Senate Standing Committee on Housing

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Joint Committees of Public Safety, Military Affairs, and Housing. This is our 1:00 p.m. joint agenda. Today is April 10, 2025, and we're in Conference Room 225. This hearing is also being streamed on the Hawaii State Senate's YouTube channel.

A few housekeeping announcements: in the unlikely case of technical failures, this meeting will reconvene here in Conference Room 225 on April 11, 2025 at 3:00 p.m--I should say, I'm sorry, at 1:00 p.m. For all testifiers, including those on Zoom, we ask that you stand on your written testimony if your oral testimony is different from your written testimony. The time limit for each testifier will be one minute.

The content, including the hearing notice, copies of the resolutions, and testimony can be found on the Legislature's website. If time permits, decision-making will occur after we hear from all those offering testimony. We only have one item on our joint agenda.

That's House Concurrent Resolution 66, requesting the State Building Code Council to adopt, amend, or update the state building code to authorize point access block construction for residential buildings up to six stories in the state. First up on our list is Perry Arrasmith, from Housing Hawaii's Future, in support.

Then we have Ted Kefalas, Grassroots Institute of Hawaii, in support and Frank Schultz in opposition. That completes our list of registered testifiers. Anyone else that wishes to testify on HCR 66? Okay. If not members - oh, yes. Thank you. OPSD, in support with late testimony. Okay. Anyone else wish to testify on HCR 66? Okay.

If not members, any questions? If not, Co-chair, I'm ready to roll into decision making. Do you have quorum?

We can take the vote after our interview only.

Okay, if you don't mind for, we have quorum on our end. We'll take the vote. Okay, so with that being said. The Chairs having conferred recommendation here on HCR 66 is to pass as is. Any further discuss discussion? If not, Acting Vice Chair Rhoads for the vote. Chair votes aye.

Chair's recommendation on HCR 66 is to pass as is. [Roll Call].

Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you so much. For the Committee on Housing, we don't have quorum, so we'll be DMing on HCR 66 at the end of our one o' clock housing only agenda.

Okay, that concludes our joint agenda. We're adjourned.

Good afternoon and welcome to the 1:00 p.m. HOU-only agenda. I'd like to welcome our Vice Chair Hashimoto and Committee Members Aquino, Kanuha, and Fevella. We have a one-minute time limit per testifier. In the unlikely event that we have to abruptly end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business at a time that will be scheduled and noticed.

If there are temporary technical glitches during your turn to testify via Zoom, we may have to move on to the next person due to time constraints. We appreciate your understanding and remind you that the committee has your written testimony.

We'll first begin with HCR 78, declaring the intent that projects with housing units that qualify for housing credits under Act 31 are still eligible to receive housing credits after the repeal of that act. Our first testifier is HHFTC, in support.

Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. HHFTC stands on our testimony.

Thank you. And then we also have NYA Hawaii Chapter, in support.

Is there anyone else wishing to testify on HCR 78? Okay, if not, any questions, members? Seeing none, we'll move on to our second item, which is Governor's Message 592, submitting for consideration and confirmation to the Board of Directors of HPHA, Lisa Anne Darcy. Our first testifier is HPHA, in support.

Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. Public comment.

Thank you. HPHA Board of Directors, in support, Sam Tanigawa, in support, Grant Bashore, in support, and some late testimony from individuals Francine Walker, Joseph Gabel, and Wayne Tanaka, in support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on Governor's Message 592? Okay. If not, I believe we have our nominee here today. Would you like to come forward and make a statement?

Good afternoon, chair. Good afternoon, vice chair. I'm a little under the weather, so I appreciate your time today and being here and considering my nomination. My name is Lisa Darcy, I reside on the island of Maui, and I have been nominated to serve on this board.

I have accepted the nomination to serve on this board, and having returned from 2015, feel I have a much better understanding of the role, the responsibility, and the vision of what HPHA is, is set out to accomplish. And I thank you for this opportunity today.

Thank you. Members, any questions? Okay, if not, I'll just ask you about the 10,000 unit RFQ that HPHA is undergoing. As you know, HPHA is doing some interesting and innovative things. Do you support this project and how would you help advance it?

I just would like the community to know that I think uniquely, and to see a project like this which is so unique come forward is exciting. I'm not going to pretend to know that I know all of the ins and the outs of the financial responsibilities or the legal responsibilities.

I know the board gets enormous amount of guidance for that. I can tell you that just the concept of that coming forward is something that I'm very interested in learning more about and really interested to see how it can be applied here in Hawaii, since Hawaii is a leader in many ways with public housing.

Is there anything you think that HPHA should be doing?

Oh, my gosh, yeah. We don't have the whole day. One of the pieces, I think, that it's unique to the skill set that I have is to really integrate the fiduciary, the legal, the ethical, and where the rubber hits the road kind of work that needs to be done.

I've seen many projects come forward that on paper look really good, and then following them along, their accountability has wavered. I cannot say I've seen anything like that happen with Hawaii Public Housing Authority Board in the years that I did serve.

Everything that they have done has been to the extent, to the maximum extent of support that can happen for any project, and even when there were some difficulties with development, the team was able to resurrect and keep projects moving. I am very much impressed with the staff that are on board and definitely the legal team which guides us through every single meeting.

Thank you. Members, any--Vice Chair.

Thanks, Ms. Darcy, for being here. What is your take on the response that Hawaii Public Housing Authority has, I guess, done in response to the--all the news articles that have been coming out on Kuhio Park Terrace and the relocation of those residents? Do you believe it's been sufficient? Are you satisfied with what's been happening there and what, as a board member, you know, would you, would you do about those kind of things?

Okay, so as you know, Maui is very different from Oahu, and I can't--I'm not sure what articles you're referring to. I do have a lot of experience with the media and what--how media can take one piece of something and it is not the context of what's happening.

So I apologize that I don't really know what articles you're actually speaking of and how that is. I can say that if there are pieces that are not being represented, then I think that Hawaii Public Housing--I do support them--having a stronger presence in explaining and identifying context. Context is often not accompanying in media pieces.

And I can say from the amount of time that I have spent on the board that I have been absolutely fascinated with the complexity of any sort of a project that moves forward, and again, how aggressively Hawaii has been in terms of creating new locations and utilizing every dollar that they have.

I believe we lead the nation in creating new housing opportunities. So that said, like I said, I'm sorry I don't actually know which articles you're talking about, but I do believe that--

Basically, the crux of the matter is that people are dissatisfied with the plan of relocating these residents for the redevelopment of the low rises at Kuhio Park Terrace, so they're going to the media, they're complaining. I think at a certain point, if they're going to the media, I think at some point we should be concerned.

I think either have a right to say what they want. I think the Public Housing Authority is going to tell you one thing, but what are you as a board member going to do to figure out if what they're saying is valid or are you just going to believe what Public Housing Authority is telling you?

Yeah. So this is actually a kind of a fascinating place to be, no matter what your position is if you have to work with the media. I--

Well, I don't think it's about the media at the end of the day. It's really, you read about in the media--

Wait, okay. I'll finish.

Are you going to dig further? Are you going to just say, 'oh, that's the news media, we can't believe the news media,' and then just move on your day?

You know, I certainly don't want to speak for the whole board. My experience is, I, personally, is having, like I said, worked with the media, I do my best to make sure that information that provides context is available.

I work with a lot of disgruntled people in life, housed and unhoused--it really makes no difference--and those sound bites can be very detrimental and they can derail projects or they can derail the way people think, and if they are, they are just one tiny piece of a, of the, of the context, then it, I think it would be helpful for Hawaii Public Housing to consider a way to make sure that the entire context is put forward and that it maybe backs up the, what it, you know, what it has done and the decisions that it's made. These are not easy. None of these decisions are easy.

But during your time on the short time that you've been on the board, has this discussion happened at the board level?

Not on the board level, no, but it's been requested. We're looking to approach this. Yes, it's important. I think it's really important.

And what would you do? What would your response be to this kind of thing?

As a board member?

Are you concerned about it or are you just kind of like, 'oh, I'm just reading about it?' You know?

No, like I said, you know, I have a lot of experience with media and anger. So you have to also take into context how much of this is impacting the decision-makers and do decision-makers actually have the knowledge--

But you're the decision maker, right? As the board member of HPHA, you ultimately oversee the staff or the executive director.

Right.

So what are you going to do about those kind of things if you're--so my whole point is, what are you doing about the accountability of HPHA because part of it is you as the board member need to really understand what is happening and you need to respond and you have to take appropriate action. I think we're not necessarily looking for people to just go in and believe everything the staff tells them. You have to be the check.

Oh, yes, I'm sure. Have you--okay. That has never been my position, and I think people who know me and work with me--

Well I think we need to make sure that we know that.

Okay, so how do I catch you up on the years of accountability that I've been working on in my--okay. So I would--my first point of interest would be how do other Hawaii Public--or how do different public housing authorities handle this and is there a way--or maybe even ask what, what is it that people need to know if it's just--if people are very angry, yes, people have a right to vent and the media does like that kind of stuff, but we do--then we need to get the information out and find a way to get the information out to have people understand how complex it is to make these decisions and that a lot of times there's a lot of discomfort with them. And what do we need to do?

This is a piece that's missing in a lot of our work is how do we help people to feel like they have agency over decisions that are made above their heads? And this happens all day long in every organization and every organization can get better. It is important that every single person know that there are--that this board is working as hard as they can to make any transition they have the easiest possible based on the legal, the financial, all the constraints, you know, the contractual restraints that they have. I mean, there's--it's very complicated.

It's not a simple reply to just say, oh, just give me a microphone and I can go interview people and say, hey, did you actually get the paperwork? What does that look like? Do you need help with your computer? Maybe people don't--can't access certain things and so they don't even get the information so they get angry. There's so many--

I get that there's a, it's complex, but I think as you, as the board member, what are you going to do when your power is to oversee the executive director? What is it that you're going to do to remedy something like this?

Right. Okay. So what I hear you saying is you would like me to take some of this action, and I think it is a good action.

Don't you think so, or is it not your role?

Yeah, it's not that I don't think it's not my role. Like I said, the Hawaii Public Housing Authority Board is--it's a beast of an organization.

Right, so say if you're not up to it, then we need to know that as well.

Oh my goodness. Well, I think that's your decision, and I appreciate that. I make peace with my morning and my evening every day. I do feel like I'm up to it. I respect whatever decision you want to make.

I also need you to know that this is not something that there is a history so that we can just rubber stamp something or do something with it that, you know, will--there's no magic wand to this, and if you do have recommendations on how it could be handled or if you feel transparency is not being afforded to you, I mean, we're very open and interested in hearing about that.

Well, that's your role as a board member, right? You need to get into the weeds of what's happening and make sure that oversight is happening because this is one of many things. Do you know what's going on at School Street and how long that School Street is taking to get off the ground?

So I was present during that, and I can say I've never been more proud of a board in my entire life, not that I've been on every board around. However, the way this group handled it and the way that the actual board handled it was so generous and pushed every single opportunity forward to keep all of the players involved who were not able to--for whatever reasons, through Covid, staff changes, whatever, all the things that happened--this board afforded the individuals that had responsibilities to come to the table. It gave them every opportunity to meet those deadlines, to meet those needs.

Yeah, but that's part of the problem. You guys weren't asking enough tough questions to move the project forward.

Well, we may disagree there.

No, because then, you know, at the end, we had to get rid of the developer and switch it out but was the board the one pushing that? I don't think so. I think the Legislature had to get involved to make that happen. So we're trying to figure out is the board doing the things to keep the Public Housing Authority on track?

I will remind you, though, that the board did actually hire a separate group to review what happened and we were very much supported in every step that we took in how we took it. So maybe we could discuss the, you know, exactly what--how you saw it or how I saw it because I was part of that board. Yeah, I did see it differently. And just to be honest with this board, I'm not going to be able to dig into every weed as a board member. This isn't--

No, but at the end of the day, action is important. So if projects are so delayed and the board doesn't think that there's a problem, then that's concerning to us. And that's, that's your role in my mind, that you have to make sure that you're keeping them on track, and if you're not seeing progress, then you should be really concerned. Don't you think?

Well, you know that Hawaii is leading the nation in creating new housing opportunities.

In the Public Housing Authority? We have not built one unit. How are we leading the nation?

What is in the pipeline in the aggressive nature of creating 45,000--

That's correct. So we better make sure that the pipeline happens. So what I'm asking is, what are you going to do to make sure that that happens?

I don't know that I'm going to--if you're asking for something different, I don't know that I'm going to do anything differently. I have been welcomed to ask difficult questions, to even ask repetitive questions.

I have been completely welcomed on this board to dig into anything that I need to and the patience that this board has had even for me to not understand because this is--I don't--contracts and, you know, 45 million, billion dollars are not necessarily something I--

All I want from you is that you're going to actually do that and you're not going to just sit on that board and not say anything. Can you just tell me that you're going to--

Well, I'm going to welcome you to come to a meeting and ask--

We watch all your meetings--

And have you never seen a meeting where I haven't asked, I asked questions or--

Well I want to make sure. That's why you were here. You're supposed to confirm that you're going to do that.

I'm going to be looking for you.

Okay. Well, we watch every meeting online.

Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah, we welcome that. I ask everything that I know possible to ask and discuss everything that I need to--I feel possible.

Because at the end of the day, if we don't get projects done, then people just can't be housed, right? And so there is a sense of urgency that I hope every board member takes to heart that there is a sense of purpose that we need to have.

So just to let you know, I do work with people that live unhoused and unsheltered and homeless in Maui.

And so you should be the first, first one who knows that urgency.

And so as you know, as you are my rep, you know how hard I work and you know the urgency and you know I sit with people when they're dying, and I need you to understand that is not something I take lightly, and the policy that is made around this without any of our input often is beyond frustrating and the insight that I have into that is probably unmatched.

And if you don't understand my sense of urgency, my sense of understanding these larger projects, then I would like to spend a lot more time with you and really and educate you on what that looks like. It is very difficult to show up every day. It's very difficult.

No, I'm sure. So I think all we want, all I want is your commitment that you continue to do that.

My commitment has never wavered.

Good.

45 years. My commitment has never wavered.

Good. Very good. Thank you, chair.

Thank you so much. Senator Fevella.

Yes. I just want to kind of piggyback on what was previously said. So in the beginning, I guess you kind of misunderstood the question. He's not asking on what the media and the sound bite is doing, but he's asking are you as a board member hearing about it, not only watching our news, watching an article, maybe watching the hearing that they came talking about being misplaced and relocated in areas that wasn't presentable for these families that is being relocated.

That's the question that I think he never hear from you but you talking about not waiving and how you're dedicated and all of that while he was trying to ask you and you didn't answer because you kept on talking about how you work with the media. I don't really care about how you work with the media.

I like know, did you as a board member watch the hearing when these families was coming and telling them relocation? Was it adequate? Did you go check if those houses was presentable because they was talking about cockroaches, they're talking about insects, rodents. The kitchen and everything was just too small. Housing was too small.

I mean, you don't want to take somebody that was in a housing area and saying, you know, we're going to renovate this place and we're going to relocate you guys. You cannot relocate somebody to a tent. You got to relocate somebody to someplace that is not suitable.

So what I think my colleague was asking, did you watch the hearing? Did you see the article? Did you see the sound bite, get a sound bite, whatever, but did you go out to the project and see what they were saying? Because everybody gonna be angry. We know that.

But that, but that's, that shouldn't be an excuse for you as a board member. There's some people gonna be angry and they're gonna talk to the media about this, about me. Yeah, we know, and I know because I talk to the media a lot. So I understand that they're gonna take other things out of content.

But did you actually go down there, the ones that was in the hearing, and go down there and actually see, physically see what kind of trauma they're going through with this renovation or this improvement that they're doing for the housing and moving forward so that everybody can be happy--the developer, housing, whatever--to be happy.

That's what I think I, I didn't hear you answer. You talking about, about working 18, 30 years or whatever. That's all great stuff, but me, I'm a person that--I'm a hands-on person, so when I get a complaint in my community, I don't just wait till the thing hit the news; I go down there and I go check it out, that they're dumping rubbish. It went park in my community.

Even though that's the city issue, I go down there and tell the park, why are you guys dumping rubbish right next to the basketball, tennis ball court? So I don't wait till it comes on a news, a sound bite, whatever; I go over there and check it out, and that's all we asking. If you win, go to the area and talk to--

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate your, your clarifying.

I wasn't finished though. I understand. So let me finish. So that, that's what the frustration is because you're talking about all your accolades, all your things that you did over the years. Of course you did a lot of good things. You do, you work with the homeless, all of that. That's all good intentions.

But things that concern us is when it comes to us. Before it goes to the media, before it comes to anything like that, did the board ever went out there together individually before the project would start and talk to the people at the housing area and saying this is what's going to happen and if you guys can reach out to us, if you guys have concerns. And that's all pretty much what everyone's asking.

Thank you. And I shall clarify. So I apologize that I did not accurately or acceptably answer that. What you've made me think to do is to make sure that Maui has--and all the other islands--that there is a budget for us to be able to fly over and to investigate these things, because, you know, I am in Maui and we do our meetings remotely. So when something happens on Big Island or something happens on Oahu, I don't know that we are budgeted to go fly and go and just investigate these things.

So this is a good recommendation, and I think I should definitely put that forward to make sure that there are monies and to be able to respond very quickly wherever we are and what we're doing. So, no, I don't, I didn't see that, and I'm sorry, sorry that was unclear.

I said I did not see the articles that were written. I do see many of those, and just to be clear is I do assist people to actually write those articles themselves. I work very closely with people to bring their concerns forward.

So I identify with that group very closely on having to sometimes accept sub-conditions where we don't want them to happen, and, you know, you said you don't want people to go live in tents, but in some ways, maybe that's an option we should consider. Maybe that would even be better.

You know, Maui has a whole tent city, so maybe we should consider that, maybe that you're bringing a lot of good ideas up and maybe we should be considering tents. These are things that if you feel strongly about, then I'm definitely listening to you. I hear you. So I--yeah, I didn't, I didn't see that, and I--we don't--I haven't known the board to respond when something comes into the media for us to just go and show up anywhere. If you're recommending that--

So how much board members that we have that is on Oahu? You're on a neighbor island. So how much board members do we have on Oahu?

I think we have four or five.

Okay. So like I said, like I just said, so maybe you cannot go on because of financial situation or tight--so did any of those four or five board members that you know in any of the meetings ever brought it to the meeting or on Zoom or whatever you guys are, said, you know, I went down there to check it out. Man, you know, these guys are very upset, and then they're not happy with what's happening.

And then you can chime in with all your experience and say, maybe we will do this or do that. What I'm saying is that we're not putting everything on you; we're putting it on the board but you are here to answer the questions that you had just answered. And that's what we wanted.

We wanted just an answer. Maybe you couldn't go to the project, you couldn't go there because of your situation with flying, which is great, but there's other ways of reaching out to Oahu besides being there physically. So that's all it is.

We just want to see how much further people--not just you, but people on the board--is going to take it because we're the ones get the phone calls and the emails and a pack full of people, very unhappy, disabled, and special needs families out there in the hearing, and we want answers, and then that's basically all it is, you know, and that's all we want from the board and from you going forward. Thank you, chair.

Thank you. Members, any further questions? Okay. If not, thank you so much. Move on to our next Governor's message today, which is GM 736 for the board of directors of HHFDC Grant Chun. Our first testifier is DBEDT in support, followed by HHFDC in support.

Chair, Vice Chair, HHFDC is in strong support of the nomination of Grant Chun to serve on our Board of Directors. HHFDC has a nine-member board. One member has to represent the interests of nonprofit housing advocates. Mr. Chun has a great deal of experience in this regard. For seven years he served as the Executive Director of Hale Mahaolu.

He's on the Executive Council of AARP Hawaii presently and he's also on the has been active with Hale Makua Health Services. Mr. Chun is also very knowledgeable of real estate matters in general. For many years he served as a Vice President for Alexander and Baldwin Properties, where he led the company's Maui office.

So, we feel he would not just be an asset for HHFDC but also be an asset for the state in general to help solve our affordable housing problems.

Thank you. Hawaii Housing Finance LLC in support. AARP Hawaii in support. Thank you. Young Brothers LLC in support. Several other individuals in support.

Hawaii Home Ownership Center, Hale Mahaolu, Highridge Costa, Karey Kapoi, Nikki Center, Meredith Ching, Gil Keith Agaran, Edward Romson, Michelle Loudermilk, Jeremiah Anna, Tony Gaston, Emily Porter, Danya Sui, Natalie Keane, Stanley Kuriyama, Carolyn Davis, Carol Riemann. Thank you. Trevor Tokishi, in support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on GM736? Okay.

If not, we have the nomination here - nominee here.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, Vice Chair and members of the committee. I am Grant Chun and appreciate your time and consideration in this appointment. I've accepted the nomination and would be pleased to be able to serve the people of the State of Hawaii in this manner. Thank you.

Thank you. Members, do we have any questions for the nominee?

Where do you reside right now?

Wailuku, Maui.

So, Hale Makua, excuse me, and you are presently one of the members of the board of directors?

Yes.

So just a question because you know, we visit a while back that area and stuff like that, but what is the, as a board member there, what is you guys' future improvements on the care of our seniors in that home?

Because regardless of the fact you guys don't have a good track record, not, not you, but the people that's working there, doesn't have a good track record in taking care of our elderly and our families that is going to the area.

So I just wanted to know what was your take on because you're part of the directors on your observation of how things are working there at that facility?

Well, to be perfectly transparent, my mom lived her last days at Hale Makua. She just passed away in October and we found the care there to be very compassionate and very thorough. We as a family found great comfort in the courtesy and professionalism of the staff there.

You might be referring, Senator, to the fact that Hale Makua and organizations, such as Hale Makua, are terribly understaffed such that they're not able to open their entire facility to the community to accommodate our elders who need nursing care because they don't have adequate staff. And I know that that's a industry wide and nationwide issue.

I am aware, however, that Hale Makua has been engaged in workforce development initiatives, which have made some inroads, and hopefully over the longer term will successfully address that particular concern over the longer period. I also am aware that in terms of the future, the organization has some pretty extensive plans to grow and improve the facility.

Having visited the facility, you are aware that it is in essentially a large county owned recreational area, a portion of which has been allocated for the construction of a rehabilitation rehab center which will be, I think, of great benefit to our community.

As one of the board of directors, besides having, you know, the experience with your mom having great care, did you ever talk to other family members in the area as being a board of directors and finding, I mean, because you know, I'm not saying because you're the board of directors, they gave your mama great care.

No, they gave you great care because they're doing a great job. But having other people come and address the situations that they was experiencing while their family was there. Did you ever run into people like that? Thank you for answering that. I just had to get that out because I just couldn't tell you why, truthfully.

So, my grandfather before him passing told me on his deathbed would never put my grandmother there because of the conditions. And that was a while ago. Just that's why I'm asking you for more of an update. This was about 20 something years ago and we never put her there.

She ended up passing away in Oahu and then we took her back to Maui.

But as being the Financing Director, I mean on the financing and the development of corporation, what kind of accountability you're going to be holding them when it comes to housing projects that it is being delayed or having problems getting off the ground. What kind of initiative are you going to take to getting these projects and making sure it's financially, not only we have the money, but still on budget and on time?

Well, I think the important thing for our board members to ask the right questions and be diligent in terms of current initiatives, initiatives that have been in the pipeline for a while, initiatives that maybe have been delayed. I realize that agencies such as this aren't involved in every aspect of a development.

They provide the financing for pretty much others to do that work.

But to the extent that the financing has been made through this channel, the accountability you refer to I think is such that it's incumbent upon board members to ask the right questions and to ensure that the right kind of reporting is provided so that we can understand if there are issues that shouldn't be issues.

What do you think, as a board member is the biggest, besides you guys have the contract, what is the biggest delay in the projects through the pipeline? What is the biggest delay for you guys? Is it permitting?

Yeah, I mean, I can answer that from personal experience because my role at Hale Mahaolu, which is frequently confused with Hale Makua, was to develop affordable rental housing. Not all of our projects were financed using low-income housing tax credits. Some were and of recent, many are.

However, there's a very significant lag time that exists on all the islands, particularly Maui and Oahu as I understand it.

From the time that the review period for a building permit, even for a single-family residence is at least a year, and for something more complex like a multifamily affordable housing complex, you'd be lucky to have your documents reviewed within a year.

The reason why I asked that question recently, I had talked to some of my colleagues. We wanted to - if you think, because the permits is one of the reasons, not all the reasons, but one of the reasons of holding up these projects to the pipeline, I was trying to have a bill passed through the Senate to have a state have their own permitting department for all state jobs, all kinds of jobs, just like what you just was talking about, not just on Oahu, but all state jobs going forward to help out with moving the projects along.

Would you think that would be an idea moving forward, all state projects?

I suppose if the Senate saw fit to move on such an initiative and adequately support and fund such an initiative, there's potential for greater efficiency to occur. Because right now it's very difficult.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair, appreciate you. Thank you.

Thank you. Senator.

Thank you for the shout out to my bill. Do you have any other, do you have any other questions for the nominees? I have some questions. So, as you may know, this committee has been very interested in helping to finance housing in the state much more efficiently.

As you know, your agency has received over a billion dollars in state appropriations over the course of the last decade, most of which has been dedicated to LIHTC gap financing. As you know, these loans are very long term, they're very slow revolving, they don't pay anywhere close to market interest.

And there's been an effort to try to do faster revolving loans for revenue neutral income blind projects that would dramatically increase the pace of housing construction statewide.

What are your thoughts about this initiative and how can we ensure that these precious taxpayer funds that your agency is responsible for stewarding are expended in the most efficient manner possible to deliver the most housing possible?

I'm not that familiar with the initiative, Senator. You did me the courtesy of mentioning it previously, so I've had a little bit of time to think about it. I think to the extent - I think it's all about resources.

So to the extent that resources are allocated appropriately to accommodate for sort of an income blind program and product to be provided to the community such that financing could, as you say, revolve at a quicker pace than 40 years. Intuitively it makes sense to me that, you know, the resources could then be churned back into the system and back into more construction.

Of course, I'm not familiar with the details. I know it's at this point it's a, it's an idea that's being constructed, considered by this body. But all by itself, it sounds like it might have potential.

You do have extensive experience in the private sector. I don't know if you've managed a portfolio this large before, what would you say, how would you say we can reform our lending practices in order to generate the most bang for the buck for the taxpayers?

Well, I don't know if it's about lending practices so much as how the funds provided through, say, the rental housing revolving fund, for instance, are defined and earmarked and prioritized. Lending practices can only change from the very long-term financing that we currently experience if there's more revenue generated to service alone. Right, and so the to the extent the, we talked about this a little bit, Senator, to the extent that RHRF Tier 2, for instance, is defined and allocated in such a way that is a priority income neutral, I guess you would call it, housing; to me, that would be sort of a foundation for the quicker turnaround of the dollars that you reference.

Okay. Members, any further questions? Okay, if not, thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right, I think we're ready to go into some decision making. So we'll start with this hearing agenda and we'll move at the end to the. To do decision making on the joint resolution that we had with the PSM Committee earlier in this hearing slot.

All right, so, Members for HCR66 requesting that the State Building Code Council adopt. Oh, sorry, that's. Sorry, that was. That's going at the end. HCR78 declaring the intent that projects with housing units that qualify for housing Credits under Act 331 are still eligible to receive housing credits after the repeal of that act.

Chair's recommendation will be to pass unamended questions or discussions? If not for HCR78, Chair's recommendation is to pass unamended. Chair votes Aye.

Members HCR78 Chair's recommendations passed on amendment. [Roll Call] Chair recommendations adopted.

Thank you. For GM592, Lisa Ann Darcy for the Board of Directors for the Hawaii Public Housing Authority, Chair's recommendation will be to advise and consent. Members, any discussion. Okay. If not again, GM592 Chair's recommendation is to advise and consent. Chair votes Aye.

Members GM592 chair's recommendations to pass with advising consent. Any Members voting with reservations. Any Members voting no. Without others voting I recommendations adopted for.

GM736 for Grant Chun as Board of Directors for the Hawaii Housing Finance and Development Corporation. Chair's recommendation is to advise and consent. So again, GM736 recommendation is to advise and consent. Chair votes.

I have a quick comment. Oh, sure. I just wanted to thank Grant for applying. And I think he is going to be a great addition to HHFDC. So we look forward to you working on some of their issues that they're facing with reforming some of the financing and reforming some of the processes.

And I think, you know, since you don't have nothing to do, hopefully you can spend some time to help them out. So thanks for, for agreeing to do this.

Thank you, Vice Chair. All right, any other discussion?

Okay. All right. Recommendation for GM736 advising consent share votes aye. Any Members voting with reservations? Any Members voting no? With all others voting Aye. Recommendations adopted.

Okay, thank you. And then for HCR 66, which was the joint resolution jointly referred to PSM and HOU requesting the state Building Code Council to adopt, amend or update the state building code to authorize point access block construction for residential buildings up to six stories in the state.

Having conferred, the Chair's recommendation is to pass unamended any discussion. Okay. So again for HCR66, Chair's recommendation is to pass unamended. Chair votes Aye.

Members HR66 Chair's recommendations passed on amendment. Chair votes Aye. Any Members voting with reservations? Any Members voting no? With all others voting Aye. Recommendations adopted.

Thank you. There being no further business, this hearing is adjourned.