Senate Standing Committee on Agriculture and Environment

Industry Administrator, Dr. Isaac Maeda. Aquaculture and Livestock Support Manager, Todd Lo. Quality Assurance Division Administrator, Dr. Leo Obaldo. Commodities Branch Manager, Keith Otsuko. Our Measurement Standards Branch, Richard Cohen. I didn't see Rick here. Yeah. Okay. And then our Plant Pest Control Branch Manager, Dr. Han Lau. Pesticides Branch Manager, Esther Weishardt, Plant Quarantine Manager, Jonathan Hole.

Christopher Kishimoto, our Plant Quarantine Inspection and Compliance Officer. Administrative Executive Specialist, Carol Okada. GIS Manager, Craig Cluett. Joey Oka, our Food Safety Specialist. And finally, June Tuliao, our Hemp Specialist.

Okay, you want to just go straight to table six?

Table six. Okay. Yeah.

Oh, and Sharon was not being able to make it and she extends her apologies for not being able to attend today. Table six.

Maybe you can just explain the reason for the increases. There's only two, right? The ceiling increases?

Yeah, the ceiling increases. Okay, so the animal quarantine special fund increase is because we need to do—we've been kind of developing electronic system for bringing in the dogs and the cats for the rabies quarantine program. This is to kind of finalize that and do the final upgrades for that computer program.

Okay. The second one?

And then the second one is to—our pesticides branch has been getting additional staffing because of the Act 236. So, we're looking for additional space. They're kind of tight right now, so, we want—asking for increase in the ceiling to fund those office renovations.

Okay, and then the third one is just federal ceiling.

Yeah, it's just a federal ceiling on the brown tree snake program.

And that's because what?

I think that was an increase in the funding. Right?

May I speak to Jonathan?

Yeah.

Good morning, chairs, vice chairs, members of the Committee. Jonathan Ho, Plant Quarantine Branch Manager. Yeah, so the ceiling is being increased because it's been told to us that this is likely the last year that we're going to be getting the federal grant funding for that program.

And how much is the total grant?

We haven't received it yet, but generally about between 350 to $400,000 a year.

That's for the prevention of the brown tree?

Yeah. So, that's inspections 24 hours a day, 365 trapping detector dog. Yeah. And rapid response efforts and training.

Is that because we don't have the problem anymore?

So, thankfully, we do not have a brown tree snake. And you know that that has a lot to do with not just us, but our federal partners and, and local partners in Guam. The Administration, I think is—the Federal Administration is I think looking at kind of minimizing things.

So, they're, they're, they want to direct all the funds only to be used in Guam, not for use in Hawaii.

That's okay. Snakes get on the plane from Guam and they miss the inspections, then we have to deal with it ourselves at our own costs at the airports. That's what's going to happen. And the airlines will end up paying for that service, I'm sure.

Oh, after this year though, right?

Yes. So, this year we, we should be having the funds and then, but yeah, so the, the federal folks do do—so, the federal inspections are still going to occur. That's not going to stop. So, it, it's the, the, they're not funding the, the secondary inspection basically, which is the state portion.

And sometimes they do miss flights, which is very rare, but—and we will still be working with those partners regardless of whether the, we're getting the federal grant because obviously we're not—we don't want brown tree snakes to be entered into the state.

In a sense, not safe. But I think the flights from Guam is only at TKI Airport. I don't think the Guam flights go direct into the, those like Maui and Kauai, so, but then.

Yeah, so, we inspect flights not just from Guam. So, we'll also do like Australia, Saipan, other places that either have palm tree snakes which are, you know, naturally occurring or may have been introduced. And I want to say last year, I think there were four flights that did not come to Honolulu.

I think there was like two in Maui and one on Kauai or something like that. So, those are like private jets, for example, not necessarily commercial flights, but we do inspect those as well.

How many snakes have you found?

The last time a snake was found is in like the 90s. So, the, so the, so the program obviously has been effective. But again, just because we haven't found a snake doesn't mean we should stop checking.

Well, you never know too because if you know what they're doing is they're hijacking and they might have just fallen off into the ocean somewhere. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Senator.

Since you, you guys are preparing, you guys already know that you guys are not going to get the federal grant. What are you guys doing to talk to our delegates to emphasize the Administration for the federal side to let them know how important it is to continue this program.

Is anybody from your guys' department reaching out to our delegates in the federal, you know...you know any of them?

I think we, we're going to be going up shortly with the Lieutenant Governor to meet with USDA and we're going to let him, we can let them know at that time that our concerns about that.

Okay, thank you, Chair, thank you. Thank you.

Go ahead.

It's a supplemental budget hearing, just, but following up on the, the AG forms, the declaration forms for coming in. Last two flights I've been on has been electronic and I don't know if it has it rolled out completely and is there enough funding to do it and how is that being administered? I realize this is operational, but.

Yeah. So, all the flights, all the domestic flights, are now under the program, and we used existing funds to create the system and, and maintain it. We're still using existing budgeted funds to continue it.

And right now, I don't believe that we're going to need more funding to continue using the system as it is because it's pretty straightforward. If we're going to do a large scale, I guess, revamp of the system, that may require some funding with the DOT or the Go Hawaii app.

You know, there's some, a funneling of folks to that app through the, through the end of the AG form. And obviously, we're still working with DOT and HTA to make sure all of that stuff is seamless. But yeah, we don't expect any, you know, major needs of funding to maintain that program.

Who's reviewing the data? Is the funding in place to be sure that you fill out the form but then it's online so it's going somewhere to make sure?

Yeah, it's coming directly to the Department.

But who's reviewing it?

...Branch staff.

Okay, so all day, every day, because there's a lot of flights that come?

Yes. Yeah. So, so we're tied into the OAG system. So, that's the system that DOT uses for all of the flights. So, the, the system—so, each, each individual passenger fills out deck digitally and the staff have, for all intents and purposes, instantaneous access to the data.

The—basically what ends up happening is people declare it goes into a bucket, which we can see and the airlines provide us the passenger count, crew count, origin, things like that.

And what happens is once they do that, it—all the passengers who are on that particular flight, they get pulled from the bucket and then the staff can then can then go through it.

But at some data center. Because when we went to New Zealand, we actually saw that they actually have a room full of computers, full of staff. So, who, who's—what he's asking—who is actually sitting at a desk reviewing all that in real time?

Our staff.

Where?

Wherever we have a computer.

How many people?

So, there's no actual designated area? People are just like wherever they're at.

Yes. So, so for example, in Honolulu, there, there's an office. So, they go into the office, they log into the computer. They can—they know which flights are coming. They can check everything.

So, should be seen—should seem to be more formalized than so loose. Like when we went to go see the New Zealand one, they were way more formalized, way more professional. Not loosey goosey.

Because we're talking, Chair, we're talking biosecurity and it's fine if we're collecting it. It's a step forward. But your comments, you said they can review it as opposed to they are reviewing it. My concern is stuff is going to fall through the cracks, which we know it does anyway. But that's why—and why Chair is talking about formal.

Yeah. So, so, specifically, for...arrival, like, we don't have a night shift yet, but we're using overtime to check every flight that comes in at the airport.

We give you quite a bit of positions.

Statewide, I think it's 17, I believe. That's with the old ones and the new ones.

What happened to the biosecurity academy that was supposed to be established with Leeward? Carol.

We're having discussions with the Leeward Chancellor and we're talking about them at first starting off with this, following us through our, so that we can prepare the students so that I think before we start the curriculum.

I'm sure they're already having biosecurity classes, but we're trying to formalize a biosecurity campus so we have a set curriculum of what we need.

Well, we got to expedite that because DOCARE has an academy. Right. You go through with HCC so you get hired by DOCARE. If you pass the academy within probation, you get hired. You don't pass, you don't get hired. Yeah.

So, it was supposed to duplicate what DOCARE already does so that DHRD doesn't give us a hard time.

Right.

But it's already done. There's a template for it. Leeward is willing to do it. So we got to expedite that. Right? Because if not, how are you going to fill these positions?

Yeah. So what we're also doing is there seems to be two needs. One is just for the inspector line, the actual ones who wear the badge, carry out the inspections due to violations and then there's another need which is actually on the ground doing the response work.

And so when we asked the Chancellor because one of his main things was that we need to be able to have careers for these students coming out, not just jobs. And so what we're aiming to do is create a higher level technician that the salary is then a career.

And we talked to him about that and he was amenable to that. And so what we were going to be pursuing because there's actually two needs is go that two routes with them.

And so only if that student wants to go further and become a full on inspector, then they need additional time on a fourth year or added experience. But otherwise we can get them on board with as a research your guys vacancies.

I mean you have like pages of vacancies so you guys got to figure out how you're going to start filling them.

Also if you know you're going to try to make a perfect system for a career. Right now we need jobs so you need to start to get them in there and while they're on the job then they can decide if they're going. To be a career.

If you're going to wait till you have a whole curriculum for a career, we're never going to fill.

Right. We have a number of 89 day hires that don't quite meet the requirements but they are interested. So we have them in the field.

But even if you don't finalize the full academy, just get the CTE certificate so that they can do dual credit early college.

Okay.

Like, get it going. Get something going. Because if not, why we gave you guys all these positions. If you're not going to fill them.

You can use the money.

You know, And I mean, there's interest to make sure that this is 247.

So do you have a hurricane on every island? Do you have a curriculum that you're giving to the high school so that they are aware of the needs?

No, no. What's supposed to happen is they're supposed to work with Leeward. Leeward will establish the curriculum. They DOE will then work off Leeward's curriculum to feed into Leeward, but it has to start with the community colleges. So what's the CTE certificate? Then? DOE can link it.

And Leeward is also agreeable to have the classes that have prevented inspectors from being hired, which is like classes on entomology. UH Manoa doesn't have it every. Every semester is very limiting. So they're agreeing to have that class that. So a student can just that.

But this has been changing all these MQs, right, because some of them require just a bachelor's degree and nothing specific.

So you could have a journalism bachelor's degree like some people at this table, and work at Department of Ag and have no AG experience versus if you have a CTE AG certificate, but yet you cannot get the job because you don't have the bachelor's Right. That I don't know.

DHRD and DOA got to really clean this up. And I know lots of employees are like, hey, well, I had to get my bachelor's. Well, too bad. This is a new. We got to figure out how we're going to fill these positions and hire local people.

Right.

So what's the anticipated date to get this on board?

You know, they're willing. So it's a matter of we have the money to enter into the contract that starts it off. So the beginning is they're just trying to reach out to who has all the curriculums available and then to come up with a set one. It's as far as, what's your target date? This third quarter.

So we're trying to move on it now.

Are you asking for money? No, no, we have it started to. You have the money?

No, they have the monies from the previous bill.

We have the Fund from the previous bill. It was a matter of where our resources are. And right now there's so many battles because the pests keep on moving and yet we have to keep ongoing operations. So right now Jonathan is.

But his primary function in the hiring is in settling all the higher level positions as you go. Fives and fours, then it goes back into. Yeah, but I don't think you have.

To work go do it. You have to multitask because if not, we're in tough times. We're going to take the money. Right. So a lot of these vacancies, you know, like lots of Members, they don't want, they don't want to put the hold on the tax breaks. Right.

And no, not one Department cut, not one Department said, zero, we're going to give up special funds. Now one Department says we're going to give up cash balances. So we haven't even cut any budget yet. We're going to take away tax breaks from, from the public.

So if you guys aren't ready and you're, and you're not going to be able to spend it so that you can do these things, then we got to look at where we're going to grab money so that we can preserve whatever tax breaks we can for the public.

Okay.

Question. So the program, no matter you have the resources, you have the monies you need to fill the vacancies, the personnel. But it seems like I'm hearing that you're supposed to be organizing with the university, right? So that means that is the university or are they willing to accept the program? Yeah, yeah.

So we have. They're primarily doing our diagnostics right now. They're working on research for like the two line spittle, crb, lfa.

But we're talking about classes, right?

We haven't gone.

Academy has a number of classes. Yeah, yeah. And then you get a certificate or that can work in doc here. Yeah. So they're trying to get ready.

These guys are the slope guys. Yeah, Libra is ready. These guys got to hurry up because lever's been waiting. Right. And a lot of it is the Director has not corresponded and who's not here. So we, we could be picking on the wrong person, but Leroy's been waiting.

No, for that.

Okay, thank you.

Sure. Can I follow up on the forms? So what is the percentage of participation of the number of passengers coming in and actually answering?

Right now it averages, it fluctuates depending on the airline, but we're averaging a little over 72 to 75%.

So what's happening with the 25%? What are you guys doing about that?

So it's very similar to the, with.

It's very similar to, with the, the paper form. We need good cause and to, to, to detain and, and, and, and hold them for the inspections.

Can I just say, you neglected to do it. You were required to do it. You didn't do it. You get a fine.

Yeah, good.

Cause a lot of do it.

Yeah. The, the, the, the checking is I. To do a consistent check on, on all the passengers in a uniform manner across the state is the biggest challenge in that we don't have the staff to be able to do that uniform.

Zero, that's what we're talking about. That Leeward Academy. We're talking about making sure we can do 247365.

Yeah, no, but we're also talking about when you say that, zero, yeah, they're reviewing the forms and that I have that concern because when do you review the forms? Because even the paper forms, even though we wrote down I have a snake. Nobody called you, you know, nobody called you.

So when are they reviewing it and, and are they comparing it with the number of people that if you don't.

Take it seriously, that 72% is going to go down to 65 and then to 55 and then to 50 because they know nobody's checking, nobody's getting a fine. Nothing is happening. If you start finding people, the number is going to start going up.

Well, the other problem is, and I don't know, have you traveled and have you filled out the form online?

And you were able to do it easily?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay. Because you know what? Once you check in, the form pops up, but if you don't do it right then and there, it's very hard to get the form. And we had that problem.

And the House Member that traveled with me and we just came back on Tuesday, he couldn't get the form and I couldn't get the form. So it's really hard.

The. So when the system was created, we worked with the airlines to allow them to disseminate the form in the best way that they felt was effective for their systems and their clientele.

And we've heard the same issues in that each airline does it slightly differently and which creates, I think, to some extent, some of the experience issues. And. We haven't quite figured out, I guess, a way to like, mandate how they're going to run their operations per se.

But isn't that part of the process? I mean, why, why have this if the airlines are not going to be doing it correctly or doing it so that it happens and you guys know that is going on, but you sat there. I don't know what you guys are doing about it.

Yeah, we need, we need to work on it.

And we could withhold airport improvement funds until the airlines comply, you know, and.

The passengers are all sitting there waiting to board. Wouldn't that be a good time for them to fill in the form? And when they board some of the airlines.

That's what, that's how they're doing it. And some are doing it in required for all airlines.

And some airlines have the code when you're sitting there and they'll announce it, but they don't announce it complete all the time. So people coming in and out, you know, when you last minute get on the plane, they don't do it and they don't have anything on the plane to do it.

So if you don't do it right, well, United, if you don't do it right, when you check in, the form goes away and you can't access it unless you get to the airline and they have a code. And then if you're running late or you don't, you don't remember, then you don't do it.

So a lot of people are not doing it even though you try to do it.

The flight attendants, they don't announce this on the plane. It depends on the airline. Some they do it only on the.

Airlines because you don't have Internet on the plane.

So do they have a. Can you have a paper form that you fill out in case you don't have. You can't do it on the plane.

They're not.

The goal was to completely eliminate the paper forms. So.

But the past. The problem is there's nobody enforcing. There's nobody looking and tweaking the system. There's nobody. I mean, and I say this because it seems that way from what you're saying, that is actually working with the airlines consistently to shop this program. It's like, okay, we put it in, whatever, we get 70%, thank you very much.

So the staff. So one of the best things about the.

You should fix it. Stop trying to justify the status quo. It's not going to work and we're going to be in circles. We're going to keep asking questions. You're going to keep giving us average or substandard answers. Go back and go fix.

Means that. We'Re missing a lot of data because I'm sure not everybody is filling it out. Because if the forms are not popping up, they're not gonna.

Well, have you guys talked to the Airlines Committee. Are you talking to Kurt at airports? I mean, they all came to with us on the site visit. So we. Everybody knows what the I. What the ideal should be. We've all seen it. We all went to the mail facility. We know what should happen.

I'm not sure why it's not happening now that we've seen what we should be doing.

That's true.

Because you're not checking. If not, why are we giving all this money, rushing to do all of this stuff and then you guys cannot.

Deliver and then how. So right now the main reason that they're trying, the airlines are trying to.

Comply is not can you guys do it or not? Because if you cannot, this goes back to the other question of just creating a whole new Department of the Environment, which, Which is on the table. And then they take biosecurity. So if you cannot do it, then we just taking it.

We'll take it away from you and give it to somebody else. Department of Health already has Vector control, so we just maybe expand that. So you either got to be serious and you guys are going to do it and do it well, or we got to figure something out. But status quo isn't working.

I have another question. So when you get these electronic forms, the survey on the back, does that come to you? That's about hta.

No, we don't have access to that.

So how does that work? So when the electronic form gets filled out, half the form goes to you and the other half goes directly to DBAID or hta.

There's a link. There's a link that after you fill out our form, you hit the link and then it'll take you to the. The tourism questionnaire.

Okay. So we'd have to ask tourism what, what. How many people are actually taking the link and answering that. Okay, thank you.

Okay. Any other questions?

Just one more for clarity. I know in the beginning, but since the launch of the akamai program, that. 25 or so percent, nobody got no repercussion, no nothing.

Yeah, yeah. Why is that though?

The only repercussion is if there isn't sufficient percentage of. Of electronic is that they hold the plane so the passengers cannot get off the plane.

We have to change the law so that people can get fined.

There is a current ability to get fined data. Why aren't you doing it? They haven't started that citation.

So the question is. So you, you should have the data from the passenger manifest, right? And then you compare it. Completed the form. Right. Use AI to figure it out. And then you find the rest. We do not have access to a passenger manifest. So we should change the law so you get access to it.

Thought you said you did. You can compare.

We get a passenger count from the airlines that we compare against.

Can we change the lawsuit that you collect data for every ticket that's purchased Coming.

That's where kind of going back to what Sensei Kim. Nobody says is you guys got to tell us what the. What legally you need so that you can do your job.

Yeah. So I think we get the count and then we know how many filled it out. And we're comparing those two but we don't know that we cannot link each one. So then come with the bill to get the data that you need.

That's what we're telling you.

If not already, try to work on MOA between airports, the airport Committee and doa. And if they say no, at least you got to try something. If not, people are not going to take it serious.

I think it goes back to the. Idea that we should probably contract it out. It seems like it's going to get stuck and we're not knowing how many. If our data of the incoming passengers are the same as what we're saying. We have so many visitors this year because I don't think people are filling out the forms.

Well, he's saying 72% hard. So it's the other 25 work out.

I think it's too much burdensome. It's taking.

No, it's either you give it to these guys when they do it or we do pursue the environment and biosecurity like other places.

That's our problem. Okay. Every time we have a Department that can't do the job, we're gonna contract out. Contract out. Then why have employees? Why have a Department.

Let's teach contract all the work.

That's why there needs to be follow up. And that's where we are today.

We contracted them.

Okay. Other questions?

Yeah, so when people bring animals on the airplane, they're not checked to see if they had rabies or they have some certification.

The animals are all checked. By whom? I never seen our animal quarantine branch. They got to go to physical infection. Yeah. When they land. Yeah.

But they're. If they don't have the proper. Let me finish. Okay. There are other people on the airplane that have. Have animals. So if the person on the plane has an animal that has rabies, how do we know it's not being contracted by another animal on the plane?

No. Don't you guys all have to go quarantine.

But that's when they land, not while they. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Is this. Yeah, but that's a different.

That's Dr. Maya on top of that, when you. When.

Excuse me, Let them finish the first question.

Yeah, all animals, like Dean was saying, are inspected before they get on the plane. No, after they arrive.

Yeah. Okay, but after they get off the plane and you find they have rabies, what other animals that were on the plane do you contact?

They're all quarantined though, right?

Well, everything that comes in has to meet certain requirements to enter this state. And as far as if an animal has rabies or some other disease, it's not something that's going to be evident immediately. Which is why we have the pre entry requirements to minimize the risk of them having rabies.

That's why the vaccination, the testing, the microchip identification, if you don't have those requirements, then the animal doesn't qualify for release and it ends up in quarantine. So if you're saying, well, what about the other animal on the plane with the one that has rabies?

If the other animal did have the requirements done properly with the vaccination, testing, microchip identification, health certification, et cetera, then the risk of them contracting is very low.

That's how we can do airport release now, because we prepare the animals before they come in with all of those requirements so that the risk of them contracting it, even if they're coming in from an area that has rabies, is minimal.

Thank you.

Yes. And every passenger who has an animal is already registered because when you sign in to register for your ticket, and it does say that if you have animals. So every, every, every airlines do have that data. So you, you're correct, you know that there's so many animals on the plane and, and the data that you need.

There is a potential for somebody to not register or something to slip by in a sense. But that's where the ag deck comes in as a secondary backup. Yeah. Because we, we get notified if there's an animal that's on top of there.

And there are some airlines that do charge. Yeah. If you're bringing animals. I know Southwest doesn't or inter island it. I guess it depends on the size of the animal. But, but that's what I understand and I know because I have friends that take their animals. But they have to register when they buy the tickets.

Yeah, correct.

So in order to bring an animal on the plane, do they have to be A service animal.

I'm sorry, I did.

In order to bring an animal on the plane to Hawaii, do they have to, you know, in the passenger car. Passenger area, do they have to be a service animal on.

In the cabin?

Yes.

Here's the kind of little bit confusing about that. The Department of Transportation has guidelines for animals carried on top of aircraft, and they allow service animals, but they also allow emotional support animals on the plane. An emotional support animal is not a service animal under 88.

So while they're allowed on the plane, when they come and they hit the island, they do not qualify as a service animal for the process of importing. So we would view them like we would a pet animal.

I'm noticing more and more animals on the plane and they don't look like service animals. And I don't even know they look like emotional animals as well or emotional. And so people are just. I've been told that the rules for a service animal is very lax. So anybody can go in and say it's a service animal.

And they considered service. Something like that.

It's federal.

Yeah, it's federal regulations that we don't have control on that above.

Okay.

Okay. So you guys talking about contracts? I'm not sure if Senator already knows this, but almost half your budget is contracts. So 33 million is contracts already. So pretty soon you're going to have more contract money than staff money. So what's the staff doing?

Yeah, what's the justification for that?

So is it just going to be that everyone's going to manage contracts or is the Department going to do work.

As we staff up? We should be pulling back more work within the Department as we stand up. Our ability to do this is something that kind of. But we're relatively new in the process. Even with the electronic deck form. We just wrote it out in March.

Every airline is doing it differently until we can kind of get everybody on the same page and then we can kind of do the enforcement a little bit better. But I think, yeah, if we're going to check whether 100% is done, we're going to need legislation to get those manifest and then we can do the cross check.

A lot of These things are 33.

Million in contract work. Contracts are table 14. So that's page 40. Yeah.

Those are ongoing contracts. Yeah, the Department. Yeah. And it's because some of it is expertise that we do not have and that we're contracting out on research and stuff.

How do you guys evaluate the different branches as far as park progress? Because the variance reports don't really show progress.

Yeah, I think most of them, we're just monitoring the contract as to whether.

They'Re completed into its aquaculture. Ever since I've been here, we've been talking about aquaculture. And I don't know if I don't think aquaculture has grown.

Zero yeah, we're currently so like, we.

Have all the commodities, we all these different people we're managing. And then it's like we're shrinking eggs. What's. I don't understand why, why have the. The whole branch or division of aquaculture and what's. Who's doing the regulating versus the economic development?

Yeah, the regulating is kind of done by our plant quarantine branch and.

Culture branch development branch because we haven't expanded aquaculture at all.

We had some bills last year in a vacuum.

Yeah, we have a bill this year. It's not about bills. Bills doesn't grow in industry. We haven't had new aquaculture ag parks. How many new aquaculture farmers do we have? The problem is going back to what some of the Senators are saying is you teach aquaculture at high school, but then where do you become an aquaculture farmer?

Yeah, I think some of it is that we're. We're kind of conducting a survey right now. We just contracted that out again. But we want to know where. What the industry needs to grow.

No, what. We've talked about these goals of growing agriculture, reducing imports. What about our goals to ensure that happens and we can reconcile that with industry, but we haven't grown aquaculture at all.

I, I think overall we, the state got to provide more incentives for the industry, even for agriculture.

But you guys should be coming in like, have you looked at assets where we should be buying land to develop aquaculture egg parks? All the aquaculture in Kahuku is no longer there because it's now US Fish and Wildlife.

Yeah.

And nobody came in to say, okay, we, these guys are all going to lose their farms. We need new aquaculture ag land so we can move the farmers there. That never happened. So now you've just lost all those farmers. And some people think, just keep funding NELHA. But NELHA is not supposed to be an ag agency.

That's you guys. But it's not proactive enough. So I'm not sure what. And I'm just using that as one example. And we can go over each one. And we haven't grown much.

Yeah. And as part of Solita staffing, we had very little staffing to do it. But I agree with you that strategically planning, we're not looking toward growing it and identifying sites that would be suitable for that.

I think a lot of times the Department has been, the staffing has been so short that everybody is dealing, you know, like on a day to day basis. They're just surviving. And I think a lot of times the division, the entire Department actually has not been visioning as to where we got to be.

Yeah, so these have to be reconciled with ADC and I think Environment, Department of Health. So whatever you cannot do, if there's a vacuum, that doesn't mean we don't have, we don't need it. So is that something like marketing?

Does that go over to ADC so that you guys can actually focus on regulation and testing and research instead of land management? Does that go over to ADC because they can acquire land versus you guys doing it?

But we have to revisit this because the ability to produce more ag out of Department of Aggressive has not really met expectation.

The other thing is, if you don't identify some of the sites, how are you going to employ people that are not willing to go wherever your sites are? So I think that would be one.

Of the first things you need to evaluate like there should be. I'm not sure how you guys evaluate. I forgot which Department came in and said that they don't even do evaluations. Well, I know you asked one and they said they don't even do evaluations of staff.

But we need benchmarks yearly to figure out where are we at.

Yeah, I agree.

I think, you know, it's something we got to start looking proactively if we're going to start standing up agriculture, the Department in itself, because this was such a tight year, we're looking at combining all the development functions into one branch so that there's synergy among all of them so that they can work together to support agriculture.

We even were envisioning Ag Liaison that could help guide the farmers into what resources we can offer them to start the farm and develop or move forward. Because we wanted to move. When we looked at the data, a lot of the small farms cannot move the needle. It would be large scale agriculture.

And last year we put in the bill for the agriculture loan program to increase the amount, the loan amounts and everything to encourage large scale agriculture, which gets economies and scale and everything. The problem is finding suitable land and everything else.

If the state really is serious about moving agriculture and aquaculture, we're going to be asking for big money. You know what I mean?

Yeah, but the question is. Is the Department serious? Because if the Department is serious, then the Legislature can look at the serious proposals. But if you're waiting for us to be serious first, then why do we need you? Senator Kim? Yeah. Yeah.

On page 31 in the middle, you have AGR 151, $100,000 contract. This started in July 12016. Goes to 9-30-21. Our Hawaii farm Bureau solicit proposals for research projects to establish food safety procedures for Hawaii farmers. It cost us $300,000 to solicit proposals. And what happened? It just says midterm progress. But this is so old.

Who's managing that contract? Don't all speak up at once. Whose contract is that? Which branch is that in?

AGR 151.

151. Warren, bruise.

Leo, this is just an example of. You have many contracts and that one just red light blinking for me.

Leo Baldo, Quality Assurance Division Administrator. You're asking question on AGR 151.

Yeah. Why do you need 300,000 just to send out proposals?

Why is it so old?

Yeah, so this is a proposal basically when the Produce Safety Rule was just coming out.

And when was that?

Way back in early 20162015. So the money. This is before my time, but the money basically was given to the Hawaii Farm Bureau to solicit proposals to establish guidelines.

Done. It's been nine years.

So the final report was basically submitted. But there is a final invoice that we're waiting from Farm Bureau to give us. Yeah. So they're revising.

Why isn't the invoice going? Okay.

So there's a final invoice.

Better get there today.

Well, that's not even the challenges, Senator. We had to. No cost extension. We finalized. We finished the final report. We're just working with the Department to. Close out the contract. All the. All the projects.

But this kind of stuff, right. You guys should be looking at it. Hey, this is too long. So what? You should be more proactive in trying to close it.

It's four years.

So. Yeah, we've been proactive. We've been sending this communication, but we haven't at this point received a revised final invoice.

But can we get a breakdown? I don't understand how it would cost. 300,000. 400,000 actually was appropriated. It was. 300,000 was spent. 100,000 is pending your invoice, I guess just to solicit proposals. And how many proposals did we get? And did we go out for anything? I mean, what was the return on investment on this?

There are several proposals. Let me think. So there's money given to Norther EBP to do some.

Wait, is that all in the report?

Yeah, it's one big report. So. And there's money given.

Can we see this report that they turned in? They did. 21.

Yeah, we can provide it to you.

That was when the report was turned in. Four years ago, Five years ago.

Around that time.

And I mean, we did have several.

Okay.

Extension because things change in that time. If you haven't acted on it, wouldn't there be changes?

You're going to close your. You can't just leave things lagging.

Yeah, acted on it. And so everything changed. So now whatever they got proposals is moved.

It's a solicitation of proposals. But did you get proposals? Did you Actually execute on those.

Just a little background here. So the money basically is given to Hawaii Farm Bureau to do the solicitation.

Answer her question. Yeah. Did you actually get proposals?

Yes.

What did you do? Did you execute on the proposals?

Yeah. Farm Bureau basically, you know, did all the solicitation and they get proposals and they give the money to those approved proposals.

We need a final report on this.

And we did have a final report. Yeah. So she's just asking proposals.

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, you got a final report here, but I want to see what proposals were actually done and what was the result of that.

We can give you the proposal, right? Yeah, we have a copy. The project, including the projects that were. Yeah, the project that was executed. And what's happened with those projects?

They are. They're all included in that report.

Senator Richards, thank you.

The Chair has said this is going to be a hard financial year when we're looking at that. You talk about your vacancy list and we talked about this last year as a Department, combining some of those positions to bump the. The payroll so you can fill these positions. Because I know that's another complaint.

We talked about this last year. Has that been done? Are you guys looking to get that done? Because again, we are here to help solve some of these problems. If we have to change something in the law, that's why we are here. But if we have a massive vacancy, what are we doing to address that?

And have we combined positions? Have we sought to do the paperwork to combine positions?

I wouldn't have to.

Everybody's looking around, so I'm going to guess. No.

I don't think we've. We've done that. Okay. Right now we're just trying to fill the existing positions, but we haven't really found too much problems. It's certain positions, like veterinarians that are very difficult to hire. We. We had people come in and made officer offers and the pay was just too low.

But for the bulk of it, I think it's just the. We. We are getting applicants and it hasn't been such a so much of a pay issue for. For those.

But in some cases. Do you. In some cases it is the vet. Could you just do vet tech? Oh, I mean, wouldn't that be better than not nobody.

We need the veterinary for some of these positions that the veterinarians are in. We need a capability of them to do certain things which are only in. Within a veterinary veterinarian, a licensed veterinary.

But you have your veterinary assistant, got, Veterinary program manager, got. I mean, you got plenty of this veterinary medical officer. I mean you guys got quite a bit of physicians that are vacant. So my feeling is could you at least take some people who have some qualifications to fill some. Some of them.

Because Windward Community College has a vet tech program. Right. And if you guys could work with them, maybe they could create a pipeline. But just doing nothing.

We've actually talked to Windward Community College about their veterinary technicians and. And then what? I mean we don't get anybody. Right. I mean we do get some referrals from them for our positions, but for a veterinarian we need a licensed veterinarian.

That's fine. It's just you guys got to be more proactive in trying to figure this out because if not, if we're not going to fill it.

Yeah.

And you're going to wait for the perfect person, then lots of these don't even have an expected field date. If you're not going to fill them, then we might as well take them back.

Yeah, it's not a perfect. We're not waiting for a perfect person. Believe me. We've interviewed and like, like Dean has mentioned, there's some veterinarians that we offer positions to, but relocation and pay and salary and everything else just. They can't do it.

Which comes back to combining physicians to get that done.

And I, I appreciate Dr. Ma, what you're saying because we've had this conversation before, but we've got to, as the chair is saying, we got to find the solution and it's a hard financial time now, so let's get after it otherwise you're going to lose the funding on it.

Yeah, we went, we actually met with D Herd too, with Claire and we met with five of the D Herd people from. Is that classification? Yeah. And this was specifically to dealing with our vacancies and our veterinarians and veterinary related type of positions and livestock inspectors.

So we are, you know, because part of that involves also the mean inspection and trying to get positions to operate that program. And so we are working with. You heard. And we're not kind of just not doing anything. We are aware of it and it is a problem.

So what's the timeline though? As far as. I mean we can't just be like it's a problem. I'm gonna let this thing linger.

I gotta interview again. So we'll see. But.

If you're not going to fill it within the next year, then we might as well take it. And when you actually can fill it, then we'll Fund it again. I mean that's where we're at because so far from hearing the Members they want to they I think they're really reluctant on the.

On freezing any type of tax breaks that were given. So that means we have to figure out where we're going to find the money. Yeah. And if positions are not going to be filled and there's money sitting there, that's one option for us.

So you're either gonna pursue it and we can preserve it or if you're not going to pursue it because you don't have a timeline, then that's something we got to look at taking. No, we're trying to fill it this year. Yeah. Well I mean we got.

We gotta have supple mind against the budget so hopefully you guys hear the message.

Just a couple of questions since we're talking about the vets reason why I brought this up to Senator Richards. Yeah we have a great tech program.

What are we doing to invest in getting actually of course here on island because we have a lot of kids in my district we have beautiful humane society but they have no place to go to school. They don't have to go to the continent.

Well W has a vet tech program. They have a vet program.

Yeah. So that's why I have to set the vet tech to be. What they are looking for is veterinarians. Right. So if let's say go take that Windward they're going to be a tech all in life there's going to be.

Are you guys working with the colleges to try to find But Senator Dela Cruz always talk about the pathways because in my. In my community in in the Campbell I gave Campbell for example they're interested they're probably going to go to the tech program but after that where they're going to go.

Yeah. So this question we should ask Windward because Winward that's what we've been asking is Windward partner with other universities so that they have a. When you graduate from the vet program how can you continue so that you can actually be a vet? Because Hawaii short vets.

Yes.

Both for the ag side, Dr. Mehta side and the pet side. Yes.

And this is something we've discussed and I've discussed this with Dr. Maeda as well. Nationally and internationally we're short of vets and so this is not a problem.

So I can appreciate the fact of why they're having trouble hiring vets but that's why I asked so let's combine some positions or whatever because you have the people but you couldn't didn't have.

The payroll and this, this is kind of serious stuff. Yeah, we're talking about like the quarantine. We thought if we're going to scale up security, you know, but not other than that. But the commodities with pork and beef you need the inspection. I mean you need lots of stuff. So food safe.

I mean I'm sure AG but you got to keep it going. You guys got to get going.

Sorry. Table 14 on page 26, the top item marketing. This was something that your chair had introduced which was a part of putting commercial ads to try to recruit fill vacancies, those kinds of things.

So that I, I, I'm noticing not only by your presentation but by the discussion here today that the choke point continues to be Department of Agriculture.

And the reason that I say that is because lever community College that's willing to implement a program, you have the HEL program that is Department of Labor that is willing to pay to have whether it's high school students or college students to learn with the potential of a long term position.

And so there, there, there's a few elements to what you folks are saying as far as vacancies, but it seems like the state is giving everything we've given you potential programs with of education, we've given, you know, a whole division, commercial markets, you know, and so on and so forth.

So the point that I'm trying to make is that DOA or Department of AG is coming to the ledge and continuing to ask for more, whether it be positions, whether it be funding, whether it be ideas. But I don't hear you folks taking any accountability for why we're at the point that we're at now.

There was a statement that was made about zero, you know, if the state wants to move on this then you know, you have to be, we have to be willing to invest, which I believe that we've invest tens of millions of dollars year after year. We have pages $33 million in contracts going out.

You folks have pages of vacancies that are happening and to this gentleman's point about we're not able to hire but they're applying. So if the reason for them, for you not filling the vacancies is because they don't want to relocate or because of the salaries, that stuff is all on the website.

So they know the location is in Hawaii, they know what the salary is.

If they're willing to fill out the application to go through the interview process, something is falling between the cracks and I have a hard time believing that somebody is going to take the time to go through the website, fill out the application, go to the interview and say, oh, you know what?

I just found out that the salary is X amount of dollars or that I have to relocate.

So there's something that's missing here, and I believe it's the Department, because now the discussion is, should we impose fines on people that are not following the process where you folks have the data, but you don't even have the manpower to impose any kinds of fines or any kinds of consequences or any kinds of regulations.

So here we are trying to pitch all of these ideas where the discussion, if you think of how massive this is, we are willing to impose fines on the public if they don't comply. So what happens when we do that? And you folks, again, are left with the data? Where do we go from there?

You don't have the staffing, you don't have the wherewithal to. Encourage participants to be a part of these programs. So here we are, you folks are saying, we don't have the staffing, we don't have the vacancy. We're giving Anthropologie Marketing Group a quarter of a million dollars. So what have we gotten out of that?

What have we gotten when we're over here, you know, with Leeward Community College, with Windward Community College, with all of these incentives, and yet you folks still come here and you sit here and say, we need more. We need more incentives. So.

So with all of discussion here today, I don't hear Department of Ag taking any accountability because it sounds like the buck stops with you, so.

Well, as far as vacancies, we are making progress. We was at 149. We're now down to 116. So it's not like we're not doing any. We're trying everything we possibly can, including doing anthology contracts, to let people know that we have jobs out there. I agree we should be moving more into the training thing.

And we got to. But we still need to work with other departments like DHRD to accept that, that training is acceptable to them for the position.

Yeah, but that's more operational things, right? Working with D Herd and the minimum qualifications. But what I'm talking about is Leeward Community College. You have these programs ready to go, and the leg seems to be with Department of Agriculture.

So all of the operational things, the internal things, all that stuff, I understand that that takes a while, but you have been given an opportunity to collaborate with Department of Education, which. That's where the recruiting. That's where the best place to recruit candidates and you folks seem to be slow to come to the table.

I can respond to the veterinarian situation that you mentioned about applicants that go through the process but then decide not to take it. It's not that they're saying that they didn't realize the salary was what was supposed to.

What they're saying is, is that after they thought about it more in depth to relocate their family and what have you, they didn't feel that that was going to be adequate. I mean, I can only take for what they're telling me. Right. So this is the story that we're hearing.

So whether or not it's, you know, something that we, we want to take at face value or there's something else that's hidden there, that's basically the story that I'm getting.

But if that's going to be the trend and the consistent answer going back to Senator Richards point, then change the system. So we get a different reaction. Yeah. Double the positions or combine positions. Look at the different salary. Like we can't keep doing the same thing, get the same response and then we're at the same place. Yeah.

What, what can we do so we can fix these problems?

Yeah. And if that's the biggest objection, then aggressively recruit locally. Aggressively recruit locally.

You know, locally. What we're doing is when we recruit locally and we do do it regressively, but it's, it's, it's a competition between private sector and if you look at local veterinarians in general, private sector, usually small, small animal practice, companion animal, and the salaries for those types of positions are quite high.

And it is nationally, actually, quite high.

Okay, then that should be your request. Yeah. So then increase it.

What do you have to do? So you're competitive.

Yeah.

Increase the salary or, or if, if the request.

Well. It'S not so easy because it's complicated what we have to do with.

D Herd, then we should just take the money. If you're, if it's not. If it's so hard for you and you cannot get it done, then we might as well take the positions and the money.

Yeah. If you do that, that it just makes it worse.

But you can, even if it's sitting there, you're not doing anything about it anyway.

We are trying as much as we can to get the salaries increased through de Herd, but it's not something that we can just go ahead and establish.

Have you come in to us at all for the increase in salaries? Have you come into us?

I didn't know that there was an option as far as increasing salary above listed. No.

I mean we put the money. So who you gonna ask?

I mean you can four.

Yeah, we can get that. But as far as us being able to offer certain rates for, you know, different types of positions, it's not something that we can just do.

You got to come in and you have to reorganize or re. What do you get?

Housing. Want to introduce a new Bill?

At least ask for it. I mean if we say no, then at least you could say we try. But if you don't even let us know or ask.

Okay.

I don't know if. Yeah, I can't speak to the definite. As far as what the HR. Just a question.

What does your vet do? Or do you have these vet assistants so that at least the work can be done by other kinds of the scope of work it can do.

Some of the.

Some of the work that they do has to be done by a license accredited. What she's talking about is the sum of the work that doesn't have to be by a licensed person. Yeah, that's what we have. That way that should be the tech.

So at least some of the work is getting done at a salary that you know you have. And at least we can work with Windward to find some of those positions.

Yeah, actually all of our veterinary assistant positions are. Well, we got one that's currently going to be filled but it's not been a problem to feel veterinary assistance. It's a problem with the veterinarians.

Well, can't you at least the people in those positions you start training them up so that you might be able to grow your own, but at least start the work that they need to have done.

They do train them and try to encourage them but ultimately they got to go through vet school and get licensed. So that's where the hang up is the cost and expense for them to do that.

Okay. We need a major reorg of Department of Ed because this isn't working. We really gotta figure this out. Thanks to Favela, so.

Zero my gosh. So I've been here about eight years. Yeah. Senator De La Cruz been asking and now I'm hearing about the aquaculture. The land. Yeah, but you telling us that we got to be serious in the game when eight years now. Eight years. We still don't have accountability on how much land we need to be sustainable.

We still don't have that. Okay, now we lost the aquaculture with Senator Del Cruz. Did anybody in the Department is a custodian. Did anybody in the parking lot Know that we're going to lose that land to come back to us to see Senator Del say all the time, secure ag land. Right.

So nobody thought to secure the agriculture, the aquaculture that we had that we lost all those farmers. Did you guys drive down that side of the island? Do you guys look on empty areas? There's even drive over the area that you guys go. Because I'm telling you right now, you think it's funny? You like smile?

You think it's fun? No, no, because you know why? Because I was out there. The thing is, what I'm saying is you guys still don't have the answer, but you're telling the Senators here, okay, that we gotta put skin in the game. We gotta be more serious and we want it done.

We're just as serious as a heart attack. You know what's listening to anybody here? We are serious.

If, if you serious, I'll put together a plan.

And we can't unless you put it together and give it to us. Have you done that? We'll do that.

I just. One, one quick comment. I'm new. I'm Andrew Robinson. I'm the acting AG Loan Administrator. Specifically on aquaculture. There's sometimes challenges. We've given six loans over the past like 20 or 30 years in aquaculture. They've all defaulted. So you know, we're trying our best.

Where are those farmers? On whose land?

They're all over the island. So whose land?

Who owns the land?

I'd have to look the specific.

So the point is, most farmers are not going to be able to buy or lease lands from the private sector.

We get it. Yeah.

Which is why the state has to acquire land and provide affordable leases. That has not occurred. We don't have one aquaculture ag park. We, I, I get that part. So if you can get that part, then you can at least offer more leases to aquaculture farmers. We haven't done that. I don't know what the aquaculture is doing.

We need to. If not the pipelines at the DOE for aquaculture farmers or aquaponics, there's no end game. There's. There's a cliff and then there's where they're going to have a career. So if we can't get land from the private sector, then the state has to provide it to meet our goals. I get that piece.

The loan thing is separate from them going and looking for aquaculture ag land that we can acquire.

I just wanted to make the one comment that specifically in terms of loans, there is a lot of Demand we have $5 million loan on each year. We've turned down like 6 to $10 million already this year. So there are some areas where we're succeeding. I just wanted to point out the aquaculture is a challenge.

Just becomes maybe just a business model.

How many loans we have if you don't have aquaculture ag land for new farmers.

Yeah, well, that's something we can work on for sure. Thank you.

Dean. So you know, we've given the, the goal and you're talking about coming up with the plan. Yeah, you know, as far as 30% local food by 2030. Right. 50% by 2050. All right, so it's 2026 now. Where are we now in terms of reaching that goal? And it's number one.

Number two is what are the resources that you guys need to actually reach that goal? We got four years away from 30%. Where are we now? Unfortunately, we still don't have the data. We only have a few people. Wait a minute, you don't have any, a clue where we are in terms of the percentage of local food?

We can provide stats on it. I don't know how reliable the data actually is. When I look at it doesn't seem to be that accurate as far as producing the thing. So it was like without the baseline, we cannot figure out how much we're actually going to be to double local food production.

So you don't know where we are now? Correct. You have a question?

I do, I have another, but I'm just following. I can't believe it. You know, you got to know where you're going and if you don't have a baseline, how you can even do that? So all these years you didn't get a baseline. All these years you're not. Okay, well let me ask questions.

Some of that might be above his pay grade. He has a boss that's not here that really should be answering his questions.

So let me go back to contracts. And you know, I'm looking at this because I'm really a stickler about watching how we spend our money and the taxpayers dollars and sometimes we put things in that is nice to have we don't really need while people, you know, go starving, can't pay bills.

So here you have a contract, AGR171, $200,000 university wide to increase consumption of Hawaii fruits and vegetables to promote nutrition. So, and that was, and the report was due on 3312025. There's $240,000 left on this contract. Final report came in. So did we increase the consumption of fruits and vegetables.

We had to spend $200,000 or $160,000 to tell people they should eat more fruits and vegetables. That make a use of our money for the taxpayers monies.

Yeah, I think we can get back to you on what, what the actual report actually said on that.

But think about it in a time, I mean even in good times, should we just, these government just be spending money to spend and give contracts out? I mean increasing the vet people. I don't know how you did it.

Did you just put ads in the paper or did you put TV commercials telling people to eat their fruits and vegetables?

Senator, we'll get back to you with that information.

But even the information is one thing I want to know what's the policy? What's the plan? I mean just spend money or should we, should we look at this stuff and say, you know what, this doesn't make sense. So why are we spending this kind of money?

I mean I take this $200,000 and give people money to go buy food, go buy vegetables. You know.

So regarding doubling the food production, there is multiple.

What are you talking implementation.

To increase consumption of Hawaii foods and vegetables. And this is to the University of Hawaii. I don't know what did they come up with some idea that's going to make people eat more vegetables and fruits?

We will definitely get back to you on that and I, I'll go ahead and get that information to you guys.

I'm missing my point. My point is before you even dish out the money from the people hard earned dollars, make sure that these are his reports and studies that is going to make a dent and do something and not just pay them out.

I hear you.

There's no return on investment. What I don't know, I got to beat up my kid to eat his fruits and vegetables, you know, every day eat your fruits and vessel $200,000.

The problem is Cedric, you're going to say something about doubling the local food production.

Yes. There is multiple statues that require for the doubling of food production. One of it is within state government in terms of the university DOE and all of those things. So a lot of the challenges on that part has been the procurement issue.

One of the solutions DAB has brought to the table is that we could be potentially the escrow or pass through for the farmers to be able to sell directly to DAB to get the food into our state systems. And that's something that we're proposing this year.

And regarding land for Department of Ag, one of our Big asks this year for the CIP side is the 15 million to open up 150 acres in Cuna.

That's a proposal that would potentially allow for 24 or more acres from five parcels, 5 to 8 acres each, that would allow for these large scale operations, which Deputy mentioned earlier, is the way forward in terms of getting to that benchmark of doubling the food production.

And so I think what might have been misconstrued was that Deputy was explaining in terms of the investment for opening these properties up. That's what STAB needs to be able to start the construction process, to start the infrastructure that is needed to be able to put these lands into production for ag.

And I think that's the big request we have this year in challenging ourselves to create more access to land.

And then on the Ag loans part, we do have that request to increase our selling from 5 million to 15 million to be able to issue out capital for farmers that are struggling and new farmers that want to get involved into that industry.

I think with the combination of those things, we can reach the goals that we're setting out for. And I hear the need to be proactive. And in regards to the hiring process, there is, there has been the rapid hiring proposals that our ASO has been putting together.

We have been putting in 8090 hires to fill these vacancies to get our Department to be able to be more functional. And Operation Hire Hawaii has also been helpful in securing these positions as well. So there is efforts going into getting us to where we need to be it.

It has been slower than we wanted to, but as Deputy mentioned as well, D Herd is a part of that discussion in terms of the minimum minimal qualifications.

But internally we also have been working on a reorg to restructure the Department from inside so that it flows better and that it's more strategic in how we approach the services we provide.

The Ag liaison is a perfect example to be able to ensure that when farmers are and interested parties are coming to the Department, we have a person that can deal with them directly and educate them to the fullest extent possible so they can make the best informed decision whether to get in the industry.

So these are all thoughts. Where's the action to show you're moving in that direction?

We need to know the percentage. Okay. Correct. We set this into stone. So 30%, 2026. Let us know what the percentage is now so we know how, how real this is.

I believe we have a report. I just can't locate it right now, but I'll get you back that Information.

Do you. Do you work with the. Sorry.

Okay. With regards to Upolu Road, North Kohala, you're responsible for the new project that we started from 192016 when during my. My district we created at the water. The water project to open up farms in North Kohala on our lands managed by you folks. And with the help of Carty Chang and DLNR.

Because it was a project that we needed to actually look for the water system which we got and we did get free water system from. From the feds. We. Until today I think we even. It cost us $10 million that WHAM. And our Legislature here in the Senate provided we got the completion.

We did everything without you folks. But we. I mean so when we had to. From the usgs, well that we had. You folks had to sign on because you were the managing agency. DLNR helped us with the engineering part.

So we got the monies, we put the water system in, we gave you guys the project and we said all you got to do is provide egg lots. And that's what the motivation for the creation of. For North Kohala to expand our ag industry. Because the farmers were already waiting.

Because you all know that the Kohala ditch fell. And so here the farmers were all ready. They were happy, they saw activity going. We got the infrastructure paid for and then it's sitting there until today. We're saying we talk to the chair. It's in your hands.

All you guys had to do was either resubdivide the area to parcel the land areas, create 5 acre lots, 20 acre lots. And there's the windmill farm down the street. There's some egg farms already there. And they're all waiting to connect to the water system.

And we all know we don't provide, we don't manage water in our agencies. And they're waiting. A group is waiting to create the co op to manage the water so that they can have the activities. But we haven't heard anything. But we got the water tanks. We got two water tanks already that we provided.

It's kind of sitting there. So what's happening to that project? And here you're trying to create egg farms. Egg lots somewhere. I mean I'm glad you're doing something on Oahu, but here we're sitting down waiting. And exactly what the chair is saying, where's our farm egg lots?

Because the last time we did farm egg lots was probably back in the 70s or the 80s. We have not done any egg lots. Farm egg lots of. From doa. And that's what the cherry is banking on. Where are we going with these areas?

To create egg lots so that the farmers out there could say, hey, we can, you know, let's apply for this egg lots that's available. We know that you can create large egg farm farm lots. Nobody wants 100 acres. But just as an example, we decided we're going to create egg lots for farmers.

And we went out, we got the money, we got the engineering done, and Carly did his job. We got water systems going, and then we gave it to you.

Okay. You guys should follow up.

Yeah, it's saving.

Franco, Department of Agriculture.

And thanks. Thanks for sticking out because you got some historical background. Been wonderful working with you.

All right. Thank you. The water system I haven't received a report for. Name, please. Brian Cow, Department of Agriculture Water and Land from DLNR. I do not believe the system has been turned over to us yet. Last I saw there was a 20261. I want to say early summer completion date for the turnover.

What about the subdivision and CPR in.

I not familiar with that. At. At.

Because the water doesn't get turned over right now you still can do the part. She's talking about making sure that you can issue awards for lots.

It's where the dairy was. So the dairy on the bottom. You know that dairy and that. That parcel with USGS had all those wells that they developed in. In the 80s after the plantation closed. We were lucky because USGS says they will give government without payment for any USGS wells that's sitting there.

So when we did the final study that we gave you guys a copy, we paid for the study and there's lots and Tim knows lots of water in North Kohala. And we identified all these and we found USGS. Well, so long. But anyway, you guys already got. And it was signed by your previous Director, the transfer.

And I think we did it by Bill too, because we had to transfer from DLNR to doa. And you already got the land and the project because you do a had to sign the commitment letter to accept the USGS wells.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think you know that.

Yeah. Okay. So Cedric, I think her point though is you guys are asking for more money for new lots, which everyone is supportive of, but you didn't finish the old ones.

And this is something that we. We were hoping to create for our people. Yeah.

How long does that takes? Realistically? I. That's thing I seen was that the construction was still underway as of last year. So as Brian said. Okay.

But you know DHL, they give away paper leases like it's I free. So why. Why aren't you guys at least doing that part where you're asking people who are interested so that you can award leases?

So I. The Department does have a list of interested farmers and we do make those offers to those farmers on the list so we can put the request out. You guys subdivide or cpr?

That would be a Brian question. Yeah. I'd have to look into the property. That was okay. That was. I will get back. Yeah. In the meantime, if you slept on.

It when the Administration came on, because everything Was done. You had the contracts and we paid for the last contract to develop the two water tanks. And am I understanding the water tanks team, can you go that's in your district team. The water change is supposed to be done already, so. And then you got water. Everybody's waiting.

Yeah, no, I'll definitely. Last thing I would say on that is, Senator, one of the things I'm encouraging as Senators and legislators is if you have interested folks that want to get on those properties that they should. You make sure find out where. Yeah.

And then the. Because once you guys are. Are subdividing it or cpring it, then she can. They, they can announce, hey, these proposed, you know, you can respond to the RFP or.

Excuse me. There were Committee meetings and I think Brian, you, you had. We had representatives from your, your agencies, we had community meetings. All of the projects that we already had planned.

Every time that we had a new something completed so that we could prepare it for the communities and we had hearings, we had meetings and we had lots of people there waiting to see. They want to sign up. I mean that's. And it's documented.

So there's interest.

Yes, absolutely. All we need to do is for you to decide now to form a co op because again, like we say, you don't manage water system. So the plan at that time was to get the interest.

And there were some people already offering to create this co op because we're saying whoever needs to apply for a farm lot, they got to pay the infrastructure because we already created the major infrastructure. So if a farmer.

So all you got to do is subdivide those air that lots of create this go out to the community, sees who. Who's applying to create this co op. So the co op manages the water system. Yeah. And with the farmers.

So when they, when you already have your club plan, 5 acres, 10 acres, you have your applications, they want to, they want the water system, then they got to apply to the co op and then they. The managing of the water system, infrastructure policy and the plans, they gotta pay for it.

And people, I mean they were all, they're all waiting.

Yeah. And that makes sense for ag loan because if the farmer needs the loan to connect to the water system.

Makes sense. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that.

Yeah. Do you have any idea of what percentage of local agriculture meets the needs of the local communities, including our schools and universities?

Not at the moment. We can get that information back to you, Senator.

We try.