1142?

Yes.

Okay. And then just for kind of historical understanding, like say in the last year when fines have been applied, because. Right. There's the concern of it applying to smaller landowners versus midsize, maybe businesses and then larger corporations. Does DLNR have a running list of who they've assessed fines against and the amounts and the progressive nature?

If you've ever reached up to $5,000.

I'm going to have to refer to the institutional knowledge of the man to my left.

Okay.

Aloha, Representative Committee. Dino Stream Protection Management Branch Chief for the Commission on Water Resource Management. We should have a list. I'd have to pull it for you, but we can certainly get that to you. And sorry, what was the other question?

Is there a list? Because I think what we need to understand is the progressive nature of these fines.

And then even the Bill that's proposed in 1142, you know, there could probably still be tweaks to it to understand how it's being applied, because, you know, we do want to make sure that the worst offenders are going to be deterred.

But on the same hand, if it's a smaller family farm or it's an individual and they just don't know. Right. Maybe $50 is too low for an ongoing violation. Maybe it should be something like $100 or something in between. It's. It's this range between 55,25,000 and 60,000.

And how we tweak the law to allow the Commission to then have the ability to do that would be helpful.

So we do have an inter. Excuse me. We do have an internal policy document, a penalty policy that we do follow. It involves a mitigative and gravity component. So say violation occurs within a water management area versus a non water management area. We would calculate a higher fine in that case.

Also looking at the gravity of the situation, if it's a small diversion versus a larger diversion or pumps for groundwater. And then also as far as the mitigative component, we would look at the various circumstances. Again, like you mentioned, a small farmer versus some type of corporation. So in the past, we have done.

I think it was over half $1.0 million for, like, Kamehameha Schools where there was a continuing violation, and we've had as small as $100 just to someone that, say, didn't get a permit. So we do have those ranges. We haven't actually had many fines or violations over the last couple years.

I think largely because of COVID But I think prior to that. Yeah, we could certainly provide you with a list of over the last so many years.

Thank you, Chair. So I think for the Committee's information, the list of maybe just to give us like an understanding of what the range is. And then the internal policy document would be wonderful for us to understand. Then we can tweak the law around that.

Certainly.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Members, any other questions? Nope, seeing none. We're moving on. Next up we have HB5.05.

Excuse me. I wanted to testify on that Bill.

We're moving on to the next Bill.

Water Bill. The one we just talked about with the Illinois.

To water. Red Hill.

The water management.

Yeah, we're finished with testimony, so we're moving on. No, there was questions. Okay, go ahead.

Look, I don't understand why. I don't understand why we don't understand that this is a belligerently occupied kingdom of Hawaii here. Her last name is moi. Do you know what that means? Means, chief. It means Ali'I. So we gotta figure out, like, if you're gonna, like, Kamehameha schools, I guess is in violation, right?

Like they need their own separate. Like you need to deal with them differently. She has a royal patent. They have more right than anybody. They're hostages in their own country. So when we manage the water here, the state really has no power, right? According to international law, the United States is subordinate.

You're supposed to be carrying out the Kanaka Molly ways here, not. Not the United States way. Okay? So she. You come on her land or come in my school's land. You consult with the Kanaka Maoli. How they want to manage their land. If they're in violation, send a representative over there to. To. To deal with them. Like.

Like if I'm in Navajo, right? I go to the Grand Canyon. It's like federal property, right? Supposedly. No, I can go on there. Because we're equal. We're a sovereign nation. We have access to our sacred lands and water. I don't understand why we don't understand that.

And the disrespect that I keep hearing about the state, state, state, United States, the military, this and that. Give these people some respect. Give these people some acknowledgement instead of minimizing that her grandfather was killed by some DLNR officer from the state. You cannot answer these people with violence. It's against international law. It's a war crime.

You're belligerently occupying this aina. Belligerently. They are hostages in their own country. Just like the Palestinians just like any other Ukrainians or whoever else people, Vietnam, Philippines, whoever else, we go and we occupy their country. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Okay, moving on. Next up we have HB505 relating to Red Hill. First up we have BNF Budget and Finance with comments. Next we have University of Hawaii Systems in support. Next we have DLNR in support.

Hello. Orion Konakoli, Department of Land and Natural Resources. The Department strongly supports House Bill 505. We support the funding for the Red Hill VI and the establishment of the special Fund. We believe that that's critical to continuing the work of the virtual. We just want to note that last session we've created three positions to support this function.

We are currently actively recruiting for it. This additional what's added in this Bill is critical to continuing that work. So we're available for any questions. Mahalo.

Okay, thank you very much. Next up we have Board of Water Supply in support.

Aloha Ernie. Port of Water Supply stand in strong, strong support of this bill. I just want to mahalo DLNR for being willing to create those positions and take on this responsibility.

I've been working on the Red Hill issue for now 11 years and it's clear to me that within the regulatory framework it won't get us to where we want the Ina and the restored, the VI restored that we actually have to create a structure that will last beyond the regulatory framework and that structure is the Red Hill vai.

So I'm a hollow of I strongly support this Bill and I mahalo the community for standing on this on the issue of Red Hill.

Because if we would not have been at where we're at right now if it wasn't for the community as a pina to stand together to hold the military accountable for what they have done to our aina. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Next up we have Coalition Earth in support. Not here. Next we have Kalahui Hawaii in support. Okay. Yes.

Mahalo Chair Hashem who is also my representative for my district and one of mahalo this Committee for hearing this measure. I'm here to testify on behalf of Kalahui Hawaii.

We stand in strong support of HB 505 which is a critical piece of legislation addressing the urgent and long standing environmental crisis caused by the Red Hill bulk fuel storage facility. The contamination has affected the lives of thousands of Oahu residents and many of whom are my friends.

And I am also a water protector and we have fought long and hard to get the Red Hill facility to shut down. And I just want to just say that this is a necessary Bill to move forward. We do need insulated political office.

That would be the catch all for the remediation of Red Hill and for the ensuring that there's financial resources to clean up. It's going to take decades. I hope all of you read the VAY report. It has really good information in there.

According to the VI report there's almost 2 million gallons a few that has been spilled over the 80 year long period history of the Red Hill facility. So I urge Kalaui Hawaii, we urge this Committee to pass HB505 without delay.

Okay, thank you very much. Next up we have Sierra Club in support online. Nope, nobody's here. Next up we have Democratic Party of Hawaii in support. Next we have Hui Malama Pono Hawaii on zoom. Are they on? Not present. Okay, so is there.

We have probably 3040 other individuals and a few organizations in support of this measure. Is there anybody else on zoom. Nobody else on ZOOM Members. Are there anybody? Is there anybody else in the audience wishing to testify?

Please keep your comments to the Red Hill. Hola, Ikove. Water is life. All of us need water to live this life. As a former CRI Kanaka mole representative for Red Hill, coming up on almost four years since it was told to the public of their poisoning of our vi.

Now I wish DLNR did fines for the Navy like how they do for other people. Yeah, but we need the government to do more, to be harsher on them, to hold them accountable for their crimes. These are criminals. They're not just military occupying our Aina. What they're doing is poisoning us, walking away and thinking nothing of it.

And if we continue to let them do as they wish, they'll do it without any reparations, as we can see. Right? Nothing will ever happen. So I support HB505 completely. I know many of us do. We've walked these streets and I think we got to do it again just to wake up the people.

Because it's so silent that you guys may have forgotten that our water is poisoned due to the US military, due to the US Navy. There's still sediment sitting in those tanks. There's still procrastination every single time they don't show up to meetings.

I walked away from the CRA meeting because I'm not that Kanaka to sit down and just. Okay, okay, we wait. We wait. No, I'm a kuKanaka that'll want to fight them physically, but I can't do that. You know what I mean? Because we don't win those type of battles nowadays. We got to do it logically. Yeah.

We got to come together as a lohui with the community, whether if it Kanaka Moholy or not. You drink water, I drink water. I'm a mahi. I'm a farmer. We need the VI to ensure that our kalo, our ulu, our uala, everything that we produce is fruitful and abundant for the people. So please pass HB 505.

There's more meetings about this. We need to be here, make it more public. More public meetings, you know, neighborhood Board Meetings. Talk more about it. Because people are forgetting. Hola, Ikovai. Mahalo nui.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

Aloha Mai Kakou. I am an affected family Member of Red Hill. Almost 10 years. Me and my Ohana has living.

Can you state your name and your position?

I'm so sorry. Davey Ann Momilani Thomas. Born and raised from Oahu. But I am an affected family Member. We are a Navy retired family but we have lived in Pearl City peninsula Navy housing 10 years. I am one of the whistleblowers, the main whistleblower to let it be known that we are affected.

I just want you all to know that I support this Bill because me and my family and many affected family Members that are still living on the Navy interconnected plumbing pipes, we are still living off of bottled waters. I do not trust our island water flowing through their NAVFAC plumbing pipes.

And I hardly hear anything from the Navy and I don't trust their word. And I'm thankful for what border water supply, our Oahu water protectors like Heolani and our Kia protectors are all doing for us. So please support this Bill. Mahalo.

Thank you. Good test. Anybody else wishing to testify? Board of Water supply for the zero go ahead.

So I support HB 505 with comments. One of my comments. Can you stick? You already know who I am. Okay. One of my comments should be that part of the economic support on the bill should come from the Navy because the Navy is the one who did it and that's who should be supporting the cleanup.

And in addition to that, I don't know if the General public knows this or remembers, but they have all been charged by the Board of Water supply to pay for portions of the cleanup. So all of the people in Hawaii should also get refunds from this particular Fund.

So some of these things where it says gifts, donations and grants from public agencies will be included in that. I think that the gifts that donations and the grants from public agencies should be in a separate Fund and should go to the people that are affected directly and that would be the people that are from here.

If you're military and you're affected, then the military should go to the military and ask the military for appropriations. And I don't mean to separate us. I just think that the military already gets free housing. They already get cheap food. They already have discounts it everywhere. I'm trying to get a discount. I don't have a discount.

So I think that in relation to how we're going to appropriate the funds that should be adjusted inside your Bill and it should go to families like herself and myself. Beautiful, huh? I was in Capilina Beach Homes. I am also affected by Red Hill.

And what was so upsetting is that the only person that knew that everybody was affected was Ernie. Ernie Lau is the only one who cared enough to make a statement that people were getting poisoned. And that's the only reason why the military is up Schitt's creek.

So one that should be addressed because the delay of being told that you're being poisoned. And according to your Bill, because I like to read, okay, it says here that the tanks was there from what, 1940 to 43. So I think the appropriate answer should be we should back charge them from 1943 until the spill, which was.

What was that? 2023. That's a long time. And I think the appropriate rule of law, because we have some lawyers in here, three times the reparation when you commit fraud against somebody. So from 43 to 2003, calculate that I'm really good at monopoly money. Minimum.

What I would require is I think you guys owe me, minimum, $1.2 billion a year because you guys sit on all of my Ina and you utilize these capitals to make rules about what you guys going to do with our land and our money. That's kind of weird.

What's even weirder is that you guys just accept it and think that Kanaka are dumb. We're not dumb. So 1,000,940 gallons of fuel November 202021 or not 20232021. And that's what I think is important. We should be looking at these bills and putting in correct policy.

And one of those correct policies is returning money to the people of Hawaii who have been paying the Bill for the Navy. We should also be charging the Navy appropriate fees. And appropriate fees is not $5,000 to miss a meeting. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Members. Anybody else wishing to testify? Border Water Supply Once again.

Mahalo. Ernie Lau, Board of Water Supply. I neglected to acknowledge the leadership because this started with the signing of a joint kind of a proclamation from the Governor all the way to the mayor, to the City Council, to our state Legislature, our leaders here, the efforts on Red Hill, the progress we've made.

And I think the effort to sustain that progress going forward into the future requires all of us to stand as one community with one voice. So I just want to mahalo Vice Speaker Ichiyama for her leadership in leading the Red Hill VI discussions and meetings over many months and actually coming up with the Red Hill Valley Report.

So I just want to also acknowledge because this is a holo community effort to hold the military accountable to restore aina. Our congressional delegation is also important part. And I mahalo them for their leadership and continued support on this issue. Mahalo.

Okay, thank you very much. Members. Are there any questions? Representative Shimizu, go ahead.

I have a question. For you, Ernie. I was contacted by a constituent with a concern that the access to military monitoring test sites is important and should be included in the bill. And I wanted your comment on that.

You know, I think the access issue we've been kind of requesting over a number of years to get access to be able to take samples. There has been some progress, but then, you know, things I think are right now kind of at a standstill.

Access to the monitor wells that they've installed to be able to take water samples and do independent testing. And I think this all follows under the category of third party independent objective testing. Analysis of the groundwater to determine the nature and extent of the contamination spread from the Red Hill tanks to wherever to Halawa or Moanalua Valley.

Third party independent testing I think is important going forward. Ensuring that the data being collected is done in a fashion that is. Is going to produce reliable results. Because we don't want to be 10 years, 20 years down the road and find out after the fact that this is like garbage data.

Because somehow the methods weren't done correctly or consistently. And now we cannot rely on this historical data. So ensuring that that is done correctly. And I think the regulators, EPA and Department of Health have a very important role in ensuring that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Okay, Members. Representative Belatti, please.

I just have a couple of questions. In your testimony, it says that there's been funded three positions already.

Yes.

And then it says that currently interviewing for all three positions. What's the status of those?

So we actually have interviews scheduled, I believe this week for the administrative support specialist. So these positions were all created. They're funded last session. Funding was released around the fall. We went through the reorganization process, had to go through Deherd, consult with the unions in creating the positions themselves.

And so we had the green light around November, December time. And that's when we could go open recruitment. The recruitment is still open and it's continuous. We're not closing it only because, you know, people get interested and then they get closed out while we just lose out on potential applicants.

So we're taking them as they come and interviewing them as they come in. So we want to prioritize the administrative support specialists hiring first only because that's critical to creating like that the process and procedure behind the back house, behind everything that the function is going to do. We'd hope to hire by this quarter.

And then the specialists, we want to get a little bit more time in because these are professionals and we want to get the right person that hopefully next quarter.

And then in the absence of these positions, is there any persons being tasked with advancing the Y initiative?

There is no specific position. So it's basically the chair's office's initiative shared between Chair Chang, myself. Okay.

So basically any of the work that came out of the Y initiative has just stalled out at this point.

I mean we're. Chichang is participating in the Yi. My job is basically HR and the reorg process which we've completed and then also the hiring. So stall out. I mean we're trying to get the capacity on board. So I feel like that is progress in itself.

Okay, so the Water alliance initiative is continuing to meet. Yeah. Okay. Just a few more follow ups. So Sierra Club in their testimony suggested this remediation authority and I think this is a carryover from last year's. What is your thoughts on that? Because I think as this policy coordinator sits within. Solely within dlnr. Right.

Some of the challenges that happened and I take responsibility of this when I was and kind of overseeing health, the lack of community involvement was actually one of the causes that that led to some of the. I think the lack of oversight.

So what is DLNR's positions on Sierra Club's notion that there be a public board that the Y Policy Coordinator answers to?

I haven't reviewed their testimony specifically, but I kind of understand the concept. Right. It's. It's more of your. You're trying to create another board or Commission of stakeholders to oversee the work. And well, quite frankly, I think from an administrative standpoint, we work well with our partners.

Right now as far as the oversight goes, I think that I'm not for or against it. I would defer to the Legislature in terms of how you feel is the best management tool.

The issues that you have with these kind of boards though is decision making and action is usually start and stop by when you can get quorum, when you can get Sunshine Law compliance. So it will slow down action. It will also, I guess the benefit is having that group of experts on the panel to weigh in.

So that's the trade off. I would think looking if we were to create a border Commission, it would slow down activity. But also at the same time it would be sometimes it's wiser to go a little slower and it's an avenue.

For public input as well. Yes. One last question, Chair. So much of the focus on this is the creation of a special Fund that we hope will see ceding by Federal Government. So has there been any conversations or is that even your authority?

Is that something that's within the authority of the Department of Health to give us a status update of any kind of conversations with the military about compensation for the harm caused.

I can't speak for the Department of Health in terms of like that status.

So it is the Department of Health that's overseeing those conversations with the military?

No, I believe that there are representatives of the VI itself that are negotiating with the military. Negotiating. But in conversations. And the VI itself has. We have representatives, whether it be. And I'm not part of the vi. Right. That's like Chair Chang. She is a point person in negotiations with the.

You know who the Members of the VI are. Can you provide that to the Committee?

I. You 're better. You know the role better than me. Chair Chang is on it. Representative Ichiyama, Department of Health was participating.

In the beginning, but they withdrew.

Ernie, can you go up to the mic? So people watching in here.

So I'm going to do this from memory. So the Governor had a representative. I think Luke Myers was part of the regular meetings. University of Hawaii had a representative representing the President, the chair of the City Council, the mayor's office, the Legislature, both the Senate and House were representative on the VI Committee.

Department of Health started with the. Was involved in earlier discussions but then withdrew from the discussions. And you can ask them for their reasons. Think they had in their mind good reasons for that. But. So there was really involvement, including the Board of Water Supply.

Both the chairperson and myself and my deputy were heavily involved in the discussions.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much. Members, any other questions? Seeing none. We are moving on.

Nope.

Hold on.

Can you. Can you guys. Can you guys not hog the. The microphone? Give me my three minutes. Thanks.

So next, I'll. I'll let you go. But next time when we ask is there anybody wishing to testify, please come.

You ignored me. I'm sorry. I didn't see you. Okay, go ahead.

I did.

I don't care. I don't care. All right. We live in, in a drought. Yeah, we're in a drought or in a drought right now. All of the islands are. The west sides are like red. So the water issue is. Is very urgent and I don't understand how and. And not just here like Mauna Kea too, right?

The aquifers. All the aquifers are. Are. Are. Are threatened by the cycle, right? The overthrow, the military occupation here. The violence. Met with violence just to protect the water, just to protect sacred space. The military doing that. HPD doing that. Just arresting people for. With violence. It's Got to stop, right? It's got to stop.

There's not going to be any more Oahu. It's going to dry up. It's going to burn like Los Angeles and Lahaina. This isn't a joke like we got to get the military out of here. They're here to protect capitalism, tourism, all the people that are greedy and looking at what they can take.

All the foreigners, all the Asians and all the whoever else countries that aren't from here and born and raised here. Okay, so that's my little spiel. This has to be taken very seriously. And we're going to be met with, with generals and opposition and whoever else.

All these people that want the military here for the military industrial complex.

All right, this has to end. Thank you very much. Okay, anybody else wishing to testify? Seeing none, we're moving on.

I'll just make a notation that if you look on DLNR's website and you look at the position that all the qualifications in order to work for the vi, you must be a graduate of an accredited college. That's great. Bachelor's degree in Hydrology, Ecology, Environmental Chemistry, Soil Science, Conservation Biology. Environmental Engineering, Geochemistry, Environmental Services, Natural Sciences.

I just want to make a note that majority of the people that are going to be qualified this for this position is going to be haole. I just wanted to let you know my brother is a commander. No, no, no.

There's a good point for this.

There's a good point to this, is that Hawaiians are going to keep getting represented by people that are not from here. And I want to keep making this notation that he cannot fill the position because majority of the Kanaka that have these qualifications are already filling those positions.

So what we should put here for DLNR is they should just find somebody that is from here that can qualify to speak in an initiative, which is what it is.

Okay, we're gonna slam the gavel.

I don't give.

Okay, gevel, gaveling back in out of recess. We're back on HB, or we're moving on to HB305 relating to RAN restoration. First up, we have Department of. We have Department of DLNR. Luke? No, I thought it said. Okay.

Hello. Ryan Kanaka'ole, Department of Land and Natural Resources. You know, we, we provided opposition testimony here. We appreciate the desire to create the trust. It is a model. We appreciate that. That is, It's. That's one way of handling this cache of lands. Right? It's creating a new paradigm for a specific set of land. That's one way.

However, you know, we oppose it because right now in the process, the lease renewal process, we're in the very beginning. And it. And it involves multiple levels of significant public consultation at a number of levels. There's the AEIS process, which we're going through with just one of the branches.

You know, right now there is one in process with another branch. That's just one step. Then there's the Conservation district use permits that have to go through. Then there's the incidental take license. Then there's the habitat conservation plans.

These are all steps where the public are going to be involved and shape the way that we manage the lands moving forward. At this time, we would recommend that that process play out.

At this time, we don't even know which lands will be returned, which lands are actually marked for retention that the Department wants because they're so early on in their information gathering, community engagement. And so we just want that current process played out before we start automatically envisioning.

And it's not as if the uses that are proposed here are. We support those uses, but it's the part that kind of. You're taking a bunch of land that we don't know really like which lands we're talking about, and then automatically putting it into a certain use without any BLNR. Any expert review.

And that's why we oppose it right now at this time.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Next we have Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party in support. Next we have Ka Lahui Hawaii in support. Did I pronounce it correct?

Ka Lahui Hawaii.

Yes. Thank you. Okay, I'm going to read my full testimony. Okay. So Ka Lahui Hawaii is a Kanaka Maoli initiative for self determination and self governance formed in 1987. We fully support House Bill 305.

Ka Lahui Hawaii

100% of the lands that the US military currently leases from the State of Hawaii are ceded lands or Hawaiian Kingdom lands taken without the consent and compensation of Hawaii's Indigenous People US Public Law 103150. These military leases covering approximately 30,000 acres, are set to begin expiring in August 2029.

The US military leases these lands on the islands of Oahu, Kauai, Maui, and Hawaii from the quote unquote State of Hawaii.

In 2024, the US army conducted a series of public hearings on their draft Environmental Impact Statement regarding the retention of 6,322 acres of state lands at Makua Military Reservation, Kahuku Training Area, and Kawailoa-Poamoho Training Area, as well as the 23,000 acres at Pohakuloa Training Area.

These draft EIS documents identified these lands as habitats for endangered and threatened species and outline scenarios for partial retention. For instance, one scenario for Oahu proposed by the US military retaining only 162 acres in Makoa Valley while relinquishing KTA and Kawailoa Poamoho Training Area altogether.

Similarly, the PTA draft EIS suggested retaining only 10,100 acres of the 23,000 acres currently leased. Regardless of one stance on the military lease issue, there must be a mechanism in place to receive, rehabilitate, and remediate lands that may not be retained by the US Military.

Remediation is particularly critical as it is well known that the US Military seldom returns lands in a usable condition. The remediation must be funded by the US Military. The US Military forcibly removed inhabitants from areas such as Makua starting in the 1920s, beginning with the Ohana of Kahueai LCA 9052.

By 1942, the remaining inhabitants of Makua were also removed with reports of families being forcibly removed at gunpoint. To this day, descendants lament their inability to return to their traditional lands and visit the graves of their family members.

To address this injustice, it is vital that the first right of return, once leases expire or if partial retention occurs, is granted to the Kuleana landowners. Similar to the process established for Kaho‘olawe, military lands returned upon the expiration of state leases in 2029 should be held in trust until they are transferred to a sovereign Kanaka Maoli entity.

Ka Lahui Hawaii strongly supports the precedent set by Revised Hawaii Revised Statute 6K9 for Kaho'olawe and advocates for its extension to any lands returned by expiring US Military leases. We respectfully and strongly urge this Committee to pass HB305 with gratitude. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Next up we have we have probably 70, 80 people in support of this Bill. I'm just going to go through the people that registered to testify. Do we have, what. Let me just go through the room. Is there anybody else wishing to testify in this room? Okay, go ahead. You can go up. Uncle.

Go up first. Please state your name and if you're in support or opposition.

And Representative Hashem, I want to point out we do have some kupuna online that are waiting to testify as well from Hawaii Island. Mahalo.

Yes. We'll go through the people that are here first and then we'll go to the people that are online. So please keep your comments to the, to the Bill about returning lands to, to the state and the leases and summarize. Please summarize your testimony. So go ahead.

My name is Liko Martin. I born and raised on Oahu, and I in support of this measure because I see it as an avenue for us to become a beneficiary, true beneficiary of the federal constitution, which we are very limited under the current definition of us as Native Hawaiian.

Because these activities have passed, the activities that will now occur are still a violation of our neutrality.

For our lahui, neutrality, maintaining our neutrality is our most important, is one of our key issues going forward, because maintaining that neutrality affects what, how the State of Hawaii will engage to incorporate us into issues that will endanger our resources and will endanger us physically as a lahui, as a total group, not just a part of the whole, but in our entirety, and also not enhance the international perspective to stabilize militarism and expansion of militarism, especially in the Pacific.

Now with the relationship between the State of Hawaii and Indonesia, which I see as a great threat to our Timua Nui, Okiwa, which are the families and nations of the Pacific who have first people to come here.

And I speak with respect for them, on behalf of them and all of our mutual kinship, linguistic and bioregional alliances that exist now. Going forward, for our lahui, as you can see, it's an exciting time, to say the least.

I think that for sure, internationally we will be pursuing venues which will actually situate the State of Hawaii being a provisional government which was imposed by the Congress, the Congress having no treaty of annexation, having no boundaries, it's very clear they could not sign off on something and pass something.

The issue here is the trust and whether there is. Has been a breach, to what degree that breach is existing. And these are things that. That's why I'm in support of this, that we will eventually end up back to home plate as an independent Hawaii being restored as an independent nation state. Neutrality is our guide.

That is our position in the world. And I think that it's time for this body of which I've seen this whole building coming from a boxing arena to what it is today that you will take account of this, of what I'm speaking about, and respect to all the Ohana here and everything. Okay, Mahalo.

Thank you. Next. Anybody else wishing to testify? Go ahead. You can go up. Please state your name and your position.

I'm Her Royal Highness Shoshana Ariel Kaʻakaualaninui Wilcox. I'm part of the royal family of Hawaii, and I am here in support of my lahui and my people and everything that was said as far as for Bill 505. And I am in support of this Bill as a Member of the royal family. And that's all I have to say today. Mahalo Nui.

Thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify? Okay, we're. zero, go ahead.

Aloha. My name is Laulani Teale, and I'm with the Ho'opae Pono Peace Project. Today, I'm speaking as an individual, and I'd just like to say that I'm in strong support of this measure. I do want to emphasize it is a compromise, to be very clear, the concept of Aloha ʻĀina land trust.

It's something that ideally we would create as a lahui, which would not be appointed by the Governor, etc. But under the current. We're all working together in the current system that we're faced with, that we have here and with what tools we can do and what you can do. This is something you can do.

This is something we can do. If we don't do something together, then we have to do these things apart. I think that everyone knows that the benefit to our future collective generations will be better served by returning these lands to indigenous hands for restoration for everyone,

than would be served by returning these lands to the United States military, who has been abusing them consistently since those things began. So I ask you to please join in support of this measure.

And I think in this room, we've heard so many different voices because we are in a very difficult and diverse situation right now.

As Kupona Liko Martin said, in a state where there's a whole question of the legality of all that we're doing, and yet we need to carry forward, and we need to carry forward in a way that puts the future generations first, and all of those future generations will benefit from this measure. So mahalo.

Thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify? Go Ahead.

First off, my apologies for that pilikia. We shouldn't be doing that. But since now I know Uncle Liko that used to be a boxing ring and I promote fights. Maybe that's why. But first off, I want to see if we can strike line 8 word provided. For far too long, Kanaka 'Ōiwi

language, values, culture, traditions must be at the forefront. Native Hawaiian means more than Kanaka 'Ōiwi experiences, understanding and perspective, which therefore puts us Kanaka 'Ōiwi below everyone else. That must be changed. Who are these Native Hawaiian orgs? Because not all of them are real Kanaka 'Ōiwi driven. Add to community purpose to be Kanaka 'Ōiwi community purpose with native Hawaiian support.

Those words, community purpose is too broad. Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono. The life of the land is perpetuating righteousness. The US military has not done anything to perpetrate our lands in righteousness. They've been a problem not only here in Hawaii, but throughout the world. It's time for a change.

We're coming up on four years of planning to remove them. If the government won't do it, there's Kanaka like myself that will. You know, they're talking about deporting right now. They should be deporting them off of our homelands. That's the main people should be deported.

You know, the audacity of them to think that they can actually renew leases or continue doing what they're doing. After destroying Kaho‘olawe, continuous bombing of Pohakuloa, Makua, poisoning our water of Kapukaki Red Hill. Enough is enough. It's time for a change.

And I believe that our representatives that represent the people of Hawaii that voted you guys into office will listen to the people this time around. Please do what's right. We need more better people involved. As for the people of Hawaii, especially for those of this Aina, without Aina, we don't have life.

Without us Hawaiians, there is no Hawaii.

Hi.

So please understand that I'm mahalo for you guys time. I support HB 305 all the way through. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify, go ahead.

No go. That's your third time. Go, girl. Oh, we don't care, girl. Hawaiians go whenever Hawaiians like.

I love Hawaii. I love the Hawaiian people. I'm 100% pure Chinese, but I love the Hawaiian people. Actually, Chinese culture and Hawaiian have a similar word. Jesus. It's Yeshua. It's the same in Hawaiian as it is in Chinese. Gong Xi Fa Cai. We both love dragons. So I'm Angela Melody Young from Rory Cares in strong support.

I'm not a member of the royal family, but I love Hawaiian people and I support appropriations of funds for generations to come. Hoʻihoʻi i ka ʻaina. Restore the land.

Return these lands for the purposes of restoring and healing the Hawaiian community from generational trauma and abuse and cycles of hurt perpetuated by colonialism and the dominance of the Western culture.

May we return these lands to perpetuate the indigenous on Hawaiian culture, to restore and respect the oceans and the ecosystems and the mountains and also all the people. Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify?

Aloha. Water and Land Committee Chair. Vice Chair. My name is Ekeni Lindsey, and in support of House Bill 305. As the elected representatives of this Committee, it is crucial that we the citizens unite in support of Bill 305, which offers us transformative opportunity to restore the land impacted by military and return it to collective ownership.

By working together, we can harness our diverse expertise to revitalize acres of land, fostering thriving communities that benefit us all. Especially to the host culture of the land, the Kanaka Maoli, which historically confiscated land ownership, which is the driving force behind our gathering.

For today, I envision a future where spiritual intervention informs the reproposing of thousands of acres of land seized by the military, aligning them with our already engaged values to promote sustainable agricultural farmers, educational immersion schools, indigenous practices, endemic health centers, incorporating native medicinal medicine and safeguarding our precious water sources from future contamination.

House Bill 305 marks a crucial step towards empowering a network of resilient entities to thrive on these land, cultivating a resilient and vibrant community that flourishes amidst global uncertainty. With this support, we can build a healthy Hawaii. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Next, anybody else wishing to testify by.

Hello, it's again, I support the measure with comments. So you see all the Hawaiians over here? Every single one of them are Ali'I. How I know is because you can do their mo'oku'auhau and you will find the Wapiko, a chief, Telepiko Ali'i.

And with that being said, the one thing I am so proud to see is Uncle Liko still standing. Today, Uncle Liko Martin has been fighting for Kanaka rights with my own uncles. Who is Uncle Levi Kalaui Kaawa. Uncle Levi Kalaui Kaawa was the security for Linda Lingo. Yeah, you never know that. Well, and he passed with cancer.

And today, as a representative of the Kalaui Kaawa family, I will continue to fight the same way my uncle did. The same way my uncle and Joculus did. So when you Talk about Aresa Makua. That was him. Six court cases. You took my family's lands unnamed on Joculus Kalaui Kaawa, Levi Kalaui Kaawa, John Mack Kalauli.

My family, Kaehulua Stream belongs to my family. So does Waiahole and Waiakani. So when I fight, I fight hard. Nakua Valley, I fight hard 5556. 1 and 2. So I support things because it goes back to a Kanaka. And I just want you share with all of you.

We have a Hawaii State archives for a reason. You should all start reading it. We had five citizenships. We were inclusive, meaning not just Hawaiians. It was non Hawaiians as well. If you were born in Hawaii, you were also a citizen of the kingdom. I was raised by Japanese. That's why ruthless.

And for your information, my family owned Associated Steel. Yeah, she not the only one over here. Get big family, own big things. Brian Yasuda is my father.

Can you stick to the merits of the Bill, please?

Oh, I am sticking to the point. The point is you don't know much about me besides just being one ruthless crazy Kanaka. I know one ruthless crazy Kanaka. I want educated ruthless crazy Kanaka who happened to have one rich family that will build all your construction on this pae ʻaina.

And I can tell you for a fact that you can drill in Waikiki at the international marketplace and crack the Iolani pool. Because my daddy was the safety officer. We built the rail stage 1 and 2 and Awapuhi was running all over the cranes. Those are all my uncles.

So what I do is I act crazy because you guys send me the worst lawyers to fight at court and I win every case. So the next time you see Anne Lopez, tell her come to court on February 5th. I would love to take her out.

Thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify, please stick to the merits of the Bill.

Of course I'm in support of this Bill. My name is Kimmer Horsen and Na Honu Horse and Big horse. Because 1. The main thing is that the native Hawaiian youth suicide epidemic is the demographic that I am most concerned with. That they're killing themselves. It's a reflection of this military occupation of violence and destruction. Man-made wars.

Man made landfills, cesspools, condos, wave pools, telescopes, Uxos, artillery ranges, golf courses. Contaminated fuel tanks pollute the water aquifers, the ocean, the resources, the land, the air. Kanaka maoli suffer houselessness, substance abuse, displacement, work, three jobs, domestic violence, there's poverty, incarceration, child abuse, forced assimilation. Sex trafficking in the military is responsible zero, sorry.

Is responsible for much of this domestic violence. And the endemic species to Hawaii face absolute extinction. You know, we're in a drought and we're unable to. And they want more. We just went to. What was it? We went. I've been to so many of these meetings. I've been. I've been fighting for this aina since 2008. Yeah.

And I come to these meetings and it was so disappointing. Yeah. The DLNR. Right. Come talk to you guys. The board, all these board, these state affiliated, you know, boards. And the Royal Order of Kamehameha is still getting locked up and sent away in paddy wagons. Yeah. That has to stop.

And we just have to stop this violence. It's ridiculous. The last thing I want to say is. Yes, so essentially the sex trafficking, that the wahine are missing and murdered because of the military that's here. It is not good. They're destroying the aina. They killed like George Helm. They killed George Helm. I believe the Navy did.

And it just has to stop. This has been going on. They need to get out of here. And that's what a lot of the Hawaiians want, because this is their kingdom. So just wanted to say that. And if the one. If the military is going to stay here, which I think they will with nuclear.

Their nuclear power, then the Hawaiians should be allowed on the bases. They should be allowed in the oceans, allowed in the air, allowed to their sacred wahi panas and have IDs or access at minimum. But we're not asking for that. We're asking for the military to get out of here. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Anybody else wishing to testify?

I want to. Aloha mai kakou Davian Momilani Thomas. Again, I just want to say, since I have been a Navy wife for 17 and a half years, that is when I woke up to realize the real history of what happened to Hawaii. But I remember two years prior to becoming a Navy wife, my excursion was at.

Outside of Makua Valley at. I think it was Ka'ala Farms in Nanakuli, I think it was. And I heard all these explosives going on. And that's when I first learned, even though I was born and raised, as to being patriotic to our military and to America.

That's when I first learned and realized what the army was doing to the sacred Makua. I didn't understand that at that time, but I had a lot of homeboys and homegirls in the army stationed on Schofield who was trying to wake up my sleeping brain, even though I was schooled at Catholic schools.

And they were trying to tell me in 1990s that they were against what they were doing to Kahuku, to Pohakuloa, to Makua Valley. And I didn't understand that until I became a Navy wife and we moved seven years to Japan. And that's when I saw the dark side of the military on Japan.

And I even stood against Governor Linda Lingo requesting for more military and against Gene Ward coming to our Yokosuka Navy Base, 7th Fleet Japan in summer 2007. I was the mistress of ceremony and that was my first time becoming an advocate, an advocate for Oahu because they wanted to bring more military here.

And I seen the dark side of what the military can do and how they don't respect the peaceful people of Japan, their host nation, who were trying to warn us about what the military was doing, ruining their soil, their drinking water on Yokosuka Navy Base when they were about to build a huge nuclear facility before the USS George Washington came.

Anyway. So I had to state my point with that and especially with me. I have been the overseer for several years for Pearl City Peninsula Navy Housing. I was a coordinator for their neighborhood watch and for the Red Hill. We're a Hawaii military community and we live. My house is built over Navy's toxic landfill.

So it's not like we are just exposed to the Red Hill. I came here to just speak for our people and for my born and raised home island Oahu. I know that DLNR basically said they opposed this. I don't know why, but it's sad. I mean I am the only one that supports.

I mean that is two worlds are born and raised home island. Of course being Hawaiian by ancestry and then being a part of the Hawaii military community for a very long time. I have seen the destruction. I have seen what they can do to the lands.

I have seen so many unused lands on military housings and on many other lands that they $1 lease. So please, we need our state officials to get it together and start, just start doing something. I mean, I woke up. It's your folks. Time to wake up. Please. Thank you.

Thank you, thank you. Anybody else wishing to testify? Did you testify on this yet? We have, we have a lot of other people waiting and people on Zoom waiting to testify also. Anybody else wishing to testify? Yes, go ahead.

Aloha. My name is Barbara Altemus. I'm here to testify as an individual and family therapist and for Bill 305, I'm here to testify as an individual and family therapist concerned with the mental emotional, physical and spiritual health of people. I'm a published author with Penguin, addressing how to heal and transform pain.

The first thing one has to recognize is that they are in pain and be willing to honestly look at the root cause of the pain. Living in a culture that values the sacredness of life and focuses on taking care of all living beings, not destroying them, is where healing begins.

In a culture that bombs and desecrates the very source of life, the earth and all of its inhabitants. This is an unhealthy, toxic culture. Not even a cockroach destroys its environment.

As the US Military extracts from Mother Earth to create bombs that kill everything they target, they are destroying the source of life that sustains all living beings today and for generations to come.

There's a major disconnect to one source of life, to one source of life, and a lack of understanding that there is a way as human beings that we can find to cooperate with one another and have a mutual goal, to be caretakers, not destroyers of life. The people who are doing the destruction are in pain.

They are disconnected from who they are and why they are here. As human beings, they perpetuate pain on everyone they come into contact with, as does an abuser in a home.

The people whose land is stolen, culture attacked, language forbidden, and often forced into subjugation using racism and all the isms that come with this way of life suffer tremendous pain and hardship.

Living in Hawaii for almost 40 years, it is clear that the Kanaka are in great pain as their culture of inclusivity, cooperation, caring for the Aina and one another, and sharing their beautiful culture and hearts with so many who are not from these islands are suffering great loss emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually.

So many are houseless, hungry, struggling to make ends meet, and the list goes on and on. This was not the case for Kanaka before the illegal US occupation and militarization of these islands. The military has destroyed Kaho‘olawe and contaminated and is destroying Kahakuloa, Makua and all the places they test their bombs.

What is happening in these islands is a moral and international crime. And the healing begins when people are allowed to reconnect with their Aina, have their land back. Enough harm has been done. Your land leases are up. The only right thing to do is clean up your mess, pay reparations for the damage you have caused and leave.

You will begin your own healing in doing so and give the opportunity for the beautiful, original people of these islands to heal and to thrive once again. And that's directed towards the military in Particular. And anybody else that goes along with that, thank you very much.

Anybody else wishing to testify, go ahead.

Hello, everyone. My name is Isis Esborn. I am in support of this Bill. I'm here in my individual capacity. I'm also a law stud student at Richardson. So I just wanted to highlight a couple of, like, questions and concerns I had when looking at this.

My first thing was something that has already been mentioned in terms of this just gives state money, and there's no mention of encouraging looking for the US Military to actually pay for the harm that it's done. There's also no express mandate for BLNR and other potential state actors not to enter into new leases with the US Military.

There's nothing, at least that I saw even urging BLNR to not enter into new leases so that this new law could be seen as sort of the Legislature's implied support for that. But there's no express language stating that. So that kind of concerned me.

There's also, I know that there's concerns about eminent domain and the Federal Government, the federal U.S. government using that to just take the lands. But as we have seen, this Administration just does whatever it wants anyway.

And it also doesn't negate the fact that the state constitution of Hawaii mandates that every agency, agent, employee of the state have to protect and preserve Hawaii's land and other resources in perpetuity, particularly with these kinds of crown lands, because of the illegal overthrow that happened.

And I was happy to see the language in this Bill expressly mandating that these lands should eventually be returned to the sovereign nation of Hawaii. I would like to just finish by saying this is a solid step in the right direction.

But of course, as you all know, and as everybody in this room knows, more has to be done and more will be done. Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much. Next. Anybody else in person wishing to testify? Yes, go ahead.

Good morning. Good morning, Chair. Good morning, Vice Chair, Committee. My name is Hartley Adriana Kohanna, and I am testifying as an individual.

It was of great surprise to me that a lease agreement had been formed of Hawaiian lands by the US military for a lease amount of $1 per year, the duration of 65 years, now nearing an end.

This is all while over 50% of Hawaiians have experienced an out migration due to their own inability to pay their rent as the US Military, which is one of our biggest funds of taxpayer dollars, has a grossly disproportionate advantage in this agreement without room for compromise when it comes to the needs of our residents.

Such as a site for a landfill that will not impede on the health of our residents as well as lack of accountability for the effects it has had on our environment and community. Living here.

We are grateful to the dedication and sacrifice of our service Members, while also acknowledge that the US Military has exhibited gross misuse and lack of understanding when it comes to how to treat the land.

The easeful return of these lands to Hawaiian hands by the means of the Aloha Aina Trust Land Trust will restore balance to Hawaii's people who understand what it is to live in reciprocity with community and relationship to the land.

In the words of Peter Garrett. For those of you who know Peter Garrett from INXS, it's a very famous Australian song. The time has come to save fair is fair to pay the rent to pay our share the time has come A fact's a fact. It belongs to them. Let's give it back.

Thank you.

Anyone else here wanting to testify? Go ahead. Uncle. My apologies, Uncle. If you can summarize what you were going to say, I. I realize that you. You did speak on this subject earlier. We still have kupuna online.

Okay. I'd be happy to come back.

Okay.

After. If they. And let them speak. And I have one issue that I think is really important. Unless it's gonna be okay, it'll it. I think it would be. I think it'd be better if I came back because it's a little more detailed and law abidingly issues.

We're going to turn it over to folks on Zoom. Anyone on Zoom wanting to testify on 505. Susan, is that her name? Please state your. Thank you. Please state your name, Auntie, and your position on the Bill. Can you hear me? Can you hear me, Auntie?

I can't hear you. Are you talking to me?

Yeah, I couldn't hear you. Kalamaya, you can say your name and your position on the measure and then you can.

All right. Okay. Aloha, everybody, and mahalo. My name is Maxine Kahaulilio. I'm a kupuna. I reside on the Big Island. Not the Big Island, Kalamai, Hawai'i. I live in Wainea and I'm glad to be here. I wish I was there so you can actually see me. And I hope you guys can see me now.

But let me just tell you and introduce you. In 1977, I was arrested on Kahoolawe with Liko Matin. We were One of the 14 that got arrested on supposedly federal land, which is our land, and we got arrested. I think. I hope Liko is over there. You know, we were young, vivacious, and lots of guts.

And in 19 and 2019, I got arrested again prior to all the other arrests in the state capitol in Abda Mauna. Again, protecting our land, our water, again. We keep fighting and fighting.

I want you guys to understand before you guys ever make a Bill relating to anything that pertains to us, Kanaka, you need to call us to sit with you guys before you make that Bill. Don't assume that you guys know everything because you guys don't. You really don't. From 1893, the military has done Hiva from 1893.

And they keep doing it and they keep doing it and they keep doing it. And in 196850,000 of our Kanaka boys, who lives on Oahu, Kauai, Hawaii, went to Vietnam to get killed because of the military. And why? zero, they going to protect us. They're going to protect you, Koko. Don't worry. They're going to protect you.

If China brings the missile, you don't need worry. But that's not right. That is such a lie. And 433,000 acres in Pohakuloa to be destroyed for 23,000. That belongs to the state. Whatever. Nobody owns the land. Nobody. You don't own it. I don't own it. Heleni don't own it. God does.

And I'm telling you, if we don't stop DLNR from giving out the listes, you're not going to be living on this island. Pretty soon it's going to be invaded by all the millionaires who's buying all the land. Believe me. Please think about it. Now, you guys, you are representing land which you guys don't own. God owns it.

You are caretakers of the land. You represent water. The source. The source. Now, even like Barbara said, even the cockroach no make anything. Even the cockroach no drink water. De maque. Even the scorpion. And you know what? I tell you guys, I'm 86 years old.

I've been through so many, so many things that the military, the Governor, the politicians have done to our Hawaiian people. It's ridiculous. Ridiculous. It's heava. Now listen, you guys, please listen.

Can you please sum up your testimony? No. We have many other people behind you. You know why?

You know why? The problem is the military, you know, would have all these people testifying if they were out of our.

So no cash.

Support that Bill. Get them out. Because I'm going to tell you right now, you guys never see enough. What's going to happen if you guys pass and help us with this Bill. Don't let the LNR give any more extension to our leases.

You're going to see more people from 2019 when they came to the Mauna to protect and help us kupunas in the front gate of Pohakuloa. And you know what? I'll be the first one there.

Thank you very much.

All right. You got no laugh now, you don't. You gotta support these damn pills. That's why you guys did I bullet for some of you. Damn it. Come on.

Thank you very much. Next on Zoom.

Okay, enough is enough. Get the freaking military out of here. Tell them go home, bomb someplace else and leave us alone. Give us back the land. And you know what?

Hey auntie, we gotta move on. We have other people behind you.

But you know what? One more. Stop hurting our. They're bombing our EVs. Okay? I'm telling you right now. I seen it.

Thank you. Next. Next up on Zoom, we have. We have Cindy on Zoom.

My name is Cynthia Freitas. I'm a native Hawaiian descendant prior of the native inhabitants of Hawaii prior to 1778. Raised, born and raised in Hawaii. I'm also a practitioner who still practiced the culture traditional customary practice that was instilled in me by my grandparents at a young age.

From mountain to sea, makai to mauka mahalo for the opportunity to testify in strong support of this lands.

This initiative represents a critical steps in ensuring the responsible stewardship of the land transfer by the United States to the rightful holder which you need to go back to the Great Mahele, pull that royal patent out land Use Commission and you will find the descendants like me and other native Hawaiian that owns those land that military had forcefully took the family off.

Hawaii lands are more than just physical space. There are the foundation of the culture, identity and the future. Unfortunately, lands used for military purposes often require rehabilitation due to the contamination, the degrade and other impacts.

Establishing the Great Mahele descendants from that origin which is the origin of the land and move it forward and you will find your descendants, the original people of the land who are the stewardship of that land. Please be proactive when you do. This is called a title search.

This trust can serve as a model of Malama Aina guiding principles in Hawaiian culture that emphasize the responsibility to care for and live in harmony with the land. By incorporating community voices, traditional practices and sustainable land management can ensure these lands are restored for cultural, environmental and economic benefit.

Furthermore, appropriating funds to support the creation and operation of this land to the central investments it ensured to restore back the land with all the impacts that the military has done. I urge the community to approve this measure and demonstrate a commitment to preserve Hawaii naturally and the culture heritage. And I must make a point here.

We, the indigenous people had learned from many kupunas and the kupunas before us. We are a graduate of of traditional cultural practices. We do not need a BA or a chalkbox style to teach us in the UH University how to do our job.

We come from a linear line of practitioner who mastered this way before UH Was here.

Cindy, can you sum up your testimony?

Colonizations was here. Our land was fruitful. Please give it back to the culture practitioners and the people who are the stewardship of that land to bring it back. Thank you. Have a good day. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Next we have Susan on Zoom.

Yes. Let me start my video. Yes. Susan Gorman Chang. I am a community member and Aloha Committee Chair and Members, thank you. Mahalo for taking my testimony. Before I go forward, I would just like to make a comment about what the representative from the DNLR said a little while ago.

He said that it's too early in the process to do something like this and they need expert reviews, etc. Etc. And I just want to say that that procedure represents the status quo of control of the process and does not give Kanaka Maoli agency in land that is and always was theirs.

We, we can't keep going with the status quo. It's. It's not working and it's not right. So in contrast, I strongly support HB305 because it answers the question proactively, what's going to happen to this land that is no longer going to be under military lease?

And HB 305, you know, sets up a structure for doing that where it goes back to owners of an inheritable interest in Kuleana land, if applicable, or to the trust and again, which should eventually go back to the nation of Hawaii. And it also talks about remediation of the, of the AINA as needed.

And you know, we can't undo the unjust, the injustice of these military leases for a dollar that went on for so many, so many decades. We can't undo that.

We're at a point in the present where we're able to stipulate fairly and justly how any military leases that will not be secured by the military again will be returned to applicable families and to a trust. For Kanaka Maoli. And Again, I support HB 305 because it provides the structure under which this can be achieved.

This is the time to do it. It is a time to be proactive so a decision isn't made that isn't just and right for Kanaka. Maui, thank you for taking my testimony.

Okay, thank you very much. Okay, that's all the people that we have on Zoom. Anybody else that did not testify or is interested in testifying, can we move on to questions? I'll call you up. Okay, we're going to shut off the testimony and I'm going to ask questions. Okay. Got it. So we're moving on to the.

No more testimonies. We're moving on to the question phase. Wait, no, wait. Okay, thank you. Can you come up, please? Okay, we're going up. We're moving on the questions phase now. Right. So, Liko, what do you have to say? Is my question to you.

Okay, what do I have to say? I would like to address the process. What is it? The top of the issue right now as an example. Department of Land and Natural Resources. I'll take you back to a time when I was 10 years old. In 1955, my grandfather sat on the Board of Supervisors. Okay.

In 1955, was created the Revised Laws of Hawaii, 1955, Volume 1, Chapter 14, which is entitled Certain Rights of the People. There are 1414 subsections to this. Okay.

And the purpose of this was, this is 1955, in anticipation of what was going to occur in 1959 when the United States would very craftily avoid the process of decolonization as Hawaii was listed under the United nations Charter, Chapter 11, Declaration on Non Self Governing Territories, was removed from that oversight.

And in that removal, what really technically occurred was the same thing that occurred in January 171893 where a military force of which we are unable to protect ourselves against was imposed by way of an act of Congress. I'd like to read. And this is.

I really kind of challenge you on this because this is about process and we really need to put the paperwork and all the foundations of law with respect to Hawaiian law set by Hawaiian judicial precedent upheld internationally.

And I think the preface for this challenge to you is the current ruling by the International Court of Justice with respect to the occupation of Gaza and what has occurred to the Palestinians by the imposed State of Israel.

I think I would behoove you all to become technically and fully aware of that recent ruling which will allow Hawaii's situation to come to the forefront of international arena. Okay? Because exactly what has occurred in Gaza has occurred in Hawaii. Welcome. Sometimes I say, you know, people say, where am I?

I said, well, you can either be in Nazi Germany or you can be in South Africa, but apartheid is alive here. And I'm going to explain to you how this occurs. Okay? I want to give us something to work with that we can chew on, that we can brush our teeth with.

Can you. Okay, can you sum it up? Because.

Revised laws of Hawaii, 1955. In the eighth section of it, it says powers and duties. We're talking about the certification of the local government by the chief governing authority under United States Co Title 16 Conservation Part A Historic Preservation programs. And I did challenge the acting Chairman of the DLNR and I asked her this question last year.

Are you a state historic preservation officer under that code? She very proudly said yes. Then I said, where is your Historic Preservation Review Commission? Because if you do not have a historic Preservation Review Commission under federal constitution of which this state sits in, then you are not properly certified. Where does the certification come from?

It comes from the chief governing authority. And that is in quotes. And that for us as our lawyer, is where we're going to go. I've already been to Washington, went there in November, filed a request.

We need to move on.

Well, it's important for me to finish because we don't want to have a thousand people outside here. We can easily get them when this is almost done here. Okay.

Is to request for us to assume the responsibilities of the state historic preservation officer so that we can ensure without any question, not just the crown lands, but every square foot of the Hawaiian Islands has to come under subject to Hawaiian law. And that is the issue.

That is the statute that is still on Kauai is the only one that was faithful to that. Maybe it's because Danny Roy was there and had to account for something, but that Kauai Historic Preservation Commission has the real authority of the Commission because in Chapter eight it says any law to the contrary notwithstanding.

Do you know what that means, us lawmakers? Do you know where that phrase comes from? It comes from the United States Constitution. And that's who is looking over our shoulder looking at this process. We need to move on.

And I will move on now and I will move forward to you, this Committee, to bring that issue and bring that matter and those documents to the table. Don't be caught with your.

Don't be caught short because already the oversight is being asked for. Thank you. Members, we have time for probably one question. I have a quick question because we're going to have to go into decision making and whatnot, and we got to go to session right after that. So I will.

No, you get to go because you didn't ask any questions today. Right. So you get to go. Thank you for noticing. Chair. Okay, thank you.

This question is for the Deputy Director of DLNR. You mentioned in your statement in opposition to this Bill that it removes that DLNR won't have an opportunity to review to, to review the process of moving it into the, the, into the Aloha Ina Trust.

When you currently determine whether to extend a lease, renew a lease, give a new lease, don't you? What are the three words or three kind of guiding principles that you look at when determining to make that determination, especially when there are two different people wanting that same piece of land?

Well, I can't speak for the board, you know, the board Members, however, their. I don't know how to do it in three words. But it's fiduciary duty, right? That's two words you align with the public trust fiduciary duty that you have to the land.

Okay, so let me just clarify. On your website it says that we'll promote the social, environmental and economic well being of the whole of Hawaii's people. Right? Not the federal people, not the people of the United States, but of Hawaii. So it says again, social, environmental and economic.

And so that's part of the fiduciary duty that we're trying to align with the trust purpose.

Yeah. Right. So my point being is that even if you did review it, and if you looked at those three words, you know, to comply with your fiduciary duty, it would seem like you would arrive at putting it into the Aloha Ina trust rather than reissuing a lease.

So I'm not saying that we're here to reissue a lease. What I'm trying to do, and it's a difficult position that I sat in because I'm Native Hawaiian, I hear the room, I know that something needs to be done and people want something new. But I'm trying to defend what one testifier called the status quo.

Because that process, these lands have never run through it before. And that process was an iterative process that was developed over generations of time.

And there was intent for these reviews to occur, whether it be implementation of the Environmental Species, Endangered Species Act, implementation of conservation district laws, whatever land use controls that we have in place, those have gone through a progression over decades. And that's what I want to see. That's what the Department wants to see these lands go through.

Because that's never been done before. That's all.

Thank you very much. We are going to, we are going to recess for decision making.

Okay. Sorry, guys.

Okay, gabbling back in on our waterland agenda here. First up, we have HB 1144. Chair's recommendation is to go through the, is to pass this out with a defective date. I'm going to put in the Committee report for this goes to the Department, this goes to the Committee on Labor next.

So it's probably better for them to address this issue Regarding the labor issue of they should look into going through the process of repricing the positions and reclassifying. So I'm going to stick that into the Committee report and I'm going to defect the date to 713000. Is there any concerns or questions?

Just a quick comment. Chair, thank you for that recommendation.

Okay. It's going in the Committee report so they to look at it. Okay, that's fine. Thank you very much. Okay. Vice Chair for the vote.

Members, we are now voting on HB 1144. Recommendation of the Chair is to pass with amendments.

[Roll call]