Senate Standing Committee on Transportation and Culture and the Arts

Good afternoon, everyone. Will the joint committees on Public Safety, Military Affairs and Transportation, and Culture and Arts please come to order? This is our 3:00 PM agenda. Today is March 24, 2025, and we're in Conference Room 225. This hearing is also being streamed on the Hawaii State Senate's YouTube channel. Few housekeeping announcements.

In the unlikely case of technical failures, this meeting will reconvene here in Conference Room 225 on March 28th, 2025, at 3:00 PM. For testifiers, including those on Zoom, we ask that you stand on your written testimony. If your oral testimony is different from your written testimony, the time limit for each testifier will be one minute.

The content, including the hearing notice and copies of the bills and testimony can be found on the Legislature's website. If time permits, decision making will occur after we hear from those offering testimony. First up is SCR 32, SR 18.

This is requesting the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation to collaborate with the Department of Transportation to use inmate work furlough programs for state roadway and highway maintenance. First up on our list, Director Tommy Johnson from DCR. Okay, thank you. Mark Patterson, Chair of the Hawaii Commission on Oversight, or Commissioner Torney.

Martha Torney, Commissioner with the Correctional System Oversight Commission. I just want to make it clear we support the intent of this, and we have always supported using community service work lines to do this kind of work. Our concerns though are using it for work furlough.

As stated in the resolution, the purpose of work furlough is the inmate work furlough program provides eligible inmates with an opportunity to actively job seek, establish financial stability, develop social skills, and find appropriate housing prior to release from incarceration.

The definition for furlough, found in the Department's furlough policy, is furlough is an authorized, unescorted, temporary leave of absence from a designated facility or residence. So, we want to ensure that the inmates who are on work furlough participating in this program are making at least minimum wage.

And it's important that they earn money for it because as they're getting ready to be released, they have restitution, they need to satisfy child support and other things they need to satisfy, and to save money. And we just want to make sure this does not impact the timing release from the facility. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Director Sniffin or Deputy Director Shishido online on Zoom.

Hi, good afternoon, Chairs and Vice Chairs, Member of the Committee. We stand by our written testimony in support. Thank you.

Thank you. Then we have Frank Schultz in support. That completes our list of registered testifiers for SCR 32 and SR 18. Anyone else that wishes to testify on these two measures? If not, Members, questions? If not, I'll turn it over to Co-Chair Lee.

Thank you. Moving on to the next set of measures, SCR 199, SR 179, urging increased caution concerning foreign influence in infrastructure. Up first, testimony from—I'm going to take both of these together, as we have been—three individuals but no one had signed up to testify.

Is there anyone in the room with us or I guess online wishing to testify on SCR 199 and SR 179? Okay, seeing none. And seeing as there's no one to ask questions of, let's move on to the next set of measures, SCR 231 and SR 207.

Requesting the Department of Transportation to install and utilize electronic equipment at each state airport and harbor to scan for illegal fireworks. And up first is the Oahu Filipino Community Council in support and Matson Navigation with comments. And we have testimony from three individuals, two in support and one in opposition. That's everyone who had signed up to testify.

Is there anyone here in the room with us or online wishing to testify on SCR 231 and SR 207?

Aloha, Chair Lee, for DOT?

Yep. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. I'm Deputy Director of Transportation, Dre Kalili. I think we submitted late testimony, and we support the intent and are available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on these two measures? All right, seeing none. Are there any questions? Okay, seeing none. That is the end of the joint resos on our 3:03 o'clock agenda. Okay, Chairs having conferred, I'd like to turn it back over to the PSM Committee for first set of resolutions.

Okay, thank you, Co-Chair Lee. First up is—we're now in decision making. This is SCR 32, SR 18. This is requesting the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation to collaborate with the Department of Transportation to use inmate work furlough programs for state roadway and highway maintenance. Recommendation here is to pass as is for both resos. Any further discussion?

If not, Senator Wakai for the vote. Chair votes aye.

[Roll Call]

Thank you. Thank you. TCA Committee, same recommendation.

Okay. Chairs, the Committee on Transportation and Culture and the Arts. Chair's recommendation on SCR 32 and SR18 is to pass unamended.

[Roll Call]

Thank you. Okay, so moving on to our next four resolutions. Thanks. For SCR 199, SR 179, let's recommend actually splitting these up, deferring the SCR because there's actually another similar one and moving SR 179 with amendments.

Just amending to clarify sort of goals of being more self-sufficient here in Hawaii and more clearly recognized local self-reliance and self-determination and calling for scrutiny by departments and agencies accordingly, and just in general, eliminating our dependence on imports here in Hawaii. Any discussion? Seeing none, Vice Chair, with amendments.

And that's only SR 179?

Yeah. SR 179.

For the Committee on Transportation and Culture and the Arts, Chair's recommendation on SR 179 to pass with amendments.

[Roll Call]

For the Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs, we're going to same recommendation, defer SCR 199 and SR 179 we're going to pass with amendments. Any discussion? If not, Senator Wakai for the vote. Chair votes aye.

[Roll Call]

Thank you. Finally moving on to SCR 231, SR 207. Recommendation here is to pass with amendments, simply addressing the concern raised by Matson by including language regarding inspections—regarding conducting inspections—at a place appropriately outside the immediate area that would otherwise conflict with loading and unloading. Discussion on that one? If not, Vice Chair.

For the Committee on Transportation and Culture and the Arts, Chair's recommendation on SCR 231 and SR 207 to pass with amendments. With five Members present, any voting with reservations? Any no votes? Hearing none and seeing none. Mr. Chair, measure is adopted.

Thank you. Okay. And for the Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs, same recommendation to pass with amendments. Any discussion? Okay. If not, Senator Wakai for the vote. Chair votes aye.

[Roll Call]

Thank you. With that, we are adjourned.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Senate Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs. This is our 3:05 Agenda. We apologize for the delayed start. We did have a joint meeting before this. Today is March 24th, 2025, and we're in conference room 225. This hearing is also being streamed live on the Hawaii State Senate's YouTube channel.

Few housekeeping announcements. In the unlikely case of technical failures, this meeting will reconvene here in Conference Room 225 on March 28, 2025, at 3:00 PM. For all testifiers, including those on Zoom, we ask that you stand on your written testimony.

If your oral testimony is different from your written testimony, the time limit for each testifier will be one minute. The content, including the hearing notice, copies of the bills, and testimony can be found on the on the Legislature's website. If time permits, decision making will occur after we hear from those offering testimony.

Okay, first up on our list is SCR113, SR94. This is requesting the Governor to issue a proclamation designating Hawaii as a Purple Heart State on August 7, 2025. We didn't receive any testimony for this. There's no one to ask questions of. So we'll move on to our next item which. Which is scr204, sr164.

This is requesting the Department of Law Enforcement to provide information related to disposal, detonation and destruction of explosive fireworks and similar hazardous materials in the state. First up on our list, Director of Law Enforcement Mike Lambert or Deputy Director Radula offering comments. And then we have Terry Chang, individual and support. That completes our list of registered testifiers.

Anyone else on STR204 or SR164? If not, move on to our next items. SCR107, SR88, requesting each branch of the United States military in the state to provide shelters that can withstand hurricanes with winds of over 200 miles per hour for all of their active and retired personnel and families living in the state.

We didn't get any testimony for this. Okay. We also didn't receive any testimony for this. So anyone on Zoom it?

No one on Zoom chair?

Okay, thank you so much. We'll move on to our next Items, which is SCR148, SR119, strongly supporting the construction of a floating dry dock at Pearl Harbor. First up on our list is AN Chung for Pacific Marine. In support. Okay, thank you.

We also have the Director of DBEDT and from the Office of Military and Community Relations, Mac Rold for the Department of Business, Economic Development and Tourism. In support, Ian Wood for Pacific Shipyards International. In support, Jason Chung, Military Affairs Council. In support, Michael Guluchuch Sr. Gary Johnson, Bill Clifford, and Ken Louie all in support.

Is there anyone else for these two items, SCR148 or SR119? If not Members, questions? Okay, move on to our next item.

SCR149, SR120, requesting the office of the State Marshal to convene a vegetation management working group to study, evaluate and make recommendations for regulations that define property owner obligations for vegetation management on public and private property to mitigate wildfire risks. First up is from the Director of DLIR, Labor Director Butai. Okay, offering comments. Thank you, Michael Angelo.

DCCA Afternoon Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Michael Angelo, Executive Director, Division of Consumer Advocacy. I'm going to largely stand on my written testimony, but add two personal stories that I think highlight the emphasize the need for this resolution. One and the complexities around who manages vegetation.

One, there was a failure of a drop down from a service transformer outside of my house that failed. Large sparks flying all over the place. Huge fire hazard. The pole actually caught on fire. Fire Department had to stand up.

That was due to climbing vines coming up around ornamental shrubs that had been set up around the utility pole. And becomes a question of whose responsibility it is to remove those fines and where they are.

And the second is a few months later there was a bamboo stand that contacted the lines and caused sparking called the Fire Department. There was so much sparking that day that they said call us back if you have a if you see anything burning.

So that is concerning because that is an ignition source in two cases months apart. And there's the complexities around who's responsible for managing that vegetation, the private landowner, the utility company, depending on where it is on the infrastructure. Thank you.

Thank you. Don Chang DLNR okay, in support offering comments, Leo Sunchin from the PUC.

Representative, Good Afternoon Chair, Vice Chair and Members. My name is Kyra Howe, utility analyst at the PUC. We stand on our written testimony providing comments and in support and we're available for questions.

Okay, thank you. Janine Suki for Hawaiian Telecom on Zoom.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, we too will stand on our testimony offering comments and requesting an amendment and are here for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Wendy Oda for Hawaiian Electric in support.

Good afternoon Chair and Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Wendy Oda and I'm here on behalf of Hawaiian Electric. We have submitted written testimony but like to add to our testimony.

Hawaiian Electric understands the community's concerns about wildfire risk and believes the formation of the vegetation management group is the first step in defining property owner obligations to perform vegetation management on public and private property to address wildfire mitigation.

Hawaiian Electric understands and is sensitive to the major challenges to vegetation management and landowner compliance, but looks forward to participating in the vegetation management working group. Owen Electric believes that vegetation management group will consider wildfire mitigation measures such as regulations, identifying vegetation management obligations of landowners as well as practical vegetation management programs for landowners and public utilities.

Thank you for this opportunity to add to my testimony here for any questions.

Thank you. Kiko Bukolski for IBEW 1260.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Kiko Bukowski on behalf of IBEW 1260, we stand on our written testimony and support and would just like to emphasize the importance. We recognize the importance of vegetation management. But we also want to recognize the importance of who actually performs the work in and around electric utility facilities.

Very hazardous work, as one of the previous testifiers explained. And we just want to we understand. That this resolution somewhat came out of the deferral of SB11 and similar consistent language in SB11.

We'd like to see in this working group as well, bringing attention to the workers that actually perform these types of hazardous works around utility lines and whatnot. Thank you.

Thank you. Henry Curtis testifying for life of the land opposition not present on Zoom, Chair. Thank you. Kael Duterte for Ina Pau Ahi Kamehameha Schools.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Steve Tevis for Commandment Schools. Just real quickly we stand on our testimony and support and just trying to be inclusive. We will. We're fine with the amendments offered by DLNR, IBEW and I think Hawaii Telecom.

So you know this is this working group is going to deal with some complex issues like when you when they say landowner, that includes permittees, licensees, easement holders and all. So we want everybody at the table and have their issues aired. IBEW, DLNR and also we stand up support and we're fine with their amendments.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tevis. That completes our list of registered testifiers for SCR149 and SR20. Anyone else that wishes to testify on these two measures, if not Members. Questions. Move on. SCR126, SR105 Requesting the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations to incrementally and systematically reduce the number of inmates incarcerated in private out of state correctional facilities.

First up is Director Johnson from DCR. Supporting intent. Thank you. Weight Correction System Oversight Commission in support. Thank you. Office of the public defender. Mr. Ganaden.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair. Sonny Ganaden, Deputy Public Defender. The Legislature is well aware of the many issues having to do with the private prison. I figured I'd do something new and discuss the stock prices of CXW.

If we would have invested in CXW just prior to the election, maybe we could quit our state jobs in November 1, 2024. The stock was trading at $13.18. November 11. It's at $23.18. It's going up significantly. They're working with DOGE to expand private prisons throughout the United States based largely on the investment of states like our own.

It's time to be pulled out of Corecivic and this unfortunate mire that we've gotten ourselves in. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ganaden.

Nathan Lee for ACLU Hawaii, Student. Chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members, we want to thank the Chair and Senator Rhodes for introducing this resolution. And just to echo previous sentiments, we are in support. And we want to note that Hawaii sends about 45% of its prison population out of state. The next closest state is Vermont at about 15%.

So Hawaii is unique, as the public defender noted, in supporting these out of state prisons. And furthermore, we want to note that. Corecivic and other private prison operators are just bad people to be in partnership with. They've been faced with a litany of lawsuits related to deaths not only at Saguaro, but across the nation.

Recently, Florida and Tennessee fined Corecivic millions. Of dollars for violating its staffing provisions. After they failed to respond adequately to incidences of violence. And we believe that it's imperative that Hawaii gets out of this relationship. And so we're in support of this resolution. Thank you, Mr.

Mr. Lee. If you can state your name for the record, please.

Nathan Lee, ACLU Hawaii.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, that completes our list of registered testifiers on SCR126, SR105. Anyone else that wishes to testify on these two items, if not Members? Questions? Senator Rhoads.

Can you just tell us a little more about how the. The contracts with the. With the private prisons work? Because the. The number of inmates doesn't. I mean, it varies from time to time as people term out and stuff. Is it a, like a flat rate? I just don't know how it works.

Is it per person or per person?

Per bed, we fill about $96 a day. Okay. Soup to nuts, the bed, medical education, substance abuse treatment, everything.

So they don't. So when someone is released at the end of their term, our bill goes down by $96 a day?

If we return that person. Yeah, we return them here in preparation for release. Yes.

Okay. Okay. I was just curious about. So there's no minimum. You don't have to have like X. Number of prisoners up there to be.

No, what will happen is as the bed space capacity goes down, like, we used to have 1600 folks there. We have about a thousand. Temporary surge at 240 because we're doing some work at Halawa.

Let's say when we return those 240 back a bit on the 700, if we don't fill those beds within 60 days or so, Corecivic will fill them with inmates from another state contract.

I see. Okay. All right. Thanks, Chair. Thank you, Director.

Yeah, Vice Chair.

Okay.

Okay. So we spend 96 bucks a day to send somebody to the mainland. How much do we spend a day to keep someone, that same person locked up in Halawa?

$307.

So there's a huge cost savings for the state.

That is correct.

And what I find ironic is the people who are promoting this resolution are the very ones who are against the construction of a prison. So you're caught in this tough place, right, where there's people hopefully less incarcerated in the future, but still less far over what your capacity has now.

And you can't solve this issue and bring these guys home because those. Your plans for a new prison are being blocked by the same people who are advocating for this resolution.

Yes, but we're building a new jail. We do need a new prison. If we want to return these folks to Hawaii, we would need a new prison like Halawa. Yes, but, yeah, it's like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place because I have advocates and people saying, bring them back, bring them back.

Yet those same advocates testify against OCCC, a new jail, which is sorely needed. And at the same time, I don't control my population because I have to take everyone the court sends to us, no matter what, whether I'm overcrowded or not, I have to take the body.

And so, as a result, we send inmates to the mainland because we do not have the room for them here. But I would like to say we reduced our population from 1,600 down to about 700. There's a temporary surge of 240 now because we're doing work at Halawa.

So we're doing everything we can to return as many as we can without increasing our overcrowdedness. And I'll give you an example. I recently put out a directive that, no, this was last year, no class C non violent offender would be sent to the mainland.

And instead of returning inmates at 48 months, we'll try to return them at 60 months, providing they otherwise qualify and we have bed space for them at one of our minimum security prisons or medium security prisons that qualify for that classification level. So, in short, I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.

But we're doing all we can with what we have.

Which is not enough space on island.

That is correct. Not enough space within the state to house prisoners.

So for us to get to a better place, we as a community should have a clear idea of where we're going. Not this, not that. Less guys in prison, less on the mainland. But I don't want more capacity. I mean, this discussion is so unhelpful to you and the entire discussion of public safety.

It's correct. It's like a circular argument. It's not going to go anywhere unless we build a new prison facility here, but at the same time reform the current system we have.

Yeah. Senator DeCorte.

So are we sending prisoners away because it's more cost effective or are we. Sending prisoners away because of overcrowding?

It's overcrowding. We don't have the space in our prisons. We have 23 male prisons here. We have the Halawa medium security correctional facility. We have the Kulani Correctional facility, which is a work camp, and we have the Waiava Correctional facility, which is a work camp as well.

Without fences, these people on the mainland are medium security or higher for the most part. And so they need to be in a medium security setting.

Okay, and then why is there such a significant increase in cost by keeping them here? Where is the influx of costs to keep them here?

Well, one CoreCivic. They're not. They don't have unions for the ACOs. But that's not the only cost. Everything here costs more. It costs more for food, costs more for health care here. It costs more for electricity, costs more for water and sewer.

And so all those costs combined with inefficient facilities means you're going to pay more and more for utility costs. We pay more and more for labor because we have abuses with FMLA and sick leave abuse and workers comp abuse, to be perfectly Frank. And our facilities are old and they take a lot of money to maintain.

Tough one. Okay, thank you, Chair. Thank you very much for the question.

Senator, I just have a comment. So this is my Rizzo. So I have. Just for the record, I have always. Been in favor of building a new. Prison in the islands for this very problem. I'm less convinced. I think we also need to build a new. Jail as well.

But I think that's a more fraught question because of all the people that we're keeping pre trial that I'm not convinced need to be there. But I suppose, you know, it's all about priorities. I suppose we could cancel the stadium. Project and build a prison Instead, but. You know, that's, that's those decisions we're making. So. Thanks.

Any other other further questions for the Director? It's not. I have a few. Sure. So, Director, So you mentioned 1600 at one time. You're down to 700. There's a surge of 240.

Yeah. So we're about, about 960 now.

So 960 at Sagaro.

Right. With this temporary surge.

The surge are inmates at Halawa that are transferred to Sagaro because of modeling or renovation.

Yeah, major electrical work where water came in through the roof and got into the, got into electrical lighting. So we closed two dorms. They're done with one dorm. The next dorm should be done in the next 60 days or so. And so what we're doing, we moved inmates around.

So once the last dorm is done, then we'll be able to bring that 240 back. Okay, and when do you anticipate that. To be completed by sometime between August and October. We should be done with all of this year.

Yes, of this year.

We started last year.

And just to clarify, prison is different than a jail. And for these particular inmates in Arizona, that would be a prison?

Yes. Let me explain real quick. A jail is meant to hold folks for no more than one year, which are sentenced misdemeanors for one year. For us, we have pretrial and, and I agree with Senator Rhodes, we have too many people in pretrial to be perfectly Frank.

That takes up the vast majority of our population here in the state, not sentenced felons. And we have people coming back through work, furlough, going out the prisons, Halawa, the mainland, Waiava, Kulani, they're more for long term inmates who have class B, class a sentence, 10 years, 20 years, life with and life without the possibility of parole.

As an example, of the 900 plus folks we have on the mainland, over 100 of them are serving life with or without parole. So we take the worst of the worst and we move them to the mainland. One, because they're better, one, because the facilities are more secure.

But two, they would take up room here where we could not. They would take up a bed for too long here where we have to move people downstream. So let me explain. When someone gets convicted, they get sentenced, let's say they're in for eight years.

We send them to the mainland for probably four or five years of that as they're getting the tail end of the sentence. We bring them back to make sure that we can get them through all the programming that they didn't do on the mainland get them re socialized to work furlough and now don't work furlough.

If you have someone for 30 to 50 years, why would you set that person there in a bed where now you've stagnated that bid for decades where you can't do any movement? So I hope that.

And then two follow up final questions I have. So you mentioned that in response to Senator Rhodes question about it's a per person and not so much sort of a quota of a part of your contract with Corecivic.

It's a fee for service. So if the bed is not filled, we don't pay for it.

Well, I thought it was my understanding that there couldn't be a mixture of inmates from different states. With Hawaii inmates in Sagaro, they're not.

In the same housing units. They're in different housing units. Right, right. That we can't control but we do not allow them to house other inmates with our inmates.

Okay, and then the final question that I have is in relation to this. In the overall picture, does the Department have a master plan in terms of years out?

I know you're looking to build a new jail, but in terms of overall master plan system wide for all your facilities in terms of how do you reduce incarceration for those living on the mainland, coming home, etc. etc. Is that something the Department would look into?

We are trying to get money in our budget to seek money for a master plan. The last master plan we have was done in 2003. It should be done every two years. We're seeking $10 million that has been lined out to $1,000 I think in the budget.

So I have a meeting with a CIP person tomorrow to discuss that and other stuff. Thank you, Director.

Any other further follow up questions? Yeah, Vice Chair. Okay. When you try to finance the prison, from what I recall it's about $1.0 billion cost.

The last estimate was about 937 million. Yes.

Right. And the Department of Public Safety or Corrections and Rehabilitation is looking at doing a lease buyback. Correct.

Some type of P3 would be. Yes, yes.

Which would mean that the developer would would build it. You would have a long term, perhaps 30 year agreement on paying that capex down over the life cycle of Howard is contracted.

Correct.

And it's not seen as an economic driver. You're not creating change jobs. It's not going to create a vibrant economic boom to the state by building a prison.

Well, I think building the jail will be. It will have. It will provide some economic Value while the construction is going on because it will hire a lot of people to build the jail once a jail is built. And then we will staff the jail and operate it and the developer will maintain it.

So when we talk about a prison and then you talk about a stadium, the stadium is one that's going to create billions of dollars in economic activity and jobs for the life cycle. A very business. Different business model than a prison, correct?

That is correct. Prisons.

So that the comparison of a prison versus a stadium is a totally erroneous apples to oranges comparison, Correct?

I think it's apples to oranges. I think prisons serve a purpose. But I can tell you that corrections, we don't create revenue. We suck revenue, unfortunately. But it's a necessary evil because some people need to be locked up.

So, yeah, I agree that there's economic value to a new stadium, just like there's economic value to a new school, a new hospital infrastructure. But there's also moral value in a new prison or jail. So we don't keep people in inhumane conditions and overcrowded conditions.

But I agree we're not going to bring in revenue like a stadium would or a new venue. No.

Thank you. Any other questions for Director Johnson?

If not, thank you so much. Director, can I just. Again, just a comment. So I don't disagree with Senator Wakai about the difference. My only point was that we have. Limited CIP and that's. And you have to decide what you're. Going to spend it on. And that's it.

Comments are so noted. Thank you.

We'll move on to our next items, which is SCR 209, SR 184, requesting the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency to identify existing large trees along evacuation routes and trim, spray, or remove trees having the potential to obstruct the evacuation route, conduct comprehensive risk assessments for specific high risk trees, implement best practices in urban forestry, and strengthen community-based disaster preparedness initiatives.

First up from DLNR, Don Chang, or Robert for representative. Yes.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Jennifer Grimm from the Division of Forestry and Wildlife, DLNR. And I'm here to stand in our written testimony which is providing a comment today.

Okay, thank you. DLNR submitting comments. Henry Curtis in opposition, on Zoom.

Not present on Zoom, Chair.

And then Jodi Akao in support. That completes our list of registered testifiers for SCR 209 and SR 184. Anyone else on these two items? If not, Members, questions? Yes, Senator Fukunaga.

I guess for DLNR. In the comments that you provided, one of the things that the Department has identified is a lack of acknowledgement of invasive trees. And I guess one of my questions would be who would be the appropriate agency to assist DLNR or to work together to address the invasive trees?

Because we do have a lot of them in areas that we would like to get rid of them from, but it seems as though the cost and other concerns have usually been the roadblocks.

Thank you. I think I'm supposed to introduce myself. Jennifer Grimm, Division of Forestry and Wildlife, DLNR. I think your question was who would be the appropriate. And I may not be able to comment on that exclusively today.

I think our comment here is that this legislation was looking mostly at planted trees and we did want to make sure that we look at the invasive trees along roadways and blocking emergencies.

So, I think working with maybe a group and finding the landowners underneath, maybe it's county, maybe it's city, to work with maybe a cross-jurisdictional group on this.

So, wouldn't it make sense for HYIMA to also be looking at some of the impacts of invasive trees since oftentimes they are among the ones that cause the greatest damage? Thank you.

Thank you. Any other questions? Okay, thank you so much. Anyone else that wants to testify on these two items? If not, Members, any other questions? We'll move on to our last two items, which is SCR 48 and SR 30.

This is urging the International Code Council to extend the timeframe between model code updates and adoption and processes and taking more balanced and deliberative approach to code revisions.

Kiko Bukowski, Afternoon Chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members. We stand on our written comments, but we just wanted to. Well, we're asking that this Committee defer these two resolutions. And the reason, although we understand and appreciate the intent of the resolutions, we just don't believe that these resolutions are applicable.

There are several code publishers besides the International Code Council that are not named in this resolution. Specifically NFPA, which is the National Fire Protection Association, as well as IAPMO, which is the International Association for Plumbing and Mechanical Officials.

They actually promulgate and publish codes that are listed in Chapter 10725 which is part of the State Building Code Council.

But the way these resolutions are written, it asks for the International Code Council, which is a worldwide code publisher that specifically publishes building codes, to change their timeline, which, you know, the more appropriate approach would be maybe to address Chapter 107 on a state level, which has been attempted. Okay.

And if you could just say your name again for the purpose.

Kika Bukowski. Thank you. IBW 1260. Thank you so much.

And online is Brian Imai for International Code Council in opposition on Zoom.

Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair. Members of the Committee, Brian Imai with the International Code Council. We submitted written testimony in opposition to SCR 48 and SR 30.

Hawaii's building code professionals are under significant constraints and ICC urges the Legislature to address their concerns at the county and state building code council levels before considering recommending measures that would could reduce safety nationwide.

I'd also like to add to our testimony that ICC is and has been actively working with each of the counties and the Governor's team on immediate training options to keep up with code updates and the Governor's work to help form a better functioning council. We urge the Committee to allow that process to play out. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Imai. And we have Dylan Armstrong in opposition. That completes our list of registered testifiers for these two items. Anyone else that wishes to testify? Okay. If not Members, questions? I have a question for Mr. Imai if you're still on online. Yes, hi. Yes, thanks for being here with us.

When was the last time that these codes have been updated? And what is the current version of the code that we should be updating to?

You mean specific to Hawaii? The current code version out now is 2024. Hawaii is currently on the 2018s and was paused in its adoption of the 21s by the Governor's Emergency Proclamation and remains on pause until that's lifted.

Okay, thank you so much for the clarification. Members. Any other questions? Okay, if not, thank you. Okay, Members, I'm ready to go through decision making. Okay.

Okay, we're now in decision-making. This is our 305 Agenda. First up on our list is SCR113, SR94. This is requesting the Governor to issue a proclamation designating Hawaii as a Purple Heart State on August 7, 2025. Members, because we didn't receive any oral or written testimony, recommendation is to defer.

And there was a similar type of measure that Co-Chair Wakai and I did here relating to this. So, recommendation for these two is to defer — for SCR 204 and SR 164 — requesting the Department of Law Enforcement to provide information related to disposal, detonation, and destruction of explosives, fireworks, and similar hazardous materials in the state.

Recommendation for these two resolutions is to pass as is. Any further discussion? If not, Senator Wakai for the vote. Chair votes aye.

I vote yes. [Roll Call].

Thank you so much. Next two items are SER107 and SR88. This is requesting each branch of the United States military and the state to provide shelters that can withstand hurricanes with winds of over 200,200 miles per hour for all of their active and retired personnel and families living in the state.

Because we did not receive any written or oral testimony, recommendation is to defer. Next up is SCR148, SR119 — strongly supporting the construction of a floating dry dock at Pearl Harbor, recommendation is to pass as is. Any further discussion? If not, Senator Wakai for the vote. Chair votes aye.

[Roll Call]

Thank you so much. Our next two items are SCR149 and SR120. This is requesting the Office of the State Fire Marshal to convene a vegetated Vegetation Management working group to study, evaluate, and make recommendations for regulations that define property owner obligations for vegetation management on public and private property to mitigate wildfire risks.

Recommendation here is to pass with amendments. We're going to include in the working group the State Department of Education Superintendent or designee. We're going to add the DOE to the list of transmittal recipients for this resolution.

For both resolutions, we're going to delete references to the Department of Labor as the agency and replace it with the State of Hawaii Department of Defense. There is a bill moving that changes all that back into DOD. We're also going to accept proposed amendments from the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, IBEW 2 Local 1260.

We're also going to accept the State Department of Land and Natural Resources' suggested amendments in their testimony. On page four, we're going to delete line two for SCR149 — this is Hawaiian Telcom's testimony. And then, on page three for SCR120, we're going to delete line 41.

And in the committee report, we're going to indicate to the working group to look at other states such as Washington and Oregon, as contained in the PUC's testimony. Okay with that. Any discussion? If not, Senator Wakai. Chair votes aye, with amendments.

[Roll Call]

Thank you. Next item is SCR126, SR105. This is requesting the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation to incrementally and systematically reduce the number of inmates incarcerated in private, out-of-state correctional facilities. Recommendation is to pass as is. Any further discussion? If not, Senator Wakai for the vote. Chair votes aye.

[Roll Call]

For our next two items, SCR209 and SR184 — requesting the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency to identify existing large trees along evacuation routes and trim, spray, or remove trees having the potential to obstruct the evacuation route. Conduct comprehensive risk assessments for specific height-risk trees.

Implement best practices in urban forestry and strengthen community-based disaster preparedness initiatives. Recommendation here is to pass as is. Any further discussion? If not, Senator Wakai for the vote. Chair votes aye.

[Roll Call]

Thank you. And for our last two items, this is SER48, SR30 — urging the International Code Council to extend the timeframe between model code updates and adoption processes and take a more balanced and deliberative approach to code revisions. Our recommendation here is to pass with amendments.

There was another resolution that I did offer and introduced that would come up with a strategic sort of plan and working to address some of these concerns. So, we're going to insert contents of SCR24 into this resolution, SCR48. Any further discussion on the recommendation? Senator Rhoads?

I think I'm a no on this one. I just think that we probably should update the codes as fast as they become available, because there's a reason we have new codes. So, I'm a no. Thanks.

Understood. This does urge, so it doesn't set for — but understood. Your objections? Any further discussion? If not, Senator Wakai for the vote. Chair votes aye.

[Roll Call]

Thank you. This concludes our agenda for today. We're adjourned.

SA.