Senate Standing Committee on Judiciary

Alright. Welcome everyone to the, joint committees of, the judiciary and the Senate and judiciary and Hawaiian affairs in the House. Chair Gabbard from the House I'm sorry. Chair Tarnas from the House will be leading the the house delegation. This is an informational briefing.

The purpose of the informational briefing is for the office of elections, chief election officer Scott Nagel to provide the committees with information and updates about Hawaii's election process. The briefing will address election topics that are included on the agenda. Let's see. Hold on. I guess at this point, if, Chair Tarnas, if you have any opening remarks you'd like to make, please proceed, and then I'll do the, the, you know, the boilerplate stuff to on the

Only to say thank you for organizing this from the Senate and, side, and I appreciate, that even though you're, not running again, that you're continuing your hard work as Chair of the Senate judiciary committee, committee, and I appreciate that. And, Mister Nago, thank you for very much for being here today. This is an important matter for our community, so this will be very helpful for everyone to hear.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Thank you. So the this informational briefing is being streamed live on YouTube. You can find links to viewing options for all Senate hearings and meetings on the live and on demand video page of the legislature's website, which is www.capital.hawaii.gov. In the unlikely event that we must abruptly end the briefing due to major technical difficulties, if a future date can be arranged with presenters and committees will reconvene and a public notice will be posted.

Since this is an informational briefing, only an invited speaker will provide testimony to the committees.

There will be no public testimony, though number members of the public are welcome to contact our offices with their comments and concerns. Committee members will will ask you to hold your questions until the end. My guideline is to keep the question and answer period to five minutes per person. But since not everybody's here, we can probably bend that rule. Briefing materials from today's presentation are linked from the briefing notice and will also be posted online at the Senate's JDC committee page.

And there these can be accessed on the legislature's website at capitol.hawaii.gov. As noted on the on the notice, this is a special briefing on Hawaii's election process and is purposely held being held in advance of the August 8 primary election. And we are grateful to hear from the state's top election officer, chief election officer, Scott Nago. And Mister Nago, the floor is yours.

Oh, Chair. Thank you for having me. We have what we call our explainer video that we've produced that answers all the questions most of the questions on the the agenda. This video also is what we use for voter education, as well as our media campaign.

So we it's a it's a five minute video, but we pair it down to thirty second commercials depending on where we are in the election process, such as register the registration deadline or when ballots start coming out, all those kind of things.

So with your indulgence, I would like to play the video first, and then I can go through in more detail any questions you may have.

So it sounds fine. Please proceed. Okay.

With Hawaii Votes, you can cast your vote from the comfort of your living room Chair. That's because Hawaii is a vote by mail state, so your ballot comes to you.

Great. So how do I register to vote?

That's easy. Just go to elections.hawaii.gov and have your Hawaii driver's license or Hawaii state ID ready. To register, you must be a US citizen, a resident of Hawaii, and at least 18 years old. The website also lists other ways to register.

What happens if I've moved?

If you have a new address or changed your name, go to elections.hawaii.gov to update your voter registration record. That will ensure that your ballot gets mailed to the right place.

So when are elections held?

Good question. Elections are regularly scheduled in even numbered years with a primary election in August and a general election in November you'll automatically receive a ballot packet at least eighteen days before each election if you don't contact your county elections division right away.

How do I learn more about what's on my ballot?

Before you vote, you can check out the digital voter guide to review statements from candidates and statements about ballot questions. View it online at elections.hawaii.gov.

Okay. I received my packet. How do I vote?

First, review both sides of your ballot. To vote, darken the box of your choice with a black or blue pen. If you make a mistake, contact your county elections division for a replacement ballot. Once you're done voting, place your ballot in the secrecy sleeve. Then, place a secrecy sleeve in the return envelope.

Remember, you must sign the return envelope for your ballot to be counted. After signing the return envelope, just place it in the mail. You can also look for a ballot drop box in your neighborhood by going to elections.hawaii.gov. Remember to allow enough time for your ballot to arrive by the voting deadline. To be counted, voted ballots must be received by your county elections division by 7PM on election day.

How do I know if my ballot arrives safely?

Our BallotTrax online portal can answer that. To confirm that your ballot has been received and validated, just go to elections.hawaii.gov. You can also sign up to get text, email, or voice alerts notifying you where your ballot is in the process.

What happens if I'll be away from home during the election?

No problem. Just request that an absentee ballot be sent to an alternate mailing address. Absentee voting is ideal for Hawaii residents who are vacationing, away for college, or temporarily working out of state. To request an absentee ballot, you must already be registered to vote. To register or confirm your existing voter registration record, go to elections.hawaii.gov.

Once confirmed, you can obtain a printable absentee ballot application online or pick one up from any USPS post office or public library. Be sure to submit the application to your county elections division at least seven days before the election.

Is voting in person still an option?

While most people prefer voting by mail or depositing it in a ballot drop box, voter service centers are open for voter registration and in person voting starting ten days before the election and through election day. For locations and hours, go to elections.hawaii.gov.

What about accessible voting options?

If you are disabled and unable to read standard print, you can request to have an accessible electronic ballot sent to you by email. Electronic ballots allow you to vote through your personal assistive technology from the comfort of home. To receive an accessible electronic ballot, submit a voter registration application or use the online voter registration system. Voter service centers are also a great option for voters with disabilities.

These locations are equipped with accessible voting equipment, enabling you to use assistive technologies such as tactile navigation and audio to independently mark your ballot.

I'm curious how my ballot is processed.

It's pretty cool. Once your ballot is received, the barcode on the envelope is scanned. The unique barcode allows officials to track the return of your ballot and prevents anyone from voting more than once. The signature on the envelope is compared to the signature on your voter record. If officials are unable to confirm a match, you'll be notified to fix the issue within five business days post election.

If your signature is successfully matched, your ballot packet is securely transported to the counting center. There, the envelope is opened, your voted ballot is removed from the secrecy sleeve, and is processed through vote counting scanners. After the close of voting on election night, votes are tabulated and results are released via elections.hawaii.gov.

I wanna mark my calendar. What are the important dates?

Here are the key election dates and deadlines.

Thanks. If I have more questions, who can I contact?

We're always here to help. Elections.hawaii.gov is your main starting point for voting information, including voting by mail, ballot drop box locations, and voter service center locations. You may also contact the Hawaii State Office of Elections by calling 808453 or your county elections division at these numbers. Hawaii Votes is brought to you by the State of Hawaii Office of Elections. So sit back, relax, and let your ballot come to you.

Hey. Thanks very much. I think you said you were On what? Prepared to go ahead and go through. The agenda and and sort of fill in the. I can some. Okay. Great. Go ahead.

So as far as key election dates, the important date for voters for the primary election is July 21. Voters should receive should receive their ballot in the mail by July 21. Like the video said, if you did not receive your ballot, contact your county elections division. The other key date is ballots must be received by 7PM on election day, not postmarked.

So if you're gonna wait to turn in your ballot, closer to the election day, do not put it in the mail to get to face a deposit or a drop box.

That way, it would it it almost ensures that your ballot will be received by 7PM because those boxes close at 7PM. They're collected daily. But the mail, we don't we don't control the mail, so we can't ensure that your ballot will be received by 7PM. Voter service centers for in person voting opens on July 27, and election day is August 8.

And like the video said, if your valid or your signature does not match on your return envelope, you have until August 14 to make that change.

So that's secured what we call the cured deadline. Voters whose signatures don't match will be contacted, and they will have until August 14 to to remedy that situation. And then we do the whole thing over for the general election with the same thing. Voters receive their ballot by October 16. Voter service centers open on the twentieth.

Election day is November 3. Ballots must be received by 7PM. And then the cure deadline for mismatched signatures or missing signatures is November 10.

So for the voter service centers, they're very there's there's more than one and they're open different hours. Is that correct?

For the most part, they're open the same hours. It's the pop up locations that vary in hours.

Okay. So you you make a distinction between the pop ups and the water service centers, but they they basically fulfill the same function?

Yes. It's just different hours.

And if you if you wanted to know how do you find out what the hours are for the ones that aren't the same as the voter service?

So you can go to elections.hawaii.gov. We have a map that tells you where all the drop boxes are as well as the voter service centers and the hours.

And the pop ups?

Yes. Okay. And the dates are open.

But but the pop ups don't that they don't run through election day? No. Or not all of them anyway?

Not all of them run through election day.

So it's important to check.

Check before you head down. Correct.

Okay. Go ahead.

Okay. And then as far as eligibility to vote in the state of Hawaii, we register by self subscribing affidavit. All voters need to all voters need to attest that they are a US citizen, a resident of the state of Hawaii, and at least 18 years of age to vote. You do that by filling out a voter registration, affidavit. You sign it.

If you lie on that form, it's a class c felony. Subject to class c felony. You can also go online and register to vote with a driver's license or a state ID. So voting by mail, like I said, all ballot All The ballot gets mailed to all registered voters. All registered voters receive their ballot in the mail.

It's important that if you did move, you update your registration because ballots are not affordable. So your ballot will not come to you if you don't update your registration. You can update it when you do your driver's license or you can go online at elections.hawaii.gov with a driver's license or state ID, or you can just fill out the affidavit and turn it in.

You can find the aff the forms online at [email protected], or you can also, go to a post office or state library and pick up a form. We start processing and tabulate well, we don't tabulate ballots until the 7PM on election day, but we start processing the ballots two weeks prior to the election.

So, once the ballots start we start the clerks receive it, they do the signature check, they they hand it over to us, We start processing those ballots where we open them up, we count them. We don't tabulate we don't tabulate till after the voting closes on 7PM on election day. And then recent updates to the election laws. We had three changes to the election laws. The first one is act eight, which was passed this year, which relates to vacancies.

This moved the deadline for parties to provide names in the general election from forty days to sixty days in the event of a vacancy. So, that was done because we need to meet the federal forty five day overseas requirement, and the forty days will not allow us to print ballots and mail it out. Act six was passed last session, which moves Which relates to voter registration, which moves the deadline to register by mail from thirty days to ten days.

So, previously, you had to register thirty days in advance of the election to receive your ballot in the mail. Now, it's ten days.

The That's just the deadline to receive your ballot in the mail. After the Well, nine days before the election, you can still go to a voter service center and register and vote in person. And then finally, not for this election, but act one ninety four passed this session, which would provide for an online candidate filing system for the twenty twenty eight election. And then like I said, everything is available, at elections.hawaii.gov. You can get calendar the calendar information.

You can get locations of voter service centers, locations of drop boxes, everything you need to know about elections. You can go to elections.hawaii.gov, and it's important that you get your information from a trusted source, like a .gov, and not necessarily social media because there's a lot of misdiss and malinformation out there that may or may not be correct.

Alright. I guess we'll go to questions at this point. No member's questions. Sure. Sure.

Thank you very much, Chair Rhoads. Miss Mister Nago, I I really appreciate on your website that among the many things that are on there, there's a a section on rumors versus facts, which I found very useful, because there are some folks that are continuing to assert, fraudulent activity with our elections, you know, high incidence of residents voting on ballots that are not their own, casting multiple ballots.

Go ahead.

And from my understanding and reading this confirms it that reports of high incidence of voters fraudulently casting ballots that are not their own are without merit, that that these assertions are not true. The other assertions about people who are not citizens voting, also, there is no evidence of that happening in a large scale. So could you speak to that?

Because I wanna make sure that our constituents feel confident that we're running the elections fairly and securely and that fraud doesn't happen.

So a lot of those rumors verse a lot of those rumors on that page, you you see where things we've heard bit Like, when we go to do voter education or in commission meetings or even at the legislature from testimony.

So we decided to create something where we could actually address those situations such as, I believe one of them is my cat received the ballot, and we don't know how that's possible because to register to vote, you need to have a driver's license, a state ID, or social security number. And if you don't have any of that, you can still register to vote, but you need to provide utility bills. So I don't know how something like that would be able to happen.

So we thought it was best if we address those things, that's why we created that page, that rumors versus facts page.

Just to combat some of that misinformation out there.

I appreciate that. And I know that, in we hear from some individuals, you know, questioning the veracity of the twenty twenty election, twenty twenty two election, twenty twenty four election. The disputes that were the challenges that were brought up for the previous election, I think, were adjudicated, and everything was found to be proper. Could you speak to that? Because, again, I wanna make sure that people understand what's fact and what's not.

So there is a deadline after each election. It's a contest for cause deadline where, any 20 registered voters or a candidate can file something with the Supreme Court, contesting the election based on evidence. None of those were found to be valid and all dismissed. Also, we've had numerous court cases asserting that things weren't followed or things weren't done proper. Those were also dismissed.

I mean, it's important to note that when we do our accounting in the counting center, everything is done in front of official observers, which represent different political parties. They're independent of our office. They sign they sign off on things, and it's not like we do it in, a closed room or back room of what people think. Everything is done in front of official observers by law. So that's all done in the open, and that's how we've been operating since the nineties.

I yield. I'll come back after.

Okay. Other questions? Other questions? I guess, some are somewhat unrelated. So in terms of registering, I think there's also a pre could you just talk tell us about the pre registration?

So if you're 16 years of age or older, you can register to you can pre register to vote. You will, basically fill out the form, and once you turn 18, you automatically get registered. So in this case, once you turn 18, you automatically will receive a ballot in the mail. But you still have to be 18 years of age to actually vote.

Okay. So you're not really I mean, you're you will automatically become registered 18, but you're not registered until until then.

Until you turn 18.

Okay. You also mentioned that for falsifying for falsifying is probably not the right word. For fraudulently filling out a voter registration form, it was a class you're you're on the hook for a class c felony.

Felony. Correct.

Five years in prison, $10,000 fine.

I believe it's 10 I'm not sure about the fine part, but it is I know it's a class c felony. It says it says it right there on the form also.

But it but that's per person. Right? This is not like if you had a I don't know what it you you you register as an individual. Right? So each person who did it would be on the hook.

It's so it's it's that affidavit, falsifying information on that affidavit, which is how you register. It would be a class c felony.

Okay. For one to to to possibly vote one vote?

I think it's just for registering.

Just for registering. It's not even the voting part. So it's just

I don't you don't I don't believe you're gonna have to vote. I think once you falsify anything on that form which relates to registering.

So if you if you somehow manage to get registered falsely, then if you voted, it's another penalty? Correct.

is it as big is it a class c felony again or is it a misdemeanor?

Is it

I think that becomes an election offense, which is also a felony. It's

also a felony. Okay. The tabulation. So, I mean, you don't tabulate until the night of do you wait and if there are people in standing in line at the voter service centers at seven, do you wait to tabulate until they're all on the line or can or or the statute allow you to start?

So we tabulate it, but we can't so all the statute says is you cannot release results while voting is happening. So we tabulate it closer to 07:00 so we can get ready to release the results shortly after 7PM when the last person is voting. Now, I understand that we don't end at seven, but we prepare like we will because that's when voting closes. But we still don't release till after the last person is voting.

But you can't you're not even allowed to start tabulating until fairly late in the process. Is

that correct? I don't believe there's any provision on tabulating, but we just don't do it because we don't want results to leak out.

I see. Okay. So you you put them in the right piles and

We process it, we scan it, and then we don't tabulate it, which was putting it in the results. How many

You don't run them through the machines?

We run them through machines. We just don't produce results that say candidate a got x amount of votes.

Right.

Okay. Often another tangent. Overseas for if you're overseas when you want an absentee ballot, will you mail stuff overseas or is that a different process?

So overseas voters would fill out a federal form that allows them to get their ballot forty five days in advance. Or I'm sorry. These are voters that reside overseas. If you want an absentee ballot because you're traveling out of country, we will send it.

You will send it? Yes. Okay. So we pay the postage and everything? Yes.

Okay. And then on the on you can mail it back? Is it if you if

you Yeah. But we would recommend you mail it back.

Way early.

Yeah. Because we don't know how the postal system is where you are.

So it

has to be received by 7PM, not postmarked.

Okay. Okay. All members, other questions?

I'm done.

Sir Gabbard.

Has the voter turnout changed since the Hawaii's adopted universal vote by mail?

It just depends on the election. Voter turnout isn't just driven in my opinion, voter turnout isn't just driven by the accessibility or the process of voting. I mean, it's it's it's three parts in my opinion. You have what we do is provide the the services. You also have candidates, and then you also have the voters who vote.

But I don't believe voters vote strictly because they can vote. There needs to be something that drives them to wanna vote. So, like, I can appoint you two examples. 2000, I believe it's 2008 when president Obama got elected. There was a high turnout especially in Hawaii because it was a Hawaii candidate.

2020, there was a high turnout because we're coming out of COVID or we were in COVID yet government shutdown, a lot of people lost their jobs. So it it really shows that turnout isn't driven just by the availability of voting. It there has to be candidates or or causes to vote, and that's why I mean, it helps for ours for us universal vote by mail provides accessibility, but it doesn't necessarily drive up the turnout. You need a cause to vote.

Well, typically, presidential years. Right?

Correct. Presidential years are higher turnout than not.

Numbers on the the comparisons of with the voter with the vote by mail?

So the first year in 2020, we had the highest turnout in the history. The second year, we went down, but we still had a pretty high turnout compared to polling place elections. So it's just because the turnout went down, it doesn't mean it was a failure. I mean No.

But you're not comparing the same thing. He's saying presidential years, we get more. So you compare only presidential years, and then you compare the

non presidential So what I'm trying to say is

in a non presidential year. Hasn't it gone up?

In a non presidential year, it went down, but it's still higher than when we had non presidential polls that have

gone up.

It's gone up. Yeah. Is there exactly. What people are comparing is from 2020 to 2022, it went down. And I'm seeing What

we're just saying in

general has Correct. It it has increased.

And have there been any significant election security concerns since implementing vote by mail?

You know, when we were doing the polling place elections, most people were voting by mail anyway. So, I mean, we had a higher mail turnout than we did. Or we had a higher absentee turn out than we did in person. So that's For us, it was just a matter of migrating over to mail. So it's the same process with the signature verifications, all that just for everybody rather than

Sorry sorry to interrupt this. Who is that? Yes or no?

That is a yes.

That's a yes. Okay.

Well, yeah. So what was the the question was do we

Any significant security issues?

That would be a no. There was no significant security issues because we've been doing mail for a while. Okay. Alright.

Other Members?

Yeah. Actually, I'm interested. I haven't heard the news talk about this much. Maybe it's too far out. But USPS, that whole situation, are you prepared?

What what happens if USPS is like, hey. We're not gonna put the mail out?

If they decide on their own, they're not gonna put the mail out or

If executive part. Process right now, and let's say they rules in their favor eventually. What happens in Hawaii if that comes to be?

So right now, so this would only apply to the general election. Right now the the proposed USPS rules for the mail was enjoined by the NAACP versus USPS case. So basically, it prevents the USPS from implementing those rules to prevent or to require the states to provide a list of voters to the USPS before they mail it.

But word but then US but USPS let me back up. USPS, there's an executive order from the federal administration, then USPS was like, yeah, we're gonna we're not gonna deliver unless this happens. And then it was challenged.

It was challenged. And then

they appealed that. And then What if that continues to go? Are you saying it's done?

My understanding is it's very unlikely, because it's been enjoined by the court, and I don't know if there'd be enough time for a court to it would affect the whole nation. So I don't know if there's enough time for the court to actually, overturn that. Okay.

If you want, I'll follow-up on that. So what what was it that the that the state was being required?

So this

so in order for The US to to send out ballots via USPS, the states are required to provide the voter registration list to the USPS and they would validate whether or not these were bona fide voters or residents or citizens.

How how would the Federal Government know how whether these were bona fide voters or register?

That I'm not sure. I my understanding is there's not a list of all US citizens, so I don't know how they would have scrubbed that list to make sure that they are.

Okay. But you're under I mean, there's been litigation with regard to that too. Right? You you've already you're the Federal Government has demanded from you and from numerous other states that you turn over your unredacted voter registration list. Correct?

Correct. So the DOJ has sued the state to turn over our voter registration list on, I believe, it's April 6. The honorable judge Kobayashi state the case pending to related appeals in the ninth circuit based on California and Oregon. So California, Oregon is being appealed after the judge upheld the

They have similar systems, so I suppose that makes some sense. But going back to Senator Hua's question, I mean, if if if we had a black swan event and the courts eventually ruled that we that we how do how would this how would this play out if if they said that the well, let's just say sort of the how how to keep it in the realm of reality.

So we didn't if the state did not comply if if if if we determined and the courts determined that we did not have to comply with the order to turn over the the unredacted voter registration, which seems pretty likely because they've lost everywhere as far as I can tell, like, nine or 10 suits.

I don't believe any suit prevailed.

Okay. But so then if they said, alright. Then we're just not gonna we're not gonna mail ballots this year because you guys didn't provide the list. The court said you didn't have to, but we don't care. We're not gonna we're not gonna we're not gonna allow USPS because it's two separate things.

Right? We're not gonna allow USPS to deliver ballots. Then what happens?

You know, now you're we're we're talking about USPS not delivering mail, which I find not realistic that they would not deliver mail because they're they're charged with delivering mail. That's their permission.

Isn't that what the isn't isn't that what the proposed rule is suggesting?

No. The rule is that we would have to turn over our list.

That's what I'm saying. If we refuse to turn over the list and the court backs us up and says you don't have to turn over the list.

And then USPS would just say that we're not delivering mail. That's just a unilateral decision that USPS would make. That would I I have a hard time believing that's reality because

It doesn't matter what you believe. You're you're you're running the office and Yeah. You know, every election that I've been watching from reporter to now, there's been problems. There's been problems.

Yeah.

Whether it's been a long time, a six hour one that I waited in the last time a couple of weeks.

I won't get into it with you directly. I'm sorry.

Thank you. But there's always, in my opinion, the six hour line, that's a problem. Okay? So we can leave it at that, something very simple. So there's always been problems.

And my my thing over here is, man, you're running it. And if you're sitting here telling me, that's an option, but we don't think it would ever happen, but you're not prepared in the office to do something, then that's a problem for us. So what what is it gonna be?

So it's a hypothesis.

There has to be a there has to be we live in hypotheticals in this building. Every time somebody comes in front of us for a bill, I hear a hypothetical reason of why to pass or why not.

So let me hear it.

It's a hypothetical question that I do we we don't deal with hypotheticals. We have to deal we have to provide the services. Our passion is to provide convenient accessible services to the voters and that's what we have to do. So we're not gonna deal with the hypotheticals until their reality.

It's too late though. That's what happens in the six hour line. Because we didn't expect this many people to show up.

Let me ask.

That's not hypothetical. It's reality. It happens every cycle.

Well, let me ask us a related question that's not necessarily a friendly question. I'm just saying that if but it it say the hypo say the hypothetical occurs and the USPS just refuses to deliver ballots. Is there any I mean, even if you wanted there to be a plan b, is there a possible plan b? Because if you talk you know, talking about six hour waits now, if you had 200,000 people trying to vote at voter service centers

I mean, there's two options. You could open a more voter service centers, or you could find a different way to deliver the mail, which would be not the federal or not the USPS, but that's also gonna be a a very expensive

Like FedEx or

FedEx or UPS or some kind of courier system.

But last so the first part of what you said In the event of of a situation happening, you guys can, at last minute, open up polling places to make it happen?

I mean, we're gonna have to.

Is there money? Is there is

We're gonna have to do something because, like I said, our mission is to provide convenient, accessible, secure election services. So that is we're we're committed to do that. So if if it comes down to that, that's something we're gonna have to do.

But what what is it possible? I mean, of course, I I just let me let me ask you a on on on a somewhat unrelated question. So you said that the the primary elections was not covered by the proposed rule. So did they indicate is there any if you would have they have you been told that there's a a different level of concern for security in the primary versus the general?

I believe it doesn't apply to the primary because other states already had their primary. So it wouldn't so they.

So they just started too late and so.

So that it's gonna only apply nationwide to the general.

As far as you know, there's no indication that there's a a different level of risk for primaries versus generals.

I don't believe it's that's the reason why because it's primaries are primaries and generals are more important. I don't think it's that. I think it's just the fact that states already had their primary and to to hold some states to a different standard would not be fair.

Okay. I'm sorry. I've been going all the time. Other other questions?

Well, just on the same topic, if if the US Postal Service unilaterally decides that they're not gonna deliver mail, you do have that backup already in place where we have a mail ballot drop boxes that are located throughout the state. And so people could choose not to put it in the mail, but they could put it into the drop box.

Correct. So we would have to figure out a way to get the ballots out to the voters.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, delivering the ballots if but that's that's that's delivering into the individuals. But if the problem is that if USPS decides that they're not going to process the ballots that the voters have, you know, filled out and and put in the mail, well, the option is

You can you can certainly get that.

Fill out the ballot and put it into a ballot drop box Correct. Of which there are many throughout the state.

Yes.

But they gotta get their ballot.

Yes. Yeah.

No. They gotta get their ballot.

So for getting the ballot, it I mean, your current budget certainly I'll I'll ask the question. Sorry. I don't mean to presume. Does your current budget have enough money to contract with FedEx? No.

What what kind of have you do you have any idea how much that would cost?

We have not looked into that yet, but off the top of my head, FedEx is a lot more expensive than and, also, I don't know if FedEx even has the capabilities. So it would have to be more it might have to be more than one courier service. Because FedEx yeah. I mean

The biggest mail delivery system is the USPS.

I just see.

Yeah. So, I mean, has has there been any indication that that that that the whole goal of this exercise at the federal level is to not have elections? Because if if you don't if there's no if there's no realistic plan b, then the other thing that could happen is we just won't have an election.

That's not something that's crossed our mind. Like I said, our mission is to provide secure accessible community election services. So to say that maybe there may not be an election is not something we ever thought about.

So as far as you're concerned, there

will be an election? There will be an election.

Okay.

There has to be an election by law for us.

Okay. But so you might have to come back to this body and say we had to spend Correct. $50,000,000 to

Or maybe we'd have to get the attorney general to file a lawsuit to force USPS. I mean, there's there's options.

Okay. Alright. Well, I I happen to agree with you. I think it's a very unlikely scenario, especially the way the the court cases have fallen so far. But I do think you probably better start thinking about the worst case scenarios because what the government is threatening is that they will not mail the ballots, and that would throw a serious monkey wrench in your in your efforts to have an election.

Yes. That's why we talked a lot. Came from hypothetical to real In this conversation.

May I ask another question?

Of course.

Okay. So on, this whole issue in today's paper, what such time here you are attending to us today, and we've got, you know, headlines in the paper, a couple different articles. One of them is about how the justice department sent letters to all 50 states and the District Of Columbia threatening criminal prosecution of top election officials if ballots cast by noncitizens were counted in upcoming elections. We haven't had a a problem here with non citizens voting.

Is that accurate?

We haven't had a widespread problem. We did have an issue on Maui where a non citizen voted. We turned it the Maui County clerk turned it over to authorities for for proper investigation or proper, what you might call it, disposition. But we haven't had a widespread instance of non citizen warning. Like I said, you need to you need to attest that you are a US citizen when you registered a vote.

How was that person caught?

I believe they admitted they weren't a citizen. They they wanted their voting they want my understanding is they wanted their voting records because they wanted to apply for citizenship, and that's when it was alert.

So you're, you've been requested by the Department of Justice to respond within five days about how we're intending to comply. Now we've always complied with federal law saying that noncitizens cannot vote.

Correct. State law as well as federal law prohibits noncitizens from voting in Hawaii. Yeah. And we do comply with federal law. Complying with law is not optional.

So we wouldn't.

we would have to comply, and we would we would basically respond that we would be in compliance.

Yeah. And if people have to fill out and sign an affidavit that they are citizen, and that's if they falsify that, then.

It's a class c felony.

A class c felony.

And it's a state law that says that you register by self subscribing affidavit.

And this is all consistent with federal law?

So the federal laws leaves it to the states.

So that's just that's the thing. I mean, it's important for everyone to understand. The constitution lays it out. The states are responsible for elections. Correct.

So if And we're responsible for the voter roles.

Correct. And I gotta follow both federal and state law. Yeah. So to not have a self subscribing affidavit, we go against state law. K.

K. Members, other questions? Well, I think that covers most of the ground I had hoped to cover. Is there anything is there any sort of takeaway that you would like to put out there for the vote put out there for voters since we're you you said the the the ballots were supposed to arrive for the primary by the twenty first? Yes.

So if you did not receive your ballot so the ballots are gonna be put in the mail stream on the fifteenth and sixteenth of July. We do that because we don't have control over the USPS. We also send ballots on non profit. So it doesn't mean it's necessarily gonna be mailed the next day. So we have to put in that buffer time, which the USPS may or may not.

So you may get your ballot earlier, but we say, if you don't receive it by the twenty first, give your county clerk a call because there's maybe something wrong with your registration because ballots are not affordable. If you had moved or changed your name or anything, that ballot will not get to you and you won't get it. It's not affordable. So that's why call your county clerk up county clerk's office up or go online to elections.hawaii.com to see if your registration is current.

And also sometimes things do get lost in the mail.

So they will send you a replacement ballot. Second, for voters, use blue or black ink pen. If you make a mistake, do not use white out. There is a depending on the county, there's a phone number or a URL on the ballot. If you make a mistake to call or to go to to request a replacement ballot.

But do not line it out, do not cross it out. The machine will read it as a mark. Machine is not subjective, it's objective. You know, so on our website, there is a link to the candidate guide. It's also on the the instructions on the ballot.

You can go to that to see who your candidates are and read upon your candidates before you vote.

Could you also speak to the tracking software that Yes. People can use, which I have found from numerous constituents really made them feel a lot more confident.

So right now, you can go to our website and sign up for what we call ballot tracks. That will send you alerts via voice, email, or text, when your ballot is being mailed out. And then once you get your ballot, when you return it, it will tell you if the clerk's office received it, if it was accepted, and if it's forwarded for process for county.

Also, if your signature doesn't match, it will alert you there too, so you have until, you know, that cure period to to fix that.

So I would urge all the constituents who are concerned that they use ballot tracks because then you can really follow your own ballot.

And you'll know when your ballot if a ballot is mailed to you and when you should be receiving it. Yeah. As well as when you mail it back, whether or not the clerk's office received it and processed it and accepted it.

So the cure period is you know, we talked about you have to have your ballot in by 7PM on the to the last day of the election. Yes. But the cure period can go beyond that if

So the cure period, your ballot still needs to be received by 7PM. However, if it's missing a signature, you have five business days to correct that. And Okay. So if

you don't discover the mistake until the day before the election

Yeah. So I mean, if you voted early, they'll they'll still alert you when they when your signature doesn't match.

Right.

But it's if you voted on the last day, you still have a period of time.

Still got the five days. Yep. Okay. When is the the online voter registration guide available online?

So it should be up shortly when ballots arrive. Right now, we have a coming soon banner. So but it will be up when balloted households are ballots are mailed out. Okay.

So So that should be let's see. Today is this eighth, seventh, seventh, eighth. So about ten days from now, probably.

Yeah. Hopefully sooner.

Hopefully sooner. Okay. Okay.

Well, just one last comment. I know that there's a lot of pressure that election workers feel, and they've been getting, you know, criticized. And I just want to say thank you to you and your election staff and all the volunteers and the paid folks who come in just as seasonal workers to assist you. It's not an easy job. And and I it's unfair that they're harassed.

So I just wanted to express my appreciation for you and your team.

Thank you. And I I mean, I wanna express my appreciation for the volunteers because those are just citizens from the community, and they're just providing a service, and then they get harassed like that. And I and that's the part that really affects me personally because they're just trying to help. And to be accused of things, I I don't think that's right.

Just chime in.

Okay. Go ahead, please. If people didn't have to wait in the six hour line to start, maybe they wouldn't be harassing the workers. And we love the workers.

There's good workers. I go into the office of election. You guys got good stuff. But if I can say anything, please fix that.

So can can I can I say one thing about those six hour lines? If you wanna vote on the last day, that's your prerogative. Right? That's your choice. You can make that choice.

I'm not saying don't do it, but I'm saying do two things. And it's not for us, it's for the people behind you in line. Check your motor registration to make sure you're current because if you're not current, you have to update it there. It's like going into a store and you're waiting in line to purchase the catalogs and the person in front of you has a return.

Now they gotta call a manager, they gotta do a key flick, they gotta do all that stuff which holds up the line.

So so make sure your registration is current so things can flow smoother. Second, go to the online, the digital voter guide, at least so you know who you're voting for, who's on your ballot, and the first time you see the names won't be on when you get your ballot in the booth. Because that also can take a long time, especially in the general election when there's a lot of charter or amendment questions.

Like, study up, make sure you actually see who or what the questions are before going into the booth. That way it will it will I'm about to say it's gonna get rid of the six hour line, but at least it will speed up the process, or help speed up the process.

Wish it was a better answer because you're only putting it on the people, but

So are there. The voting places the polling places are run by the counties. Right? Correct.

In person voting is the responsibility of each individual county.

So the counties, if they chose to, could add the number of voting places if they choose to add to the voter service centers if they choose to.

I mean, we have legislation that would provide them assistance from the state to do so. And so they have the authority already to

Correct.

do so. Correct.

So

it's up it's really up to the county. It's up

to the county.

So the counties are responsible for voter registration, mailing and receiving the ballot, and in person voting. And the state is responsible for, counting the ballots, printing the ballots, and voter education.

Yeah. So I just wanna make sure constituent constituents understand the responsibilities in how we run these elections.

But it's all in the same. It's all in the same bowl. We're all, you know, in government, we're not in silos and not to debate. But here's what I would like I'd like to have seen when those county clerks came in front of us in the judiciary this past session, and they all said, we don't need the money to open up more polling places.

I wish you would have been there and been we could use it actually because it would take the burden off of our staff.

Maybe it make people a little bit happier. Maybe we'd both can work together and make this process a little more fair, for time. Now we're gonna get into the controversies, but people's time. Okay. Just for the record.

Thank you.

Anything else?

No. That's it for me.

Alright. Thank you very much for being here. Thanks everyone for

being here and watching on Zoom, and we are adjourned.