House Standing Committee on Energy & Environmental Protection

Good morning and welcome to the Committee on Energy and Environmental Protection. We're convening today, Thursday, April 10, 9 a.m. agenda to hear a number of resolutions that have come over from the Senate. I am Representative Perruso, currently serving as Chair, and I am also accompanied by my Chair, Representative Lowen. The other Members will be joining us soon.

We do have some time constraints this morning as this room is going to be used for a training at 10 O'Clock.

So while we do have a number of measures, we're going to ask that folks submit their testimony or in their comments in an expeditious way and we'll do what we can to address these measures and we're going to just jump straight into the business at hand.

The first measure has to do with incorporating or integrating Indigenous Knowledge into policy and decision making processes related to climate. And the first to testify is Office of Hawaiian Affairs in support. We have also the Climate Change and Health Working Group in support on Zoom. Okay, great.

My name is Mehana Kapoi. I'm a native Hawaiian undergraduate student at the University of Hawaii Manoa and I'm a student intern for the Climate Change and Health Working Group. I'm honored to provide testimony on behalf of the working Group.

I come before you representing the representing my ancestors and the importance of perpetuating the vast bodies of knowledge that have been cultivated and crafted for millennia. Indigenous bodies of knowledge have sustained my ancestors for generations. It continues to lead the people of Hawaii today towards sustainable futures in spite of vast environmental degradation and challenges.

The recognition of the importance of those Native Hawaiian and Indigenous bodies of knowledge through this Legislature will set a precedent for the ways in which Hawaii shapes its future, grounded in the expertise of those who know how to live on and with our islands.

Indigenous knowledge due to its vast understanding of Hawaii, our island's ecologies and environments has carried our ancestors through the ebbs and flows of their time, so sustaining their people through generations of environmental change. In its recognition through this resolution, we enable those same knowledges to carry our people today.

This resolution recognizes the importance of Native Hawaiian and Indigenous Knowledge, especially in these times of environmental adversity, and calls for it to be woven into the fabric of Hawaii's future.

It is a step towards climate justice, one that honors and upholds the values of sustainability and resilience that have long been the foundation of Indigenous ways of being and sustaining life.

Thank you so much for your testimony. We also have testimony in support from 350 Hawaii Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii, the Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs, Coalition Earth and 11 individuals in support. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify on this measure, either on Zoom or in person? Are there any questions?

Seeing none, we're going to move on to the next measure, SCR103, which creates a temporary working group to investigate the dangers of PFAS. First to testify on this measure is the Board of Water Supply in support in person.

Good morning. My name is Kathy Mitchell with the Board of Water Supply. We submitted our written testimony in strong support of this measure. Thank you.

Thank you. We also have testimony in support from the Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii, the Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition, Coalition Earth, and two additional individuals in support. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify on this measure? Any questions?

Seeing none, we're going to move on to the next Measure, which is SCR110, which is essentially requesting the State Energy Office to conduct a study looking at the feasibility of the Green Bonds program. First to testify on this measure is the Hawaii State Energy Office with comments in person.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair. Monique Sanfas with the Hawaii State Energy Office. We stand on our written comments. I am available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you so much. We also have testimony from Coalition Earth and one additional individual in support. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify on this measure? Seeing none Members, any questions? Excellent. And also Rep joining us at this point.

Then we're going to move on to the next measure, SCR 111, declaring a public health emergency, relating climate change, relating to climate change and creating cross sector solutions to address the public health response to the climate crisis. First, to testify on this measure we have James McCallan from Hawaii Public Health Institute in support.

Emily Werner, Climate Change and Health Working Group in support in person.

Good morning Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Emily Werner and I'm testifying on behalf of the Climate Change and Health Working Group in support of this measure. We are a group of medical professionals, academics, scientists, students and teachers spanning across the state and focusing on strengthening climate and health resiliency.

I'm currently pursuing my Bachelor's degree at UH Manoa and as a student studying sustainability and an intern for this group, I have learned firsthand climate change's impact on our future, making this issue especially urgent for mine and future generations.

I would like to start off by thanking you and expressing gratitude for all the work that has gone into advancing this resolution. And it is encouraging, empowering and inspiring to see leaders in our state taking action and recognizing the serious impacts climate change imposes on our health.

For my generation and I, who are young people just starting to find our place in these conversations, it is reassuring to know that representatives are listening and taking action. What makes this resolution so important is how it addresses the intersection of this crisis. The health of our earth is directly linked to the health of our public.

It recognizes the need for urgent coordinated action to plan for the long term health of our communities. This resolution not only raises public and policymaker awareness about the connection between climate change and health, it also lays a strong foundation for future legislation.

Climate change is one of the most dire threats to public health today, increasing risk of cardiovascular disease from pollution, heat illness, displacement, injury and fatalities from wildfires in severe weather and food insecurity. Seeing this resolution move forward through the legislative process gives us hope.

With the lack of and inaction of the climate change and health crisis being addressed federally, it is now increasingly important for our state to stand on and continue to support the strong stance on fighting the climate crisis and core values of protecting Hawaii's communities and people. Our futures are reliant on how we respond to this crisis today.

That is why it is crucial to plan and act now before it is too late. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I urge you to pass this resolution.

Thank you so much for your testimony. We also have testimony in opposition from Wahine Okahala on Zoom not present and testimony from Elizabeth Keefer in support in person.

Good morning Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Dr. Elizabeth Keifer, physician and Jabsom faculty testifying. As an individual. I stand on my written testimony in support of this bill, but I'd like to address specific concerns from a previous hearing, namely that climate change is not a real health emergency.

An emergency demands immediate action to prevent harm. Harm prevention organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics among many others have already called climate change a health emergency. There was concern that this Bill quote waters down the urgency of actual public health emergency threats, end quote.

Like the fentanyl crisis, untreated mental illness, rising crime, crumbling infrastructure and affordable housing. Climate change is a threat multiplier. It does not dilute, it amplifies. Emergencies get worse with heat waves, floods and fires in the US as temperatures rise, we see worsening mental illness and drug overdoses.

We even see a rise in crime and violence in a heat wave. Health emergencies like strokes, heart attacks and trauma may increase after a natural disaster because of pre existing crumbling infrastructure. Emergencies like the housing crisis get worse with fire as we've seen on Maui. This is non monetary legislation.

However, it does have an ask that departments look inward and coordinate to identify and plan for solutions to strengthen the health response to this emergency. It does not dilute, it focuses. We don't get to choose emergencies, but we can prepare for one and the other together. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you for your testimony. We also have testimony in opposition from April Lee on Zoom.

Oh, okay, you're calling on me, Correct? Correct. Okay, so could you take one other person first, considering I just had to get my landscaper and I'm now just getting to my notes inside my office.

We will come right back to you. Thank you. Next to testify, we have Eugene Elmer in opposition on Zoom. Okay, we're going to take one more. We have testimony in opposition from James Wallace in person, also not present. That is all we have to testify in this measure. So we're going to go back to try Ms.

Lee one more time if she's available. Again. Yes. So this. You are the final testifier. Your connection is spotty.

Name is April Lee. I am from.

Please proceed. Oh, really? Please proceed. You're fine.

Well, I could hook up to the wire. I will hook.

No, you're fine. Please proceed.

I am fine now. Yes. Okay. I wanted to mention that I am opposed to this.

I am so sorry, but we cannot hear you, and we're just going to have to move on to the rest of the business. Your connection is.

I find the wording a little alarming. Absolutely. In three minutes, I'll get my wireless turned on.

I'm sorry, we're going to have to move on to the next measure. But we have received your written testimony and we have read it.

Yes, and I have done probably eight or nine hours worth of research in addition to get absolute credible scientists to verify what I'm going to say. And I have their names and credentials.

And you have about a minute left. If you can summarize your. Your testimony, then that would. That would be helpful.

Then I will have the Committee. I would have the Committee pay attention to people that wrote things like, is carbon dioxide making the world greener? Which is one of the most brilliant men who have an office at the same office that Einstein did in Princeton.

His name is Freeman Dyson, and for 37 years he's worked on this problem. And he says absolutely, that this carbon buildup is not all that bad and that we have a greener universe because of it, and that the whole thing has been manufactured with very few variables.

When the variables are so complex, you cannot bring it down to things like clouds and CO2 measurements and the fact is that before 1950, they were measuring like the oxides of oxygen. They weren't even measuring with temperatures.

The other thing is that we've got people like Hadi Diwadi, who is a Canadian research chair at the University of British Columbia of Applied Mathematics and Global Change, and he agrees with Richard Lidson, a Professor of meteorology at MIT, that this whole thing has been rather fabricated and that the ideas in the UN protocols, and you read these documents, they've got the words uncertain 37 times and they've got the word errors.

And there is an erroneous factor that we have to deal with many, many times in the 213 page document, inside the 871 page document that lists all the problems that they're bringing up. So they're telling you it's basically the evil telling you what they're going to do to you.

And then when they do it, they don't get much harm, because while we warned you, climate change is a false warning. And the other thing I want to tell you is that there are so many things affecting our atmosphere they're not considering.

There is mostly the activity of the sun, which is brought out by Astrophysicist and climate scientist Dr. William Soon and he says.

Do you mind summarizing, please?

Okay. I do feel there are many brilliant people that are more brilliant than anyone at the UN and they are having dialogues that actually make it very clear, like Steve Hayward of Pepperdine University, that these things are absolutely not being able to be measured by the measurements they're using.

Thank you for that.

We also have the activity of the sun. Thank you, ma' am. Capping of old volcanoes, fracking aerosols. Okay.

We also have testimony in opposition from 47 individuals and seven individuals in support. In addition to what we already referred to. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify in this measure? Seeing none Members, are there any questions?

Okay, then we will be moving on to the next measure, SCR115, essentially affirming the importance of marine ecosystems in the achievement of our state's decarbonization goals. The first to testify on this measure is DLNR with comments on zoom. Not present. Who's the only person in person? Sorry.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair and Committee Members. My name is Kellyanne Kobayashi for the Department of Land and Natural Resources. We stand on our written testimony. Thank you.

We also have testimony in support from Coalition Earth and Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify in this measure? Seeing none Members, any questions? Seeing none. We're going to move on to our next measure, which is. Sorry, there's one additional individual who submitted testimony in support for SCR 115.

So moving on to SCR 132, which encourages the adoption of recommendations from the UN Global Plastics Treaty and Rapa Nui Summit Declaration to address climate justice and sustainable development. First to testify as David Mullineux in support on Zoom not present.

We also have testimony in support from 350 Hawaii Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii and two individuals in support. All in support. Is there anyone else who wishes submit testimony on this measure? Seeing none Members. Any questions? And there would be no one to ask. So it's a moot point.

I mean, no, there'd be no one to ask because no one showed up to testify. zero, yes. So moving on to the next measure, SCR 136, requesting the State Energy Office to convene a Geothermal Energy working group. First to testify on this measure is DBEDT in support. We also have DHHL in support, in person, not present.

DCCA in support, in person. Thank you. The PUC in support, in person.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. I'm Jessica Simon with the PUC. We stand on our written testimony and I'm available for questions.

Thank you. And the State Energy Office in support, in person.

Chair, Vice Chair Monique Sanfas for the Hawaii State Energy Office. We stand in support and I'm available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. So those are the only folks who signed up to testify on Zoom or in person. We also have testimony from Ulupono Initiative in support. Coalition Earth in support. The Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii in opposition. Sustainable Energy Hawaii in support. Go Green Alternative in support.

Gateway for Accelerated Innovation in Nuclear with comments and three individuals in support. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify on this measure? Seeing none Members, Are there any questions? Seeing none. We're going to move on to our second to last measure, SCR 183, affirming reaffirming support for progress achieved by the LOHA plus challenge.

First to testify in this measure we have Emma Yuen from DLNR in support in person.

Aloha. Yeah, I'm with the DLNR in support and just wanted to make a little comment that the Watershed Initiative has a corresponding CIP request in this session that we're seeking to keep on funding it so we can stay on track to reach the 2030 goals. Aloha.

Thank you very much. We also have testimony from the Climate Change and Health Working Group in support on Zoom.

Aloha Kaukou My name is Mehona Kapoi. I'm an undergraduate student at the University of Hawaii Manoa and I'm a student intern for the Climate Change and Health Working Group.

I'm honored to provide testimony on behalf of the Climate Change and Health Working Group in full support of the resolution that asks Hawaii's Legislature to endorse and reaffirm the Aloha Plus Challenge upon its 11th anniversary. The Aloha Plus Challenge represents Hawaii's bold commitment to sustainability, resilience and global stewardship.

Its collaboration into Hawaii Green Growth UN Local 2030 Hub, with the Aloha plus dashboard providing real time, transparent tracking of. Progress. Symbolizes a unified effort in which Hawaii has set ambitious goals uniting communities, business and government toward a shared vision for a sustainable future.

As I mentioned, I am a current student intern for the Hawaii Green Growth and the Climate Change and Health Working Group. Our work in the Climate Change and Health Working Group is deeply informed by the Aloha Plus Challenge. With the clarity and transparency of the Aloha Plus Dashboard helping to elevate our working group's voices.

It serves as a foundation for awareness and action which has the great potential for further empowering people across Hawaii to engage more deeply in the plight towards a sustainable future for Hawaii, our home. The people of Hawaii stand at the forefront of the war against climate change.

This resolution works to prepare and protect the vulnerable that is the people of Hawaii. These works allow for Hawaii's people to be informed, protected and cared for. This resolution is an ask for continued Support of the Aloha Plus Challenge and of the Hawaii Green Growth UN Local 2030 Hub and of the people of Hawaii as a whole.

As we work collectively to navigate these times of environmental uncertainty, the work being done today will create a more resilient, sustainable Hawaii for generations to come. Support this initiative and support the future of Hawaii. Mahalo.

Thank you so much for your testimony. In addition, we have testimony from. The. Hawaii Green Growth Board Executive Member Atlin Clark and two other individuals in support. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify on this measure on Zoom? Oh, sorry, my apologies. You weren't signed up to testify, but we got you. Thank you. Oh yeah.

Thank you. Please proceed.

Aloha and good morning. Thank you so much for having me today. Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Samantha Happ and I am the Network Director for Hawaii Green Growth, which stewards the Aloha Plus Challenge.

I am joining you this morning actually from Guam, so it's quite early here, but I wouldn't miss the opportunity to join you and I'll actually share a little bit more about why I'm in Guam and what that means for Aloha plus to actually cross the Pacific.

But before I do so, I just wanted to affirm that Hawaii Green Growth stands in strong support of this resolution and thanks you very much for the opportunity to offer our testimony today. Just for brief Background the Aloha plus Challenge is Hawaii's statewide commitment to implement Hei na Honae OIA a culture of sustainability.

This is a unique model of partnership around a localized framework that gathers partners from across the public, private, nonprofit, academic, philanthropic sectors to steward community centered and defined goals rooted in local culture and values.

Since its inception in 2014, the Aloha plus challenge has been developed to be a true public good intended to safeguard Hawaii's sustainable development through an accountability dashboard and community convening around shared language and goals, a champion of people, our shared values and the stories that we are proud to tell.

This week alone we are seeing this reach and impact of the Aloha plus Challenge on our island and beyond.

Hawaii Green Growth was invited to the 16th Island Conference on Conference on Island Sustainability in Guam to co host the Green Growth Summit with the Governor of Guam, Lud Leon Guerrero and the University of Guam and Guam Green Growth, which is actually modeled after Hawaii Green Growth and the Aloha Plus Challenge to share our regional connection that our islands including Guam, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, the Republic of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia and our family in Puerto Rico, connecting all of our US Islands and beyond, share with our connection to place and culture and our shared worldview which is really rooted in an island's system thinking approach.

The Aloha Plus Challenge was requested by the leadership of these other islands from across the Pacific to be a catalyst for how others can localize global targets to their place and context, convene partners and drive political, social, environmental and economic progress around ambitious but necessary community driven goals.

Hawaii is represented in Guam by the Hawaii Green Grow Leadership Team and the SDG Youth Council.

And while many of these representatives were young and actually maybe just toddlers when the Aloha Challenge was launched, their enthusiasm and ability to speak to the values that Aloha protects and connects them to affirms that this is not only just built on Hawaii's deep connection to place and ridge to reef thinking that has long contributed to sustainability of our island home, but that its importance is obvious both to current and future generations and that our young people see themselves in this future and as the guardians and protectors of it and that we owe it to them to continue this commitment forward.

That is what sustainability is and that is what a culture of sustainability means to ensure that our communities are well and safe and prosperous now and that they will always be into the future.

Aloha gives us the common language to discuss what this and our goals are and rooted in into tangible policy and action and island realities and a cultural worldview. We believe that a public private partnership and building a true island wide commitment and a Pacific wide family is the only way forward.

Mahalo Nui for the role that you all play in supporting this and thank you for your consideration of SCR183. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for your testimony. So we have no additional testifiers. Is there anyone else who wishes to testify, Members or one more? Okay, thank you.

Aloha Celeste Connors from Hawaii Green Growth calling in from Guam. We stand by our testimony and I just want to cede my time to a Member of the SDG Youth Council who is here representing Hawaii at the Guam Conference in Island Sustainability and the first inaugural Green Growth Conference.

And pua, I might just hand it over to you.

Aloha mai kakou. My name is Pua, I'm 15 years old and the Aloha Green Growth Challenge, that's so important to me that I Woke up at 5 o' clock to be here.

But besides from that, I think that what we are doing here in Guam and what we started in Hawaii, how the Aloha Less Challenge, it really helps our community, our economy, our society in General, because we really just want to make the world a better place. And we're starting in our community, we're starting here in our roots.

But as we're in Guam, we've connected with a lot of the cultures, especially the youth kids from Palo, Guam, Marshall Islands, Puerto Rico. It's really, really inspiring to see that the Guam Green Growth came off of the Aloha Plus Challenge and how our cultures and we're just so interconnected because of the struggles that we all share.

And as we continue to create and build more solutions together as one, it really opens our eyes to see how much the Aloha Plus Challenge can really, can really, can really impact not just a community, but communities. So yeah, that's what I got.

Thank you so much. Thank you for your testimony. Are there any other testifiers? Please come to the podium.

Aloha, everyone. I am Jillian Cristobal Dashboard Coordinator with Hawaii Green Growth. But I stand before you today to submit my personal testimony in full support of SCR198.

The Aloha plus challenge was a commitment that I invested my time and energy in as a AmeriCorps VISTA with the organization and I now steward in my continued role to bring together stakeholders and accountability through this dashboard.

I recognize the importance firsthand of the integration of these goals and coordination of these stakeholders to build a stronger and more sustainable Hawaii around a shared set of goals. Thank you so much for the opportunity to provide testimony before you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. And because I don't see you having signed up, if you could talk to our Committee Clerk and actually if you could get her name and information so we have that for the record and, and that your testimony is documented. Moving.

If there are no, members, questions? We're going to move on to the last measure which is SCR 198. And this measure encourages Hawaii Insurers and Property Insurance Association to reduce insurance costs on local residents by pursuing subrogation claims against polluters. And the first to testify on this measure is the Center for Climate Integrity in support.

We also have testimony from Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party in support. 350 Hawaii in support. Josh Stanbro as an individual in support in person.

Aloha Chair Vice Chair, members of the committee. Josh Stanbro in strong support of this measure. Climate crisis really boils down to risk and economics and we're experiencing that with the Lahaina climate catastrophe that happened forcing insurance to reevaluate whether Hawaii is investable.

One of the ways that you can help stabilize that issue around climate is to make the polluters, who actually caused the problem, help pay and offset costs that our local residents have faced. We saw earlier testimony that cited a bunch of scientists that are saying that climate change is not real.

Those scientists were funded and abetted over a decades long campaign by the fossil fuel industry in order to continually produce profits over our health and our economic well-being. This resolution goes a fair bit to making them pay rather than just sort of accusing them of something. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else who, oh, I'm sorry. There is an additional, additional testimony submitted by two individuals in support and two in opposition. Is there anyone else who would wish to testify in this measure? Seeing none. Members, are there any questions? Seeing none, we're going to move straight into decision making.

So, on the first measure, SCR 93 Chair's recommendation is to pass as is. Are there any issues or questions? Concerns? Vice Chair - or Chair for the vote.

All right. We are voting on SCR 93 Senate Draft 1, recommendation is to pass unamended. [Roll Call]. Recommendation adopted.

Thank you. Moving on to SCR 103 SD1, same recommendation. I'd like to pass it out as is. Questions, concerns? Seeing none. Chair for the vote.

Voting on SCR 103 SD1, recommendation is to pass unamended. [Roll Call]. Recommendation adopted.

Thank you. On SCR 110 SD1, same recommendation; I'd like to pass out as is. Questions or concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair, for the vote.

Voting on SCR 110 SD1, recommendation to pass unamended. [Roll Call]. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. And SCR 111, same recommendation. I'd like to pass it out as is. Questions?

Voting on SCR111 recommendation to pass unamended. [Roll Call]. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. On SCR 115, I'd like to amend the final whereas clause to include "not with now, therefore," but - and inserting a new final whereas clause to read as follows:

"Whereas, in addition to marine ecosystems, Hawaii's fresh and brackish water wetlands play a critical role in capturing and storing carbon, thereby supporting the state's broader climate change mitigation efforts, safeguarding biodiversity and strengthening resilience against the adverse impacts of sea level rise, semicolon, now therefore," and that is my only recommendation. Are there any questions or concerns? Chair for the vote.

Voting on SCR 115 recommendation to pass with amendments. [Roll Call]. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. On SCR 132, I'd like to pass this out as is. Questions, concerns? Seeing none. Chair.

Voting on SCR 132 SD1 recommendation to pass unamended. [Roll Call]. recommendation is adopted.

On SCR 136, I'm going to ask the Chair to make the recommendation.

Thank you. All right, we're going to make some amendments to SCR 136 at the request of the Energy Chair in the Senate and with the concurrence of the introducer of this resolution; we are going to amend this significantly to match up somewhat to what was in Senate Bill 1558.

So, we are going to be requesting the Hawaii State Energy Office convene a nuclear energy working group to study the feasibility of using advanced nuclear power technologies in the state. And then most of the contents will mirror what is in that what we passed out of the house draft of SB 1558.

But we're going to add a couple additional whereas clauses.

Noting that Hawaii's constitution contains a provision that no nuclear fission power plant shall be constructed or radioactive material disposed of in the state without prior approval by 2/3 vote in each house of the legislature and noting that nuclear energy is not currently included under Hawaii's definition of renewable energy under HRS 269-91 and just noting that as Hawaii progresses towards its 2045 renewable energy goals, it's important to consider all options so they can either be pursued or ruled out so that we can focus efforts accordingly.

So, with that, members, any discussion? Vice Chair.

I just wanted to thank you for those additional two whereas clauses because I think that they note important contextual factors that need to be taken into consideration. And while I definitely am clearly opposed to nuclear energy, I'm going to vote with reservations on this bill.

Okay, thank you. No other discussion. Please take the vote.

So, voting on SCR 136 SD1, Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. [Roll Call]. Chair, recommendation has been adopted.

Thank you. Back to you.

Okay, so on SCR 183, Chair's recommendation is to pass out as is. Any questions, issues, concerns? Vice Chair - Chair for the vote.

All right. We are voting on SCR 183 recommendation to pass unamended. [Roll Call]. Recommendation is adopted.

And on the final measure, SCR 198 SD1, we're also recommending to pass out, pass this measure out as is. Any questions or concerns? Seeing none. Chair for the vote.

Voting on SCR 198 Senate Draft 1, recommendation to pass as is [Roll Call]. Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, members, and mahalo for the very expeditious hearing. Appreciate everyone's time and testimony. Aloha.