Senate Standing Committee on Education

Good afternoon and welcome to the Committee. Senate Committee on Education. Today is Friday, January 30th. It's 1pm in room 229 and we are here to hold informational briefings on Hawaii P20 partnerships for education and Department of Education budget and capital improvement projects.

A live stream of our Senate Standing Committee meetings will be available on the Senate YouTube channel in case you missed this or you want to watch yourself when you go home this weekend. So with that, so let's start off with Hawaii P20. Steven Schatz, Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Senator Kim, Senator Hashimoto, Senator Decorte, appreciate the opportunity to be here. My name is Stephen Schatz. I'm the Executive Director of Hawaii P20 Partnerships for Education. To my knowledge, I don't think we've ever done a P20 specific briefing.

So definitely appreciate the ability to have a conversation with Members of the Committee and share with the public some of the work that we've been up to both as P20 the organization, but also P20 the partnership, which is between the University of Hawaii, the K12 public school system and the Executive Office of Early Learning.

So appreciate the opportunity to talk a little bit about what we've accomplished, what our purpose is and how we do our work. So our purpose is to strengthen the educational pipeline. In particular, we focus on areas of transition.

So we wake up in the morning thinking about the transitions between early ed and kindergarten, between middle and high school, between high school, college and the workforce. And we fulfill this purpose by doing two different functions.

One is we serve as what's sometimes called an education intermediary, meaning we're a facilitator, we convene, we bring people together, we try and solve problems together. So we leverage that convening power, the data that we can provide, and we work with our partners to try and find a way to make sustainable change.

And then we're also a direct service provider. So especially through our gear up work, but also in our pathway shop, we are on the ground working with schools, providing direct services or funding for direct services to schools throughout the state. We do both of these things with an eye for systemic change.

So like even if we're implementing a program that is a grant funded program, we're often thinking about how can we create change for the entire system, how can we make this a sustainable thing that goes on beyond this particular grant and our four areas are early care and education, improving post secondary readiness and success career pathways, which includes career and technical education and education and workforce data.

So those are the four strategic areas of our plan. So I want to just talk a little bit about what we've accomplished in our next steps. I'll try and be real quick here with stakeholders. We developed a statewide literacy plan which laid the groundwork for multimillion dollar federal grants to the state of Hawaii.

We piloted and scaled a Summer Start kindergarten program with philanthropic funds. This was for incoming kindergartners, basically a transition program. This was funded through the Samuel and Mary Castle Foundation.

We this is a great example of where we tried something with a little bit of philanthropic dollars and then the DOE took it on and now this is going on in around 85 schools across the state.

We helped to develop a kindergarten transition toolkit and then these two websites that you see right there are resources for families to figure out eligibility and also the availability of early childhood programs in, in their region.

Finally, we awarded about 3 and a half million dollars of wage stabilization bonuses to over 1500 early childhood educators across the state. In the last little bit. One of our new things that we're going to work on is we are looking at EOL classrooms. And so EOEL is like regular school hours 8 to 2.

So for parents who are not able to pick up their kids at 2, we think there's an after school care gap. We think that there may be parents who would like to avail themselves of eoel, but if they got to pick up their kid at 2, they just won't do it.

So we're gonna, we're talking story with folks on Kauai. That's where we're thinking of doing the beginnings of assessing the reality of it. We have a little bit of funding from the COSASA foundation to kind of work on that over the next year or so. Second strategic area is post secondary readiness and success.

One of the things that we're sort of known for is fafsa. So we help with FAFSA completion across the state. We provide direct services like in cafeterias, at spaghetti dinner kind of nights to parents and families. But we also provide online help and an email helpline as well right now.

Well, when I wrote this, it was fifth in the nation. And then we checked. I won't admit we're seventh in the nation. We're in FAFSA completion. But still we're doing pretty well this year on FAFSA completion. I know. Senator Kim, you were, you were there at Farrington High School when President Hensel and Superintendent Hayashi was launched.

The Direct to uh program. We were, we helped facilitate the creation of that. We also created the data sharing and data flow infrastructure that make, that enables the student data to come from DOE to UH, so that kids can be admitted to the uh, four years.

So, and then we helped with communication out into the field and then our GEAR UP grant. And I have Angela Jackson somewhere here with me. Angela Jackson is our GEAR UP Director. She's been with us for years running this GEAR UP grant. We did an external evaluation of our GEAR UP program.

So the GEAR UP program is a federal grant to help more low income students get into college, whether it's two or four year trade or technical school. And so we're currently in, we're going to be in 27 DOE schools, 12 high schools and 15 middle schools across the state.

But our external evaluation says that GEAR UP activities significantly predict on time graduation and immediate college enrollment. So we were pretty excited about that. And actually that evaluation informed the way we wrote our new grant. Because what we did was we figured out, okay, what's working in our old grant.

Let's make some of this mandatory in the implementation of our new grant instead of being, you know, instead of being loose about it. Next steps there. In particular for the EUROPE grant, we're really concentrating on 9th grade math readiness. This I know is an issue for that superintendent and the Department are taking very seriously.

Some of our data is really strong that summer programs make an impact on ninth grade. And so that's one of the things we're mandating for our GEAR UP high schools and middle schools is that they have a summer program coming this summer and it has to have an academic component on mathematics. zero, sorry.

And the final one I didn't want to omit is in this GEAR UP iteration, every high school senior graduating from a GEAR UP high school is eligible for a scholarship. $740, the minimum Pell amount.

But every single kid in any of those GEAR UP high schools, if they go to an in state degree granting institution, is eligible for that scholarship. So we have to figure out how we're going to administer this. So don't ask too many questions on that one. But, but, but we're committed to making it happen.

And we're also, we're excited about this. Not just because that money may be significant, but it's also a great thing to be able to communicate. If you're in one of these schools, it actually doesn't matter if you're a Title 1 eligible student or not. It just matters that you're in these schools.

You are eligible for this again in state degree granting institution. So not just university of Hawaii campuses, but other degree granting institutions throughout the state.

You guys have Gear up high schools in Waianae?

Yes, Waianae, Nanakuli. Yeah. In fact, I missed the meeting today because I'm here.

Isn't Gara may lose its funding or.

So we were worried about Europe funding and under the administration's original budget, it had been eliminated, but it ended up getting through. I mean, Gear Up 's an interesting one because there are red and blue states that have Gear up and there are advocates across the Legislature on the federal level for this on both sides of the aisle.

So we were really relieved the requirements for Europe changed a bit. So some of the specifics around targeting particular ethnic groups were essentially disallowed. So our target is now just socio economically disadvantaged. Okay, so career pathways.

The first thing I would like to say to Senator Kim, because the last time I think we spoke in a hearing, you said make sure you get the pathway maps done. We got the pathway maps done. Thanks to Warren. Warren Kawano is our Pathways Strategy Director and our CTE guy.

I want to acknowledge that these pathway maps are complete, but they are a little bit hard to navigate for an average student. And so that is why we're excited about the legislature's appropriation to the CCS for that AI path. I heard you all talking about this the other day with Kahela Duklo.

That Pathways program will take our maps and essentially make it easier and more digestible to navigate for your average family and kids. Right now our maps are pretty useful for a CTE lead in a school, a counselor, a teacher.

I don't know that a student would necessarily be able to navigate it, but we have all the nuts and bolts there. So we're excited that the Legislature is investing and kind of making it a little easier to digest.

So why did you guys do it if it's only people with degrees can.

Well, to be honest, that was our intent to begin with, is we wanted to inform the council. We wanted to make sure the counselors and the CTE folks at the school level could say, hey, you're in this program right now. Here are your options for where to go next should you want to continue.

Believe it or not, this mapping didn't exist. So you could have like somebody at Kapolei High School in a particular CTE program. Maybe not. I'm not picking on them. That's hypothetical. But not knowing that Leeward does or does not offer a continuation of that program.

So the work that Warren and his folks did was to go out to talk to all the CTE deans, all the CTE resource teachers, vet these maps and say, okay, does this make sense? And we finally got through it. So it was necessary and not sufficient, I guess, is what I would say. We expanded. Oh, sorry.

We have Career Navigators. These are individuals who work for Hawaii P20, but they work with I believe one to three schools and they help students who are unsure of their future plans to navigate their high school senior year.

So whether they want to become, whether they want to go to a four year or two year military, go straight to work. These navigators work alongside the high school counseling staff and are helping these folks along. We're looking at some philanthropic dollars to expand this. But the preliminary data looks good, the engagement looks really good.

The qualitative data looks excellent. We get a lot of thank yous and like loving notes and such. And it really touches our hearts that we seem to be making an impact with this Navigators program. One last thing I'll say on this one is with our CTE plan, although most of the money gets formed, so we get.

We are the state Office of Career and Technical Education, as such, I'm the state Director of CTE and we receive the Perkins grant money from the Federal Government which has its set of requirements. Mostly that money gets split 50/50 between DOE and UH DOE CCS and sorry, DOE High Schools and, and the uh, community college system.

We are using our reserve funds differently than we ever have and we're, we created basically a competitive grant system for high schools and colleges to say, hey, I want to do a welding program at our high school. If they can justify that it's aligned with labor market needs, we give them whatever amount of money it is.

And so, you know, it could be anything from small dollar amount like 13,000 to maybe 50,000. But we're trying to incentivize exciting new programs that are aligned with workforce needs. And then we're also trying to incentivize alignment between the high school and the community college.

So to me those are the ones I want to see more of, is I want more jointly submitted requests between LCC and Waipahu or stuff like that.

So the DOD program that got instituted at HCC and Jennifer Sabas has been working with high schools and the intermediate schools. So is that something you've been involved with as far as.

We've been in conversations with them and we've. But I haven't been that directly involved in the implementation. Yeah, they invite us to their convenings and we've been Having some conversations. We should get more involved with them, to be honest.

Yeah. Because they're doing exactly what you're saying.

And they're not stopping just at the high school, but they're going down to the middle schools and putting them on a pathway. So they're doing Dole, and then Dole feeds into Farrington and Farrington feeds into HCC, which seems like a natural pathway.

Yeah.

It is a natural pathway. Yeah.

And she's not asking us for any money.

I know. To be fair, neither am I.

So you said 50. 50. So the funding is basically federal funding.

The funding. So P20's funding is a combination of general funds. 1.1 something around there. Sorry, it might not be the exact number, butessentially general funds, which funds some of the P20 positions, but also some positions in career and technical education. So we recently merged with cte. So that's how we got those CTE G funded positions.

But most of our funding is either federal or philanthropic grants. So basically 7% of our funding is G funds appropriated by the Legislature. Most of our funding is GEAR up is a big chunk of it. In the past we've had these federal grants for data for early ed.

We have generous support from some of our philanthropic partners throughout the state. But yeah, most of our funding is.

Because you're not statutorily created. No, you're just creating doe. And uh. And you fall under, uh.

Correct. So we sit at the University of Hawaii system office under the Vice President. I mean the. Yeah, the President, but the Vice President for Academic affairs.

So you. Do you get any direct funding from UH. At all?

Yes, the G funding is. It flows through UH. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. So we give it to people, but they don't give you anything out of their budget.

Well, it's all. I mean, yeah, we don't get a direct appropriation for like Hawaii P20, I think it goes to UH. And then that's how we're funded. Yeah, yeah. Those maps as I mentioned, I think the next steps are to integrate those both with the, the UHCC initiative, but also with the DOE's personal transition plan.

So both the DOE, I think it's almost right now. I'm not sure if that RFP for the PTP is out now, but in any case, the idea is all the data that we have, which I'll admit sometimes clunky, but it's really robust data.

If we do a good job of integrating it with these, with the DOE personal transition plan and the uh, AI career platform, then we're going to have A tool that's really useful for our parents and for our students. Last one, Last one. Sorry, I don't know if this last one.

Actually I wanted to, I wanted to just mention this because this is a little bit different. This is our convening power or convening influence. The Lieutenant Governor asked us to convene a just basically a work group on solving the teacher shortage. And involved have been HTSB, HSTA, University of Hawaii CC's and College of ED.

Doe us and probably forgetting some. And we're going to be inviting Senator Kim to be a part of that as well. You are? Yeah. I've been asked to ask. Yeah, I want to just share some highlights from this. Two really good things that have happened.

The first one is that the University of Hawaii and I heard Dean Marata talking about it the other day is really on the cusp of creating true seamless pathways between two years and four years. This has always been a problem. Since I've been around, these conversations have been in fits and starts.

They actually got down to the nitty gritty. They remove or they are removing a lot of the prerequisite requirements that have been there for you to enter as a junior into the College of ED@MNOA.

So we're really optimistic and impressed and I want to give credit to Nate Marata, Janet Kim and some of the other folks at the College of ED. But also on the UHCC side, Kahili Duglott and some of the other folks who were over there who are making this happen.

Last one is we have stood up educator Rising chapters in eight high schools. So these are clubs essentially like CTE clubs. And we're going to have a competition next week that where we're trying to get kids excited to be teachers.

If we can't get more kids enrolled as first time freshmen at the University of Hawaii, we won't graduate more and we won't solve the problem. We got to start at the beginning of the pipeline. These eight schools where there are ED Rising clubs are places where there are no CTE pathways in education.

So sometimes they might be a small school or they might just not have as much interest. But we shouldn't just limit ourselves to those officially with CTE pathways. So I'm excited about this. The Castle foundation, the Harold Castle foundation, funded these at Rising clubs, worked at the College of ED. Yeah.

And then the final one is we're doing a particular pathway ourselves at P20. Stay at home, grow your own. The idea being for neighbor island kids to be able to stay on their island, take some early college classes in high school, get some experience. Leeward is the partner and uh, West Oahu is the partner.

And so we're on our second cohort of this work. This is our data. We also are the statewide longitudinal Data system under HRS 27.7. And we try to maintain transparency by providing resources to the community and our educational leaders so they can make important decisions using those resources.

Thanks. Let me just follow up on things first. $3.6 million, a workforce stabilization wage bonus. When was that and how is that reoccurring? Or is that.

No, that was a federal grant.

So it was a time grant?

Yeah, it was a one time federal grant.

What year was that?

It ended. I think we have a no cost extension. So basically it's over. It just ended in fall of.

So was it one year?

No, it was a three year grant. Yeah, yeah. And it was a grant that we executed in partnership with the Executive Office of Early Learning.

That made a difference.

We're not sure yet that was part of what we planned to do. Right. The idea was to augment these folks wages.

The pathways to two years, seamless transition to four years, which I think is excellent. But I want to caution that we're not just pushing kids or students to the next level just because we want to get them out into the workplace and that we're substitute, not substituting, we're foregoing basics, basic soft skills, basic competencies.

Because the real world and the technical world is very different. Right. So just because they get a degree doesn't necessarily mean that they're ready to enter the workforce. Maybe they got the skill to do something, but they don't. They cannot connect the dots. They don't have the critical thinking thinking.

And I hope that part, the critical thinking part is not being sacrificed because there needs to be a balance. Right?

Just as we get these online, completely online degrees, which is convenient and great for, for people. But the professors too, you know, they got so complacent in that they do this automatic 24/7. What is it called? What's the word that they use? Asynchronous. Yes.

Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so they don't have to do anything, you know, but then we're putting out, we're putting out citizens that don't have those critical thinking, haven't, haven't talked with, with other people, haven't had those relationships and stuff.

And so I'm not sure what, what kind of students we're putting out there into the workforce at some point because it's going to catch up with us. Right?

Yeah. And I would say one of our strategies on that end is to ensure that folks, folks in high school have, or students in high school have work based learning experiences so they can go out in the world, learn how to be professional, learn how to be responsible.

And the Legislature funded the DOE last year with a bunch of workforce development money. And then of course, the Legislature funded the HELEMUA program. Right. Another way to ensure that they're not just having this academic experience, they're having a real world one.

Because, you know, the ASIC professors, they don't get to know the students, they don't talk to the students, they have no way of really evaluating the students.

And at the same time, I'm just wondering what happens to their salaries if they're not actually in the classrooms with the students and they have 24/7 and they're out doing all kinds of other things. Then, you know, I'm. And the school teacher is still in the classroom. Yeah, the school teacher has that.

And they still don't, don't have parity with the professors.

Yeah.

And so to me, there's a real, real disparity between the two because face to face learning versus async type classes, it's one thing to have a online class where you have a professor there with you and talking to you and you have groups, but to have this async really, I mean, I'm not sure.

What it takes a very motivated student.

Exactly, exactly. And then they pass and they go on into the world and then that's not how the real world is. Right. So again, I hope that as we look at that, that we really consider, because years from now we're going to look back and say, O my God, you know, we did a.

We were a disservice to those that got these degrees. Right. Okay, Members, questions.

Sorry, I would just like. Thank you. I would just like to circle back to the after school care for the EOEL. Are you folks not able to integrate that into the A program with the DOE?

I mean, I think the answer is we're not sure what the best connection is. Yeah, the first thing we're going to do is assess the reality of the situation, whether private providers make sense, whether A makes sense. Going to kind of go talk to folks and understand the landscape and then try and pilot something from there.

So we're really not sure. Yeah.

Okay. I know that program has been working very well in my district, so I just want to continue to see it move forward. So thank you. Got it. Thank you. Chair.

I guess, on that, since we're talking about early childhood. So the thing that's been. I've been trying to tell, you know, the EOEL folks is that they really got to look at who's, you know, enrolling in Open Doors and who's going to EOEL, because Open Doors has, you know, we haven't historically expended the full amount. Right.

So we have to change the law to allow more people to go. And I've been trying to tell them, okay, you got to go collect some data of who in EOEL actually qualifies for open doors. Right. And it's just. To me, it's just a data thing that you got to fill up Open Doors.

And then whoever doesn't, you know, go into Open Doors, then you can go into eol. And I know there's choice, but there's. We're leaving money on the table, and our goal is universal pre K, and we're just not getting there.

But, you know, and so they're claiming they're going to go look at the data, but I was like, we should have been looking at the data from the beginning. So I don't know if you have any insight on that, but I think, you know, you.

You with all the data, I think we really need to make sure that.

Just to be clear, that early AD data is a little more. It's a little more disparate too, because even the EOEL is an administratively attached agency, so their data. Are you going to get their data once they start collecting? We're not being asked to be the data hub for the early.

So it sounds like they're going to do their own.

That's what they intend. Yeah.

Maybe we got to go get a sharing agreement then. So at least, you know, I mean.

We'Re happy to help because I think we have some experience in setting up data sharing infrastructure to make sure it's safe and. And secure and it works. So. But they've. I think they're making a renewed commitment to work through the questions that you raise.

Well, we gotta. We gotta spend the money or else. Right? We're not gonna educate these kids. Right. Okay. Moving on to, I guess, the teacher pathway. So. So what is your. What is your. I'm glad that you're. You're working on it as well. But what's, you know, since. On.

If you watched on Wednesday, we had this whole thing about with tecc. What's your integration with them? And are you guys overlapping or what's. What's the difference?

I mean, I would say we're overlapping in a positive way. Right. The, the group that we convene is, is just the public entities though. Okay. Right. Like it's only those that are state funded. We're really just talking doe, uh, the unions or. Yeah, the actually unions.

So they, I would say TCC has a broader responsibility dealing with accreditation and other issues. I know they're trying to like work on solving the teacher shortage, but ours is kind of like, I don't know whether the right word is strategic plan, but we're trying to just get like change numbers. Right.

Like we need more first time freshmen who want to be teachers. Your data doesn't lie. Let's get focused on that. And then at the uh, side, let's ensure that everyone who wants to be a teacher can get out in a reasonable amount of time and start filling our classroom. So it's like a little less.

At least at this time. A little less. Those two buckets are kind of tactical. Let's go get some numbers.

Well, I know the university is really trying go from two year to four year, but to me, and we talked about this at our last hearing, I think what you got to really think about is you're then always ending up at Manoa on campus.

And so part of it is we gotta figure out, and I think we have to take into consideration what Senator Kim is saying. But I think with teaching, you deploy them out in the field. It doesn't matter what island you're on, you can deploy them already right after year two.

And then really do you need to be on campus really for the in person learning of the actual teacher? Because they're actually out in the field, you can do some type of creative thinking there. But I think the frustration is that we haven't gone far enough. Right.

I think two to four is great, but really the concern is the rural areas. Right. And I know, I know you know, that's an issue, but I think we need to double down on that effort of we're losing all these neighbor Islanders. Right?

Yes. I mean, although I will say, uh, recently responded or uh, Hilo responded by standing up a teacher prep bachelor's program where they. Whereas before it was. And that's great. So that's like responding to that work. I mean that, that.

So that takes care of Hilo, you know, you know you have Maui, Kauai, which you're going to do. Well, it might not even take care of the west side, the big island.

Right.

So but yeah, so anyway, I think that's, that's that focus needs to be there. I think we're, we're not even capturing the low hanging fruit. Right. Which is. Okay, there's just. If you're a student on Maui, look at, okay, I want to be a teacher. You like give up already because you can be a nurse.

Because it's so easy to become a nurse because we have it laid out for you and you look at teaching, oh my God, of course you're not going to be a teacher because it's just way too hard. Right. And so I think that's, that's the point. That was my point on Wednesday, that's my point today.

But I think at least you're working on. And I think that's, that's where we got to go. But I think we just got to break down those barriers. Right. And because it's, it's an issue.

So. Yeah. Okay.

You know, certainly appreciate the key accomplishments that you put in your report and the comment that you made that this is the first time that you're doing an actual P20 which you know, raises the issue as to how, how widely disseminated information regarding what P20 is doing and, and the data and how well closely like do you folks present with the Board of Education or do you, you know, we need to have more.

We do. We at least annually, more like two times a year. We definitely present to the Board of Education. We also always present to do. We're always, every year we're presenting our data findings to DOE leadership and leadership at the University of Hawaii. We share with the Business Roundtable, Chamber of Commerce folks like that.

So we try to get our messages out and share what we're up to.

So do you have any forms, formal type of reporting on whether the pathways directly lead to local job placements and is there any evidence based performance metrics on that?

So we, here's what we have and what we don't have. We have path. We can see whether or not graduates of particular programs at university end up in our workforce. So we've asked that question, for example of you know, our four focus areas it skilled trades, healthcare and teaching. And so we collect data on that.

How long have you been collecting data on that?

Couple years now.

On that time we asked, uh, you said, zero, you don't know. They haven't been really keeping track of where the graduates are going.

Yeah, well, we're not, there's a, there's a caveat there. We, we can see oftentimes you can't see whether they're in the field that they graduated in. You can see whether they're employed. So the data systems aren't that great. And I don't, you know, the data system doesn't give you the specificity that you might want.

Like if an IT somebody graduates with an IT degree from uh and then they're working in McDonald's. Well, no, let's make it better. Sorry. Nothing against McDonald's. If they're working in a hospital, you might think they're in healthcare, but they're really doing it for the hospital. So it gets a little confusing.

The one where it's not that confusing, though, is education and Educate. I mean, Nate shared the data the other day. Right. 90% retention rate after five years. And then our data shows graduates from, uh education programs are very, very likely to be found in our workforce.

So when you think about, like, jobs that you can have in a rural community, helping your community that are a living wage, not saying they get paid enough, but it's a living wage. Education's a really good one. It's a good investment for these, for these kids who want to stay home and help their community.

So what would you say the amount of students that did that, P20 directly served and what happened to them? I mean, I know you said that you folks have. But do you have records of that?

I have to think about that. Yeah. I mean, we evaluate the impacts in particular for our Gear up students, because that's where we're definitely on the ground.

And then we have some other Pathways grants where we're working with schools, and then we collect data separately for those grants according to whoever's the funder is, but never sort of in aggregate. Yeah, but we can certainly share the Gear UP data.

So you folks did have a promotion. I would call it a promotion, but a 55 by 25 goal. Right. So did Hawaii reach the 55? We did not.

We did not. Although the numbers improved pretty significantly. But the new goal that was set by the Hawaii P20 Council a couple years ago is Hawaii Graduates for Hawaii's Future. And if you want to go to that website, there's. There's a little more information about what that sort of conceptually means.

But the idea is we want to be able to create a future for our students, and we also want our students to be able to create their future, and we want that to be here within that. Hawaii Graduates for Hawaii's Future.

We got agreement from early ED, K12, higher ED to measure our progress in those three areas and then a little bit of workforce data as well although that's again as I mentioned, a little blurrier.

But those four sub goals of Hawaii graduates for Hawaii's future kind of give you this macro picture of how we're doing not dissimilar to the last couple pages of this deck but a little more in detail and with demographic disaggregations and such. So I think there's a synergy. Right.

You hear a lot of people talking about we need a pipeline for these kids to stay home. We need, we need a way for them to come back home. We want to create a Hawaii where they can live and thrive here.

From the Workforce Development Council it feels like there are more people on the same page about the purpose of education and the ways in which education can help our students to succeed and solve Hawaii's problems and be here while they solve them.

So what would you say the measurable improvements what measurable improvements you can show for Hawaii public school students, especially for title one school.

I would say, you see, generally speaking, a couple data points that are positive. One is that the first time freshmen at UH generally are at the trajectory is getting higher for those who are in English 100 and math 100 or above.

So, you know, this is one of the things we measure because especially math, like the entry level math, can be an impediment to success. So we measure that over the years and we're seeing an upward trajectory.

I think a lot of that is early college, to be honest, because if they come in with English 100 and or math 100, then they've already passed that hurdle and they may have gotten it with a little more support than they would have gotten because they're doing it in high school. There might be a tutor.

They might get more time to work on it. So that's one good thing. I would say the increase in University of Hawaii college going rate generally looks positive to me. I think it speaks to the pathways that are trying to be developed.

It's a little hard to be like this is causal, but I'm a little bit optimistic that one of the reasons kids are choosing UH is because they're getting excited about the pathway they're in, in high school, and then they matriculate to continue.

But are you. So you're not going in and you're actually talking to some of these students. Then, as you know, just take a student, be like, okay, what made you make that decision?

We do focus groups at times, especially through Gear Up. We do surveys and focus groups through Gear up. Not sure we've done it in the context of pathways, though. That's a good thought and question.

Cause I think what if the true ultimate show of success is if you can prove that it's because of those things? I think that's great anecdotal information, and I hope it's true. But I think we got to somehow figure out how do we track that. Right. Because I think, you know, I think you're on the right track.

It's just a matter of. Let's just see if the student will actually say that. Yeah, yeah. Or, I mean, they might say something different and we might not even know it too. Right? That's right. Might be interesting. Yeah.

Because. Oh, I apologize. Go ahead. Do you at least have the data on what industries that they're leading into? Do you have at least that data?

Sorry, could you repeat the question?

Yeah, the industries that they're interested in getting into. So teachers, nurses, construction.

We have the data based on their course taking.

Yeah. So we can tell, you know, like, we're seeing an increase in. I don't remember what the name of the program is in high school, but it's essentially aligned with the value added centers that have been. Like, we're seeing an increase in interest in those CTE programs that are about entrepreneurship and manufacturing of food products.

Yeah.

So I think the investments that the Ledge make influence what kids are interested in doing in high school and college. And I think that's a good thing.

Really quick. And then, because I'm noticing through some conversations that I'm having with some of the university students, is that I believe some of them may be getting into business degrees only kind of as a place to sit there to find out what they really are interested in.

So we can help to narrow that down sooner rather than later. They're interested in college. They want to pursue a higher education. So I think helping them to find that career pathway you. Is very critical. So they don't spend four years in business and not really sure what they. Yeah.

And then change and then.

Yeah.

Waste their parents money. Yeah.

So I think the bottom line question is, which P20 pathways align with Hawaii's workforce shortages and how many students actually fill these jobs? So.

Yeah.

Okay, so if outcomes do not improve or get exponentially better, what should.

I mean. My honest assessment of. My honest answer to that is it depends on the outcome. And I think these outcomes are chosen because there's like a research base behind them. Readiness for kindergarten, third grade reading. You guys have heard many times, right? Ninth grade success, first year freshman.

These are metrics that weren't just chosen out of the air. I would say there's progress being made on some of them. And then there are areas where we gotta dig down as a community and say, what's gonna. But I would just also add, it's not one person or one entity's in one entity's control. Right.

Like, we all have to like, as it relates to reading. This is a teacher prep issue as much as it is a professional development and readiness issue within the doe. Right. So that's. If you were talking about third grade reading, I would say there may be a role for the Board of Ed.

There may be a role for the Legislature, There may be a role for the teacher preparation programs, and there's definitely a role for the doe. Right. So it sort of depends on the metric. But then that's why I think the power of showing data is just that transparency. And then like, hey, let's.

If we don't know what we're trying to achieve. We're not going to achieve it. Right.

Well, and that's why we're here.

That's why this Committee has asked and is doing these informational briefings and why we want all of you here, we want the Board of ED here, we want the Board of Regents here because they're the ones that oversee and they're the ones should be looking at the policies and they can't make policies or understand it unless they know how the community is actually feeling about this.

We represent the community and so when you hear from us, we're representing what's going on in our districts and that's so important. So it really concerning when not everybody's at the table because not everybody's talking to each other.

And we need DOE to talk to UH to let them know what we need in the classrooms, how to deliver education, how to deliver the product to the students.

And then UH needs to know, well, if this is what we want, then this is how we have to educate and prep our teachers to be able to fulfill that. But if that communication is not happening, then we're going to continue to continue to go on and wonder why we're not doing better.

I will say this is the best I've seen communication. Communication's always been pretty good between UH and doe. And this is, I think we're at a spot where it's better than it's been, better than it's ever been.

I think it also has to do with new leadership at the university. I mean, you know, I have to say that. So I'm happy that that's going on. But you know, we're here to talk about P20. And so to justify continued legislative support, I think P20 must one define clear current outcomes metrics.

You know, attainment, persistent completion, workforce placement, publicly report annual results.

Also, you know, talking about Title 1 schools and uh, campuses demonstrate non duplicate, non duplication prove outcomes would not occur without P20 tie pathways to Hawaii workforce shortage and report in state job placements show return on investment including sustainable beyond federal grants and accept consequences if outcomes are not met, including restructuring or consolidation.

So, you know, I think that's a lot that you folks will have on your plate. But I think that should apply to everyone if we want to really make a difference and really transform how we deliver education to the students and how we support our teachers. Thank you Members. Any other questions on this?

If not. Stephen, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay, we are moving on to DOE. See, okay, budget and capital improvements.

Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chairs of the Committee on Education, thank you for the opportunity to provide an update the Department's Capital Improvement Program. When it comes to CIP, our goal is to ensure that every student has access to safe, modern and healthy learning environments that support teaching and learning.

At the same time, we recognize that prior approaches to managing CIP have not consistently met that goal and that this has raised legitimate concerns about accountability, prioritization and execution. It's important to understand the scale of what the Department manages to we oversee over 21 and a half million square feet of facilities across more than 260 sites statewide.

Currently, we have 42 capital projects in active construction with balances exceeding $1 million, along with 15 additional large scale projects in design, closing or land acquisition phases. We appreciate the Legislature's support, particularly the creation of 11 categorical lump sum CIP buckets which provide greater flexibility to manage projects more efficiently and address urgent needs.

For the biennium, the Board of Education approved $784.4 million and with Act 250 the total is 950.9 million. The Executive budget includes 475.5 million, reflecting reductions across multiple facility categories. I also want to directly address the concern that the Department lacks a strategy for improving cip.

We are intentionally rebuilding the program with an initial focus on governance, prioritization, transparency and data integrity. The Board of Education is actively holding the Department accountable by requiring regular CIP updates at Board Meetings, initiating an updated facilities condition assessment, and directing the development of clearer and more consistent prioritization methodologies.

Earlier this month, we reported to the Board that in the six months ending December 2025, the Department completed 23 construction projects totaling $235 million. At the Department level, we are strengthening oversight, improving communication with schools in complex areas, and increasing visibility into project status and timelines.

We have also examples where complex projects have been delivered on time and on budget and we are working to make that level of performance more consistent. Given the size and complexity of the public school system, we believe that a deliberate approach focused on improvement and and oversight is the most responsible path forward.

We appreciate your continued partnership as we work as we work to deliver better outcomes for our students and communities. Thank you very much.

You stated in the beginning you have how many projects over $1 billion?

1 million 42 capital projects in active construction with balances exceeding $1 million.

Okay, and then what about your encumbered projects? How many projects is that and what's that total amount?

Joining me is Deputy Superintendent Jesse Suki for facilities.

Vice Chair, Members, Chair we have for you asking for the encumbered contracts.

Yes, and incomplete projects.

So for. In June 2025, we reported 798.2 million in encumbered, unexpended funds. Those are contracts that are encumbered. And moving. We took a look recently, more recently, and Our number is 592 million for 800 contracts. So these are point in time sort of numbers.

And we're refining that as we prepare a response to one of your requests that's turning in on how are you.

Able to respond to the request or how are you able to even get these numbers if you can't even respond to our request?

We have the numbers in our system. The way that you wanted to see the numbers is not how we keep our reports. So we're putting them to the format that your office had sent to us.

It's not my request. It's not my format. You folks submitted this, signed by the Superintendent on March 23, 2023 to Senator Del la Cruz. And this is what. This is what you folks provided. And it's over a billion dollars worth of projects.

And I asked this past year, over eight months ago, I asked for you to update this list and I have still not gotten it. So I'm not sure why you're not able to produce it.

Well, the office sent you an update, but it didn't have one of the columns.

You wanted a couple columns.

So we're adding those columns on in the response.

How did this get produced if you don't have this on your record that you could just update it.

So that past one, which was to Senator Dela Cruz for WAM.

Yes.

Yeah. The person who prepared it at the time, he added those columns on his own by taking it out of the system. But we don't have like you press a button and that report comes out. So we're sort of doing it again for this response you want on Monday.

So it's taking them some time, but they're working on it.

That's what I have a hard time understanding. Somebody comes in, they put together a comprehensive report, and somewhere along the line you don't have the structure to continue to upgrade this comprehensive report. So how do you know where we're at? Because we can't even update this.

Yeah, we, we at DOE know where we are with our contracts. Reporting it in that way, that particular way, that takes some effort.

Well, this particular way shows designer obligated funds design and obligated the date of it, the construction obligated funds, construction obligation date, the status and the project completion shortage. So it's not, you know, this rocket science columns that we're asking you unreasonably to provide to us.

This is standard information and you've already provided it to us two years ago. I've asked for this eight months ago and obviously I didn't have any confidence that I would get it. So I asked BNF for this information.

BNF provided it to me almost a week later, less than a week later, although they didn't have the rest of the columns because they said only DOE can give me that columns and they weren't able to give it to me by schools.

So if BNF can provide this within a week, I'm not sure why DOE, having already done it in 2023, is not able to each year update it so that you folks know where you're at and that you can anticipate that we're going to ask this.

That's a good point. And I don't think the request is unreasonable. But it is a different report. What Daggs prepared.

Yeah, well, I don't want what Daggs prepared, but Daggs did prepare. They gave the account title, the lapse date, the amount appropriated allotted and claims balance and they didn't give all the others that rely.

Yeah, we're preparing the columns.

Yeah, but it worries me that you folks is like recreating the wheel for some of these products. I mean, eight months ago that we.

Asked this right when we reported initially to you, it did not include the last two columns. That is not on the Dags report, but we're adding it in and we'll get that to you by Monday. I'm sorry, it's ticking so long.

Okay, I'm, I'm just concerned because, you know, if, and I'm sure you were present at Friday's hearing when we heard from the auditor and the auditor was very much concerned about the incomplete, loosely organized, inconsistent collection of school level practices that is incapable of being meaningfully evaluated in the heat abatement.

They said, unable to verify what was spent, where it was spent, what it was spent on due to poor record keeping, provide inconsistent, incomplete and sometimes contradictory information. The auditor also further noted that DOE was never able to provide basic details about the program. So you can see where there seems to be this common thread running through.

So. And the findings are not just isolated to this program that they talk about seems to mirror the committee's own experience in requesting information is not just this information, but you know, number of types of information. But I mean this is the largest CIP portfolio. Right. Largest CIP portfolio. And if you guys can't have a.

A regular update of what's going on, I'm not sure how we can proceed forward. And it's no wonder we have this billions of billion dollars worth of projects that's. I don't know. That's sitting there. Well, we're not sure what's happening.

Oh, no, no, no. That. That. Those projects are not sitting there. Those are encumbered projects that are in process.

Yes. But they're not done. And somehow. Okay, tell me, how many of these projects in this. How old are some of them? How many? Can you give me a breakdown?

Those are. I don't have it in front of me, but we can provide that. We. We did.

Okay, this is my point. We've asked for this before. We asked for it again. We put it on the hearing notice. We asked it for you to provide it to us. You didn't provide it. You said you were going to try to get it to us by Monday. You knew that we're going to ask these questions.

So, I mean, how can you measure where you folks are at if you don't know? Like, you know, we have 300 projects that have been on the book since 2016.

Well, we have 2018. Right. We have it. We have it in different formats, and we can provide it to you in that format with the extra columns. The staff is working on adding those two extra columns. Okay.

Right now I'm only asking for you for the number and how old it is.

Yeah. Off the top of my head, but we can provide that.

Okay. So any given time, you don't know what's. How old these projects and how long they've been sitting on the books.

Well, they have it in the system. Right. So I have to get a.

But you guys, as the administrators have to know this in order to react and ask the Legislature. Are you going to ask us for funding to complete these projects? You have enough money to complete these projects. You have to take it from somewhere else. You understand what we're asking?

Right, right. So we have in our budget that was approved by the Board of Education, what projects we're asking to Fund in the various buckets that were approved. I can go through those.

No, I've seen that. What I want to know is how many of them are on this list? How many on this list is going to be completed? Because the superintendent told us that there's 42 projects over a million dollars. They only did three. 23. Only did 23. I'm not sure.

How many you can actually complete in a year, but obviously. And that's just those projects. These are. These are projects that have been on the books. Again, can you tell me what's the earliest project date? That's been the oldest it's been on the books.

Yeah. For those particular projects that superintendent mentioned. That's from that. That was ending in December and from July. June. So it's a period of time. But we report to the board frequently on, you know, periods of time and how many projects we completed and the value of that.

Right, yeah, I understand, but I'm just making a point that there's 42, over a million, and folks completed 23. Right. And then you have these. And again, I have no idea where this are. Where this is at this timeline, but just the fact that. Are you aware of what is the oldest project that's sitting here? What date?

The letter that we provided to you previously would have that on it. That's the one you have in front of you. Do I have that one?

June 172025. All this letter says is, thank you for Your memorandum of May 302025. State Department Improvement Projects attaches the list shown this. They didn't tell me any date. Doesn't tell me when the latest point, how old it is.

Yeah, I can provide that to you. What we've looked at so far are the projects from 2005 moving forward to bring us sort of up to date with the monies that we can put to work for us and the Department. You know, we're still looking at the projects that are older than that.

We're preparing a report for the board on that. And that takes some time to pull all that up. Working on that.

Okay. How long has these projects been on the books? Some of these projects, I mean, this goes back, right, 2016. Longer than that.

They go back to the time when Dags. You know, the point in time when Dags transferred to the Department.

Okay. Which is when?

2005. 2005. Yeah.

So since 2005 to now, you folks haven't figured out how long it's been and where we're at? I mean, the board hasn't asked for it till now. Only now you guys are doing this?

No, we've always known we have a list of all the projects. But the way that we prioritize which projects are moving on the list is part of a process that. That we go through every year, annually, with the CAS's and principals to look at needs and that we've.

You know, we evaluate through the buckets that the Legislature allowed us to create. So we prioritized based on equity need. You know, it's in different categories. Health and safety, you know, ADA compliance, you know, project completion.

But you do that every year, right?

Every year.

Okay, so in 20. 2025. Right, you said so in 2005, you went through that? Probably. No.

Well, Chair, if I may, most recently the facilities branch leadership have joined the Department, I believe, in the last two years. So over the last two years, when I share that, you know, we're looking at our data systems, we're looking at what we need to improve on. The transparency, the accountability.

Those are all things that our facilities office as well as our IT section is really looking at, the data systems. And I believe that there are improvements that we need to make within our data system so that we can provide what you're asking for. But in the last two years is when we actually had a changeover.

We've also shifted as Deputy had shared, moving to the lump sum buckets. That was, I believe, a year ago. A year ago. So I fully understand what the Committee is asking for. We are definitely evaluating the systems that we have. We have improvements we need to make, and that is coming.

Okay, I think you're missing what we're asking. We're not just asking for a list of projects. Okay. We're asking for this to understand where you folks are and how are you managing the projects, how are you managing the monies.

And if you, you don't have this data available, if you're not, it's, you know, it's like you're so focused on delivering it to us, but you're not focusing on how you are approaching this. So you do have these meetings year to year, but each year, every school will tell you what the priorities.

But back in 2005, they had these priorities and in 2006 they had priorities. Every year there were priorities and they were all needed. Health and safety needed. Many of them are sitting here incompleted. Right. They've incompleted for years and years and years. And now every year you have a new set.

You have now this 42, over a million. Last year you had so many, you're asking for more next year. And yet again, this is sitting and they tell me it's over a billion dollars.

So I'm just saying that again, it's not the assignment isn't necessarily just getting us the data, but if you're not able to give us the data, then how are you able to then manage this live projects? Not that they manage the data, but manage the projects.

If you don't know where you're going, how are you going to get there?

Yeah, so we have the data, we know where the projects are. We're putting it into a format that's taking some time. But the way that those projects are funded is when project funding becomes available. So that is the value of the contracts that are encumbered, but the design and different parts of the process.

How much have you asked for the Legislature this year and last year for projects that's on this list for all of those projects? No, I'm just asking how many of these projects did you ask for funding so you could complete?

We have a completion lump sum bucket that we ask money for and that was part of our budget ask.

Yes, but I want to know how many. Which projects on this list that at some point were deemed important and needed and health and safety. Have you come into the Legislature recently to request funds so you could then complete these projects? How many do you know?

So we have. Let's see, we have 290.

We have 213 CIP line item projects. 97 of the projects have been contracted for design. 31 have been.

No, but how. You're not, you're not hearing the question, how many of them is from this list?

What we'll do is we'll take a look at what you're asking and we'll definitely come back to the Committee with them.

Okay? And I appreciate that answer, but I'm concerned that you're only going to look at it now because I asked for it. You understand what I'm saying? You are not aware because if this continues to sit these. And then the projects now cost more to complete. Right. They probably do more enough money. Right. To complete.

Yet you're also asking for all these new projects to be done. When you have projects that we've expended millions of dollars, a billion dollars worth, and they're not completed and at some point the money is wasted because now when you go back to do it, you got to do new. New plans, new things. Right?

Because things have changed and so. And the prices have gone up. So how do you, how do you deal with this and then which projects you got to scrap? I don't know. I certainly don't want to have one of my schools in here that's going to get scrapped.

And we do have to have that hard look, I believe over those years, what was done, now we need to take a look at back when those projects were determined and were put on the CIP list. Our decisions need to be made in terms of moving forward.

So we will have those discussions and make those recommendations which will include, as you, shared impacts to schools and projects way back from way back when.

What will it take for you to be able to make some dent in this? What would it take for us and has the Board of. Have the Board of Education discuss this particular thing that I'm discussing, not just cip, because I've watched the hearings on cip. There's no mention about this at all.

We have had discussions regarding our. That list and the deferred maintenance offline. Not in the board meeting, but definitely there is a concern.

But shouldn't these things all be public? I mean, that's why you have the Board of Education, that's why it's televised, that's why you have the meetings. This is one of the reasons why I've specifically asked for the Board of Regents, the Board of Education to be here in these meetings.

And I hope they all got to watch the hearing on Friday. Friday we had last Friday Because I don't recall ever that the board took up any of the audits. I don't believe the board even asked for the auditor to come and explain to them about the audits, you know. Well, you did.

That's not true.

Okay, you can, I'll let you come up and you can, you can make it. You can respond.

Yeah. What you want me to respond to?

Well, okay. Have you folks met with the auditor on the audits?

We personally didn't meet with Dodd, but the heat abatement audit was on the board agenda as well. And then what the board usually does is they hear a report on the results of the audit and the recommendations of the auditor and then what the department's going to do.

And then generally what we do is on a time, certain basis, whether it's three months or six months or whatever the case may be, put it on the agenda again and say, okay, this was what has been progress on the driver ed one. That one I take responsibility for. Because on that audit.

And as you well know, Senator, this is an issue that's been around for 60 years. This is a issue that 25 years ago there was a recommendation that there be rules. And it really came to light in 2022 when a resolution was introduced by, by Representative Hashimoto calling for that audit.

But as I read the findings of the. A lot of it concerned the Department of Transportation because the Department of Transportation is responsible for certification of driver instructors and so on. Now, this takes place on the school campuses. I get that.

50. 50. I mean, the DOE had their responsibility.

I get that. I get that. And so that one. Yeah, again, I take responsibility. Why we didn't put it on the agenda, but the board is in receipt of audits, both internal and external. And then the board makes a decision whether or not it rises to the level that it should be on the board agenda.

Because as you all know, many agenda, many audits, if you look at the conclusion, they tend to be sort of benign conclusions. Right. They're not, you know, things look, okay, whatever, you know, so, so that's.

But if we're spending money for these audits or for these studies or these reports, and I think it deserves, the public deserves to know instead of get put it on a shelf. Deserve to know what was the outcome. What did we spend $50,000 on it.

The auditor puts these reports.

No, I know that.

On. On. So it is publicly available.

No, but you folks aren't discussing it. There are a lot of issues on the, the driver's ed. And you Know, and not to have the auditor actually come in and present and explain why the. Why they.

Well, let me, Senator, let me, let me put it in a certain context. Yeah. Because I think one of the things that's been interesting for me after serving here for 30 years and then getting on the board, I think there are three fundamental fact differences between the boards.

And by the way, as you know, there are 15 Executive departments in the state. Not everyone has a board. In fact, a minority has a board and only two have independent boards that have the ability to hire the leadership. Okay, so you have 15 Executive departments.

Okay, so then when it comes to the board of education, part of the challenge I find compared to here was that board meets 11 times a year. That's the equivalent of the Legislature meeting two weeks. Your first two weeks in the Legislature is the equivalent of the board meeting over the course of the year.

And so I don't know how much the Legislature would accomplish in two weeks relative to what the board can accomplish in a year meeting 11 times. Second difference is the staff challenges. Each of you Senators have two year round staff. That's the equivalent of the board of education. I have 18 staff.

When I came on the board there were three staff, including one support staff, so two professional staff. So there's that staff kind of challenges as well. We don't have an sma, we don't have an lrp. We don't have the kind of capacity, much less hubrons board analysts like the money communities have. So that's a challenge as well.

And then third is the sunshine law. You know, the sunshine law I can understand the rationale for, but it's creative. It's a big challenge. I am so used to you are as well in this building. I want to know how you're going to vote on a Bill. I just go up and ask you.

I can't do that anymore. I can't go up to a board Member and say, hey, what do you think about this on an item that's going to be on the agenda that violates the sunshine.

Now when I was here chairing a Committee, I could say, zero, I'm going to defer this Bill until next Wednesday, work on it, come back. The board simply cannot do that. I have to. We have to defer for a month. Right. So we have all these challenges. Now look, it may seem as excuses. Yeah.

But I'm saying sitting where I sit now relative to where I was before, I see. Well, and then part of it is personal. You know, I've never served on A board. Maybe you have. I've never served on a board with 42,000 employees in a budget over $2.2 billion. I never have.

I served on a number of boards and commissions in the past where the budgets were so small that we could go over the postage line item, we could go over the printing line item in a budget of $2.2 billion. We don't unpack that budget page by page looking at hundreds of worksheets.

In fact, even the subject matter committees in the Legislature does not do that. The Health Committee doesn't walk through the 700 million dollar DoH budget. Well, they should. That's not my fault.

Well, that's not your call. So I'm just saying we have our challenges here. And so, I mean, you know, I have to, I don't really, I only do this Committee. I said OASA means the entire state. I don't just have doe. You have only doe. I don't have. We don't have doe. Okay.

I mean you have just the education. So if you're comparing. I'm just going to compare. And yes, you meet once a month, but you folks have the ability to meet more than once a month. Nothing stops you from calling other meetings.

Zero no, no doubt, no doubt. But let me give you a sense of that. No, I have a sense of three. Standing committees, as you well know, Finance and Human Resources and what you call Student Achievement Committee that they need surveying apart from the regular General business being. But this is a volunteer board, understand?

And we have three board Members that work full time as well.

And we know that and we ask them in the, in the confirmation.

By the way, I'm not asking for your understanding of forgiveness. I'm just saying there's such awareness, the challenges.

I want you to know that I am very much aware and we very much appreciate the volunteer nest of people serving. But we, we ask at the confirmation hearing, do you have the time? Are you willing to serve? You know how much you have to put in.

I tell them you got to raise up, roll up your sleeves. It's not 11 meeting a month. And they all, and they all agree. So I'm just saying, you know, we do go through those steps. So I appreciate what you're saying.

I could show you my calendar. I can tell them, the last six months of last year I attended 25 all day meetings, summits, conferences, whatever, cafeteria managers, meetings, whatever.

I can show you the same as well.

Okay.

Okay.

As a volunteer. Yeah. I, I participated in well over two and a half dozen conference Calls, zoom calls and whatnot. That lasted at least two hours. That's in the last six. That's not counting the six community meetings that the board does. That's not counting the record meeting.

So what are you, what are you saying? You don't want this?

I'm saying that as a volunteer board. Right. That if the expectation that it's a full time position, that is very challenging. And I think, I think all boards and commissions, 50 something boards and commissions in the state, if that was a requirement that you put in that kind of time.

As it is, it's very challenging to find people that will serve on this board.

Well, nobody said that. I asked about the audits. Two audits of whether you guys. No, no, you didn't just ask about two audits. I did. I asked about two audits.

You were inferring that why doesn't the board have a hearing? I have put on the agenda every single audit that comes before the board because you just mentioned it's tax dollars should be transparent. Well, I, you didn't just mention the two.

Okay, well I, I introduced measures that we have to hear. Every single one that we spend money on if we're going to spend the taxpayers dollars on these studies. They have a right to know what came about and what the board or whoever asked for it or who it was about resulted. Okay.

So I'm not saying they have to come 247 but to have the auditor come and present. I just asked that question whether or not you folks were aware because there were some very.

You have had the auditor come to the meeting. We didn't have him come for the sheet of Bateman audit and you didn't.

Even have the one on the driver's license. And I only raised that because like you said, not every audit will rise to that level. But in that situation there were some very scathing things in it regarding the performance of the Department and of dot.

As I mentioned earlier. Yeah. I personally take full responsibility for not scheduling the. I mean what they.

Drivers education.

Yes, yes. So you know, and the whole point.

Of this is just that as, as the board of Education, you folks are the ones that overseeing doe.

That I think you guys need to be aware doesn't necessarily mean that every one of the Members are going to be here, but they can watch the video but aware and then take that into consideration as they are deliberating or as they have the board in front of them. That would raise some questions.

And when those questions aren't raised, then it makes me wonder why not or are they even aware that this is going on? Right.

The way I look at it, though, it's a partnership. I just think whenever we have a challenge in our community, education certainly is a challenge. And if you're going to resolve it, it's going to take actually more than the Legislature, more than the board of education, more than the Executive branch.

It's going to take all the various stakeholders in our community, the business community, the philanthropic community, teachers, students and so. On and so forth. It should all be as a table. Exactly. When I look at.

Which is what we're trying to do here.

Well, that's one venue. Right. An informational briefing is one venue. But there are other things I know as well. Yes. You know, like I said, the board has sponsored six community meetings. That's another venue. The school community councils, which exist in schools. And I'm sure you all attend your school community. Yeah. This is in your district.

That's another venue. Yeah. To get a sense of what issues.

But they don't necessarily have oversight like you folks do.

Point is that there are many ways to get information. There are many ways to develop partnerships. There are many ways to collaborate issues that concern all of us. Yes, but Roy.

Yes, but Roy. But Roy, we're talking about the budget, we're talking about statutory bills and so forth on how we govern. So that there. Therein lies the difference. Okay, so yes, it is. I mean, we have that. We have that responsibility and you have a responsibility of oversight. And so if the Legislature have concerns and we.

Concerns about the budget, you've always got to be concerned because at the end of the day we make those decisions. Right. On how much money, how much budget, how many board Members is going to be on the board of education. I mean, all of those kinds of decisions are being made here.

So I think we are, you know, a little bit. The information that you gain here is very different from all the other community type meetings that we have. You know, I go to the neighborhood boards as well.

My comments in no way, shape or fashion tries to diminish the importance and the relevance of the information. No, it does.

Yeah.

Yes, I think I'm fairly aware that it's important. Should be so. But again, you are concerned in your particular case in front of the education Committee today, rightfully so. Is concerned about this particular topic. I can tell you, obviously there are the Members of the Legislature. They might be concerned about chronic absenteeism.

They might be concerned about student achievement. They might be concerned about graduation. They might be concerned about the achievement gap, particularly the Pacific Islander And Native Hawaiian students. I might be concerned about the Kayapuni program that exists in 19 schools there. Might be concerned about the learning centers that exist in 29 campuses across the state.

Everybody has concerns. Everybody has priorities. Right. And the board, in my opinion, we're serving for the last two years. The board's concerned about every. Just like business papers, you all are concerned about the high cost of living. Hawaii is number one in the country in high cost of living.

You all are concerned about the lack of affordable housing. You all are concerned about the climate change and opioid epidemic, all the issues facing the Legislature. But it's very, very difficult for an individual Legislature such as yourself to do something about everything. So you focus and you prioritize.

And does that mean to the extent that you don't care about the other issues? I don't think so, no.

And as the Chair of the Committee and as Committee Members. Yeah. We are focusing on education. And that is our responsibility, that as.

A state Senator, you care about the state.

Exactly, exactly. But again, I think you missed the sense of here, it's not just topic. It's the structural. It's the basics on whether or not the Department is able to deal with what's in front of them when they are audits and there are evidence. Well, let me. Can I please finish? Okay, I will let you.

And there's evidence brought up about the record keeping, about having information about these things. And this is what I'm raising about. How are we going to deal with these issues? How are they going to deal with it?

And not just this one project, but overall, if there are evidence going across that's weaving through everything, that these are the shortcomings that they're having. And because of that, I think that's where the Board of Education comes in to say, well, are there shortcomings?

Are there areas that is lacking that we need so that we can get to not just the CIP, but all the other issues that's out there regarding our public schools.

So I think regardless of whose priorities are, who. Whose responsibility it is to do what, the discussions that we have, the community that we bring in, the fact of the matter is, is you're the chair of the Board of Education. We are the Senate. We do what we do.

We only you can do what you can do, which is hold him accountable. So this is why it's so important for the Board of Education Members to be here, because we cannot hold him accountable. We can bring him and we can bring the superintendents, we can bring the deputy Superintendents here and we can have an info briefing.

But at the end of the day, the fate lies with you guys. And so that's why we are asking for you folks and the board of regents to be here. Because the buck stops with you. You are the one that hires and fires. You are the one that looks at the strategic plan.

You are the only one that in my opinion can hold the Department accountable in the sense of what's happening with our schools. You guys don't get the calls from the parents. We get the calls.

You guys are not the ones that have to go to the neighborhood board meetings and answer for why the chronic absenteeism, why the buses are canceled, why people are, why students are graduating with third and fourth grade reading level. We have to do it.

And so when we ask you to bring you here, when we ask you to come here, it's not because we're trying to publicly humiliate anybody. It's because we want answers, we want execution. We don't want excuses.

We don't want you to tell us how many days you spent in the calendar year going to this conference and that conference. At the end of the day, we want what you say to, to be reflected in real results, in real time results. Not you'll get back to us.

Not we got to look at the data, but that's what we hear every single time. Meanwhile, kids are graduating, not even ready to go into the workforce or into career pathways. So we have to hold you guys accountable.

So when we want you here, it's because, yeah, we do believe it's your responsibility, Roy, to be in the room. If not you, another Member.

And at the end of the day, if a boy board Member is not able to be present to hear what's happening in the room or for at the least watch the recordings, then maybe it's time to resign. Maybe it's time to look for new board Members. Because Hawaii is in a place where education is failing.

And we are going to feel that in real time, in future time, when these students start to go out to the workforce. And so this is why I want to bring it back to why we are asking you to be here. Roy, I greatly appreciate you coming in person. Thank you very much.

But to be honest, you signed up for this. I signed up for this. Nobody feels sorry for me when I have to leave here at midnight. Nobody feels sorry for me when I have to drive in traffic waking up at 4 o' clock in the morning.

So I'm sorry, but you're not going to get any kind of pity party on this side. What we want is results. And if we have to do this every single time, then we're going to do it every single time.

And if you have to be here every time, I believe that that's the passion and that's the genuineness that you want to serve our students and our education system. So I just want to make very clear here that everybody here is making a commitment and they're making a sacrifice.

But what you're not going to get from this Committee is sympathy. What you're not going to get, what you're not going to get from this Committee is, I feel so bad you're not going to get that here.

Thank you, Senator. You know, I'm not asking for the sympathy. I am, though, when you say that our education system is failing, I don't believe that's a correct statement. I do believe that we have areas to improve in 100%. We have areas that we need to improve in and we have areas that we're doing well.

I think when folks say that our education system as a whole is failing, I really believe that we have folks in the schools and the complex in the state that are working extremely hard, extremely hard, despite many different challenges.

And to say that our system is failing when we're looking at our scores, our positive trajectory over the last 20 years, that we're improving on the pandemic recovery, we're leading the country in reading and mathematics, we still have improvements 100%. I tell you, we're always looking for continuous improvement, but I don't believe that our system is failing.

We have areas to improve in most definitely, but not failing.

You guys are failing. And if you can't acknowledge that, then you're in denial. Talk to any parents in my district, talk to any educator that's teaching in the schools that are working overtime having to pay for supplies out of their own pocket.

You go talk to them, don't talk to your deputy superintendents, don't talk to the cas's, talk to the people that are on the ground. And, and right now DOE has unspent CIP funds of $2.7 billion. We have not only you have obligated CIP funds according to our records of $1 billion.

Now, you can't even come to us and give us a basic breakdown of how many construction contracts is that, how many design contracts is that, how much purchase orders is that?

Are you even factoring out, factoring in the increases, the escalation costs, the construction management, the change orders so if we can't even trust you to bring the basic data here so we can help you to help our kids.

And you're just telling me, which to me is a little insulting, if I might add, when you parade that the education is leading in the nation. So I'm forced to believe that maybe it's just my district that's failing. Maybe you guys are failing wi and you're not admitting that.

So I don't know what districts are really thriving, but according to my community, you guys are failing.

And as I shared, Senator, and we met together, right, about the Nanakuli and Waianae complex area, I shared with you the different things that are going on and the hard work that the teachers and the school leaders are doing to help move the schools forward, how we're working with community Members to help move the school forward.

That is all happening. When. When you say that we're failing, though, as an entire system throughout the state, we definitely have areas we need to improve in. I started out today when we talked about cip, that we definitely have areas we need to work on.

And we recognize that we are committed to moving forward to ensure that our system does better for our students and for our families and communities. We do. But I don't believe when we talk about, as a system, everyone is working extremely hard. Extremely. We are not. I don't believe that we are failing.

We have areas to improve in, most definitely. But as a public education system in Hawaii over the last several years, we have made gains.

Okay, well, when you are only able to complete 23 CIP projects in one year, I'm sorry, but that's a failure.

We have areas to improve in most, most definitely.

We don't have time for you guys to improve. We need execution and we need it now. We need it today. When you folks say that you have 800 contracts accumulating 592 million and they get. Our records show that you have 1 billion in obligated CIP funds.

And then the audacity to come back and ask us for more money for more CIP funds when you can't even do the work that you see that you were going to do. Now you have to reevaluate the CIP list. Okay, well, what's priority? Okay, What's a health risk? What's a safety hazard?

We already told you what it was when we asked for the CIP request. So again, you folks are making this way more complicated. And who is suffering at the end of the day? Our teachers, our principals, our admin and especially our students. So we have audits that are justifying our frustration here today.

We have parents that continually berate my office with complaint after complaint. So we have our sources that are very factual that tell us that this system, again, I'm going to continue to use this word over and over again, failing. But the only person that seems to it not be failing is you and your Administration.

So you're not taking in our consideration when we tell you the areas that you're failing in. All you do is continue to bring us maybe another column or maybe another spreadsheet or maybe another report. Maybe another executed project will be good.

Maybe more teachers in the classroom that are licensed may be getting kids to our, our schools by not canceling buses. Maybe that. Thank you, Chair.

Let me just. This is written June 13, 2025. DOE called for 12 new schools. And a decade ago it's built two. And I don't know if this is a, whose article is a, it's a, is it a Civil Beat article? I don't know. It might have been a Civil Beat article, but I think that makes a point.

You have to remember, DOE takes up 1/3 of the state budget, 1/3 annual. So again, you know, where's the efficiency? Where are areas that we can streamline? We cannot sustain that kind of funding as we go forward. As the Federal Government cuts back, how are we going to Fund some of these things that's required of us?

So we really have to start looking at streamlining on being more effective and being accountable. We have to hold people accountable. Because in the private sector, when you don't, when you don't, you don't accomplish what you're supposed to, they fire you. But not in, not in government, we don't.

And so we are trying our best to be able to take care, especially our students in our public schools, because they are our future. And if we're not going to be able to deliver the kind of education.

And when you say failing, I've been to conferences where our country is far behind other countries, and I think I shared that PowerPoint with you on how we're behind China and we're behind all these other countries, we're running far behind. So when you say you're leading the nation, our nation is far behind everybody else.

So I think we have to take that also into consideration on where we are on the spectrum. And it's troubling. And you're right. There are many areas in which you can improve on. But if you are the parent of a child that has failed, then you are failing. Right.

If they are failing, then you have somewhere somebody's failed that child. So it's relative when, when I'm sure Senator talks about failing. So. But we do, we do know that there are many, many hard working people in our public schools, state, at our university, in our agencies. Yes, many.

And we have those that maybe are not doing what they're supposed to be doing. And that's where we need to really look at and be accountable. And the audits show us, if you read the audit, it shows us that there are a lot of incompetence going on. And it's sad to point that out.

And I know I'm probably going to get headlines about me saying some of this stuff, but how do we get, how do we get change? How do we get people to take these things seriously and let's do something about it, not just tell me, oh, this is the way we've been doing all these years.

This is according to the books. Forget the books. Let's make changes if we need changes. We cannot do the same thing over and over again and expect to have a different result. Right?

100%. And we are committed to improvement, as I shared earlier when we started, that we recognize the areas of deficiency that we work that need to be improved.

And as the leadership in facilities has started in the last couple of years, we have did the assessment, the analysis and we are moving forward and we're putting the systems in place. And so I shared that when we started, we're committed to continuing to do that.

Superintendent, I hear you and I've been hearing you, but it doesn't match up to what's happening. And especially when I see stuff going on in my schools, in my district and we're warning you and telling you this is not a good decision, that it's like ignored. Oh well, you know, they deserve a chance. A chance what?

To continue to fail? A chance what, so that the students at that point in time is going to be at a detriment? No. I mean. There'S got to be some hard decisions that's got to be made. It's not like the same before. You know, we're just going to go along to get along. It's not going to happen.

Let me ask you this. Do you think it's okay that seniors in high school graduate with a fourth grade reading level?

I don't believe. Senator, that is not okay.

It's not okay. So that's what's happening and it's happening on your watch. It happened Last year, It's happening the year before. It'll probably happen this year and many years to come. So this is why the pressure is on.

Because the longer that you folks stay talking, meeting, discussing, finding things to be very inconvenient, kids are graduating with that fourth grade reading level. I really want that to hit because the detriment, it's not acceptable. But it's happening and it's happening on your watch. And I told you this graduating, I.

Told you the people that are in position that are allowing this to happen. But I told you the people that are in position that are allowing this to happen. And it's happening on your watch. And the more you continue to allow these people to, to be in that position, it's on you now.

And we will continue to put the pressure on you because you're talking that we're leading. We're not leading in anything, maybe in illiteracy, but we're definitely not leading the nation in anything.

So when I say that and you acknowledge it's unacceptable for kids to graduate, a 12th grader in high school is graduating with a 4th grade reading level. Okay, that should really start to have you trigger changes in your Department.

I will reach out to you that. Are allowing this to happen. Let's talk about what, what you just alleged. We have talked about this.

We have talked about this, Keith. And until the people that are in the position that are tolerating this and allowing this to happen. It will be this way every single time, Keith. And I don't want it to be.

All you need to do is start making some real decisions to have real results that can reflect our schools in real time. I just got a call from a parent whose kids is special need that the teacher did not show up and then another parent who also is in special needs that they switched the teachers.

You can't do that with children that have special needs. You can't disrupt the environment. So again, this is all happening on your watch.

So Senator, I will take a look into that definitely. And each situation is unique and different. I'm not sure what the circumstances are related around the two examples that you just gave, but let's meet. I can find out about those two specific examples.

Okay, but what are you going to do about it?

I don't need to meet with you. Just tell me what you're going to do about it. I wouldn't know what to do about it. Exactly, exactly. I know the specifics of the situation.

I just told you the specifics. You don't need to meet with me. I told it. It's on the record. Everybody heard it. In this room watching, everybody heard it. What are you going to do about it? That's the only thing I need you to do. You don't have to tell me, just do it.

I need to know who's a student. I need to know what the situation was and I definitely will address it. I need that information though if not, I wouldn't know where to start.

Yeah, but Superintendent, I'm sorry, I have to chime in. Yes, Chair. I've been, I've been dealing with you from Jewel and you knew the specifics, you know everything. We've met and met and met and we weren't able to solve it.

We weren't able to make the decision and we finally came to a point and I'm talking about Kai Wai. You finally came to a point in December that you know we're letting the fourth grade. But you folks put obstacle against obstacle and obstacle about canceling a nine year program.

So I'm just saying just because we meet with you and you look into it, but you don't make the decision, you don't pull the trigger.

Senator, that respectfully, that program has been re implemented.

Reimplemplated. Not in the original form it was in.

It's only for the fourth grade after all the damage was done and after the whole area got all back with weeds and so forth and everything that was done for nine years and the CAS who approved it all nine years, all of a sudden they want to cancel the program and they canceled it without any kind of reason why.

And then when they gave me the reason, it was a false reason because there was no such policy. And the CAS had their nerve to tell me there was a policy when that policy wasn't even relevant. What they think I'm not going to look into the policy.

Nope, we believe you will look into it, Senator. And that's all we did. Right. Look, we took your concern, we looked.

Into it and then you put another obstacle in front of me and then.

Another program is re implemented and we look forward to working together with you.

How many months was that it took? So I'm just saying that I'm not fully aware of the situation she brought in. I can only say my situation.

And I'm going through another situation with you on that again, hoping that you're going to make a right decision and you're going to do something about it and not just look into it. Thank you. Okay. We had hoped that we would get into more detailed stuff at this point.

But I think for now, unless there's any other questions that you have, we thank you for being here and hope that the next meeting will be more productive as we move forward because we are going to have many measures and again when measures come up, it's probably going to be as a knee jerk reaction to some of the things that Members felt that is not being accomplished.

So when these measures come up, we'll be able to probably discuss some of these things because I'm sure there's going to be a CIP bill, I'm sure there's going to be a bill in governance.

There's going to be all of these bills to address areas in which legislators and again other legislators that not on this Committee have come and talked to me about the concerns that I've been raising in this meeting. So this is not isolated to just a few of us and I think you folks know that.

But you know, thank you very much. Thank you. I know you have a hard job and so hopefully we will be able to do some make some tough decisions and make things happen and we look.

Forward to continuing to work with the Legislature. Senator, thank you.

Thank you. we are adjourned.