Senate Standing Committee on Agriculture and Environment

Calling the joint hearing of HHS, Health Health and Human Services, and Labor Technology. With me is my Co-Chair, Senator Elefante, and Senator Lamosao. And hopefully, we'll have the others soon. Okay. First up, our meeting is being streamed live on YouTube.

In the unlikely event that we must abruptly end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business later on Friday, March 27, 2026 at 1pm, Room 225, and a public notice will be posted on the legislature's website.

To facilitate this hearing in a timely manner, we will be enforcing a one minute... Anybody's done HHS know I do one minute limit on testimony. I will be reading a list of individuals who submitted written testimony for each measure. We apologize.

The closed captioning does not accurately transcribe the names. If you're interested in reviewing the written testimony, please go to the legislature's website. You'll find a link on the status page for the measure. We appreciate your understanding. Remind you that the committee does have your testimony. We review them.

So I encourage you to use your time to either add additional comments or you can stand on your written testimony. I do note that in the EDU, HHS following this joint that we may have American Sign Language interpreter, In which case, we will allow for more than one minute because I want the testifiers to testify slow enough for the ASL interpreter. Okay? But otherwise, one minute. HB 1541, relating to Department of Health.

First up, we have HB 1541. Okay, I'm just, I'm just gonna, I don't have it.

HB 1541, when you find it, it is. First up, we have Department of Health in support. What's up?

Hi, Chair, Vice Chairs. My name is Courtenay Matsu, deputy director, Behavioral Health Administration, testifying in strong support of this bill to exempt certain positions in DDD and HSH from civil service. Due to the nature of these entities, and the uniqueness of the positions, we respectfully ask for these positions to be exempt. Each position requires the training, experience, and knowledge that are very specific and cannot be appropriately recruited for or compensated under the current structure of the civil service system.

Both DDD and HSH are very vulnerable populations.

And that's why we're looking for this exemption.

Okay. Thank you very much. Next, we have HGEA in opposition.

Chair, Vice Chair. Nui Sebast for HGEA. We submitted testimony in opposition to this measure. Exempt employees, they're considered at-will by the state. They don't go through any merit-based hiring.

And furthermore, we've seen a significant increase in the use of exempt positions in state government. Over the past six years, there's been 600 positions, or a 25% increase. This not only undermines our civil service system, but this measure itself further legitimizes an attempt by a department to work around the civil service hiring process. Furthermore, while I'm not accusing this department of it, with this increase, more of our members in our union have less rights, which impacts our ability to advocate for our members.

And we can consider that union busting.

We're happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you very much. Next up, we have Aloha Independent Living Hawaii in support. Next, we have Annette Tashiro in support. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 1541? Members, any questions? Okay. Co-Chair.

Yeah. Question for DOH, please. Thank you. And thank you for taking the time to meet with me on this measure. I know this is a priority for the department.

But I have a few questions as it relates. You heard some of the testimony from HGEA with some of these positions. Currently now, what is the total amount of the positions, and is it currently funded in our budget?

Yes. The positions are all currently funded. I believe we have a total of 11 positions that we are requesting.

Okay. Thank you for that. And then for some of the positions, have you worked with perhaps some other agencies in terms of security or other agencies that you could work with and share responsibilities rather than having to create new positions?

Yes. We did look into it because at HSH, it's an acute care facility, twenty-four seven, and the patients, the security and the protections that are needed for them are very specific. And the training required of the security personnel have to be trauma-focused and more patient-related than what would normally be occurring on the outside.

So for that matter, at least right now, we feel that we would really wanna pursue this exempt position status, but we are, for future purposes, long term, would look at possibly moving them to civil service in the future.

Okay. And then the last question I have, Chair, is specifically, and thank you, doctor, for answering these questions. Last question I have is, how did DOH come up with this? Was this a result of something, or what's the reason for wanting these positions?

So particularly for the security positions and for investigators, we did have an unfortunate event that occurred a couple years ago, and this is the result of that, in our efforts to try to really provide quality care for our patients and ensure that everybody, say patients and staff.

Yes. From the report, to just ensure that we can continue to do a good job.

Okay. Thank you. Any questions? Two things.

No. Actually, you go first, and I'll jump in, in case you might ask my question already. So go ahead.

Well, I have questions for you and HGEA. Okay. My understanding from that prior incident was with your predecessor, Marion Tsuji. I asked about the possibility of ACOs from PSD. And my understanding was discussions were made and it wasn't a good fit.

Is that your understanding too? And that's the reason why you folks are attempting to hire your own security rather than using

Yes. And I think we're more treatment-focused at our facility. And so in that regard, there's slight differences in the training that's needed.

Okay. Even though it's a forensic psychiatric facility

Which are criminal defendants. Right?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay. Thank you. And I have a question for HGEA, and then you can ask.

Yeah. Let's go. Okay.

Okay. HGEA, there is nothing preventing you folks from unionizing these exempt people. Right?

So, Nui Sebast, these employees, at least some of them, would, I believe, be part of our union already.

Already. So there will be union protections for them. And if they choose to join the union, you're not gonna close your doors on them. Right?

So if I can maybe just clarify, exempt employees, although they're part of our union, we cannot grieve disciplinary action. So if they're to get suspended or terminated

because they're at-will. But other than the grievance procedure

They are entitled to many of the other rights and benefits of the CBA if they're part of our union.

Thank you.

Department of Health real fast. The positions have been funded for a while, but you haven't been able to fill them. Why not? Is it because of the descriptions from HRD? Is it the price classifications, which can be brought up by HGEA?

We haven't been able to establish them. Right. Because of the types of experience and training needed, it doesn't cleanly fit into what is currently available.

And get a redescription and also ask for them to increase the pay for these positions as well?

It would be a totally new category, I believe. Because, well, we're kinda restricted by what is currently in those different classifications. But I guess the HSC also with that.

Departments are going to HRD to redescribe positions and ask for an increase in the position to address the fact that they're vacant and they can't hire anybody. They've been vacant for a long time.

Can Joy help answer the question? I see her there. She's still waiting to answer.

Because my understanding is that the bottleneck is the HRD in the reclassification. And because of the overcrowding of Hawaii State Hospital and the incidents, they need these positions filled sooner rather than later.

I was just gonna say that that's sort of in Doctor Moss' testimony when she spoke to long term potentially being able to move these positions over to civil service.

That's kind of the idea, is that being able to exempt these positions now would allow us to recruit and hire now while we're able to work with HRD, in however long that process takes, to be able to establish those new classes, if that's the direction that the department and HRD choose to go.

Okay. If HRD were gone and you had your own HR department, would this problem exist or not? Yes or no?

Ask our HR guy.

Well, I already know my answer by then. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Yes. Okay. Any other questions on HB 1541? Okay, moving on.

Okay. Moving on. HB 2315, relating to state employee benefits. First up, we have Department of Health in support. They're just walking away. Somebody else. Okay.

Hi, Chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members. My name is Bobby Robinson. I'm the DHRO of the Department of Health, and I'm here to testify in strong support of this bill.

Okay. And the rest of your written testimony. Thank you very much. Okay. Next, we have UPW in support. Kamakana Kaimuloa. Okay. UPW is not here. Kauanui Sabas, HGEA. Thank you very much. Keith DeMello, Workforce Development Council in support. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 2315? Members, any questions? Okay, none. Now to LBT.

Okay. Thank you, Madam Co-Chair. Our next item and our last item on our agenda is House Bill 1782, House Draft 3. This is relating to artificial intelligence for the protection of minors. First up on our list of registered testifiers is Radji Tolentino, DCCA, or representative. And followed by the Attorney General's Office. Aloha. Welcome.

Hi. Good afternoon, Chairs, Vice Chair, Members of the Committees. I'm Radji Tolentino with the Office of Consumer Protection. I'd like to comment on the data minimization language in the bill. We agree that data minimization is an important issue, but we think it is it may be better addressed outside of this measure.

Privacy laws and laws regulating chatbot behavior are related, but they are really trying to do two different things. Privacy laws generally deal with what information a business can collect, keep, or use. This bill, by contrast, focuses on how these systems interact with minors and how to reduce the risk of harm from these interactions.

Putting both these issues into one bill may create confusion for businesses, regulators, and enforcement agencies like our office. In our view, it will be cleaner to keep this bill focused on protections for minors. So if this bill, passes or moves forward, we respectfully ask that the data minimization provisions be removed. Thank you.

Thank you, Radji. Ashley Tanaka, Deputy Attorney General. Aloha. Welcome.

Good afternoon, Chairs, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Ashley Tanaka, Deputy Attorney General. We did submit written testimony providing comments just regarding two areas of the bill. One, regarding the use of the phrase material risk of harm as it appears in two sections with suggested amendments, as well as we suggested adding a severability provision towards the end of the bill. Available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Tia Hartsock, Office of Wellness and Resilience. Okay. Standing on testimony in support. Thank you. Jai Jaisimha. Did I say that correctly? On Zoom. I'm sorry if I got that wrong.

No problem. My name's Jai Jaisimha. Chair and Members of the Committee. I'm testifying in support of House Bill 1782. I'm the founder of Transparency Coalition. We're an independent nonprofit which advocates for increased transparency and accountability in generative AI.

I have 30 years of tech industry experience as a CEO and executive in multiple AI technology companies, and I have a PhD from the University of Washington. We've been working with lawmakers in over 20 states that have already, they're in the process of passing laws very similar to House Bill 1782.

And I'm also very pleased to report that yesterday, the governor of Washington signed the bill very similar to 1782 into law. Since we only have a minute, I'm just gonna hit a few themes that we are really excited about.

One is the requirements for transparency and disclosure in the bill, the prohibitions on emotional manipulation of minors, requirements that chatbot developers implement a protocol for responding to suicide ideation, and requirements to provide parental controls. On the topic of enforcement, I just wanna highlight the importance of the private right of action. It's an important regulatory tool. And in my...

Thank you, Jai. We do have your written testimony. I'm sorry. Thank you. Okay. Next up is Dave Erdman from the Retail Merchants of Hawaii.

Good afternoon. Aloha.

Aloha.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members. My name is Dave Erdman from the Retail Merchants of Hawaii. We appreciate the intent of HB 1782, HD 3, to protect minors. We respectively request continued clarity that routine retail customer service AI tools are not unintentionally captured, as they are task specific and not designed to create emotional relationships. Mahalo for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you, Dave. Next up is Mick Tobin on Zoom.

Aloha, Chairs and Members of the Committee. My name is Mick Tobin. I am 23 years old and the co-founder of the Young People's Alliance, a youth led bipartisan organization representing 2,800 students across 72 campuses nationally. YPA strongly supports HB 1782, and I recently traveled to Honolulu two weeks ago to testify in support of it in the House in person.

This bill limits manipulative design techniques that foster emotional dependence, romantic relationships, sets clear definitions that don't exempt big tech companies from accountability, and allows families to hold chatbot companies accountable through private right of action. These are all protections that are also included in Washington's AI bill that Jai mentioned, which was signed into law yesterday.

I urge you all to preserve these core elements of HB 172 and to not allow proposed amendments to strip or narrow these provisions, as weakening these core protections would fail to protect Hawaii's keiki and families and signal to other states that weaker standards are acceptable. Big tech has slowed social media regulation for years at the expense of my generation's mental health.

They're likely trying to do the same with AI chatbots nationally now, and maybe with proposed amendments to HB 1782. HB 1782 has already passed the House, three committees in the House, and I urge you to please pass it here as well. Please stand for Hawaii's keiki and families, not big tech. Thank you.

Thank you, Mick. And I'm sorry for mispronouncing your name earlier. Next up is Brenna Leasor.

Hi. My name is Brenna Leasor. I serve as tech policy adviser for Common Sense Media, and I'm testifying in support of the measure. Our research found that 72% of teens have already used AI companions, with 30% preferring to engage with AI companions as more or more than humans.

Our testing also found that these bots have encouraged teens to drop out of school, run away from home, and use drugs. They've also reinforced reinforced psychosis and delusions and shared instructions for making napalm.

Recent research also found that 8 in 10 AI chatbots were regularly willing to assist users in planning violent attacks, including school shootings, religious bombings, and high profile assassinations. A narrow focus on self harm and sexual outputs would miss these. Disclosures and mental health redirects are useful floors, but they are not enough.

Guardrails that perform well in internal testing are known to break down in longer real life conversations and do nothing to prevent the exploitative relationships that lead to harm. The requirements in HB 1782 will constraint innovation. They'll prevent the proliferation of these harmful products. I urge your support.

Thank you. Okay. Next up is Iain Corby, Executive Director for Age Verification Providers Association, on Zoom.

Hello, everybody. I'm Iain Corby, as you said. We've done over a billion age checks globally using a variety of different methods, and I'm here to answer your questions, really, about the ability to do online age verification completely anonymously, using zero knowledge proofs.

Sometimes the checks are done entirely on your own device. We also have the ability to do interoperable age checks. So having proven your age once for one purpose, you can use it for multiple other purposes. I think it's important the operators remain accountable for this.

We can't just rely on, for example, app store age checks because people do access AI through multiple different channels, not just through an app store. We have an international standard ISO 27566 that the technology can be certified to to make sure we can be confident that it protects your data security and your privacy.

And we are innovating all the time. One thing I like about the bill is it's technically neutral. It allows us to use multiple methods, like how you move your fingers, facial age estimation, or just resorting to a piece of ID. Thank you.

Thank you so much. And the other person that's registered to testify is Briana Harmon in support on Zoom.

Not present, Chair.

Okay. Thank you. That completes the list of registered testifiers. Anyone else on House Bill 1718, House Draft 3? Okay. If not, Members, any questions?

May we proceed with decision making?

Yeah. You can. We'll wait to see if we can get a quorum. If not, then we will roll over to another to one of our other agendas. But you can go ahead.

Yes. Because we have EDU next. Okay. Thank you very much.

We have we have quorum.

You have quorum. Good. So for, decision making. For 1541 HB 1541 chair's recommendation is to move this along past with a defective date, a different defective date of 01/01/2050. I urge, HGA to give us proposed language to move these exempt positions to civil service, hopefully by conference, because we we do see the need for it.

Other than that, pass with amendments, any comments, questions, concerns? I understand. Any comments other than comments, other than with w r? Okay. Seeing none, vice chair put a vote.

Chair votes aye.

First time first time for everything. Right? Okay. Recommendation on 1541 house draft two is a Senate draft one. Let's see. Noting the presence of all members except for Senator Kaye Kohli, are there any WRs besides myself or none?

Seeing none, your recommendation has been adopted.

K. Thank you for, for the committee on labor and technology, same recommendation as HHS to pass with amendments. Any further discussion? If not, vice chair Lama South for the vote, chair votes aye.

Okay. Members are voting on HB 1541 HD two. Recommendation of the chair is to pass with amendments, noting the excused absence of Senator Ihara and also Moriwaki. Senator Moriwaki. Anyone present wanting to vote with reservations or no?

Hearing none, chair your, measure is adopted.

Thank you.

So for HB 2315, chair's recommendation is to pass with only one amendment, and that is to change the defective date into an effective date of upon approval. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none, vice chair for the vote, chair votes aye. 2315.

Yes. Okay. '30. Anyway, go. Okay.

Recommendation on 2315 house draft one is a Senate draft. Noting the excuse members from earlier. Any of yours and no's? Seeing none, recommendation has been adopted.

For the committee on labor and technology, same recommendation as HHS to pass with amendments. Any further discussion? If not, vice chair Lamasal for the vote. Chair votes aye.

For the same measure, anyone present from labor and technology wanting to vote with reservations or no? Hearing none, chair, your recommendation is adopted. Okay.

Thank you. And our last item on our general is House bill 1782 House draft three. This is relating to artificial intelligence for the protection of minors. Recommendation here is to pass with amendments. We're going to accept and adopt the proposed amendments from the Department of Commerce and consumer protection.

We're also gonna accept and adopt the proposed amendments from the attorney general's office and their testimony. We're gonna accept and adopt the proposed amendments from Charter Communications. We're also gonna accept and adopt the proposed amendments from CTIA, which is the following that's contained in their testimony, I should say. And then we're also gonna, defect the date to 01/01/2077, and that's it. Any further discussion, comments, questions, or concerns? Oh, we just lost quorum from on our end.

Okay. Okay. So, what wait wait Deferred decision making for LBT to later?

For so for for this one, for the committee on labor and technology, let's see if you I think. K. Well, for this one, I know there's another committee after this. What we're gonna do is we're gonna roll over oh, we are not gonna roll over. Sorry, Bella.

Yeah. Sorry. We now have quorum. Thank you, Senator Fevella. Okay.

I just read Senator Fevella, would you like me to reread the Sure. Amendments? Okay. So I just read them out. So basically, we're gonna just pass it, accepting those amendments as I just previously shared, and then defecting the date to 01/01/2077.

Any further discussion, comments, or concerns? K. If not, vice chair lamosao for the vote, chair votes aye.

Okay. Members were voting on HB 1782 HD 3. Rotation of the chair is passed with amendments. Anyone present wanting to vote with reservations or no? Hearing none, chair recommendation is adopted.

So for HHS, same recommendation passed with amendments. Vice chair for the vote.

Okay. Recommendation 1782 house draft three is the Senate draft one, known in the presence of all members. Are there any WRs besides myself or no? No. Recommendation is adopted.

Chair for the vote.

Thank you very much. And that joint hearing is adjourned, but we are still rolling over to the EDU HHS hearing next.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you. I I don't think we need to, do another countdown, do we? We're okay. Pleased to see. Okay.

1574 repayment.

Are we on?

Or Yes. You're on. Don't we have to start? Start? No.

Not going through it. We're we're we're on.

Okay. So welcome, everyone. We are on the committee on education jointly with the Committee on Health and Human Services. We are on the 1:10 agenda. It is 11:24 in room225.

Today is March. First item on the agenda is House Bill 1574 relating to Healthcare Education Loan Repayment Program, formally codifies the health care education loan repayment program, requires a participant in the health care education loan repayment program who receives a new award on or after 07/01/2027 to remain and work in the state for a certain number of years based on the amount of financial assistance received. First item, first person to testify is, Lee Buenconsejo Lum. Aloha.

Hi, chair. Chair of his chairs. assemblymembers. Lee Buenconsejo Lum, associate dean for academic affairs at JABSOM, here to stand on our support. Thank you.

Thank you. For the questions.

We have Paula Doan for John or Jack Lewin. Hi. You're not Paula.

Good good afternoon. I'm Terry Vespers on behalf of doctor Jack Lewin with the, SHIPTA. We'd like to stand strongly on our testimony with comments. Thank you.

Great. Thank you. McKenna Woodward.

Aloha, chair, vice chairs, and members of the committees. McKenna Woodward on behalf of the office of Hawaiian affairs will stand on our written testimony in support today. Mahalo.

Thank you. Jonathan Ching for Kaiser Permanente in support. Not here. Let's see. We had 0.8 people that sent in testimonies, all in support.

None up opposing. Anyone else wishing to testify in this measure whose name I didn't call? Hearing none, members we are open to questions. None. Any questions?

Hearing no questions. Okay. We are moving on to House Bill 1894 House Draft one. This requires Department of Education to include instruction of Braille and provision of Braille instructional material under certain material under certain circumstances, provide braille literacy support services, co op cooperative with the Department of Human Services when requested to submit information necessary to maintain a register of blind in the state. I believe we've had a Senate bill that that we heard.

This is a companion bill starting with Keith Hayashi testifying for DOE. Aloha.

Aloha, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. Kinetu Gardner on behalf of the Department of Education. We stand on our written testimony in support of this measure.

Thank you. James Gashel for National Federation of Blind of Hawaii.

Yeah. Hi, chair, vice chair, and, members of the committee, I'm just gonna stand on my written testimony for National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii and, thanking the Department of Education and other supporters for their help on this bill. Thanks.

Thank you. Donald Sakamoto on Zoom. Donald.

Hello, chair, vice chairs, vice chairs. This is Donald Sakamoto. I just hope you guys support the bill. We had on my testimony. You know, we had a representative named Terrence Tom back in the days. He was a student and he was able to read braille and braille.

So this is very important for our students right now. So thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. Representative used to his used to be my neighbor in the house. Yeah. Yes.

He used to chase me around his desk. Good memories. Eric Mitchell on Zoom.

not present, chair.

K. Virgil Stinnett, also on Zoom?

Also not present, chair.

Okay. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? You know, I just gotta say this. I remember Terrence Stomp. He used to carry his little typewriters, so forth, braille typewriter, and you could always hear him.

And I He was amazing.

So Yeah. He is.

Yeah. And he had all of the bills.

And he could still sing. Yes. And he

could play the piano and sing. Amazing.

He is amazing.

Anyway. Okay. Anyone else wishing to testify? None. Members, any questions?

Hearing no questions, moving right on to our final measure jointly. House Bill 2159, House Draft 2, relating to health care workforce development. This establishes positions and appropriates funds to the University of Hawaii to support health care workforce development in the state. We have Paula Doan.

Paula Doan. Good afternoon, Chairs. Hi. I'm Terry Vespers for Dr. Jack Lewin, administrator for SHPTO. We'd like to stand strongly on our written testimony for support. Thank you.

Thank you. Samuel Shoemaker, University of Hawaii.

Aloha, Chairs, Vice Chairs, members. Sam Shoemaker, Dean of JABSOM. I will stand in support on my written testimony and be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you very much. Rachel Wilkinson?

Good afternoon, Chairs, Vice Chairs, and members of the committees. Rachel Wilkinson on behalf of the Hawaii Association of Health Plans, and we'll stand on our written testimony in support.

Thank you. Corey Sanders. Person not here. We had 21 testifying in support. Anyone else wishing to testify on House Bill 2159?

Hearing none. Members, any questions? No questions? Okay. No questions.

We'll go right into decision making.

Do you have quorum? I have quorum.

Shall we need. So can we I can

I can roll it over to you?

I got excited. Yes. So, okay. So, we just announced the decision, and for HHS, we'll vote.

Okay. So the recommendation by both chairs is that on House Bill 1574 relating to the education loan repayment program that we've, defected defective date to 07/01/2020 2055. 07/31/2055. And No other No other amendments. Dream.

Okay. For eight

wait a second. So for HHS, vice, I mean chair, co chairs recommendation is to pass with amendments. So is chair, HHS chair's recommendation. Pass with amendments, chair votes aye, vice chair.

Okay. 1574 house draft 2 recommendation as a Senate draft 1,000,000 the excuse. We have. Senator Fevella and Yabara, so seeing none. Recommendation adopted.

And for you can go back to EDU. You have four of them.

Oh, okay. Very good. And the recommendation for EDU, House bills 1574 House draft 2, to amend to an SD1 with a defective date of July '55. Any questions? Any discussion?

Hearing none, Chair votes aye.

And Joan, that was July 31. July 31. Twenty thirty first.

Twenty thirty first.

2055.

Alright. HB 1574 HD two chair recognizes the amendment. Chair votes aye. Vice chair is excused. Senator Fukunaga is excused.

I vote aye. Senator Decourt? Aye. Chair recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. And for House Bill 1894 this is the braille instructional material. Recommendation is to, defect the date also to 07/31/2055. It already has a blank appropriation in it. And any any non substantive amendments for clarity and consistency.

Any discussion? Hearing none, chair votes aye.

HPD 1894 chair's recommendation pass to amendment, chair votes aye. Noting the excuse of Senator Kidani and Fukunaga. Any members with reservations? Any members voting no. With all others voting, aye.

Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you very much for HHS. Same recommendation. Chair votes aye. Vice chair for the vote. Eighteen ninety

four house draft fund recommendation. Senate draft noting. Presence of all members. Any WRS and no. Seeing none.

Recommendation adopted.

Thank you. For House Bill 2159, this is relating to the healthcare workforce development. Recommendation is to defect the date to July 2055. It already contains blank number of FTE positions, and the money is also blanked out. Members, any questions?

Any discussion? Hearing none, chair votes aye.

Members, HB 2159 chairs are released to pass with amendments chair votes aye, vice chair and Senator Fukunaga is excused. Any members running with reservations or no? We all as running our recommendations adopted.

So for HHS, same recommendation, vice chair for the vote.

Twenty 159 house draft two recommendations, Senate draft. None of the presence of all members of the committee. Anybody else? No. Seeing none, recommendation adopted.

And with that, we are adjourned pending, AEM.

And with that, we are adjourned pending, AEM.

Good afternoon. We're calling the one forty calendar for the HHS calendar, health human services on Wednesday, March 25. Present with me is my vice chair, Senator McKelvey, and also Senator Keohokalole. This meeting is being streamed live on YouTube.

In the unlikely event that we must abruptly end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business later at 1PM, Friday, March 27 in Room 225. And a public notice will be posted on the legislator's website. To facilitate this hearing a timely manner, we will be enforcing a lax what it's lax 11 minute limit on testimony. And it's lax because we have a American sign language interpreter. So we request those who are testifying to enunciate.

If however you can stand on your written testimony, please do so because we are also having another hearing after this. So thank you very much. We appreciate your understanding. Remind you the committee does have your testimony. I apologize again if the closed captioning does not accurately transcribe the names.

If you're interested in reviewing the written testimony, please go to legislator's website. You'll find a link on the status page. First up, HB 469 relating to parking for disabled persons. First up, we'd have Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities, Dane Chip Artolis in support.

We'll stand our testimony in support. Thank you.

Thank you. Next, we have DCAB, Disability and Communication Access Board, Christine Pagano, in support.

Hello, chair and vice chair. I'm Brian McCarron on behalf of DCAB and executive director Christine Pagano in support of this bill. The purpose of this bill is to allow someone who only has one long term placard and cannot or does not want to have special license plates to obtain a limited duration travel placard. This prevents the person from having to choose between using the their existing placard at their departure location or taking it with them for use at their destination.

While people traveling for pleasure would benefit from this, it will be especially valuable for people who have to travel for medical treatment, including families with children.

We have asked for a small limit to clarify that someone with a long term removable windshield placard or a disabled paid parking exemption permit is eligible for this travel placard as both of those permittee types are restricted to one placard currently. And, to add providers, though, that this is, contingent upon them not being issued special license plates. So someone that has special license plate would not need a travel placard. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Okay. Again, be aware of the ASL. So I understand that I have trained you folks to speak very fast, but because we have an ASL interpreter, please enunciate so you can speak slower. Okay.

Thank you very much. Next, we have Aloha Independent Living Hawaii in support. Okay. Hawaii disability rights center. Louis Erchick in support, standing on your written testimony.

Thank you. Johnny May Perry in support. Jackie Keith in support. Lila Mower in support. Anybody else wishing to testify in hb 469?

Members, any questions? Okay. Moving on. Next, we have hb 2488 relating to disability and communications access board. First up, we have Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities, Dane Chip Artolis Bipologist in support.

we'll stand on our testimony in support. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Again, DCAP in support. This is your bill. Come on up. Yes.

You can look directly to the ASL. Can someone interpret we need someone who is interpreting ASL into English for the rest of us in here.

We will be doing that. Go right ahead.

Thank you. Okay. Please proceed.

I think, hi. Do you see me clearly? I'm interpreting yes. We need him a little bit closer for fingers. So yes. Perfect.

And you need to identify yourself even though we know who you are.

Yes. Hello.

My name is Pono. I'm from disability and communication access board. I'm I'm representing Christine Pagano today. So we are here to stand in support of this bill.

This is And we will stand and we will stand on our written Sorry. And we will stand on our written testimony, but I can't hear Sorry. Say again? The speaker? Wait. The interpreter couldn't hear the speaker.

What is the miss last

name? Tokyo.

Tokyo. That's okay. We know you're Pono Tokioka. So please proceed. Yes.

This is Pono Tokioka. So I know he's Pono Tokioka, but we need the record to reflect he's Pono Tokioka. So please proceed. I'm sorry, Pono. Please testify.

Are you done? Are you standing on your written testimony? Pono? I did not mean to interrupt you, but we wanna make sure everyone knows this is

Yes. I am standing on my written testimony.

Thank you.

Can you hear the interpreter?

Yes. Thank you very much. Okay. Standing on your written testimony. Next up, we have, Doctor.

Lewin Shipta in support. You're not doctor Lewin.

I am not doctor Lewin. Good afternoon. I'm Terry Vespares with doctor Lewin, administrator of Chipta. We stand in strong support of our written testimony. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Louis Ercherck, Hawaii Disability Rights Center in support. Thank you very much. Eleanor McDonald, deaf and blind task force in support. Leland Brady, Aloha Independent Living Hawaii in support.

Peter Fritz, are you present on Zoom? Please proceed.

Yes, I am. I am present.

Please proceed.

You can't hear me?

Yes.

Okay. I'm Peter Fritz. At a death and blind task force meeting, people described repeated communication failures at health care facilities. Not one person filed a formal grievance. That is a gap that this bill should also address.

The legal framework framework already exists, and if I need to slow down, please tell me. Hospitals are required to respond to grievances that are filed. A pattern of complaints can trigger a health and human services, HHS, Office of Civil Rights Investigation, OCR, and that investigation can put federal funding at risk. Hospitals are aware and respond to this risk. My written testimony details the two step process, file with the facility first and then file with the HHS OCR if it's unresolved.

One grievance I filed changed how a hospital treated me on my very next admission. My testimony suggest using AI to break writer's block to help patient draft draft a formal complaint. Human assistance in drafting complaints is limited. AI is accessible now to anyone with a computer. The patient describes what happens.

AI produces a formal letter produced on those facts.

Thank you very much, Peter. We have your written testimony. It was very, very detailed as to what is needed. Thank you very much. Okay.

Next up, we have Johnny Mae Perry in support, Lila Moore in support. Anybody else wishing to testify at HB 2488? Members, any questions? Okay. Moving on.

HB 2009, relating to family caregiver support. First up, Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities, Daintry Bartoldus. Please proceed.

Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members. Daintry Bartoldus, Executive Director for the Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities. We have comments to make. When this bill first came out, we were really excited about it. However, we have learned that it's in the wrong place.

You cannot add another category to a federal law unless the state wants to pay for it 100%, but I don't think we do. We also have learned a lot about boards and working with different boards, and we really feel that this bill, we could combine with Department of Human Services and HDRC.

We could just get together and discuss this and talk about it. We facilitate a board called community supports, and this could fit perfectly in there. And I think we could do that and collaborate and fix this. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Next, Louis Erteschik, Hawaii Disability Rights Center, in support.

Yes. Thank you. Good afternoon, Senator. Yes. I wanna talk about it. That's why I'm here. Right? There's three distinct issues here. I mean, the first one about the child care subsidy is a legitimate concern because I think the intent is that if you're out of the house, you're working, you're in schools, they somebody's gotta watch your kid.

But if you're a parent with a disability, you may be there, but you're not, like, fully there. Right? And so you still need some care. So it's a legit issue, but I understand you can't use state dollars. So we gotta figure out something on that. The assumption of parental ability is also a legitimate issue.

You can't say, well, you're the mother. You should do this, but it's like, I'm disabled. I can't do it. They need to be able to address that. And then finally, those level of care assessments, we get these cases in our office all the time.

And it's not even just in this area where this whole argument about you're not disabled enough to get the services. You don't need as much. And we and our client says, yes, I do. So we got a lot to work on. And I'm happy to dialogue with Meredith or you guys or anybody else.

Thank you very much. Okay. Younghee Overly, Indivisible Hawaii, in support. Hawaii Women Lawyers in support. Malia Tsuchiya, Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks, in support. Kona Indivisible and Matriarchy Rising in support. 21 individuals in support. Ryan Yamane, Department of Human Services, providing comments on Zoom. Department of Human Services.

No present, Chair.

Okay. Thank you very much. And anybody else wishing to testify on HB 2009?

I would like to testify.

Any questions? Okay. Moving on.

Chair, we have one on Zoom.

Yes. Okay. Please proceed for HB 2009.

Hi there. I'm Ian Seely. I helped to draft this bill. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. I strongly support HB 2009. Right now, we have health plans that overlook the only question that really matters, whether a vulnerable person is actually receiving care.

If you live with a disabled family member, health plans essentially say congratulations, quit your job because you are now an unpaid caregiver. DHS doesn't stop to consider the trap that they've set. For these already low income households, they're on Medicaid. We know this. They are demanding they perform full time labor without pay, and that leaves only two realistic options.

Either you keep paying your bills and you watch your loved one enter costly nursing home care, or you attempt to provide that unpaid care yourself and eventually experience homelessness. That is a trap. This bill here disarms that trap. It forces the state to actually think. Okay. Can this person really truly take care of that person?

Yes. Thank you very much. Okay. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 2009? Members, any questions?

Okay. Seeing none, moving on. HB 2007, relating to household and dependent care services tax credit. First up, Hawaii Department of Taxation providing comments. Thank you very much.

OHA, Office of Hawaiian Affairs in support. Hawaii Public Health Institute, Chris Cofield in support. And you can slow down because of the testimony.

Oh, very good. Thank you.

Aloha. Chris Caulfield from Hawaii Public Health Institute. We're in strong support of this bill. As you know, child care has become exorbitantly expensive in the state of Hawaii. There have been studies that show that a child care can cost more than $24,000 per year on infant care and, in many cases, over $2,700 per month.

So that means that Hawaii families are spending 13.5% of their income on childcare, which is the highest share in the country. This measure would be a tremendous boost for that. The skyrocketing cost of childcare is not just an economic issue but a public health concern. As many of the issues that come before you are, when taxpayers have to pay more for child care, then they cut back on a lot of other essential services.

We would know that this is essentially a fix to Act 163 from 2023, which increased the amount the taxpayers could claim under the household independent care credit, but failed to increase the percentage of expenses that they could claim and didn't adjust the thresholds accordingly.

So it severely, restricted its impact. But we're in strong support of this bill and we'd love to see you move forward. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Next, we have Nicole Woo, Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks. Nicole. Oh, you're present in person.

Yes. Every now and then, I show up in person, Chair.

Okay.

Yeah. This is a strong priority bill for Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks. We care a lot about families that are struggling to afford to live here, especially with their childcare needs. As Chris said from HiFi that the legislature and the governor, you all, increased the amount that people could claim in this tax credit three years ago, but the percent cap is still there. So right now, if you make over $50,000 a year, you can only claim 15% of your care expenses.

So family paying $10,000 for pre-k, which would be cheap, could only get a credit for $1,500 right now. This bill has been amended to actually target it better at lower-income families and to make it a cheaper bill.

So right now, a family that makes up to a $160,000 a year up to a family that makes up to $80,000 a year could claim half of their child care expenses, And then it goes down step by step until a family makes a 160,000 and they claim 5% of their expenses. So this is a real targeted way to keep our working families here and thriving.

Thank you very much, Nicole. Okay. Devin Thomas, Hawaii Appleseed, Center for Law and Economic Justice in support.

Good afternoon. Daniela Spoto with Hawaii Appleseed is standing on the support.

Thank you very much. Next, we have Mike Wen, Aloha Care in support. Mike, are you present on Zoom?

Not present Chair.

Okay. Next, we have Adi Suganakagawa, AARP, in support.

AARP stands on its testimony in support.

Thank you. Jean Evans, AAUW, in support. Shauna Kahiapo, Prince Kuhio Hawaii Hawaiian Civic Club, in support. Yvette K Kona, Indivisible and Matriarchy Rising, in support. Leilani Keli'i Ekipi, in support.

Leilani, are you present on Zoom?

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Okay. Next we have. Over 30 people, all in support. Nobody in opposition. Anybody else wishing to testify in HB 2007?

Okay, seeing none. Members, any questions? So let's make it over 20 because I didn't count. You round it off. 20.

I round it off. Okay. Moving on. HB 1518 relating to supplemental nutrient assistance program. First up, we have Raya Yamani, the Department of Human Services, providing comments.

Thank you. DCR, Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation is in support.

Good afternoon, Chair, co-chair, committee members. My name is Christy Yokoyama, and I'm from the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. I stand on written testimonies submitted by Director Tommy Johnson in support of House Bill 1518. We have started our pilot program with Department of Human Services at two of our facilities, Waiawa Correctional Facility and Women's Community Correctional Center. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Christine Johnson, Hawaii Correctional System Oversight Commission in support. Christine? Okay. McKenna Woodward, Office of Hawaiian Affairs in support.

Benson Medina, County of Hawaii, Department of Research and Development, in support. Chris Caulfield, Hawaii Pacific Health Institute in support.

Aloha again. Chris Cofield from the Hawaii Public Health Institute. We're in support of this bill. Freedom should not begin without food. Yet for too many people, the first steps to reentry are taken on an empty stomach.

This proposal would authorize Hawaii to seek federal waiver, federal approval to allow inmates to apply for SNAP benefits before being released from incarceration. And there's studies that show that ninety-one percent of individuals recently released from prison experience insecurity, food insecurity, and more than one-third report going an entire day without access to food.

Giving eligible individuals benefits immediately rather than forcing them to wait weeks to get food security would reduce a critical gap in access to food during reentry, which is already a period that's associated with elevated homelessness, reincarceration, and mortality, actually is quite a spike during that period. There are 13 states that already do this, including states that are as varied as Louisiana, Kansas, Oregon, and California. So if we wanna prevent recidivism, then we must prevent hunger.

Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak.

Thank you very much. Next, we have Betty Lou Larsen, Catholic Charities of Hawaii in support.

Yes. Catholic Charities of Hawaii in support.

Kat Brady, Community Alliance in Prisons in support.

Community Alliance on Prisons is in strong support to pass this bill. It is a way to help people who are entering

Thank you. Nicole Wu, Hawaii Children's Action Network speaks in support. Nicole? Daniela Esputo, Hawaii Appleseed in support. Daniela?

Come on up.

Chair, vice Chair, members of the committee, Daniela Esputo with Hawaii Appleseed in support of this bill. As others have already said, people returning home from incarceration face especially steep barriers. In particular, food and security is rampant among this newly released population with many reporting that they've gone an entire day without eating because they couldn't afford food. We would not be the first state to implement such a measure and 13 other states have already implemented these waivers successfully.

I also wanted to note that DHS would have until 01/01/2028 in this current version of the bill to implement this process, which would give them some ramp up time for their new eligibility system.

Hopefully, by then, it'll be a little bit of a less of a barrier for them to get that program up and running. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Okay. Mike Wynne, AlohaCare and support. Mike Wynne, are you present?

Your stance on the testimony in support.

You don't look like Mike. No. Okay.

That's not a person.

Thank you. Josh Frost, ACLU of Hawaii in support. Josh?

Thank you, Chair, vice Chair. Oh, it's just the two of you now. Josh Frost, ACLU of Hawaii. You have our testimony, and you've heard lots of good reasons why this bill is important. I wanted to highlight that this is one of those rare instances where DCR and ACLU are actually on the same page.

That alone, I think, should, merit the bill's passage. Well, yeah, I also wanted to highlight again the, the postdated, effective date to give DHS time to continue, with the, bestine improvements. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Lauren Zirbel, Hawaii Food Industry Association. Lauren, are you present? Somebody

Not present here.

No. This oh, that's Hawaii Food Bank. Okay. Genevieve Muma, Hawaii Hunger Action Network in support. Genevieve Muma, are you present on Zoom?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Megan Fox, Malama Kauai in support.

Elia Herman, Hawaii Food Bank, I see you on Zoom. Please proceed.

Oops. We stand on our written testimony.

Thank you very much. Anne Frederick, Hawaii Alliance for Progressive Action in support, Brandon Kennard. Oh, I'm sorry.

No. We'll stand on our testimony.

She did not look like Anne Frederick. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Brandon Kennard, Hawaii Food and Policy, Purple Maia Foundation in support. Okay. Johnny Mae Perry in support. Marcia Campbell in support.

30 other individuals all in support. And only Shelby Pikachu billionaire, Kingdom of Hawaiian Islands and Ohana Unity Party. Are you present on Zoom, Shelby?

Not present, chair.

Okay. And Abigail Steward of Hawaii, Amanda Shaw in support. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 1518? Members, any questions? Okay.

Seeing none. Moving on. HB 2208, relating to food security. First up, Betty Lou Larson, Catholic Charities Hawaii. Thank you very much. Hawaii Department of Agriculture and Biosecurity in support. Thank you very much. Director Yamane, DHS, providing comments.

Thank you very much. Benson Medina, County of Hawaii, Department of Research and Development, in support. Kealoha Fox, City and County of Honolulu Office of Climate Change, Sustainability, and Resiliency, in support. Hawaii Children Action Network Speaks, Nicole Woo, in support. Hawaii Appleseed, Daniela Spoto, in support.

Good afternoon again. Daniela Spoto with Hawaii Appleseed. We are in support of this bill. We love this bill because it kind of solves three intertwined problems. So it the price of local food, we know this is often out of reach for many local families struggling to afford food.

Second, it provides an additional stable market for local farmers and a revenue stream, which will help us reach our double in our local food production goals by 2030. And finally, it strengthens a critical but often overlooked supply chain.

Which is the emergency food system, and something that we have seen over and over again in recent years as the rate of climate disasters continue to increase. So we really encourage you to support this bill. Thank you.

Okay. Next we have Lauren Zirbel, Hawaii Food Industry Association, in support. Lauren?

Not present, Chair.

On Zoom? No. Brian Miyamoto, Hawaii Farm Bureau, in support. Brian?

Brian Miyamoto on behalf of Hawaii Farm Bureau. We'll stand on our written testimony in support.

Okay. Thank you very much. Hunter Heaivilin, Hawaii Farmers Union, in support. Anne Frederick in support. Okay, for HAPA. And Agriculture Stewardship Hawaii, Amanda Shaw, are you present? You're present in person.

Genevieve Mumma, Hawaii Hunger Action Network. Local Food Coalition in support. Christopher Dean, Clean the Pacific, in support. Laurel Brier, Kauai Climate Action Coalition, in support. Kapono Chong-Hanssen, MD of 'Ahahui o nā Kauka, Association of Native Hawaiian Physicians, in support. Susan B Roberts Emery, Green Party, in support.

350 Hawaii, Sherry Pollack, in support. Ulupono Initiative in support. Hawaii Primary Care Association in support. Kahua O Kakou Corporation in support. Prince Kūhiō Hawaiian Civic Club in support. Okay. I see someone on Zoom. Please proceed. Identify yourself.

Aloha. My name is Mele Kānealiʻi speaking on behalf of the Hawaii State Youth Commission in strong support. We stand on our written testimony. But wanna highlight that young people feel food insecurity directly in the classroom as difficulty concentrating and increased stress with effects that follow them well past graduation. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Jinto Farms, Soo Sun Choe, in support. Hawaii Food Bank, Amy Miller, in support. Oh, good.

Hawaii Food Bank should be online. Apologies.

I didn't see them.

They were there earlier.

Oh, I see. Hawaii Food Bank. Please proceed.

Hi. Aloha, Chair. Sorry. I have a toddler home sick, so I had to do this by Zoom. Thank you so much for the time. As you know, 32% of our households are food insecure, including a 100,000 keiki. This bill is really a win win for farmers and families. Food banks are able to serve as a purchaser of last resort. We can buy b grade product. We don't care. Our menu doesn't change.

We're available to purchase whatever is there. So we are a reliable source for farmers, and then connecting households with healthy, nutritious, culturally relevant food that they might not have access to it otherwise. And, you know, I just wanted to point out as well that most recently, I think these Kona Low storms are yet another example of how critical and fragile the system is.

You know, this is again following by the following the federal shutdown. And Farm to Families ensures that money is in the system to build food systems that are flexible for whatever comes and that we're equipped as a as a state, as a community to take care of everyone and care for our ohana. Mahalo and thank you for your time.

Hawaii Food Policy, Purple Maiʻa Foundation in support. Pacific Birth Collective in support, 75 other individuals in support, Maui Food Bank in support, Hawaii Health and Harm Reduction Center, Andrew Ogata, in support, Debbie Zysman as an individual providing comments.

Okay. She was here before, not regarding this. Vivienne Hill, Hawaii Youth Food Council, Climate for Future Forum. I think they provided testimony in support. Hawaii State Youth Commission, Public Health Committee in support. Okay. Kingdom of Hawaiian Islands Ohana Unity Party. Shelby Pikachu, are you present?

Not present, Chair.

Nope. Food Basket in support. Anybody else? Nicholas Zehr providing comments. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 2208? Members, any questions? Okay. Seeing none. Moving on. HB 2096, relating to aggravated circumstances in child protective proceedings. First up, Judiciary. Judge Medeiros. No. You're not Judge Medeiros.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, Senator. I'm Andrew Park. I'm a family court judge, and I'll stand on our written testimony in strong support of this judiciary package bill. And I'll be available if you have questions. Thank you.

Brad Galbraith of Center for the Rights of Abused Children in support. Anybody else? Testifying on HB 2096. Members, any questions? Can we proceed with this?

Okay. So first up, for HB 469, relating to parking for disabled persons. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. We're gonna accept DCAB's proposed amendments. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote. Pass with amendments.

Okay. Recommendation is Senate Draft 1. Noting the presence of yourself, myself, and Senator Kanuha. All others being excused. Any WRs, noes? Seeing none. Recommendation adopted.

For HB 2488, Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. We're gonna add number 6, per Peter Fritz testimony, to include instructions to aggrieved patients on how to file a grievance. Okay. Any comments, questions, concerns? Pass with amendments.

Okay. Recommendation 2488, HD 2 is a Senate Draft 1. Noting the excused absence earlier. Any WRs, noes? Of the Members present, seeing none. Recommendation adopted.

For HB 2009, we're gonna pass with amendments. We're gonna remove sections 2-4. And per disability DDC's recommendation, we are gonna create a working group. Members are Department of Human Services, Department of Health's DDC Council, Hawaii Disability Rights Council, Member of the House, Member of the Senate, and technical non substantive amendments needed for clarity and consistency. Already contains a blank defective date and a blank appropriation. Any...

A bad defective date. Right?

It's yeah. A defective date. Okay. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote.

Okay. 2009, HD 2. Recommendation Senate Draft 1. Of the Members present, any WRs or noes? All others are being excused. Recommendation adopted.

For HB 2007, we're going to pass this with a defective date of January 1, 2050, and technical non substantive amendments needed for clarity and consistency. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote.

Okay. Recommendation 2007, HD 3 is Senate Draft 1. Of the Members present, with all others being excused. Any WRs or noes? Seeing none. Recommendation's adopted.

For HB 1518, we're gonna note that there's already a pilot program. So we're gonna pass this with amendments. We're gonna change the effective date at the end of that pilot program, which would be February 28, 2027. So just changing the effective date to February 28, 2027. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote.

Okay. Recommendation 1518, House Draft 1 is a Senate Draft with a new defective date. Of the Members present, any WRs or noes? All others being excused. Seeing none. Recommendation adopted.

With a new effective date of February 28, 27.

What you said.

Whatever I said. Thank you.

I'm just repeating your recommendation.

HB 2208. Chair's recommendation is to pass this with amendments. We're gonna just change it to include an effective date of upon approval. And an amendment of reports being required to be due prior to the 2029-2030 session, except for section two to be effective on July 1, 2028. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote.

Seeing none, vice chair for the vote.

Okay. Recommendation on 2208, House Draft 1 is a Senate Draft. Of the Members present, any WRs or noes? Seeing none. Recommendation has been adopted.

And for HB 2096, we're gonna change this to pass with an effective date of upon approval. Any comments, questions, concerns? Pass with amendments. Chair votes aye.

Recommendation 2096, HD 2 is a Senate Draft. Of the Members present, any WRs or noes? With all others being excused. Seeing none. Recommendation's adopted.

And with that, the HHS only calendar is adjourned.

Aloha mai kākou, and good afternoon. Mahalo for joining today's AEN, HHS, EDT hearing. It's Wednesday, March 25, and we're convened in Room 225 and video conferencing, which includes the audio and video of remote participants. It's being streamed live on YouTube.

In the unlikely event that this hearing is cut short, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on Friday, March 25 at 3:01pm in CR 224 during AEN's time slot. And because of our we're running a little bit late here, we'll be having a one minute time limit for your testify, your testimony, and there'll be a virtual countdown on the Zoom.

So we have one measure, and that's HB 1618, HD 1, establishing and appropriate funds for assessable conversion, revolving loan fund to be administered by the Hawaii Green Infrastructure Authority to provide financial assistance, including low interest or forgivable loans, to eligible homeowners for the upgrade, conversion, or connection of cesspools. First up is Department of Health.

Good afternoon, Chairs, Vice Chairs, Members of the Committee. Jon Nagato, Department of Health. The department stands on its written testimony in support of this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. DLNR. Keali'i Sagum. Not here. In support. Hawaii Green Infrastructure Authority. Gwen? Thank you. PUC, Jon Itomura. Thank you. Mary Alice Evans with OPSD in support. Kealoha Fox from City and County of Honolulu, Climate Change and Sustainability and Resiliency.

Aloha, Chairs, Vice Chairs, Members of the Committee. Kealoha Fox for the Mayor's Office of Climate Change, Sustainability, and Resiliency, and the City and County of Honolulu's Chief Resilience Officer. We stand in strong support of our written testimony. We're here for any questions. Mahalo.

Thank you. Lyndsey Garcia from Hawaii Realtors in support. Ted Bohlen, Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition.

Thank you, Chairs, Vice Chairs, Members of the Committees. Ted Bohlen on behalf of the Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition in strong support. I think everybody here knows that cesspool upgrades are very expensive, and this bill is about making it more affordable. We're gonna need loans.

We're gonna need help to do this financially, and this bill would provide some through the Hawaii Green Infrastructure Authority. It's particularly targeted toward low and moderate income people. I know the chairs of this committee have a lot of low income people or low and moderate income people with cesspools in their districts.

So it's very important for these particular districts to do, to do the upgrades to pass this bill. I particularly note that Hawaiian Paradise Park has a number of cesspools that are affected by concentration of cesspools around their drinking water wells. So there are people who are with some health issues that could come out of this.

And it's very important for us to get those people loans. It's not about 2050. I know we've had discussion about in the past whether we should move the mandate forward or back. There will be people who will need to upgrade in the meantime.

And the other thing I want to add to my written testimony is we've seen this week that we've got the Kona storms, and there's a lot of people walking around in waste that's from overflowing cesspools. So cesspools really need to be upgraded, not just in 2050. Thank you very much.

Next is Jessica Paisley from WAI. Stuart?

Aloha, Chairs, Vice Chairs, and Committee Members. Stuart Coleman from WAI. And wanted to stand on our written testimony. But just add that not only will this bill help low income homeowners, but it will make us eligible for federal loans.

And it will start with kinda revolving fund loans. And but once it's successful, we can also start to bring in grants to help low income homeowners. So it's really a win win situation. Mahalo, and we'll be available for for questions.

Thank you, Stuart. Mihoko Ito from Hawaii Bankers Association on Zoom.

Not present, Chair.

Okay. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Please.

Aloha, Chairs, Vice Chairs, and Members of the Committees. My name is Hanna Lesiak, and I'm testifying on behalf of the Ocean Legislative Task Force in strong support of this measure. One of our core priorities this legislative session and has been for many years is cesspool conversion and wastewater management.

We currently have over 83,000 unconverted cesspools in the state, and one of the largest barriers to this is cost. And I think that this measure would greatly help with that. I also wanted to mention one small recommendation for this measure.

That we kindly ask that the effective date be modified to effective upon approval by the governor so that the City and County of Honolulu can add funds immediately to fast track more cesspool conversions. Our task force represents over 150 individuals across over 20 organizations, and we thank you for hearing this measure. Mahalo. Thank you.

Anyone else? Department of Health. Please come forward. I got a question. So I think it's we all know the dire need for doing something about cesspools. And I think in, you know, the cost for converting traditional septic or to septic or aerobic systems, it can be in the tens of thousands of dollars.

So in previous testimony on the cesspool bills, it was brought up about innovative wastewater technologies would be less costly. So is DOH looking into any of those technologies with the aim of approving them or checking them out?

Yes. Jon Nagato, Department of Health, Wastewater Branch. So besides septic tanks and aerobic tanks, we do look at passive systems that accomplish aerobic treatment. They can be somewhat more affordable because they use their type of sizing criteria.

It's a little bit smaller sometimes than what DOH allows for regular absorption beds, which are which are bigger. So that can bring the cost down, and we are we are familiar with the technologies out there.

Alright. Thank you. Any other questions? Go ahead.

I have a question. I'm sorry. I still never get an answer. So can you let me know in my district of Ewa Beach, which we are about 10-15 miles away. We have a lot of old cesspools. I still never get on data on how much pollution that are cesspools that is leaking into the ocean that is causing potential health issues.

And I've been bringing it up to the city council as the same thing. We don't have any. You guys are talking about these loans like the people in my community is 21 years old. They're in the 80s. They're probably up. They're not gonna afford them.

No. And if they don't do it on a certain time and the other person said we would do them upon approval, that's what happened to my families in the community that cannot afford to even do it or even try to make a loan. So they're gonna keep fining them if they don't do them in a timely manner?

And the other issue that I have with not just with the Department of Health, with the city and county, is that a lot of families that did extensions or they grow their house. And the city and county and the Department of Health said, hey. You gotta put on septic tank, costing $40,000, $60,000 to do it for their home.

Guess what the Department of Health said and Department of Environmental Services said? It's still gotta tie into the sewer. Where is that equal medium that these guys did spend all this money into the house to make the extension for the family? Now their septic tank is gonna be no longer accepted. So I'm not sure if you guys criteria it is or it's the city's criteria, but something has to change.

People that have made the conversions from the cesspool because they had to would be something that I really want you guys look into because it's not fair to my community that is aging. None of my people in my community that lives in the district wants it.

I understand the beach side, Waikapuna have a beach road area. Maybe you gotta figure something out, But none of the people in my community on this side where I live can afford it. And that's something we tied in a long time ago here at district, but the other sides didn't.

And this they're not gonna be able to afford it. This was, like, thirty years ago. You know? And they don't again, you gotta use a licensed plumber. You cannot do them like we did it. We did it for ourselves. We filled up our cesspool. Right? We took it all the way to the road, and then we had a licensed plumber tie it in. All of that is no no no.

See? So again, how you gonna accommodate people that cannot really afford to get one loan and you're gonna go to the bank to say yes, but they actually will tell you no. How you think that animosity and how they gonna feel that they cannot do these conversions and the burden will be put upon them if they don't get fined? You know? I don't know if you can answer all that. Maybe the city can. I don't know.

There's a lot of parts to that. I'm not sure which parts to to answer. I wanna answer, I mean, the financial part, like everybody is saying, is the difficult part. And that's why hopefully this bill, these loans that are going out with this program will be lower than what somebody can get at a bank to.

You know, that's the intent is that people can get loans that are, you know, much more beneficial to them than trying to go to the bank because the bank rates are not affordable for people or they can't even get qualified for it. So yeah. I mean, that is that is an issue.

The part about what is required and not is, you know, we have state regulations and we do require them to connect to a city sewer or a county sewer when it's available. So that is something that both E and V and the state or the county that we're in has to answer together.

And that's what we're trying to find out too. Where they're, where they wanna sewer and they can bring the sewer, we do support them connecting to the sewer system. But if they don't have a sewer system or they're not planning to, then individual wastewater systems do need to be upgraded.

So it can be a different. The burden and the financial responsibility does fall on the homeowner when they stay on a cesspool that needs to be upgraded. That's the difficult part of individual wastewater systems.

Okay. Maybe City and County of Honolulu. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chairs, Members of the Committee. Kealoha Fox, Executive Director for the Office of Climate Change, Sustainability, and Resiliency for the City and County of Honolulu. I completely agree with you.

Right now we're trying to find a mechanism that we can support, especially through my office, seeing that there are 8,000 cesspools on the Island Of Oahu. 1,000 of those are in projected sea level rise areas. I wanna make sure that we're doing something right now. And so I have $625,000 right now in our city's Climate Resiliency Fund.

I would absolutely like to have a mechanism part of this the beginnings of what a revolving loan fund would be. You're absolutely right, Senator. Right now, all of the cost is on our residents, and we have to find a financial suite of solutions to be able to offer our residents and our homeowners in every single one of our districts.

For the Island of Oahu, we're trying to start where we can. I've asked, I've submitted an appropriation request to Mayor Blangiardi's executive operating budget for FY '27, for another 950,000, so that we can continue to work with the state, and we can combine the state and the city efforts to make sure that we start somewhere and that we can have a pilot program that starts to make these conversions.

And I can say that the Department of Environmental Services, from my understanding, is conducting an assessment through the end of this year, and it's those types of details that I think we're all looking forward to understanding of what's going to be the requirements for each of the homeowners and the residents.

The reason why I bring you up is because when they had start this whole cesspool conversion because the state had made a mandate to upgrade, my community was chosen. And there's the nearest cesspool or the nearest sewer line is miles away from homes.

So there's gonna be a lot of cost that the city gonna play that's gonna probably go back to the homeowner and the people that's gonna do them. So what is your guys' solution? Because I still never hear nothing from anybody else.

That the ones did the upgrades and made the septic tanks, are they gonna be grandfather clauses that they don't have to tie in? Or they're still gonna be have to go tie in to the sewer when they bring the sewer in to? Some of the easements, the cesspool outfall is in the back of the house.

Yeah. So that's gonna be a lot of cost regardless if you guys have money to do it. Again, how are we gonna subsidize all the families including on Ewa Beach Road that took the environmental services and the Department of Health and converted because they came to the neighborhood board. We had to vote on it.

It was gonna accept them to build a septic tank to upgrade this cesspool, and it was voted through and they did it. But now they're telling those homeowners, regardless if you have a septic tank, you gotta tie into the sewer. And that's another thing that I have a problem with. So something that we need to do here or there or some place to make sure that there's enough gonna have any impact because they have septic.

You know? And they gotta get a pump or whatever the situation is. But that's something that you guys gotta consider because my community is 110% against the conversion because if you know when a community stay on Ewa Beach, we're miles away from Waikapuna and Ewa Beach Road.

But decided to say that he was gonna do that area, and there's no justification because nobody can tell us how much of the cesspools are leaking, right, with the sea level rise up and down, how much of them is pumping per month, right, how much of that is happening.

Nobody can give them an answer, but they're just saying that we're gonna get loans and we're gonna help you guys do this. Yeah. And, again, it is it's really burdensome. So I think we gotta come up with a plan to figure out how we're gonna accommodate those families that had put in there because we can't, our families can't afford buying homes.

So they converted their house so the kids could live with them, and now they're gonna be penalized after spending 40 to 60,000 for the septic tank. So you guys can take that back. I'll reach out to you guys later. But thank you, Chair, for your. Appreciate you. Thank you.

We got eight more minutes for this room. Just letting you know we only have eight more minutes for this one.

This will be super fast. You guys are putting money into this bill? I heard that correctly, City and County.

We have monies right now that have been allotted through a fiscal year 26 appropriation to the Honolulu City Council for cesspool conversions, and this process would allow us to be able to work with the state once the Hawaii Green Infrastructure Authority has the mandate and the ability to create this revolving loan fund.

A little concerned about that because revolving fund's usually systemic. It's not a one time appropriation or future appropriation. And so and, again, she and I have talked about on bill financing, which is the genesis of this, was run to the municipalities for property taxes.

So as this bill moves forward, I'm sure we're running out of time. You may wanna look at something like that to where there's a systemic property tax attachment from the City and County on Honolulu so the revolving fund can truly be sustainable revolving. Thanks, Chairs. I'm done.

We'll take a brief recess for decision making.

Okay. Having deferred with the other Chairs, the Chair's recommendation is to pass HB 1618 with technical amendments. Any discussion? Chair votes aye. For AEN.

Only technical amendments. Right? Okay.

Do you know the committee report that the issues with the the viability of the revolving fund to have the next committee look at it? Okay. Thanks.

Okay. Just for a record. Sorry. No discussion. Right?

Discussion. Yeah.

So Chair, just for discussion, I said one is we have challenges with the EDT committee. I also sit on the Ag Committee. So doesn't look well as EDT cannot move this measure because we don't have the support behind it. So if you're calling for the vote, let's call for the vote. My vote absolutely is no vote. Bill is done. Will not make it.

We could, another option is to defer decision making to 3:10.

Everybody's gone. Yeah. Everybody's gone.

Well, well, I know, but HHS can make a decision now.

So for AEN, Chair votes aye. Vice Chair?

On House Bill 1618, House Draft 1, passing with amendments. [Roll Call] Chair, you have three in favor. Motion is adopted.

Okay. For HHS, same recommendation. Chair votes aye. Pass with amendments.

Recommendation is to pass with amendments. Senate Draft 1. Noting excuse of Senator Keohokalole. Any Members voting WRs or no? Of those present, seeing none. Oh, no for Senator Fevella. Any other WRs or no? Recommendation for HHS has been adopted.

Committee on Economic Development and Tourism. As you can see, we are strapped with just two of us. And for those reasons, I would have to defer the bill because we don't have a slot in place to do it.

And the deadline.

And the deadline. Just don't have a quorum right now.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

We're good. We are adjourned.