Senate Standing Committee on Water, Land, Culture and the Arts

Good afternoon. We're convening the committee on water, land, culture, and the arts on our 2PM agenda here in State Capital Conference Room 224 on GM 742, submitting for consideration and confirmation to excuse me,

submitting for consideration and confirmation as the chairperson of the Maunakea Stewardship and Oversight Authority, gubernatorial nominee John Komeiji for a term to expire 6/30/2029.

For everyone in the audience or online, the way we'll do this is we'll, take testimony from those who submitted testimony.

We'll run through that and then open up for any questions. And then after that, we'll afford the nominee an opportunity to come say a few words and then go into, further questions there.

There. So with that, why don't we move into testimony on GM 742 signed up first to testify is the Maunakea's stewardship and oversight authority. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Senator DeCorte, Senator Richards. My name is John De Fries, Executive Director of the Maunakea Stewardship and Oversight Authority. I stand by the, testimony that was submitted and advancing John Kumeiji, into full confirmation. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Signed up next on Zoom is the Canada France Hawaii Telescope Corporation.

Aloha, Chair Lee, Vice Chair Inouye, Members of the committee. I stand by my written testimony, but I would like to emphasize that from from the beginning, John Kumeiji wanted to do things the Hawaiian way. I don't claim to be in a position to judge what the Hawaiian way is.

What I can say is that the method used and involve listening, respect and building relationships with the local community and with the Maunakea observatories.

A trust is being built on both sides which is essential for a transition of this complexity and sensitivity.

So this in my view indicates that the process is moving in the right direction under Chair Kumeiji 's leadership. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Sign up next is Maunakea Observatories. Good afternoon.

Hello, Chair Lee, Senators, Iliha Johnson for the Maunakea observatories. You have our written testimony in strong support of John Komeiji continuing his hard work as volunteer chair of the Maunakea Stewardship and Oversight Authority.

Just wanted to emphasize and add a little to our written testimony that John Komeji has been there every time that we've called. He's been very fair in listening to our concerns. He's been great out there in the community.

I have seen him on kawaii all the way back to to Hilo, out there fairly listening and working really, really hard to make the Maunakea authority a success. We're very grateful for his volunteer service, and we encourage you to consider him for another term. Mahalo Nui.

Thank you. Up next is Noenowi Wong Wilson. Good afternoon.

Aloha. Aloha, everybody. Mahalo, Chair and Members of the committee, Members of the Senate. I'm Noenway Wong Wilson, first Vice Chair of Maunakea Stewardship and Oversight Authority.

I have submitted my own individual testimony, and want to urge you to please confirm John Komeji as, for another term as our Chair under his leadership and along with the rest of the members of the authority.

I think this is the most, cohesive board or organization I have ever worked under, especially tackling such a huge emotional and important issue like the protection and care of Maunakea and such diverse considerations and attitudes from all the different entities involved in activities on Maunakea.

And he has been a really strong and steady hand in keeping all of us, focused on what our end goal is, which is to make sure that we set the foundation for Act 255 the way that is prescribed by the legislature and that we do it in a way that is,

going to preserve our mana for generations, but also to make sure that we consider all considerations and all efforts. So mahalo nui.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We also have testimony from the Office of the Governor, Chamber of Commerce, Ashford and Reston, and a number of individuals. Is there anyone else wishing to testify this afternoon? Looks like we have Mr. Matsuda online.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Chair Lee, Senators. My name is Rich Matsuda. I'm with Authority as a second vice chair and also, director of the in Wai'Mahon Maunakea. And speaking as an individual today, I submitted written testimony.

I just wanted to make a couple additional points. One was, to recognize how divided our community was back, especially in the 2019, 2020 timeframe and really evidenced by people really not listening to each other.

And what I want to call out is the 16 community workshops that we've had, and Chair Komeiji has made it a point to be at these meetings. And at the conclusion of every meeting, he puts the members of the authority at the front of the room for Q and A with the community,

really setting the example for transparency and honesty. And he's always played a really neutral role in those meetings. And I think the community has left by and large, left these meetings feeling more open minded and heard.

And then the second point is I think there's a lot of pressure right now for advancing observatory leases because of the challenging timeline.

And Chair Komeiji has been very careful to those concerns and try to move the ball forward without kind of, while still honoring what the authority is meant to do and do things in the right order. So an example of this is

I guess if you could if you could summarize, Mr. Matsuda.

Okay. Yeah. Just, initiating the comprehensive EIS. So I urge that he be, confirmed. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Is there anyone online? IT?

No one else is present, Chair.

Thanks. Alright, thank you everybody. Before we go to our nominee, are there any questions for anyone who's testified so far? All right. Thank you everybody. Mr. Komeiji, if you'd like to come forward. Good afternoon.

Afternoon. Afternoon, Chair Lee, Members of the committee, and other senators. John Komeiji, current Chair of the Maunakea Authority.

First, I wanted to, thank all of you for, having this hearing on a recess day. I know some of you had to make extra effort to get here. So I appreciate that.

Also appreciate, this committee passing out our bill 2592, and I know that the Chair and others put a lot of work into that. So for that, that's gonna make our job or streamline some of the things that we have to do for our job, so I appreciate that.

I wanna start from a big picture standpoint, and I don't have too much to talk about. But I wanted to first recognize that it was the legislature that created MKSOA.

And what the legislature did when you passed act 255 was to create a process where you invited people that didn't have voice to the table, not only in an advisory capacity, but actually giving them votes. Right?

So you actually we're trying something that is very new, but that was at the instance institution of the legislature to give voice with the hope that when you bring people that don't have voice and you have competing interest,

that you'll have conversations and that you will come to some kind of, collective, way forward. What what we've tried to do and what I've tried to do is to, first of all, build trust and respect between the various members of the authority.

I joke about i-, but I'm gonna squeal on her again. But, when I first met Noinoi Wong Wilson, who I didn't know, first thing she asked me is like, who are you? Why are you here? So I knew I had a uphill battle.

So I decided to call her every day and bug her till she gave up. But the point is that she and I have this really close relationship, and we're really honest, really transparent.

We may not agree on things, and that's what we've we've been able to do with all of the authority members where we have a platform where people can disagree, you know, professional manner, so to speak,

and try to figure out how are we going to move collectively as a state, as an island, as an authority, move forward to kind of address one, in my opinion, the most divisive issue that has surfaced during my lifetime.

So what what I wanted to do is to first thank you guys for setting up that process because if you go back to 2019, there was no process. There was no way to kind of in in involve that. One of the ways we've done it is to increase communication.

Increase communication with the University of Hawaii, increase communication with Kiai, increase communication with all. Because the only way, in my opinion, that you develop trust and respect is by communicating.

So what we've tried to do is to create a platform to increase communication. But in addition to that, we've actually done some, you know, when when when I started, we had nobody. And I mean, nobody, just me.

And we had to try and stand up a new state agency, which hasn't been done in twenty, thirty years. So I leaned on some of the people in this building to help me, West Machida.

I call you out and just want a really helpful people to help me, try to figure out how even to hire somebody. What was the process to, do job descriptions? How do we get the job descriptions approved? How do we then feel? So it's like really starting off from basics.

So we've we've we've gone from there to having now full time staff members and executive director. We are in the process of, we sent an RFP, done by, Lloyd, when he was saying who's here with us today.

He created an RFP so that we could hire a consultant to start doing a master plan. Act 255 requires us to do a master plan. So we've started with our master plan. We're on track to get a draft sometime in the second or, the third or fourth quarter of this year.

We're gonna take that draft, massage it, then take it out for community input. And then at some point, adopt the master plan. And then at the same time, we're trying to do rules and regulations.

That's why your actives the bill that you passed is so important because it takes a long time to do rules and regulation. But, anyway, we're on that. We also understand the need to start the discussion about leases for the astronomy for the observatories.

People forget that act 255 says that we are to, the state policies to support astronomy. We take that very seriously, and we're not trying to put in we as an authority are not trying to put in our own, definition of what the state policy is.

So we understand that leases for the observatories terminate in 2033, and we're doing what we can to advance that as fast as we can. And towards that end, the board unanimously approved us doing a comprehensive EIS because it's a lease.

We know that we're gonna need a EIS. So in front of doing everything, we are, starting the discussion about what is the most appropriate way to, retain a consultant to help us do EIS. So we're moving.

Sometimes we're not moving as fast as people want us to move. But all of you know that sometimes and it's not in any particular person, but just the regulations that surround the state sometimes make it very difficult to move as quickly as one would like.

But we're doing the best we can. The other thing that I know there's a concern about is how fast we're able to hire people. And I would make two points to all of you. Because of the controversial nature, of Mauna Kea and some of the pushback that people had.

There's not a line of people. Every time we try to hire somebody, there's not a line of people lining up to become part of this controversy. So sometimes it takes us a long time because we have to kind of massage it and make sure we have a pool of applicants.

The second thing is that, we always hire the most qualified person, from that applicant pool. But if it's a small pool, we have to do with what we've gotta do. I mean, we have to hire.

And because of the timeline, we don't there's pressure for us to hire from that pool. Right? So we hire from the pool. We hire for and we hire people that we think are going to contribute in whatever way they can to moving us forward.

So with that, I, again, thank all of you for, your time, your listening, and your patience. I think collectively we're well, I know collectively we're moving forward. What it ends up being, I'm not sure where we end up being, but we're gonna do it as a group. And that's that's all I can promise you. Thank you.

Thank you. Other questions? Senator DeCorte.

Since you had kind of brought up the recruitment comment, what is your folks' strategy to recruit? Because like how you said it, it's not very much of an attractive position, But I believe that the people that we're looking for aren't necessarily attending job fairs or at these,

they're not going on the state website applying for these jobs. Like they're on ina, they're working, they're hustling. So what is your folks' alternative to recruitment?

So we previously have kinda used the state template. Right? And we're knowing that we gotta change. So we have maybe four to six jobs coming up. So we're looking at different ways now about how we're gonna try to recruit and how we get the word out.

Part of it is word-of-mouth in in in that we ask our authority members, do you have people in your circle that that may be interested, please let them know. But we we have to get a more focused thing to try to attract other people. Right? So that's what we're gonna try to do.

Okay. So basically, it's word-of-mouth.

Well, we use a state, you know, the the regular state processes too. But to to augment that, we use word-of-mouth and also trying to get people. But I think we might have to do stuff like maybe take out an ad or something different. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm gonna pivot a little bit, Chair, if you don't mind, is when you had mentioned that the original formation of this group was to basically ensure that our community has a voice. We allow input.

This the accomplishment of this authority board will determine whether we can continue to do authority boards.

So there's a lot of what I would consider to be pressure on you folks to make sure that this works to ensure that we could use it as a platform on other very important issues that directly impact our native Hawaiian community.

And so I think that the voice being on the table is one thing, but getting things done is a whole other thing. And so with your folks' transitional plan coming up in 2028, primarily I want to talk about your guys' financial plan because act 255 requires a financial plan

to make the transitional period. So do you do you guys have at least something that you can give us today that has any kind of generating revenue Okay.

No. That's what see, that's the balance rate. Well, it's gonna be addressed partly by our master plan. And let me just not correct something, but add that I think the original idea of act 255 was to get community voice. That was one thing.

But it was also put to put we always talk about putting the mauna in the middle. Right? So that what is good for the mauna is the base, the center of what we should be doing and the perspective that we should be looking at.

But getting back to your plan, that's part of the least issue. Right?

But the problem the challenge is is that because Maunakea is is so, in different people's minds, culturally sensitive, spiritually sensitive, you cannot what do you do to increase revenue without compromising the sustainability and the ecology?

Right? Part of it is to increase rent. Right? But is that going to be enough to generate the kind of revenue you talked about? But you have this the push and pull of that. If we let's say we want more revenue so we increase tourists.

Right? That that doesn't work because that's not the balance that we want. So that's the difficulty in coming to a financial plan that balances all these different kind of concerns here.

Yeah. But then making any changes to the leases, whether it new or renegotiating, we cannot do that until after the after 2028. Right?

We can start now. And that's what I'm

Oh, you can start the negotiation.

Well, part of what we're doing is that that's why we're doing the EIS. And then we have to figure out, do we need to charge what is fair market value for that land?

And if you charge what fair market value, how do you determine or how does a appraiser determine for this kind of unusual property? What fair market there's no comp what what is the comparables?

Right? What what what are you gonna use for comparables? So it's a really complex thing that we've started talking to people at DLNR, for example, about how do you guys value land such as this.

But we can start doing some preliminaries thinking and exploration to figure try to figure this out.

Yeah. Because financial sustainability is a part of act 255.

K. So

Speed at.

What it not to be a lawyer, which I am, but it says what act 255 says is that you should strive to get a financial, a self sustaining plan, basically.

Well, I mean, there's gonna be operational costs.

Oh, no. That's so.

So you guys have to do it. Whether you strive for it, people actually pay money.

But people don't realize now is, although the lease says they pay a dollar, the observatories pay for much of the the operational cost now. What they do is they figure out what a budget is for maintenance of the roads, keeping Hale Po'aku,

and then they split the observatory, split up those costs among themselves to pay for that now. So there is a large portion currently that is being paid by the observatory's force for operations that they need for their operations.

And is that revenue still gonna be going to you folks?

Yes, so that's part of the that's part of the negotiation rate. Yeah. The challenge now just as we sit here today is a cut in federal funding. So one thing we didn't talk about, but

How much federal funding is getting cut?

That there's going to be a $4,000,000 hole in the operational budget for CMS. So we have entered into an MOA, and we're waiting board of regents approval to utilize the funds that you have allocated to us to make up that gap in funding for the next fiscal year.

Because what's happened is they've been cut back. They used to get overhead and money from tuition, which they're not getting anymore. So, anyway, the university has a big gap.

So we've worked with the university to enter into an MOA, which our board, again, has unanimously approved, to move forward with that.

Okay. Thank you, deputy chair.

Yeah. Other questions?

Maybe a follow-up on, Senator DeCorte's questions. You know, I understood that at the beginning of, the MKSOA's startup That you originally requested a number of positions from the legislature.

Can you provide kind of a brief update as to what Harabedian, you know, were those positions provided, not provided? And if not, what did you do in the meantime to address that?

So part of what the challenge was is that we we got those positions from the legislature, but we as we move forward and as things develop, we had to repurpose, and we're still in the process of repurposing what those positions are.

Because the need we find that the needs are not the needs immediately that that were identified. So that that that's kinda on me and some of the people I was talking to about the original position descriptions, but we're trying to repurpose those.

We also have other positions that we've created. There's there's a statute that allows for you to do special project positions if the governor signs off.

The governor has signed off, so we're gonna get special project positions. I mean, the special project positions though are stuff like, how do we create an IT or how do we transfer from UH's IT system to our system?

Right? How do we develop our own HR system? I mean, it's, like, from a to z that we gotta do. So it's it's a matter of repurposing and trying to figure out what we need as we go along.

Okay. Given the short time frame in which the board is to execute all of these different functions while you're kind of running down the road, it almost sounds as though in a way the kinds of special treatment that we have for different state employees or retired state

employees with specialized skills would be a logical set of choices for your agency to use because a lot of what you described really involves a lot of other agencies, and it's not necessarily something of your creation, but what you have to deal with.

And so you had mentioned Lloyd Unipassami had been retained for some specific purposes. Do you see the need for other individuals, say, people like Lloyd with specialized skills, either financial or IT or any of the other areas.

But because it seems in a way, as you're trying to move forward to get your, consultants on board for the master plan, you almost also have to manage the operational and implementation side. At the same time, you're moving

Yeah.

In a different direction. And it doesn't sound as though you have adequate or enough both bodies and or expertise to assist you. And

Yeah. So that's the problem. Right? We're literally building the car as we're going down the road at 70 miles an hour. Literally, that's what we're doing.

Right? So you're right. And we try to look at as many different avenues as we can to hire people. But we can use people that more familiar with the system. Right?

But getting through because we're an attached agency. For example, with DLNR, we stand in line, with the other DLNR depart divisions to get our things through the system. And it's not fair, and I get from the DLNR's position,

you cannot jump just because you have a the legislature set a timeline for you. So we try to figure out creative ways, and we figure and I don't wanna tell what that is, but we figured out a creative way to sort of get in front of the line.

But we're trying to be as creative as we can to to fill those positions. We feel the pressure as much as as anybody in terms of, getting the appropriate people on board, the our team.

Because if I say it, other people might do the same thing.

Because we can certainly see the need for, you know, some sort of interim structure to assist your authority. You know, with expertise from a range of either state, county, and other.

Government experiences to assist you as you get to the point where you have that comprehensive master plan.

Also, I mean, you can talk internally about trying to get loaned employees. Right?

I mean, that kind of stuff. But and I tell you this truck this car is going pretty fast, man. But I appreciate your thoughts and your concerns. But we just know that we have those concerns, and we're trying to look at as many different ways as we can.

Right.

Further questions?

I've got some.

Senator Richards.

Okay. Thank you. John, you and I have worked together and talked at great length about Molokan. And I appreciate the fact, Noenoy, you come in and and making the statements you have.

Recurrent words that whether in testimonies stated stewardship, collaborative, respect, trust, integrity, relationships.

All of that takes time, and one of the concerns we have is how are we on timeline? Like you said, you're building the car at 70 miles an hour while you're driving 70 miles an hour. And then it comes back using the balance. You're talking about. How are we gonna get there?

Because I admire how you're crafting this and put together and and I've I've stated this before. This is in the truest sense of. Not exactly sure the destination, but you're having that conversation. So how are we gonna get that?

I feel pretty confident that we're gonna be able to get our master plan in place on the timelines that you guys have established for us as well as, getting the leases started and to a point where we the observatories will feel comfortable that we've actually gotten

to a point where they have some assurance that they're gonna get a lease. So overall, I think we're moving we're picking up momentum now.

It's like anything at the beginning is slow, and then at some point, you start ramping up. So I think that we're ramping up as and so I'm I guess my point is I'm confident that we're gonna hit the milestones that we need to hit.

Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Chair.

Further questions? Thanks. Just building on some of the questions on timeline. If there's gonna be any sort of unforeseen circumstance that causes or an ongoing circumstance, maybe it's the transfer of IT.

Something along the way that starts to become a challenge that becomes clear that there would be a delay or impediment to the transition timeline. What does your protocol look like for that?

At what point do you raise that flag?

Well, part of it is is a continuing conversation. Right? So so we'll keep on talking to the board like we have this impediment, whatever.

At some point, if we have to come back to the legislature to ask and explain why we may need additional time, we'll come back to the legislature. There's no specific plan.

We haven't developed specific plans if the IT system doesn't work. I mean, we're not able to convert on the IT system. We haven't gotten to that point. Sure. It could be in any of the.

Yeah. Yeah. No. I but we haven't we haven't gotten to a point to create any kind of contingency plans yet because we think that we're on track.

Is there anything, on the federal side that you'd see as a, potential variable?

Well, we don't exactly know what TMT is going, and that partly involves federal.

But so far as, I mean various other federal regulatory agencies, things like that.

I don't see that. The big federal thing was if PMT was they were gonna hold separate hearings for that that sort of is necessary, but in a way, a distraction also. If they had TMT, they would create all these, hearings across the islands, which kind of gets things all up,

browse things up and causes us to have to divert attention. But there's nothing specific in terms of any federal agencies that we have to worry about.

Yeah. And then secondly, one of the potential nominees for the board withdrew a week or two ago. As far as having the actual capacity within the commission to go and execute all these various things that need to happen, What what was your plan to to address that?

He Paul is really involved. We have a subgroup that is involved at reviewing all of the assets that UHS to transfer to us, led by Ben Kudel, who's one of our another authority members. I mean, literally, every asset, forks, spoons, leases, permits, etcetera.

They are that they are in the process of creating a report that should be given to us in the next couple of months. Paul, who withdrew, was part of of that group that was reviewing all of that.

So we're waiting to see who gets nominated. There was a Senate president's nominee, but we we can proceed along with Ben leading the group. We have a outside consultant helping us to review all those assets.

So although there's a hole, we can still proceed on on the main project that he was working on.

As far as the consultant contracts go for, what's currently in place or other needs as they arise

Yep.

How does the funding situation, potentially account for do you and let me ask you this way. Do you have a financial platform that would account for those uncertain potential future liabilities as they come up?

Yeah. So what we've tried to do is even this year, we tried to accelerate contracts as fast as we can so that we can encumber funds because we're not sure what might happen next year.

But currently, based upon our calculations about what we anticipate getting next year, if it's on the same level, be tight, but we should be able to get all of our consult our EIS consultants. We already have encumbered money for our master plan consultants.

So we feel pretty good about funding if it stays at the similar tact that it does now.

Yes. So part of what we're trying to do is rush before May, whatever, to encumber as much as we can, understanding that there may be additional pressures next year.

That includes contingency.

Any further questions? Alright. Hearing none. Thank you very much. We're gonna. Take a recess.

For this measure, for GM 742 submitting for consideration and confirmation as the chairperson of the Manakea Stewardship and Oversight Authority, gubernatorial nominee, John Komeiji, for a term to expire 6/30/52029 .

Hi. Good afternoon. We're reconvening the committee on Water, Land, Culture, and the Arts on our 2pm Agenda here in State Capitol Conference Room 224 on GM 742. Appreciate everybody who, took the time today.

The recommendation is to advise and consent. Any discussion?

Hearing none, acting Vice Chair.

Okay. Voting members voting on GM 742forty two, Chair's recommendation is to advise and consent. [Roll Call] Chair, your measure is adopted.

Thank you. With that, we're adjourned.