Senate Standing Committee on Health and Human Services

Calling the Committee on Health and Human Services informational briefing today on October 28. 10:00 a.m. regarding the Federal shutdown and the impacts of to state benefits, specifically health and Human services benefits that are being affected by the shutdown.

So first up, we have Department of Human Services Scott Murashige presenting what is happening with SNAP and hopefully Governor's plan since the shutdown is lasting far longer than we have expected. Oh, and by the way, I really do want to thank all the presenters. I know that this was last minute.

We all were hoping that the shutdown would end by now and that's the reason why we have scheduled it for as late as it is because we were hoping that there would have been no need for this informational briefing.

But this is the, this is the Senate's version really of hoping that the public will be educated beyond the press releases, which are usually very short as to what the Governor is thinking, what the actual effects are. I want the public to know that the people here have been working very hard.

They have been super stressed because the shutdown keeps lasting longer than they are, that I actually did not want them to present unless it was absolutely necessary because I know it is taking from their duties to help the people to prepare for this agenda. And with that, Scott Murashige.

Please identify yourself, your position and let us know what's happening.

Good morning Chair Sam Buenaventura. So I'm Scott Morishige. I'm the Division Administrator for the Benefit Employment and Support Services Division at the Hawai' I Department of Human Services. I'm joined here this morning by our leadership by Deputy Director Joseph Campos and from our division staff, Assistant Division Administrator Scott Nakasone and SNAP Program Administrator Jeanette Hayes.

Unfortunately, our Director Ryan Yamane is currently traveling, but he sends his regrets. So I'm sharing on my screen a short presentation that we put together and I just wanted to start off with a short overview regarding our division.

So the Benefit Employment and Support Services Division, or besd, is the largest DHS division by position count in the Department. We have nearly 700 staff positions located in 19 offices throughout the state. That includes nearly 400 eligibility workers and clerical staff that are responsible to process SNAP and financial assistance benefits.

BESI processing centers that do financial SNAP eligibility serve over 85,000 families or an estimated 166,000 individuals annually. So I wanted to start because the focus of today's informational briefing is about the effects of the ongoing Federal Government shutdown on SNAP. To just begin by explaining what SNAP is. So SNAP stands for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.

It's a federal program that provides monthly benefits to low income households to help them purchase food. So this program is formerly known as Food Snaps and back in the day it was provided through physical snaps that would be distributed to clients. Today the benefits are issued through an electronic benefits transfer card, EBT card.

It's like a debit card for recipients that they can use to buy groceries at authorized retailers. SNAP is a very heavily regulated federal program and recipients must meet income and other program requirements to qualify. It has a broad impact across the State of Hawaii.

And I just wanted to provide a short breakdown for those who may be watching. Basically what the household count is in the various counties throughout the state. But in general, the program like I mentioned, as of the month of September served 86,229 households. That's 168,947 individuals.

The average household size was a little under two or about two people. Average benefit per person is about $346.83 per month. And on a monthly basis in September, we issued $50,496,674 just that month in SNAP benefits, our 100% federal funded.

So the important thing to note is on average basis the monthly SNAP benefit is between 50 to 60 million. So it's a big financial impact that serves, you know, many, many households throughout the community. The majority of households receiving SNAP are in the city and County of Honolulu that has 50,729 households.

And then that's followed by Hawaii county with 21,654 households. And then you can see the breakdowns from Maui, Molokai, Lanai. Inquire on the screen. In the interest of time, I'm not going to go into detail, but we did want to share that information for those who are watching.

To get to the focus of today's informational briefing, the USDA did inform states that SNAP benefits would be suspended effective November 1st. As you know, the federal shutdown began on October 1st. On October 10th, the US Department of Agriculture that oversees the program directed states to hold sending our files for November SNAP benefits to our EBT vendor.

So normally we would send files up as people become approved for November to the EBT vendor and they asked us to hold the transmission of those files on October 10th. On October 24th, last week, Friday, USDA directed states to suspend the SNAP November benefit effective November 12025.

In response, DHS immediately issued a news release last week, Friday. That same day, they informed the public the suspension of benefits and posted information regarding the impact of the Federal Government shutdown on snap, as well as a list of questions.

And in fact, we had actually posted that notice a few days in advance because we knew this is something that would impact many people across the community and we've been monitoring this situation very closely since the start with shutdown.

Just a short interruption. Just want to introduce Senator Keohokalole who also has joined us today. Please proceed. Thank you.

So just some key points regarding the impact of the shutdown at SNAP. So what the suspension means is as of November 1st, we will not be issuing November SNAP benefits out. This means that the federal shutdown continues. SNAP participants will not receive SNAP benefits as they normally would in November on the first, third and fifth.

Most households receive them on the third and fifth, depending on their last name. We do have some households that also receive them on the 1st of the month through direct deposit. SNAP benefits will be suspended again until the federal shutdown ends. The important thing to note is all SNAP benefits are suspended.

Cash benefits for people receiving TANF, Temporary Aid for Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, General Assistance or Age to Aid, Blind and disabled benefits or AABD will not be affected. So cash benefits will still go out on participants cards. Just the November SNAP benefit will not.

The other thing is that if a SNAP participant had SNAP benefits on their EPT card from October or a prior month, these benefits, this balance will not be affected and participants should still be able to use those benefits and access them for use at retailers.

The other thing we want people to know is just because the SNAP benefits for November are suspended, DHS is not closed. We remain open to the public and we understand that we have to continue processing SNAP applications and recertifications as normal.

So what this means is that if SNAP participants have an interview, they should keep their interview for their application or recertification. If we've requested them to submit documents, they need to continue following through with that.

And if they're required to report mandatory changes such as addition of a household Member, change in address or change in income, they should continue to do so. One thing I think I want to note is this shutdown occurs in the context of other federal impacts on on the SNAP program.

I think it's important to note those so people just better understand the overall impact to SNAP participants. So there's a couple other changes we want people to be aware of. The first is on October 1st we have an annual cost of living adjustment for SNAP.

For most other communities this would mean that the maximum SNAP allotment or the maximum benefit would go up due to cost of living.

But in Hawaii for the past three years is actually meant a reduction because in Federal fiscal year 2022, the Federal Government made an error in calculating the thrifty food plan amount for Hawaii upon which the benefits are based. So they actually overpaid in one year benefits.

They made the benefit amount too high and to correct for that they have to reduce it by an average of $8 per person per month moving forward. So that's just one thing to note that this is the third consecutive year that we've had to make this reduction.

And that's sort of the context that this suspension or federal shutdown is happening in. The other thing is that there are changes, two sets of changes coming out effective November 1st that the Department is also required to roll out.

And these are changes related to the one big beautiful Bill Act, OABBA or HR1 that made changes regarding able bodied adult work requirements as well as impacting eligibility for non citizens for snap. So the Department, like I said, we're still continue to require to continue processing applications and cases as normal.

So we will be moving forward with implementing these changes as well. And I wanted to go into just briefly talking about the able bodied adult work requirements because they are being rolled out at the same time.

So this is a set of requirements that SNAP has always had, but in the past it's been limited for adults age 18 to 54. The Oabba makes some key changes to these work requirements.

And I guess just to provide some context, what this is is in order for a household to receive SNAP beyond three months, they have to comply with these able bodied adult work requirements.

And and if they don't comply within that three month period, the household actually cannot reapply for snap for 36 months or three years until they become in compliance. And so like I mentioned, these requirements currently apply for able bodied adults without dependent children age 18 to 54.

The change that the OABBA makes is that expands these requirements to now apply to adults age 5055 to 64.

So to some of our kupuna who are able bodied, to adults and households with a dependent child age 14 and older, as well as for people experiencing homelessness, veterans and youth age 18 to 24 that are transitioning from foster care.

Those last three groups were previously covered by exception that essentially exempted them from the able bodied adult work requirements, but now they're subject to them.

Well as the kupuna and those in the households with children age 14 and older, one thing we just want everyone to know is, although it sounds very scary and it is a big change, this does not go into effect all at once for everybody. As households come up for their interviews either at time of application or recertification.

That is when we will talk to the to the individuals and assess whether they are able bodied, whether they're subject to these work requirements. Then we would inform them of the requirement and then send them a notice so that they're aware.

You also have a range of activities that you can do in order to meet the work participation requirements. It's not necessarily paid employment, but you could do paid employment including self employment.

You could participate with a jobs program such as our SNAP Employment and Training program or the American Job Centers, or you can volunteer with a nonprofit organization or a government office. So we have information about the able bodied adult work requirements on our DHS website because we're trying to centralize information all in one place for the public.

The other big change resulting from the OABBA is changes to SNAP eligibility for non citizens. The main thing here to know is there was a broader range of non citizens per prior to this that were eligible for SNAP, including refugees, asylees, certain parolees.

Effective November 1, there are only three categories of non citizen households that will still be eligible for SNAP I.e. lawful permanent residents, individuals present in the US who based on the Compact of Free Association or COFA residents, as well as Cuban or Haitian entrance.

So all other categories of non citizens that were previously eligible would now be considered ineligible.

And two other things to note is just that ineligible non citizens must still be reported as part of a household applying or during the household's recertification and the income of the ineligible non citizen will be counted in full towards the household's total total income without any exclusion.

So it's just again information about this is also on the DHS website. I know the focus today is on the shutdown, but I did want to mention these two other changes because I think that context which the shutdown is occurring is very important.

Now as far as the overall summary of everything I've shared today and I know it's a lot of information but just to recap so because of the shutdown and the directive from the usda, November SNAP benefits will not be issued if the Federal Government shutdown continues.

However, when the shutdown ends, our understanding is the benefits would be paid to individuals at that time. Cash benefits will not be impacted. So it is only November SNAP benefits are impacted by this. SNAP benefits from prior months will still be accessible to SNAP participants on their EBT card.

And also the Department is continuing to process applications and cases as normal and clients should keep interviews. Follow up with submitting any documents requested. Because the Department is still processing cases, we will still implement changes effective November 1st related to the OBBBA, primarily those changes regarding able bodied adult work requirements and non citizen eligibility.

And then lastly, Department, I think there have been some questions about what efforts we're making to provide assistance to the community and I apologize for not having a specific slide on this and I think it might have inadvertently disappeared as I was finalizing it. So I apologize if that happened.

But essentially there's two things that the Department is doing to be able to respond to the federal shutdown. One is that we are working with the Hawaii Food Bank and I know you'll be hearing from them a little bit later, but we know that they're experiencing really unprecedented increase in demand for food.

So we're working to identify $2 million in state funding and quickly working to execute a contract with the Hawaii Food Bank. So we're in that process now and we've been in regular communication with them about what their needs are. The second is Governor Green has been working with our Department leadership on a coordinated response to shutdown.

And as part of this, our Department stood up by looking at what resources were available to us to respond. So the Department, in addition to overseeing snap, we also oversee the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Program, or TANF.

And we do have funding available through TANF that we're using to stand up this new program called the Hawaii Relief Program that will provide assistance primarily focus on housing for families with dependent children under 300% of the federal poverty level.

The Hawaii Relief Program, although the focus is on housing, it's still helping people who would otherwise receive SNAP because we know housing is the biggest cost that most households have. By providing assistance with that, you're freeing up their resources so that they are able to meet their food needs.

So we're looking at the assistance putting out more broadly and also looking at the impact on, you know, workers who are furloughed who might be struggling with high housing costs and high utility costs. I know, you know, there's probably a lot of questions about that program.

More information will be shared later this week regarding the details of the Hawaii Relief Program. But I just wanted to provide the broad strokes for now.

And again, you know, Department, I think the main thing we want people to know is if you have any questions, you want information on what's going on, we've centralized all the information on our website. We're providing updates there regularly as they come.

And you know, we're working very hard with the governor's office and the rest of the Administration to stand up resources to help people because we know the impact is very, very broad.

And I know I've gone through everything quickly, but, you know, if there are any questions I'm available, my contact information is on the screen and me and my staff are here to answer any other questions you may have. But thank you, Chair, and Senator Keahokolole, for the time to be able to brief you this morning.

Okay. Stick around. We have a number of SNAP questions. Senator Keohokalole, you first.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Scott. Are you, is the Administration at the point that you can give us the broad strokes numbers on the Hawaii Relief Program?

So I know what the Governor has announced is that we have $100 million and temporary assistance Assistance for Needy Families funding. I think beyond that more details are to come later this week when they make them more.

And where is the 100 million coming from from?

So from the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program, we have what's commonly referred to as a TANF Reserve. So TANF comes as a block grant and the balance, basically the grant that's not spent on benefits goes into Reserve Fund. We are working to obligate that out into community and spend it out in large chunks.

One example of how we did that is after the Maui wildfires a few years ago, we established a similar Maui Relief TANF program. And then with this program also, we're taking another large chunk out that $100.0 million to put it into the community to address the need to kind of mitigate the impacts on local families.

So it looks like according to the AP two days ago, because I was trying to find a specific statement from the Trump Administration on this SNAP situation.

So the best I could find was an AP article from two days ago that quoted the USDA's position on using their SNAP contingency fee as not feasible because they didn't consider this an emergency.

Or is there have we gotten any information from the feds as to whether our utilization of the TANF funds could be impacted in the same way? Basically, if the feds are saying no using contingency money, have we have for SNAP, have we had any indication from the feds that the TANF money will be treated?

We have consulted with the Administration for Children and Families. There's actually a separate branch of Federal Government that oversees tanf, but we did consult with them before standing up a similar Maui LEAF TANF program. And we understand this is within, you know, the acceptable uses of TANF. TANF is a program that has regulation as well.

But basically, as long as you're within the four primary purposes of TANF that are outlined in federal law, we've been able to use TANF to meet those needs.

The key thing, this is not a cure all for the problem that we're seeing with the federal impact on snap, but we're looking at using whatever other resources are available for us. I think, you know, the Department wants to look at, okay, what tools do we have in our toolbox? How do we put them in use?

Right.

We're continuing to have conversations about how else we may be able to respond to this. Like I said, another way we're responding is we're working with the food bank. We're looking to provide, you know, additional funding to them to supplement the resources in the short term. So we're trying to look at a multi pronged approach.

So I might have missed this in the first couple slides. $100 million. SNAP is how much a month? About 60 million a month. 60 million a month. So at the most this can, this will run if fully utilized for SNAP.

This will run out by the end of the year if we're forced to use it in this way. And then can you go back or if it's not in there, My understanding is that we can't just take that money and fill EBT cards. Yeah, that's correct. Okay. Why was it in the slide?

No, it's not in the slide, but there's a specific mechanism for SNAP to get out to the community. So there's an EBT vendor that basically we work with for those benefits and it's restricted only for the use of food for, for TANF.

Again, the purpose that we're using it for is for housing and we're making those payments for the Hawaii Relief Program directly to the vendor. So it doesn't go directly to the participants. So it's a little bit different than the mechanism for snap. But part of the.

So I guess my question is more rudimentary. Why can't we just take the 100.0 million and cut the vendor a check for 60 and say, fill the SNAP cards?

So there's a lot of mechanics on the back end with using EBT as a vendor to get benefits out to the community. I know that when we've talked to other states, other states across. Every other state is dealing with the same situation and running into these same challenges with utilizing that existing infrastructure.

We are in conversations with the EBT vendor now to see if there are different things that are possible, but just as a quick way to get things out to community. It's not something that we would have been able to do immediately.

So we're again looking at what can we stand up quickly to get the resources out to the community in the short term. Right. We know people need assistance right now.

I'm not challenging the plan. I just, That's a. I asked a real basic question that I don't understand and people are going to want to.

Know why and, and just. We'll get back to you. I just. As, as an aside, a big nonprofit did a social media post saying specifically that the state is physically able to fund EBT cards. So is it your position that you folks are not able to? Because I remember discussions with you folks before this informational briefing.

You said no.

Well, okay. So there's a couple of different things. So I think after the last government shutdown, and my staff can correct me if I make any misstatements on this, we did work with our EBT vendor to set up the mechanics. If we had state funding identified, we could potentially use it for that.

But there's a lot of other mechanics involved with our eligibility system, our nearly 40 year old hobby eligibility system we're using and how that sort of interfaces with everything and then depending on the type of funding source that we're using.

So it's not something that's as simple as, okay, just because this mechanism is there that we're able to quickly stand something up. And it does involve testing and ongoing discussions with the vendor. And again, if there's anything I misstated, feel free to.

Okay, you can keep going. Unless you want me to.

Go ahead.

Okay, so how soon can you put together that $100.0 million for the TANF release?

So we anticipate the announcement will be tomorrow, later this week, and we will be able to take applications following that. So again, I apologize, but further details will be shared tomorrow when they make the broader announcement about that program.

Okay. In my understanding, the reason that we have that ability is because legislatively, a few years ago we had put the mechanics legislatively in place to use TANF funds for housing relief, but for some reason we could not implement it. And now you're able to use that legislative mechanism to now hopefully Fund it sooner, Is that right?

So there was legislation passed a few years ago to try and establish housing subsidies using the TANF funds. Our understanding at the time that legislation was passed was that that was something that we would be able to do do.

However, upon getting further clarification from the two federal agencies involved, both ACF for the TANE funds and USDA for the impact those funds would have on other benefits like snap, our understanding was that we could not provide the subsidy in the way that it was originally envisioned.

But because of the focus, that focus and that task to us to look at how can we use TANF to address housing, that was in part the inspiration for us to look at how can we take these bigger chunks out, focus them on housing, how can we be bold to stand up something that will help the community in times of crisis?

So it did inspire us to move in the direction that we're going today with the Hawaii Relief Program and it did sort of lay the groundwork for that. I did want to clarify that the Hawaii Relief Program is a non recurring program. So I think that's the difference that initial.

What the Legislature was envisioning prior was an ongoing rental subsidy for a longer period of time. I think it was up to five years potentially.

What was clarified to us is if you're using tenant funds for housing and again, staff can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but there's a limit to how long that assistance can be. So it's capped at four months.

So again, I'm trying not to go into too deep details on the new program, but it's a short term program where we can provide up to four months of payment for housing, rent or mortgage, as well as for different utilities, electric, water and gas.

And I, and, and I understand that you, I know because I have been in discussions with you folks prior to this informational briefing that you folks are being put between a rock and a hard place to try to find these monies.

I am a little bit disappointed, well, really quite a bit disappointed that rainy day funds were not, I mean, couldn't be used because last session we put more money into rainy day funds to be able to. And we're talking about feeding people and using TANF.

And I understand that this is probably the only Fund that you can use right now. And we have to talk to the AG as to why we couldn't use the funds that we had set aside last session, which has grown to a couple of $1.0 billion for this, over 10% of the population, 169,000 people who are affected.

Real fast answer. Why couldn't we use those rainy day funds that we have set aside?

So one thing is we are working coordination with Governor's Office and Department of Budget and Finance. We want to be mindful of the broader impact impacts on the state's financial situation, economy. I think for us we were looking at what resources could we most immediately tap into.

And for our division and Department, the TANF funds were the fastest resource that we could get out there because we know in this time of crisis you have to respond quickly. And so that was our primary driver of using that pot of funds.

I will say, and again, if anybody can clarify if I misstate anything, but there are ongoing conversations about what other options may be possible. We're looking at a variety of different options.

I know there's ongoing conversations with multiple stakeholders, but we are again looking at what can we do right now, how do we immediately meet the need and the TANF funding and the amount of funding for the food bank.

That's what we're trying to stand up right now just so we have something to be able to immediately mitigate the impacts. And we're continuing to have ongoing discussion about what other options are available.

Like I said, I understand the stressors you folks have been in the past couple of weeks.

I think one other thing I did want to mention is when both Hawaii and other states have looked at the possibility of a state funded benefit for SNAP.

One of the challenges is that let's say we put that into motion and you commit that funding out to the community and then the government were to reopen the next day or a couple days later, we would not be able to recall those benefits back. Right.

So if we sent up our issuance files tonight like we normally would four days before the end of the month and we committed to, okay, let's set aside money for 6, 60 million in state funds for those benefits and the government were to reopen a couple days later, we would not be able to cancel that transmission once we started.

And USDA has clearly told us that we should not expect reimbursement for any state funds expended. So I think that's another factor that is really important to consider as as we're looking at this that we're trying to be mindful of.

Okay. At least a discussion hopefully. As to my concern about using TANF funds is that it only will affect those individuals who are eligible for TANF, which is less than the 10% plus who are going to be affected. So the governor's position then is.

And they rely on the food bank because we can't use the Rainy Day Funds even for a. What? Joe, come on up. These are the questions people are asking me. Okay. We. We set aside an unprecedented amount last session for the state Rainy Day Fund. Over 10 of the people are going to go hungry.

Really more because federal employees are not getting paid. So they're also going to go hungry. So this, this is really a small percentage. And I know you folks are under stress, but that's the reason we have an informational briefing.

Yes.

People want to know why can't we tap into it? Even if not the entire 16 million, hopefully the next week there could be a shutdown, but that extra 5 million or so that can be. That can be added in would be a substantial relief. Go ahead.

Okay, thank you, Chair.

Identify yourself first.

Joseph Campos, Deputy Director, Department of Human Services. Thank you, Chair. Senator. Oh, my goodness. No, no, no. Sorry.

Okay. Apology for trying.

So thank you for that question. We are. Governor Green is fully aware of the issues at hand, and he has been doing a coordinated effort between Office of Hawaiian Affairs, Department of Human Services, Food bank, other philanthropic organizations to address the need at hand.

As our administrator Scott Morishige mentioned, the necessity to move quickly is, of course, one of the highest priorities. The TANF reserves is one of the ways we are looking at working through this process. All the information will come out tomorrow. We're still finalizing things, so we don't want to give misinformation at this moment in time.

In addition, we are working with the Food Bank. Governor Green is also contemplating other mechanisms to ensure that the entirety of the population that needs food assistance will receive food assistance. And so it is not just the reliance on the possible TANF relief program. It is also looking at various mechanisms within the state funding available.

One of the funding sources, you know, could be the Rainy Day Fund, which would require special session to come into place. Play.

Okay. And so is that is one of the potential ideas or solutions that the Governor is looking at?

Governor Green is considering all possible solutions at this moment in time.

Senator, thank you for that.

Why. Why, why would a special session be needed to tap the Rainy Day Fund?

It's my understanding that that's the policies that are and the rules in place, that in order to adapt the Rainy Day Fund, it has to have legislative authority as well.

Okay, well, if you folks can provide some detail on that after the briefing or note our request for some clarity on that, if there's some sort of information that will be put out when the program gets rolled out tomorrow. I mean, we have. We have multiple emergency funds. Right.

But for example, the Major Disaster Fund doesn't require legislative approval to utilize. If there's a disaster. They just, they just use it. So that would be helpful. And then also.

So if there's going to be more information put out later in the week, then I would also go back to the earlier question and just ask that you folks try to make it as clear as possible, because I know things are moving really fast and there's a lot of work underway, which we both appreciate.

Why exactly are we doing things the way they're being proposed if the reason is it's too cumbersome to do it the other way and this is the fastest, most efficient way, or that there's some sort of downside in our interactions with the Federal Government that make it infeasible. Whatever the answer is a fair answer.

I think it's just really critical at this point to be clear and as simple as possible with the community that's about to be hit with this, having gone through the need to sort of stand up and create programs to support people during Covid you folks remember. It's.

Just really, really important to have clear messages through as many different channels as possible because people are not going to know that this is happening until. Until it's really, really happening to them in a. In a really bad way. And I'm really concerned about that.

So. So I am concerned. And that's the reason we had scheduled this informational briefing as late as possible at the end of October, because we were hoping of better solutions than what we've heard right now.

And my understanding, and my understanding may be wrong, but my community had faced a 2018 lava flow when we were asking for relief, that the Governor, without a special session, had the ability to use $5 million.

And I don't know whether or not that's major disaster monies or the rainy day Fund without the need for a special session. And in that instance, we did not have a special session even though 800 homes were destroyed and the like. And the Governor came up with monies.

So it's disappointing to me that we don't have beyond because like I had pointed out, and you folks know this because you folks do human services more than I do, over 10% of the people who are qualified for SNAP will not qualify for TANF, a lot of them.

And the federal employees who are going to be relying on the food bank will also not qualify for tanf. So there's this exponential need. So I do have a question just to make sure.

For those people who may qualify for TANF when the shutdown ends, are they still going to be required to do the able bodied work requirement and I understand that they have some leeway, but they still are going to need to qualify for that. Right. Even if they don't get SNAP benefits now.

So people who are participants in SNAP program, let's say you're approved or currently eligible even though the benefit for November is not paid out. Yes. You're still subject to the able bodied adult work requirements.

If you were in one of those populations I mentioned that was not subject to it previously, we would not assess somebody until their time of their interview.

So even though we're required to implement November 1st, let's say you're a kupuna, age 56 and never subject to previously, but you're on SNAP, we will not ask you about this until the time of your next recertification interview.

So if your recertification interview is not until, let's say, February, we will not ask you about the able bodied adult work requirements until February. And then at that time we would assess to say, are you able bodied? Because just because you're in one of those groups, it doesn't mean that we're automatically expecting you to work.

It's the assessment. Are you able bodied? So assessment, if the person has a disabling condition, there's some other factor, they may not be subject to it. But we assess that during the time of the interview and then that's when it would apply. I hope that's clear.

I think it's one of those that we're going to end up seeing implementation. What problems will lie in the implementation of it? My concern is like cutting off more benefits for people who do qualify inadvertently. And I understand that we had a substantial error rate last time, but like I said offline, that didn't bother me as much.

So long as you erred on the side of giving people food. Yeah, but my concern, of course, is whether or not we're going to be dinged with getting less SNAP benefits because of such error rates. So I know you folks are under the gun. Please. We know our concerns we have for snap. Go ahead.

And then we have WIC issues as well as the food bank issues. Go ahead.

Yeah. My understanding is that at the onset of the shutdown, TANF and WIC have been impacted. Do you have an update on what's going on with those two programs? Are there, have there been any changes?

TANF has not been impacted by the federal shutdown. So it was only snap. And then I believe Department of Health is going to be sharing about work shortly.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. So we're gonna have the farm felt, but. oh, excuse me. Yeah.

Answer to the special session. Yeah. Yeah. So it says that monies in the glasses. I think.

I think you guys are right. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't come in.

Monies in the EBRF are not yet appropriated. Article 7, Section 5 of the Hawaii Constitution gives the Legislature sole authority to appropriate funds. So that's the reason for the necessity.

Of the special session to tap the ebrf. Yeah. Right.

Right. Okay. So. But stick around because we may have questions after we start talking to them. So, please. Department of Health, your turn for WIC, Women and Children, identify yourselves and share your screen.

Okay. You need to expand that.

So. Good morning, Chair. Good morning, Senator Keohokalole. My name is Matt Shim. I am Chief of the Family Health Services Division at the Department of Health. Excuse me. Put the microphone closer to your mouth. Oh, sorry.

It's okay.

I'm Matt Shim. I'm Chief of the Family Health Services Division at the Department of Health. Joining me is Melanie Murakami. She is the WIC Services Branch Chief and serves as our State WIC Director. So thanks for the opportunity to share how the WIC program continues to support the health and well being of the state's most vulnerable families.

We're here today to provide an update on WIC services during the Federal Government shutdown. So, the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, better known as wic, is a federally funded program administered by the Department of Health.

WIC serves pregnant women, new mothers, infants and children under age 5 who are at nutritional risk and meet income eligibility. So WIC provides nutritious supplemental foods, including infant formula, nutrition education and counseling, breastfeeding support, and referrals to health care and social services.

So in Hawaii, WIC serves approximately 26,000 participants per month statewide and operates 14 clinics across all counties, ensuring access for both urban and rural communities.

So WIC participation is linked to improved birth outcomes like lower rates of preterm birth and low birth rate, better childhood nutrition and development, increased access to preventive care and immunizations, reduced long term health care costs. WIC also plays a vital role in combating food insecurity, which affects about 20 to 25% of all children in Hawaii.

So every year in Hawaii, WIC food redemptions total about $30 million. So WIC Food Fund Dollars are spent at local authorized grocery stores and markets, and every WIC dollar invested returns multiple times in healthcare savings and economic activity. So there's two types of funding lines that we get for wic.

NSA funds, which are nutritional service and Administration, which are costs necessary to fulfill grant programs objectives. And then food funds, which is specific for acquiring supplemental foods for WIC participants. So that is actually food cost. So Every month in NSA funds, salaries are about 290,000.

That does exclude the 16 state funded positions that the Legislature just gave us this past year. Thank you very much.

And about $483,000 per month for our other programs, including our contracts with our federally qualified health centers and one of our hospitals, food funds total about $2.5 million per month, and that's about $85,000 per day in participant food redemptions. So our total, there is 3.2 million, about $3.2 million per month for our federal funds. Our current food.

Federal food funds expire on November 10th, and our payroll and contracts, NSA funds expire on December 15th. So we did receive some carryover funds, some contingency funds, and some Farm Bill Section 32 allocations. And those are shown there for NSA funds. 1 million plus 350,000 and then 1.4 million for food funds.

Right now for state funds, the Department of Health, we're reviewing all our available funding to continue WIC services and food redemptions. And we have funds through December 31, and then we're still looking to see what we can do beyond January 1st.

So right now we have up to $9.4 million for food and NSA funds to continue WIC services through December 31st, 2025. So in summary, our two key points. The WIC services branch is operating under normal conditions statewide through December 31, 2025. Folks should continue to apply for benefits.

Folks will continue to receive their benefits and recertify for benefits through December 31, 2025. We're continuing our contingency planning to identify additional DOH resources for funds beyond January 1. If the government shutdown continues. The WIC services branch is communicating with our local agency supervisors twice weekly, weekly updates or earlier if we receive them.

All of our public updates are on our WIC website, and then media inquiries are done through the Department of Health communications office. So thank you again. We really appreciate the Legislature support for our 16 positions that we received this past year. Ideally, if the.

If the government shutdown continued, those 16 state positions would be able to continue and we had food funds, those 16 positions would be able to continue all the benefits for our participants. So we're available to answer any questions you have.

Do you have any questions?

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that. How many of the. You said 26,000 WIC participants per month?

A month. Half of those are children.

Do you have any way of determining how many of the households that. Where those recipients reside also are on SNAP?

Yes, we. So if they qualify for SNAP, they're adjunctively eligible for WIC. So we document that when we certify them onto WIC.

What's the rate?

I. I don't have that number, but I can look it up really high. At least half. And we are actually enrolling people that are furloughed or not receiving any income. So we've been starting to get new applicants.

Okay. Yeah, so that's my follow up, because it seems to me that the longer the shutdown is, the more people who are going to be affected and the more there are a number of people who don't apply for services assuming that they have enough snap. Right.

So we are anticipating that an increase.

Yes. Okay. And even with the anticipation of the increase, you folks believe you have enough funds until the end of the year?

Yes. As of now? Yes.

Okay, well, that's good to know. But the benefits also, because you look into whether or not they qualify for SNAP. Are those participants who qualify for SNAP getting reduced benefits because you assume that they are getting SNAP benefits?

No, they are not.

There's no. Any. There's no reduction. Doesn't matter.

Correct. The two programs are separate. So because the. The WIC program is a supplemental nutrition program. It is specific. It provides the supplemental nutrition and benefits for the mom or the child specifically, regardless of any SNAP benefits.

Okay. Or TANF or anything else.

Is that taken into account as a part of the.

No, it's not taken. It's just to have them qualify for WIC. If they're receiving SNAP, TANF or Quest their income eligible for WIC. And then it's based on their category.

How many. Okay. We put in state funded positions. How many positions are federally funded?

We have 60 on the organization, but I have a lot of vacancies. So I have about 40 that are still going to be federally funded.

Okay. Because I know that there are quite a bit in DHS and those so far because of you folks looking at your budgets are still funded right. Until. Yes. Hopefully the next fiscal year.

Correct. Our current federally funded staff. We do have funds through December 15, but we are looking. Or those are the federal funds through December 15th. And then we do have our Department of Health funds that will fund them through the end of December.

And then we're continuing to look to see what we would have available if the shutdown continues beyond January 1st.

Okay. And then the legislative session starts. So it's a lot easier for you folks to. For us to be able to tap on the Rainy Day Funds. Any other questions? Okay. So thank you. Stick around. We may have questions later on. Food Bank. Come on up. Identify yourself.

And I just want to make sure that you also mention. Because I'm from the neighbor islands. Yes. And I'm getting complaints. Goes well, why isn't Food Basket also involved? So could you explain also that. But first identify yourself.

Yes. Wait, let me do the screen sharing. Okay. Well, aloha. Good morning. Thank you so much for having us. My name is Elia Herman. I am the Director of Advocacy for Hawaii Food Bank. And I'm here with our Vice President of Strategy and Programs, Marielle Turbio.

So to answer your first question, so Hawaii Food Bank serves Oahu and Kauai. And we work very closely as we call ourselves the Food Bank Hui with Maui Food bank and the Food Basket on Hawaii Island. So we are all kind of a collective, but serving and together serve the entire state.

So when I'm talking today, really the impacts I'm sharing, and you'll see I have data that's statewide. It really pertains to everyone.

Thank you very much. Sure. Of course.

So today, similar to Scott, I want to give a little current context that all of this is happening in. Then I'll talk specifically about the federal shutdown as well as resources that are available to help.

So first, just to make sure everyone really understands what food security is, it's the lack of access to enough food for an active, healthy life. And that can take a lot of different forms from worrying that you have enough food to put on the table to.

To restricting what you eat, to even going in extreme cases with whole days of not eating or skipping meals. And actually, just a quick story about that. A couple of months ago, we were talking with one of the SNAP recipients. Cause we're also a SNAP outreach provider who we've helped.

And it was the end of the month, and he told us he's a parent of four, that he had skipped dinner last night, which was sort of his practice at the end of the month because they had run out of benefits.

And he, he tells his friends he's on a diet so that people don't know, but he didn't have enough food, and he protected his kids and made sure they had enough to eat. And so statewide, one in three households in Hawaii are food insecure.

And importantly to add to that, most of those have very low food security, which means they're skipping a meal, going days without eating.

Childhood food insecurity is also about the same with the story I just shared with parents having even higher levels of food security than their children, because again, as any of us who are parents know, we sacrifice so that our kids are taken care of. And as was shared, you know, people are always making impossible choices.

And when it comes to food, it's really difficult because you, you can shrink your food budget and you can skip meals, but you can't skip your rent. So, you know, I know there were a lot of questions about the different ways that we're responding, but we do hope that by helping People with rent.

It will free up money for them to get food. So Hawaii Food bank in particular, last year we served. We worked with more than 275 partners, our hunger relief partners, big and small.

We have partners who we give food to, distribute over a million pounds of food each year to tiny little pantries, one run by auntie who just put out a thousand, you know, a cup or a couple hundred pounds of food, but in a very specific community.

So we work with all of these partners on Oahu and Kauai, and we were able to provide enough food for 19.7 million meals last year. Year, statewide, the food bank Hui provided enough food for 29.1 million meals. And again, altogether, we're working with more than 500 different partners and pantries.

We have mobile distributions that we're also running ourselves and getting, getting that food into community. And we really, people are the center of our work. And so we always want to meet them where they are, and we work to identify those gaps, those places. We actually just set up a mobile food pantry. There's one on Maui.

There's I think, one or two on Maui, two on Maui, one on Kauai, one on Oahu. That gives us additional access to places that either where there's not. It's refrigerated. So in those places where there might not be refrigeration, we can bring.

A pantry, might not have refrigeration, we can bring that fresh produce or just to areas that don't have pantries. The other thing I wanted to talk about briefly is our purchasing power.

So for every dollar that we receive, because of the relationships that we have in our ability to purchase at scale, we are able to take that dollar and leverage it to over $5 worth of what you would buy at the store.

So again, kind of talking numbers, that means that last year, Hawaii Food bank alone distributed over $105 million worth of food when you're looking at retail cost. So the 2 million actually. So that just sort of thinking about that, the 2 million that Scott mentioned, which we are really grateful for, and that is statewide.

So it is going to come through Hawaii Food bank, but it will go to all of the islands. So we will then pass it through also to Maui Food bank and the Food Basket, you know, that 2 million is going to be able to purchase over $10 million worth of food. So it's really impactful.

And then the other thing I just wanted to highlight is, you know, we do invest a lot in our local farmers, and those are, you know, they're also being impacted by this because obviously a snap is cut. Fewer people can spend a bucks.

So that's, you know, there are all these other trickle down effects, but we do, whenever possible we do try to invest locally, but that is expensive. So last year 77% of our produce purchase budget was spent with local farmers and food hubs.

And we work with over 40, but that did only provide 20% of our total produce volume. So we just want to be realistic about, you know, what things cost and the trade off and share some of that information.

Okay, and then the last piece of context is before any of these other things happened, before the OBBBA, before the shutdown, the food banks statewide had already lost over $4 million worth of food. And that's 7% of all the food that was distributed statewide. And this program ended in the spring.

So kind of going into this year, we heard about this in March and those shipments stopped. We already are operating with less food than we did last year. And this is all in the context of increasing demand. So right now we are serving about the same as we did at the peak of the pandemic.

So this is really, really, really, really serious. And we're doing it with less resources. Those federal cut all the things that were available during Covid those aren't there. And similarly we're. So the amount of people is the same as the peak of the pandemic as well as the pounds that we're distributing.

And actually in FY26, our current year, we are on track to exceed£25 million. So this again, not related to the shutdown. This is just looking at our first quarter distributions at that pace. The need is so great already that we are on pace to exceed the peak of Covid Then we layer on the federal shutdown.

I'm sorry, not to be apocalyptic, but it is, it's, it's big. So there's, there's two real impacts. Just to remind people. First is the increased demand due to layoffs and missed paychecks. So that's federal contractors, military and civilian federal employees. So I do want to.

There's that group of folks, you know, I think everyone knows on Friday the civilian employees missed their first full paycheck. They'd, they'd gotten half a paycheck. The military did get paid, but we don't know if they're going to get paid on Friday. So it's a big question.

And then of course there are the disruptions to SNAP and potentially other programs. And again, just looking at Hawaii in particular, we have the second highest number of federal civilian employees per capita, just after Maryland. And we also have the highest concentration of military service members of all states.

And besides Washington, D.C. there's been some articles coming out. We are the most impacted. So just, just knowing that's what we're facing. So we did some math and again, this is sort of separate from the SNAP cuts to look at those civilian employees and active service members.

There are potentially 24,000 impacted civilian employees, 44,000 active duty service members, and some unknown amount of federal contractors. I think we heard recently there might be 30,000 with the military. But that number, it's, it's hard to get all of these numbers.

But you know, as a rough estimate, that's 75,000 potential households at risk, which is 15% of the total population in Hawaii. And if you go back to that one third of households are food insecure. That means you end up with 25,000 households that who, you know, for whom this will make a really big difference.

And honestly, if you, these are, you know, this is going to impact our Alice households as well. And that gets you to 34,000. So we're looking at tens of thousands of households at risk and being impacted severely because of the missed paychecks and layoffs.

And then the second piece, of course, is the loss of SNAP benefits that Scott covered in great detail. But we just wanted to share again that context with the food banks. So together, Hawaii food banks collectively last year connected families with food for over 2.4 million meals. SNAP provides more than five times that statewide.

So that's an impossible gap for us to close on our own. We are, we are, and we'll do everything we can, but we cannot close that gap alone. So what are we doing? Well, we have over, just for context, we put out about 500,000 pounds of food or 400,000 meals each week.

And to prepare for increased need, we placed orders in early mid October for an additional 673,000 pounds of food, or 17 containers. We spent about $500,000 to start to bring that in because of course, it doesn't show up immediately. You have to place the orders now for something that's coming a couple of weeks from now.

So that's, we are also setting up additional distributions, expanding, getting more food into community. But again, we can't do this on our own. And so we really do need people to join this effort. I put at the bottom here, there's a link for people. We have kind of an emergency volunteer squad.

And so that's a Link people can go to, to help with volunteers and they can also just email or call. And then as I said, we're also putting that food into community. The pantry in Kalihi and we have one of our pantry folks here today. They have added a distribution on Mondays, an additional distribution.

Armed Services ymca, they're going to add an additional distribution and then we want to know. So we are serving people. There's a place people can go pretty much every single day. So just looking, this week we have distribution Wednesday at Central Union, Thursday at Kalihi Union. Surfing the nation. So our existing distributions are there in community.

We just know that a lot of people haven't needed to access them before. So on our website, hawaiifoodbank.org shutdown all of the new distributions as well as our existing ones which are going to continue are available.

And then we're also working on setting additional pop up distributions at those key sort of federal work locations like the airport, Tripler, Ford island, the federal building. And then you know, quickly, just to share kind of the story, as we mentioned, the pantry has added an additional distribution to their Wednesday and Friday.

So this is a Monday distribution for federally impacted families. It was launched mid October and just you know, it was new. So their first distribution, you know 82 orders Placed6065 new families and just I guess that was yesterday. It's, it's been a whirlwind. They had 308 orders and 89 new families registered before noon.

And these are people for the most part have never had to seek help before but they just can't with the loss of their paychecks. They just can't make ends meet anymore. And then, and then we will now have additional people starting November 1st who will have lost their snap back benefits.

So thank you for inviting us for letting us have the time to, to share this story and, and share the need.

I know the picture we painted was fairly bleak, but I also know that in Hawaii we come together and we will figure a way through this and we are, we are here to be a partner in that. Mahalo.

Hollow questions.

Senator Kole, can you go back to the slide about the, the magnitude of the SNAP benefits compared to what you got? Yeah. 2.4 million.

Okay. So while you're thinking, seems to me if you go to your, the federal shutdown, the one after that. That one. Oh yeah, that one, yeah. 75, 000 potential households at risk at 15%. The 1/3 estimated food insecure is that part, the 250,00 is that part of 75,000 or in addition, right?

No, that's part of it. So basically 75, 000 households are potentially, especially if military doesn't get paid, will not have. And then if we're just using these are just kind of back of the envelope calculations, we know one in third households are food insecure.

So we're assuming a third of these are already food insecure and now they as along with other people are missing their paychecks. So kind of guaranteed probably a third are going to need help and then likely more once they lose their paychecks or when they did, you know, they have lost their paychecks.

So also looking at that2024000 civilian employees, TSA, the air traffic. Controllers, these park workers.

Yep. NOAA, Fish and Wildlife Service, all those. Yeah, all those folks. And. Yeah, and military, civilian as well. So. Yeah, yeah.

So those are the people who are being threatened with losing their jobs. So they still need to put gas in their cars to be able to go to work even though they're not having. They don't have a paycheck. So those people are gonna be more food insecure.

Right. And for the civilian employees, you know, some of them are furloughed and some of them are considered essential and working. So you, so you have both, you have both categories.

So you heard from Department of Human Services governors, at least intermediate plan. Hopefully we don't need to go more into this will end in a week or so, or less than a week. But is the $2 million enough?

I mean, I think that's the $2 million will help as we shared. You know, it's a huge gap we're trying to fill. And I think an important thing to point out, it's not just the cost of food.

So we are already operating at or near capacity in terms of what our warehouse can store, in terms of the staffing, in terms of our trucks. So when we're talking about what it will take to close this gap, it's not just the price of food. So I just, you know, that's just an important thing to understand.

There's all of the infrastructure that goes with that. So, you know, I think it's hard to know what, how, how much, but 2 million is a, is a great start and a big, and a big help.

Okay. So.

And we're, we're in close contact, you know, in trying to make sure that everything, you know, we're keeping the Administration up to date on what's going on, what our needs are, what we're seeing. In the community.

You have a public forum now. Okay. Pending, I guess, a special session. Is it your request that basically people donate? Yes. While. Yeah, thank you for that and yes, thank you.

And maybe I'll just go back to this slide that donating, you know, obviously we will take food donations, volunteers, but donating money does make the biggest difference because, because we can stretch that dollar five times. We can buy what's needed. You know, we have our inventory. We save on time of sorting the food.

So, yes, we, we do need the funding. We're trying, you know, we are working with foundations, private partners, working with our state government. But yes, if people can help, if they can donate, if they can volunteer, we will, we will take whatever we can and so appreciate the opportunity.

I want to buttress that ultimate support that with the fact that you had pointed out 15% of the population is already potentially food insecure because of the federal shutdown. If we add that to the over 10% who, households who are already eligible for SNAP, you're talking about one in four.

Well, I would actually back up and remind you that actually before all of this, one in three. So you're already at one in three. Now you have federal employees who may not have been food insecure, but no longer have paychecks or who were food insecure. And also no longer.

So they might have been, you know, had low food insecurity. Now they have very low, or maybe they were food secure and now they're not. So you already had one in three. And then, you know, we, most of our folks who receive SNAP are going to be food insecure. You know, sometimes SNAP helps them become food secure.

So certainly if they no longer have those SNAP benefits, it would be hard to imagine that all of those SNAP households are, you know, I'm sure they are now. Yeah.

So we're actually looking at more than one in three, I think. So for those people who think that the federal shutdown does not affect them, then this is a huge reminder because this is before we even had the shutdown. And so you're talking about neighbors, friends. That's right. Close family.

That's right.

People. Close family who will be hungry unless we do something.

And I just, if I can just remind one more thing. So, right, this is without the shutdown and also even after the shutdown, because of all of the changes that Scott mentioned, that 2% decrease, the $8 per person being lost starting October 1, that ends up being over $1.0 million a month.

So that's another, you know, that's over 15 million, it's about $1.3 million a month, over $15 million lost a year. Plus the changes into. For the able bodied, working adults. Plus those changes. Those impacts are going to continue even after the shutdown. So I just want to make sure that people are also aware of that. There's.

Once the shutdown ends, it's not that everything just is hunky dory. There's still a lot of challenges.

Yes, at least hopefully. Now I have a question regarding the impact of federal cuts. Your slide, you read my mind. Yes. Why did it go from 4 $1.0 million down to zero from.

So if you remember this was, this was as you remember in the beginning of the year when the Administration came in, they made a lot of cuts to jobs and to funding. And we were on the, there were news articles at the time. It was actually nationwide over $500 million in cuts to this program.

It's the emergency food assistance program and this particular part of it was responsible for really good, healthy, reliable food and they eliminated it. So we were getting about, statewide about $4 million worth of food through that program and it was eliminated.

So again this is pre shutdown that we have now statewide, $4 million less coming in in terms of healthy food that people were accessing.

Okay, so you even had less money.

Yep.

Feeding more people who are hungry. Yes, yes. And.

Yeah.

Okay, so it's. Right now it looks pretty dire, but Any other questions? Senator Keokukolole?

Yeah, I gotta say this whole thing is very disturbing. Yes. We were at the pantry yesterday for the government worker food distribution. And. You know, you talk about having inventory to do the work that you guys do.

Now even if you are able to receive support from the state or from the community to try and address the unmet need, you know, as the shutdown persists, it doesn't look like it's gonna. There's a resolution on the horizon. What do you do with that money?

You know, part of why I asked Scott earlier, why can't we just find money and put it in EBT cards is, is the. Can you go back to that slide about the 2.4 million meals you guys do versus the 13 million?

The 13 million.

So that 13 million is procured from commercial markets, Right?

So ex. So exactly. Yeah. So with those EBT cards, the purchasing power that SNAP provides ends up equating to about $13 million per month. So that's also.

That's from grocery stores, right? Yes. Okay. So you can't replace that even if you had the money in terms of.

The Sort of economic power distributions.

Where. Where would you get that food?

So we get, we get our food from a range of places. So we do have relationships on the continent with other food banks where we're able to. We've actually been adopted by some of the California food banks. So we can get good prices, for instance, for apples or naval oranges.

So we're able to bring food like that in at a very low cost. We do, we purchase from local farmers. We do other purchases. We have all of the donations. So if so the funding that will come in, we will use that for a range of different kinds of purchases to invest in the local economy.

So I imagine we will make some local food purchases as well as, you know, other food purchases where we can get a really good price per pound. Because ultimately, most likely it's going to.

Exist outside of the normal commercial supply chain. You're not getting this stuff from the grocery stores where these families are normally purchasing food. You're going to scale from outside of Hawaii and you're going to try and work with farmers. Right, to grab the rest of their inventory.

Right? That's right. Because our, you know, our number one priority is to feed people. But you're absolutely right. That means that those SNAP dollars aren't going back into those local gross. Exactly in the same way. That's absolutely right.

And that's one of the scary things is those, you know, I know we've heard from the food basket, they're really worried about a lot of their small farmers who rely on things like the bucks, which allows people to get, you know, twice the amount of produce. So, yeah, it's a huge concern.

We, we, yeah, we don't think we are the solution. We are one part of it, but all the rest is needed.

Right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

So I have a question for DHS. Yes, Joe and Scott, could you come on up? After hearing all these presentations, seems to me Wick is the only one who seems okay. Of the 88,229 households or 169,000 individuals in SNAP that's going to be directly impacted, how many are TANF eligible?

About a third. Are families with children a third.

Okay.

So I think that's roughly 28,000 households, but it's about a third.

So two thirds won't be able to get any benefit from that TANF Rental Subsidy Relief Program. Okay. And I see that WIC says that 26,000 participants are those. Do you know how Many of the 168,947 individuals are WIC participants or because, I mean, it's a separate population. It may not be the same population.

I don't have that information immediately available, but I don't know if that's something that we're able to gather.

Okay. And I do know from. And I'm not in education Committee, so I couldn't bring Department of Education in, but I've seen press releases by the Department of Education that for those who are, who have. That the school lunch programs are continuing. Okay. As far as you know, they're not affected by the shutdown.

So at least that way those kids in public schools and charter schools will at least be able to have food through the school. Through the school lunch programs. Yes. You're nodding your head, so you can't say yes.

Yeah, that's our understanding.

Okay. That they're not affected.

And it's our understanding also, if people are furloughed from the Federal Government that the Department of Education is encouraging them.

To apply for the school lunch program. So even if their kids are not in a public school or. Charter school. Public. Charter school. That they can apply for the school lunch program during this interim. As far as you know. Yes. Okay. Okay. Any other questions, Senator Kola? We are. Yeah, go ahead.

Well, I mean, this might be trivial, but, yeah, I guess there was a memo by the USDA that came out at the end of last week. In. Which they indicated that the $5 billion in SNAP contingency funds would not be utilized because it's not a sufficient emergency.

Has there been some sort of formal request by our State Administration that they reconsider that? So my understanding is.

Could you put the mic next to you? Yeah, My, my understanding is you probably, Attorney General was looking at joining litigation with other states, you know, against the US Department of Agriculture to look at this issue of whether the contingency funds could be utilized.

Okay. Okay. Well, then, yeah. I mean, I just want to reiterate again that, that most, I mean, not, I don't want to over generalize, but likely huge percentages of the people that are going to be impacted by this don't watch the news or read the paper, and we have a very limited time to get the message out.

And you know, Scott, I mean, you guys remember during COVID I mean, we were months into this thing and people didn't even realize there was a pandemic. And it's likely going to be these same, same communities that lack access that are going to be the ones that are the most hurt.

So if you can help us at the legislative level with access to information, then we can put it out to our communities as well. But the simpler and then the more different platforms and venues we can get out information to people just for where to look for food, the better.

So I know you guys are working on it and you guys are really in the eye of the storm on this. So thank you very much for, for all of your effort.

Just as a comment to that, I know that every single state website will have a banner that links to all of the resources available for people who are experiencing food insecurity. So we are going to be looking at a variety of different ways to get the message out as well.

And I do want to thank everyone who presented. I know it was very last minute and I know that you are all under stressors as providers. You would not be in the positions you were in if you did not care for people. So I know you folks are under stressors knowing.

I mean you folks see the over 10% on SNAP, the potential food bank, another 25% plus right. One in three.

I'm hoping that whatever food programs we have like WIC, hopefully the MDS will allow for that 11 because we have an 1115 waiver and the Medicaid funds are not touched by the, by the shut down that those could be implemented to feed.

And I'm thankful that Department of Education is stepping up in the communication because communication is key to get especially for this population who don't have access and an increasing population because it's going to go into civilian employees. Right. Who are not going to be eligible for the TANF relief that you folks are going to push out there.

But communication is key. I'm thankful. I'm also disappointed that we don't have a remedy. I was hoping, really hoping that we give get a silver lining out to the public.

But doesn't look like it if the Governor is looking for a special session that he needs to communicate that to legislators as soon as possible possible because getting quorum during the interim is very difficult. But this should be top of mind. Feeding people should be top of mind. So thank you very much to everyone. Thank you.

Even if it's bad news, the people should know. But you know that we're working on it and I know that small solace to people to tell people we're working on it. We do have a rainy day Fund. Hopefully you could tap into that. Okay. And.

And the fact that we may not get fully reimbursed for the monies that we use up shouldn't be an. Shouldn't be an obstacle. We need to feed people. Okay, thank you very much. And with that, we are adjourned.