Senate Standing Committee on Water and Land

Calling to order the Joint Committee on Laser Means and Waterland. So this morning we'll have a budget presentation from Department of Land and Natural Resources. Good morning.

Aloha mai kākou. Hello to Chairs Dela Cruz, Inouye, and Vice Chairs Moriwaki and Elefante, and Members of the Senate Ways and Means Committee, and Senate Committee on Water and Land. My name is Dawn Chang. I am Chair of the Board of Land and Natural Resources and Chair of the Commission on Water Resource Management.

I'd also like to introduce DLNR's leadership team, First Deputy Ryan Kanaka'ole and Ciara Kahahane, Deputy of the Water Commission. Also seated at the table this morning is Cynthia Gomez, DLNR's administrative services officer, and Dina Lau, Acting Chief Engineer.

Seated behind me are the administrators for DLNR, and I would like to introduce them in the order of their LNR ID. If you could please stand when I call your name. LNR 101, Russell Tsuji, Land Management Division. LNR 101, Michael Cain, Office of Conservation and Coastal Lands. Also, I think we have Leah also. Yeah, Very Good.

Thank you. LNR 111, Hannah Domingo, with the Bureau of Conveyances. LNR 141 and 810, Dina Lau, with Engineering, LNR 401, Brian Nielsen, Division of Aquatic Resources, LNR's 172, 402, 407 and 804. David Smith, Division of Forestry and Wildlife. LNR 404, Ciara Kahahane, with Water Resource Management. LNR 405, Jason Redulla, Division of Conservation and Resource Enforcement.

LNR 801, Meghan Statts, Division of Boating and Ocean Recreation. LNR 802, Jessica Puff, State Historic Preservation Division. LNR 806, Curt Cottrell, State Parks and LNR 906, Alice Schutte, Human Resources. LNR 906, Lila Loos, IT. LNR 906, Cynthia Gomez, Administrative Services Officer. LNR 906, Hua Ayu. And who is not present with us is LNR 906,

Dan Dennison with Communications. I'd also like to present today the administrators to several of the agencies that are administratively attached to DLNR. LNR 908, Michael Naho'opi'i, with Kaho'olawe Island Reserve Commission and LNR 909, John De Fries, Executive Director of the Monarch Stewardship oversight authority. LNR 907 is Leimana DaMate, and I'm sorry, she's not here today.

Her husband passed away last week and she is. She notified us that she won't be here. So, mahalo for this opportunity to provide a briefing of DLNR's budget to the Senate Ways and Means and the Waterland Committee. Welcome back. I'd like to provide a brief outline of our presentation.

I will be providing an overview of DLNR's mission, goals and highlights of our proposed budget request for biennium FY26-27 operational and CIP budgets through the PowerPoint slides, which you should have received in advance of this hearing. Then we'll proceed with answering any questions the Committee Members may have regarding our proposed budget.

After DLNR's presentation, we would like to set aside at least 15 minutes to provide an opportunity for Curt and Maunakea Authority to present their proposed budget and answer questions. So with that, I'm going to move on to our presentation.

DLNR's mission it is to enhance, protect, conserve and manage Hawaii's unique and limited natural, cultural and historic resources held in public trust for the current and future generations of the people of Hawaii Nei and its visitors, in partnership with others from the public and private sectors.

DLNR's Fiscal, Fiscal Year 26-27 Budget Summary. Our goal is to have sufficient capacity and financial resources to manage our 1.3 million acres of land and 3 miles of ocean waters and all resources in between that fall under DLNR's jurisdiction. Our budget is based upon the following strategies:

1. To address staffing capacity, we're implementing multiple strategies to effectively deal with our staff vacancies, recruitment and retention. 2. To fund backlog repair and deferred maintenance, especially at small boat harbors and state parks to better serve our users and to assess appropriate fees.

3. To provide sufficient capacity to enhance wildfire readiness, protection of endangered species, and control invasive species to serve our goal of protecting cultural and natural resources. 4. To increase our Base General Fund, General operational funds to attract federal matching funds and, most importantly, to fulfill our mission in public trust duties. And 5. To increase special fund ceilings to allow divisions to utilize user fees to provide support to our facilities and support the Department.

This is a summary of a deal in our staffing we have 1,100 FTE and 49 part time. This is on table 3. We have a vacancy rate of 24%, which is 3% down from last year and this is on table 11. Our recruitment efforts in FY 2024 resulted in 200 recruitments and we filled 208 positions.

I'd like to take a little time to describe a new process our HR Department has instituted to address staffing recruitment. Last year through legislative support, our additional and for additional staffing for HR.

Mahalo to you for that; and cooperation with DHRD and buy-in from our departments, we have successfully begun process of transitioning external service recruitments that has previously been conducted by DHRD to be assumed by DLNR HR. This is known as delegated recoupments. Through this process we have been able to do the following: 1.

To date, the number of positions approved for delegated recruitment include 48 positions. Combined with our exempt positions, DLNR is approved to conduct 167 total delegated recruitments which is 14.53% of its position count. We have 14 divisions participating in delegated recruitment, civil service and exempt efforts, which demonstrates the department's wide impact of this initiative.

This initiative has impacted recruitment efforts in the following ways: Data from our civil service delegated recruitments thus far have found that the time this time was reduced by half - to 130 days, four months or and 10 days.

We believe that time and experience, our comfort level and understanding of recruitment platform systems will improve and decrease this time even further.

To further highlight our staff's success with transition to delegated recruitment, on average, our team was able to craft and post a position specific job announcement within 30 days of the information being provided by the division and review applications within 13 days of job announcement, closing or application being submitted. Our job announcements are tailored towards the specific positions.

It includes position specific job duties. A project description is attached, position description is attached, visual aids are included, a point of contact for the Department is included, and these have yielded enough interest to a qualified pool of candidates.

While this task takes time and investment up front, time is saved on the applicant's part as they only apply for jobs for which fit their employment interests and skill set. And the division receives a list of qualified applicants who are truly interested in that specific job request.

Over time, we look forward to increasing the number of positions that will be eligible for the delegated recruitment process. Next is our budget operational budget summary, which is on table two.

Excuse me, chair.

Yes.

Because we're on the vacancy. Can I just ask a question regarding vacancies then? Or you'll see.

This your summary? Yeah.

Yeah.

This is just the summary.

Or her intro.

Yeah.

Okay.

So. Well, we do have Alice who can answer questions when.

Okay. Well, my question is. Thanks for the table 11.

Okay.

With that said. And I'm glad that I'm glad we're filling the position. But I noticed that under the salary, actual salary, there's quite a bit of agencies that it says never filled. So is it never filled? There's quite a few. And in General, table 11.

Okay.

And I think it's referring to almost all the agencies or several that probably perhaps unsuccessful applications or whatever.

So rather than me trying to. I think it might be more appropriate, Alice, if you could come up.

If. If someone can just say it's because they are in the process, that's fine.

So I think we've identified where. Where some of them have never been filled. If they've been longer vacancies, we're agreeing to eliminate them. But, Alice, if you can address the question.

Yeah.

Good morning. Alice Schutte, DLNR HR Officer. So in some cases, you will see that they have yet to be established. In some cases, they're already in recruitment.

Okay.

And being worked on. So we just haven't had an incumbent in the past. And that's why the last salary is showing. Never felt.

Okay. All right. That's fine for now. And later on we can deal with it during Committee hearings.

Okay, thank you.

Who establishes.

Excuse me. The divisions initiate and then we work with them to establish.

Okay.

Yeah.

Did you guys have a timeline for that then?

We do. And it is based on the division's priorities, and some are pending reorg. Like, we have a large percentage where reorganization is required per bnf, and those take time. So they're at various stages. Yeah. If you're looking at a specific position number, we can look to see what's happening.

No, not today. We can do it.

But I'll give you an example. The six positions that this Legislature appropriated funds for the Chair's Office, we have established them, we have developed reorg, and we are in the process of. We filled one position, the economic development position, and the other five position we're in the process of active recruitment and interviewing.

So we have tried to facilitate that process over the year through one, this delegated recruitment, and then specifically through trying to create a vertical promotion of internal staff to move up. But then what that does is that creates vacancies below. So we are trying, again, multiple strategies to address our vacancy.

Okay. Just prior to that. Never filled. Is. Is that you don't need it?

No, she's saying that just got established.

Yeah. Oh, look. But there's many. Which ones are not needed and are not.

I thought you just said those were given to you, but you're still establishing them.

Yes. So if they're not needed, they were on that. No, we. We didn't do any. Right. Yeah.

You need to. You need the mic. You need the mic.

I think positions are needed. It's just that all the divisions have their priorities. So HR is processing according to their priorities. Right. So, you know the most important one gets processed first. Right? Based on.

Yeah, but if you guys don't do it fast enough, there's no sense in us giving it to you, so.

That's a very fair question, Senator. So that's what we're trying to do, is through this new delegated recruitment.

You guys have to a conference.

We have to conference?

Yes. Get it going.

Okay. Nope. We are actively doing that.

Why don't you.

Thank you.

Just another point. I hear reorg. So in the interim, can you just. Each agency, if there's a reorg, just send us a note making sure that we understand what agency is doing reorganization.

And make sure that the leaders of an organization, we have their names and phone numbers because it wouldn't match our agency's Director book that we're always looking for who's who. Okay. So we can deal with that later. But anytime that there's reorganization in a division, we should know can send it to the Committee.

Thank you.

No, thank you. If I may proceed. A summary of our operational budget is on table two. FY25, we had approximately $326,632,854. For FY26, we are proposing a budget. Operational budget of $320,586,079.

Doesn't match.

Oh, we didn't move on. Oh. Oh, this is one. That's. It's. Sorry, it's on table two. I'm just summarizing. So.

Yeah, and then for FY24. 24.

You know what? Instead of going through that, then the better thing is we should just go to table six then.

Okay, this one was on table. So it was.

You're giving us the amount?

Yes, I'm just giving you the total. Okay.

We can go dive into straight, into ads.

So maybe I will. I will pass on those then so that I can go directly to our. Our ask. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. So now I'd like to do. So I'm going to go over our FY26-27 that is on table four.

And I am going to highlight just what we're asking for based upon the LNR ID names.

Oh, no, go to table six, because table, what you want us to see is the things you asked for that the Governor didn't approve. We just want to know what the Governor approved.

Yes, yes. No, actually, we are restraining ourselves to only tell you what the Governor approved.

Okay, but then use table six then, and not table four.

Okay, my mistake. My mistake. Okay, so let's go first over LNR 101. Briefly. Last year we received $6.1 million. $3.1 was in C Funds and $3 million in D Funds. And this was to complete phase two of Uncle Billy's demolition and remove underground structures and utilities. Wait, this. So that was.

No. What is this year's.

Okay, so. Okay, so this year, LNR 101. We're only requesting CIP Funds.

Okay.

Okay, so the first one is priority. Is our CIP priority. Department priority number 2, $1.5 million or statewide cesspool closures in accordance with the EPA consent order and RCIP. This is on our table. Table 15. We're also priority. Department priority number nine. $700,000 for Shangri La breakwater removal on Oahu.

Priority number 8, $500,000 for the lower Kapahi Reservoir removal on Kauai. And priority number 21, $500,000 for East Kapolei TOD project on Oahu.

Okay. When you're not going. I thought you were going to go by program ID.

That was. So that's LNR 101.

Yeah. So it says here you're asking for one position. $30,000 the first year. Second. $60,000 the second year.

Table 6. Table 6.

Oh, you know what? You're still on 101, so. Yes. So we have several under 101. So one of them, that's what I just explained, was Land Division. So now LNR 101.

Excuse me. On the L, the positions for LNR current. But we gave you five positions last year and I understand it's not being filled yet.

That's with Land Division.

Yeah. If we can just have an application.

Yeah. Russell Tsuji is here. My understanding is they were waiting for office space, but. Russell, did you want to answer that?

Thanks, Russell, for being here. Thanks, Chair.

Good morning, Senators. Yeah. We have established those positions and we needed time to renovate our offices to make space for the additional positions. And we've just about finished that.

You cannot do it simultaneously.

It took a while to renovate like one.

I know it takes a while to hire. I mean, why aren't you guys doing things?

We started. We actually established a position. So it's now, actually, to start recruitment would be the next step after we finished our.

So out of the five, you haven't hired yet?

Yeah, because the establishment of the positions, plus we had to reorg. Right. So that took a while. And we went through that process and completed that. So we finished up, and then we did the CIP construction in Hilo. We did the actual complete renovation of an old building.

But in most of our on Oahu and Kauai, we basically renovated our existing space.

If that's the case, what we should be doing is just giving you the position and not funding it. If you guys are going to take all this time to do renovation and reorg and all of that stuff, we shouldn't fund the position.

So that's, that's, that's not. We leave that up to the divisions. Like in the Chair's Office, you funded six positions. We are currently interviewing and hiring for those.

Yeah, but in this case, if you guys want to present it and you're asking for it, you guys got to be ready to go. And if you're not ready to go, just ask for the position without the money. And then when you need the money, then we can add it.

Yeah. And to add, because you already have positions we approved last year, so now we're adding more positions.

That's the five I'm talking about.

These are special funded. So whatever.

Still, if we appropriate, we still got to appropriate it.

Special Fund. Yeah. So it's not like a funds. That would be it.

Yeah. It doesn't matter though because as a general policy, if people, people who depend on the General Fund, then they end up moving the General Fund around.

Yeah.

We should be consistent with it.

Right. When we, I think the appropriation initially was half a year and then is anticipating proceeding full on recruitment within that time period. But what we found was we did not have enough office space. We had requested space from Dags.

Still.

They didn't have available space.

So we ended up having to either find another building for Hilo as well as Oahu and Kauai.

When you guys ask for positions, you don't try to work all that out first before asking?

In this case, in this instance, it was, it was actually through the, I think the House Investigative Committee that had recommended positions. And so that's how the thing came about. It came out really quickly. It wasn't really planned out about the space that we had not done the space analysis prior to that.

You know, you guys asking for the positions and then we allocate the money, but you guys don't know room. You guys don't anticipate of trying to make this room first.

So, like how he's saying to get these positions expedited because you guys see, you guys need the need, but then you guys are going to put everything on hold to do renovations. So if you guys are anti to renovations, then you guys know the ask for the position.

You guys come back this year, ask for the position, then we give you guys the money or so forth and so on, because again, you guys ask for them and we hurry up, give, then we're going to hurry up and wait for the positions to be filled.

So if you guys never anticipate that, anticipate that you guys needed these renovations to add this amount of people that you guys are going to have in your division, and that should be across the board, not just you guys, anybody in any of the departments.

If you guys ask for something, make sure you guys have the ability to house the people you're asking for.

So I do leave that up to the specific divisions because, for example, like I said in the chair.

The ASO should be reviewing that with the. With the divisions.

And they do. So they were doing things concurrently between office renovations as well as the positions, but the other division, you know, so each division will fill their positions once they establish them, but it does depend upon the divisions.

So I also want to be careful that we're not characterizing that this is uniformly all with land with DLNR, because we have been able to fill some positions more quickly.

Yeah, I'm not saying it is. All I'm saying is when you're going to ask for a position, make sure that you can fill it. Don't go and ask for the position and the money. And then you haven't even worked it out, because if that's the case, you should have just told the house, okay, give us the position.

Let's do all of this stuff, and then we'll come back for the money.

So I will be sure next time. Well, when we do prepare our budget, that I will work with the departments to ensure that they're going to be ready to fill the positions should they be approached. Should we receive.

Well for the land division. And we know how crowded they are, so space is important as well. Senator Moriwaki, just to follow on.

On positions. You're asking. Hi. Thank you. Russell. You're asking for two positions for the coastal mitigation program. So how many coastal lines? Yeah, so what. What are you doing with those two positions? Are they ready to go? And what does the mitigation Commission do?

Michael Cain, would you need to answer so that.

So that's with our climate Commission. That's Leah. So she can come up and answer that.

Yeah, maybe you got to clear up the difference. The. The two. How you have 101 broken up. Sure. Okay. Because that's getting confusing.

Okay. So I. My apologies. So we do have. We actually have three. One under 101. We have land division, then we have OCCL, and then I have climate Commission, all under 101. So I should have been clearer on that description.

And who's in charge of the Climate. Commission, who?

They fall under, Michael Burke. But we have Leah here, reports to the. Reports to Michael. Michael, OCCL. Okay, so maybe we'll let Leah come up and answer the question about CCMAP. The two positions are our priorities. 34 and 36.

Chairs. Vice chairs. Leah Laramie of the Climate Change Mitigation Adaptation Commission. So, yes, we requested two positions. One is an Administrative Assistant. That's to help with all of the administrative tasks that come with. We recently received a $3 million grant from the EPA and that takes a lot of, you know, invoicing and management and whatnot.

That burden has fallen to OCCL's administrative assistant. And since OCCL has been able to fill a lot of their positions, that burden has just become overwhelming. So we really need that additional assistance to help with that.

Currently, we've been diverting a lot of time to assist with that position and not able to fulfill a lot of the statutory requirements of the Climate Commission. And then the other position is for an Adaptation Management Specialist or Climate Program Specialist. And that position will really help us again to meet the requirements listed in 225p-3.

So we have both requirements to address climate change mitigation and adaptation. Again, because of that $3 million grant, we've been really focused on the Mitigation Act.

How long is the grant?

Five years.

Then why is it a permanent position versus a temporary one?

Because we anticipate getting additional funding. So this is just a.

But you're not sure.

We're pretty confident in the ability to get additional funding. We also have other federal grants. As the largest one that we've received. We also get funding from U.S. AmeriCorps to hire additional AmeriCorps positions. And we've gotten additional funding from U.S. Department of Transportation for some feasibility projects.

You can't take some of the grant funding to fund this.

Not currently, because that was not part of the application was for administrative assistance.

Why wouldn't that be?

Because we really wanted to focus all of the attention on the deliverables of the grant, including a Climate Action Plan and a preliminary Climate Action Plan, which was published last year.

How many positions do you currently have?

Just the one. Just myself.

Just yourself?

Yeah.

The administrative position would be helpful notwithstanding just the EPE grant, but just to support the CCMAP.

So, who does the grant execution then? If you're mitigating, what are you mitigating? And how do you determine priorities to mitigate on your. The monies you bring in?

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we address a lot, a large range of mitigation efforts. So our job is primarily to work with the different state departments to identify, you know, the different areas where they're already working in and where they can expand their efforts for mitigation.

What does the money do?

The EPA money? Yeah, currently it's to help us to draft a climate action plan.

So none of that goes into actually hardening or dealing with the problem.

All for planning.

What are the results of your.

Are we going to fix it if we're only planning?

Yeah, I mean, that'd be great. We'd be happy to implement.

Some of the problems are so obvious. What are you going to do? I mean, if the graves are falling into the ocean, we need a plan. Let's start putting money into implementation.

I absolutely agree with you. We need to put money into implementation.

So why aren't you guys.

So there are some efforts being done by OCCL. So this is Just Climate Commission and they're managing this particular grant. OCCL through their grant program or through their program, they also are looking at climate, you know, developing with Michael with SEA Grant to help with shoreline mitigation measures, working with the counties, working with private landowners.

On developing to achieve what though? What are we trying to achieve? Because it's good to be busy, but then there's no outcome.

Well, some of it is, how are we protecting.

No, I think you guys gotta come back to show us exactly what the outcomes are gonna be to justify why you need the funding. But a plan, just funding for just planning is not. Is a no goal.

If I may, the funding was a, was a grant, so that's federal funding.

But for these positions.

So for these.

I'm not gonna support something that doesn't achieve an outcome.

I mean, absolutely. And I think the outcomes that we achieve will be identified within that plan. There's also the decarbonization that was developed by HSCO. So we have an idea of those different, like, concrete actions that we want to achieve and that are part of our.

That's all like wishful thinking. And we're going to ask for a permanent position.

I don't believe it.

Until you show me a list of real things we're going to accomplish. It's hypothetical.

Yeah. So maybe what we can do is there have been grants that have been awarded and maybe we can provide you a list of all the grants that's been awarded and what the purpose of those.

Because in the past we look at OP's report on climate change, we tried to fund specific projects. The Governor vetoed that. That was the first year when he said $100 million to climate change. So we actually went through the budget, we funded $100 million worth of projects. He vetoed it. And now you're asking for money for planning.

When we went through this already two years ago.

Yeah, I think once we get to Office of Planning as well, because it seems like there's some, some communications. It seems like we're talking about the same thing. So it seems like there are some areas.

The problem is that you have OP, you have, you guys, you had two divisions. It's all over the place.

And that's a very fair assessment, Senator. And we are trying. So through this Climate Commission, it is designed to be.

So why are we funding you guys for planning? We have a whole office of Planning and Sustainable Development. Why aren't they doing the planning and you guys doing the implementation? So now you're doing the planning and what are they supposed to do then? They're the whole office for planning.

Yeah, absolutely. We're definitely coordinating with them and creation of this.

No, but that's supposed to be their job.

And I'll just to note on the actual items, we do have a list of implementable actions that could use funding that I can provide to you folks. It's on our grants to projects bridge. So we have a lot of different projects that we've identified on there that are concrete projects that could use funding to implement.

So why didn't you guys propose that specific projects that you know are going to make a difference?

My, my understanding of this EPA grant, it was designed that we would be like a clearinghouse to, to have communities, different agencies submit grant proposals that we could fund so that they're implementing out in their respective communities to address the various issues related to climate change. So that's what this grant.

So this is separate and apart from what OP is doing. This is to enable community engagement and.

Participate in-

-apart, but still needs to be coordinated.

So that's why both.

That's Mary, Alice and I said-

there's too much, too many silos going on.

That is a very good question. And we are internally trying to address that. Even at Climate Commission. Is this relevant? How are we better coordinating with both the counties? Office of Planning, should, you know, should this Climate Commission be placed out in OPSD? Maybe That's a better location for them than in DLNR.

I mean, so we're looking, we are addressing those.

But I agree with that though, because we need to make sure that we're not separate and make sure that it's coordinated. Because when we come before us, it seems like we're duplicating something that OP has as well. But clearly we understand and you know.

We have a sense of urgency. That's why we did it two years ago. But what I, what I don't like is getting stuck in the planning when we got so many things that we got to deal with. I mean, we thought, I mean, for instance, the Hongwanji or was it the Soto Mission?

You know, two years ago they came asking for help where graves are falling into the ocean. And we're going to continue to plan.

And that's not your pilina though, understand? Yes. We've got to separate adaptation as well.

So in your list, can you also include who is going to do the implementation? Have you worked with them or not? Because that's what we're looking at. You can have a plan and can sit on a shelf, but what are you doing to actually get it done? And I don't see that.

But if you have that, could you submit that to us?

So let us follow up with you on that, providing you the specific, the role of this and then the specific grants that we're awarding pursuant to this EPA climate action. But that is the basis for those two position requests.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you again.

Question. So, since you guys planning how long this plan going to take place and how much more money going to take for the plan because right now you guys don't have anything to give us on your plan.

When you guys have some data that you can share with us on the two plus years or whatever you guys planning, you guys have information.

We have a priority climate action plan that we can submit to you that was completed last year and then this plan will be due at the end of the 2025. So. So that, and that again, that funding is completely from the EPA. That's federal funding. So it's not taking any state funding to, to develop.

Understand that Like I said, I mean we talking climate change, sea level rising. We can plan all day, all week, anticipate this and anticipate that. But when we're going to have results. Again, we're not blaming you guys for the results, but again, here we are again, not coming up with any results.

And we go in full funding regardless of the federal funding I think I pay federal tax. So there's two tax people's money and it's still somebody's money.

Yeah.

So unless we have an actual plan or we actually have some kind of results, to me this is just like money in the air and then disappearing depending on the EPA or might be hazardous. The money in the air. Yeah. Thank you. No, no, that's okay.

You guys can come up with some kind of data to give us so we know.

Why don't we go to the next line? 102. Fringe benefit adjustment and Federal Fund Ceiling Adjustment. This is page.

What table was there?

Table 6, page 70 for us.

And then. So those one. Those are almost.

So that is LNR 102, Cynthia. That is.

This is for fringe benefit adjustment.

Yes, it's a fringe benefit adjustment.

Due to what?

Because they have. Because of the salary adjusted by the CU or the CBA. We have.

What is the CBA?

The union agreement.

Yeah. So I know most people watching are not going to understand acronyms.

The salary got adjusted so that base salary is now higher. And so when we apply the fringe benefit rate, it's. We need more feeling for that.

And then the next one.

Thanks. The next one. 172. So the. So this one is. Yep.

The Ceiling.

Yep. That's. That's DOFAW, Division of Forestry and Wildlife. And that's the same Federal Ceiling Adjustment.

So then the second year looks like you guys are going to be receiving a lot more.

The 4 million.

Yeah. What's. What. What's going on here?

This is 1. 172.

You guys are asking for more federal funds and receiving it?

Yeah. So it depends on how the programs are anticipating federal grants. So when they do know that at some point the federal grants are going to be lower than what is expected, they can adjust. So, like, for example, the ones that they probably have applied for this year, but they're gonna get it next year.

So depending on if it's an increase or decrease.

So they applied for the extra money for the $950,000? And what is this grant supposed to do?

David?

No, you guys asked for the money. I don't know. You guys asked for the ceiling increase, so you should. Yeah, but she just said that that's anticipating additional grant funding. Yeah. So what is that funding supposed to do?

I'm sorry that we don't have that specific answer to you right now.

Okay, let's go to the next one then. The $5 million.

This is the $5 million. This is. This is under 172. Again, under DOFAW. This is for this. So this is when we originally asked for $25 million, but the Governor approved $5 million. And this was for protection of forest?

Yes, the forest. Resilient.

Yeah. Fire resilient. Yeah.

And so where would this go? What areas are you targeting?

David, why don't you come on up? This is. This is 172. The 5 million. This is the one originally.

So in FY23, you get 25 million for this Fund. LNR 117.

David, point the mic towards you. Thanks.

Forest and Resource management. So the big buckets to that. It goes into forestry generally, but it includes endangered species, invasive species. We have big problems right now with forest birds going extinct. And so a significant amount of money went into. You can give us a breakdown of the five? Yeah, I can give you a complete breakdown. Yeah.

And I. I just received this from Emma Yuen, who says funds will construct fence to exclude sheep, goats, cattle and pigs and control ungulates across. This is 20,000 acres. Fence locations include, but are not limited to Kauai, Oahu, East Molokai, Maui and Hawaii islands.

This funding will also help the Sustainable Hawaii Initiative grow to protect 30% of watershed forest by 2030. And these. Okay, that was for the 5 million? That's for the 5 million. Yeah.

We got a. In the justification, there's a complete list of a bunch of the projects that.

We have doing the wildlife habitat stuff. We have.

We have spreadsheets that have them. That's the.

You guys provided for the full 25 or just the 5.

I think the actual total was like 47 million or something. We have needs far and above 25 million. So we have a number of projects. It'll be, you know, some things fall off the bottom, but there's lots and lots of projects that we have that could cover that and that much again.

Okay, and then the next two I think we can skip because they're almost a duplicate of the previous ones.

Just one question. You folks collect admin fees and you collect penalties and fees. What is that budget for that? Do you use some of that or what. Some of the work that you need to have done for fees, for fees or. I think in your.

If the Ford stewardship program, you say you would you administer admin fines and fees under the State Reserve forest system since 2020, do you collect any monies.

And not forest stewardship? We do get a small amount of money.

How much of that do you.

I don't know. We probably get a couple hundred, maybe $300,000 a year.

So what is that used for?

That gets rolled back into forest Reserve management. So it's more like more routine type of things. Maintaining forest roads, trails, fences, just all the things that go on day to day. Managing forest users. We issue lots of permits, so there's just a lot of associated costs with just managing forest users generally.

I mean, we have crews out there every single day working on stuff. Fences break, people cut Fences, people break in.

That includes your Allah.

Has funding. But there's a crossover between forestry series and Nala Haley. So, you know, we have a lot of road access roads and trails and whatnot on forest reserves that aren't necessarily. Some are managed more by the forestry program, some more by the Nala Haley program, but just, you know, we manage with the State Forest Reserve Program.

There's 700,000 acres of land that takes a significant. Every square inch is open 365247. And so managing, you know, it's managing people and managing the resources out there. So there's just a lot going on.

That's different from what you're asking us to. To Fund.

Yeah, that's separate from the LNR. 172, 25 million. Ask 5 million, which is added above and beyond. You know, the other work that we could do. And I know when it came up a few years ago, the discussion was, well, you can't spend that much money. Well, we did, and we could do it every year.

These are ongoing costs. And, you know, in the meantime, we have things like forest birds going extinct and that kind of thing. That's the kind of things we're rushing to try to do something about. We're trying to fill gaps like that.

So that we can get a report of what you. You Fund through the special admin fees that you collect versus what you're asking for. Absolutely.

Yeah, we can get you that for sure. Thank you. Okay.

Okay. Why don't we move to the 22 position?

Next one is 402. It's the 22 positions.

Yeah, yeah. Fire. So we got. I mean, it got pulled out of the regular budget, put in a separate Bill. The Governor vetoed it, put it into the major disaster Fund. But that doesn't make the positions permanent. So we can't really hire them, you know, and lay somebody off at the end of June.

So we need to have those positions to be permanent if we want to do that kind of work. That's all related to fire. Fire management. So we're talking about fire breaks, shaded fuel breaks.

So who does this person. Who would these 22 people report to?

They would report primarily to the branches. It would also bring some capacity to our admin section.

So they're not all in one area?

No, they're broken up into every branch. Every island would receive personnel.

So how do you organize training? Consistency.

So those are. Michael Walker.

We have a very good fire management and training. Yeah.

But my understanding now is staff kind of play a dual role. Right. So this is going to be just dedicated.

Well, this is going to stuff up. So Michael. So this is Michael Walker. So Michael, if you could answer those questions related to one and training.

Aloha. I'm Michael Walker. I'm the statewide fire protection forester for the division. So each branch, all these people report to the protection forester and the forestry program manager at the branch. And those folks are all on the fire team. So I coordinate the training. But also the. The branches also have certified trainers that are at each branch.

So we all follow National Wildfire Coordinating Group standards nwcg and we train our folks in house with our capacity. And then we also have our state partners through the Northwest Compact that we can get training from as well as the U.S. forest Service.

Yeah, but this is a departure from the current approach. Right, because the current approach is you have an existing job and then whenever there's a fire, you kind of put on your fire equipment and then you go fight it. This looks like it's dedicated fire.

No, sir. These are all still. Fire is still collateral duties for these staff. Many of them are hired. There's heavy equipment operators and mechanics, and there's also people that are dedicated to fuel reduction work, particularly on Maui. That's how they.

I asked each forestry program manager to provide me with a list of positions that they need to support the fire program, particularly at their own branch.

So, Senator, it's not just force firefighting. They also, you know, they do fire suppression. They cut all the vegetation down. They put off fences to keep out ungulates. I mean, there is, there's a multitude of duties that they have, but they also respond to fires. So.

But firefighting is, you know, supposed prevention, suppression, and then during the fire.

Okay, but the justification only talks about really fire management, not the other duties you're talking about.

No, it should. It's like increased staffing to increase for resilient forest landscapes. To prevent fire. Yeah, prevent fires. So that's all part of the justification.

Hazardous fuel management is a part of the job that's. We, you know, we have 25% of our state is covered in invasive grasses. And we manage 26% of the lands in the state. And many of these lands have these grasses on our lands.

And so the bulk of the work that we do is fuel reduction and fuel management across the landscape.

Yeah, Senator is primary responder for wildlife fires occurring across 1 million acres. I mean, that's your. But you, you talked about the fact that there's other duties that they're going to have at the Same time? Well, yeah, because currently the staff kind of has two roles, I thought.

Well, they. They have a multitude of roles, all dealing with fire prevention. So whether it's with fuel reduction, whether. It'S firefighting, and then when there's a.

Fire, when they mobilize to do that. And with all the other agencies as well. And the counties. And the counties. Senator Alante, question on.

On relation to this. I know last session we established the Office of the Fire Marshal, which is housing the Department of Labor. Yes. So how is this funding tied in to that? And then recently we had a proposal from DoD which had their Office of Fire Marshal established and appropriated in their budget.

Currently, it's unrelated right now other than the airport fire rescue folks, we are the state wildfire firefighting force.

So until those offices get established in whatever Department they are going to be established in, we are going to proceed because we have Chapter 185 mandating that we suppress fires on our landscape and work with our partners across the state to do so on other lands.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

How much of this, though, should be something you talked about, about ensuring that we expand forestry. So, like, I mean, in the areas of Lahaina, we talked about expanding forestry. Expand. Expanding ag.

But so we also have other divisions within, you know, like the Natural Area reserves and watershed. 404407 even 172. So they all work there.

There's different ID numbers within Division of Forestry and Wildlife, but they do coordinate and, you know, David is the administrator, but they all have different areas of expertise, but they mobilize together when there is a need to. You know, multiple agencies have to respond in a particular. If there's a fire on Kauai or on Maui.

But each of the Division of Forestry and Wildlife, those different divisions, you have Watershed protection and then you have this Natural Resources and Fire Protection. And then we have like the Na'ala Helipad.

Okay, so none of these are going to go to what?

No, they're all going to go to. No, these are just going to go. These 22 positions will just go to LNR4 to native resources and Fire Protection Program.

Okay, where's the effort to be proactive then?

So that is this pro. That is this.

No, no, no. I'm asking the chair.

So that, that is. That is. That is the effort of this program. It is like, how are we preventing forest fires? How are we managing fire fuels? How are we keeping the ground?

What I'm trying to figure out then is where is the budget request specifically for areas Like Lahaina, where we should be starting reforested station already.

So some of these positions. Some of those positions will be used for that. Other. Those positions may be used more the upper mountain lands in other branches.

Okay, well, can you give us a breakdown of how that where that is? Because you're saying it's folded in. There's not going to be a specific request for that area for reforestry.

No, there may be. There may be separate watershed management that may be helping to protect, let's say the Maca Mauka areas in Lahaina so that we protect the watershed. That may be a separate funding.

Is that a separate funding?

I don't think we're asking for. No.

So that's what I'm trying to get at is why aren't we already trying to figure out the proactive approach for that area? We've talked about it for two years for agriculture and reforestry, but I haven't seen a specific budget request to achieve that.

So if you look at. And these were a governor's adjustment, the 3 million, that's specifically for West Maui fire prevention and Ukumehame Wetland. And part of that is specifically designed just to support those fire prevention efforts in Lahaina and specifically at Ukumehame. There's also.

That's going to be a reforestation project.

Is that a reforestation upland and lower wetland, so restoring the wetlands as well down below.

Okay, well maybe you guys can present that at some point.

And does that also include NARS too then? Right, it's for sale.

And so I do want to convey part of the strategy with also with DLNR and DOPA in particular is there's a multitude, the Makai. Maka to Makai. I mean all of our divisions have to work in a coordinated effort, but each division may have their own area special to you.

Yeah. So I was looking for the budget request to achieve reforestation and re and making sure that we can get agriculture going back as part of the strategy. Because if not we're having 22 people, but yet we're still talking about the bigger issues that we.

But there's no funding for the bigger issues of actually figuring out which areas we're going to do reforestation, which areas we're going to have agriculture.

So Senator, that was part of the $5 million. The reforestation for LNR. 172. The first s as first as David.

But that's not broken out.

So that's a watershed protection. Watershed protection. So we could have spent more money, but that's all that we got in the Governor's Budget was the 5 million.

Yeah. I don't know. I think you have a better time if you broke out.

Specifically for Lahaina. I see how we're going to what monies are needed for reforestation and then for Department of Ag or adc, specifically for agriculture. So we can see that those efforts. Because if not, the money gets lost. We have no idea, Senator. Decoy.

Okay.

Thank you. So, Chair, let's also ask. Can you also break out with the requests in regards to native resources based on your game management plan on the axis deer and then the reforestation in Upcountry Maui as well that has taken on major impact.

David, can you answer that? The game management.

Is there anything in there for Upcountry Maui under the game management and reforestation based on the fires that occurred up there as well?

Excuse me. There's no specific funding for access deer other than what we already have appropriated. So we're working on. We're still working on that. The funding that we received prior.

Zero, so they didn't even spend what you had previously?

Well, some of it was over a couple of fiscal years. So I'm not sure exactly where that funding is. I can get back to you exactly on where that is, but we've been working on the fencing and the landowner incentive program to reduce access deer numbers.

Well, the reason why I'm asking is because of the game management issue that's going on with access deer, that whole place has been inundated with fireweed and that has not helped those lands to be grazable. And it's impacted the farmland as well.

It's also spread to Molokai, as you and I know, Chair, when we took that trip up. Yeah. Fireweed's a big issue in pasture. It's taking it over. So I kind of want to know if you folks have anything allocated in there to protect that as well, specifically.

Related to fireweed and pasture management. That might be more of an ag thing than. And related to. As well.

Yeah. And we did have a request under 402. It was for $7.4 million for recurring funds for fire suppression, readiness response and post fire restoration and rehabilitation. But that was not approved. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff.

Yes. May I add one more thing to that? So, part of that $7.45 million I've allocated $1.5 million to go to fuel reduction projects on partnership.

We're looking at the 22 positions at 1.4. Which one are you talking about?

Yes, sir. And then there's the governor's operating budget, which I believe we asked for 7.45 and it was reduced down to 4 million. Which page is that on? Table six.

It wasn't funded.

Zero. Yeah. For fire.

For fire suppression readiness, post fire restoration and rehabilitation.

Okay, what page is that on? Table four.

Page three of the.

7.1. 1 more time on page four.

And that's our prior. That's our priority number 14.

zero, I see it.

That's 7.425 million.

Okay, but part of this, my understanding is there, and I mean, I'm not trying to justify the governor's decision, but part of this ask wouldn't be taking care of a federal funds we're supposed to be getting for fire suppression or. No.

So the federal funds have certain restrictions on them. The ones that we get for state fire assistance we can use for certain things. And then the rest of the federal funds that we get are competitive grant funds. And a lot of those programs have restrictions on what can and cannot be spent.

One of those things is water resource development, which is crucial to fire suppression here in the state. There's not a whole lot of water resources.

There's not a whole lot of water for also providing for fuel reduction projects like grazing and irrigating some of these projects when you're installing what's called a green break or a shaded fuel break. And So I allocated $1.5 million to help.

To assist landowners that are adjacent to forest reserves in order to help Fund them do fuel reduction projects on their land. That's. That's part of that 7.45. And that was part of our operating ask last year. That got moved over to the major disaster Fund.

We asked for it again this year and it was not included in the Governor's Budget.

But the Governor did make an adjustment of 4 million for fire and emergency response. Yeah. So that might have been his. His.

Okay, well, why don't we just move on for the.

Go ahead. So the question is, is what. What are you guys spending from the MDF though? Because you got the 22 positions out of the major disaster Fund. And so you guys didn't make any progress doing any of that with the 22 positions or any of the. Anything from the MDF. Right. On. On fire suppression.

Because it's, it's not like you needed the budget from us.

Yeah, to be perfectly Frank, the. It was a bit of a minor disaster for us because once we got. Once the funding was approved for the major disaster Fund, then we had to request the funds for. From the Department of Defense. And it took a process where the money didn't even hit our accounts until November of 2024.

So we are already several months behind in trying to spend these things. We had the $10 million associated with equipment purchase to revitalize our equipment fleet. And we've already got stacks of purchase orders that are lined up ready to go to start spending down that balance.

The 22 positions, however, because we don't have a legal basis because of the. That Bill, SB3068 was vetoed. There's no legal basis to establish these positions right now.

So you didn't make any progress on the position.

We have all the position descriptions written and, and ready to go. But we cannot just go out and advertise for these jobs, recruit these people and hire them, only to have to say, zero, by the way, in June we ran out of money because. Okay. And that's. So.

So then you. But you did buy equipment. We're buying equipment as we speak. Operational stuff. Well, CIP and some operational stuff.

Yeah, the operational stuff. I have a purchase order for $1.5 million to support Hawaii Wild Farm Management Organization through the. The money that they release. Yeah, we're a little bit behind the eight ball because we didn't get the funds as soon as we would have liked to have. Okay, great. Thank you, chair.

So sound like you said, it's for equipment, CIP and contracts and doesn't sound like any staffing because, you know, you.

Need the 1.0. Yeah. 14 for these 22 positions was allocated for that. But we, we can't do anything with that legally right now until we, we make sure that we have legal basis to establish these positions and they are going to have future funding.

I'm not going to hire people and then tell them that, zero, by the way, your job's gone like that, they would never want to work for us again.

Your positions that you have, including your equipment and vehicle, heavy vehicle construction, they're spread out, right? Yes. It's spread out throughout the islands.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay, what's the next request? 4.25.

Yeah, 4.25.

That's to support our Invasive Species Council.

Just on DOFA and on invasive Species console, how are you coordinating with Department of Agriculture? Because it looks like you're doing the same thing and controlling invasives. So what is being done and is this 4.2 million coordinated with what Department of Agriculture is doing?

That is a very fair and good question. We do have an invasive species concept and the councils is chaired by both myself from DLNR and Department of Ag, Sharon Hurd. So we try to coordinate. We have a memorandum of agreement including doa.

The key word is you try to coordinate.

You don't coordinate, you try coordinating. So what does this 4.25 million?

She is the head administrator for the Hawaii Invasive Species Council.

Bless you. Thanks.

Bless you. Aloha. Chairs, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee Chelsea Arnot Program support for the Hawaiian Base of Species Council. In regards to the question, Director Chang made a good reference to the council and how it operates and coordinates with the co chairs of the Departments of Agriculture and Department of Land and Natural Resources.

This funding for the 4.25 million, it really supports our other partner organizations. And also it can serve as a gap filler for a lot of state departments. It's interagency funding.

So a majority of our funding every year that we get through the Hawaiian Basis Species Council supports the Island Invasive Species Committees which are established on each of the islands. They're really the ones that are working on the ground on existing pest.

So a lot of the invasive plants like Miconia, little fire ants, even coconut, rhinoceros beetle, these invasive species committees are working on. They also support Hawaii Ant Lab.

I think you have to articulate what DOA does differently than what you're doing. That's what she's asking because supporting, supporting, supporting. We still don't know how that differentiates between DOA and what you're and Exactly.

Okay, thank you for clarification. So Department of Agriculture has the regulatory authority to do inspection, quarantine and for agricultural commodities. The other organizations don't have that regulatory authority. They're really working at the pre border and border ports of the focal areas of biosecurity and they do some work with the existing pest here in Hawaii.

But across the islands, the Island Invasive Species Committees are really the ones that work across the sectors. So they're working on invasives that are impacting environment, agriculture, human health. They can work on a whole degree of those. Where a lot of our state departments have specific focal areas.

Department of Agriculture is specific to agriculture and protecting those commodities. Department of Land and Natural Resources is focused on environment, natural and Cultural Resources Protection. But the island invasive species committees are able to work across those sectors and really aren't bound by, you know, jurisdictions, mission statements, whatnot.

Yeah, but the effort last year was to put all, consolidate all the funding to doa.

That funding is. We still have an appropriation through the Hawaii Invasive Species Council that we receive every year thanks to legislation that was in the base. Yes, that's our base of 5.75 million.

So the biosecurity Bill, which was an amazing increase to Department of Agriculture is really focused on their biosecurity regulatory authority, increasing positions of the plant inspectors. They're the only ones that can do those inspections at the borders and do those compliance agreements that we see with Oregon Department of Agriculture for Christmas trees. So those pre border actions.

So that funding is critical and it benefits all of us in the long run when we get that biosecurity capacity increased through Department of Agriculture. Sure. Yeah.

So maybe, maybe if you could give us specific projects.

Yes, I think the Waimanala one is a good example. Where it starts up, let's say the Ki frogs, they start off on Department of Ag. They've now gone into our forest reserves. So our forestry, our deal, our DOA have now have to expend funds to use a helicopter to put like was it situated?

So, so that's, so that's where we have coordination. But these pests, they have no, they have no boundary barriers. So they cross into forest Reserve. That becomes our Kuleana. When they're on the ag land, that becomes doas Kuleana.

So but unless we're coordinated and we try to manage this in a more proactive way, we're going to have this unmanageable level of invasive species which we currently do have. But that's how we're coordinating. So we're trying to use the same resources, but when we cross over into different jurisdictions, we then take over.

How are the committees working with DOA and DLNR so that in fact there is on the ground coordination?

Well, they're supposed to be. The two chairs are DOA and dlnr.

But the committees. The Invasive Species Committee.

Yeah, that's a great question. Each of the island invasive species committees has a steering Committee and within those steering committees they have representations presentation from the state departments. Dlnr, Department of Agriculture. So they work at the branch levels. As Dave was mentioning, we have branches on each of the islands and same with Department of Agriculture.

So they actually work with the on island Department of Agriculture staff.

What do they do to actually help in the inspection or in the control. When we have the invasive species that are noted in wherever it is, who goes out and actually starts working with the two departments or the number of departments. Department of Transportation. That's coming in from the harbors.

Airports. So when it comes your Committee's actually apologies.

Yeah.

Yeah. So they don't have the regulatory authority to do inspections. That sits just within Department of Agriculture. But when there is a pest, let's say for coconut rhinoceros beetle, where it's not established on Maui County or over on Hawaii island, the Island Invasive Species Committee has worked with the Department of Agriculture to help enhance the effort. Right.

To go out and monitor coconut trees for any palm damage. They work with the communities to make sure they're engaged and aware and know where to report potential CRB sightings or CRV damage.

And so they, they work on controlling existing pests here and they work really closely with the Department of Agriculture to make sure we're not duplicating efforts. And the milk.

What we try to do with the Bill though was to divert all the funding to Department of Ag. That way there's at least some central point and we have to create some dashboard.

So what you're talking about then any one of us could go online, look at the dashboard, see which nonprofit agency contract staff went to what area, what they sprayed, when they sprayed, how much they sprayed. And if another, another group went three weeks later, we could see it statewide where people are. That's.

That was the whole reasoning of trying to make sure that it went to one entity so that we could do the mapping consistency, the training coordination versus just you telling us in General we can see it specifically.

Yeah. Data sharing protocols are something that we've been working towards. So we can have.

I know, but how long have we been doing this? And if the problem is just getting worse and we don't have that by.

Now, we don't have a front facing dashboard. But I will say we do have a coordinated effort when it comes to some of those priority pests. And there is regular meetings where we discuss each of the islands little fire ant, Khoki frogs, coconut rhinoceros beetle and make sure we're not duplicating efforts.

And also that we're not leaving gaps.

And there's no dashboard for us to see that.

I know, yes, we need to work.

Because I can't tell if ant lab went out or DOA went out or DLNR went out or a Hysk went. I can't tell when they went, where they went, what they Sprayed.

Agreed.

And aren't you also working with the University of Hawaii?

Yes, the Island Invasive Species Committee sit under the University of Hawaii their projects of the Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit. But we also Fund quite a bit of research through CTAHR at the University of Hawaii that will just help us enhance control management tools and also just basic biology and distribution for new pests.

And if you recall last year the legend you asked us very similar questions. How are you guys coordinating? So as a result of that request we established a memorandum of agreement between doa, DLNR and University of Hawaii to prioritize these pests. So I think the first one was little fire ants.

So to do exactly that you're suggesting how are we coordinating so that we're not duplicating, we don't fill the gaps. So that MOA is supposed to be designed to articulate what our specific roles are.

A component of that is supposed to be a communication or public facing, whether you call it dashboard and I'm not and obviously we haven't quite implemented that yet.

But you know we've been dealing with invasive species for quite some time and we're not at the point where we should be.

Yes, I think this is something the council can push and we have shared databases amongst the agencies but we just don't have a public front facing.

Yeah, see and I feel like that's the problem is there's too many agencies but you're not sure who's really in control of the dashboard, the overall contracting, making sure there's consistency.

Yeah, we can work closely with Department.

Of Agriculture and I think you should include it as well in any of the DLNR divisions to help. But the chair is correct though, the community needs answers and to create something they can go on board and just look at it and see what agencies are responsible.

So we will move into that question.

With regards to coconut, rhinoceros beetle, with regards to your folks, working groups and your meetings and you're collaborating. It doesn't sound like you guys either DLNR or Department of Agriculture has any clear cut plan to. Well, eradication of CRB is out. Any plan to contain. I mean millions and millions of dollars is being spent on these efforts.

Used to have those black lanterns throughout the communities. Those are all gone. If you got onto the west side, all the coconut trees are all whacked, there's none left. So with all of the meetings and all of the working groups is there and millions of dollars means is there any solution, any plan whatsoever with CRB specifically?

Yeah, that's a Great question. And each we know each of the islands are in a different place.

We're preventing and we are containing and making sure what happens on Oahu doesn't happen to Maui County or Hawaii island when it comes to eradication, you're right, we're not going to be able to eradicate it from the state, but we can do better management. And so we are exploring biocontrol for coconut rhinoceros beetle.

We're working with the University of Hawaii very closely and they're working on the SOP and the permit to bring in the virus that has been effective on controlling CRB and other Pacific islands where it's been established there longer.

So that'd be a huge game changer for areas like Oahu that are severely impacted and hopefully it would manage the population to a level where we wouldn't see the level of damage that we have right now on palms and other species.

Okay, with regards to that chemical that you're talking about bringing in that was being used for other Pacific islands, do you have that information now? Do you have that to share with right now?

I can give you an update on it. It's the researcher is Dr. Mike Melzer and we're actually having an invasive study species informational briefing on Friday where University of Hawaii will be presenting. And we were specifically asked to get an update on coconut rhinoceros beetle. So he'll be able to provide an update on that.

And it's a natural enemy. So it's importing something from the native range of coconut rhinoceros beetle that is able to keep the population down in there. And so we need to do testing to make sure it'll be infective on coconut rhinoceros beetle here. It wouldn't have any non target impacts also.

Okay, just make sure that when you guys are doing your studies that it doesn't kill off other natural native species as well. Because what's good for one might not necessarily be good for another. So we just want to make sure. But I do just want a closing comment. Please work on plan B, C and D.

We should be able to at least have multiple solutions for at least crb. It sounds like little fire ants kind of. We've got a hand on it a little bit sooner rather than later. So that's good. But we can't continue to allow our coconut trees just to get blasted all throughout the islands. But that's it. Thank you.

Yeah. The scary part is it's not just a coconut tree. Right. Because the beetle has now moved on to other Plants, which is going to affect agriculture.

Yes. So we really want to try to push with Department of Ag. It's how do we prevent them at the border? How do we keep out invasive species from transmitting from one island to the next or even coming into Hawaii? So we share your frustrations. I mean, we're really frustrated.

We just cannot get a good handle on invasive species. We are trying to be better coordinated. I mean, an example H1N1 bird flu, not invasive species. But so DoA, DLNR and DoH have been collaborating. We have agreed that DoA is going to be. The communications will run through them. Testing will be done by DoH.

DLNR is going to help collect any specimens that are out in the community, and then DOA will be the one that gets the communications out. So we hear your frustration on the communities. We are trying to be better. The problems are enormous, but we are trying to be better at coordinating where the agencies intersect with each other.

How can we more effectively communicate to the community as well as utilize our resources?

Well, part of it is you need better public awareness campaigns. And we talked about that at the Last Department of agri.

You're right.

You know, unfortunately, that got cut. We had the $20 million in that included a public awareness campaign. And so we have to solicit the public cells.

I agree. No, you're. So that's what we're hoping also with these. His. These. Our existing networks on our islands, using them as a. As a mechanism to get information out. But this is. This is a monumental task. So I share the frustration and we are trying.

I'm a little bit concerned if communication is going to go through doa. One of the things that Department of Health did, which was revealing was they told us how many press releases they actually sent out. That's going to be my next question to every Department. How many press releases did your PIO send out?

Because I think some PIOs aren't doing enough.

Well, I know our vis. Our communicate. Dan Denison doesn't. Every day, Every day, every day we have announcements. He's doing a great job. I can't answer how many specific press releases we've sent out on any one of these, but we do have to do a better job on communicating with the community, whether it's through a dashboard and.

Or other mechanisms. But we're trying through our partners as well.

You know, going further. One second with regards to that bird flu disease as well, very concerning. And with regards to communication, I mean, I was shocked when I was at Coconut island yesterday in my District and these couple were feeding the birds and they were all around them.

I would say there were several, dozens of them and it even got into their heads. But they were enjoying it. But communication, as the chair is saying is really important to get the message out. Anyway, just to add, thank you Senator Morwaukee and then 4.25 million.

Can you tell us how you're using it? Because this dashboard is critical even in terms of knowing outbreak and where they are, so people can know where and what to do about it. So there's control, even if it's among yourselves that have one common dashboard.

Yes, so I did in there. I budgeted for a data coordinator because we need, it's a full time job and we've been trying to do it through our council and other positions. But data coordination is a full time job and we really want to mirror it to what's happened with part of.

It though it could be. What we're talking about is the structure. I don't think the current structure is working. I don't think this Invasive Species Council and the way it's all split up, I don't think it's working. It's obviously not.

And so we have to relook at restructuring how we're going to approach browse security because the current way of doing things is not working, period. And so either you're going to come up with something or we will.

Can move on.

Okay, what's the 500,000?

Senator McKelvey, just a real quick comment on that.

Maybe we should look to the Border Protection Agency of the as a model to put everything in house under one agency where its mission is border protected fireworks or fire ants. It's all accountable. We're trying, they're trying. Maybe it's time for us to look at that structure anyway. Thank you Chair.

No, they cannot help.

Okay, 500,000 that's going to Hawaii. Chelsea?

Yeah. The 500,000 is for the Hawaiian Lab which is also University of Hawaii project of the Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit. They are the primary leads with developing research. So the treatment and monitoring protocols that are successful at controlling little fire ant today are developed by the Hawaii Ant Lab. They have no long term stable funding.

They are working on a piece by piece every, every year trying to find funding.

Yeah, but you know what I gotta go back to. There's no overall plan. And so all we're doing is funding this, funding that everyone's creating their own little plans and there's not a big state strategy that everyone has to implement.

We do have A interagency biosecurity plan that's on the eighth year of implementation, and we are using that and tracking that in terms of, like, that's laughable.

If eight years we're implementing and the problems are getting worse. Okay, how does that even sound good?

But I think has been successful. I mean, I think they do have a proven track record of their method of eradication or little firearms.

Yeah, they could be. I'm saying the overall state strategy, though, isn't necessarily working, so you could have some small successes with certain agencies. But in the big picture, we might be winning some battles, losing the war. In my. So we got to look at that. We look at that. We should be winning the war.

I was just notified that CTAHR is going to locate the ant lab over to one of its new improvements to CTAR's problems on the Big Island. And I understand the ant lab will be part of it.

You know, another thing that I think is what I did not hear is the civil defense getting involved, because I. I really think we're at the point where if you do have coconut rhinoceros beetle in your community, you should get a text already. If you got fire ants in your.

In your block, that zip code or whatever, should probably get a text already saying, hey, you know, look for it. Call the. The number. Here's the hotline. I mean, why aren't we being more proactive like that?

Yes, we can be. And.

And we're after eight years or longer.

Yes. Yeah. An invasive species. There's just more and more that are at our borders that we're trying to prevent and more and more that are spread.

We're doing it all in vacuums. We're doing it all in silos. It's not coordinated. We're not including the public. We got to change things.

Sure. So you know how the public know about the RHNAt people? All the trees dead. That's how we find out.

All of Harbor's trees was died and died a long time ago, actually. Wreck. I don't know what they're doing. Auto straps you're talking about gone. We have nothing. We have topless palm trees otherwise that they have instead the. The Reserve to replant. They're dying, too. Again.

Yeah.

You guys see, you guys are trying to stop them from coming in. How are we stopping them from coming in when it's coming in on the fertilizers? Those are the things that we got to look because that's what they're using for.

Not only the new subdivisions, whole pili Coral Ridge they're putting in all these, these trees and then before you know it, the subdivision is not even done and the trees are dying. So how, how are we keeping tabs on that? You know, that's all we got to know. I mean it's just kind of frustrating.

You guys talk to any local community Members that maybe were studying it longer than eight years and maybe they have a little bit input to eradicate the financialistic. I get plenty calls, I don't have time to return them all.

But there's a lot of local Hawaiian indigenous communities that says that they have a solution for it but they cannot get to go to anybody. But they're not from the University, they're not part of you guys who we. So they can't get anybody to answer their calls.

But they call me and I guess what, I don't know who I got a call for. Send them to me to find out how they can bring their information on how maybe they have a technique to, to go instead of waiting somebody else give you the method of killing these right now. Show beetles.

So that's what I would want on contact information so I can send them to you guys. Maybe you guys can try their release cuz they're on our side of the iron. But I, I cannot direct them to anybody. So that would be something that would be good too.

And then also I would like to add to that if we're asking the public to weigh in and the public to get involved, I think we really need to like level up our responses because I'm not sure which hotline 643 pest, if that's under your purview or under DOE's purview.

But since you are all on the same working group, I will say that I have had community Members contact and they just get kind of, you know, brushed off. Zero, freeze it. Zero, mail it in. zero, okay. We'll monitor it. zero this, zero that.

So there's not any clear cut answers for the public when they call as well.