Senate Standing Committee on Education

Good afternoon. Like to call the Committee, a Joint Committee hearing on the Committee of Higher Education and the Committee on Education to order. Today is Tuesday. We are in room, February 11, Room 229. We are on the 3 o'clock agenda. We have Senate Bill 426 relating to an early learning apprenticeship grant program.

And before we call up the testifiers, this meeting is being streamed live on YouTube. And in the unlikely event that we have to abruptly end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the Committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on Thursday at 3pm in this Room 229, and a public notice will posted on the Legislature's website.

Because of the length of the agenda and the fact that we do have a hard stop at 4:30, there will be a 1 minute time limit per testifier, and I'll be reading from the list of individuals who submitted written testimony as they're here in person and then I will go to the Zoom, people on Zoom.

So I apologize if the closed caption don't accurately transcribe your names. We do have all testimonies that has been submitted, so we have been reviewing them. And with that, I am going to start with Jordana Ferreira testifying from the City and County of Honolulu on Senate Bill 426.

Aloha, Chair Mercado Kim, Chair Kidani, Members of the Committees. My name is Jordana Ferreira. I'm with the City and County of Honolulu on behalf of Director Krucky with Department of Community Services. We stand on our written testimony in strong support of this measure, and we're happy to answer any questions. Mahalo.

Thank you. Following Jordana is Ryan Yamane from the Department of Human Services. Let's see. Leinaʻala Ley, Office of Hawaiian Affairs. From the Early Learning Office, Yuuko.

Hi, Chair Kim and Chair Kidani, Senator Hashimoto. I'm Yuuko Arikawa-Cross, Director of the Executive Office on Early Learning. We support SB 426 and defer to the University of Hawaii on implementation and funding. Many people entering the early learning field are non-traditional students who really benefit from the additional wraparound support and mentoring included in this model. EOEL welcomes the opportunity to collaborate with UH on the grant award criteria and appreciates the Legislature's continued investment in our keiki and their families. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Let's see. Nathan Murata in support.

Hi, Chair Kim. Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Chair Kidani, Members of Committee. Nathan Murata, Dean, College of Education, UH Manoa. We stand in support of this particular measure, and I'm available for questioning. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Let's see. Candace Park, Deputy Attorney General.

I just want to point out that we recommend identifying the bill as a statewide concern.

Got it. Thank you. That's the best kind of amendments. Okay. Vivian Eto. Aloha, Vivian.

Aloha, Chair Kim. Aloha, Chair Kidani and Senators. I'm Vivian Eto with Early Childhood Action Strategy, and I'm here to stand on our written testimony in support of this measure, and I'm available for any questions.

Thank you so much. Okay. Chevelle Davis.

Aloha, Chair Kim, Chair Kidani, and Senators. My name is Chevelle Davis and I'm with Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks, and I stand on our written testimony in support. And mahalo you for hearing this bill, and I'm available for any questions.

Thank you. Terry Lock.

Aloha, Chair Kim, Chair Kidani, and Members of the Committee. I'm Terry Lock. I work at the University of Hawaii. I'm the Director of the Hawaii Early Childhood Educator Excellence and Equity Project. Was able to support the first registered apprenticeship program in our state. And I just stand in support of this measure, and if you have any questions, please let me know. Thank you.

We have Kiana Kauwe on Zoom. Kiana.

Aloha. Thank you for allowing me to testify on Maui. My name is Kiana. I've been a longtime DOE educator as well as a recent Master's of early childhood education graduate from UH Manoa. I'm currently at home taking care of my one year old baby. I stand in strong support of this bill because we must begin to invest in early childhood high quality education. It's not babysitting, it's brain building. And research shows that 90% of the brain develops in the first five years, so making a well trained, educated educators are essential.

This program removes financial barriers by providing paid hands on training while ensuring high quality professional development. I myself have stayed in the field of early childhood because it can be stressful and it is complex. But I've stayed in the field because I've had a strong support system and been involved in professional learning community. So thank you so much for hearing me.

Thank you, Kiana. We have approximately 28 other testimonies in support. So is there anyone in this room wishing to testify that I didn't call your name? Anybody on Zoom that you didn't call on? Okay. With that, Members, we're open to questions. Any questions for any of the testifiers? I do have a question for UH. The bill is blank on the cost. What is the estimated cost for the program?

Estimated. Thank you, Chair, for the question. Estimated cost is 15 for the first year. 15, sorry. 14.5 million in the year 2025-26, 26-27 another 15 million.

And then you're going to need this appropriation on a continuum, is that it? Or once you have this, then it can proceed without this kind of funding, this level of funding?

For the future? Well, I think we may have to look at future funding as well because, as part of the apprenticeship program, unless there's some kind of way to generate these funds outside of an apprenticeship type model, will require future funding as well.

Okay, so something that might have to go into your base budget at some point in time.

Yes.

Along with everything else.

Okay. Members, any other questions? Senator Kidani.

Yes.

Thank you. Thank you, Nathan. So my question is, have you been working with EOEL, and do you have someone in mind to head this program?

Yes, we have. And we're also working very closely with our colleagues Keiki O ka Aina too. But yes, we do have someone in mind on staff at the college to help administer this program.

Thank you.

Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? If not, we'll go into decision making. The recommendation is to amend Senate Bill 426 with technical, non-substantive amendments and that we defect the date to July 31, 2050 and that we add in the concern of the AG with this bill as a law of statewide concern. We will note some of the estimated costs in the Committee report. Any discussion, Members? If not, the Chair votes aye.

Senate Bill 426, recommendation is to pass unamended?

No, with amendments.

With amendments. Chair votes aye. [Roll Call] Measure's adopted, Madam Chair.

Thank you. And now for Education. Do I have the vote sheet?

I have the vote sheet.

Oh, you have the vote sheet.

For Education. Same recommendation, Madam Chair?

Yes.

So for the Committee on Education, Chair's recommendations to pass with amendments. [Roll Call] Chair, recommendation's adopted.

Okay. And that adjourns our. Like to call to order the Committee on Higher Education jointly with the Committee on Labor and Technology. I do have the Chair of the Labor Committee. Thank you for being prompt. And we are on the 305 agenda. We have Senate Bill 1622. This is relating to artificial intelligence.

It establishes an appropriate funds to establish the Aloha Intelligence Institute within the University of Hawaii to develop, support and advance artificial intelligence initiatives statewide. We do have Justifying Facilis. There he Is all in black like a bandit.

You're going to come in to take all our money.

This is my favorite media. Good afternoon, Chair Kim. Chair. My name is Vasili Siramus. I'm the Vice President for Research Innovation at UH System. We stand in strong support of this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Christian Fern in support. Sherry Manor in support. Jacob Weineck. Support. John Shepard in support. Anyone else here wishing to testify in this measure? Anyone on Zoom? Not Members. Question. Senator Fukunaga.

I guess, for Vice President Siramus, the only one here, you know, for this particular bill. It was very exciting to see your office in strong support. Can you give some background on how Senate Bill 1622 developed? I understand that there was a large group of town meetings and campus involvement last summer.

So the subject of AI has been very exciting on all campuses. We conducted two large town halls that included over 10 campuses and actually external stakeholders. So the bill itself was designed with input from all our 10 campuses. Everybody is in strong support. It has five pillars.

One pillar is governance and policy, and that has to do with the use of AI. Another pillar is outreach and engagement of how the University will develop a strategy of doing outreach with the business community and also other stakeholders. The third pillar is the research and development, and that's the R and D piece of the AI.

Manoa will take the lead on that. Clearly. The fourth piece is the workforce development within AI, and that includes students and also our faculty, because it is very important that our faculty are very cognizant of the use of AI in their teaching.

And then the fifth pillar of that is AI tools and how we insert AI technology in the hubs of interest for the state and the University. And those being health care, creative industries, advanced manufacturing, data science, astronomy and climate change.

Do you have some sense of how the positions and funding are going to be distributed among the campuses at this point?

Yes, we do. We're going to have one person within each of these five pillars and we're going to have a Director. Each campus or cluster of campuses will take lead on each one of these five pillars.

So we're looking for couple positions in Manoa. 2-3 positions in Manoa, couple positions at HILO, and then three to four positions at community colleges and one at UH West Oahu and the Director. So we're looking for those 10 positions. The positions we're looking also, they're not your typical faculty positions.

We have a new classification for faculty beyond the faculty classification. We have also faculty of practice, which are actually faculty that can join the University from the industry and teach our students. So we're looking for those type of faculty as well, because AI is a fast changing field and we're looking to bring faculty from the industry.

Okay. What sounds really kind of exciting, especially with a lot of the background of our new University President. I did want to kind of focus a little bit on, uh, West Oahu campus, where, as you know, we do have a lot of space.

And, you know, in our recent discussions, you know, a lot of the opportunities of AI, as you've talked about, are really something that I think we can do a lot more with in and around, uh, campus lands, as well as business development.

So I'm particularly hopeful and hope that you will also allocate a fair portion of your staffing to the UH West Oahu campus.

And, and you have some good representatives here. You had Franklin Frankouto, who it is actually on the business enterprise of, of the campus. And so AI is exploding on that field. You have cybersecurity and intelligence. So absolutely, the answer is yes to that.

Thank you.

Thank you, Senator Fukunaga, Senator Kidani.

Yes, thank you for that. Also, because funding would probably depend on, you know, how and how many students are going to be reached. So I appreciate that you guys are considering UH West Oahu, which was built with mine, by the way. What will be the tuition cost?

Do you guys have an idea yet?

I think that the tuition cost for the courses we're going to offer for that are going to be the normal tuition cost that we have for, uh, so whatever we charge for our certificates and also for our tuition at West Oahu, Hilo and Manoa.

Okay, so when and how will they. Be able to enroll?

They will be able to enroll as UH students, and then that would be through the academic programs. And then we're going to have the certificates through the outreach or the certificate programs that the community colleges offer.

So what's the time frame for enrollment to begin?

So we're looking to start soon. So if there is an appropriation. Actually, I had talked to Chair Kim also, and as I told her, we're going to put some of our own internal resources. This is very important for the University. It's very important for the President. It's a good thing to do.

We ask you to be a partner for this endeavor, but we will put our resources. So we're thinking sometime next fall.

Next fall?

Yeah. That soon? That soon.

Thank you. Any other questions? Where, you know, similar to Center for Granada. Where might this be housed? Where would the main head of The Dragon.

So administratively right now it will be housed under the office of the Vice President of Research Innovation, but under me. Yes, we're going to sit it out of that office. We're going to provide initial funding, and as I said, we. That's where it's going to start. I don't know that's where it's going to end.

Because it's much bigger than just research innovation. It includes a lot of other different things. There is, as I said, government and data, the policy. So in a perfect world, it would see it outside my office, maybe it would sit under the President, and that probably would be the right place to be.

But you got to start it somewhere small and then expand it and move it up.

Are you both looking at how you reuse facilities that are not being used to its ultimate purposes, and then also looking at this is the future, AI's future versus diminishing type programs.

And at some point, uh has to make those tough decisions because as we add on all this funding to the base budget, as we did for education and so forth. College of Ed. You know, there comes a time where the fiscal responsibility sticks out its ugly head. Right. Like we're seeing in the Cancer Center.

So what are you folks doing in that? Because to me it's all encompassing. Right.

I believe, and I'm not in the academic area, but I believe Manoa has started pulling some of their vacant positions from all departments and then redeploy those positions in departments where we see interest in strategic areas, whether it's data science, AI.

So that in a way, actually, I don't want to say minimizes, but it does minimize the presence of programs that they're not relevant and actually deploys those resources in programs that they are relevant.

We were told that in the previous meetings that, uh, looks at these programs that may be diminishing or not relevant every 10 years. And things were moving so fast that you folks have a Shorter timeframe that you'd be looking at all of this.

I do believe, and we have the Vice President for Academic Strategy here. I think that we're looking at programs every year and we do review of small programs every year and we do a presentation to the Board of Regents.

Can you share that with the Legislature, this Committee, as far as what are each year, what are you looking at and what's the result? Looking at is one thing. You know, the result is another, right?

Yes. Yes, sir.

And then finally he says, you're not academics yet. This is eventually an academic program.

So whether you're academic Is that my unit? My office does not offer programs. It's more on the innovation, the economic development, the use of AI to actually push the envelope in areas like health care, like astronomy, like oceanography. So in order to do a good job, you're going to have to have both, right? I'm a faculty.

I teach. I used to do research. So one is not decoupled from the other. They go hand in hand. But my. My own personal preference is on the research and economic development innovation piece of AI.

I just don't want to see what happened with ACM.

We have a. We have a. We have a solution for that too.

And then finally, you mentioned specialty faculty. Would these faculty be permanent at some point? And would they be tenure?

Actually, the faculty of practice are not permanent, are temporary positions. And I do believe, personally, I do believe that in areas like this, it's not a bad idea to infuse tenured faculty with faculty that they come from the industry, that they're not tenured and they're temporary in those positions.

Thank you, Members. Any other questions? If not. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Chair.

Members, we'll go. There are no questions or discussion. We go right into decision making. Recommendation is to amend this Chair. Okay. Amend this with an SD1. We'll blank out the appropriation amounts. Will affect defect the date to July 31st, 25th. We will put into the Committee reports discussion regarding concerns about housing and possibly West Oahu.

And I think that's all. Any technical amendments that may need to be made. Any discussion. Okay. If not. Senator Kidani.

For Senate Bill 1622 to pass with amendments for higher education. [Roll Call] Missions adopted. Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Labor and Technology Committee is waiting for quorum. Not yet.

Central Almost. Maybe they have an AI replacement.

Okay. Labor and Technology Committee. Same recommendations. Yes. SD1. Okay. Senator Ihara for the vote, please.

Labor and Technology will be taking a vote on Senate Bill 1622 with a recommendation is to pass with an SD1. [Roll Call] The recommendation is adopted.

Thank you.

With that, we will adjourn the Committee Joint Committee.

Call to order the Committee on Higher Education. Again, we are in room 229. It is about 3:26 on February 11th. And we will start out with Senate Bill 1488. This is relating to the University of Hawaii Conference Center Revolving Fund. Establishing, the Conference Center Revolving Fund accounts under the fund to facilitate administration of result.

Revolving fund for conference centers in various campus. I thought we passed this last year, but apparently it didn't make it to the final. Is that it? Is that why we're here again? So with that, I'm going to call on Kalbert Young, if he's here. Oh, he's hiding in the back. Okay.

Chair, Vice Chai, members. You have the testimony of the University. University supports this measure. Can stand on the testimony. Just real fast. This is kind of a housekeeping measure. There's currently in the statute, two conference center statutes already for the University of Hawaii, one at Hilo and one at the community colleges.

All this Bill seeks to do is to consolidate those two sections of statute and just make it simply the Conference Center Fund for the University.

Did we. We had the similar bill, right, Last year?

And it did.

Yes.

It didn't make it through the legislature.

We passed it out, right?

I don't remember the status. I think it made it to the end, though.

Yeah, I think we did pass it out because it's very familiar. Okay. Anybody else wanting to testify in this measure? Anybody on Zoom? Hearing none. We are going to move to the next agenda item.

We are on Senate Bill 636 relating to the University of Hawaii at Hilo appropriates funds for one retention coordinator position, one internship coordinator position, and a student enrollment management initiative at the University of Hawaii at Hilo. Okay. Sorry about that. We have Kalei Raposa.

Yes, good afternoon, Chair. Kalei Raposa from the University of Hawaii at Hilo here to stand on our written testimony. And I am available to answer questions if you have any.

Okay. You are in support. Yes, he is definitely in support of this. Anyone else? I only have one testifier on this measure. Anyone else wishing to testify? Anyone on Zoom? If not, I do have a question regarding your enrollment.

So you need this position, you're saying a retention coordinator position, intern coordinator position, and a student enrollment management initiative position. Is that correct? You're looking at three positions, or is it just two?

There's actually more than two positions. The internship and student retention coordinator are identified very clearly. The remaining part of the Bill, that 432,000, is for enrollment management initiatives. That includes positions as well as operating funds to support enrollment management on the campus.

So what is your enrollment like in Hilo.

This spring? We're at about 2,500. So we've unfortunately been on the decline, which is why we feel investments in these areas will help us to increase enrollment on our campus.

Now, on the 2500, you include the high school, how many high school students you have taken early courses.

I can get back to you on that. I don't have it readily available.

How many online on.

Are you talking all. Sorry, are you asking about all students or just high school students online?

No, all. Your, Your enrollment, Your enrollment number is about 2500. So of the 2500, how many online.

Sorry, I don't have that information right now, but we can get that to you.

Okay. And if you can include part time and then the high school students, we've asked that of other campuses like West Oahu, so only fair that you show us that information as well. Do you have a retention coordinator now?

No, we don't have one person that's a retention coordinator. The. I think the function is spread amongst different offices.

So you don't have any. Any retention that's devoted directly to retention?

That's correct.

And the internship coordinator does that.

Is that related to this retention?

Sorry. It's related to retention because internships provide experiences for students to hands on learning experiences for students at our campus.

What is your retention rate now?

So our retention rate, it's at about 72 per 70 to 28%. And that would be for the fall 23 cohort?

Yeah, we didn't hear the numbers. Can you repeat the number?

Zero, I'm sorry. For the fall 2023 cohort, that number 72.8% from first to second year.

Do you have an idea of what. What the level of percentage of retention is usually acceptable. Is that correct what I'm saying?

So our targets. Sorry, our target's 80%.

80%. I wonder, what is it? What is at Manoa, do you know? At West Oahu? Perhaps we can get that information on there. Okay, Members, any questions? Senator?

So I guess the question is, what efforts have you made from the University side to implement these type of positions using tuition funds?

We have used Reserve funds to. For an injection of. So we use tuition Reserve for an injection of funds, help provide support for these positions. But we see a. A more long term need for them.

But what. So, so what is your enrollment growth though? Looking like, you know, when we asked West Oahu, their enrollment growth was only a couple percentage points. What is, what is your enrollment projection?

Well, unfortunately, our enrollment trend has been Down. So we are trying very hard to reverse that. We feel that these positions will very much help us in that respect.

So, so what. What has been the trend, though?

Are you looking for an exact percentage.

Or, you know, West Oahu? I guess I could look it up, but you're supposed to have an enrollment plan. I would assume Kilo does the same thing as West Oahu, so I would hope you have the number.

Well, yes, I'm just asking real specifically, are you looking for our past enrollment trend or are you asking about our future plans for enrollment growth?

Well, because I think what we're trying to understand is what is, what is the bigger strategy? Right. In terms of. Okay, so you're going to get, you know, a person that helps with the enrollment management initiatives, but what is, what is the goal that you're trying to achieve?

So, so is it, you know, this will person will help you achieve higher enrollment? You know, what, what is the percentage that we're trying to achieve? I think we're just, just trying to understand where this all fits in. Like, we have this Bill, which is. Okay, you have a standalone Bill. That's great. I do the same thing.

But part of it is we kind of need to understand where you're trying to go with all this. I think that's kind of unclear to me at least.

All right, thank you. I understand your question now. So our plans are for. We're targeting an enrollment growth of 3 to 5%. We have just implemented a strategic enrollment management plan on our campus, and that is our target for growth. 3 to 3 to 5%.

Okay. And then that's. So you're not. So you. When you look at the tuition revenues that you, you raise through that 3 to 5%. That doesn't, that doesn't get, get you anything out of that. It does. Yes. But, but you're not using any of that additional tuition revenues to then invest into retention or like, I think.

What, what, what's the broader. What's the broader plan of trying to incorporate all that?

Okay, so if I just. I just want to make sure I understand your question correctly is how are we looking to invest tuition revenue growth over the next several years with a planned growth of 3 to 5%? Right. Okay, so the tuition revenues would be reinvested back into the campus.

It may not just be in the areas of. That these positions would cover, but looking overall at our strategic plan, our strategic enrollment plan, we'd be reinvesting those revenues into areas of growth on the campus.

Okay, like. Like where.

So that could be in academic programming. These positions that we that are being requested in this Bill would sit primarily in our division for student Affairs.

Okay, well, see, I think the question that, you know, both you and West Oahu face is you both are facing declining enrollment. And so I think what we want to understand is how do you reverse that trajectory?

And part of it is, I bet part of it is that you aren't offering the things that people need to entice them to go to Hilo and to enroll. And so I think, great, you have these one offs, but I think part of it is, is this really going to drive that expansion?

I think that's the question that we're trying to understand. Because if it is, then great. But if it's just, zero, I just want these three positions you funded and there's no broader strategy, then that's what concerns us. At least it concerns me.

Okay, so the internship position coordinator will help to provide connect students with workforce activities. So we feel that investing in that area would provide meaningful opportunities for students and give them something more tangible in their, in their academic progression.

Student Retention coordinator is more of an overall position we'd be identifying at risk students looking at different types of interventions to allow them to continue to persist and remain on our campus.

The overall enrollment management strategy, so that's at 432,000, includes looking at a customer relations manager that ties together the different functions of our enrollment services, how we integrate data to boost enrollment and retention.

That also includes data analyst positions and IT tech support to look at basically take all this data and help to drive decision making for enrollment strategies. Part of that ask also includes or included looking at veteran services Coordinator.

Well, I guess the point is the thing that you have to really tell us is, is it worth you increasing your enrollment by 3% by adding these three positions for that one position at least.

But you know, I think if you ask West Oahu, they said in their enrollment strategy it wasn't just 3%, it was, they were, they're guiding, they were shooting for 10%.

But, you know, so I think we gotta really understand because if you're not going to achieve these results without what you're doing now, without tweaks to what you're doing now, I feel like you can achieve 3% by just with your existing staff.

I would hope that if you want additional positions, it would be way more than 3 to 5%.

Okay, well, we're looking at 3 to 5% per year in targeted recruitment.

Yeah, you better. It's, it's really small right now. You're smaller than high school.

Some high schools, but yes, I get your point. Okay, well, thank you, Chair.

Okay, let me just. Let me just mention that the tuition funds and the revenue from the tuition funds were given over to the University many years ago, and they were to use that tuition funds. And you would think that tuition funds would be used for your retention because these are the students that are there paying tuition.

And if you want to keep them, that's one of the reasons to use your tuition funds. I know tuition funds are being used for a lot of other things that don't have students, like the cancer center, like other areas in which there's no students. And yet millions of dollars are being funneled from the tuition funds.

I'm not saying that this is happening on the Big island, but that's the whole purpose of you keeping your tuition Fund. And you are now encouraged to use those funds to help you retain and get enrollment. So again, you come to us asking us for these positions and stuff.

So I think there's a concern, and I share that with Senator from Maui, about you need to have a better plan. And it's just not at the Big island, but also at West Oahu. And we've been asking these questions for a while now. Senator Kidani, you have a question?

Yes. So if this bill is for staffing, what percentage or what more number of students do you expect to enroll in these programs? Say, 3 to 5%.

Overall enrollment on the campus. We're targeting 3 to 5%.

Yeah. What's the number per year? No, not in percent, in numbers.

Roughly 100 students per year. And that number would increase as the overall enrollment increases because 3% gets bigger, you know, based on the overall enrollment.

And why does the cost double for fiscal year 27?

Well, we typically ask for six months of funds for positions for the first year and that would increase for the second year when they're fully funded.

And was there any funding this year?

No funding this year. We utilize the tuition Reserve, which Reserve Tuition. Tuition Reserve.

And your tuition Reserve is depleted?

No.

How much more you have in your tuition Reserve?

I have to get back to you on that one. We can submit that with our other.

What else is the tuition reserve used for?

Tuition Reserve can be used for? Well, we use it, uh, uses it for, you know, one time expenses if there's large equipment purchase. I think this year we used it as an example for a vehicle purchase to expand field experiences for our geology Department. So that's an example.

Thank you. Okay. But if you don't have enrollment and you don't have students, you're not retaining it, you're not going to have to wish them to do anything. Right.

We'd have less tuition to do things. Yes.

Yeah. So shouldn't you that be one of your number one priorities to use of your tuition funds?

Well, I think our number one priority would be to increase our enrollment. We're seeking assistance from the state doing that through this Bill.

Well, you have tuition funds, which is what we gave to you guys tuition funds years and years ago. So that's the whole purpose of your tuition funds is to use that to continue to get enrollment. Right. And retain. Because every time you come in and what happens if your enrollment goes down?

You give you these positions, it goes down. Then what? Because we do give you folks performance. Performance measure, not measure. What is it? The incentive for performance. And none of the campuses hit the performance and part of it is your enrollment. So it would behoove you not to use your tuition funds continually.

Then you would get the bonuses that we put into the Bill for performance measures.

Okay. I think it's. Campuses have to think that you cannot every time there's a shortfall that they're going to come into the legislature without utilizing or showing us that you really need these funds and that you're exhausting the funds that you already have. So I encourage you to do that. Members, any other questions? Okay.

If not, thank you. We will move on to. And then please don't forget to give those numbers to us because this measures will go on to Ways and Means and we will make the final determination at that point.

We are on Senate Bill 1489, and this requires the University of Hawaii to grant the resident tuition fee for enrollment at any University of Hawaii campus to individuals who have graduated from Hawaii high schools and are enrolling in an undergraduate degree program under certain conditions. We have Keith T. Hayashi from Department of Education.

Aloha Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kidani and members of the committee. Teri Ushijima Assistant Superintendent from the Office of Curriculum Instruction Design. We support this measure. The department defers to the University of Hawaii as to the bill's implementation. Affordable college tuition is an investment in our state's future that fosters social mobility and drives economic growth.

Securing the resident tuition fee for Hawaii high school graduates will increase accessibility for students who are deterred from seeking an undergraduate degree due to perceived high costs and will provide a competitive choice for students considering out of state options.

The department is supportive of any effort to smooth the pathway for our students to continue their education as well as provide opportunities to learn and enter the workforce in Hawaii. Thank you.

Debora Halbert.

Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committees, Vice President of Academic Strategy, Debora Halbert. We stand on our written testimony. And we have Associate Vice President Farrah-Marie Gomes,on Zoom for any questions regarding the technicalities of the bill. Thank you.

Okay, great. We have Ronald Sturges. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Anyone on Zoom wishing. If not questions, members? I do have questions for University. What's the current process? Now, I thought that if you are in high school and that you get in your resident, that you get the resident tuition. Am I wrong?

Yes. This is more about those who've moved out of state. And if AVP Gomes is online, she can provide a little more detail about why we were asking for this and some of the issues that we've encountered with citizens.

Okay, well, before I get to her. So you're saying that say somebody in their sophomore year moves to the mainland and then as long as it's within four years, they come back, they would still be considered a resident and therefore they would be able to get the resident tuition.

That's the idea. And I know that over the years we've tried different numbers of years for this particular bill. So four gives us. We were thinking a more reasonable number of years.

I thought we passed one that said two years?

I think we didn't. It also didn't make it to the final process.

What was I going to ask? So, when these students come back in, can't you folks do it on your own? Do you need a bill, a law?

Well, that is, I mean, depending on how this plays out, we may look at trying to revise the admitted, the HAR, and seeing if there's a way we can reinterpret some of the language there. AVP Gomes, would you like to elaborate on that?

Sure. The way the HAR is currently written, it does require 12 months of physical presence. So as this bill is written, there is an or statement for item number three.

So it does allow the student who may have moved out of state to re enter and prior to the 12 months of physical residency be able to qualify for the resident tuition rate.

Are you not able to do that now without a bill? I thought UH, could waive and do whatever they wanted with their, with their tuition and acceptances.

Yeah. For admissions we do follow the HAR and that is not allowable as it's currently written.

I see. What about waivers? You have to follow something for waivers when you give tuition. I mean, when you give scholarships or waivers to out of state to pay in state. Is that all part of.

Yes. So tuition waivers are written into policy. And so we would need to go through the process of adding that into an executive policy and we would need to be careful because that exemption would still need to comply with the HAR.

Yeah. So your Board of Regents could change, could change a policy or, or adopt additional policy. Right? Within the guidelines.

The Board of Regents can pass a policy, but it cannot be contradictory to the HAR.

Right. And so have you folks embarked on that at all? Before coming to us with the bill?

We have not embarked on that. The, what we are looking into if we don't get the bill is to go back and revise the HAR as the alternative. Because even a policy at the board level wouldn't allow us to execute the change.

Okay, so this measure came, has come before us a couple years now. Right? And in a couple years you guys haven't gone in to see if you can amend the HAR?

Part of the, part of my understanding for that is the HAR was just recently updated and like, within the last two, two years. And we were not planning to go in to make those adjustments, but if that is necessary, we'll go in sooner rather than later.

Okay. Well, I hope you folks would be proactive in looking at this, especially since this is not a new item. This item has been, I think this is the third year going on that you're waiting and waiting for this bill. If it doesn't pass, you're that many years behind.

So I would imagine that this would be on the top of your list, that you would be pursuing that in addition to if that didn't work, then you'd come in. But again, you know, it's like putting the horse before the cart. Cart before the horse. Okay, members, any other questions? If not, thank you.

Okay, we are moving on to Senate Bill, Senate Bill—that was 1490, correct? Yeah, we're on 1559. No, 1490? Okay. Just that the same people testified, I guess. Okay. Okay. We are on 1490. You're right. Vice Chair, thank you. Deborah Halbert. This is on the, relating to, UH relief funding.

Good afternoon, again. Deborah Halbert, Vice President, Academic Strategy. We stand on our written testimony. This is something that emerged to—came to our attention during the Maui Wildfires last year. So, hopefully we can remedy the situation. Associate Vice President Gomes is also in line to discuss the technical details.

Thank you. Ronald Sturges also in support. Don't go away. We're going to questions. Any Members with questions? No? Okay, so tuition funds now, where do they go to? Do they go to UH 900, when you collect tuition?

The tuition funds, I think so.

It goes to—okay. So, any lapse of funds, as this Bill says, that in fact, if you don't use the entire amount, it goes back into the tuition fund. But it says it goes back to, UH 900 on Page 5 of the Bill, Line 16.

"The end of each fiscal year, the monies in the University of Hawaii tuition and fee special fund for each campus shall lapse into the credit of program identification number UH 900."

I'm looking at the wrong one, I'm sorry.

So, we're technically creating a Special Fund, right, for this, for this appropriation?

I believe that—well, I'll defer to AVP Gomes on the Special Fund. But the intent is to be able to provide students who are caught in the kinds of problems that we saw with the Maui Wildfire, from having to return their financial aid, their federal financial aid, because of the ways in which the rules exist.

But if we can create this kind of, under the auspices of a specific emergency, as stated by the Governor, then we can provide additional funding to them without them losing their federal funds.

So, the way I read the Bill is that the Board of Regents would be able to create this Fund and move money—move your money. Current monies, right? Is it current monies or, yeah, you would able to—University of Hawaii would be able to move monies into this Fund specifically for an emergency, right? To help the students, right?

Then, it says that those funds then will lapse to the credit of 900. And that's why I'm wondering, does the money originally come out of 900 and that's why it lapsed back into 900 or does it come out of another fund? Thank you.

Since this is the original text of the Bill, this wasn't our recommended changes.

Am I reading the Bill correctly?

So, this, we're on Senate Bill 1490, right? So, the concept of this Bill is not to—for the Legislature to appropriate monies into this Fund. It is also not for the University to put money into the Fund. But the Bill does allow for the creation or the authority by the Board of Regents to set aside and identify three—up to $3 million. Yeah.

Okay. So, the money doesn't really—because when it says lapsed on that page, it kind of threw me off, on Page 5, Line 16.

Yeah. So, the concept of this approach is not in appropriated general funds. This is funds of the University that would be made available as funds from the University currently are made available for student support. Financial aid.

But you can do that now, right?

So, we could, we could already do this. This statute is actually—or this Bill is actually necessary out of advice from U.S. Department of Education. Prior, yeah, prior to November. But it stemmed out of the activity from the Maui Wildfires when the University made funds available to certain students.

But you did it without this kind of Bill?

Right, but the U.S. Department of Education asked—it would have, if we had a state statute that would authorize the University to do this, that aid that the University could provide would not count against the student for federal financial aid purposes. So, this is kind of more of a bureaucratic approach, requirement, for the step—for the creation of the step.

Okay. If there's any questions. Thank you for that explanation. Okay, Moving on to 1559. Okay. This is relating to dune restoration. Appropriates funds to the University Hawaii Sea Grant College program for dune restoration at Hanakao Beach Park. And testifying is Michael Keane for DLNR.

Good afternoon, Chair. Committee Members, Michael Kane, on behalf of DLNR, we stand in support of this project. The Developers did consult with us to see if it was a feasible idea and we believe it is. And I am here for questions if you have any.

Thank you. Tara Owens on Zoom. Tara, are you on Zoom?

He's not present on Zoom chair. He had a hard time.

Okay. Kai Nishiki for Maui Nui Resiliency Hui in person here. That's all that I have in person. We do have about 20 other people who have testified in support of this measure. Anyone here wishing to testify that I didn't call your name? Anyone on Zoom waiting to be called? Okay.

If not Members questions, I'm not sure who to ask the question of. So who gave the projected cost of $500,000 for restoration?

Fiona, why don't you come on.

So this is not our project. So this is what I know. Please identify yourself. I'm sorry. Michael Caine again, Department of Land and Natural Resources. I believe that the project proponent, Kai Nashiki, approached Senator McKelvey to discuss the project parameters. So I don't know how they came up with this exact number.

I assume it's based upon other projects that we've invested in, but it's an assumption.

And. And so the state is in support of someone else doing this restoration? Correct. And who supervises? They just do it on their own.

I wish the project proponents were here. So do I, but I know that Tara Owens with Sea Grant did not receive the link and I was about to text Kainoshiki, so I don't know. I'm surprised.

Okay. It's not.

I'm sorry, I don't know much.

Let me just ask. According to the testimony provided, it says a more. More fiscally efficient approach might be appropriate to appropriate the funds directly to the county and allow them to seek the expert advice from Sea Grant and other programs needed. That's your guys comment, Right.

So that's how I run my projects. It's much easier for me to give money directly to state parks out of our beach restoration Fund. And then Sea Grant is available as consultants and we have Sea Grant on our staff. So that was a comment I would pose.

Okay. To the applicants. Okay, thank you. And then uh, we have someone from uh, Calbert. So according to the comments made by uh, system, it says while Hawaii Sea Grant supports this measure, appreciates the opportunity for funding, that we would like to ensure that this effort is aligned with the priorities of Department of Parks and Recreation.

Additionally, a multi year funding structure is important to enable acquisitions. So are you saying that the city. Then the money should go to the city and to Parks of Recreation and then utilize the University of Hawaii. Similar to what DLNR say?

I think so. I'm not the testifier, but I think what the University would desire is we think the program is important so where the funding actually ends up is not as critical, but then to make sure that it program itself can be funded. And if it's directly funded to the University, we know it would do it.

But if it's funded through the counties, eventually they'll all be working with the University.

Yeah, because if we Fund the University then you first have to go out and get the county. Right.

Because SEA grant can, depending on how the state would appropriate monies through to the grant to the county process, you can eventually have that money come back over to the through the University.

Okay, so what's the easiest way to get this project funded to the right people instead of going from agency to agency which probably delays the project. Your thoughts?

Well, I'm going to be biased that the funds go directly to the University and we can figure out how to distribute to the other.

And how long would that take you to do?

Well, we do do it for other programs and other grants that originate out of the University so it can be done within the fiscal year. We also do have other grants that we are. We get monies from other jurisdiction, other counties and those can be faster or can be longer. It can be done.

I mean we have a process that gets this done.

Really doesn't answer my question. I mean I'm trying to decide do we give it to you guys or directly to county or whatever, who can do it faster.

Yeah, I don't know what the county processes are on disregards, but it's the county's county's land.

Right. It's the county's park. Yeah.

So sorry, There's a way. Sorry. Buckle Kane, Department of Land and Natural Resources. Both Terra and Kai Nashiki are available. If they can get the zoom link. They're texting me that they didn't receive it.

Well, is there a way? Yeah, but we have, we have a time limit. Okay.

We're gonna have to move on. Sorry. Thank you.

But yeah, they can send us, send us anything in writing. And this measure has to move on to another Committee. We can make that amendments. Okay, thank you. Okay, anybody else? Any other questions, Members? If not, let's move on to Senate Bill 1585, and this is relating to workforce development.

Establish and implements evidence based performance metrics for the P-20 partnerships for education to allow better evidence based assessments of the P-20 partnerships for education advisory council's workforce and pathway development programs. Requires reports to the Legislature. And we have Keith Hayashi testifying for DOE.

Aloha again, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kidani, and Members of the Committee. Teri Ushijima, Assistant Superintendent from the Office of Curriculum Instructional Design, testifying on behalf of the Department. The Department stands on its written testimony, which provides comments on this measure. Our comments are related to the federal Perkins funding that we received from P-20 and in the hopes that this bill would not affect any of that funding. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Okay, I didn't see anything in the bill that refers to your funding. Next we have Brenna Hashimoto from the Department of Human Resources Development. Not here. Any relations? James Tokioka of DBEDT.

Aloha kākou. Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kidani, Members of the Committee. My name is Thomas Chalk. I'm with the Department of Business, Economic Development, and Tourism. On behalf of Director Tokioka, DBEDT stands on his testimony as submitted with comments, and I'm available for questions.

Okay, thank you. Della Teraoka, University of Hawaii. Or Denise.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, I'm Della Teraoka, Interim Vice President for the Community Colleges. I didn't know I was going to speak on my testimony, but I did submit written testimony with comments.

Always be prepared.

Yes, thank you.

Okay. Candace Park.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Deputy Attorney General Candace Park. We recommend identifying the bill as a law of statewide concern. We also have some concerns with the appropriation. The purpose indicated in the bill does not seem to match the purpose of the bill. And we are also concerned as to the federal funds. We, the federal funds aren't identified, so we cannot tell whether this bill would be consistent with whatever funds the bill intends on using. Thank you.

Okay. Stephen Schatz.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Stephen Schatz, Executive Director of Hawaii P-20 Partnerships for Education. I stand on our written testimony offering comments, and happy to answer any questions you may have.

Okay. Don't go anywhere. That's all that I have in person, people wanting to testify. Anybody here wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom? If not, Members, questions? I guess for you, the concern about the funding and that was raised by the AG. You want to comment on that?

So the fund, I think the funding that's being referred to in this bill is the federal Perkins allocation that we as the State Office of Career and Technical Education receive. And that money is essentially split between the University of Hawaii Community College System and the Department of Education and their high schools. 15% remains in reserve at our office, but essentially it ends up getting split across those two entities.

Okay. So that's why the DOE testified that they don't want their portion of the monies taken for this or reduced from them?

It definitely, the money that is being, I think that the money that is being alluded to in this bill is the federal Perkins grant that we, that we receive, which is around $7 million a year.

But up to 7 million, you said it's split between UH and DOE.

So I guess DOE is concerned that their 50% would go down.

Yes.

I don't want to speak for their concerns in particular. I think one of the things that we've been discussing with DOE and UH is using some of that funding a little bit differently than we have in the, in the past, and doing some of what we think is intended in this bill, which is aligning a little bit better with workforce needs.

So instead of just formulating out all the money, getting a chunk of it, and, you know, doing grants, which would require partnerships between community colleges and high schools who want to work on a pathway that's an area of need, either regionally or for the state. So that's a conversation that we've been having as a team, as we were right in the midst of our creating a new Perkins plan for the state, a new CTE plan for the state.

So you don't have objections to the AG about clarifying the purpose of the appropriation and then also being more specific as to the federal funds?

Sorry, sorry. I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question?

So the Office of Attorney General raised concerns regarding the, to clarify the purpose of the appropriations because apparently... You want to come forward, Candace? So I don't have to say what you said and get it wrong.

So in the bill, the purpose of the fund is for the Career and Technical Education Program, but that program is not mentioned anywhere in the previous language of the bill. So... And we don't know that much about the UH programs, but it, it just not. It's not clear to us what the funds are for.

But these are federal funds, and federal funds usually come with restrictions already. We're not sure what federal funds this bill is talking about. Correct. And so we don't know whether these federal funds could be used for whatever purposes this bill is proposing.

I'm trying not to be a lawyer here, but that makes sense to me. When we read the bill, there was, one of the first questions would be, do the conditions that are laid out in this bill align with the federal Perkins Act. I think the response from us at P-20 and maybe from DOE and UH might be a little, a little more positive or less lukewarm if there were a General Fund appropriation to say... First time I've asked.

Okay. Okay. Members, any other questions? Yeah, they did. And they support, but DOE doesn't want their funding to be reduced. We're running out of time, guys, so let's go.

So I'm not sure how to change the bill to address your concerns. Did you guys have specific amendments?

Well, we're also not clear on what the consequences would be if this were adopted. And so we're here to advocate for our students in our schools so that they continue to benefit from what this, the funding is intended to do. So the funding goes to the school programs and the schools itself.

The DOE, we get about 2.9 million each year. It kind of varies, but around that much. And our schools, the larger schools, they might get about 140,000-ish, but our smaller schools get about, our smallest school gets about 7,500 from the Perkins. So they do a lot to make this money stretch, and it's very related to workforce development, and our schools count on it a lot.

So we will have our attorneys look at this and come up with the languages that we need to clarify this. And as we move on. Okay, thank you. If there are no other questions, Members, I'd like to move on to Senate Bill 502. I'm sorry, 1502.

Appropriate funds for the establishment of faculty positions, student programs and facilities at the Colleges of Social Sciences, University of Waimanoa, University of West Oahu for workforce development in defense sector of the state's economy. With that Hawaii Military Affairs Council and support. Okay. Denise Conan. Frank Kudo in person. Who's coming up? All three of you or with one.

Are they coming up? No. Okay, Denise, we'll proceed.

Aloha Chair Kim and Vice Chair Kidani and Members of the Senate here. We are coming before you to ask for support for faculty and operating funds for the College of Social Sciences to. Advance a program that has been in. A pilot phase to support workforce development in intelligence studies in the Asia Pacific.

We stand on our written testimony. We are also here with UH West Oahu and happy to answer any questions.

Okay, any from West Oahu want to come up, please identify yourselves.

Aloha Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kidani, and Members of the Committee. My name is Harold Barko. I'm the Vice Chancellor for Academic affairs at the University of Hawaii, West Oahu. And I'm joined here by Dr. Frank Kudo, our Business Cyber Division Chair.

And we stand on our joint testimony in support of SB 1502 and are available to answer any questions you might have. Mahalo.

Thank you. Mr. Kudo, did you want to add to that? No. Okay.

Okay. We might have to ask you a question when you come back. Christian Fern in support here. Sherry Manor in support for the Chamber of Commerce.

Good afternoon. Chair Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Chamber of commerce in support. Here for any questions.

Okay, thank you. Mark Perrielo in support on Zoom. Anybody on Zoom? No, Annabelle Doherty.

I was here. Sorry.

Oh, okay. You want to proceed? Annabelle?

All right. There we go. There we are. Aloha Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kidani, and honorable Members of the Committee, thank you for this opportunity to provide testimony in support of SB 1502. We stand by our written testimony as submitted on this matter.

As you know, Kauai plays a unique and significant role in the state's defense sector, primarily through the Pacific Missile Range Facility, the world's largest instrumented multi environment range. PRMRF is a major economic driver for the island, providing direct military and civilian employment and supporting local businesses.

SB 1502 takes meaningful steps towards preparing Hawaii's workforce for careers in high demand sectors. We appreciate the legislators Legislature's leadership in advancing this initiative, and it's important to ensure that residents across the state, including those on Kauai and other neighbor islands, have equitable access to these new opportunities.

Strengthening online learning options and expanding outreach to neighbor island high schools and Kauai Community College will help ensure a statewide talent pipeline that supports local job growth. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Annabelle.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Annabel Doherty. I'm a current undergraduate student at UH Manoa, asking for your support for SB 1502 to strengthen programs that provide Hawaii students critical access to participate in local opportunities and industries.

I decided to study at UH Manoa because the school's unique strategic location in the Pacific region.

A technical program such as the one provided for by SB 1502, which equips students to use modern technologies and respond to emerging issues, would make UH a much more competitive option for students like myself hoping to understand security in the Asia Pacific Region.

My experiences participating in the current programs offered through the College of Social Sciences have provided direct experience and trainings to students, greatly increasing myself and my peers confidence and competency to apply to local industries and work in Hawaii after graduation.

Supporting these programs is an investment in local students who are eager to contribute towards national security initiatives and future leaders informed by the community of responsibility, care and Stewardship fostering the, uh, system. I. I ask for your consideration of SB 1502. Thank you for your time.

Thank you for being speaking to your time.

Stephen Sasaki.

Welcome.

Hi. Chair, Vice Chair, members, Stephen Sasaki. I represent industry in the Department of Defense. I just want to stand by my testimony. And again, I want to emphasize that our workload in the next five years, $9 billion in construction. We need all these people coming out to support our industry.

I'm retired now, so I'm speaking on behalf of my own small business, the smallest of small businesses. I do want to share some of the industries or the technologies we're supporting. Advanced materials, space technology, AI, hypersonics, directed energy, integrated sensing and 5G plus up in the X.

And again, we supported 20,000 DOD employees averaging of about $148,000 in pay, as well as entry level engineers at 61,000. Average pay for after three years, about 108,000. And again, top level pay, 120 to 100, 214,000.

Sorry, your time is up.

And again, thank you for your support on this.

Thank you very much, Stephen. We have Jairus Victor Grove. Or is it Jairus?

Jairus. Thank you. Senators Kim and Kidani and the rest of the Senators. My name is Jairus Grove. I'm a professor in the College of Social Sciences and I'm the human face of the Intelligence program. I work with the students broadly. I've submitted written testimony which I stand on.

But I'd also want to add that in addition to the advantages I think it has for the Hawaii economy, it's really about Hawaii residents. These jobs are coming to Hawaii no matter what. We are going to be the tip of the spear for US-Chinese competition for likely the next hundred years.

Whether or not that's a competition of cooperation or a competition of conflict is still yet to be seen. But whether or not the leaders and analysts are made up of Hawaii residents is something that we can actually do something about and make sure that our residents are the ones who are leaders in these rooms.

These are life changing experiences for our students. They come from all over the state at the high school level. We work with them at the university level and also at the graduate level.

And we make sure that they can get the clearances that they need to compete for jobs that mean they can stay home and still have a direct impact on international policy. Thank you.

Thank you for your testimony. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Anyone on Zoom? If not, we are open for questions. Members questions? I guess, UH. Yeah, start with Manoa. So you're asking for two full time positions in international economics trade and one full time equivalent professor practice in intelligence studies.

So two positions for, or three positions for Manoa and then one and a half for West Oahu. Is that correct?

There's four and a half positions for.

Yeah, four and a half. Right. Three for Manoa, for West Oahu. So that's total of four and a half. So do you have any vacancies in these areas that you're asking for in.

The College of Social Sciences? We have very few vacancies. We've had an increase in growth in enrollments in the college and at the same time our resources have not expanded. And so for us at the college level, we have been trying, building this program in part by redirecting our faculty talent.

You see Jairus Grove here, he's a faculty member. As well as with a support from the Chamber of Commerce through a federal pass through. And so that has given temporary support.

But the question is, do you have vacant positions?

Currently not in the College of Social Sciences.

So not any of these positions.

Correct.

Because I know there's a lot of positions that they need.

That would be above my level.

Okay, how about for West Oahu? Can you come up, West Oahu? Do you have any vacancies.

For this program? There are five positions, faculty positions. Two are currently searched because they left, but there is no one, these 2.5 positions, one is for the center, the coordination center and the other one is for the lab.

But you have two vacancies.

They are on the way to search.

What do you mean on the way to search?

That means they are posted and as full time faculty who mostly do the teaching as well as the research.

How long have these positions been vacant?

I think just last summer. So they're in the regular. You start the search again. The person left last summer and then we start again the search and usually they're filled within one academic year.

So from me looking at the vacancies, I understand that it's 18 months. These two positions have been vacant for 18 months.

One was just last spring. Right.

One is 18 months. Matt Chapman left August of 2023 and Boris was an instructor level. His contract wasn't renewed in October or November of 23. So we haven't replaced them.

Yeah, so they're over a year. What's taking so long to replace?

So usually it takes about an academic year, but in cases when a permanent person like I think Chapman was leading, that was before I came on board, but was leading the this unit. You really look at the job description and see should there anything be changed? Did the profile change over time?

Because this is a rapidly growing program.

Did you get approval for these positions already?

Yes.

When was it approved?

You mean for the.

For the two vacant positions for you to go out and.

They're already posted. Yes.

Okay, when did you post it?

I can get you that information.

Do you know when it was posted?

I don't know.

Okay. I'm just concerned that, you know, you guys come in for these positions and yeah, it might be warranted, but then you have these vacant positions and then you drag your feet in filling them and then you come in for new positions.

So, you know, I have a fill date on all of these positions that's going to be filled this year and then next year come the same position is going to be filled again. It was never filled.

So I'm sure we asked about this last year, then we're told it was going to be filled, but yet I sit here today and you're just telling me now it's posted. So what guarantees we have that you're going to fill this position before we give you new positions?

I think this is a very valid point. Sometimes positions are not that easy to fill, you know, in that area. But I understand. Yes.

But you're asking for one and a half more, that's the same area that you cannot fill the other two.

This one, it's the same area. Yes, absolutely. They're different in profile. These are 0.5 FTE positions that coordinating that center and the other one, the research lab. So they're not the typical professor position in that way.

I understand. But I would like to urge you that.

Absolutely.

You have only five positions and you have two that's been vacant for 18 months or over a year and it's not been filled and you come in for new positions. So want to hold you accountable for these things. Okay?

Understood.

Members, any other questions? If not. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, we are moving on to Senate Bill 1624, relating to the University of Hawaii Board of Regents to extend funds appropriated to renew, improve, or modernize existing universities facilities on the for only purposes and not for current or ongoing anticipated capital improvement projects. Required reports to the Legislature.

So basically, this is the RIM, RIM budget that we give a lump sum to the University of Hawaii that have been used for other things other than just RIM. So, testifying on 1624, Jan Gouveia. Am I 1604? No. I'm sorry. Did I jump ahead? Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah. Why don't we stay on 1624? Sorry, these numbers are too close together.

Good afternoon. Jan Gouveia on behalf of the University of Hawaii. We stand on our written testimony, which offers comments.

Okay. And Candace Park. Stay there, Jan. We're gonna have questions for you.

Good afternoon. The Department has the same recommendation to identify the bill as a law of statewide concern. Thank you.

Okay, so Members, questions from Ms. Gouveia? So this has come up in Ways and Means, the concern about coming in for a lump sum for RIM, yet RIM was used for Ching Field. RIM has been used to the overfunding for Sinclair. And I'm not sure. You were supposed to get us a list of what else RIM has been used for. That was asked.

Okay. I apologize if we didn't get that to you. I have seen the list. Yes. So, you know, maybe to even just take one example, to walk through how the University, one example of how the University utilizes RIM funding. So for example, the Student Success Center, that was, you know, a CIP line item project.

So from a project standpoint, that's been approved and appropriated by the Legislature. It's also been authorized as a, as a authorized project, the Board of Regents. So when we go out to bid, and if there is insufficient funding just to fund the minimum lowest bid, then we, as one example, we'll utilize RIM funding because in the Student Success Center case, there was quite a bit of deferred maintenance in the building. It was a renovation. It wasn't a, like a brand new construction.

So we did deal with deferred maintenance, we did deal with modernization. It just all got included into one project. And generally speaking, I mean, we, it's, it was a previously approved, recognized, and authorized project, so we didn't see it as being disingenuous on any front

What about Ching Field?

There were portions of, I don't know what the extent of the funding for Ching Field was, but there were... That was, to the extent it was a recognized project by the Board of Regents, we used it for that.

I don't think we're saying that's recognized by the Board of Regents. When you come in for RIM, that is to take care of a lot of the backlog of R&M, right?

As well as emergency situations.

Emergency situation. But at the same time, we get this lump sum. We give you the lump sum to give you that ability to use it. And then you come in for CIP projects, specific projects, and you give us an amount and we award that. And then, and then you guys go over and then you just dip into RIM and then come back and say, oh, you know, we have this backlog again and we have...

Because all of the monies that we give you have been, not all, but a portion of the monies have been diverted to areas that we as the Legislature feel that, you know, it should be for RIM. So I don't know why you would have a problem with this. Because if you want continue lump sum, because if you don't want it, then maybe we should, on RIM, give a specific project you're going to work on and then we'll give you the money for that.

Well, I think the way... Well, I do think that the intent of RIM is to bring that flexibility. It is understanding and recognizing that when we do identify a list of prioritized projects that we, that's our best guess of what the funding can cover. And we, I think we've almost never.

We've never gotten fully funded on any of our CIP requests. And so as a result, that type of flexibility does allow the University and the Board to proceed with projects that, you know, are a priority. And sometimes they pop up. Like in the case of the Ching Field situation, that was an emergency situation.

Was there a declaration of emergency made?

Well, it was, it was to... Not that, like a, not like a procurement emergency, but, or like a natural disaster emergency. But for the program, I think there was a decision made that there needed to be a place where they can compete. And so we have, you know, the University was stuck with a situation that it really had no contribution in getting to that point. Forces outside of its control landed the University in a pretty dire situation. So that is, it is an unusual and limited circumstance, and we do appreciate the Legislature's recognition that the flexibility does allow us to proceed with maximizing the use of all the funding in the prioritized areas.

So how, what's the percentage of time that you folks have come in with CIP projects that the money you were pretty much on budget?

Meaning for the estimate?

Yeah, the money that we appropriate. Okay, okay, let me finish that. Yeah. Because I mean, there's a lot of projects that you folks, we give you the amount you ask for and it runs over. You have cost overruns. You have change orders. You have all of that. Right. I mean, and so it seems like. And I don't know when you go under where that money goes. Does it go into RIM if the project goes under?

No, I don't... We... It would be used as fully... We can only use it for the project. Once it's encumbered for the project or if it's appropriated specifically for that project, we can't use it for any other purpose. So in terms of when, I can't think of an instance where any line item appropriation stayed the entire length and time of the project where it ended, it ended below the original appropriated amount. I can research that.

I think one example was the ACM facility that, you know, I think the Legislature authorized back in what, 2016, 2017. And I think the amount that was appropriated was less than was originally requested. And so they had to build the building a little smaller, but they did everything possible to stay within budget and on time.

And so perhaps the remedy for this type of problem is to ask the University to report, you know, annually as to areas in which, you know, the appropriations may not have been sufficient to cover the cost of a project over time and then just identify those and where you have used RIM types of appropriations. Would that be something that universities could do?

Yes, absolutely. Thank you.

If you're going to do that, I think that you should also report on reasons. Was it the universities delay of the project or, you know, was it the contractor delay, project manager. That would help us too.

Yeah, understood.

Okay. Any other questions? If not, thank you. We're going to move back to Senate Bill 1604 relating to the University of Hawaii, Kauai Community College workforce housing. Leinaʻala Ley in support. Keith Hayashi for the DOE. Della Teraoka. And we have 10 minutes. So you're given 15 minutes leeway. So.

Aloha chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. I'm Della Taraoka, interim Vice President for the UH community colleges and we stand on our testimony. And I also have Chancellor Margaret Sanchez from Kauai Community College and my associate Vice President Denise Yoshimori-Yamamoto if you have any questions.

Okay, thank you. Christian Fern? Not here. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? None. Questions? I just had a really quick question. So this is to renew and improve modernize existing University of Hawaii facilities. Those that are on Kauai, correct?

I believe it's to build housing.

Sorry... Workforce housing. Okay, sorry, I was looking at 1624. Okay, thank you. No questions. No other questions? We will move on to 1530, Senate Bill 1530, relating to the University of Hawaii performance based budget. And we haveLuis Salaveria, Kalbert Young.

Testimony from the University. We stand on our testimony, but we have provided a number of areas of issues and concerns and so Vice President Halbert and myself are available for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. We have anyone else wishing to justify this measure? Anybody on Zoom? Not on Zoom. Any questions, Members?

Are these new projects are just adding to current projects?

No, this is on the performance based budget. Remember we gave them 6 million. Currently we give you $6 million. And they have a performance measures for each of the different campuses, and if they meet those requirements, then they get a percentage of that money. If they don't meet it, then it was to encourage to meet it. But the money doesn't come back to the state. It goes into the Systems Fund. Right? Systems. Goes to UH Systems.

Whatever is, there's 6 million that's identified in the budget annually from within the base that's specified as performance funding. All campuses have academic programmatic performance targets. If they hit the targets, then they earn the portion of the 6 million. For whatever amount they don't earn, the statute, actually the monies have to be used to help broad student success throughout the system. So it's a system level. But all of this funding, performance funding, is actually in UH system program ID UH 900. So that is system.

So here's the question. If that money is there for performance is go across, then why haven't you used those funds to give those positions to Hilo and to West Oahu for their retention and their enrollment?

Yeah. So when the concept of performance funding was originally established in the budget, it was for specific metrics. So those metrics are the ones that are applied to the, to the campus.

But they don't need it, so the money goes to system. But you just said that you folks use it to help the success across the board. So isn't that helping the success?

So the funds that get distributed at system have actually been used in more general and broad ways rather than for specific academic programming.

Okay, but that was intended to help on some of those metrics. So you know, this is going to come back to us or you're going to use it for hopefully what it intended to help instead of us giving them more funding. Okay. Any other questions? If not, thank you. Our final measure is Senate Bill 1487.

And Kalbert, you're on this one as well.

Thank you. So we can stand on our testimony in support. This measure actually is to authorize the University to issue revenue bonds. This authorization is required by statute. There are no projects of the University that have yet been identified as candidates for revenue bonds. However, there are projects that are potentially on the horizon. So in future years, and at that time the Legislature would have to do this authorization anyway. So this bill is preemptive to create the authorization up front.

And we had this bill last year and you told us the same thing, you didn't have any projects on the horizon. And so again, wouldn't it be more pertinent for you to come in when you get it? Because you have to have those projects approved by the Board of Regents as well, right?

Yeah. So I think what's different this year is these projects that are on the horizon, they are on the horizon now. That's what I'm saying. So they are moving closer in time.

Then what are they? You want us to grant this to you, what are they?

So there's a research facility of repurposing an existing facility for research on the Manoa campus. Anywhere from 30-50 million dollars. There's the student housing issue, which a plan for addressing the broader student housing at UH Manoa, as well as one specific project at UH Manoa Hale Noelani. Those are in the works of identifying the potential funding stack. Revenue bonds could be part of the solution. Then there's also projects on other campuses, such as at West Oahu for student housing opportunities.

Those are all far away. I mean, that's not like in the next year or so. Right? The only project, how long, the research, is that the only one that's really ready to go?

I actually don't know if it's ready to go, but I would... For all of those, I think that there would be at least be a plan within the next 12 months for student housing if the funding can be identified. It's a big, it is a very big ticket item. That's the reason why, again, I'm asking for the preemptive.

That's the reason why we want to know before we grant you, we grant you a blanket $800 million.

Chair, It's not a blanket because the other component that is required of the Legislature is the actual appropriation of the project via revenue bonds. So at that time the specific project will have to be specifically known and identified.

Then you can ask us for the bond, right? Authorization.

Yeah, but we will have to do it at that time anyway. So I'm bringing this because you can get it done earlier. Right. It also helps with the planning process because these projects, when they are big ticket items, funding stack is critical to identifying how these projects can get done.

Okay, thank you. Members, any other questions? If not. Okay, that was our last item. We will go into decision making. Okay. We do have forum. So, members, for Senate Bill 1488 relating to the Hawaii Conference Center Revolving Fund for the University of Hawaii.

Recommendation is to have an SD1 technical and non substantive amendments and we will defect the effective date to July 31, 2050. I believe there is no funding in this measure. So any discussion, members? Any objections? So we will take the vote. Senator Kidani

[ROLL CALL]

Thank you. On Senate Bill 636 relating to University of Hawaii at Hilo, appropriates funds for one retention coordinator position, one internship coordinator position, student enrollment. The recommendation is to do an SD1. We will do technical, non substantive amendments.

We will blank out the appropriation amount, will defect the date, and we will also recommend in here that the monies that is provided that you are able to retain the retention monies, that those positions and amounts should come out of that fund.

If the bill passed to make the retention to go back to the legislature and the general fund, then we have to revisit this again. Any questions? Any discussion hearing None. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

Thank you. Senate Bill 1489 relating to University of Hawaii resident tuition fees. Recommendation is to do an SD1 with technical and non substantive amendments.

And I think I want to put in the committee report that the University will try to exhaust doing it on their own at this point because there's a chance that this may not pass through. So. Any discussion, members? any? No discussion. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CAL]

Thank you. For Senate Bill 1490, this is the University of Hawaii relief funding. Recommendation is to make technical, non substantive amendments in an SD1. And I believe that's all the amendments. There's no discussion. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

I want to go back to Senate Bill 1489 to put in a defective date. Sorry, I forgot to put that in there. Doesn't change the vote. Thank you. Okay. Senate Bill 1559, relating to the restoration for the dunes.

Doing the restoration. Recommendation is to blank out the appropriations, defect the date to July 31, 2050 and to appropriate funds.

Well, we'll put in the committee report too that perhaps it's more appropriate to put the funds directly to the county and that we need to make it clear what the intent is for this and to ensure that priorities align with the Department of Parks and Recreation.

So we'll put all that in the committee report and this matter goes to WAM. So hopefully we can talk with the author of the measure from Maui and see what the true intent is meant to be. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

Okay. Senate Bill 1585. This is relating to the workforce development. The P20 partnership recommendation is an SD1. We will blank out the appropriation. We'll defect the date to July 31, 2050.

We will put in the committee report concerns about the funding for the DOE and put in law of statewide concern that the AG recommended, also to clarify and make clear the purpose of the funds and the specific federal funds which this appropriation is being made for.

So we will make those amendments in the Bill and in the Committee report. Any discussion members? Hearing none. Chair votes aye. Oh, one more, sorry. One more amendment. It says 20 days before, I'm recommending we do a 30 day, the the report is due 30 days before the legislature.

We are inundated with so many reports in 20 days. I think this will give, give us an opportunity to look at these reports without having a whole slew of reports. Any discussion? None. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

Senate Bill 1502 appropriates fund for the establishment of faculty position students at the College of Social Science, University of Hawaii Manoa and also at the West Oahu.

Recommendation is to do an SD1, blanking out the appropriations, defecting the date to July 31, 2050 and to put into the community court concerns about the filling of the vacant positions. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

Thank you. Senate Bill 1604 relating to University of Hawaii funds for the development of faculty staff teacher housing at Kauai Community College. Recommendation is to blank out the appropriation and defect the date to July 31, 2050. Any discussion? Hearing none. The Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

Okay. Recommendation for Senate Bill 1624 that requires the Board of Regents to expense, expend funds. This is for the RIM projects. Recommendation is to defect the date to July 31, 2050, to have the report due 30 days before the due date. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

Okay, thank you. On Senate Bill 1530, this is the performance, right? Performance based bill. Recommendation is to pass as is. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

Senate Bill 1487 relating to the University of Hawaii revenue bonds. My tendency is to not pass this measure. However, if they can show us by the time it gets to WAM a specific project that is ready to go, we'll blank out that amount and allow perhaps that one or two projects we could finance that with the bonds.

So I don't want it to say that they had a project, but I don't think a blanket amount of $800 million should be proceed at this time. So with that, recommendation is to defect the date to July 31, 2050 and make any technical amendments necessary. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes aye.

[ROLL CALL]

Thank you. And that is the end of our agenda. So.