House Standing Committee on Finance

Good morning. We're going to convene the Committee on Finance for our continue our informational briefings. Today we have the pleasure of having the Department of Land and Natural Resources welcome.

Aloha Mai Kakou. Aloha. Chair Yamashita and Vice Chair Takanoichi. Excuse me. And Members of the House Finance Committee. My name is Dawn Chang. I am Chair of the Board of Land and Natural Resources and Chair of the Commission of Water Resource Management.

I'd like to also introduce my First Deputy Ryan Kanakaole and First Deputy Kira Kahahane of the Water Commission. Also seated behind me is Cynthia Gomez, DLNR's administrative services officer and Dina Lau, Acting Chief Engineer who handles our cip. So I am going to probably defer to them as well as staff on some questions.

Seated behind me are the administrators for the DLNR. And I would like to introduce them in the order of their LNR numbers. First, LNR 101, Durazo Tsuji, land Division. If you could stand. Thank you. Durazo, LNR 101. Michael Kane, Office of Conservation and Coastal Lands, LNR 102, Legacy Land Conservation Program.

David Penn, LNR 111 Hannah Domingo, Bureau of Conveyances, Eleanor's 141 and 810 Deana Lau with Engineering, LNR 401 Brian Nielsen, Division of Aquatic Resources. Eleanor's 172402407 and 804. David Smith with the Division of Forestry and Wildlife, LNR 404.

Kira Kahani of the Water Commission on resource management, LNR 405 Jason Radula, Division of Conservation and Resource Enforcement, LNR 801 Megan Stats, Division of Boating and Ocean Recreation, LNR 802 Jessica Puff, State Historic Preservation Division, LNR 806 state parks, LNR 906 Alishuti with the Human Resources Center, LNR 906. Lila Luce with it, LNR 906.

Cynthia Gomez with the Office of Administrative services office, LNR 906 PUA IU, our homeless coordinator and LNR 906. It is Dan Dennison with communications. I don't think he's present today. Also present with us today are the administrators to several of the agency that that are administratively attached to DLNR, including LNR 908.

Michael Nahoopi with the Kahoolawe Island Reserve Commission and LNR901. John DeFries, Executive Director of the Mauna Kea Stewardship Oversight Authority. Eleanor 907 is Lemana Damate. She is Executive Director with the Ahamoku Council and she notified us that she will not be attending today's hearing. Her husband passed away last week, so we are wishing her well.

Mahalo for the opportunity to provide a briefing of DLNR's budget to the House Finance Committee and welcome back. I'd like to briefly go over what my presentation will be.

First, I'll do an overview of DLNR's mission goals and highlight our proposed budget request for Bienium FY2627 through the PowerPoint slides, which you should have received in advance of the hearing. Then we'd like to proceed with answering any questions the Committee Members may have regarding our proposed budget.

After DLNR's presentation, we'd like to provide an opportunity to both Kirk and Mauna Kea to present their proposed budget and answer any questions. With that being said, I'll proceed.

First, DLNR's mission is to enhance, protective, conserve and manage Hawaii's unique and limited natural, cultural and historic resources held in public trust for the current and future generations of the people of Hawaii and its visitors, in partnership with others from the public and private sectors.

Eleanor's Fiscal Year 20262027 Budget Summary Our goal is to have sufficient capacity and financial resources to manage our 1.3 million acres of lands, 3 miles of ocean waters and all resources in between that fall under DLNR's jurisdiction. Our budget is based upon the following 1.

To address staffing capacity, we're implementing multiple strategies to address our staff vacancies, recruitment and retention 2. To Fund backlog repair and deferred maintenance, especially at small boat harbors and state parks 3. To provide sufficient capacity to enhance wildlife readiness, protection of endangered species and control invasive species 4.

To increase base General operational funds to attract federal matching funds and most importantly, to fulfill our mission and 5. To increase special Fund ceilings to allow divisions to utilize user fees to support our facilities. I'd like to briefly go over a summary of our deal and our staffing. We have 1,100 FTE 49 part time positions.

Those are on Table 3. On Table 11 is our vacancy of 24%, which is 3% down from last year. Recruitment efforts for FY24 resulted in 200 recruitments and we filled 208 positions. I'd like to take a little time to describe a new process our Human Resources Department has instituted to address our staffing recruitment.

Last year, through this legislative support for additional staff to Human Resources, cooperation with D Herd and buy in from the Department, we have successfully begun the process of transitioning external civil Service recruits that were previously conducted by Deherd to be assumed by DLNR hr. This is known as the Delegated recruitments.

Through this process we have been able to do the following. To date, the number of positions approved for delegated recruitment is 48. Combined with our exempt positions, DLNR is approved to conduct 167 total delegated recruitments which is 14.53% of its position count.

We have 14 divisions participating in delegated recruitment that include both civil service and exempt efforts which demonstrates the Department wide impact of this initiative. Now, how has this initiative impacted recruitment efforts?

To date, the data from our Civil service delegated recruitments thus far have found that we have reduced by half to 130 days, four months or 10 days from what was previously our recruitment process time.

We believe that with time and experience, our comfort level and understanding of the recruitment platform system, we will improve and decrease the time even further.

To further highlight our staff's success with the transition to delegated recruitment, on average, our team was able to craft and post a position specific announcement within 30 days of the information being provided by the division and review applications within 13 days of the job announcement, closing or application being submitted.

Our job announcements are tailored towards a specific position including position specific job duties. Position description is attached, visual aids are included and we have a point of contact. Information is also included in the information regarding the position. This has yielded enough interest to a qualified pool of candidates.

While this takes time and investment up front, the time is saved on the applicant's part as they only apply for jobs which fit their employment interest and skill set and the division receives a list of qualified applicants who are truly interested in the specific job.

Over time, we look forward to increasing the number of positions that will be eligible for the delegated recruitment. I'd like to now briefly just go over what our budget our operational budget which is on table 2. For the year FY25 we received approximately $326,632,854. FY26, our proposed budget is $320,586,079. For FY27, our proposed budget is $293,757,356.

With respect to CIP budget which is on table 15, our FY26 CIP budget is 34,500,000 and for FY27 it's 9 million. So thank you. I'd now like to proceed and highlight our proposed budget additions for the various LNRs for biennium FY2026 2027 which is found on Table 6 and CIPs for the respective LNRs.

I'd like to first go through LNR 101 which is our land division. So in FY25 we received $6.1 million appropriation to complete phase two of the Uncle Billy's Demolition and Removal of Underground Structures and utilities.

We do have a design build contract that we just went out for notice to proceed and they will be proceeding on to complete that demolition. We received five positions and Land Division has not yet established them as they are awaiting the completion of office renovations for FY2627 this year.

LNR101 land division is only requesting CIP funds all MOFB Department priority number two is $1.5 million for statewide CESSPU closures in accordance with EPA consent order. Priority number nine is 700,000 for Shangri La breakwater removal on Oahu.

Priority number eight is 500,000 for the lower Kapahe Reservoir removal on Kauai and priority 21 is $500,000 for the East Kapolei Tod project on Oahu. Our next division is LNR 101 OCCL or Office of Conservation and Coastal Lands.

We did not receive any funding for FY2024 and nor are we asking for any funding this year but we will continue to use our beach restoration special funds for coastal restoration projects statewide. Next is LNR101 it's climate change Mitigation and Adaptation Commission also known as CCMAP LNR 101 priority numbers 34 and 36.

We are asking for two new positions for CCMAT. Currently we only have one position. She is the Administrator of the office and the two positions is one for an administrative support services and two for a planner. Next is LNR 102 Legacy Land Conservation Program and FY2627 27.

We are requesting fringe benefit adjustment from special Fund ceiling to increase fringe benefits in the amount of $2,340.

Next is LNR 111 Bureau of Conveyances in FY24 Bureau received a ceiling increase to retain a contractor to work on land court backlog which is reduced in an additional which has produced or reduced the backlog by three years for FY2627. Bureau of Conveyances is not requesting any additional funds.

We will continue to work on our build out of our automation infrastructure to make delivery of documents more efficient. We are also having stakeholder discussions regarding the potential of abolishing the antiquated land court system. Next is LNRs 141 and 810, which is our engineering division.

In FY25 under LNR 141, we received and released $2 million for statewide rockfall flood mitigation. For FY2627 under LNR 810, which is under our priority number six, we are requesting $1,100. No, $110,000. Excuse me.

We are requesting to add recurring funding for a Planner 5 position to support the dam and impertinence improvement or removal grant program which is authorized under Act 134 Session Laws 2023. So last year we did get the. We did get the establishment of the program, but we didn't have staffing.

So we were requesting staffing so we can begin to implement that program. LNR for FY2026 27 under LNR810, priority number seven. We would like to add recurring special Fund ceiling for the dam grant program of $5 million. LNR 810 priority number 11, $10,334,475. And for FY27, $672,000. 672,680. I have a hard time with these six.

It's just how to say that the hundred $672,683. I think that's correct. I apologize. It's a federal FEMA grant award that we. It's to match our federal FEMA grant award under the high hazard dam program also under LNR810 for FY2627.

It's a fringe benefit adjustment to cover increase and fringe benefits due to the high due to a higher base salary positions. We're asking for $1,097 for both years and FY2627 under CIP, the Department priority number four.

We are again requesting $2 million for rockfall mitigation improvements to support the rockfall monitoring and assessment program which is critical to ensuring the safety and maintenance of multiple rockfall hazard sites across the state. Next is LNR 401. The Division of Aquatic Resources.

Last year FY2025, the Division of Aquatic Resources began implementing the ocean stewardship fee also known as Aloha Kekai program to support ocean stewardship. This is through the assessment of $1 for each commercial vessel passenger this year. FY 2020627. We are not requesting any additional funds for Operations.

However, we are requesting a CIP which is Department priority number 36. A request for $400,000 for the Wahiawa fishing access improvements on oahu. Next is LNR's 172401402407 and 804, all associated with the Division of Forestry and wildlife. Let me first cover LNR 172, our resource management and development for FY2627.

We originally requested $25 million and the Governor approved of $5 million under MOFA. And this is to manage our 700,000 acres of Statewide Forest Reserve systems for purposes of fencing to exclude invasive species, protection of priority watersheds and wildfire prevention measures. Specifically, this is for equipment for pre suppression suppression and post fire suppression restoration.

By increasing pre suppression fuel breaks, fuel reductions and resilient landscapes, we are much more proactive. We are taking a more preventive and proactive measure to prevent fires. And then let me move on to LNR401 which is our legacy land Fund.

We are asking for a fringe benefit adjustment of special funds ceiling to increase to higher base pay positions of $2,314 for FY26 and 22. No LNR 401. I think that's legacy land funds, LNR 402 native resources and Fire protection. We are requesting a federal Fund ceiling adjustment for anticipated federal Grant increases for FY 2020 of $823,000. $823,171.

Priority number eight. We are requesting $1,000,425. $425,696. I'm having a really hard time with these Thousands to Fund 22 positions for fire emergency response. If you recall, we did receive 22 positions through the Major Disaster Fund MDF for Fire and emergency response statewide. However, these positions were not legislatively authorized.

Thus we are asking you to Fund these positions this year. We do have prepared all the position descriptions but we were not able to move forward with them last year. So that's where we're coming in this year. Under priority number 24, we are asking for 404.2 million to Fund invasive Species Council.

His supports the multi agent Interagency coordination for statewide biosecurity to prevent and manage invasive species which is primarily done on an island based network. The HYSC is co chaired by both the Chair of the DLNR and Chair of Department of Ag. So we are. That is the basis upon which we're trying to be more coordinated.

So we're not duplicating efforts of DOA, but we're managing what's on DLNR's lands or state public lands and DOA manages what they have regulatory authority for. Priority number 2028 is $500,000 to Fund Hawaii Ant Lab.

This is the only organization dedicated to solely managing and eradicating invasive ants and they have come up with a very effective tool to the eradication of little fire ants. So we would like a funding request putting in a funding request of $500,000.

Also our request includes a governor's adjustment for FY26 of $4 million for fire and emergency response. DLNR originally requested in our budget $7 million which was not included in the Governor's Budget but subsequently through a Governor's adjustment that include $4 million.

Governor's adjustment for FY26 is $3 million specifically for the West Maui Fire Prevention Ukumehame Wetland Funds are necessary to create green fire breaks for the fire prone west Maui.

Finally under CIP priority number 13 $2 million for Pohakea Fire Prevention and Suppression on Maui and We are requesting $1.75 million for FY2626 27 to purchase and install fencing, irrigation systems and landscaping to reduce fires and reduce erosion that impacts our coral reefs. Under LNR 407 natural area reserves and watershed management.

For FY2627 we are requesting $5 million CIP for statewide watershed protection. We're also requesting for FY2627A $1900-001909-00000 for forest federal funding an adjustment to match Federal Fund Grants LNR 804 Forest and Outdoor Recreation we are requesting a wildlife biologist position change from MOFA to end grant funding in the amount of $46,897.

Next is LNR404, our Commission on Water Resource Management, also known as CWorm. For FY25, CWorm received $1 million to support the USGS joint funding agreement to conduct statewide streams, groundwater and rainfall monitoring for FY2627. Under priority number 25 we are requesting $400,000 to continue the joint funding agreement to monitor 16 Maui streams.

The current joint funding supports a statewide network of monitoring again of streams, groundwater and rainfall stations. Priority number 37 is $250,000 for FY26 and $150,000 for FY27 to support Central Maui Hydraulic Study to analyze the existing groundwater in Central Maui.

Priority number 49 is $200,000 for FY26 and 27 to support a sustainable yield investigation modeling tool for impacts of climate change. Climate impacts on Groundwater. Priority number 50, we are requesting $350,000 for FY26 and 27 to support the network of climate stations in collaboration with the Hawaii Mesonet.

CWORM is requesting under cipher priority number 11, $2 million for FY26 and 27 for deep monitoring well statewide. Next is LNR 405 DOE Care Division of Conservation and Resource Enforcement. For FY25 we filled 24 new recruit positions. 12 of those recruits are being assigned to the newly established Marine Unit Division. Across the state.

Employees in these positions have completed Docare's academy training and are now in the field. Docare's goal is to have a force of at least 400 Docare officers. We are currently at about 140 officers statewide for FY2627. Under priority number nine, we are requesting $616,272 for FY2627.

This is critical funding to increase the salaries of CREO1 to CREO3 for the 62 position. This funding will ensure retention and improve morale at DOE Care and it will provide pay equity. Priority number 10, we are requesting $500,000 for each for FY 2627 to support increase in staffing equipment and equipment to support DOE CARE operations.

Priority number 12, we are requesting $1.5 million in FY26 and 27. This funding includes overtime pay for statewide disaster emergency response which included Maui wildfires and are full time monitoring currently at Waianae Small Boat harbor. But whenever there are emergency responses our DOE Care officers this is to pay them overtime.

DOE Care is requesting CIP our priority number five. It's $3 million for the Hawaii branch critical renovations and heat. $800,000 for the Maui office renovations. Next is LNR 801. This is our Division of Boating and Ocean Recreation in FY24. DOAR was able to dredge Waa I'm Sorry Small Boat harbor in November of 2024 for $4.8 million.

Funding was provided by the Legislature and Dobar Special Fund. We will start the Pohoiki dredging project in FY2025 for a total cost of $9.2 million. In FY2627 we are requesting the change of MOF of three voting positions from A to B. FY26 we are requesting CIP. Our priority number 6 and 7.

While the estimated cost of Lahaina harbor is 29 million, the governor's approved 5 million for Lahaina dredging and 8 million for Lahaina reconstruction that will permit us to get started. Next is LNR 802 State Historic Preservation Division. SHPD is requesting federal Fund ceiling increase for match anticipated federal funds for FY26 and 27 in the amount of $104,767.

We are requesting a CIP deal on department's priority number four, $700,000 to renovate the Hilo office to address employee health and safety concerns. Next is LNR 806.

State parks in FY2025 State parks use funds to support the replace aging vehicles and equipment, increased repair and maintenance projects, began a preferred contractor contracting model to streamline Procurement services for RMM and 4 covered the increasing salary cost of five county lifeguard statewide contracts in highly populated beaches.

In FY2627, priority number 16 and 17, we are requesting $1 million in non recurring funds to increase our ceiling to purchase motor vehicles and equipment. We are also requesting under CIP priority number 9,3 million for infrastructure and park improvement statewide to better position them for parking reservation system.

Finally in LNR 906, this is the administration's or the chair's office. In FY25, mahalo to the Legislature. You helped Fund six FTE positions to the chair office including the Economic Development Specialist five which has been filled. We're also in the process of interviewing for the two special assistants, the Policy Coordinator, Outreach coordinator and the Administrative Assistant.

All these positions have been established and are in active recruitment and we are interviewing for those positions. So in FY2627 our number one. Our priority number one is to request additional funds for a Labor Relations EEO of $43,188 for FY26 and $86,376 for FY27. Priority numbers 2A $21,372 2b, $21,058 and priority number four, $81,064.

We are requesting funds to increase the salaries for the new delegated recruitment team. These are we are asking them to take on additional responsibilities to help with recruitment. So we would like to just increase their salary commensurate with the additional duties that they're assuming.

Priority number 33 we are requesting funds to complete phase 3 and 4 of Act 182, our consolidated website for the year FY 2426. We are requesting $1,480, $448,167 and an FY 27 $1,445,486. Finally, we are asking for special funds ceiling increase for fringe benefit adjustment of $150,076 to increase higher base pay for positions.

That was kind of a speed dating of all of our all of our requests, but I do believe I've covered all of the requests that are in Table 6. So again, we greatly appreciate the support of the Committee and the Legislature in the past and we look forward to continued response support.

This provides you an overview of our budget requests and I am now and my staff are available to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.

The the others are going to go after you.

Yes. And so we'd like to Reserve some time to ensure that Kirk and Monica have an have a time to present their pro their budget.

Okay. Members, we're open up to questions at this point. Okay. Representative thank you, Jer.

Thank you for being here. Thank you. My question is simple. For the cesspool closures, what happens after you close the CESSPU? Does that funding include replacement, I mean, putting in another system?

Good morning. Representative Durazo Tsuji for Land Division. The estimate does not include the replacement of it. It's just a closure that is required by the consent order that was issued by EPA and entered and signed by the Department.

Our plan as to any type of future use of the property if it was to go back out to auction or some other lease, we have a standard provision requiring the lessee informing the lessee about the large capacity cesspool issue.

And in this case, because we closed it, the issue would be mainly to either connect up to county sewer to use the property or if that is not available, to install an independent wastewater system.

Is there any compensation but some incentive for the for the lessee to do that?

Yes. Thank you. To the Legislature that passed legislation a few years ago, it allows us to do offer a rent credit and it can be very substantial for infrastructure type of improvements and demolition.

So like in this case, if it's cesspool kind of related, we believe it would qualify for that larger rent credit for the up to the cost of the improvements or up to 20 years of fair market rent, whichever is less. So. Okay. So that will be, we think.

Thank you.

Okay. Thank you very much for the questions. Representative Kush.

I have a few. Chair But I'll just stick to kind of broad topics. Chair thank you. And all of DLNR staff coming in today. I appreciate that you guys have a big, big responsibility. I'm just following up on the status of the conversion of DLNR to AG leases.

I know a bunch have been made and if you could just maybe update the.

And these are the Act 90 transfers from DLNR to DOA, correct?

If we have Kevin.

Kevin Moore is with our Land Division and he has been keeping all of us updated on the status of the Act 90 transfers. So I'm going to ask Kevin, as I think that would be much more helpful. But we have been aggressively trying to complete those transfers.

My recollection is that we did come to the Land Board a couple of months ago with at least 34 leases. So, Kevin, the question is, where's the Status of Act 90? If you can come introduce yourself.

Good morning. Kevin Moore, Land Division, DLNROK. So in the last two years, the Board of Agriculture and Board of Financial Resources have approved about 36,000 additional acres for transfer. And before that we had about 20,000 already completed. So we have dual board approval of right now about 56,000 acres.

And about 24,000 of those have been documented through an Executive order. Rest of those eight dispositions have subdivision or mapping issues. That will take additional time, but we're working with DOA and also with the Department of Accounting and General Services Survey Division to get those wrapped up, too.

Okay, so you're referring to the 56,000 acres. 32,000 still remain to be mapped. And so the transfers kind of weight in or just in process. And how many remaining acres or. Yeah, I guess we'll just stick with acres. Is that denominator remain to transfer?

If I can represent. So the transfers are really based upon leases or revocable permits. So the process is both DLNR and DOA agree. So there. I think there were a total of. Is there a total of about. I want to say 100. Might be about 100 leases.

So we have transferred, I'd like to say of about 60, and we're in the process of transferring others. There have been some that we have not agreed to transfer because DLNR wants to use those for station watershed management. But those that we have agreed to, we're in the process.

One of the challenges that we've been having is it's doing a survey. So, for example, Kapapala, Kapapala Ranch, that was about a total of about 20,000 acres. And we. And it's. And it is costing us a quarter of $1.0 million to survey that property.

So my understanding is there is proposed legislation to try to facilitate the Executive orders being transferred without the necessity of a meets and bounds survey. So that should help also facilitate many of the transfers.

But we are trying to work very hard with DOA on transferring those properties that we both agree on and facilitating those with whatever tools we have.

Okay. So primarily it's a logistics issue. Yes, the ground logistics to getting it completed. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. And then I know State Parks is going to come up separate and Mauna, you can.

State Parks is with us, so you can ask them and.

Well, I'll wait till they do their presentation.

Zero, so I did it for them.

Zero, okay. I thought you said they were going to do a separate.

Zero, no, I'm sorry. So it was more Kahoolawe Island Reserve Commission and Mauna Kea will do their own. But State Parks falls under dealing that.

Okay. You mentioned 500,000 for Hawaii ant lab in the eradication of LFA and I was just wondering if you had any details how that was going to occur. And I understand you're working with doa and we talked with them about this yesterday and so I was just curious.

Thank you. So I'm going to ask Chelsea Arnott. Chelsea is our hi. Coordinator and she will be in the best position to answer that. Thank you. Thank you.

Never sit in the back row.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Chelsea Arnott with Program support for the Hawaiian Invasive Species Council. And mahalo for that question. We're working really closely with Department of Agriculture, our Hawaiian Invasive Species Council. We Fund a number of partner organizations like the Island Invasive Species Committee. Hawaii Ant Lab is a huge one too.

And so they haven't had any long term stable funding for the last three to four years now. And we're looking at having something to help stabilize that program because they are really essential with doing the on the ground control, assisting partners communities.

And so they're working with residences in communities mostly and doing trainings with our partner organizations like the Island Invasive Species Committees to make sure we're doing the on the ground support. They also do a lot of community engagement. The Hawaii Department of Agriculture, we work with them closely too on the ground for little fire ant control.

And they got the $10 million last year for biosecurity that included over $1.0 million to support little fire ant response that they put out for RFPs to contract private pest control. So they're working really closely with communicating on where those pest control companies are going to be working.

And then where is Hawaii Ant Lab and the Island Invasive Species going to be working. So we're not duplicating efforts, but they really are our research and extension services for not just little fire ant, but other invasive ants. They survey for all invasive ants.

And if we got something like red imported fire ant, which we really don't want, and we do constant surveys through the Hawaii Ant Lab for that pest, they would be the ones that would help us get rid of that.

So this is an additional 500 recurring funding for the invasive species councils of each county.

It would be so specific to ant lab. It's just for the Hawaii ant lab. And then we do have a request in there for 4.25 million that would support the Hawaiian Invasive Species Council.

And that pretty much 90% of that funding goes to supporting the island invasive species committees, research through the University of Hawaii and other research institutions, and a whole array of other projects.

Okay. I don't want to. I appreciate that. Thank you, Chair. I don't want to hog up all the time. I do have one more question and we can ask later. We'll see if it comes up. You can go ahead. Sure. Yeah. Thank you. I apologize. Thank you. Not at all.

So in my district and the surrounding districts, a big issue is the leases on Waiakea Peninsula and Konoe Lehua industrial area. And I don't want to. Are you going to ask? Yeah. So I don't want to step on your toes either. A senior team Member there.

And so, and correct me if I'm wrong, I've heard some statistics about the time it takes to turn over DLNR leases, industrial leases and such, say here in Oahu compared to Hawaii island and specifically Kia. And you know, Waikea Peninsula has been a long, long, long, long simmering issue.

And I'm glad for the governor's emergency proclamation to finally get something going with Uncle Billy's and Representative Leeloy. It was key in that just maybe if you could provide some insight and what energy is going to go towards kind of turning the corner and some statistics to that.

Thank you. I'm going to ask Durazo Suchi from our land division, who manages those leases to come up.

Have a specific question in mind or area in mind?

Yeah, I'm just asking, is it correct that the leases that are being processed. In Waikea Peninsula and Kanoe Lehua industrial area take years versus months, say on Oahu?

Well, first off, on both sides they are unmanned dispositions, whether it's a lease or some permit. Waikea Peninsula, if you mean Banyan Drive, there's long term leases and there are a few permits. When you say permits, 30 day Shorter term permits. Up until last year.

In fact, the last legislative session they passed a law that allows us to do direct negotiation type leases. Other than that, the only option at that point once your lease expires is to go to public auction, which takes time to get ready.

The lease document has to be prepared, all of the legal documents has to be prepared in advance of the auction and it must be available at the auction for review before the auction occurs. In Kanolehua's context in the industrial area, again, those are all on leases already or at the minimum a permit.

But most of them are leases. The issue there is they are expiring, they're coming to their 65 year thing. They've had with the recent legislation, they have the ability to request to an extension.

The research extension has conditions such as determining the current value of the improvements and the minimum improvements to be required to qualify for an extension is 30% or more of the value of the building. And secondly, in order to qualify for an extension, you must be in complete compliance with the lease, the existing lease terms.

What oftentimes happens is we get these requests for extensions very late when the lease is about to expire, so there's not much time to act on it. And staff ends up scrambling to make sure some compliance issues are taken care of before presenting the matter to the board.

And in addition, checking the appraisal, checking to make sure the improvements are qualifies as substantial improvements as defined by the legislation. So there's a lot of work involved in before it goes to the land board for presentation. So it does take time.

And so we've asked our lessees to submit that package to us in a timely fashion before, you know, preferably a year before or more before it expires.

Because once you get into that last year and then if you need, if we need to take to the board, for example, or get information from the lessee and take to the board consents to sublease, you know, a lot of these industrial sites are being subleased out to multiple tenants.

The board supposed to consent to Those subleases and we sometimes through oversight, it's not consented to. And so we need to correct that before presenting the lease extension request to the board. So there's a lot of steps to get to that final approval by the board and then there's lease documentation.

But getting the approval by the board is the key to meet that deadline.

So those issues are unique to Hilo and don't occur at other industrial lease sites.

Hilo. It's unique to Hilo in a way because we have a lot of industrial leases there, number one. And they all are coming due like right about now. Yeah. 65 years after many of other areas are not as much one or two and they come due and. Or either not due yet.

So that's why we have a lot of work out there in Hilo. Yes.

Okay, I'll defer to Representative Lee Loy. Thank you, Chair.

Okay, thank you for the question. Representative.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chair, Deputy, for being here. I think building off of my colleague's question, we're trying to understand and or measure the efficacy of Act 149. We can take that conversation offline because I understand the complexities, but what we're trying to drive home is that is our economic district.

It's challenging for our small businesses or our businesses to make good business decisions if there's a lot of uncertainty about the timeliness of the lease, the lease extension, or how they pencil out their economic business plans because of the uncertainty.

So if we could have an offline conversation with my colleague on that because we hear a lot in Hilo. Coconut Wireless is alive and well over there. And in addition to the efficacy of Act 149. And I do want to publicly thank you, Chair Chang, for the work that we've done together for Uncle Billy's.

It was a magnet for a lot of uncle unlawful and really dipped into our county budget by ways of calls for service because of the unlawful activity that was happening there. And we've seen improvement with the demolition of Uncle Billy's, but we also recognize that there's some other properties.

I would also love to understand with the emergency proclamation, we were able to reduce a lot of the bureaucracy in the permitting and the lease extension processes.

And I would love for us to understand that so that we can do better and when we write future leases, especially as it relates to economic development, how we have places to have a off ramp or a check in point so that our economic leases actually keep pace with the economic ups and downs of business.

I actually wanted to Lean in a little bit about your native resources and fire protection. And you're one of the departments that's coming towards the tail end of our finance info briefing. So we've heard a lot. And so we also heard a lot from dot, how they've been great part partners.

We had heard from dod and I just want to understand because we see a lot of money going into fire mitigation, firewise programs, but also stewardship, which your Department handles. I was just wondering what the sustainability looks like because we're putting a lot of money in these areas through various departments. And I'm.

I'll just say it just feels like it's going to always be outgoing and how we get to a place where maybe we can invite other community partners or stewardship programs who can help after you guys do all the fire mitigation and firewise programs to then invite others into that to continue the management.

It's not borne, the cost is not borne by the Department of Land and.

Natural Resources and Representative Leela, I really appreciate that comment. I have both. I have Michael Walker, I have David Smith with doefa. I also have our Division of Aquatic Research. I mean, I will take.

So when we came on board, I am trying really hard to do Makutu Makai, to do Ahupua land management because I know that DLNR, we don't have the capacity or the. But nor should it just be DLNR's responsibility. Right. We need to have partnerships with our, our land base, our Ina base.

So I mean, people like our state parks have been very successful, like with Hyena. And that's been a really great example of co stewardship, co management.

We are expanding that because when you talk about sustainability, who can best sustain these resources other than those communities who have a sense of Kuleana to that place we can try to provide the tools. But likewise with fire mitigation. And maybe Michael can talk about our watershed partnerships.

That to me has been a really good example of the collaboration where we are empowering these partners, these landowners, because fires and invasive species and ungulates, they see no boundaries, they cross over. So unless we're working in collaboration with all of our landowners, public and private.

And I think the watershed partnership is a really good example of that. I don't know, Michael, if you want to add anything more.

Sure. Aloha chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Michael Walker. I'm the statewide fire protection forester for the division. So historically our budget has really only covered the suppression side of things. And when I started the job in 2017. Our annual suppression budget was $600,000.

You could spend that in a matter of hours in California. So we've increased the suppression budget over the years to cover our costs for suppression. But what we're really looking for going forward is to complete the. The prevention, post suppression and restoration side of the budget, which we've been lacking for a long time.

So the prevention side of things, we rely heavily on Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization, and we budgeted $1.5 million to go to them. They cover a lot of the outreach work. The firewise Community Program, which is a national Fire Prevention Association program that we, the DofA is the signature for for the state.

And then pre suppression work is all of that brush clearing and fire breaks and shaded fuel breaks and things like that.

That also includes water resource development, putting water tanks in places where there's a lack of water for not only for fire suppression, but also to do a lot of the pre suppression work, which we use grazing animals a lot with contractors and so forth.

And then the post fire part of the equation too, which we haven't been funded yet before, is to really do a lot of the outplanting, restoring forests, restoring forested watersheds, and kind of making these systems a little bit more healthy and able to withstand what the impacts of the fire has done to them.

So just follow up to that. And thanks to this previous body, they put a lot of money to the Cuckoo program, which was that stewardship program. Is that where your Department is kind of dovetailing into the COPU program or is that separate?

We do have COPU folks out there working within each branch. We are looking to expand that this year. So because of the funding situation with SB306, that Bill got vetoed. And then the funds that we were supposed to get for our positions and for our equipment and our operating budget were funded through the major disaster Fund.

But because of the Bill being vetoed, we don't have a legal standing to create the positions. So we are looking, once we can move that money from payroll over to operating, we're going to add more to KUPU to kind of supplement that work.

So if I can just add to that. So coopu is probably one of our greatest partners. They create a workforce that we also. Many of them have become DLNR employees. So through that base. So that's been. And I think we received for some reason, I want to say $5 million that Cooper received.

And much of their workforce and training is done specifically with dlnr.

Yeah. Which walks Me nicely into the next part of the question. You and so many departments are really struggling with vacancies and I heard you mention a number of initiatives that you put in to help fill a lot of the vacancies that you have.

Just wondering what that pipeline looks like because we saw the gains that the Cooper program kind of leading into our DOE dual care officers and that graduating class that you had a few months ago.

Just trying to understand what kind of pipeline we're developing within DLNR to attract so many of the positions that you need from our high school or early college so that they, our kids can recognize that they can stay home and be in the mountains or down at the beach, but have a job.

And thank you for that. And I think when we came on board we recognized that that is sort of an untapped resource and it's not just kupu, but just Ina based knowledge. So how are we recognizing and acknowledging that Ina base.

So our HR and in particular all of our divisions, they have been working very closely with our HR to develop position descriptions that are tailored for dlnr. So we're looking at maybe you don't need to have the equivalent of a bachelor's is years of service of Ina based practice and you get credit for that.

And that became an opportunity to qualify for a position. So CUPU is probably one of those that they have direct access to employment at dlnr. We have hired a lot of KUPU interns who then become staff. We're also trying to partner up with a lot of even uh, law school.

A lot of their fellows who come to us as fellows are now staff. So we're one trying to create DLNR as a career path. You can actually work and you can make a living. I mean Docare, for example, when they go online for their recruitments or their applications, they open at 12 midnight by 1, by 1 hour.

All of the positions, all of the available applications are gone. But that's how sought after some of these positions are. So I think our hr, through this delegated recruitment is able to work with the divisions to tailor the position descriptions to the specific division needs.

And we have been able to attract a lot of just local kids who want to work. So that's been sort of our pipeline, as you say into DLNR is both. So it's not only entry level, but it's also within the Department creating a promotion ladder that you can move up from one to the next as a.

So there have been many opportunities where that has been created. So like I said, we are trying to create deal in our as a career path. A very important.

Because most of the people who work at D1 are obviously, I don't think they're there for the money, but they're there because they have a passion, but they should get compensated for what they do. So we're trying to do a lot of the different strategies.

Great. Thank you for that. Chair Chang. I think other departments did really well at articulating their shadowing program and their career path opportunities.

And so I just want to make sure that we're funding your HR Department in the right way so that they also have time not only to just do the General paperwork, but create an ecosystem of how we get our kids from high school, college into so many of these departments that have high vacancies.

You know, I don't have any other questions, but I offered this to the Department of Defense and I will share it with you folks. DoD has a repi program which is a readiness and environmental protection integration arm. And they've done amazing work on Hawaii island with watershed protections, doing the studies. And I think inviting that.

Those dollars and that subject matter expertise to help us across the state to look at our Maukatu Makai kind of systems that we want to create, I think would be a great place for the Department to connect with.

Thank you. So reppie is probably one of our largest partners. How much are we. I mean, we are getting. And they've been partners with us probably for the last five years. So they've helped us acquire lands like in Maunawili. They help us with invasive species with fencing programs statewide. So repi. Indeed.

And you're right, they have been a great partner. I think they kind of. They kind of understate their relationship with dod, but they are. They've been a vital partner with us. So thank you for that. And I think we have found them to be really open to working with us statewide and trying to expand.

So we've recently become a REPI program. A repi.

What is it called?

Sentinel Landscape. So Hawaii is a sentinel landscape. And DLNR has been really instrumental in fostering and nurturing that and promoting that. So we totally appreciate your recognition of that.

Great. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Representative Miyake.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chair, for your presentation, Deputy, for being here. My question is for Shipti. It's my understanding that there are no archaeologists in Shipti in Maui County anymore. There's a vacancy. Have you filled their vacancies or when do you anticipate filling them? Good morning.

That is correct. zero, Apologies everyone. My name is Jessica Puff. I'm the administrator of shpd. Yes, we lost our. We have two positions potentially for Maui County for archaeologists. We lost an archaeologist, the only one we had for Maui County this summer.

And we've been working with HR and Fiscal in DLNR to get those positions reposted as quickly as possible. I believe they should be posted this week. That was the last update that I received and we are actively recruiting for them.

So we have identified some potential candidates who are interested in applying and we're hoping to fill those as soon as possible. They're our number one priority.

Okay, Follow up Chair. So the reason for my question is that this issue is holding up reviews for building permits. So how can we help expedite that building permit challenges?

Well, currently the load for the Maui county and in particular Lahaina Wildfire Recovery, both in Lahaina and in the Kula area, but mostly in the Lahaina area, all those building permits have been prioritized in our office and are being reviewed by the other archaeologists on shifty staff.

So we have spread the load across our other archaeologists so that we get those out first. And I think it's a tricky part because we could ask for more positions, but you've already given us positions previously that we're still working to fill. We just completed the reorganization process that we were required to fill.

We just also this past summer completed the pay increases for staff and the next step was to finalize all of the PDs and get those posted. And we're working on that. So it's hard for us to ask for additional staff at this moment until we fill the positions that we have in terms of permitting.

We've been actively working with Maui County in particular on developing sort of a streamlined approach approached through an agreement document where we can utilize their contract with Four Leaf and then we can also utilize the preservation professional staff that Maui County has.

They have an architectural historian, they have an archaeologist, they have the new OEV division and to collaborate with the county more to sort of pre review some of these permits to really only send those that have a significant concern to us for review.

So we're trying to figure out other proactive ways to get ahead of this that will, I think, work in this moment while we don't have archaeologists. But it's something that we can continue to build on going forward in the event that anything like this were to happen again.

Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. What's the backlog for Shipti reviews?

The current backlog for Shipte reviews is it's dependent upon the project type. We're pretty up to date on all, pretty simple what we might classify as simple permits. We're up to date on all the permits for West Maui and Lahaina. We've been reviewing those projects within days, if not a couple of weeks.

And I say that it's dependent because some of these projects that we get are complicated and our number one issue right now is the completedness of submittals. So we might get an applicant who doesn't know how to navigate the process.

And our staff has to hold, sort of hold their hand through it and explain to them what we need to complete the review if there's consultation that needs to occur with the public or descendants about a particular issue involving their project.

So those projects can take weeks, months and in some cases years, depending upon what the applicant is trying to do and how responsive they may be to the information that we request.

Okay. I'll reach out to you more offline administrator, if you don't mind, to talk more about I, because I represent Central Maui. So in Wailuku we just have years of backlog and I don't think that's appropriate, you know, for, especially for housing and the shortage that we have right now. So I think it's very important. Thank you.

Absolutely. And if there's any additional, like follow up that we can do with individual property or project proponents to give them support that they need, I'm happy to do that. Our staff's happy.

That'd be great. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair, I would urge you, Jessica's been really responsive. She's just recently taken on the position a couple of months ago, maybe three months ago.

Yeah.

So. But she's been very responsive. So please communicate with her directly and she will try to get back to you as soon as she can. And we are trying to institutionalize different strategies as well.

So where we are working, like Jessica said, with the county entering into a memorandum of agreement to help facilitate some of that, even with other agencies, government agencies, just streamlining the process through having an upfront agreement on how we're going to proceed.

So we're trying to, we recognize the frustration by many that things are taking long if and you shouldn't hesitate if something is seems to be taking unduly long time, let us know and we can follow up with you.

I appreciate that, Chair. Thank you. Thank you, Jessica. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the question.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director. I have a question about state parks, so I was just wondering if you could provide Kurt a update on where we are with state parks and the plans to generate more revenue.

I know we've been having this conversation for a couple of years now and just wondering, you know, have you looked at, I think last year we talked about increased funds and about dynamic pricing and how do we make sure that our visitors are paying the maximum amount so that the state gets back as much revenue as we can.

So if you can kind of give an update on where we're at and just how state parks has been generating revenue.

Sure. You guys have a couple hours. Good morning. Kurt Cottrell, Administrator, division of state parks. I had a feeling you were going to ask me this, so if I may, I'll just give you a quick snapshot of where we started to where we are.

So over the past 15 years, starting in 2010, our General and special Fund budget was $11.4 million. As of this fiscal year, we're at $45.9 million of General and special funds. The big jump, as you guys know that have been tracking us, is our special Fund income.

In 2010 it was 6.7, and this year it's $33 million of special Fund income. Our General Fund has been increasing with your guys support, but on a slower level, our General Fund budget has increased roughly from 4.6, which was abysmal in 2010. We were struggling to pay salaries and whatnot.

You guys gave us a huge bump in 2024 up to a $36 million budget. But now it's at a stable base of 12.8 mil and the 12.8 mil, which we really appreciate. You guys converted our special funded positions during COVID to G funds. We didn't have to lay them off.

And our policy and our promise to the Legislature as we move forward is as we generate additional funds in our special funds, that 12.8 is really stable and we don't need to ask for more G funds. You've covered our salaries and you're covering our basic reoccurring utilities.

So God forbid, if another pandemic hits and our revenue drops, at least we can keep the positions funded, keep the lights on, keep the trucks going. But now to the. To the juicy part which I know you're interested in.

We have out of our 54 state park units, 10 of them are what I would call monetized, meaning 10 out of the 54 generate parking and entry fees. Now that doesn't include like our coquet leaseholder cabins or our concessions or mobile food service. That we're developing that's strictly based on parking and entry.

And the four that have advanced reservations that are performing well are haena. You know, the model we started with Waianapa, Napa, IAU and Diamond Head. Now, keep in mind the reservations are twofold. Yes, it helps generate income, but the other parks without reservations are killing it on income.

Because what we've done is we've targeted out of all of our 54 park units, the 10 that get the largest patronage by out of state visitors. Because when we during COVID when we changed our rules, we essentially exempted residents from any parking and entry fees and only targeted parks that have high visitation.

That's a give back to our residents so they don't have to pay because the visitors pay the ones with reservations. In addition to income, it's also assuring a quality of experience. And you guys heard me mention this last year, like Diamond Head used to get 6,000 people a day during the holidays.

And that's not a quality experience for anybody with reservations. We've brought that down to top out at three. And it sometimes doesn't fill. The takeaway is what we're doing is what HTA is trying to do globally for the state is less people, more income, which will get us to where we're at with our fees.

And so we have now been able to establish a quality experience in addition to the revenue generation. But just as importantly, we're saving space for our local residents who have been shut out of these state parks because they've been just consumed by out of state visitors.

Parks we're looking at now to add to the quiver of the 10 that generate parking and entry, Kua Bay is one.

At Kekaha Kai, we're investigating Rainbow Falls on the Big island and then the Wailua river on Kauai are three that we're looking at to establish the parking and entry and concurrently probably reservation system for the ones that are being overused. So we haven't delved into the dynamic pricing model yet.

But when I went to the National Association of State Park Directors meeting in Alabama in September, I met with my comrades and said, so how many of you guys do dynamic pricing? And not a lot of them do, but they mainly do it to incentivize patronage, like in winter months when their numbers drop.

And I know we were talking about maybe flipping it and upping the price during our peak seasons, like spring break, summer, Christmas. We haven't done it yet. I'm still trying to figure out the nexus.

And as I said before, I want to commit to ensuring that the quality of the park unit is up to par before we anchor on more rates. So we haven't yet done the dynamic pricing.

I know you guys gave us that authority a few years ago, but we're still looking at we want to add a few more parks to the quiver that need parking management. And I'll end with, you can't just wave a wand and set up fees.

We need to have either private sector or community partners that are kind of the gatekeepers. They're the concierge. If we have a reservation, you got to have staff that check the reservation. And if you're charging a fee, you need staff to ensure they pay. And that staff costs money and we contract that out.

Except for Haena, it's with private sector parking company. So the last performance metric I'll leave you with is it has to have a certain patronage level that would entice private sector parking companies to bid and generate their own income in our partnership to ensure that we collect the money and the people are actually playing.

So it costs money to make money in that kind of situation. So no, we haven't done dynamic pricing yet. I'm still looking at if we did as an experiment. Diamondhead is the prime example where it may work and we could try it during a peak season type of thing and see what happens.

But Diamondhead now generates over $5 million a year, up to 6 with way less people than it had in 20182019. So quality up, prices up. But experience is commensurate to those fees because now it's 20 bucks for two people to go in instead of five. Right. So does that. That's pretty much the short version.

I can talk offline in way greater.

Detail and I'm glad you over prepared and are looking at ways. Yeah, dawn knows I'm always. And looking at ways to continue to expand. Right. Because I think state parks, as we've mentioned before, is one of the few departments that can generate money.

And we want to figure out how do we help the state so that we don't have to continue to, like you said, put General funds right. You can create your own funding source and that we can be making sure that our visitors are paying their fair share for what they come here to enjoy.

So I'm glad that you're working on it and I encourage you to continue looking at dynamic pricing, expanding the parks that we do charge a fee for. I have a quick question though, specifically to a CIP request. So on page 12 of your slide show, it's under the engineering division though.

But I see that you are looking for $2 million for rock fall and flood mitigation specifically for Diamond Head State Monument. Can this state park's money be used to address that rockfall mitigation instead of asking for a separate.

That is a great, great question. I think that's kind of an error in terms of. And Gayston from Engineering can augment that because we're doing rockfall mitigation right now. What we're trying to do with our operational expenditure plan is big ticket expenditures that would drain the fluidity of our special funds.

We're still going to default to a cip. So we're looking for that sweet spot, particularly with the preferred contractor contracting where we can do the small kind R and M.

But if it's big and if it's going to drain a big chunk of the operating Fund, then no, we would still try to come in with a CIP request.

But in answer to your question, we're using $20,000 for fire mitigation planning with Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization to try to reinvest some of our special funds into preparing for Wildfire. But for that it's just too big of a hook because it'll upset the apple cart of our operational expenditure plan because it's a big hit.

And I think. Representative Kitagawa, thank you. The $2 million isn't just for Diamondhead, is that correct? Yeah, that's the, it is statewide for all Rockfall mitigation. So it's just that that's one of the projects that we've, we identified. But it's not just solely for Diamond Head.

Okay, and then quick follow up question to that. Yeah, you mentioned you special Fund now generates 33 million a year for state parks. What it, what is your expenses of that? Like do you spend now 33 million a year or.

Okay, now I'm getting nervous. Yes. Last year we drew down almost to the penny the 30 million we're anticipating though, because we had a little bit of a hiccup after Covid. We started generating income before our ceiling went up. So we're still chipping away at essentially a bigger balance.

We don't think we're going to be making in the next several years a $30 million nut. I think it's going to go down at current levels of income to about 2827. So our goal is to deplete that special Fund, you know, as much as we can.

But we're always rolling over a little bit each fiscal year just to. Because, you know, as you guys know, there's some years. We didn't get a release of funds last year till like the end of the second quarter. Right. So. But as we generate more, we will spend more. I assure you.

However, if we start generating more than we can spend, it's going to accrue. Great.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. I have a few questions, I guess, for the, I think the LNR402. Michael to start, I think. David. Okay. Did he leave? Okay. Okay. Maybe David and Michael. Okay. Yeah, sorry. The program ID numbers. I have questions for you too, Dave. So I'm a little slow these days.

The post, the post fire restoration that you mentioned, I'm curious how much overlap there is with that, with watershed lands. Like, is that, when you say post fire restoration, are we talking about forest restoration? Is it in like, not. Is it on state lands that are not in priority watershed areas?

Or how do you, how much does that overlap and how do you guys work on those lands?

There can be some overlap, but I think like a prime example of like the post fire restoration work is the Pu'u Anahulu area, particularly that Mauka area that borders PTA, that suffered a fire a couple years back that burned a beautiful stand of ohia and kolea there that we're working to restore through some novel techniques of aerial seed dispersal there, as well as in the ground planting.

So there, there can be overlap, but a lot of the areas that are impacted by fire are not in these priority watersheds because most of them are on the leeward sides there. So.

Do you just have at the top of your mind, like an example from everybody's district that you just pull. Out, like everybody's district, just yours.

And then I guess on the invasive species front, and it's kind of interesting to me that those two are under the same program ID the Invasive Species Council and the, and the fire mitigation. So I guess for Chelsea, but also. Sorry, I guess first, which invasive species, in terms of fire prevention, which ones cause the most problems?

Is it ungulates? Is it other things? Because you've heard a lot of talk about little fire ants and CRB and kind of the ones that interact with people and that they, you know, Koki frogs that people have unpleasant experience with day to day, get a lot of focus.

But what is the most problematic in terms of fire prevention?

The fire ones that we're dealing with right now have been long established. Those are mostly fountain grass, which is predominant on the, on Hawaii island as well. As guinea grass, which is pretty much statewide. They've been established for a long period of time here.

And what we're really nervous about is any kind of novel introduction of any kind of new fire adapted species that may colonize other areas that could potentially provide more fuel in areas that just don't need it.

So how much do ungulates contribute to sort of helping the proliferation of the sort of dry grassland?

I mean, it really started back in the 19th century with the introduction of ungulates on the landscape.

There was a lot of forested areas that are now grasslands that the introduction of ungulates contributed to, particularly on Hawaii island, that the nearly the entire leeward side of the island was somewhat forested or a shrub land all the way down to the coastline.

But when the ungulates were introduced and the kapu was placed upon them, they spread across the landscape. And that kind of coincided also with the sandalwood trade. That fire was used to open up these forested areas to make it easier to harvest the sandalwood. And you could also sniff it out.

And so the fire and the ungulates kind of worked hand in hand to convert a lot of these forested areas into grasslands. So it's been going on for a long time.

You can look back at a lot of the records of the territorial foresters and say that ungulates and fire are two major issues that we're dealing with back at the turn of the 20th century and we're still dealing with them.

Now and then in terms of efforts to control ungulates. Now would it be productive in term, like for fire prevention or is it also heavily integrated? That's kind of hard to say. Or you would have to manage it very carefully.

Yeah, it's currently, now it's a bit of a system that's going on and the disruption in that system can be catastrophic in ways if you do it too quickly. So on one side, these ungulates are damaging these forested watersheds and we need to exclude them.

But also you need to be able to utilize these animals in a positive way. Feral ungulates don't really contribute to a whole lot of targeted fuel reduction because they're going to move around wherever they want, eat whatever they want.

And you can, like whenever you're driving on below Parker Ranch, you can see that certain areas are grazed more heavily and then certain grasses are not. And so they're going after the more palatable grasses in those areas and they're chewing those down and they're leaving the fountain grass.

So you really need to like install fences and force the animals to eat the grass that's there, including the fountain grass. Otherwise, if they're just moving around freely on their own, they're only going to really target the ones that are more palatable to them and leave the fountain grass, which is a lot more flammable intact.

And like between the species, like goats, sheep or cows, like if you're going to use one as a tool for fuel reduction, is, you know, cows the most preferable or what?

They all have their pluses and minuses. And you can look at Haleakala Ranch, she uses mixed herds for specific purposes. Sheep obviously aren't going to be reaching up and browsing as much as goats are and cattle to the same effect.

But you can use goats in particular in areas that have been degraded far below what it would be deemed a good paddock for a cow.

You can use the goats to start rehabbing that area by having them eat a lot of that, more things that aren't going to be as palatable to the cows and start to kind of convert that process over from, you know, something that's dominated by shrubs and things that aren't as palatable to the cows back into a grassland.

So they use them. And I'm obviously not a cattleman, but I, I've seen these projects work particularly on a lot of the Haleakala pastures that they, you know, they're hot country pastures that are above Kihei and things like that.

They, they will rotate their herds and move in goats for a while and then, and then put the cows in after that once they've kind of rehabbed it with the goats. So they're a tool right now that need to be used as such, but they also need to be excluded from the areas that are high value watersheds.

For the feral animals. Are they just continuing then to contribute to the risk? I mean, besides the damage to the.

Environment, the deer in particular are horrendous for any kind of cattle operation. They'll just go through and, and completely mow down and eat, pull, pull it all the way down to the roots. Fire risk. Yeah. And also once a fire burns through an area that then the deer disperse out into the ranch lands more.

And unless they've fenced those deer out with eight foot fencing or so, they're, they're just taking huge losses from the deer activity there.

So the, the, the program that wildlife has in effect where they're, they're getting money for tails as Haleakala has been really utilizing that to bring a lot of their deer numbers down and then putting money back into fencing so that they can exclude those animals and start to restore a lot of these paddocks that'll be better for cattle.

Job like. Is that fall under dofas, whose job is sort of dealing with that?

The wildlife program. Yeah. Through the emergency proclamation, has received a lot of funds for deer fencing where, like, Kula Ag park is a great example of a project that they've completed where they've excluded the deer from the Kula Ag Park.

And then the the money for tails is definitely starting to make an impact on the numbers, but it needs to continue because these animals reproduce prolifically. So.

Okay. I guess some questions then for Dave and Chelsea, if that's okay. Dave first. David sure. David.

Well, okay.

One question I had regarding the HYSC, and it's been a while since I've been on the council, is it always seemed like the process by which the money was put out was sort of in response to people putting in applications and then grants were given out, as opposed to, like, a more proactive approach of identifying what are the highest needs, you know, from the standpoint of what's causing the most harm.

What are, you know, people most concerned about? Has that changed? I think it's been a few years since I've been on the council.

Yeah. Mahalo for the question. Chelsea Arnott, Program support with the Hawai'I Invasive Species Council. And yes, you're very aware of the process we use, and it hasn't changed much. We do a competitive grant process, and from that process, we really do pull out what the priorities and the needs are because they shift every year.

We have new pest incursions, whether that's to Hawaii or spreading across the islands.

And so we really see those priorities come out in the applications and with our evaluation Committee, which is designated by representatives that are on the council, that are staff Members from those agencies that are on the council, that have expertise within the sector or that area.

So we really do have a broader overview of the issues that are impacting Hawaii in regards to invasive species. And our evaluation Committee is also aware of those priorities, and we try to make sure that the funding is really serving that.

Take, for example, in 2013, when we had coconut rhinoceros beetle detected here on Oahu, HISC funding really supported the initial efforts to support some of the staffing and needs that couldn't be covered by federal funding, like vehicles that we needed to go out and do the trapping efforts. So those priorities definitely come out through the process.

Do you think that it effectively prioritizes the sort of just need for ongoing work, like, for some of these species that will always need to be managed and they're not kind of new and exciting, and there's not a researcher at the University that wants to put an application in.

I mean, I guess these applications come from the committees of each island. But I mean, I know for Big island, it's proportionally underfunded compared to other islands just because of size. I assume that continues to be the case.

So I just am concerned that, like, that we should have a bigger discussion where, you know, people all get together and decide is always respond. I mean, we need to respond to the new things. We need to prevent new things from coming here.

But there's also A need for ongoing work on, you know, these things that have been around. Little fire ant on Big Island. Not just new outbreaks on other islands, but you know, the ongoing Koki frogs on Hawaii Island. And I'm sure my fellow Big Island representatives can relate. Yeah.

And even things like goats on Big Island, I mean, we're just constantly getting calls.

Yeah, agreed. And the Island Invasive Species Committees are really the ones that are partner organizations that are working on those longer term commitments to eradication of these pests.

So they're really working within the communities in the counties and with the different agencies on, you know, a lot of species that we don't see because they're being controlled and they're being managed. Like we don't have Miconia taking over the watersheds across the state.

We do have pockets of it on some of the islands where it is widespread. But because there's been these ongoing efforts by these committees for the last two decades, we don't see species like that taking over. And they are working the harder paths, like little fire ant, coconut, rhinoceros beetle.

That's a more interagency collaboration working really closely with Hawaii Department of Agriculture because these pests are really easily spread between the islands and even intra Island. And so HICC funding supports that existing management. And what we really want to do with additional funding is we do need to boost research.

Again, we've really kind of fallen off the radar with being able to truly support research. And we're seeing the impacts of that with not having the tools and technologies that could really help address the existing pests that are across the landscape on a larger level.

And for the ask for Hawai'I Ant Lab, which I'm glad to see the Department supporting instead of like another appropriation Bill here, is there. I mean, now that we're dealing with little fire ants more widespread than just Hawaii island, is there any thought about how to equitably use those funds?

Yes. So what I would really love to see is, and we've talked about, and it's highlighted in, we have an interagency biosecurity plan is institutionalizing some of these partner organizations because we're talking about these are, this is long term management. And these programs are every year, start at zero and have to find money year to year.

And the Hawaii Ant Lab is a prime example of not having consistent, stable funding to support their program. And they've been furloughed probably like three or four times over the last three years because of a lack of funding. So that funding is really Going to support most of their staff is stationed on Hawaii island in Hilo.

So that will support the staff that not only does extension work and trainings in Hilo because little fire ant is still a problem, even though it's widespread. That doesn't mean we don't want to manage it and communities don't want to figure out how to manage it. So they do that training.

But they also come to the other islands to help support larger scale infestations. And we do have staff here on Oahu, but it's two, I think it's like one and a half people right now. And we have over 70 infant stations on Oahu. So that is a huge issue.

So that funding would support more stable staff that can do the on the ground work, the training and continue the research.

Yeah, I guess I just see when we put funding in, I think it's a limited amount of funding. So you do want to prevent the spread to new areas where you can. And I understand that.

But I think if there's programs to help individual homeowners in areas at a certain point, then there has to be some thought about equity, you know, compared to people in Hilo or Kona that have been just paying these costs out of pocket.

Agreed, and that's a great point. And with the Hawaii Ant lab, they're starting to Institute a Community Action Program.

So in Kailua and Lanikai, where we've seen a huge amount of infestations of little fire ant, they're really training the community to be proactive, not only to treat their own properties, but to make sure their neighbors are treating their properties. Because if you just treat one property but you have infestations on this side, it doesn't matter.

You're infested with little fire ant and you're going to continue to be reinfested. So they're really utilizing the funding they have now and the staff they have now to expand the work.

And then that's in conjunction with the funding that Hawaii Department of Agriculture got for the RFPs that are going out for private pest control companies and working alongside those.

Okay, I don't want to take too much more time. We can go ahead. Do you have anything else, I guess for David? Thank you, Chelsea. Just I guess for a quick update, you know, there was the 30 by 30 initiative like many years ago and we've given funding to for watershed fencing, you know, year over year.

Like how far along, how is that coming along?

It's coming along well. And some islands say, for instance on Maui, we're over our 30%. So the goal, like was 30 by 30, right? 30% of the priority watersheds by 2030, Maui's already hit that target and it's above it. And then some of the other islands are more challenging, but they're all on track for doing that.

What I'm seeing is 22% of forests protected at this point. So we're at, you know, 2024. So we're definitely on track. One thing I always try to keep it in perspective, sets 30% of priority watersheds. It's not a lot and it's not all the watersheds.

So, you know, it's something that we need to be doing for a long time. And water's our most important resource, probably.

And the more fences you build, the more infrastructure you have to maintain. So how much of the budget that you're asking for, like, how does that get divided between fencing new areas and maintaining existing fences?

Yeah, that goes into some of that LNR 172 type of funding where we need ongoing operational funding. So right now we got the CIP funding to build fences. But like you say, as our infrastructure increases, our maintenance costs increase. And so having some ongoing operational funds to be able to manage those fences.

You know, there's managing fences, trees fall on them and whatnot, people cut them or, you know, things happen. And. And then there's also removal of ungulates and keeping up with that. So it's an ongoing process to keep the areas animal free.

So for the lump sum amounts in the budget, that's all towards new fencing projects. Just about in. Say again, the lump sum amounts in the budget for watersheds is for fencing projects, primarily new fencing.

It's in operating. zero, is it? What is that? Is that the fourth.

For CIP?

Is that an operating.

No, it's CIP, right?

That's the 5 million, right? Yeah, 5 million. 5 million, yeah. So it's all CIP. And so with CIP, we can do the initial removal, so we can fence and remove, but we can't do the ongoing, you know, when it gets into maintenance or, you know, ongoing operations, then we need operational.

And then I guess I'll just give you a chance because I know there was a comment earlier, I think, well taken, well intended about the sustainability of the Department. But I think, I guess in my view, and I'll phrase it as a question, so I guess, do you agree? But in my view, it's like these.

There aren't revenues coming back financially for protecting watersheds, but the revenues are, you know, in terms of maintaining a drinking water supply and all the ecosystem benefits that come from the watershed protection work. So I think it is going to be an ongoing need for the state to continue to Fund it year over year.

And any other kind of expectation just wouldn't really be realistic.

Well, so for instance, you know, the House passed or you know, helped push through a number of. You helped push through that funding a couple of years ago for the LNR 172 funding, which is the Forest and Resource Management. That funding that was $25 million a couple of years ago. Last year went down to 5.

But that 25 million, we had like over $50 million in requests from the division when I put it out. So we have this huge, there's a huge need and a lot. And so we applied that money to a number of different projects and a lot of those projects could take that money every year.

We could spend that money every single year. And so a lot of these things that we're seeing, we've just been under resourced. You know, we're seeing the issues with invasive species, we're seeing the issues with degradation of some of our watershed areas and you know, for instance, invasive species.

I think it's a lot more cost effective to put some money up front to control these things and make sure they don't spread than to have the economic impacts of what's going to happen if these things spread. And CRB is a good example of that. What if we have no palm trees on Waikiki Beach?

What's the economics of that? And so I think beyond just looking at agricultural impacts or natural resource impacts, we need to look at larger scale economic impacts and look at a lot of the. It's like changing the oil in your car.

Easier to change the oil in your car than wait for the engine to blow up and fix it. So a lot of these things, we just need to invest in things. And so when we're investing in watershed management, we're investing in water.

We have, you know, probably some of the best water, if not the best water in the world here in Hawaii. And yet we're sitting in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, you know, with no plan B.

You know, I mean, I guess reverse osmosis could be plan B, but that's very, you know, you're not going to get as good a quality and it's going to be very resource intensive to do that. So the most cost effective thing is going to be managing watersheds in that particular case.

But there is going to be an Ongoing investment.

I do appreciate your point, representative, about sustainability. People don't see the benefits, immediate benefits of watershed protection, but if we haven't been paying attention to Red Hill, Maui wildfire, droughts, climate change, I mean, I think we're seeing. And for D.

Leonard, quite frankly, we have the benefit of having all of the expertise in one Department from Mauka to Makai, that if we're not taking care of our watersheds, the water that flows down to the ocean is not going to take care of our coral reefs and everything in between.

So there's been a real coordinated effort that whenever we're looking at projects, we need to bring in all of those resources to make sure that we're looking at it in a sustainable. But it is hard to convey, effectively convey to the community sort of this notion of, you need to invest in this.

We need to grow trees, we need to put up fences. But we just. It's difficult for people who. You don't see the tangible benefits today, but it is, as David said, in an investment in our ability to continue to live here and drink water here. So I do appreciate your comment.

And very last question, if you'll indulge me. Goats. This is like a bit. Yeah. A bit personal. But whose job is it when there's just booming overpopulation to come help out? And I mean, it impacts. They move around. So it impacts state lands and private lands, but I mean, it impacts state lands, forests, but it's on roads.

They're destroying cultural resources. Down at Kiholo, for example, I've heard complaints. It's just. It has to be somebody's job, I think, to occasionally come in and cull, just like they do on the mainland for deer or things that's going on in Maui. I'm not saying eradicate.

I don't want to pick a fight with hunters or anything like that, but it's still just been ongoing for a while and there doesn't seem to be anyone who considers it their. Kuleana.

Yeah. So our authority is mostly to manage our own land and not the private lands, as we try to work with private landowners who try to assist. But, you know, we only. We have a significant amount of land in Hawaii and in Kona, but there's also significant amounts of other agency and private land.

So trying to get everybody on the same page in terms of both being concerned about it and being willing to invest in the issue. So back in the day, the ranchers would just do a roundup and run 10,000 goats into the ocean. We can't do that anymore. But that was more.

You had more of a contiguous type of landscape ranching. They understood the impacts. Now, some of the private landowners, you know, some of those lands, the issues with fire and whatnot, some of them are kind of fallow, not as actively used, not as actively managed.

They don't see the impacts from the goats directly, so they don't feel like investing in it. So it's a very good question. It's an ongoing issue. We have that goat task force. We've got a number of recommendations we're working on. But you're right, I mean, we haven't.

Seen much from that task force. I think they had a report that was do that never came in on time, so might be good to follow.

Task force got a report. Right.

I think we keep being told we're waiting for the final one.

I thought Reptirist got that done, but I think that. Okay, I'll check on that to see. But I agree with you. We should double down on how do we get the goat situation under control.

So I.

Our biggest issues also public health and safety impact. Right. Animals getting hit on the highway.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. Members, further questions. Madam Chair doesn't have anything. Representative Hydra.

Thank you. While we're talking about goats, I wanted to just share that in Hawaiian, the word for goat is cow. Seriously? Did you know that? To me, it's the funniest thing. It was like a historical anomaly where at some point the word got mistranslated. And so, yeah, it makes speaking Hawaiian a lot of fun.

I wanted to ask a couple of questions about actually building on what Chair Loewen is discussing about the economics of INA, and, which is, you know, Chair Chang, I understand that you just hired an economic development specialist.

And I was curious if the Department has thought about kind of attempts to quantify and to do some essentially ecosystem services accounting. Is that something that you've explored at all?

We haven't. Because that is a really good question about the quantification of especially impacts when we're talking about climate change, ecosystem, what we can do in dollars with the impact of like erosion, loss of. But I don't. At least I'm not aware of a particular quantification.

Okay.

Other than on my own that was issued.

Yeah. And there's so much new thinking at the United nations level and at organizations like CI about what ecosystem services, the incredible value that they provide. And we have $115 billion economy that rests on our ability to have drinking water.

And so anyways, I just want to kind of show my hand a little bit that in terms of policy for the Legislature, I'm interested in encouraging the Department to apply that sort of approach, especially for conversations around things like the military leases.

You know, we're currently leasing out these incredibly valuable lands for a dollar, and I'm really interested in how we can, you know, sort of adjust our economic thinking about the value of those lands and also the cost of things like cleanup.

The cleanup of those lands, which we know we're going to have to do at some point, whether whenever the leases are pow, that's going to be incredibly expensive. And, you know, for Mr.

Nohoa PI from Kirk, you know, we don't have to talk about it today, but, you know, this is certainly something that the Department has thought about. Right?

Is like if we had the right amount of resources years ago when Kahoolawi was turned over to Hawaii to the state, you know, we might be in a very different position now. Right. If there had been enough investment in the cleanup. But continuing on the economic piece. Can I ask, Ms.

Aronat, am I saying that right, Chelsea, to come back up for a second. Thank you.

Thank you very much. My question is about the way that the State of Hawaii is pursuing its procurement of private contracts for the invasive species work. My understanding is that AG and DLNR are both kind of working in parallel. Is that right?

And my question is, are we leveraging the ability for the State of Hawaii to be the monopsony buyer, you know, the single largest buyer of services for invasive invasive species management and instead of splitting out the contracts, going for big procurements where we can essentially use our, our power as the biggest buyer to lower the cost of those procurements?

Yeah, that's a great question, Chelsea Arnott, Program Support for the Hawaiian Invasive Species Council. It'll be a bit challenging for me to answer on behalf of Hawai'i Department of Agriculture. The funding that came through Act 231 that they put out for RFPs, they're in control of that process and I'm not sure how they want to leverage.

All I can speak to is that we are working in parallel. Department of Land and Natural Resources administers the Hawaii Invasive Species Council, which supports these partner organization under the University of Hawaii, like the Island Invasive Species Committee in Hawai'I Ant Lab that are on the ground working on little fire ant.

So they need to be working in parallel with Hawai'I Department of Agriculture and these private pest control companies to ensure we're not duplicating, you know, doing the same residences, doing the same communities, and also ensuring that these private pest control companies know the system and the protocols to have effective treatments in the future.

Can we kind of enhance that and see how it would be? Because I forget what the numbers were. I think it was around.

I'm going to botch it up, but I want to say it was maybe around 50 residents that the private pest control companies are going to be contracted out on Oahu to take care of with those RFPs.

And in the future we could maybe there could be an increase in that just seeing how those pest control companies do it. But they're more expensive. We did a cost estimate compared to Oahu Invasive Species Committee doing some of this work compared to the private pest control company. And it's about 60% more like doing it per acre.

So it's just more expensive. But like you're saying, that's a good point to bring down the cost with larger contracts.

Thank you. Thanks for your consideration of that strategy. I guess one more question for Chair Chang is relating to actually two things, if I could. You had mentioned really briefly that you're looking at abolishing the land court. And that sounds great. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Well, I should say we're beginning conversations about. Because it is antiquated, we are only one of two states that do it. It exposes the state at risk because we're guaranteeing title. Much of our backlog is with land court documents.

So we are beginning to have conversations with various stakeholders, whether they're with title companies, large landowners, but beginning to open the question up. What is the viability? How many people? Because when we have state land, we're for many of our lands that are in land corporate, but we're actually trying to deregister them because it is very cumbersome.

Right. So. But I think we recognize this is a long time. There's. I'm not aware of any proposed legislation, but I think there is. We're wanting to start the conversation. So whether there becomes a resolution for a task force, I think that's just where we're at right now is I've been willing to say it out loud.

I think there have been others who've been thinking about it for a long time. But I am willing to entertain that. But I'd like to get the temperature check on the broader community. So sort of this announcement in our budget briefings has been a way to sort of, kind of.

Because we haven't publicly announced it, but there have been smaller talk stories.

I think this counts as publicly announcing it.

No, that's what I figured. So I'll see how many, you know, what kind of response I.

Okay. And the last thing I want to ask you, Chair, is relating to the Public Land Trust Inventory. You know, this is one of the biggest problems that hinders our ability to really deal with, you know, Office of Hawaiian Affairs, our obligation to appropriately Fund the Office of Hawaiian Affairs.

And I'm curious what progress DLNR has made with the PLT inventory.

We do. We have a public land trust. We have the pltis. It was pursuant to Legislature to. So we have. We believe that this system is accurate. The challenge is each of the departments, they account for their own revenue and what they deposit, we just receive it and then we put it into an annual report.

We don't audit of any of the reports that are submitted by other departments. But I think so I have asked oha. I think there's a perception that our inventory system is not accurate. But so I think we have been. There's a. There's a PLT working group which both Ryan and I sit on. There's three Members of the.

Of the State, three Members of oha and I do believe that we are coming in. We, you know, to address whether it's perception or the reality. But I think we are trying to seek funds to. Whether it's an audit or whether it's doing a new system that is being proposed.

While we believe it's accurate, while we believe there is a good identification of all, if there is a community perception that it's not, there may be. OHA and this working group did consider coming to the Legislature for some funds. LTIs or DO.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, chair.

Okay, thank you very much for other questions.

Just a quick one for Kurt, please. Just wait until he sat down again.

I don't know if I can do. A quick one, though.

You and me both. So two things. Just a quick update on Hapuna, where we're at. I know the water system. I didn't, you know, you have a 2.6 million line item for various park improvements, and that's a big spread. And I just wondered where we're at on the water system. Cabin renewals, concessions, parking attendant.

Okay, I'll break it down. The water system, which, as you know, was a huge debacle for us. I think we had over 300 breaks in the water system the past couple years. And we were able to, with the help of the Administration, got a real quick contractor to come in way under price to put in the temporary.

So we restored service to that water system. We're currently getting close to finishing the CIP for the new permanent one. And the CIP that we had done over a decade ago, I think we got some bad pipes. The Driscoll pipes just didn't hold up. The county had this. Yeah. Yeah.

And so that's why the lifespan of that water system decayed way before, you know, its performance measure. So the water system is stable. We got that almost powder. We're working on the cabin renovations. Cause we know those are really important assets for our General public, you know, our residences as well as our visitors.

So we're redoing those cabins. There's a new water system that will be placed next to those cabins there. So those are gonna undergo renovation. That part currently generates revenue, but the revenue we generate. And I don't have the. I'm not as well prepared as I was for rep. Kitagawa on this one.

The lifeguard contract costs more, I think, than the revenue we generate. The lifeguard contract that we have with Hawaii County, I want to say it's like over a mil for Hapuna, and that's critical. You know, we have these five lifeguard contracts. We don't have state lifeguards. Hapuna is one of those that we need, you know, county lifeguards.

So the operating expense of the lifeguards really offsets the income, but the income helps cover those costs. So we have a concession there and right now that's a stable concession. We're not looking at expanding, you know, anything in that regard. We have the guys collecting the funds, the parking lot is sufficient.

We're looking at maybe over at Wailea some other improvements to roadways and whatnot. But once we get the water system done and then we start, you know, finish up those cabins, Hapuna is what I would consider POW in terms of that investment as we move on to other state park projects.

Okay, great. Thank you for that update. Just for others, Hapuna is 60 miles away from Hilo, my district. But it's where everybody in east Hawaii, it's the go to spot.

Yeah, it's the best beach. Yeah, yeah.

And then another thing, you know, for the lower like Mahayoulas. Other lower, maybe other. There's a couple, Mahukona and Lapakahi. It's these lower visited places in places like New Zealand and I've seen it elsewhere and I'm drawing a blank. But the use of QR codes and parking nowadays is super efficient.

And that way you can just have one person rotate around and check to see if the license plate like they literally drive by and see if the license plates. There's not even getting out. There's no checking. It's very, very automated. It's very efficient. And if you didn't pay, then you just get a ticket, Right?

Well, you know, when I went to the conference with all the other state park administrators, you can imagine how we got hit up by those companies. There is a plethora of those companies and the tech is great.

As a matter of fact, we're looking at transitioning our Ka Point State park permit from a sticker on a bumper to a license reading technology for our law enforcement to determine if somebody has, you know, the permit or not. La Paya is a. Is a great example. Example.

It's one of my favorite parks and it's a jewel of cultural.

Yeah, yeah, don't go there, don't go there. But it's a jewel of cultural history. Patronage is Low. I kind of like that, you know, given its sensitivity. So it's a double edged sword as I mentioned earlier, for us to invest and have staff. You Need a certain economy of scale of revenue.

Say it out loud.

And I've been asked by the community on the west side of this island to consider a model for Makua and Kiava Ula that's comparable to Haena. And I say you don't want 3,000 people a day out here or 2,000.

Those models work at the high patronage parks, the sleepy little parks that are performing well that don't really have capacity to generate income. The Diamond Heads and the Waianapa Napas and the E Owls and Kokei, those will be the revenue generators that we spread out to the smaller parks that we just.

Just want to keep the volume down. But we are looking at new tech and it's, it's almost daunting how different, how many different types are available for this type of collection.

Okay, yeah, that was just. My point is just the slower places, that way you have a way to not have staff there. Yeah, it could just be an audit.

It could be, you know, voluntary, I guess. I mean, I've found out not to throw aspersions on the visitor industry, but the visitors can be real sneaky in terms of, you know, paying or not paying. But we're evolving, you know, we're getting there 11 park at a time.

But we are looking at new tech that will make it all easier because the cell phones have changed everything. Sure.

And if I can just add to that, we also have this consolidated website that we're hoping to utilize that website. So on this website you can get, you can access all of our permits, licenses and permits, whether they're from state parks Doef. It is everything that Dalen has.

So we're trying to move into phases 3 and 4, which will also position us to utilize, like you said, QR codes or other kinds of technologies to better manage, but also to gather better data about the capacity. So we.

So I think through that system we're going to be able to better manage our resources by knowing what's the, you know, who's going there if they're, you know, if they can't get a parking or they can't get a reservation at Diamond Head, are they overflowing to other places and where are they going?

So I think we're hoping to use that website for multiple purposes, but it's also a way to donate too. So we're looking at putting a donate button on every single page that you can donate to.

Nobody here knows about that. Okay, well, thank you. I appreciate that. You've been doing a great job at State Parks. I'm super Grateful as they've really improved in the last 15 years. My other question was regarding invasive species. We were talking about that, and I know that, and it may not be. It might be.

This gentleman here from the Department of Forestry is regarding the Walkovia mosquito infected and then the pua, the pig contraceptive. And I know there's this friction between public input and invasive species. And I know. Were you thwarted in Maui from releasing the Walcovia or however you pronounce that. Wabakia. Wabakia. Thank you. Mosquito because of public input?

No. So sorry, I didn't introduce myself earlier. David Smith. I'm the administrator with the Division of Forestry and Wildlife. No, Wolbachia. We've gone through all the compliance and all the public review. We got really strong support from the public for doing that. There was a small group that was suing us about. That was what made the news.

But no, we're releasing it on Maui. Zero, far out. Yeah. And we're trying to ramp that up to both Maui and Kauai. Okay. We've got several species of birds. The Kiwikiu or Maui Parrotbill is, you know, on the verge of extinction over there. So we're really racing to do that. But no, that's. That program is currently underway.

Okay, good. And then the pig contraceptive, you know, on Hawaii Island, pigs, goats and sheep are just wrecking shop. And so I know there was that same friction with public input and I just wondered if there was any progress.

Or there was some concern on the pig contraception thing from hunters. We are not utilizing that particular product. We've done research on contraceptives with other problematic species like pigeons that are getting over, you know, people are feeding pigeons, they're just everywhere and causing health nuisance and trying to use contraceptives.

And it seemed like, you know, animals are outbreeding the contraceptive basically. Like, it's really hard because you got ingress, you got ingress in your population. Right. So. So there's a population with ingress, but you have some contraceptive thing going on in there. But your ingress was swamping the efficacy.

And because of a lot of the other issues and concerns from the public, we haven't gone that route. I think direct access, public hunters provide a great service in terms of controlling feral animals.

And I think the first thing to do is just open areas up to year round, daily hunting and then see where you're at from there.

And then look at more aggressive control measures either with incentivizing hunters, trapping programs, you know, staff work we go all the way to aerial shooting if we have to, you know, in certain really high sensitive areas. For the most part, our first line of defense is year round daily public hunting.

And then after that, then we reassess to see what else needs to be done to protect whatever resources are at risk from the animals. We do understand there's a two edged. It's kind of a two edged sword. You know, they're popular hunting animals. They're also very destructive in a lot of areas.

And so, you know, both for residential and for agricultural. And so we try to balance that.

Thank you.

No further questions. Chair. Thank you, Chair Hashem. zero, he left. Okay. I guess he'll come back later. Okay, Members, any further questions? Okay, he came back. Sorry. Go ahead.

Shipti. So last year we toured Makena on Maui, right? The Ocean Reserve, you guys are doing repairs to that site. And Shipti was involved and they had to. The site, the Ocean Preserve, the historic historical site is right on the water. But they had to do an AIs for the whole Ahupuaa. Can you explain that?

Why is that?

I'm not familiar with that project in. Particular, off the top of my head. I will say that for projects that. Are located in potentially cultural sensitive areas. We'Ll request what's called a literature review and field inspection for the entire ahupuaa. But AISs are typically limited to the impacted area of where the project is going to be located.

Like, particularly if there's going to be any ground disturbance. So I can follow up with Dr. Lebo and the Archeology Board branch to. Get more information on that.

Okay.

The only reason I can think of in the McKenna area, there's been. It's a highly sensitive area, but I think, like Jessica said, it seems very unusual to have requested an AIs. Rather than speculating, Jessica will follow up and provide you information on that.

Okay. I just wanted to know how is that going? Because we toured that last year.

Okay. Okay.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you for the questions, Members. Okay, thank you. We still have to do Kirk and Monica, but, you know, before you go, I think, you know, the Legislature in General appreciates the work you're doing.

You know, it is the purview of this Committee or the responsibility of this Committee to figure out how we're going to address many of your needs. As you know, two years ago we tried to give you additional funding, which I still believe is important, but those kind of infusions of cash for government is cyclical.

So we are moving into a flat cycle. The Only thing kind of holding us up right now as far as our economy is construction. You know, there are things happening in the construction industry is doing well.

But tourism as we know, you know, we don't know what's going to happen with Japan now that we had the LA wildfires that as you know, tourism, a large part of them come from California. So revenue may be affected that way going forward. We got to make choices, right?

So at the end of the day, and we've had this discussion in the past, I believe that the impact of climate change is where I believe the priority should be and what we should be putting to the prevention.

I think that's where the choices come, where we're going to put resources and how we're going to do things like that and then how we finance. Right.

So for example, the discussion earlier with parks and the $2 million rock mitigation and you know, those kind of different things that it be cash, it could be, well it could be cip, it could be, we could use mechanism and you know, this is something that I've been thinking about for a while.

It's like, okay, so we are, there is a cap constitutionally of how much we can float in General obligation bonds, but that's based upon using General funds to pay debt service. But if we use special funds to pay debt service and then we could use. Right.

It's expensive for you to do your own revenue bonds just for a small project like that. But we could do a reimbursable go where it comes out of that and then we could pay those kind of projects over time and be able to do more. That's possible.

So how we finance and how we move forward on certain things, even our office is having conversations with dobar on, you know, I've always believed that they're as far as recreational uses, that it is a responsibility of the state.

But once it becomes commercial and that's the gray area of who should be paying and I believe that because it's commercial, similar to commercial harbors, it should be user funded. How to draw that line and how to make that work.

I think it's going to be difficult going forward, but we're going to throw a Bill out to deal to start that conversation and how to figure out those kind of things. But at the end of the day we have all these challenges and it comes down to how are we going to Fund it.

So we want to continue to work with you going forward and we thank you for your presentation.

Thank you very much Chair. And we've taken very seriously your recommendations to us both also represent Kitagawa about where we can generate more revenues through our own uses. We are trying to do that. So I look forward to continuing working with the House on those to matter. So thank you very much for this opportunity.

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you for waiting. We'll bring up Kahola.

Okay, thank you very much. Chair and Members of the Finance Committee. My name is Mike Naholpi. I'm the Executive Director for the Kaholawe Island Reserve Commission. And for those who. For a quick summary of our history. 10 years ago, we were operating with no state funding.

We were living off the residual trust Fund that was established from the Navy cleanup on the island. But working with this Committee and the rest of the Legislature for the past decade, we were able to establish not only our own program ID but to have core baseline funding for our operations.

And those two years ago, we're able to increase that. So that's why I'm not asking for any operating money this year and to establish 16 full time personnel for Kaho'olawe. Right now we use the manpower and the funding to focus on the core efforts of Kahoolawe and the infrastructure.

So our boat operation, we run the boats going back and forth. We maintain the infrastructure on the island. We have a base camp, we generate electricity, we generate our own water on the island. We have our own infrastructure and road repair. We utilize the state funding for that.

And then we seek grants and federal funding to do the actual program restoration by plants, by soil amendments, by equipment. We're running about 300,000 to maybe 500,000 in grant money. Not all one time, but, you know, we're kind of managing that under our belts.

So this year the only thing that we're really focusing on is we want to be able to make our own money. We are statutorily prohibited from any commercial activities on Kaholawe. But we have an eight acre property, oceanfront next to Kihei that we use as our base yard on one corner of it.

And for years we've been asking for funding to build our education community center, restoration learning center there. In addition to consolidating all our staff in one building. Because we're located in a bunch of different spots all over Maui.

We can also, we want to house our exhibits and museum pieces that we have to be able to document the story of, you know, Native Hawaiians fighting against the big government to get Kahoolawi restored to honor the people that came before us, that gave their lives for the return of the island and for the long term, sacrifices like Dr.

Amada Luli, what he has done for the island. And then also to create this hub where indigenous resource management can be. We can collaborate, we can feature, we can promote, and also to generate money. Right next door is the Kihei Small Boat Harbor. We did a headcount.

Over 200 or 300 people come off those dive cruises to Molokini at 10 o'clock in the morning, cold, wet and hungry.

I will have food and hot beverages and $25 or at least $25 covers to tour our museum, to learn about our history, to learn about indigenous restoration efforts that we have been doing and our work cleaning up military ranges. Because I think we're the only agency that actually works on restoration of military lands, former military lands.

And I think we're the only guys that are actually working on a bombing range, planting with unexploded ordinance, you know, in the area. And we've been doing it for 20 years.

We have a lot of people are coming to us to learn how to do these things that we do on these barren military properties, working with unexploded ordinance. So that's another thing that we can get federal funding and featuring it. We are actually working with the Maui Ocean center.

If you ever get a chance to go to Maui. We have about a thousand feet square feet of exhibition space that we work with them. It's a model of what our museum is going to look like inside. So we have exhibits and they're giving us part of the proceeds.

And we have an agreement that they will anchor one end of that Maui strip and we will anchor the other end. So we will jointly do ticketing and pricing. So this request is for phase two. Phase one was ready funded a few years back. We got conceptual designs that we did.

Our first permits were able to be accomplished. Phase two looks at completing the permit process to do construction drawings and to do some construction work. Right now to expand our boathouse, to put a pavilion and conversation. We have no bathrooms at the site, so put some infrastructure. This request was in our CIP request.

It didn't get picked up into the administration's budget. So we're hoping there's any CIP money left around. We were surprised last year when Wham added the funding in when we didn't ask for it. So this year we're actually asking for it. So hopefully there's anything left over.

We get some money and then our goal is to continue working on this project so that we can start generating Our own revenue. It's in one of the hottest development area tourism areas. So there's a lot of potential to make revenue.

And then it also lessens the burden for us to have to keep coming to you guys for funding. We'll be able to generate some of our own operating funds for the place. That's pretty much it. Any questions?

Thank you very much. Members will open up to questions. And by the way, there's no such thing as leftover cip.

You gotta hope every year. You know me, right? Because I started last year with. Once again, Mike is back at the Legislature asking for money.

Okay, Representative Bush, followed by Kirigawa.

Thank you for coming in. I love what you've been doing, your work and your ideas here. Do you have any ideas or do you have any conceptual revenue streams or budgets? And then any idea what all your lease consolidation, if you were able to move into this facility, you know, if you subtracted all those leases.

Because you mentioned everybody's dispersed around in different places.

Yes. So part of this next phase of funding in our planning is actually to develop the economic model and the economic projections. But for a lease consolidation, it's about over $120,000 of lease that we pay right now because we have the rent space on Maui because there's not enough government space on Maui.

So it's about 120 a year. And then also, I did a quick calculation. Two to 300 people a day are coming off those boats. If we can keep them there in the Kihei area instead of dispersing back to somewhere else. Actually, there's nowhere else to go.

Nowadays at maybe say $25 a head, we're doing just 52 weeks, five days a week, count the holidays, probably 1.2 mil somewhere in that neighborhood. You know, that revenue generation, not including, let's say, our cafe, art museum, gallery stuff. Right. Right now we.

We try to, you know, we have a target of like about $50,000 a year that we raise from donors. And, you know, and people are donating money to us with very little benefits.

Right now with the museum and having that facility available, having discount rates like just like Bishop Museum has for Members, giving them some benefit, we can increase that membership quality. So that's also another area. In the past few years, we've been kind of Low on the donors. People are having a hard time with money.

But yeah, there is some serious funding available. And it also introduces funding, introduces another revenue source for tax base in the Kihei area that is not either the food concession or it's Actually a tourist attraction or someplace people can go to and stay in the Kihei area.

And offset, since Lahaina right now is not generating revenue, we can be generating some revenue to help Maui County with fun with their tax base and stuff.

Okay, so about 1.2 plus another 120k. So 1.3 somewhere that they were hopefully.

Yeah.

And I couldn't find your ask what was the total?

We didn't get it. It's not in the budget. Okay, so we asked for it, but it's in that column not approved. Okay. Yeah. And what was it? One, one a quarter? Four and a quarter million? Four and a quarter. Yeah, that's face. Next phase. Yeah.

Okay, thank you so much.

Yeah, yeah. Zero, that was your question. Okay, for any further questions. Hey, Representative.

Just real quick, just to make sure, Michael. So the, the, the way that Kirk is statutorily constructed, you can absorb those, those additional funds coming in from tourists, etc?

Yes. We can't generate them on Kaho Lobby because we're prevented. But I can do whatever I want. I can generate as much money I can make at Kihei. Okay. And I have a trust Fund, so I can just directly take those funds in. Yeah. Thank you. Yep.

Okay, thank you for the question, Members. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, next is Monica. 2 of you coming. Okay.

Good morning, Mr. Chair, Madam Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. Life is always great when you have a Nahopi around. And I've had the pleasure of working with his brother. In the way of history. Back In July of 2022, Act 255 was signed into law.

Mr. DeFries, maybe just introduce yourselves to the Committee then which created the.

Zero, I'm sorry. John De Fries, Executive Director, Mauna Kea Stewardship and Oversight Authority.

Okay, thank you.

In the way of history, back in July 2022, Act 255 was signed into law, thus creating the Mauna Kea Authority.

That started in July 1st of 2023, which triggered a 60 month or 5 year clock in which the authority would build capacity and incrementally start to assume total management control over the summit of the mountain and the mid level Halepuaku campus.

We are in the 19th month of that 60 month cycle when the authority was established and with the support of Legislature, 14 million annually was embedded and serves as a recurring Fund. At that time, our board chair, John Comedji was functioning as the lead Executive as well. And John, I'll have you provide some background as well.

Good morning. John Comedji. Chair of the Mauna Kea Authority Back when we made our initial requests, we had asked the University of Hawaii currently has about 50 some odd people working on the Mauna. We figured that it costs them annually between 7 and $8 million to Fund that operation currently.

So what we did is that we then also assumed that we needed to hire certain types of consultants to help us with the master plan, attorneys, et cetera. And we asked for the $14 million knowing that we may or may not transfer those 55 people over in any particular year.

But the reason for the request and the continuing ask is that we. It's a new, it's a new framework for all of us. You know, the state has not created a new state agency in years and the road that we're facing with Mauna Kea is somewhat uncharted.

So we asked to have the flexibility that in case we needed to bring over some or all of the employees, that we be given the opportunity and the ability to bring those people over if necessary.

And this Committee and the rest of the Legislature saw fit to give us that the money that we didn't use would then lapse. If we didn't use, the money would then lapse. So there's no really harm to, to the state. So we have continued to make their requests for the first time. You'll see that we've actually.

This is the first session where I actually have employees. The past two sessions it was. With. The help of, but I had the help of other authority Members, but we really didn't have employees. And working through some of the requirements of state government have been somewhat challenging. But now we have employees. We have three employees.

We're thinking about how we incrementally bring over some of the University of Hawaii employees without disrupting their operations, and yet at the same time providing the necessary support we have to build. And we can talk in response to any questions about the very complicated.

I tell people that I've done a lot of really interesting things in my life, but this is the most complicated thing that I've ever done in my life, the most complicated by far.

And we're not even talking about addressing some of the more challenging issues that we're faced with, but just, just standing up a new state agency and trying to understand how that is. And actually not only standing up the agency, but transferring people over from another agency is very, very challenging.

But we appreciate the support that all of you have given us. We know that we did a tour for some of you, the Finance Committee a few years Back we welcome, you know, renewed interest and tour and give you more information.

Thank you. Okay, Members, questions represent kush.

Any answers?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you gentlemen for coming out today. Of course, this is, you know, maybe one of the biggest issues in East Hawaii. And on your shoulders lies the future of either becoming pool boys and lawn boys for future part time residents or a thriving technology field.

And on our island there's a big base and there's a lot of concern that in the next 41 months, if it's not brought together, that if just one of the big telescopes leaves, you know, decides there's not a future, that then the smaller telescopes will be shouldered with all those costs and they won't be able to afford it.

And they're, you know, there's just so many headwinds. I don't need to tell you guys, you know, you're living it.

And I just wondered, you know, with three employees on, after 19 months and I know, and I'm, I don't know all the headwinds you're facing, but I know a lot of them, you know, how confident do you feel we're going to get it all together in 41 months and be able to start writing leases or renewing leases for the existing.

Not talking about any future expansion, just existing leases.

I feel pretty confident about being able to do that now, whether we're able to solve all of the pressing issues, I'm confident that we will be able to build infrastructure and create the state agency that we're required to do and absorb the people from the University of Hawaii and manage the model.

Now, some of the more delicate issues I think is something that we have to resolve. Part of our plan is in addressing the astronomy framework is to, it has to be part of an overall vision, right? You cannot just take the issue of renewal of leases, decommissioning TMT separately.

The first issue that has to be addressed is what is the carrying capacity? What, what does the authority believe the carrying capacity of the Mauna is?

And the planning process hopefully starts that issue, discussion of that issue, and then part and parcel of that, the next step, and it's kind of all mixed together is, okay, if this is a carrying capacity, what is the decommissioning? Who gets decommissioned, how do we set up new leases?

And then finally the issue of TMT all gets kind of all put together. But we do anticipate being able to get all of that going.

One of the challenges, that's not, I guess, not a real, Let me back up one of Our Members have coined this phrase that we can only proceed as fast as we can, develop trust.

And as all of you know, developing trust with a new process, new people, is something that you have to go at a fairly slow pace because you cannot rush trust.

So part of what we're trying to do now is to develop trust and have people understand who we are as the monarchy authority, who we are personally, not necessarily what our beliefs are. But we've been having community meetings to introduce ourselves so people feel a little bit more assured about who we are and what we're doing.

The ability to actually do stuff is a little harder, but I feel pretty good about being able to reach those within the five year period. The leases, you know, don't expire to 2033.

But we understand as a group that the lack of certainty by any of the particular observatories in terms of whether they get renewed or not impedes their ability to attract funds, attract grants, et cetera.

So we understand that there's an urgency to start addressing the issues because their economic future is in jeopardy if they can't go to a grantee and say, I'm going to be around in 2034. We get that.

But it's the balancing of that developing trust, developing trust with the Native Hawaiian community about who we are, that's all being put together. And that's the complexity.

Yeah, no, balancing the cultural aspects and then the global reach of astronomy is the central issue here. And yeah, I just. My concern and many constituents in my district and throughout Hilo, you know, is that timeline and you know, it's a delicate dance. I mean, I don't even know. It's really tough.

So I just wanted to get your perspective on that.

We just submitted a report 30 days prior to the session. And if you look at our report, we actually included way more than most report. We actually have created a timeline or a chart and it's included in a report all of the major tasks that we think that have to be undertaken.