House Standing Committee on Consumer Protection & Commerce

Good afternoon everyone. We are convening the Committee on Consumer Protection and Commerce. It is Wednesday, January 29th, 2025 2:00pm in Conference Room 329. We have a number of items on the agenda. First, but first I'm going to read this nice script.

In order to allow as many people to testify as possible, there will be a two minute time limit per testifier. Please keep yourself muted and your video off. If you are online waiting to testify and after your testimony is complete, the Zoom chat function will allow you to chat with the technical staff only.

Please use the chat only for technical issues. If you are disconnected unexpectedly, you may attempt to rejoin the meeting. If disconnected while presenting testimony, you may be allowed to continue if time permits. Please note the House is not responsible for any bad Internet Internet connections on the testifier's end. Just a note.

If you are disconnected during testimony, you can contact the technical staff. They'll let me know that you're still on. We'll try to get back to you if we can, if we have time, even if we've already passed that item on the agenda.

In the event of a network failure, it may be necessary to reschedule the hearing or schedule a meeting for decision making. In that case, an appropriate notice will be posted. Please avoid using any trademarked or copyrighted images, including in your background. Please refrain from profanity or uncivil behavior.

Such behavior may be grounds for removal from the hearing without the ability to rejoin for in person testifiers. Please come up to the mic so those on Zoom can hear you. If you are speaking out in the audience, they can't hear you. So if you need if you are making a comment, especially for departments.

I know sometimes you don't like coming to the mic, but please just come to the mic so everyone can hear you both online and over for the YouTube recording as well. All right, let's get started. First up on the agenda we have HB 108 relating to intoxicating liquor.

First up we have Bob Gunter from Koloa Rum Company in support over Zoom.

Aloha. Thank you for this opportunity for me to submit my testimony in support of House Bill 108. When I first joined Koloa Rum Company back in 2009, there were fewer than 75 distilleries in the entire country.

In the years since then, consumer interest in locally made spirits has boomed with craft distilleries like Koloa Rum now numbering more than 3,000 nationwide. But the laws governing our industry have yet to catch up with this Explosive growth. Among the most dangerous examples has been our inability to sell bottles online and ship them directly to customers.

This is particularly frustrating given that the laws don't apply to other alcohol producers. For decades, winemakers have managed alcohol shipments responsibly with ample compliance safeguards to prevent alcohol from falling into the hands of miners. Today, 47 states plus the District of Columbia allow direct shipments of wine.

But only nine states plus DC permit direct shipping of distilled spirits. The bill before you today would bolster not just craft distillers and brewers, but the hundreds of jobs that our industry supports. Further, the sheer number of products from new distilleries and brewers is overloading traditional distributors and retailers.

Direct to consumer shipping can provide another way to bring these products to market. It's time to modernize laws to meet the growth of craft distilling industry.

Laws that give consumers the right to choose the spirits and beer that they want, purchase them at their convenience and have them shipped to their homes will boost the abilities of companies like ours in Hawaii to grow, compete and to continue hiring workers. One quick example. We operate a tasting room and store on Kauai.

200 to 300 visitors per day. If someone buys a bottle of rum in our store and asks us to ship it to them because their luggage is overweight, we cannot because it is illegal. I would really appreciate your support in passing House Bill 108. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Next up we have Maui Brewing Company in support over Zoom.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, thank you for time to testify. Bob said it great. I don't need to re echo everything he just said about spirits. Only the same applies for beer. Beer has been denied the right to ship and denied the right to enjoy the same benefits that wine has.

You'll hear at some point that you know the concern over underage drinking and the three tier system. I'd like to address both of those. In states that have allowed DTC or direct to consumer shipping, we've actually seen a decrease in underage drinking.

We already in Hawaii have a very strong and solid system on how to handle direct to consumer shipping. It's been handled this way for 24 years. Since wine's been allowed to ship. All shipments are done through FedEx or through UPS and require ID by someone 21 years of age and older in order to receive the shipment.

In no way does it bring in any further underage drinking. You'll also hear that underage drinking isn't an issue because of direct to consumer shipping because miners don't drink wine. I'd remind everyone that wine is a very broad topic and does include things like buzz balls, certain states, fireball cider, certain seltzers.

So we're not thinking Sacramento wine necessarily every time we hear wine. So I think it's just important to note too that beer is the beverage of moderation and has been for centuries. You know, the average beer is 5%-5.5% and a half percent at most alcohol. Some of course higher, but many lower.

And the again, the system exists in Hawaii direct to consumer shipping. We've been doing it for 24 years with wine. We have the system in place, we have the taxes in place, we have the collections systems, we have the reconciliation systems.

We have all of the structure necessary in order to help to promote small business in Hawaii further with things like craft beer spirits that Koloa makes. Some of my other colleagues here, like Ola and Lanikai and others, these are not the beverages that we would be concerned access for miners.

Put it this way, I think when you're thinking about the large beverage producers, those are not beverages you're going to see shipped through direct to consumer because they are available literally everywhere. In the past 20 years, we've seen wholesalers shrink from around 5,000 beer wholesalers in the country to about 3,000 beer wholesalers in the country.

And I think it really speaks to the fact that as we smaller producers have grown and have become an issue, become a real viable industry, we need the access to market to be able to help support our local businesses that pay local taxes, employ our local people and really have an impact, a positive impact on the community.

So for these reasons and many more, I'll stay on for questions. Of course we ask your support of this bill so that we can compete on a global scale exporting the products that we all make here in Hawaii. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, we have Hawaiian Ola Brewing Corporation in support.

Aloha. I just wanted to say that I agree with both Bob and Garrett. Their testimonies. My name is Naehalani Breland and I'm the President and co founder of Ola Brew. We're a Hawaii island community and employee owned brewery with over 4,200 community shareholders.

From our inception, our mission has always been to encourage the growth of Hawaii's agricultural economy and by purchasing local ingredients and incorporating them into our specialty beers and now spirits. Since opening our doors In December of 2017, Ola Brew has purchased over $3.6 million in local agriculture. That's dramatically increased annual revenues for over 120 Hawaii farmers.

We've also recently begun resurrecting our monarch era distilled spirit okolehau, which is made from the root of the key plant. And over the last four years, we've won over 60 international awards in Hawaii. We often talk about the importance of exporting crops and value added goods, even wine, direct to consumer from Hawaii.

And that should not exclude beers and spirits as a state. We've also discussed the importance of diversifying our revenue streams not to be so reliant on the tourism industry. And that could effectively be done with more exports.

Passing this Bill will not only generate more revenue for local breweries and distilleries, but it will also simultaneously generate more tax dollars to the state. What's more is we would be creating the potential lasting engagement with tourists through E commerce.

As a local producer, we get countless requests from visitors daily who tasted our product on vacation and now can't find them in their home state groceries. They call us and ask, can't you just ship it? With an exponential rise of E Commerce in every other industry, it only makes sense for this industry as well.

I find it super interesting that I am able to order a bottle of Win or a bottle of Kentucky bourbon from out of our state from the continental US Delivered to my home in Hawaii. But consumers from the continental US can't do the same for their favorite Hawaii beer and spirits manufacturer.

I understand the regulation and compliance aspects of shipping alcohol. That's of the utmost importance and a very valid concern. And there are laws put into place and followed by the other states that have practiced direct to consumer shipment of alcohol.

These regulations have proven to work well for them and I think could easily apply these to Hawaii DTC regulations. This could help our Hawaii business owners tremendously vet our new areas of distribution as well as the state tax income and of course, visitors to stay connected to Hawaii with products that they love.

Mahalo Piha for considering my testimony in support of HB 108.

Thank you. Could everyone silence their phones please? That was two that went off. Thank you. Okay, next up, we have brewers Association in support. Not present. All right. And we have late testimony by the Hawaii Public Health Institute in opposition.

Good afternoon, chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Rick Collins. I'm the Director for the Hawaii Alcohol Policy alliance and we are a program of the Hawaii Public Health Institute. We are here in opposition of the bill and I just want to note just a few reasons why for your consideration.

The first is around the increased availability to underage drinking that this bill has potential to essentially increase through the shipping. The industry will say, sure, we've had wine shipment and there's no underage drinking problem.

But to our knowledge, none of the liquor commissions have ever done compliance checks on shipping, namely because they have capacity issues to do so. And so we're concerned that there's going to be capacity issues to do so when we now also open it to beer and liquor. So that's one thing for you folks to please consider.

The second is one that's not in our testimony, but one that I think has implications as it relates to tax, and that is right now we have a three tiered system in place so that we have a tried and true system to collect the excise tax at the wholesale level and sales tax at the retail level.

When we go direct to consumer shipping, we have to audit that and ensure that we're collecting taxes. This puts a severe tax burden on our liquor commissions to do so because, for example, if a manufacturer ships, say 100,000 packages, someone then has to go and reconcile that that has been taxed and that that's verifiable.

So one of the things that this Bill lacks is ensuring that we require what's called the common carrier report. So in other states, like Vermont, for example, they recently did an audit of their direct shipment and they found that every single transaction was illegal because there wasn't a way to reconcile those shipments in the carrier reports.

So for these reasons, we ask you to oppose the Bill or at minimal defer the Bill so that more research can be done around this. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Are there any. Is there anyone else here to testify either in person or zoom on this measure, seeing none. Members, any questions? Do you have a question too? Oh, no, let's let Kim go first, but thank you.

Thank you chair this. Sorry about that.

This question is for the Hawaii Alcohol Policy Alliance. So I think a previous testifier indicated. That we here in Hawaii can actually. Order Kentucky bourbon and it could be shipped to us already. So do we have any data from. Your policy Institute regarding how many young people are currently drinking imported via shipment?

Yes, sure. Thank you for the question. Currently we do not know of any of that because I don't believe any of the current commissions are doing compliance checks around that have zero data, so.

But it's legal now.

I'm unaware that you can ship bourbon in, but if that's what they said, maybe you can do that. What I know this bill would do is allow shipment of beer and liquor both locally, but also Coors Light or any of the ones on the continent, could also then apply for a direct shipment license.

Okay, thank you.

Permit. Yeah, yeah.

I just want to clarify. Garrett, are you on or Bob? Yes, sir. Garrett here. So for either of you, let's go with Garrett so we don't clash. I'm just following up on Representative Iwamoto's question.

Currently, my understanding is that no one, including people outside of state, Kentucky, California, what have you, can ship any kind of alcohol other than wine into our state directly to consumers. Is that correct?

So it has to do with whether that's coming personally or whether it's coming from the distillery or from the brewery. So personally you're allowed to ship from. Say you had an uncle in your. You know, he's welcome to ship you up to a certain amount as a personal. What we're talking about is direct to consumer.

So essentially from the manufacturer to the consumer. I think it's important to note on this specific fact is the while we may be certain things into Hawaii, we cannot ship between the islands.

So some of our more esoteric beers that, you know, made a wonderful argument, especially looking at what they're doing with being able to ship that between the islands. We can ship out of state.

But other states, most of them the 47, for example, that allow wine, the 13 that allow beer, and the nine allow spirits, won't allow us to ship to them unless we allow their producers to also ship. What's very commonly occurs. It's called reciprocity.

That's how direct to consumer wine was able to reach to the 47 states, plus the District of Columbia. I'd further argue that no one is going to order Coors Light through the mail. You can get it at every stop, every store, everywhere you want to go.

What will be sold are the specialty bottles that you want to get as a gift or something very unique to share with someone, the country or someone that falls in love with the beverage when they're visiting Hawaii and wants to bring it back to their community to share with their friends and family.

So very different than, I think what our. So.

But just to clarify right now, a Kentucky distiller could not direct ship to Hawaii consumer, is that correct under the current law?

Under the current state law, I believe that's not allowable directly. There are, however, some retailers that do do that, and I. It's gray area.

Okay.

Which is why clarifying is a good idea.

I do have a reciprocity question, but I'm gonna. Rhett Martin has a question first.

For. Hawaii Public Health Institute. I wanted to know more about what. This, the common carrier report is. And is that something that we can. Just add to our bill and require that?

Sure, I think. Sure. Thank you for that question. So the common carrier, essentially what happens is if UPS or FedEx is going to ship alcohol, there's no way for a liquor Commission to really be able to verify the amount of alcohol that's going out, unless a common carrier is required to then report to the liquor Commission.

So you could see and essentially reconcile the two reports, if you will. That's the only way that we're probably going to be likely to ensure that we collect the taxes both at the excise level and the sales tax level.

And the burden of that's going to land on each county liquor Commission to do so, unless there's some other mechanism to that.

But right now that would be the regulatory structure, and we feel like that would be quite a burden to do that, and we would need to ensure that UPS and all of the carriers are required to do that. Yeah, you're welcome.

Corey, did you have any questions? Okay, Garrett, for you then, for reciprocity. You mentioned that. So this Bill, as I read it, would allow direct to consumer sales just for our residents. It would not necessarily allow us or you to ship beer to someone in California. That's not what this Bill covers.

And we don't have the jurisdiction to force California to do anything. Exactly. If we pass this bill, it would allow everyone else in the nation to sell to our guys, to our customer, our residents, but it wouldn't necessarily allow you to sell outside of the state, which is a little concerning.

It seems like this bill might give you folks more competition than you have than you currently have because it would open up our market to mainland companies.

But my question is for if there are reciprocity agreements in place, and I didn't see any mention of that in this bill, but are there automatic reciprocity agreements in place, or does something need to be added to this bill to join into some kind of reciprocity agreement right off the bat to allow the sale of Maui beer, Maui Brewing Co.

Beer to Kentucky?

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think that, you know, the wine language is what was used in order to create this bill. So there's an assumption that that is what happens. Of course, if it needs to be clarified in this bill, that can be done through an amendment. I'm happy to research that and dive further.

To be honest with you, I don't think we're going to see a Lot of that because of the extremely high cost of shipping coming to Hawaii. I think really what we see is because the demand for Hawaii across the country is much higher, say than for a beer from Kentucky in Hawaii.

So it's relatively going to always be a one way direction, you know. And following back up on that, these reports, this commentary report, you, Paula Hegel at Maui Wine can tell you very specifically, she is audited all the time on this. This system stands and has been proven and stood the test of time and it is audited.

And FedEx and UPS do supply those reports monthly to the liquor commissions. So I can assure you the fear mongering of this system not existing is completely inaccurate. But on both of those, especially the reciprocity, I'm happy to look into that further.

But 20 years in business yesterday for our company, we're very fortunate to have stood the test of time and my industry experience and I can tell you that that is not something that any of the local brewers are concerned about.

We believe in competing based on the quality of our products and the origin, not by legislating against competition. I think that's very important to note.

Okay, I, you know, there's again, there's no mention of reciprocity in this. Is the reciprocity agreement just kind of a handshake agreement or do are we expecting other states to pass legislation to allow us to ship to them? Because, I mean, is there enabling legislation? I just don't know.

And that's a little concerning to me that that isn't being addressed at this point in the legislative process. If we do pass this Bill through Committee, I mean, I think I would need assurances from you folks that there is more clarity given to these reciprocity agreements. What's the language of them? How do we join them?

Is it automatic if we pass something like this? Does this Bill qualify for the automatic joining into this? How many you said? I think there were nine states in D.C. that do spirits or things other than wine.

So I mean, would it just be those nine states plus us then, I'm assuming, or are there reciprocity agreements with other states that are looking to jump in? I just think there are a lot of unanswered questions involving the reciprocity agreements that I need answered.

Great points. Points well taken. I do think that as last I can, Sam Dewitt from the brewers Association would have this information. Unfortunately, he's stuck with the family emergency, couldn't get on today.

He testified on SB 976 earlier, which is the same language bill on the Senate side, I'm happy to work with his Association as well as the distilled spirits discus, which is essentially the same Association for spirits, to figure out how that works.

The best I can tell you, there are dozen other states, at least that I know, that are in the session direct to consumer.

So we are talking about a world changed dramatically during COVID where many states allowed this to happen for that period of time and customers have gotten accustomed to that, that world of being able to order online. So many states to help save their smaller producers are really considering this legislation to be on a permanent basis.

So the world is changing. And to Bob's point, the craft distillers have grown from 75 to 3,000 just in his short time, you know, so it's time that our Hawaii legislation modernizes to keep up with the world that is today in, in our, in our industry.

Okay, thank you.

But I will commit to researching that for you and I can absolutely work with you on that.

Yeah, what I'm kind of inclined to do is to defer this measure one day to give you a little more time to get back to us, maybe DM in the tomorrow's agenda, just so you have time to actually get back to us on the reciprocity. But we'll, we'll decide in a little bit. Okay, thank you, Members.

Any other questions? Thank you, Chair. Okay, we could. Yeah, I just need to clarify the language, I think. Good idea, but then we would need triggering.

It would take a little bit.

Okay, let's move on to HB 364. This is relating to animal control, our fun cat Bill of the day. First up, we have the Department of Taxation with comments.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. Garrison Kurth, Department of Taxation. We stand on our written testimony providing comments. And I am here if you have any questions. Thank you. Thank you. Next up, DLNR in support.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair. My name is Afshin Siddiqui with DLNR representing our chair. We stand on our testimony in support of this measure.

Thank you. Next up, we have the AG's office with comments.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of. The Committee, Kelsey Nagata, Deputy Attorney General, commenting on HB364. As stated in our written testimony, the Bill lacks wording that attaches the Advisory Committee to a principal State Department as required by the Constitution.

And further, the Bill establishes a special Fund within the Department of Budget and Finance, but codifies it within the Department of Agricultural Statutes. This may cause confusion regarding the Administration of the Special Fund. We have provided suggested revisions in our written testimony to clarify both of those issues. Thank you. I'm available for any questions.

Thank you. Next up, we have Department of Budget and Finance with comments. Is BNF here or online? Shame. Okay, next up, Hawaii Board of Veterinary Medicine with comments.

Thank you. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Kerry Shahan. I'm the Executive officer of the Hawaii Board of Veterinary Medicine. The board is in support of this measure, but does note that it may pose a hardship to individuals on fixed incomes and on neighbor islands which may have limited veterinary services.

The board's main concern is that early sterilization of male cats can lead to increased difficulties in treating lower urinary tract diseases and urethral obstructions. The board requests that the Legislature consider amending the age at which sterilization is required on pages 1, lines 4 through 7, from 3 months to.

To 5 months of age as recommended by the American Association of Feline Practitioners, or to change the language to a minimum weight of six pounds and the eruption of the cat's adult canine teeth. Thank you for your opportunity for this opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Next up, we have the American Bird Conservancy in support. Over Zoom.

Aloha. My name is Grant Sizemore, and I'm speaking today on behalf of American Bird Conservancy and our supporters throughout Hawaii. I strongly Support House Bill 364. I think this Bill would help support responsible cat ownership and take necessary steps to address what is. I'm sure everyone is aware of a cat overpopulation crisis throughout the state.

You know, the Bill would widely benefit cat health and welfare according to policies that were just referred to that have been endorsed by the American Association of Feline Practitioners, American Veterinary Medical Association, Association of Shelter Veterinarians.

Spaying or neutering cats before they become sexually active can reduce cancer risks, can eliminate reproductive emergencies, can avoid unintended pregnancies, and can decrease. I've kept a kid in my office. What a wonderful time to come in. I would be in favor of this suggested amendment moving the age from three months to five months.

But I do want to say that this Bill would turn off the tap of unintended pet cat reproduction, which is really essential to address the overpopulation crisis that we're experiencing. It would also reduce harms to Hawaii's threatened and endangered wildlife, as well as risk to public health.

And by requiring that that financial support not contribute to the release of these cats back into the environment, it will also reduce strains on animal control providers and generate financial Support for responsible pet ownership, really, all in all, I think it's a critical Bill, essential for addressing this overwhelming problem that has plagued us for such a long time.

And personally, as a lifelong cat owner and wildlife biologist, I strongly support this Bill and appreciate the opportunity to testify today. Mahalo.

All right, thank you. Next up, we have the Hawaiian Humane Society in support.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Stephanie Kendrick with the Hawaiian Humane Society. You have our written testimony and strong support of this measure. This is my eighth session talking about animal welfare now in front of this body.

And this is the first Bill I've ever seen with such overwhelming support from both our conservation community and our animal welfare community. It just does my heart good to see something that we can come together on.

I do find it somewhat ironic that the testimony that is common on the conservation side highlights this Bill as being a vehicle to reduce the number of free roaming cats in our islands.

Because one of two amendments that we suggest is due to our concern that it doesn't do enough to reduce the number of free roaming cats on our islands.

By restricting the spay neuter grants to organizations that commit to not returning cats to their outdoor homes, we are limiting the amount of impact that this measure could have on reducing the number of free roaming cats to spaying and neutering pet animals and spaying and neutering cats that will go into one of the very small number of sanctuaries that we have in our state.

So I would urge the Committee to reconsider placing that limit on the expenditure of these funds because that limit reduces the amount of impact this is going to have on reducing our free roaming cat population.

I also point out, as the county animal services contractor for the city and County of Honolulu, this measure does ask the counties to enforce the breeder restrictions. We are fully in support of breeder restrictions and mandatory spay neuter. But county animal services throughout our state are already underfunded.

So we would strongly urge if the state is going to impose this mandate on the counties to enforce that. They would attach some funding to that. Thank you for your consideration and I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Next up, we have the Wildlife Society, the Wildlife Society. I'm the Conservation affairs chair for it. I support and the Wildlife Society supports this Bill in regards to reducing the amount of unwanted cats being put out onto the landscape.

We are, have, have worked with our partners over at the animal control areas and would hope to work towards getting sterilization more widely available as well as further funded.

We believe that this is a necessary means to reduce the potential predation as well as disease movement through our community, both for humans as well as other cats as well as the wildlife that we are working towards protecting. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Thank you.

Thank you. We have a number of individuals testifying today as well. First up we have Vivian Tolner in support over Zoom.

Hello, Aloha. My name is Vivian Sue Tolner from the east side of the Big island of Hawaii. I would like to see our state support free low cost spay and neuter clinics held by volunteer nonprofits here on the Big island of Hawaii. I have volunteered and helped organize over 100 such cat clinics in the Puna community.

I know this would be a wise use of our tax dollars. Currently, Pet Fix Hawaii is holding KR clinics most every Saturday and Sunday doing 100 cats each day. Clearly the community wants and needs this service. Yes, there are that many cats out there.

Now if other means had worked Roundup such as Roundup and killing, we would not be having this problem today. Now I too love native birds and animals and want us to increase their safety with this spay Neuter Bill. Trap neuter return managed cats need to be eligible for these funds as not doing so only creates more cats.

Please support the humane reduction in animal overpopulation. The veterinarians, the vet techs, the volunteers, the pet owners, the trap neuter return managed caretakers and all are supporting spay and neuter with their many long hours of community work and donations. Cats are free roaming by nature. Even an indoor pet cat can get out and never return home.

Cats are abandoned at parks and transfer stations. Turning away trapped neuter return cats is not protective. It is far better to sterilize all cats that come to a clinic. Remember, the goal is to reduce the number of cats and thereby protect the native animals.

That's been two minutes. Can you please summarize and conclude your testimony?

Okay. Basically we have a catastrophe. And I. Hope we can even do more than $500,000. We need that alone on the Big Island. Please, this is no joke. Please support this Bill and aloha and mahalo for your time. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up we have Nancy Mondin in opposition.

Hello. Thank you for allowing me to speak. HB364 is taking away rights of anyone having a cap kitten over three months. To sterilize a kitten so young could have health ramifications. In addition, this Bill may worsen the problem on unwanted cats. People may just not take their cats to Be seen by a veterinarian for vaccinations or anything.

The disease will spread because they're not vaccinated like sea lion leukemia. And this will cause a bigger public health problem, not only to the cats, maybe to other populations. How many breeders of cats do we have in Hawaii? A lot of cats come from, you know, our feral cats.

When owners cannot afford a spay or noodle and a care for their cat. And when they can't afford to care for the cat, they become feral. Perhaps if spay or neuter was free, there would be less feral population. This Bill gives so much power to veterinarians and none to the owner or consumer.

Who pays the Bill for the vets? The consumer or citizen or resident has the freedom to choose to either keep them intact or neuter their pet. The Bill is unconstitutional to my freedom to choose the best course for my pet and takes away that freedom of choice.

This feels like a socialist, communistic way to control the cat population. Also another way for legislation to get all the money away from the citizens of Hawaii for a few target breeders to take away the rights of consumers to control a social problem.

The special Fund songs like a great idea, but it takes money from taxpayers and other programs that can benefit a lot more people. The cost for spay and neuter of cats have all the veterinaries. My solution is have all the veterinarians. Everyone. If spay and neuter is such a big problem, have a flat rate across the board.

Anyone can take them.

Okay, thank you, Nancy. Let's spend two minutes. If you could summarize and go conclude your testimony, please.

Okay. This Bill affects a small population of calf breeders, but I agree there is an overpopulation. Using taxpayer money to consumer rights away for their beloved pet is not the way you could use the money better with housing, education, residents, Hawaii, they need to have free spay or neuter so that more people can afford it.

Veterinarian, spay and lunar is very expensive people in Hawaii. Thank you, Nancy.

That's been two minutes. Thank you for your testimony. Next up we have Jane Arnold in support.

Okay, not present. Next up, we have Ohaku Stormcrow in support. Not present. Okay, that's all the testifiers we have on the list. Anyone in. Anyone wish to provide further testimony on this bill, either in person or over zoom, please.

Thank you, chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members, for this opportunity. My name is Ginny Tu, and I am just an animal welfare advocate. I strongly support this bill, HB 364, because there's nothing perfect. We know that in our world, and there's concern about, you know, spay neutering too young or things like that.

But when you look at the consequences of not getting them spay neutered, I think we need to do this for the animals, for the cats, for the birds, for the community.

We know it is a problem, but we have to find humane solutions and not just want to get rid of them, whether it's through poison or whatever, eradicate them. That is not the answer. So spay neutering them is. Is really the most humane and effective way. It's been proven nationally as well.

I think we need to go with this route. We have to be proactive and not reactive, and it needs funding. We know that. So I just really strongly support this bill with the amendments to try and control this problem that we have in the community.

It is a community problem, and it's up to us that are able to. To introduce bills or to support bills that will take care of more or most of it. Like I said, there's nothing. No perfect solution ever. But we have to look at the big picture. Thank you very much for your time.

Okay, thank you. Anyone else here to testify on this measure? See none. Members, any question? Yeah, I've got one for the Humane Society. So this bill is spay neuter program for cat owners, not tapping into the feral cat population, which I understand a lot of people want. But I think this is more of the compromise bill.

It is. My question, though, is, do you think that this is going to have a significant impact on the feral cat population as it is? Do enough people release their cats without spay and neutering? Typically.

So this will have an impact on, as Grant said, turning off the tap in that if more pet cats are spayed and neutered, we know due to a recent survey on Oahu that about 35% of pet owners report letting their pets outside. And of those 35%, about 20% say those cats aren't spayed and neutered.

So this will have an impact around the margins by making sure that pet cats are spayed. And neutered so that they're not breeding accidentally when let outdoors. As I mentioned, we think it would have a larger impact if the funds could also be used to support TNRM efforts.

Thank you. And I have a question for the Hawaii Board of Veterinary Medicine. So you said that you would like the age moved from three months to five months. Is that just for male cats or is that for female cats as well?

That is for male cats.

So would it be reasonable to set the female cat sterilization at three months and the male cat at five or I would need to go back and check with the veterinarians on the board. When we spoke earlier, they were more concerned with the male cats at the three months early sterilization.

Male cats.

But I could get that information for you either later today or first thing in the morning, depending on how quickly I can reach my Advisory Committee.

Yes, please get me the information. I'll distribute it to the Committee. You may also want to testify or put that into your testimony for the next Bill if it's heard of the next Committee as well. Thank you. Members, any further questions? Okay, seeing none. We'll move on. Next up, we have HB380 relating to regulation of tobacco products.

First up, we have Attorney General in support.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Chelsea Okamoto. I'm a Deputy Attorney General with the Tobacco Enforcement Unit. Thank you for hearing this Bill. Our department's in support of this Bill and we do ask that a savings clause be added and the section numbers be renumbered as noted in our testimony.

But we do note that counties have passed more stringent bills to stop the sale of these flavored tobacco products that are affecting our youth. And we applaud their efforts and we want to continue to support that. So we ask you pass the Bill with our amendments and we're available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, Department of Health and support.

Good afternoon, Chair Matayoshi and Members of the Committee. I'm Lola Ervin representing Director Kenny Fink for the Department of Health. And I thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony.

So the Department of Health does value the community knowledge and experience and their desire to care for their Keiki and Ohana and know that they know their communities and so re establishing and allowing the county committees, councils to set up policies that are more stringent than what we have at the state level for tobacco would actually then allow them to use this community assessment and knowledge in practice in their policies.

We do have an issue though, that in 2018, legislation was passed through Act 206 and it was done during conference Committee and it was done without county, the county's ability to give input. And so they lost their ability to pass more stringent policies without input.

So we do hope that their authority at the local level will be restored. And so we thank you so much for the opportunity to provide comment. I mean, support.

Thank you, thank you. Next up, we have the Hawaii State Association of Counties in support.

Aloha. Thank you, chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, my name is Nahilani Parsons. I'm here to testify in support of HB380 on behalf of the Hawaii State Association of Counties. I just want to mention, restoring local control will not reduce the state funds.

Rather, it will benefit the state by lowering health care costs through better health outcomes.

If fewer of our young people start stop smoking, Counties can also implement stronger protections like restricting flavored tobacco to curb youth vaping, restoring local control supports home rule, allows for innovative policies, and ultimately protects public health while saving the state money in the long run. So thank you for hearing this measure. Available if you have questions.

Thank you. Next up, Coalition for a Tobacco Free Hawaii Youth Council in support. Luke, are you online? You had to go back to class. What a good kid. All right, next up, American Cancer Society Action Network in support.

Thank you, Chair, vice chairs and Committee Members. My name is Cynthia Au. I'm the government relations Director for American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network, and we stand in support of this important Bill.

Cancer is the second leading cause of death, but in the State of Hawaii, more than 9,000 residents from Hawaii will be diagnosed with cancer, with more than 2,000 residents expected to die from the disease. And an estimated 1400 adults in Hawaii will die from smoking each year.

So this Bill would be very important to move on and to pass as it will decrease and be better have better health outcomes for the people in Hawaii. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, Hawaii Public Health Institute in support.

Aloha. And good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. I'm Kevin Ramirez, the program manager for the Coalition for Tobacco Free Hawaii, a program of the Hawaii Public Health Institute, testifying in strong support for HB380. Since 2017, youth use of electronic smoking devices has soared with flavors being a major driver.

The problem is statewide, but over the years has been felt more acutely in our counties with prevalence rates well above the state average year after year. Because of these alarming numbers, three out of four counties have now passed ordinances to end the sale of all flavored tobacco products within their counties.

The councils and mayors worked with youth to pass these policies, though they are unable to go into effect without state legislation. By passing HB308, the counties will be able 380 the counties will be able to enact these important policies.

Voters also support this Recent Polling found that 86% of registered Hawaii voters believe counties should have the ability to regulate tobacco products at the point of sale. Thank you for your consideration of HB380. We respectfully ask you to pass this measure. Mahalo.

Thank you. Next up, we have Taxpayers Protection alliance with comments.

Yes, thank you Chair Vice Chair Members of the Committee, thank you for your time today. My name is Lindsey Stroud and I'm a senior fellow at the Taxpayers protection alliance. Since 2021, TPA has analyzed CDC data on tobacco and vapor product use across all 50 states and I'm drawing from that research today.

Tobacco preemption laws originally intended to address youth and adult tobacco use have instead led to local restrictions that limit adult access to significantly less harmful alternatives. We've seen this pattern in states like California and Massachusetts, despite key public health data telling a different story. First, youth Youth smoking has reached record lows in Hawaii.

Only 3% of high school students reported smoking in the past month. In 2023, even youth E cigarette use has dropped significantly, down nearly 57% since 2019. Hawaii is also unique in that for the first time, more adults are vaping than smoking. In 202310.1% of adults used E cigarettes while only 9% smoke combustible cigarettes.

Between 2022 and 2023, smoking rates decreased by 27.4% among Hawaiian adults, while vaping rates increased by 17.4%. Smoking among among Hawaiian adults age 18 to 24 years old has plummeted by nearly 75% in the past 20 years, from 22.3% of young adults smoking in 2003 to just 5.6% in 2023.

This shift warrants further examination at the state level may be witnessing a long term trend that could eliminate combustible cigarette use altogether. Many public health bodies, including the Fda, acknowledge that E cigarettes are not only safer than smoking, but can also help adults quit.

I have submitted written testimonies for their details and data, but the evidence is clear. Hawaii's current policies are working. Rather than imposing restrictive local measures, we should focus on policies that continue supporting this progress. Happy to answer any questions and thank you for your time again.

Thank you. Next up, we have Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids Hawaii in support.

Aloha Chair Vice Chair Members of the Committee, Liza Ryan Gill, campaign manager for the campaign for Tobacco Free Kids here in Hawaii. And just to respond to some of the. I haven't had the chance to go through their testimony to see where, what they're drawing from.

But as we look at the, as we look at our data here in Hawaii, we are seeing more regular use from our high schoolers and middle schoolers.

We may have seen see slightly fewer though I remind you that some of the data that we're looking at now is a little anomalous because it went through Covid and kids were at home by themselves and didn't have as much access to these products.

And so I think we need to take that into consideration as well when we're looking at this. And just as a reminder, we've worked with youth across these counties. They have put their heart and soul into passing these policies. It continues to be their priority.

And many of them can't be here today because they are in schools where they are actively having to fight for the time and the space and the attention to be able to focus on their learning when they have so many things coming at them, including tobacco companies that are marketing them sweet products online on social media, thinking that this is going to help them with their anxiety.

And in the end what it does is put them on this roller coaster of even greater anxiety.

And so what I hope is that we bring all those 12 or 10 to 14 year olds in our mind, in our heart, in here and go, how can we help them do the things that we all want for them to be healthy, thriving, learning, and not be preyed upon by these companies that are continually selling them things that they tell them are less harmful, that are really, really, really deleterious to their attention and just their mental health in General.

So thank you for your time.

Thank you. Next up, we have Marukin Market in opposition.

Hi, my name is Travis Yoshinaga and sorry, I'm nervous, I'm not a good speaker, but this just comes from the heart. Um, it's, it's hard, so hard to survive in Hawaii. Work 90 hour weeks with small profit margins, thefts and crime rates are the worst I've seen in the 12 plus years I've owned a store.

It's okay now for people to walk in, take what they want every day. This past Monday, I had a big knife put on me because I didn't want to sell him alcohol because he was intoxicated and bullying people for money in and outside of my store every year.

Rent, maintenance fees, insurance and so on are rising out of control. Your Bill will force closures of many stores and will be priced out of paradise. I worked so hard to just succeed and live in Hawaii, my home. I understand you have good intentions and I strongly don't want teens to start smoking too.

For the worker, I'd never sold anything to a miner for the past almost 13 years. And you guys always inspect me and I've always passed. With my experience in the industry, I'm willing to work with anyone that wants to work with me on ideas on how to help people quit.

I think as a neighborhood store owner, we can be perfect counselors to our customers. If you ban things outright, it just creates a black market and the criminals will prosper and honest businesses will suffer because we built relationships with our customers. We can promote help you quit brochure maybe on our counters.

That should be mandatory on all counters. And from there we can talk to our customers and let them know that there's options to quit and we can actually help them quit. And they would actually listen to us more than they listen to a law.

Also, we should also maybe be required to put, I mean sell nicotine patches at all businesses and even maybe to have that on the counter. I'm just trying to throw different ideas out there. I want to find a middle ground and I do think people should quit.

I smoked before when I was young and I did quit and I agree with a lot of things. But at the same time too, it is also going to have a negative on a lot of businesses and it's just too hard to make it right now.

It's just going to force us to close down and possibly move out of Hawaii. So thank you. Travis, that's been two minutes. If you could summarize and conclude. No, that's. That's everything I have to say. So thank you for your time.

Thank you. Next up, we have number one store in opposition. Okay. Not present. Next up, America. Okay, go ahead.

Yeah. Aloha. Good afternoon. My name is Hee Nam Hwang. I am local business owner in Honolulu. I have owned my store for 20 years. I oppose HB380. I may not speak good English, but I am very responsible owner. This Bill will be helpful for store owners like me.

Thursday we lost a lot of tax dollar and we cost state even more money. Please do not press dispatch of regulation Bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, American Heart Association in support, Evan Oy.

On behalf of the American Heart Association chair, we just stand in strong support of this measure and available for any questions thank you.

Next up, American Lung Association in support.

Aloha chair, Vice Chair Pedro Haro, Executive Director of the American Lung Association. Thank you so much for hearing the Bill and also particularly to the chair. Thank you so much for your commitment to this issue for so long. We really appreciate how much you've been trying to champion this. Unfortunately, it's another year here we are.

And I know that I'm preaching to the choir, but we have to remember this. Every major piece of tobacco legislation that we have in the state has, has started at the county level. This body has never had much of an appetite for passing tobacco control issues.

So stopping the counties from enacting these types of policies is essentially equal to saying, we don't want to change vaping in Hawaii. It just is. You can look back at the much history around flavors around tobacco legislation. It equals that.

And for us to be able to doing that, we have to think about the tax dollars and the benefits to businesses that are done on the back of the futures of our current keiki. Their lives are more, are less important than our tax dollars or the or business profits is what we're saying by not passing this legislation.

And it's also on the backs of the future health care for Hawaii. We are simply kicking the can down though block and then leave the other generations to deal with things like lung cancer and other diseases that are caused by tobacco. So, you know, I know I'm preaching to the choir.

I don't know what else we can tell legislators to move something out of it. I'm throwing my hands up and saying, please, please. I think enough of our residents have died from tobacco for us to realize the harm.

So I don't think that there's any statistics or any data that we can provide any lawmakers that makes it any more clear.

I think it's just having the fortitude that the counties have had for all of these decades to push it back to the counties to allow them to enact legislation and policies that is important for their communities. Thank you.

Thank you. We also have a number of individuals submitting testimony, mostly in support. A couple in opposition. Only one, Don Weisman, has indicated he wants to speak today. Don, are you there?

Yes, I'm here. Can you see me or hear me?

Yes, we can. Go ahead.

Okay, great. Yeah, yeah. A lot of you know me. I worked for 34 years as a paid health advocate in our state. So you may wonder why I retired last year. Why am I here today? This issue is really important to me.

It's unfinished business that I think is one of the most important health issues facing our state. Tobacco remains the leading cause of death in our state. Leading preventable cause of death. It costs our state over a half $1.0 billion a year in health care costs. So I'm a non smoker.

It costs me through health care costs, increased health care costs to cover those costs. You know, the state brings in roughly 100 million a year. So we're losing 6 to 1 every year. And how much money we bring in versus how much we're spending, this is a really important issue. You know, for years, counties led the way.

We went, we got the smoke free air law passed going county by county first. And then the state saw that the sky wasn't going to fall in. Businesses were seeing that business was actually better without smoke. And we got the state law passed finally. But it was county by county first. And that, that was the tradition.

Counties always led the way. The tobacco industry knew that too. And for years, every year, we had to fight off efforts to take away the county's efforts. Our abilities to pass legislation even one year having Governor Waihei have to veto a Bill that got through. And then finally in 2018, the industry got their way.

They managed at last minute, add this legislation, this piece of, to another piece of legislation that funded kidney dialysis centers. We could not then try to get the Bill vetoed because we would have ended up killing dialysis patients. And we couldn't do that. So that's how the Bill got passed. It shouldn't have been passed.

In fact, a year later, the Supreme Court ruled that that type of amendment to a Bill last minute without any public hearings is unconstitutional. So it was grandfathered in. But today that wouldn't happen. So we need to go back and fix this mistake that was made to favor the tobacco industry over our kids.

There are new products coming out beyond vapes that are flavored. There are new oral products that are going to become the next big problem for our state. Nicotine is a huge problem from a health standpoint, especially for cardiovascular disease.

And so we need to get ahead of that before it gets out the barn and down the road like the vapes did. So I'm here to testify for your strong support of House Bill 380.

And let's give our local communities an opportunity to address these problems that are having a major impact on not just our kids health, but our state health in General. Mahalo.

Thank you. That's all the testifiers we have listed. Anyone else here to testify on this measure?

Allah.

Okay, please state your Name and whether you're in favor or in opposition.

Aloha. My name is Cardenas Pintor. I am testifying in opposition as an individual. People do not think about this, but flavored tobacco products is a form of harm reduction. In a research survey of. In a sub analysis research survey of 7,746 participants, there were former and current smokers.

3,770 participants considered tobacco flavors actually helped avoid relapse of smoking. And the main reasons why people in 8th, 10th and 12th graders are using vaporizers are because of experimentation, taste, boredom, having a good time and relaxation. Banning flavored vapes in Hawaii by preemption can cause more harm and we have seen it before.

There has only been one amendment that has been repealed, which is the 18th amendment prohibition on alcohol. This led to unintended consequences of banning alcohol, of banning alcohol which led to restaurants failing, closure of businesses, less tax revenues, serious consequences, serious consequences for public health concerns and the opening of a black market.

The black market is especially prevalent as a black market can cause an increase of crimes and gang violence in America. Alternatively, lawmakers can instead increase taxes on flavored tobacco products. As there is such a difference between making something illegal and making something inaccessible.

Making something illegal can mean it is unofficial, meaning people are still able to do it. Inaccessible is something that is out of reach. If we wanted to help our keiki, we should get on.

We should focus on getting into the root problems of alleviating boredom and giving more keiki places and activities to relax, such as funding teachers to run extracurricular activities in the DOE system. If we wanted to ban electronic tobacco or flavored vapes, we have to make it inaccessible by increasing taxes.

This Bill fails to fix the issue at hand, which is finding a way to stop keiki from using and getting electronic tobacco products. Flavored electronic tobacco products. Because people will always find a supplier, especially in the black market.

Okay, thank you. That's been two minutes. Can you please conclude and summarize your testimony?

Lastly, I do want to say that I was a Honolulu youth Commissioner and I did support a resolution before saying that we support banning vapes. And personally for me, I deeply regret that supporting that resolution. Now as a social worker, mahalo.

Anyone else here to testify on this measure? Okay, hearing none. Members, any questions please?

Vice Chair, question for DoH. Good afternoon, Lola. So hopefully you can answer this question because I've been keeping up. But my understanding is the counties have all counties passed some type of flavor tobacco ordinance?

Yes, they have. That would go into effect if this preemption is lifted. I believe Kauai may be the only one remaining that has not passed it yet, but they are definitely contemplating and working on it. So yes, there are one. And actually this Bill was requested by the counties.

And then just a quick follow up. Are there major differences between the different ordinances?

Not major differences, no. They're all responding to the fact that especially in the neighbor island counties, the use of E cigarettes is much higher for the youth than even statewide. The other thing that's happened, and you'll find it in our testimony, is with the young adult population where we were quite slow to see what was happening.

And we have been coming here for over 10 years asking for restrictions on the sale of e cigarettes. Our 18 to 24 year olds now are using E cigarettes at a much higher level. And so we've had an erosion of our tobacco prevention rates and just a success in terms of protecting health.

And so more than 20% of our young adults are using E cigarettes. In Hawaii County, it's even higher. It's 22%. So I apologize. It's actually closer to 25%. And then high school students, in terms of every use is middle school students, in terms of Every use is 22%. 14% of middle school students are currently using.

5% of middle school students report frequent use and 4% daily use. So it is addictive. It has much higher nicotine content.

And from the time when, about 14 years ago when we started to bring this issue up, the nicotine content has increased so much more so that it's equal to about three to four packs of cigarettes in one E cigarette. So thank you for your question and I know I over answered, it tends to be a habit.

My apologies, Chair. Chair Representative Chen, any follow ups?

Any other questions? All right, seeing none. Let's move to our last bill of the agenda, HB 1433 relating to eviction mediation. First up, we have the Mediation Center of the Pacific in support.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. The Mediation Center of the Pacific strongly supports House Bill 1433. My only comment in addition to the written testimony is to think in terms of this is changing a culture. The culture is tenants get behind, they don't say anything because they're embarrassed, they're scared, they're overwhelmed.

Landlords give them a chance, then the hole gets dug really big and the landlords have no choice but to evict. We're trying to create a culture where landlords and tenants talk early before there's a big hole, so there is a possibility of helping them negotiate payment plans. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, Hawaii Realtors with comments.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Lyndsey Garcia from Hawaii Realtors. Wanted to echo the wonderful comments of the mediation center. We do support the intent of this measure. We do also have a couple comments to make. One is that we ask that-- This bill seems to extend the process for eviction.

We do believe that these processes can happen in parallel. And so we just ask that the process not be extended, and that there should be ideally a timeline for the mediation to conclude.

And we also wanted to point out again that the previous eviction mediation program for Act 57 was successful in the pandemic in large part due to rent relief. This helped both tenants struggling to make their rental payments as well as landlords trying to make their mortgage payments.

And without emergency rent relief, the mediation process alone may not be enough to help tenants who are struggling to pay rent. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else here to testify in this measure? Seeing none. Members, any questions? We're going to recess for decision making. Recess.

Reconvening the Committee on Consumer Protection and Commerce. It is still Wednesday, January 29, 2025 in room 329 we are. First up we've got HB 108 relating to intoxicating liquor. Chair's recommendation is to Defer decision making one day to tomorrow's agenda.

Same room, but at 2pm I would like to hear the reciprocity, get more information on reciprocity agreements and then we can go forward with that. My inclination is to allow Martin said had a really good idea to only allow licensees from states that also would allow our guys to sell with them.

So we could put that language in there to kind of force the reciprocity. But I would still like a little more information on existing reciprocity agreements and how they function. So deferred decision making for one day till tomorrow's agenda. Up next, HB 364 relating to animal control.

We're going to be chairs of recommendation is to adopt the AG's amendments for placement of the Advisory Committee in Budget and Finance and to codify the Special Fund in Budget and Finance's HRS chapter. I do want to adopt DOE taxes amendment for section two changing the effective date for the checkbox to taxable years starting December 31, 2025.

I also want to adopt Hawaii Board of Veterinary Medicines amendments for when sterilizations are needed for male cats. Moving that to five months but keeping three months for female cats. There was. It looks like there's a typo in there.

Although the bill introducer can come and tell me if this is wrong, but we will be changing HRS reference from. To a reference to HRS Chapter 711-1109.7 to 71111-1109.37, which I believe refers to the correct Animal Cruelty chapter or Animal Mistreatment chapter.

We're going to be deleting the language for the license plate, blanking the appropriation amount and defecting the date to July 1, 3,000 Members. Any comments?

Yeah, I'd like to thank the introducers of this bill. Great intent. We should decrease the amount of cats roaming around that are potentially harming birds and, you know, making messes on the sidewalk and such. And then thank you, Stephanie, so much for being a part of our town hall about decreasing the population of feral cats.

The reason I'm voting no is because, like my mom, she had a Himalayan cat and she breeded her and she probably had three litters a year. And then each cat was sold for a lot of money. Kitten. And then we'd use all those funds to donate to Shared Hope International, which is combating human trafficking.

And so this is an unregistered breeder using her pets to have money to combat human trafficking. So this bill would eliminate that. And the quick workaround is, well, my mom could be a registered breeder, but that's more regulation than the government and I don't support all that kind of regulation.

So. Okay, thank you. Any other comments that. Vice Chair for the vote.

So there's other ways to get to the same goal without this bill.

Members voting on House Bill 364, Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. Chair and Vice Chair vote. aye, Representative Ilagan. Representative Ichiyama. Aye. Representative Iwamoto. Aye. Representative Kong. No.

Representative Lowen. Excuse. Representative Martin. Representative Tam. Aye. And Representative Pierick. Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Members. Moving on to HB 380 relating to the regulation of tobacco products. Chair's recommendation is to adopt the AG's amendments at a savings clause and to defect the date to July 1, 3,000 Members. Any comments? Vice Chair for the vote.

Members voting on House Bill 380. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments noting the excused absence of Representative Lowen. Are there any Members who wish to vote with reservations? Any Members wish to vote? No. No for Rep. Call Anybody else seeing None. Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, Members. Last up on the agenda, HB 1433 relating to eviction mediation. Chair's recommendation is to add language setting an outer outside limit for the mediation to conclude with a blank time. I would like future testifiers to comment on how long that time should be. We're also going to be defecting the date to July 1, 3,000.

Members. Any comments? Vice Chair for the vote?

Members voting on House Bill 1433. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments noting the excused absence of Representative Lowen. Is there any Members wish to vote with reservations? Any Members wish to vote? No. Seeing no others, your recommendation is adopted. Thank you, Members.

We are adjourned.

SA.