House Standing Committee on Economic Development & Technology

Okay, thanks everyone for joining us this morning for the ECD hearing. We're in room 423 for the 10am agenda. And let's see. I have a brief disclosure to read. For those on Zoom, please keep yourself muted and your video off while waiting to testify until your testimony is complete.

Zoom chat function will allow you to chat with the technical staff only. Use the chat only for technical issues. If you're disconnected unexpectedly, you may attempt to rejoin the meeting. If disconnected while presenting testimony, you may be allowed to continue if time permits.

Please note that the house is not responsible for any bad Internet connections on the testifier's end. In the event of a network failure, it may be necessary to reschedule the hearing or schedule the meeting for decision making. In that case, an appropriate notice will be posted. Please avoid using any trademarked or copyrighted images.

Please refrain from profanity or uncivil behavior. Such behavior may be grounds for removal from the hearing without the ability to rejoin. Okay, we're going to get started with HCR157. Our first testifier is the Land Use Commission.

Aloha kakou. Scott Derrickson, Chief Planner, Land Use Commission. We'll stand on our testimony. Answer any questions you have. Thank you very much.

Next up is Dean Minakami from HHFTC. Thank you. Next is Mr. Tokioka from DBEDT.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, the Members of the Committee. Jimmy Tokioka, DBEDT. I'm here—we stand on our testimony in support, and I just wanted to add some more comments to the testimony.

I think this resolution will give opportunities for the Legislature, for DBEDT, for all of the government agencies involved to get testimony from the community to figure out what we do next. This is in no way a decision that's the direction that this Administration is going in. But we cannot make bad decisions with too much information.

So, I think this working group helps us come up with those concerns and we strongly support it. So, thank you very much. Oh, we also wanted to talk about the staffing of the working group. As far as, you know, what, who staff said, what, what gets done, because it's not clear in the resolution yet, so we can have discussions about that moving forward.

Would you like to share any specific recommendations at this point?

Well, it could either be from the staff because the two chairs from both houses will be the chairs of the committee. So, whether you folks decide to do it that way and split the responsibilities or have another agency do it, that that would be up to the Legislature to decide, so.

And I would say that that agency would likely fall on DBEDT, but the, the staffing issues will come up from the chair. So, hopefully, we can try to figure how we can do a combination of that.

Okay, thank you. We also have testimony from Ted Kefalas from the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii. Is Mr. Kefalas online? Okay. Very, very well. We also received late testimony from the PUC. Is anyone from the PUC here? Okay. All right. Move on to the next item. Okay.

All right, then we're going to move on to the next item on our agenda, which is HCR118, HR114. This is, I should have read the titles earlier. So this resolution requests the Department of Business, Economic Development and Tourism to sponsor Michelin guide for restaurants across the state. Is Daniel's not here from? Okay, Caroline. Okay.

Aloha. My name is Caroline Anderson. Interim Chief Administrative Officer. Daniel apologizes for not being here today. We. We stand in our written testimony with comments. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Does anyone else wish to testify on this resolution?

Okay.

All right, let's move on then to HCR192 requesting the Department of Business, Economic Development and Tourism to establish a tourism and gaming working group. For this reso We have first Dr. Tian from DBEDT.

Yeah. Eugene Tian from DBEDT. I'm Economic Research Administrator. We support this measure with some comment. Is the same comment as our Director mentioned because the two chairs are from the economic development committees of the House and the Senate, but the supporting staff is from DBEDT.

So I think that the assignment need to be identified because we have two different locations and for our working group and, you know, frequent communication from the chair to the supporting staff. So I think that is the main comment for us.

Okay.

Thank you, Dr. Tian. Next up is HTA.

We stand on our written testimony with comments. Thanks.

Thank you. Next up, the Prosecuting Attorney.

Good morning, Chair Ilagan and Vice Chair Hussey. The Honolulu Prosecutor's Office stands in strong opposition to this. Doing this HCR will send the message that you want gambling. And I think the Legislature over decades has looked at it and decided this is not right for Hawaii. I think it sends the wrong message to our kids.

We already have social gambling that's legal. But what really scares me is sports gambling. You watch an NFL game now, it seems like half of the commercials are for gambling. And these kids watching this, their heroes like LeBron James are supporting it.

It's like a casino in their living room, so with their phone they can rack up debts And I'm sure you folks have visited parts of the country that are lower income. People are lined up out the door to buy lottery tickets like it's an investment.

You're more likely to get hit by a Meteor than you are to win the lottery. So we just think this is a Pandora's box. It really would be bad for Hawaii. And we stand in opposition. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Carr from Aloha Halawa District Partners.

Aloha Chair Ilagan, Vice Chair Hussey. Stanford Carr with Stanford Carr Development, one of the partners of Aloha Halawa District Partners developing the new Aloha stadium and entertainment District. We strongly support this resolution respectfully requesting an amendment to allow us to have a seat at the table to be a part of the discussions. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next up, we have Nation of Hawaii. I don't see them in the room. Are they online? Okay, we have Erin Midby from Boyd Gaming.

Good morning, Chair Ilagan, Vice Chair Hussey. For the record, my name is Erin Midby with Boyd Gaming. We submitted testimony in support of this measure and I just wanted to highlight a few comments today. Just.

We think this is an appropriate first step before the Legislature considers any gaming public policy and that the diverse group of members would allow for the expertise and experience that would give you the data, research and analysis you would need to make an informed decision and think the timing is appropriate to give you sufficient time to do that as well.

So appreciate your time here today and happy to answer any questions.

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Last up is Bupi Kanahele, again, not present. Is he online? Okay. Very well. Do we do Q and A at this point or after all the results?

You can ask.

Okay. Are there any questions from Members at this point?

Sure.

Okay. Let's move on then to HCR 156, HCR 156 HR 151. This requests HTDC to increase its focus on advanced manufacturing and cybersecurity to build a stronger diversified economy, create high-wage job opportunities, and position Hawaii as a leader in innovation and national security in the Pacific. Okay, first up, we have Mr. Tokioka from DBEDT. Or not Mr. Tokioka.

Good morning, chair, vice chair, yeah. No. On behalf of Director Tokioka, we stand in support on this, this resolution. Advanced manufacturing and cybersecurity are two major components of our tech industry, and we appreciate this moving forward. Mahalo.

Thank you. Jason Chung for the Military Affairs Council. Jason is not here. Is Jason online perhaps? Okay. All right. Then Wayne Inouye from HTDC.

Hello, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Wayne Inouye, HTDC. We strongly support this bill, and just for providing comments, this is already part of our core programs. We already do advanced manufacturing. We are funded through the Department of Commerce, Dean Nishina program to support manufacturing and advanced manufacturing.

For cybersecurity, we work with our partners at DBEDT and the University of Hawaii to support cybersecurity technology initiatives, and again, this is already part of our program so we'd be more than happy to put additional focus and efforts into this matter. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Does anyone else like to testify on this measure? Mr. Carr.

Good morning, Chair Ilagan and Vice Chair Hussey. Stanford Carr, on behalf of the Hawaii Business Roundtable. I'm a Board of Director and on the Executive Committee. We support this measure. We are advocating for advanced manufacturing, collaborating with the military.

They are working on a 40,000 square foot facility and reaching out with the public sector for 3D printing of parts, and we see this as a potential vibrant industry here in Hawaii in advanced manufacturing. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Anyone else? Any questions from our Members? Okay, then, let's move on then to the next item. So, the next item is HCR 119 and HR 115, endorsing Taiwan's international participation, supporting the signing of a United States Taiwan Bilateral Trade Agreement, and commemorating the relationships and exchanges between the State of Hawaii and Taiwan.

First up, we have James Tokioka from DBEDT.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. DBEDT stands in support on this resolution. Thank you.

And then Nicole Wong or Nicole Wang from TICO in Honolulu. Are they online perhaps? Okay, would anyone else like to speak out on this, this measure? No? Okay. Any questions from Members? All right, next item is HCR 33 and HR 32.

Requests that the Postmaster General of the US Postal Service to relocate the Pearl City Post Office to the US Navy property on the Pearl City Peninsula. We have, first, Charmaine Doran from the Pearl City Neighborhood Board, in support. Are they online? Okay, thank you. Elliot Miles in support. Okay. And Larry Veray. Okay, great. Come up, Larry. Thank you.

Good morning. Aloha, Chair, and I'm Larry Veray. I'm Chair of the Pearl City Neighborhood Board and I'm representing our Board as a whole. And in our 2025 legislative priorities that we put together, we had a recommendation to move the Pearl City Post Office based off our requirements.

Our Neighborhood Board has received numerous complaints about the traffic congestion at the intersection of Acacia Road and Kamehameha Highway.

A creative idea to help mitigate traffic congestion at this intersection is to relocate the Pearl City Post Office from its present location to the Pearl City Peninsula on Lihua Avenue across from Lihuahua Elementary School to improve public safety traffic issues. I'm in strong support of HCR 33 and also HR 32.

These are the advantages of the move: improve public safety for the hundreds of Pearl City residents driving their vehicles to and from the post office on a very narrow driveway into oncoming traffic; eliminate the numerous pedestrians that walk into the post office driveway that's very narrow. That was a huge safety issue.

Allow for a new driveway from the Kamehameha highway to the back entrance of Walmart parking lot. This will help mitigate traffic flow and get them into Walmart earlier than going all the way around the block.

Improve throughput of the westbound traffic allowing for a right turn lane only to be installed at that intersection by Sam's Club and Walmart; offer an opportunity to expand the size of the post office relocated to Pearl City Peninsula with larger parking lot for 75 vehicles and residents parking.

Offer more larger cluster mailbox availability and much higher demand for packages arriving in the post office and offer this better location for post office with the transit-oriented development that's coming up soon for Pearl City with the expected high-rise apartments to be built within two blocks of the post office. Thank you very much. Any questions?

That's my line. Does anyone have any questions for Mr. Veray?

Okay, thank you. We got a solution.

Very good, very good. Happy to help.

Anyone else like to testify on this measure? Okay, does anyone have any questions for any of the testifiers? We're going to move on then to HCR 211 and HR 203, related to economic development technology.

First up, we have Mr. Tokioka from DBEDT or his—great.

Thank you, Vice Chair, Chair, and Members. This resolution, along with the next one agenda and the one earlier with advanced manufacturing, DBEDT's really supportive of the language and what it's asking to do. If you look at DBEDT's economic framework, we talk about three sectors: the tech and innovation with advanced manufacturing, but key is product manufacturing.

And if we're going to look at reducing imports, part of the challenge across the state is a lack of infrastructure and facilities—equipment that our smaller farmers or small to medium value-add producers are unable to afford that equipment or facilities. So, we are encouraged by this resolution.

We do have some policies moving forward and budget requests to help anchor and expand these small to medium businesses, such as the Food and Process Innovation Network, and we look forward to providing a report and furthering the policies and requests to move our small businesses forward. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Wayne Inouye, HTTC.

Hello, Chair, Vice Chair. HTTC stands on its strong support of this Bill.

Thank you. Would anyone else like to testify on this measure? Any questions for the testifiers? Okay, then we're going to move on to our last item on this agenda, HCR 209, HR 201, relating to economic development via import substitution. And first up, we have DBEDT. It is Mr. Tokioka.

Well, I wanted to explain to the Chair because he's given me grief before. this—sorry, Jimmy Tokioka, DBEDT—he's given me grief before about not coming in front of the Committee and testifying.

But in all honesty, Deputy Director Wicker is the one that handles a lot of the projects that come through this Committee, so.

He only comes when I'm not sharing.

It says Chair right there on that. So, in strong support, but I just wanted to explain why Deputy Director, who is better looking and smarter is coming up to testify. And I think you would appreciate that, Chair.

I'm so glad we have that on the record, guys. Okay, next, Hawaii Department of Agriculture.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, and Members of the Committee. Cedric Gates, here on behalf of the Department of Agriculture. The Department stands on its written comments supporting the intent of this measure. Here for any questions. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. And Wayne Inouye from HTDC. Thank you very much. I wanted to ask Dr. Tian, would you mind coming up and sharing some of your thoughts? I know you're not officially on the testifier list, but if you could share some of your perspective on import substitution.

Yeah. Thank you, Chair and Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Eugene Tian, Economic Research Administrator with DBEDT. I think import substitution is important because in terms of economic development, in the calculation of GDP, import is always negative. So, if we have more import. means our GDP will be declining.

So, Hawaii GDP in total value is about 100 billion. So, our import is about 40% of our GDP. Our export, including the visitor expenditure and other export is about 26%. So, our trade deficit is about 14% while the US is 4%. So, and for the all—the US also has the deficit.

I think that's why the Federal Government is trying to use tariffs to protect to limit the imports. And in all the countries in the world, the trade surplus, on average, the surplus is about 7%. That means most of the countries in the world, they have trade surplus.

I think the Bill, for this resolution, I look at it, it is well written, talking about the examples from Taiwan, Korea, from Japan. But I think there are two components. I think one is the protection of the restrictions on imports like using the tariff. The most important one is the government support.

I think for all these countries—Japan, you know, automobile industry, Korea, automobile industry, and look at Taiwan, the semiconductor industry—they all initiate with strong government support. I think for Hawaii is the same. I think if you look at the DOA testimony indicated that yeah, we are not a nation and we cannot use the tools of tariff.

But I think the only important tool we can use is the government support. Government support has several forms. I think one is the tax credit and tax exemption or government finance. So, which means we can invest and, or we can put in money or invest in the private business to make the industry to grow.

I think the key challenge is the cost because Hawaii is small, a lot of business, small businesses. We have 98% of our businesses are small businesses. We don't have the economies of scale. So, at the beginning, I think it needs a lot of government support.

I think that is the part maybe for this working group or task force. We, at the state level, we need to look at it.

You know, in your work on the data book and the tables of import substituting of imports, are there items in that list that stick out to you as, you know, sort of low hanging fruit, places where it would make sense with appropriate government support to invest some time and energy into?

I think the difficulty is we are import of—I was talking about the 40% of import, but it's about over 90% is another challenge. Over 90% imported from the US mainland. So, my calculation for 2024 is about 7% is imported from the foreign country. And of these 7%, there are 40% of them, they are petroleum.

We already reduced the petroleum. In 2019, we spent about 3.7 billion importing from foreign countries.

I'm sorry, there's 3.7 billion?

3.7 billion. But in 2024, we reduced by a billion. So, it's from 3.7 billion to 2.7 billion. The main reduction is actually in the petroleum because we are moving to—I think part of that are Director mentioned is renewable energy. We are developing that and then we, is a way of reducing the imports.

The renewable energy is the import substitution. We see the significant progress already looking at the import of petroleum. So, I think yeah, this is a challenge because over 90% is imported from the mainland, and we, even from the national, we don't have the tariff tool.

And from the mainland, we are competing with the cost, with the production cost. And we have limited land. Most of the import substitution can be identified in the agricultural or food processing manufacturing sectors. So, those are limited by the ability—availability—of land. So, I think that is a limiting factor.

And that limiting factor will increase the cost of production.

Okay, thank you. Does anyone else have any questions for Dr. Tian? Okay, thank you. And would anyone like to testify on this measure? No? Any questions from the Committee?

And I think it'd be appropriate at this time to. To recess for decision making. Okay, thanks everyone. We're now back for decision making.

Oh, gavel again. All right, so the first measure for decision making is HCR157,152. The recommendation is to pass as. Chair for the vote? Oh. Any questions, discussion? Hearing None. Chair.

Thank you. The Chair's recommendation is to pass as is for HCR157 and HR 152. The chair's recommendation is aye. And the Vice Chair is aye. Mark, Representative Holt, as excused for the remainder of the Committee hearing. Representative Tam. Aye. Representative Templo. Aye

Also Mark. Representative Todd as excused for the remainder of the hearing. Representative Matsumoto. Aye Chair, your resolutions have been adopted. Thanks.

Next item is HCR118 114. This is the Michelin guide for restaurants across the state. The recommendation for this item is to add in the provision that the counties which would also be benefiting from this effort, that they also participate in a cost sharing agreement with the State of Hawaii for this effort. So recommendation passed with amendments. Any discussion?

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Chair. With the Chair's recommendation is to pass HTR 118 and HR 114 with amendments. Any members wishing to vote with reservation with no members. Any aye. I mean nos. With no? Members wishing to vote with reservation and no's. The rest is ayes. Chair, your resolutions have been adopted.

Thank you. Next item is HCR192. So my recommendation on this measure, because it's very similar to a bill that our Committee just passed out a few days ago, is to amend the purpose of this working group.

My sense from the introducer of this measure is that they really want to see economic development that directly benefits the Native Hawaiian community. And so the focus is no longer going to be specifically on gaming, but rather on identifying economic opportunities for the Native Hawaiian community.

Gaming can be a part of that conversation, but I think it's appropriate that it not be the sole focus. I'm also recommending that we remove the corporations from the list of the of the participants in the Committee itself.

It would be great for them to participate in the proceedings, but not be, you know, decision makers in the working group itself. The last. Another change is to make sure that the participants. It can be. It's the chairs or the chair's designee, and that's it.

Okay.

Any discussion?

Okay, Chair for the vote. Thank you, Chair. Any Members with. The chair's recommendation is to pass HCR192 with amendments. Any Members wishing to vote with reservations. Reservations, Representative Temple. Reservations any. And Representative Matsumoto with reservations. Any Members wishing to vote. No. Nays with WRs and nays counted for. The rest are ayes. Chair, your resolutions have been adopted.

Thank you very much. Now we're at HCR156, HR151. The recommendation is to pass as is any discussion. Okay, Chair, for the vote.

Thank you, Chair. Any. Actually, the Chair's recommendation is to pass HDR156 and HR151, as is any Members wishing to vote with reservations. Any nays? With no reservations and nays, all our ayes. Chair, your resolutions have been adopted. Thank you.

Next item is HCR119, HR115. This is the endorsing Taiwan's participation in the bilateral trade agreement. For this item, we're recommending that the President of the Republic of China be a recipient of the resolution. So adding that in the. In the action clauses at the end of the resolution. So a small amendment for this item. Any discussion?

Okay, Chair for the vote.

Thank you, Chair. The Chair's recommendation for HCR119 and HR115 is to pass with amendments. Any Members wishing to vote with reservations. Any nays? With the remaining Members voting ayes. Chair, your resolution has been adopted. Thank you.

The next item is HCR33 and HR32. This is to move the Pearl City Post Office. And the recommendation on this measure is to pass as is, without amendments. Any discussion? Chair for the vote.

Thank you, Chair. The Chair's recommendation is to pass as is for HCR33 and HR32. Any Members wishing to vote with reservations. Any nays? With the remaining Members voting aye. Chair, your resolutions have been adopted. Thank you. You could just. I'll just read the new test.

All right. Thank you very much. The next item is HCR211. HR okay.

Okay.

All right. This item is HCR211, HR203. So for this vehicle, for this measure, we're going to. We're going to replace the text, okay?

And the new title of this, this concurrent Resolution will be requesting the insurance Commissioner, the state fire marshal and the fire chief of the Hawaii County Fire Department to work to lower fire insurance, reassess the fire code provisions, and mitigate the fire risks in lava zones 1 and 2 in Puna.

And the be it resolved text says be resolved by the House of Representatives of the 33rd Legislature of the State of Hawaii, regular session of 2025, the Senate concurring that the insurance Commissioner, the state fire marshal and the fire chief of the Hawaii County Fire Department collaborate in finding solutions to lowering the fire insurance rate for lava zone 1 and 2.

Residents and businesses determine best practices to mitigate fire risk for lava zones 1 and 2 and reassess provisions in the fire code to determine possible actions that can be taken to lessen the risk of fire in the area.

So because this is new language, we're going to defer decision making until next week's hearing, which is, I believe, next week, Friday at the same time. But we wanted to make sure that the language is available to the public, so it will be posted online.

Thank you.

So that new DM for this item will be March 28th. The last item is HCR 209, HR 201, related to economic development by import substitution. For this item, we're going to make a few minor changes, a few minor amendments.

We're going to add in a definition of import substitution, since it is an idea that is, you know, probably needs to be socialized more. So we're going to make sure that there's a definition in the resolution.

We're also going to insert new language, which in the be it resolved clause that says the following, number four, will say take steps to avoid and prevent new import dependencies, including the importation of fossil fuels such as LNG and number five, leverage monopsony powers, which is the fact that the state and utilities are the single largest buyers of items to substitute existing imports and avert new import dependencies.

Okay. We're also going to be adding in the State Energy office and the Public Utilities Commission as recipients of this resolution. Any discussion? Okay, so those are the amendments. Chair.

Thank you, Chair. The Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments for HCR 209 and HR 201. Any Members wishing to vote with reservations, any nays, with the remaining Members voting ayes. Chair, your resolutions have been adopted. Thank you.

Okay, we are adjourned. Good morning. We're here for the Joint Committee on Committee, Economic Development, Technology and the Community of Culture and the Arts. Chair Kong, did you want to make any Remarks before we start. Okay. All right. So our only item on this agenda.

I see we have a packed house this morning, is HCR140 HR134, urging the Hawaii sister State Committee to evaluate and develop recommendations for the initiation of a sister state relationship between Hawaii and New Zealand to foster stronger ties in economic development, arts and cultural exchange, education, environmental sustainability. Okay, let's see. Who do we have to testify?

I think it's just DBEDT. Right. Okay.

Aloha Chairs, Vice Chairs. Dennis Ling for DBEDT. DBEDT stands in its written testimony, offering comments. New Zealand is not a state, it is a country. So it's very difficult for us to enter into a relationship with a country. They don't have prefectures or provinces or states.

However, we have entered into MOUs with countries such as Israel, and that would probably the best vehicle for us to go. So that's our position. Thank you.

Good. Vice Chair. Chair. Do we have.

Do we have any other further testing? I don't think so. Are there any testifiers? No, none listed. Yeah, that's all. Okay. Have a question, please.

Could you expand on the MOUs as well as your current MOUs with Israel? So we have an understanding of how that framework works?

Yeah. Israel. The consulate came to our office and we worked with the Governor. Governor's office to see if something could be worked out regarding an MOU. It covered a broad range of categories from economic development to trade to education, health. It didn't speak about defense, though.

So, you know, we made sure that it met the criteria of, you know, basically because it's at dbed, that economic development and community benefits would be paramount in the agreement.

So they approached us, we evaluated it not through the sister state Committee, but through DBEDT and the governor's office, because it would be the Governor signing this MOU, and it was found to be worthwhile. There was strong community support, and Israel is the only country that we have an MOU with.

And, you know, if the Legislature, you know, Deems it wise to enter into an agreement with New Zealand, then this would be the best vehicle. Now, on New Zealand, there's a lot of cultural ties, social ties, and it's in the Pacific. There were great participants in FESPAC recently. And, you know, it seems like a natural.

We don't have a sister state with any of the Pacific Islands, and this would seem like a natural relationship.

Thank you. And one last question is, I assume that DBEDT already have contacts in New Zealand that they could reach out to form that MOU.

That's another point. We don't. Okay.

So that means either this Committee or the bill introducer has to figure out some way to form those connections. That's true. Or work with you to figure out and establish those connections. Yes. Thank you.

The contact with the government is essential. We don't have that.

Thank you.

Sounds like we're gonna have to all go to New Zealand. Very important. Please strike that from the record. Any. Anyone else like to testify on this measure?

Any questions?

Any questions from ECD? Okay, then we're going to recess for.

I'm just going to recess.

Okay, we're back for decision making on this measure. Thanks very much. For all of our testifiers we have. Our plan for this measure is to adopt the DBEDT testimony and utilize the MOU language in an HD1 on this reso.

And also to use the terminology that's currently in use in New Zealand, which is Aotearoa New Zealand for the. For all official, you know, language in this reso. Okay, Any discussion?

And not use the sister state.

And not use the sister state framework or Committee or Committee. Yeah. So maybe DBEDT, would you be able to help us with the modifications on this? Very good. Thank you. Okay. Any other discussion? Okay, then. I think we're ready for the vote.

All right. Chair, your recommendation is to pass HCR140 and HR134 with amendments. [Roll Call] Chair, your resolutions have been adopted.

Thank you.

With the same recommendation as the previous ECD? Yes. Any comments, questions? Seeing none. Vice Chair. Oh, could you do the honors and do the vote?

Thank you, Chair. Voting on HCR140 and HR134, Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. [Roll Call] Thank you, Chair. Recommendation is adopted.

Okay, back to you, Chair.

Thank you all very much.