Senate Standing Committee on Housing

Good afternoon. It's 01:00PM on Thursday, 04/16/2026. This is the committee on housing. This meeting is being streamed live on YouTube. In the unlikely event that we have to end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business tomorrow, Friday, April 17 at 01:01PM in Room 224, and a public notice will be posted on the legislature's website.

We have a one minute per testifier time limit. If there are temporary technical glitches during your term to testify via Zoom, we may have to move on to the next person due to time constraints. We appreciate your understanding and remind you that the committee has your written testimony. This meeting, will start out with a 01:00 agenda. Members have a separate 01:30PM agenda that's joint with the Committee on Energy and intergovernmental affairs.

K. And welcome to vice chair Hashimoto and committee members Elefante and Rhodes. Our first measure today is GM six eighty one submitting for consideration and confirmation to the board of directors of HHFDC, Garth Yamanaka, for a term to expire 06/30/2030. First testifier is HHFD in support.

Afternoon, chair, vice chair, members, Dean Minikami, HHFDC, with customer testimony support.

Thank you. We also have DBEDT in support. Mayor County of Hawaii in support, Japanese Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Hawaii in support, Hawaii Island Chamber of Commerce in support, Kohala Chamber of Commerce in support, Flynn Restaurants LLC in support, Fukunaga Electrical in support, and Hawaii Island Community Development Corp in support. We also have a number of other individuals all in support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on governor's message six eighty one?

Okay. Do we have the nominee? Would you like to make a statement to the committee?

Aloha, chair, vice chair, members of the housing committee. Name is Garth Yamanaka, Big Island Of Hawaii. Just really appreciate the opportunity to be here in front of you. Look forward to, serving on this committee, or on this, on the HHFDC, and I'm here for any questions anyone might have.

Thank you very much. Members, do we have any questions for the nominee?

Yes. The only question I have, mister Yamanaka, thank you for your willingness to serve is, is this your first time on HHFDC, or is this a reappointment?

No. This is my first time.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. And then as a follow-up to that, being that this is your first time, do you have a position on open space requirements and park dedication?

Do I have a position on open space or park dedication? You know, in regards to housing for Hawaii, you know, I think all product types are something that need to be considered, and the feasibility to for these projects is what I wanna support. And and for me, if there are projects that will incorporate those type of open space, public parks, and it allows us to build the most units possible, then for sure, I wanna look at everything.

Thank you. Thank you, chair.

Thank you. Any further questions, members? If not, chair some questions. Mister Yamanaka, in your opinion, should the QAP include greater priority for perpetual affordability, state and county owned projects, and projects required to use any profit to build more housing?

And, you know, I I just wanna reiterate that I I think the more tools we have to provide housing for the people of Hawaii, I I believe that that has to be available. And I think we need to like I said, we need to look at everything. So I I would support as much tools as possible that allow us to go out there and and get the housing built.

Should HHFDC be devoting more resources to revenue neutral income blind housing rather than deeply subsidized housing to maximize housing production statewide?

You know, it's it's another I hate to say the same thing, but it's revenue revenue neutral, I think, has its place. I I think working with developers also has its place because we we have such a shortage of housing right now. And I think if we limit what options we have, it just it won't obtain its goal.

There's so many variables that go into housing being as expensive as it is, and I think we need everyone to come together, and we need all the ideas out there. And I think we need all options on the table to to get this done.

So just to follow-up on that, the HHFDC right now does very little, if any, revenue neutral housing. So if you want to expand the options, you would support expanding to include more revenue neutral housing rather than simply focusing on low income housing.

Yeah. You know, low income I I understand that certain programs are are resulting in lower income housing being built, and we need more housing across the spectrum. We need low income. We need middle. We need high, you know, and so I would support more programs in order to get the the housing built.

Should f d should HHFDC produce a plan to build 100,000 housing units identifying parcels and the number of units at each parcel and the resources needed to execute such a plan?

You know, that that's a lot of units, and I think there's a lot of variables that will, come into play for something like that. So if if we can get everyone on the same page and creating a plan helps to get everyone on the same page to create as much units as possible, I would support a plan like that. Yeah.

K. Members, do we have any further questions? Thank you very much. Yeah. Appreciate it.

We'll move on to our next agenda item, GM 764, submitting for consideration and confirmation to the Board of Directors of HHFDC, Susan Kunz, for a term to expire June 30th, 2030. HHFDC, in support.

HHFDC stands on its testimony in support.

Thank you. HPHA, in support.

HPHA stands on its testimony in strong support.

Thank you. DBEDT, in support, County of Hawaii Mayor's Office, in support, Big Island Housing Foundation, in support, Hawaii Island Chamber of Commerce, in support, Hamakua Health Center, in support, and a number of other individuals in support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on Governor's Message 764? Okay. If not, members, do we have any questions? Or, actually, would you-- would the nominee like to come up and make a statement to the committee?

Good afternoon, Chair, and Vice Chair, and members of the committee. Thank you so much for this opportunity to come before you today regarding the governor's nomination to the Board of Directors for the Hawaii Housing Finance and Development Corporation. I'm very honored for this nomination, and I really look forward to working with the other board members, the staff, and all of you moving forward. I'm here to answer any questions that you might have.

Thank you. Members, do you have any questions for the nominee? Senator Elefante?

Thank you, and thank you for your willingness to serve. The only question I have for you is, do you have a position as it relates to maybe active leases that the state owns, that potentially that HHFDC in your capacity, if confirmed, could look at and look at developing or owning or leasing out rental units on maybe some expiring state leases?

I think that's a great opportunity. You know, I worked for many years in Hawaii County having the same position and the same considerations. Government lands is prime, especially if it's sitting there not being used. I think we should look at that opportunity absolutely. You know, when we think about public-private partnership, I think that's the perfect way to contribute to that partnership by providing the state lands.

Okay. Thank you, Ms. Kunz. Thank you, Chair.

You're welcome.

Thank you. Any further questions, members? Okay. Well then, Chair has some questions. Should the QAP include greater priority for perpetual affordability, state and county-owned projects, and projects required to use any profit to build more housing?

You know, my understanding is that it does that now, to a certain degree. It makes perfect sense that we would be prioritizing state and government properties for affordable housing.

You know, the only thing--and we had chatted about this earlier--that I would be concerned about and wanting to include in the conversation as we're making these kinds of decisions is, the need for housing is so great, and I don't believe, or I can't see at this point that the government can do all of this on its own. And I feel that there's still a place and a need to engage the private sector somehow.

So while we might be prioritizing government public funds to those kinds of entities, I think that we have to give thought to how to continue to engage other partners--private, nonprofit. But I'm very open to looking at all of these concepts with the staff at HHFDC. We have to figure out a way how to get more units.

So if you don't support greater priority for these categories than what's already there, can you justify to the committee why hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars per unit would be devoted to building temporarily affordable housing projects?

So there is caution in that. You know, we're talking about prioritizing public funds for perpetually affordable projects, right? Is that what you're talking about?

Well, specifically, yes, but also other projects like same county projects and projects required to use any profit to build more housing that are at low risk of expiring affordability.

So, you know, I-- again, when I worked for a nonprofit managing affordable properties, that was always the greatest fear was managing a perpetually affordable project, which we did, and the only time that I saw or felt comfort in the ability to maintain those units like that was with other types of government subsidies on those units. Otherwise, it was a huge, huge struggle to put enough money away in the reserves to maintain and preserve those units.

So there was always this conversation about what happens at 30 years, 40 years, 50 years to try and maintain units like that and maybe needing some more help from the government. So I just think there's a balance that has to be thought about when you're moving in a direction like that. There has to be a balance.

I think we all understand the need for government resources to go into rehabilitation of aging affordable housing--

--but I don't see what that has to do with-- why does housing need to be temporarily affordable in order for that to happen? Why would the tenants be put at risk of losing their homes and potentially becoming homeless? Yeah. Because-- just because there's an arbitrary date on which the project becomes unaffordable?

Yes.

Well, you're trying to protect against making-- having tenants be kicked out of housing because affordability has ended. Correct?

Yes.

And if there isn't flexibility in the programs that are funding the projects, you are potentially gonna put them at risk anyway if units are not able to be maintained properly. So I just think that there has to be some thought to that balance.

So to be clear, I think that HHFDC has the wrong balance. You once served on the board of HPHA, which is an organization that manages a large portfolio of perpetually affordable housing. And even though we all can acknowledge that HPHA's maintenance needs are great, they would never throw out a bunch of--

--their tenants.

That's correct.

But their financing structure for their perpetually affordable units are different because they have subsidies on those units, I think. So the projects that I saw that were able to manage preservation and maintenance also had HUD funding, project-based vouchers on those units. So they were perpetual, but there were-- there was other assistance on the projects.

And I just-- Senator, I'm not opposing what you're saying at all. I think that we have to consider the direction that you're proposing here or what you're asking me about. I'm just saying that on a case by case, you would really need to work with the property owners, the managers to make sure that they have a budget and a means to perpetually maintain those units. That's all I'm saying.

Okay. So let me just make it very simple, right? Should the QAP include greater priority for perpetual affordability? Yes or no?

I think my-- I think that we could definitely give priority to those types of projects.

Greater priority, Ms. Kunz?

I would want to see a way to also give priority if, say for example, the project is a state project coming in that's perpetual. You would give the most points to something like that.

Greater than the QAP currently gives?

Potentially. But what if a project is coming in that is more shovel-ready than the state project? Wouldn't we want to create some type of opportunity for projects like that? So that's-- and I don't think I have enough information or been touching all of these programs that HHFDC has long enough to be able to dig into this conversation today, but generally, I'm in support of that because I understand the concept behind it. I just think that there are other considerations that we would be really remiss if we didn't consider.

You know, you're perhaps the most experienced HHFDC board member nominee that I've seen in my time as the Housing Chair, and there might be other individuals who are-- you know, have no experience with housing, have no experience with subsidized housing, have no experience with public housing, government housing. And I guess I would understand that perspective, but I'm not asking you whether these should be the only criteria.

If a private project that's very shovel-ready wants to get hundreds of thousands of state taxpayer dollars per unit, they can simply check the box that says, perpetually affordable. I don't understand what the problem is.

Well, so if the--

Why can't-- why can't they just check that box as over half of the current awardees are currently doing?

That is true.

So is that a yes?

Yes.

Thank you. Should HHFDC be devoting more resources to revenue-neutral, income-blind housing rather than deeply subsidized housing to maximize housing production statewide?

So if projects are revenue-neutral, they are serving a higher AMI?

Yes. Income-blind.

I think that there is a need for housing that is in the higher AMI. I-- you know, working for the county and the grants that I administered, we focused on low and moderate-income, which means up to 80% AMI, but I saw a lot of need for workforce housing, for example. So here again, you know, I think we need to look at the data and look at where-- the communities that we're trying to serve and see what the AMIs are in the area.

I think that's our responsibility to dig into what that market need is for communities. I fear that if you just do a blanket, a policy like that, you might be excluding those lower, which is probably the highest need.

You know? And there's a need for up to 180% AMI as well. So there-- I don't think you can do a blanket policy like that. And I-- you know, I cannot sit here before you today and make you a promise that I'm gonna do something that's straight across the board like that without considering these things. My experience has taught me that I have to collaborate with my community. I have to go into the communities and see what the need is there. I've always operated that way.

Ms. Kunz, I'm not asking you for a blanket policy, and I'll repeat the question in case it was misunderstood. Should HHFDC be devoting more resources to revenue-neutral, income-blind housing rather than deeply subsidized housing to maximize housing production statement?

Perhaps it could. Yes.

Is that a yes?

Yes.

Should HHFDC produce a plan to build 100,000 housing units, identifying parcels and the number of units at each parcel and the resources needed to execute that plan?

Yes, absolutely. HHFDC has a three-year plan that they've put together. I've gone through it. It has really good structure to it and a lot of great initiatives. I think that the board could focus on maybe a few more specific policies or project to come back, even to groups like-- you know, to the Senate to say, these are the number of units we think we might be able to do with certain initiatives, but I think it's necessary.

Thank you. Members, do we have any other questions? Okay. If not, do we need to go into recess? Do we have our vote sheets? Oh, sorry. We have one more resolution on the agenda today. Thank you.

Okay? Okay.

HCR 83, supporting the use of the dwelling unit revolving fund to fund predevelopment costs for any government affordable housing development project through interim loans to expedite the delivery of affordable housing to Hawaii's residents. Our first testifier is HHFDC in support.

And your testimony is okay.

OPSD in support.

OPSD stands for its testimony.

Is there anyone else wishing to testify on HCR 83? Members do have any questions for the test?

Question for mister Minakami, please, chair. Hi, mister Minakami. In the event that so these are for pre development loans.

Is that correct?

So in the event that the developer applicant defaults on the loan, does HHFDC have a recourse action to recuperate funds in the predevelopment phase?

Typically, the loan will be secured by the land, and this is why we typically have used DURF for predevelopment loans only for our own lands because we conduct our own due diligence to ensure that, you know, the property can be developed. So in this case, let's say there was a city project and they're applying for predevelopment loans. Those have a relatively higher risk because the funds might be used for due diligence studies, and there might be something found that makes the property inappropriate for development.

There might be historic remains. There might be contamination.

So in if that were the case, then our recourse would be to take the land as collateral. But so we would be judicious in awarding predevelopment notes to ensure that, you know, there are no obvious constraints to development.

K. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

And while I have you, I have a follow-up question. Are there any circumstances in which you would forgive the loan without, you know, repossessing the collateral?

I can't think of any instance where we would forgive the loan. I mean, we would have the land as collateral, which, again, may not be of high value to us because we couldn't develop it if there's a constraint preventing its development. But I can't see us forgiving the loan.

Thank you. Further questions, members? Okay. If not, thank you very much. Should we go straight into decision making?

Okay. So we'll go straight into decision making on our three agenda items today. Our first is GM six eighty one for Garth Yamanaka to be confirmed to the board of directors of HHFDC. You know, church just wants to observe that I think I think some of our nominees may have the impression that the more words they offer, the better. I am of the opposite opinion.

I really usually only want as simple an answer as possible. And I totally respect and understand if there are fundamental disagreements over these questions. And if that's the case, then it is every member of this committee's and every member of the Senate's job to vote their conscience based on the issues that are that are discussed. But I I think, you know, I've over the last two days, I've seen, nominees trying to have things both ways.

And I on behalf of my constituents who have seen the housing situation, not just not not just not get better, but indeed get worse over the last decade of my service in the state senate.

I am not comfortable with supporting nominees who want to maintain the status quo. And, I am always open to hearing suggestions for new and innovative ways to change things. But I if the status quo is what we're going to get, then I will not support that. And that's why I've been so clear about what changes I want to see made to the status quo.

So in the future, for future reference, I think it would be helpful if nominees to these important boards managing, in some cases, over a billion dollars of taxpayer money to understand clearly that the demand from the demand is is for change and for new ways of doing things and not simply continuation of the status quo.

Alright. So members will chair's recommendation for governor's message six eighty one will be to advise and consent. Any discussion? Questions? Okay.

Chair votes aye.

Members, GM six eighty one chairs recognitions to advise and consent. Chair votes aye, vice chair votes aye. Senator Ilefante. Aye. Senator Rhodes.

Aye. Senator Fevella is excused. Chair recognitions adopted.

Thank you. GM 764 for Susan Coons for confirmation to HHFDC. Again, chair's recommendation is to advise and consent.

Alright. I have some comments.

Oh, yeah. Sure.

So so thank you, chair. I think I think, you know, you had a great conversation with miss Coons. I think I was the housing chair when miss Coons was the director of housing on the Big Island, and I think we had a really good working relationship. I think you're right. I think she is going to be one of the most knowledgeable members of HHFDC.

I think she brings a wealth of experience. And I I think, you know, miss Coons has always been one to be open about trying to try new things. I think out of the housing director, she's always was one of the more innovative ones. I I think there's a lot of promise for us to steer HHFDC in the right direction. I think she has some really good ideas.

I'm very proud to, support her nomination. So thank you, chair.

Thank you. Further discussion? K. If not, again, for GM 764, chair's recommendation is to advise and consent, chair votes aye.

Members, GM 764 chair's recommendation is to advise and consent, consent. Chair, chair votes aye. And members with reservations or no's. With all eyes, voting aye. Recommendation is adopted.

No excuse of Senator Fevella.

Thank you. HCR 83, supporting the use of the dwelling unit revolving fund to fund pre development costs for any government affordable housing development project through interim loans to expedite the delivery of affordable housing to Hawaii's residents. Chair's recommendation will be to pass unamended. Any discussion or questions? If not, chair votes aye.

Members, HCR 83. Chair's recommendation is pass an amendment. Chair votes aye. Anybody's voting of reservations or no's? With all others voting aye?

Reservations. Just just on a procedural it sounds like a sounds like a bill to me. So I support the policy, but I think a bill is probably

Alright. Reservation by Senator Rhodes.

Actually, can we can we clarify that from the, HHFDC director? Does the does your agency lack the authority to issue these loans without a statutory change?

No. We do have the authority to provide pre development loans. It is more of a policy, policy guidance, I think, that this resolution helps. It would give comfort to our board knowing that the legislature supports use of predevelopment of DURF for predevelopment loans for government projects. Otherwise, they might see these as a high risk projects, which, you know, they, they're stewards of our funds.

They might feel that perhaps it's too risky to provide these loans to government projects.

You know, I'm still WR. Just I mean, that's a yes. It's still a yes. Yep.

Chair would you give consideration to putting the remarks from mister Mina Kami in the committee report regarding forgiving of loans or in the event that the developer would default and using land as collateral if you're open to that?

Yes. Certainly. Okay. And and also the discussion of the statutory authority agency as

Thank you.

Alright. Further discussion? Okay. Again, for HCR 83, chair's recommendation is to pass unamended. Chair votes aye.

Members, HCR 83, chair's recommendation is

to pass with amendments. Chair votes aye, noting the reservations with Senator Rhodes, and excuse us, Senator Phil. Anybody else, voting with reservations or no's with all other voting, aye recommendations adopted.

Thank you very much. That there being no further business, this hearing is adjourned.

Thank you for joining us, our vast audience of interested parties in this joint hearing with the Camillo Energy Intergovernmental Affairs and our good friends from the Camillo on Housing on this Thursday, April 16 at 01:30, Room 225. We are streaming this fantastic hearing live on YouTube. If we have any kind of catastrophic ending, we will post a public notice on when we will reconvene. We're gonna ask those hoards of people who wanna testify in this bill to hold your testimony to two minutes.

On our testifiers list, we have Ted Kafales, who is not here, Kylie Davenport.

Ricky, is Kylie by chance on Zoom?

Not present, chair.

Okay. That's all we have for individuals hoping to indicating they are have a desire to testify. Is it, Ricky, anybody online, by chance, waiting out there to share their on this bill or its result?

Not online, sir.

Okay. We will take a brief recess as we look for court. Thank you for your patience. We would like to reconvene our committee on energy and intergovernmental affairs and our friends from the committee on housing. We have one measure up for votes on this agenda.

It's house Concurrent Resolution 98 HD one. Members, we heard a very similar resolution and would like to put the language from that Senate resolution, which was setting Concurrent Resolution 107 SD1 into this result.

Just for clarification, the guts of SCR 107 SD1 specifies the countywide housing pattern book applies only to the city and county of Honolulu and request the Department of Housing and Land Management at the city and county of Honolulu to collaborate with the department planning and permitting within the city and county of Honolulu. So that's the recommended amendment to this resolution. Any discussion?

If not, Senator Chang, I vote yes.

Chair's recommendation for HCR 98 is to pass with amendments. Chair votes yes. Vice chair votes aye. Senator DeCoite? Aye.

And senators Richards and Fevella are excused. The recommendation is adopted. And for the committee on housing, same recommendation for HCR 98 to pass with amendments. Any discussion?

Members, HCR 98, chair's recommendation passed with amendments. Chair votes aye. Vice chair votes aye. Senator Elefante? Aye.

Senator Rhodes? Aye. Senator Fevella is excused. Chair recognition is adopted.

Great. Thank you.