House Standing Committee on Finance

Aloha. We are convening the House Committee on Finance. It's the agenda for Monday, March 2nd, 2026, 10:00 AM. We are in Conference Room 308. Before we get started, if you are on Zoom, do your best to stay muted until you're called upon.

We will be holding to about a two minute time limit per testifier so that we can give everyone an equal opportunity to speak. And we will have decision making to follow this agenda, which would include Friday, February 27th's 2 PM agenda. So, we'll have decision making for last week's agenda as well as today's agenda.

Okay, I think we're good. Without any further delay, we're going to get opened with HB 644, HD 2.

First we have the Department of Land and Natural Resources with comments.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Brian Nielsen, on behalf of DLNR. We stand on our written testimony. Appreciate the intent of providing comments. Available for any questions. Mahalo.

Thank you. Department of Health with comments.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Matt Carrano, Department of Health, Environmental Health Services Division. Whoa. Breaking the ice for the rest of you. We're standing on our written comments. You know we support the intent. It's always just kind of an unknown on how we're going to implement this and it costs.

Available for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition and the Climate Protectors Hawaii in support.

You gotta be careful with this chair. Good morning, Chair Todd, Vice Chair Takenouchi, and Members of the Committee. Ted Bolen, on behalf of the Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition and Climate Protectors of Hawaii.

This Bill is important because PFAS, you've heard about the forever chemicals, they're persistent, they're toxic, they're implicated with cancer and other health risks and they are in some of the foodware and they can leach into food and create a health risk. So, the US Federal Food and Drug Administration has ended grease proofing with PFAS.

Ended PFAS in grease proofing materials. Seven other states have restricted PFAS in packaging. This Bill is a good way to start in moving toward elimination of PFAS from foodware where it can cause problems for human health.

The action is needed and the Bill allows a transition time to give people time to eliminate the PFAS from the materials with a smooth transition. So, strongly urge passage of the Bill. Available for questions. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you. We have Joy Leilei Shih, in support on Zoom. Sorry, you're on mute.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

Okay. Great. Good morning. Good morning, Chair and Cice Chair. I stand on my testimony. I just wanted to make a couple of further comments, which is, you know, of course, I know we're always worried about cost of implementation running the program.

I just wanted to point out the cost—point out the fact that PFAs are known to cause major health issues such as cancer and infertility. So, we also need to consider those costs, the major health costs, associated with those effects. Over a dozen states have already fully banned PFAS in their foodware.

So, those foodware items are readily available and I think will be readily adopted by our food system. And then, also, the, the non-nature, compostable food items, we also have great associated cost with the continued burden the significantly reduced the amount of material that's going into there.

I also wanted to mention this would also reduce the amount of PFAS that goes into the landfill, which also leeches into the dirt. So, those are just my additional comments. Thank you so much for considering this. Please pass HB 644. Mahalo for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you. That's everyone who indicated they'd be joining us today. Additional testimony with comments from one organization, as well as testimony is support from three organizations and 12 individuals. Is there anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom?

Members, any questions on this measure? Seeing none, we're going to move on to the next item on the agenda. HB1566HD1 relating to energy efficiency.

We have the Hawaii State Energy Office with comments.

Morning Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee for the Hawaii State Energy Office. We stand on our written testimony providing.

Thank you. Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation Commission in support.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee Leah Laramie with the Climate Change Mitigation Adaptation Commission. We stand on our testimony in support and available for questions.

Thank you. That's everyone who indicated they'd be joining us. Additional comments from the Department of Accounting and General Services as well as support from one organization and four individuals. Is there anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom?

Okay, Members, anything on HB 1566? Seeing none. We're going to move on to the third item. HB 1618 HD1 relating to cesspool conversions.

Department of Health in support on Zoom.

Morning Chair Vice Chair Members of the Committee John Nagato with the Department of Health. The Department stands on its written testimony in support and will be available for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Department of Land and Natural Resources in support.

Aloha DLNR will stand on our written testimony in support.

Thank you. Office of Hawaiian Affairs in support.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee on behalf of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, we'll stand on our written comments.

Thank you. Public Utilities Commission in support.

Good morning. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Ashley Norman on behalf of the Utilities Commission, we stand in a written testimony in support. Available questions.

Thank you. The Nature Conservancy in support.

Nature Conservancy will stand on its written testimony and support. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii Green Infrastructure Authority in support.

Morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Gwen Yamamoto Lau, Green Infrastructure Authority. We stand on our written testimony in support. But I did just want to add a couple of things. You know, I appreciate the comments of the state procurement office, but as an existing loan fund with existing services and contractors out there, it just really complicates things.

The other thing that I wanted to discuss is we're having preliminary discussions with the city and we might be able to leverage about $1.6 million from the city with state funds. So that just extends the ability to help convert. Available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition in support.

Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Ted Bohlen, the Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition in strong support. Happy to be back in the finance Committee talking about cesspools. It's an annual event. A few years ago, Representative Ward labeled the cesspool Ted.

It's gotten so much that I've been doing cesspools for so long and when people think of cesspools, they think of me, which is not always positive. Anyway, this Bill is important because we have cesspools polluting our groundwater, affecting our reefs, damaging our reefs. Hawaii law requires, therefore, an upgrade of cesspools by 2050. It will be expensive.

It's expensive for homeowners, it's expensive for governments. We need ways to make it more affordable for homeowners. This Bill is one of them. It would help low income, low and moderate income homeowners who face credit barriers have access to funding that they otherwise to financing that they otherwise would not have.

So this is a very important Bill for extending the availability of funding for the needed upgrades. Strongly support the Bill. Available for questions. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you. We have Jessica Kai Paisley in support.

Aloha. Good morning. Chair, Vice Chair Jessica Kai Paisley on behalf of Wastewater Alternatives and Innovations, we stand on our written testimony and also reiterate our testimony as well as the Reef in Ocean Coalition. That cost is one of the biggest conversion barriers to accessible conversion. And this Bill would help alleviate that cost. So thank you and mahalo.

Thank you. As everyone indicating they'd be joining us today. Members also testimony and support from the University of Hawaii. Comments from the State Procurement Office. Support from the Office of Planning and Sustainable Development as well as the City and County Honolulu Office of Climate Change, Sustainability and Resilience. Additional support from six organizations and four individuals.

Anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom?

Members, any questions in this measure? No? Okay, we're going to move on to HB 1620 HD2 relating to energy.

Department of Taxation with comments.

Good morning.

Thank you. Hawaii State Energy Office with comments.

Good morning. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Nicole Cernohorsky on behalf of the Hawaii State Energy Office. We stand on our written testimony providing comments and are available for any questions.

Thank you. Public Utilities Commission in support.

Good morning again. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee we stand on our written testimony in support, available for any questions.

Thank you. Tax Foundation of Hawaii with comments on Zoom.

Aloha. Colleen Teramae on behalf of President Tom Yamachika. The Tax Foundation stands on its written comments. Thank you.

Thank you. Grassroots comments. Grassroots Institute of Hawaii in opposition not present. That's all the people who would be indicating they'd be joining us today. Members, additional testimony and support from Office of Hawaiian Affairs. Support from seven organizations and 27 individuals. One individual in opposition. Is there anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom?

Any questions on this measure? No.

We're going to move on to HB 1730 HD1 relating to wastewater systems.

Department of Land and Natural Resources in support.

Aloha DLNR stands on our written testimony in support.

Thank you. Department of Health with comments.

Morning. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, John Nagato with Department of Health Wastewater Branch. The Department stands on its written testimony providing comments and will be available for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. The Nature Conservancy in support.

The Nature Conservancy will stand on its written testimony in support. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition in support.

Thank you. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Ted Bohlen for the Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition in strong support. Cesspools are the biggest water pollution problem we have.

I represented the Department of Health Wastewater branch for 15 years and I know that the Department needs resources in order to achieve the monumental tasks they face of overseeing the upgrade of thousands of cesspools. So this Bill would provide some of that and would be enabled to make it again more affordable for the homeowners.

The Department needs technical assistance. They need staff and they will be able to do the job. If they can do that, they do great work, but they need more help. In particular, they need technical advice on ways to make technologies more affordable. So this Bill would provide some of that help for the Department of Health.

I think it's really important that they get that so that cesspool conversion effort can move forward. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Jessica Kai Paisley in support.

On behalf of Wastewater Alternatives and Innovations. We do stand on our written response available for any questions.

Thank you. As everyone indicating they'd be joining us today, additional testimony, support from the University of Hawaii and the Office of Planning and Sustainable Development as well as six individuals or six organizations and five individuals. Anybody else in the room wishing to testify?

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, Members, Committee. Sorry for late testimony. Diana Setness is with Office of Planning and Sustainable Development. We stand on our written testimony.

Thank you. Anybody else in the room? Anybody on Zoom?

Okay. Questions on this measure? No. We're Moving on to HB 1749 relating to cesspools.

Department of Land and Natural Resources in support.

Aloha DLNR will stand on its written testimony in support.

Department of Health in support on zoom.

Morning. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, John Nagato, Department of Health. The department stands on its written testimony in support. Thank you.

Hawaii Realtors in support.

Hello Chair and Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, my name is Lyndsey Garcia from the Hawaii Association of Realtors. So we support the intent of this Bill and we've offered friendly amendments to bring the language of the Bill in line with standard disclosure requirement language that's already in statute just to update the Committee.

We because the introducer and the speed task force reached out to us early, we were actually able to start modifying our standard forms with the language that's found in the original version of the Bill. And we're currently in the middle of that process.

We're expecting or hoping to be done to to get approval and to implement the changes to our standard forms by May if not made in November of this year.

And so we're just asking that the statute that the or the disclosure requirement is language is further aligned with the rest of the disclosure language that's found in the existing statutes for mandated disclosures. Thank you.

Thank you. Wastewater Alternatives and Innovations in support.

We'll stand on our testimony.

Thank you. That's everyone indicating they'd be joining us today. Also additional testimony and support from the University of Hawaii and the. Oh, sorry. Office of Planning and Sustainable Development.

Yes. OPSD stands on its written testimony in support.

So additional support from the University of Hawaii. Two organizations and three individuals. Anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom?

Members, any questions on this measure? If not HB 1774 HD2 relating to centralized access to resources.

Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation Commission in support.

We stand on our testimony in support. Available for questions.

Thank you. Nobody else joining us? Additional testimony in support from 7 organizations and 21 individuals. Anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom?

Members, anything?

All right. We'll get there. We'll get there. Okay. HB 1802, HD 1, relating to conservation mitigation banks.

No?

Department of Land and Natural Resources in support.

Morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Catherine Stanaway, Department of Land and Natural Resources, Division of Forestry and Wildlife. We stand on our written testimony. Just want to reiterate this Bill helps protect—helps the Department—protect threatened endangered species and encourage private landowners to participate in this protection.

It also allows for conservation banks to be an option for mitigation, so, alternatives will still exist, depending on the project. Thank you.

Thank you. Tawhiri Power LLC, in support.

We'll stand on our testimony in support.

And Earth Justice, in support, on zoom.

Aloha. David Henkin, Earth Justice. We'll stand on our testimony in support and are available to answer any questions.

Thank you. That's everyone indicating they'd be joining us. Additional support from two organizations. Anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on zoom?

Members, any questions?

Members, anything? No. HB 1980 HD1 relating to electric vehicle charging infrastructure.

Department of Accounting and General Services in support. Not present or maybe on zoom. In Person? Hawaii State Energy Office with comments.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee stands on its written testimony providing comments and are available for any messages.

Thank you. Climate Change Mitigation and Adaptation Commission in support.

Thank you.

That's everyone indicating they would be joining us today. Additional testimony and support from the Department of Transportation, six organizations and 25 individuals. Anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom? Okay.

Anything? Nope. All right. HB 1985 HD1 related assessables.

Okay. Department of Health with comments on Zoom.

Morning. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, John Nagato, Department of Health Wastewater Branch. The Department stands on its written testimony providing comments and will be available for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Department of Land And Natural Resources with comments.

DNR will stand on its written comments.

Thank you. Office of Planning and Sustainable Development in support.

OPSD will stand on its written testimony in support, available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Office of Hawaiian Affairs in support.

Good morning again. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. We had comments flagging concerns with any extension of the deadline. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition with comments.

Thank you again. Chair, Vice Chair. Members of the Committee, Ted Bohlen for Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition. The Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition strongly supports Section 3 for outreach. Very important part of any cesspool conversion program. Program that would be outreach and education for people to understand what their obligations are.

So that part of the Bill is great. I have some concerns about part two, as with the last speaker talking about extensions of the mandate in 2050. That's still 24 years away. And I think it's premature to be talking about extensions of the mandate at this point.

There are issues about how you fairly administer that and there is no recognition of the department's critical role in protecting health and environment in the Bill. So I would propose some amendments if the Bill moves forward. But in essence, I would oppose this part of the Bill. Part two. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Available for questions.

Thank you. That's everybody who indicated they'd be joining us today. Additional support from one organization and one individual. Anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Anybody on Zoom?

Members, any questions on this measure? You got anything?

No, I have a quick question.

Yeah, go ahead.

For Department of Health, please.

Yes.

Hi. Sorry. I know we've had conversations in this Committee about, you know, like the timeline and the deadline and everything. Right. And how we are likely not going to make it largely without changes. Is five years enough to even get us to the point where we'd be able to do all the cesspools?

I mean, we still, like Ted Bohlen was mentioning, we still have about 24 years before the mandate kicks in. And then the way I understood it was the five years was a maximum extension after that January 1, 2050 date.

So if we don't, I would assume we're just looking at five year increments at this time, if that's even going to pass. But yeah, I mean, five years. I'm not sure if I think the goal is to do it by 2050.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks. Members, Anything else? Okay. If not, we're going to move on to HB2101HD1. I assume there'll be questions on this one relating to commercial aquarium collection.

Department of Land and Natural Resources with comments.

DLNR will stand on its written comments.

Thank you. Office of Hawaiian Affairs in support.

Yes. Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Lena Alalei on behalf of Office of Hawaiian Affairs. We'll stand largely on our right testimony. But I did want to take the opportunity to highlight the significance of this Bill to the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. This Bill is part of our 2026 legislative package.

It was adopted by the Board of Trustees following repeat calls from our beneficiaries who are in communities most impacted by target aquarium collection practices to have regulation and a ban that would stop this from continuing because of the harm that individuals who are in the water on these systems on a daily basis see again in the communities that are most affected by commercial aquarium collection.

So it's for this reason that the Board of Trustees adopted this measure this past October, shortly after the association of Hawaiian Civics Clubs also adopted a resolution at its yearly convention calling on this legislative body to ban this practice.

And shortly after OHA took its position position, the county of Hawaii also passed a resolution calling on this body to ban the practice statewide. So I'd also like to highlight that in addition to passing the measure is is we are asking that this Committee restore the Bill to a statewide ban.

As originally written in the last committees, it was narrowed just to Hawaii island, which is true, has the most urgent need for a ban because of proposed rules that are out for public comment that would reopen the industry to the seven participants who completed the EIS for that island.

But a long term statewide ban is the fairest and most easy to enforce regulation that can put in place. And it also is responsive to our beneficiaries from the Kaneohe and Windward communities who have also seen the impacts of commercial aquarium collection on the reefs in their area.

So we do feel that this is important to emphasize it as introduced by oha. This should be a statewide ban and it's consistent with the calls of these other representative bodies that I mentioned, as well as the neighborhood boards of Guatemala, Kailua, Kaneohe and Kahalu, who again represent communities that are most affected. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii Sustainable Reef Fisheries in opposition on Zoom, not present. The Native Hawaiian Gathering Rights Association and opposition on Zoom.

Aloha Godfrey Akaka Jr Native Hawaiian Gathering Rights association, our organization is in opposition. We are. I am here to validate that fishing is our customary and traditional practice. This is discriminatory. If I was to get thousands of signatures for a petition to make the popolo sit in the back of the bus, that wouldn't be right.

This is the same thing. Fishing rules nowadays is being made off of rumors, not facts. And so as a fisher all my life, I represent fishing families throughout the state and especially on Molokai. We support. We oppose this Bill because we support the commercial fishes. Mahalo.

Thank you we have Moana Ohana in support.

Aloha Mai Kakou. My name is Mike Nakachi. I come to you humbly from Oku o Kawi on the island of Hawaii. I reside in the Kahawai Ole district. I've been a professional diver for over 40 years, going all throughout the Pa'Ina.

And I have seen the cumulative and negative impacts of the aquarium fish trade on many of our wahipana along the west side of Hawaii. And we are ultimately ground zero. We are going to be the first hammer where the fall could happen. And so I am here to in strong support of this HB2101HD1.

And for so many reasons. If we think about the economic benefit, we're talking about an industry that benefits again primarily the pet trade of America and fishermen that would reside within the state. But may I point out that the main reason that these fish are caught can also be done and propagated.

Here in Waimanalo there is biota Hawaii that is a very strong option so that we don't need to have any more wild caught on our reef. It can be done. It has been done. They're producing well over 30,000 yellow tail tang.

I'd encourage every single lawmaker to go and see this beautiful work being done here so that we can protect our reefs, we can protect our resources. And for many of us that come on traditional and customary practices of aloha ina to malama this aina and restore Aina Mamona.

This would be a step in that proper direction of trying to restore the balance and allowing many cultural practitioners that will testify after me as well to allow us to be the proper kono iki to manage our systems in an effective way and hopefully in a co management way in the future.

To do something that is pono for Hawaii. We need lavai a pono that are pono. Breaking the coral and pai pying fish into a net so that you can get a rare potter's angel that is endemic. That can be done at biota. 100,000 yellow tang to be shipped away. That can be done at Biota.

We are here that that building there at Kalanimoku is here to protect, preserve and enhance the resources. We need that body to stand up the resources.

Mr. Nakachi, if you could summarize

Again, strong support. Chair Todd, sorry if I went over, and I appreciate this time to voice our support for this Bill. Thank you. Mahalo for your time.

Thank you. Hui Aloha Kiholo in support.

Aloha Mai Kakou. My name Is Chad Wiggins. I was raised by a forest in Alabama and called to Hawaii 25 years ago to study coral reefs at the University of Hawaii Hilo. In 2001, I became a scientific diver dove with the Division of Aquatic Resources and collected much of the early data in the West Hawaii aquarium project.

In 2008, I translated those scientific diving skills to 15 year career with the Nature Conservancy. And in that time I started as a proponent for this fishery. I thought that this is a very smart fishery, protect 35% of the coastline, more fishermen, more revenue, more of one particular species of fish in some areas.

But what I've learned is that 65% of the coastline got hammered, 65% of the coral got damaged. The science does not demonstrate that this fishery is sustainable. The science does not prove that the coral reef is intact after these corals are broken to catch the fish. I am available for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Chamber of Sustainable Commerce in support not present. Friends of Hanauma Bay in support on Zoom.

Yes, good morning Chair Todd, Vice Chair and Committee Members. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Yes, thank you. I'm Lisa Bishop with Friends of Hanauma Bay on Oahu with strong support. Our reef fish and invertebrates do not have a voice.

So the written testimony in support of these voiceless constituents represents that from tens of thousands of OHA beneficiaries, 20,000 Members of the Hawaii Sierra Club, over 6,680 Members of the Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii, tens of thousands of Members of for the fishes from Hawaii and beyond, over 166 Members of the Ocean Hui Legislative Task Force, 580 Members of the Chamber of Sustainable Commerce, the Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition and hundreds of other groups and individuals.

We all speak for our voiceless constituents. The reef fish and invertebrates collected for the needless extractive and cruel aquarium collection industry. And everyone wants this band to be statewide, not just for Hawaii Island. Please support this Bill. Please extend it to its statewide band.

Mahalo for the opportunity to testify today in support of our voiceless concern constituents, the reef fish and invertebrates of our coral reefs. Mahalo.

Thank you Hoʻāla Kealakekua Nui in support.

My name is Shane Akoni Palacat-Nelsen. I'm from Kealakekua Bay, generational resident as well as the Executive Director and CEO of Hoʻāla Kealakekua Nui. We have a contract with the State of Hawaii State Parks in Kealakekua Bay to restore be restorative, not extractive of the marine resources.

This is the money that you guys already approved here at the Legislation to invest in climate adaptation, climate change, restorative, regenerative economies, not extractive ones. We are here today to remind that this is all part of a restorative process that's been going on for decades, more so from the time of the pandemic.

We all remember those times and we're coming out of those times. And right now we really need your help to continue that process so that we can continue becoming more socially responsible, whether it's economically or in our science or in our restorative process.

We need more social responsibility in our industries and we are here to strongly support this. We further also want to remind that although there's an amendment, we do support a more broader expansion. However, West Hawaii is being targeted right now and we don't have anything in place.

This is the reason why we're here at the Ledge because Kalani Moku, that building over there, cannot come up with a determination. They are seeking the Ledge to come up with a process and it's been going on for decades. We need something in place so that our state can be more socially responsible and by doing that support HB 2101. Thank you.

Thank you. We have Kalanihale in support on Zoom.

Aloha Mai Kakou. My name is Kaimi Kaupiko. I am calling in familiarly. I have submitted written testimony on behalf of my organization. We are one of three communities that have code management Kuleana with the state regarding our community based subsistence fishing area. We have also been part of this effort with aquarium fish collection for many, many years and many generations.

And I stand here in support of the efforts of all the kupuna that came before me that are gone, who have traditionally want this type of practice to end. And there is so much changes that have happened in our resources here in our community.

But I just wanted to come on and continue to urge you as lawmakers to put this ban so that we don't have to continue to go into these other areas.

And the Department as well have not been able to do much in helping us here in Kona and we West Hawaii as well as other parts of the state. So I urge you to continue to, to support this and pass this and, and finally make a closure for this fishing industry here in Hawaii.

Thank you For The Fishes in support on Zoom.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair and Committee Members. I'm Rene Umberger, Executive Director For The Fishes in strong support. We worked on this issue for 19 years. I'd like to highlight some ethical concerns with aquarium collecting. Wild marine fish experience high mortality in captivity, even under expert care.

Working with Dar, we reviewed Maui Ocean Center's permits and reports. In 2022, the center collected 802 fish. Nearly half died within one month. After 12 months, only 200 remained despite professional care in large systems. A study including Hawaii's Yellow Tang found that 80% of deaths in home aquariums were linked to poor treatment from reef to retail.

Hobbyists assume proper care ensures survival. Yet trade experts note that fewer than 1% of wild caught fish live more than a year. When fish are taken for food, their deaths serve the very high purpose of feeding families and communities. When taken for aquariums, they are expected to live. A business model built on predictable mortality

Raises serious efforts concerns. We urge you to restore this Bill to apply statewide and we thank you for the opportunity to testify and I'm available for questions. Mahalo.

Thank you Sierra Club of Hawaii in support on Zoom.

Good morning Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, you know we are in strong support of this measure. I just want to make sure that everyone understands that aquarium collection, commercial aquarium collection, commercial aquarium collection has been banned in west Hawaii waters and really across Hawaii for essentially a decade already.

Something that the Board of Land and Natural Resources has also supported. So this Bill really just enacts this status quo, this long standing status quo into law. And I did want to highlight that if this Bill is not passed, the Division of Aquatic Resources believes that the Legislature wants them to reopen this fishery.

And so even more so if they move forward the region rules for West Hawaii, we will have less DAR resources to respond to our declining reefs, to respond to our community calls for co management and even less adult care resources to respond to all kinds of poaching and other criminal activity that we need them to be on top of.

Otherwise stand on a written testimony and support of this Bill and thank you so much for your time.

Thank you brother Lohana in support on Zoom.

Aloha Mai Kakou Chair My name is Kawika Rado and I stand on my written testimony that I submitted and I strongly support this Bill to prohibit commercial aquarium fish collection. From a fiscal perspective, continuing the aquarium trade places ongoing costs to the state.

Enforcement through DAR and DOE care requires public funding and even during moratorium periods, poaching has continued. At the same time, removing breeding age fish from our reefs generates limited statewide economic return while risking long term impacts to reef ecosystems. As support tourism, shoreline protection and local fisheries.

Instead of exporting wild fish, Hawaii should be investing in captive breeding and land based aquaculture. Aquaculture creates stable local jobs, supports food security, generates taxable economic activity and reduces pressure on public Trust resources. I, respectively, urge that you pass this measure, HB2101. Mahalo.

Thank you, Earth justice in Support.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair and Committee Members. My name is Kylie Wager Cruz and I'm a senior attorney with Earthjustice. We stand on our written testimony in strong support of this Bill and also join an OHA and others request to make this back into a statewide ban.

To clarify a few points, no one has legally collected aquarium fish in West Hawaii since 2017 or on Oahu since 2021. So there will be no stopping of any ongoing legal activity as a result of this measure.

For decades, aquarium collectors had free reign to extract hundreds and thousands of reef fish each year from Hawaii's reef for just a $100 annual permit fee. Preparing an EIS for this activity was the least that collectors could do to start to look at the impacts of what was happening here.

Under well settled Hawaii Supreme Court case law, EIS acceptance does not equal permit issuance. So although there has been some level of environmental review done, that doesn't mean that the activity gets to be allowed. That's under well settled law.

And what the Hawaii Supreme Court has held is that the decision makers, including yourselves, can consider all of the information in the eis, including all of the concerns we raised within this activity and making its decisions. Just to highlight a few points.

One is that there was no species scientific based analysis of what the catch quotas should be. And there is nothing in place to prevent collectors from extracting 100% of their catch from targeted targeted areas. The reason why we're here is because DLNR told us to come here.

So in 2023, DLNR unanimously approved a community-driven rulemaking petition to ban aquarium collection statewide by administrative rule. It passed unanimously. But then the AG's office took the position that that was illegal. That only the Legislature could ban the activity. And Chair Chang told us to come to the Legislature for a legislative fix.

So that's why we're here today. And thank you so much for your time. If you have any questions, let me know. Given our long standing body of legal work on this issue, Mahalo.

Thank you. The Nature Conservancy in support.

The Nature Conservancy will stand on its written testimony in support. Thank you.

Thank you. Ohana Unity Party and support on Zoom. Shelby Billionaire. I think we can't hear you.

I'm here. Can you guys hear me?

Yes, Please proceed.

Hello, Chair. Thank you, guys. I do want to support this Bill with amendments. So I know we have the seven people who have supposedly uses for our lifeline for their life supply. Well, if only cost $100 to get a permit. And if one yellow tank is five grand. Try to get 20 yellow tank, that's 100 grand.

There's more than salaries. It's negotiating the people in the room. So I think you guys should pass this Bill with amendments to make sure clarity, consistency and transparency. So it's very equitable. Thank you very much a lot.

Thank you. We have the Koʻolaupoko Hawaiian Civic Club in support.

Hello, Mai Kakou Chair, Members of the Committee, my name is Rocky Kalihuwa, for your record, speaking on behalf of the Koʻolaupoko Civic Club, and I'm also the chair for the Aha Moku, the state Ahamoku. I'm speaking in support, but I'm asking that you do make an amendment to include Oahu or at least Kaneohe Bay.

Because we have been monitoring the Kaneohe Bay. And just recently, three days ago, I picked up my son who works at HIMB, for your information desk, the Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology. My son is in that water five days a week.

On the way out, I met with Joanne Leong, who is the former chair, the head of the HIMB, and she told me, Rocky, I have some information on aquarium fish. I said, what? She said, the data you got is fabricated. She said, there's other data on aquarium fish you need to know about.

Because I told her, what are you doing there? She said, I just had a big meeting there with other professors and they were talking about the aquarium fish. So I didn't get a chance to talk. I told her, there's a hearing on Monday.

She said she'll try to get the information to me, but she does belong to the Hawaiian Civic Club. And I'm sure tomorrow is our General membership meeting. We'll get more information. But another thing is, my husband gave up his commercial license about 40 years ago. He was a pure Hawaiian, and he foresaw.

He told him he wanted to stay. He warned us the limu is depleting. People laughed at him. They didn't believe him. He started the limu project in Kaneohebe, but he worked with the Office of Hawaiian affairs with that time chair, Colette Machado. He gave her seedling.

He went to Molokai, and together they planted seedlings in her fish pond. Today there's a statewide shortage on limo. Nobody believed it, but she got. We still got Khaleeds. We can restore it again. But you know what the warning is? We're running low on this fish and we do tours. I can tell you.

Ko‘olaupoko Hawaiian Civic Club, we do. We give free tours to our community 96744. We take them out on the bay. And least twice a year and it's free. Maybe one day you guys should come come check out the bay. And you can see what's really happening in our bay.

You know, before we used to just drive in the bay. You could see one reef. I'm a lavaia myself. One reef. I see yellow and it's all a yellow tang. Today you see no yellow. We take schools out, they come back with letters. Thank you for taking us on a trip on a grass bottle boat.

Although we didn't see any fish, we did see the Hodu. So he's telling you a story together, all of us together. We gotta start looking at our resources. And remember, the Hawaiians always thought of the seven generations ahead of us. Don't wait for us to lose it all. We gotta now stop together and preserve what we got. Mahalo.

Thank you. Next we have Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council in opposition on zoom.

Hello, Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Art Parola. I am an attorney speaking on behalf of the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council in Washington, D.C. our Members include aquarium fishers and aquaculture facilities in Hawaii. We strongly oppose this Bill.

Our fishery Members in West Hawaii have been subjected to an onerous and complicated EIS review process. They've complied with all requirements and DAR has issued a proposed rules package to regulate this fishery. This fishery has more data and management than any other fishery in Hawaii and much more than most fisheries around the world.

To pass this Bill and ban this fishery would not only be a failure for sustainable fisheries management, but but would also be a failure for constituent fishing families who have complied with every request the state has made of them, no matter how arduous.

At the beginning of the EIS project or process, our members reached out to us for assistance. Because the heap of requirements are so complex and technical, complying takes a team of lawyers and consultants just to understand them.

Sustainable management of fisheries resources and habitat is neatly understood by the fishing families in West Hawaii who rely on these aquatic resources and to sustain their livelihoods. Still, the process that has been required of them seems to be designed to be only understandable to some with substantial legal training.

Even so, with our help, the fishers have met every single one of the requirements. We urge you to allow DAR to use sound science to manage Hawaii's fishery resources.

Passing this Bill would amount to ballot box biology, which almost always results in worse outcomes for fisheries and wildlife resources and and for the people who depend on them for their livelihoods. Thank you for hearing me today.

Thank you. We have Sustainable Reef Fisheries in opposition on zoom now present. Oh, sorry. Please.

Said it was so important I'd show up. So. Whoa, that chair is dangerous. Aloha. My name is Ron Tubbs and former aquarium fisherman and I'm also a research scientist. Been studying and gathering journals for decades, especially regards to the fishery.

Since I was involved in the fishery, University of Hawaii ecology classes received A's, known reserves, unknown reserves, recycle rates. The use of renewable resources is key to the future of sustainability of Hawaii. I don't understand ecology in regards to this fishery, but talking about the most renewable resource on the planet, it can be easily managed.

It has been managed. The state has proved that. You've got all of your main marine biologists with PhDs that have been directly involved in fish counts and reviewing all of the research that's been done over decades telling you, do not ban the aquarium fishery. The state is in dire straits now. We're at war.

Okay, what do you think is going to happen to tourism? The University of Hawaii is telling you to differentiate and diversify the economy. So yeah, let's shut down our sustainable fisheries. The highest fish counts in the state are reef fish, yellow tangs. Kohli tangs in west Hawaii are the fourth and fifth largest and most abundant fish.

New research on yellow tanks have disproved the fact that they produce only during the full moon. Looks like they produce every day. They're producing 1.14 million to 1.55 million per year per female with 15 month doubling time for the complete population. Four months at Fry at Sea, three months reaching 2.2 inch reproductive stage.

It's incredible the reproductive ability of these fish during the highest. 2017, 2014 were the highest populations during the aquarium fishery. So why are the highest populations of the fish during the aquarium fishery? You need to look at the science. You need to ignore me, fishermen.

You need to ignore those who are making money, ecology groups by getting grants. These guys are getting paid to testify. I'm not getting paid. Matter of fact, I don't have a permit. I'm out of a job. Kind of jobs I'm doing now. You'd be ashamed, especially holding a research degree.

Finish summarizing your testimony.

Okay, so yeah, here's a few points. Potters reproduce 5000 fry per spawn daily 1.3 days. Flame rests produce thousands of fry every day. The last of the rafts, 0.5 million fry per year out of two out of every three days. All these fish are of least concern on IUCN and they are not CITES. Okay.

Daily spawning of triggerfish, 32,000 alluas, 4.4 million eggs per spawn.

We do have your written testimony, if you can just.

Yes, and I'll close there. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you. We have Mary Tubbs in opposition.

Aloha Chair, Finance Members. I'm Mary Tubbs. I'm a retired public school teacher and data specialist. I'm opposed to House Bill 2101 because it ignores current data from DAR and an opinion letter from world renowned oceanographers that Hawaii's aquarium fishery is sustainable.

The premise that the aquarium fishery did irreparable harm to the yellow tang population years after closure is false propaganda. Many factors affect fish counts, as proven by the Hawaii Institute for Marine Biology, who completed a study last August on Hanauma Bay, studying the seven month shutdown of Hanauma Bay, which they shut out all the tourists.

And Hanauma Bay has never been fished by aquarium divers. And they found that there was a remarkable comeback in the fish. When the crowds left, the fish returned. There are many factors that affect fish counts. The aquarium fishery diversifies Hawaii economy. It supports many businesses and brings in millions of dollars to our state.

Aquariums are scientifically proven to reduce stress and they ignite student passion about scientific concepts. And they are a valuable tool for teaching students and the public the values of appreciating, respecting and caring for nature. They're not just ornamental. This Bill, I believe, is unjust.

It disregards the rights and efforts of all the aquarian fishers who were directed by the Hawaii Supreme Court to pursue an eis, which they did at great expense. If you could summarize, please vote no on 2101. Thank you.

Thank you. We have Randy Fernley in opposition on zoom.

Okay, can you hear me now?

Yes, please proceed.

Okay. Aloha, Committee Members. My name is Randy Fernley and I urge you all to vote against the passage of this Bill. And I stand on my written testimony. As a tropical fish owner for the past. Over the past 50 years in IEA, I had to end my business due to the fisheries shutdown.

This had a major effect on both my wife and my 12 employees. Now, although we sold marine aquarium fish, of which we had a great reputation, we also conducted hundreds of elementary school students in identification, ecology and marine conservation. This education program was irreplaceable, but is now gone. And I blame the shutdown.

Also, I must mention, in regards to the sale of aquaculture fish, I am 100% behind it. However, in trying to promote that at my store, I found that biota would not sell to our store on Oahu. I'm presuming it was because we sold wild caught fish at a fraction of the price to our local customers.

Also, in addressing decreased fish populations that some people haven't mentioned here on Oahu and on the Big island, of the four most collected species, the Kohli, the yellow tang, the Potter's angel, and the Naso Tang, a recent 2024 NOAA report states that these populations have all increased on both the Big island and Oahu from 2010 to 2017 when the fishery was shut down.

I also mentioned that fish collection was ongoing throughout these years. To me, that sounds sustainable, is it not? Thank you very much for allowing me to testify.

Thank you. We have Jai Cox in opposition on Zoom.

There we go. Do you guys hear me?

Yes. Please proceed.

Thank you. Aloha, board Members. My name is Jai Cox. I'm a spear fisherman from Kau and I strongly oppose this Bill. The West Hawaii fishery has proved to be sustainable and what I see when diving supports that. This fishery is not damaging the reef. Yellow Tang is also not a traditional food fish.

I've been in the ocean all my life and I've never seen or heard of yellow tang being used as a food fish. I see this Bill as a shot in the dark because they know the fishery will be open soon. What I see in the water is different than what these people are telling you.

If you do not believe in the science that does support this fishery, I challenge you to strap a mask and snorkel on and take a look for yourself. This fishery will also support families with good paying jobs while taking very little from the ocean. Banning this fishery hurts local people who depend on it. So please vote down this Bill. Mahalo for your time.

Thank you. We have Nick in opposition on Zoom.

Hello, can you hear me?

Yes, please proceed.

Okay, thank you. Thank you for your time. I'm opposed to Bill HB 2101. And I also want to say that I'm a fisherman and I've lived here for many years on the Big island as a fisherman.

And I've had to listen to a lot of people say things like they want to kill fishermen, they want to kill fisheries, they want to kill fishing in Hawaii. Well, what's the reason for them saying that? Because it's either landowners who own houses on the, on the shoreline or hotels who don't want people coming on the shoreline.

And it's been a long issue of people trying to kick out fishermen from, from the beaches. I think a lot of the intention behind this Bill is prejudice and it's hateful. And I think there's a lot of misconduct that was said misrepresentation of what's going on with the research on the fisheries.

I believe that the DAR has done a huge, tremendous amount of work trying to defend this fishery from these people who have nothing but bad will towards this community and this government. So I respectfully ask you guys to vote against this Bill.

Thank you.

And I also want to say that the Department, the DAR Department has had a huge amount of rules on the aquarium fishery and they have shown over decades that the fishery has been sustainable.

So for any information that you want to consult as to the sustainability and the of the resources in the fishery, I suggest that you please Consult with the DAR and not some of the other comments that were, like I said, were pretty prejudice. Thank you.

We have Eric Koch in opposition on Zoom.

Hello? Hello, can you hear me?

Yes. Please proceed.

Aloha Chair Todd and fellow representatives. I have submitted written testimony which explains my thoughts in greater detail. I am in strong opposition to this Bill. I'm testifying on my own behalf, not a giant environmental organization or political action committee.

This Bill seeks to ban my business and the interest and investment I have made into an expensive and extensive HEPA of process. My fellow fishers and I were forced into this mess years ago by a lawsuit ordering HEPA 343 before permits could be issued again.

We were led to believe by that that if we prepare an EIS and defend it in court, we would be able to put our lives back together again. It's wiped us out financially.

It's taken longer and accrued more cost because these activists that are here today did everything they could to undermine and impede the process that they requested. The fishermen complied, and now they request a ban. This has been an abusive process, and in my opinion, it's illegitimate in the way it functions. Nothing short of a circus.

Activists would demand more meetings, more lawsuits, more negotiations, all in bad faith. We carry on in this process because there's no turning back. We are all in, as they say. We are financially locked into a process that we paid for. Earth justice will have you believe that there's not.

This is nothing, and the fishers just should walk away. That's not a reasonable position. Have you ever seen what goes into an EIS? Not one, but two. There's currently an administrative rules process in motion set forth by the Land Board installing even stricter rules based on the outcome of an approved revised EIS.

The fishermen sacrificed everything to get to this point. Now the activists want to ban. What about this long process we have participated in? What about this HEPA of process? The rules process? What about all the money the fishermen sank into this? The thousands of hours of time? Where is our due process?

This shows me that our system is broken and is easy to weaponize against regular people. In the proposed rules, we can only take five species of fish down from eight. Three of them were removed for cultural reasons at the request of these same activists.

Just a few months back, they asked and the concessions was made by the DLNR. The fishery is sustainable.

Summarize. Start to summarize your testimony and wrap up.

I'm landing it right now. Okay. The fishery is sustainable. The new rules further enhance this principle. The Fishery in West Hawaii is the most managed fishery in the state. Places such as Kalikakua and Milolii have been kapu for 25 years. Don't take my word though. Ask DAR. Read the EIS. We had to do them two times.

Look at the court proceedings, all the battles the fishers had to go through, all the way back to the Supreme Court. It's all there in black. It's all there in black and white. Please don't benefit your business. Mahalo.

Thank you. We have Nick Foley in opposition on Zoom. Not present. We have Rufus Kimora in opposition on Zoom not present. Daryl Smith in opposition on Zoom not present. We have Kai Koch in opposition on Zoom.

Can you hear me? I'm trying to get my camera working.

We can hear you. Please proceed.

Okay. Aloha Chair and Committee Members. My name is Kai Koch. I'm from the Big island of Hawaii. I've been involved in this fishery for many years. The aquarium fishery has provided stable jobs and supported families in our community for generations. We need these opportunities to help keep local people independent rather than depending entirely on tourism-related work.

I kept aquariums my entire life and it's a shame we can't even enjoy our own local fish at home without importing them from afar. Hawaii's aquarium fishery is world renowned for its strong science, strict management permits, catch limits and protected zones like Westwise replenishment areas.

Data show species like the yellow tang have remained robust in these monitored areas, making it one of the most sustainable regulated inshore fisheries. Yet bills like HB 2101 threaten to ignore the process and eliminate good jobs in our struggling economy. We need balanced decisions that protect both our reefs and the families that rely on sustainable practices.

Please choose wisely. People's lives and community are at stake. Please vote no. Mahalo for your time.

Thank you. We have Clayton Kubo in opposition on Zoom not present. Edward Lui in opposition on Zoom.

Can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Please proceed.

Hello.

Hi. We can hear you.

Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee. My name is Edward Lui. I am an 86 year old lifelong Hawaii resident and lifelong fisherman. In my life, I have probably killed and eaten more than a thousand fish from the reef.

I have also kept hundreds of dozens of fish alive in an aquarium and have kept Potter's Angels alive for more than five years. I am testifying in opposition to HB2101 as risk because it is discriminatory and misguided. I support the protection of Hawaii's reef life and would like to see it preserved in a sustainable fashion.

One of the main reasons reef life is being affected is due to consumption by by those who kill and eat fish and those who capture and keep them alive. This Bill targets only those who keep them alive. That is misguided policy. One of my hobbies is keeping marine fish in an aquarium.

However, due to my age and physical impairments, I can no longer catch my own fish. Therefore, I am dependent on the commercial market. This legislation would deny me and others in Hawaii like me who cannot catch their own fish to have a marine aquarium. That is discriminatory.

The real problem is that our limited resources are supplying consumers outside of Hawaii. I suggest prohibiting the export of Hawaii's reef oil, like Save Hawaii's resources for Hawaii's people. Thank you.

Thank you. We have Kaikea Nakachi in support on Zoom.

Aloha. My name is Kaike Nakachi and I stand on my written testimony and strong support of HB2101. I'm a native Hawaiian researcher with my master's degree in conservation biology and environmental science. I participated in the cultural impact statement with my Ohana, including my grandpa, who has since passed away.

We gave pages of notes on how the trade impacts our specific Native Hawaiian practices in West Hawaii. They left all of our pages of notes out of their CIS, left it in an appendix, and basically said that there would be no cultural impact. So at every step along the way, they are taking out our native Hawaiian voices.

But I'm also concerned with how they're attempting to show that the trade is sustainable. My biggest concern is that they give population estimates for the entirety of West Hawaii to show that the percentage that they want to take, even though it's hundreds of thousands, is small. But the area of take is not the entire coast.

And the areas that are closed have the highest fish biomass because they've protected themselves against the trade. So it's very misleading when they. When they show the entire population to claim that it's sustainable. In one of the questions, the last Committee asked Dar if they'd be able to detect the change if a fishery crashed.

And I can say at their current level of surveying 24 sites once a year and the NOAA sites that come once every three years, by the time they were able to detect the change, it would be far too late and far too devastating of a change to detect.

So for those various reasons of cultural and ecological impacts, I please urge you to pass HB2101 and help us end this trade. It doesn't make sense for every other Ocean user to be impacted by a handful of those that are seeking a profit. Mahalo.

Thank you.

Before we move on, I just want to thank everyone for keeping this pretty respectful so far. I was in a hearing on this like four or five years ago and it got kind of wild. So just wanted to put that in there since we're about halfway through. Good job. Good job.

I don't want to jinx it. I don't want to jinx it, but, you know, so far so good. Not too bad. Right on.

All right, next we have Uilani Niko in support.

I come from a long line of fishermen from the village of Milolii. I stand firmly on my written testimony strong and unwavering support of this measure. HB 2101 and this measure does not have any funding allocation. It's not ask support any positions.

But this measure is about recovering the liability and the cost to Hawaii that's already incurred and will continue to occur as long as we have commercial aquarium collection. We're not talking about the folks that want to have this. Like uncle was talking about having that in his home.

We're not talking about our keiki here that want them to just to have an aquarium. We're talking about commercial taking fish off of our reefs and putting it into the pet industry. The demand is not here in Hawaii. The demand is around the world.

People want a piece of Hawaii and this is a sale selling off Hawaii piece by piece. And along with it, you degrade our culture, you degrade our reefs, you degrade our traditional practices. So the cost cannot is so immeasurable. This measure is requesting the highest duty in Kuleana to Hawaii, to our reefs, to to our keiki.

The future they deserve. Not the pilikia we leave behind commercial aquarium collection. You've heard a lot of testimony of what it is about how much they will be able to take about cornucops used to be known as the Gold coast for a reason. For this very reason that no longer is the same anymore.

Before we talked about having food fish on that list. Pakukui is a ono of arcupune itself Corner Pakukui right now because subsistence fishers would harvest the mature, but the aquarium collectors would take the babies. So imagine you don't have to be a scientist, you don't have to be a biologist.

You don't have to have a PhD to know. And for us who live along these coastlines can see it for ourselves and we know what the damage did. Pakukui right now in his third year moratorium, it hasn't even been addressed and fixed and talking about the different types of monitoring that goes on.

For that reason, we reduce the amount of monitoring we do from four times a year to once a year. And NOAA is coming once every three years. So I ask you, please support this Bill, pass it, let's end it and let's give back. All hands on deck on this and all fish on Aries. Mahalo Nui. Thank you.

We have Kim in opposition on Zoom.

Hi Chair and Members. You know, I always thought politicians were there to make people's lives better. This Bill doesn't do that. In fact, it ruins lives if you pass this, if you oppose this Bill, a few groups get nothing but hurt feelings. Aquarium collection has not occurred in their areas, their private FRAs for over 25 years.

The fishery has done everything. The courts, the opposition DLNR, DAR and all of these NGOs and others have asked for their lives, have literally been put through hell just to get back to work. And this Bill will deny science, deny process. This very Legislature created and denied fishermen their due process to get their lives back.

They don't know how to navigate the legislative issues. They're on the water just trying to survive like so many others in Hawaii. All of these groups aren't for the people. And you should not listen to them. Listen to the little guy who was forced to do a process only the rich corporations could do. Could you do an EIS?

I guess think about that for just wanting to fish. I asked you to stand up today for the little guy. Stand up for science and finally stop catering to the multimillion dollar special interest groups. It's a simple question. Do you support fishing or not? Because that is what this is. At the end of the day.

Does the auction block ship fish? Absolutely. Why are there 3,000 commercial fishers? Because Hawaii supports commercial interests. We have. We do not live citizens ways of life anymore. People got to put gas in their giant trucks. And I ask you to be reasonable. Ask DAR.

Don't, don't listen to one side or the other because we're not the ones doing the fish counts. We can tell you what we believe and what we see with our eyes. But ask DAR, you guys fund them for a reason.

And with that, I thank you for your time and humbly ask you oppose this Bill and let the the process play out. Thank you.

Thank you. We have Keanu Binney-Medeiros in support.

Hello Chair, Vice chair, Members of the community. My, my name is Keanu Binney-Medeiros. I'm a millennial descendant of Kealakeua Bay, I was born and raised in Kealakeua Bay and today I'm a proud hoaʻāina of Ho‘āla Kealakekua Nui. My role at Ho‘āla Kealakekua Nui focuses on documenting and monitoring reef's health based on species presence and human use impacts.

I stand on the written testimony I submitted. I'm here today because I see firsthand every day as a young scientific diver how delicate and fragile our reef system really is. These fish that are being targeted for a commercial aquarium collection are vital to maintaining our reef's health. They're important. They maintain the balance of our reef.

They're the ones fighting the most to maintain a healthy ecosystem. Aquarium collection is in direct conflict with that. How is it sustainable? How does this support Hawaii? At the end of the day, the cost that Hawaii has to pay to support the aquarium collection is something that can become irreversible for our future generations.

I stand here and respectfully ask you to support this Bill.

Thank you. We have Eric Moenick in opposition on zoom. Not present. Randy Cates in opposition on zoom not present. Jim Lovell in opposition on Zoom.

Good morning, Chair Todd, Members of the Committee. Thank you. Time. I'm opposed to this Bill. So here we are again. I've been doing this for 46 years now. I have heard it all. The they're wiping out the resource. They all die. There are hundreds of collectors.

They lie about the number of fish they collect and ship the Gold coast because the water used to be yellow. They're destroying the coral. I could go on and on. These statements are all lies. This is a youth conflict, not a resource issue.

This Bill is based on lies and its only purpose is to discriminate against one user group. A revision was made during the last hearing to limit implementation to counties with populations between 200 and 300,000. That means they're doing just Hawaii County.

This is meant to further discriminate against the seven fishermen in Kona who already past the Heapa process. No one else would be included. So no other county is possible depleting the resource. I guess the opening statement on this Bill is a lie. It says the Legislature finds the capture and sale of refish to be unsustainable.

A reminder that the industry was open. The number of yellow tangs increased by 3.4 million fish. But our opponents say we're not sustainable. They claim that DLNR does not even have a definition of sustainable. An increase of over 3 million yellow tangs shows that this industry is clearly sustainable using any definition you want.

So let's take an industry that's sustainable, renewable non polluting and brings millions of dollars in the state and eliminate it and destroy the livelihood of Hawaii residents. After all, isn't that what everyone campaigns on? If elected, I will eliminate more good jobs in Hawaii and force more people to le the state.

Remember this industry has completed the EIS required by HEPA laws with a finding of no significant impact to the resource. That was supported by the SO Hawaii Supreme Court and the injunction was lifted. Are we now saying the SO Hawaii Supreme Court does not know what they're talking about? And they're wrong.

One fisherman per day is going to destroy the entire Kona coast. But thousands of other ocean users per day have no impact. Really? our opponents.

Can have you start to wrap up your testimony, please.

Thank you. Shouldn't we have a higher standard here? Are we really going to support a Bill that's based on a lie? I strongly support you to oppose this Bill today. Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. We have Malia Kipapa in support.

Aloha, House Committee on Finance. My name is Malia Kipapa. I am from Hawaii island and a lineal descendant of Pahoehoe Kona. I stand in strong Support of Bill 2101 to prohibit the commercial aquarium collection of our aquatic life. And I stand on my written testimony.

Our reefs are not for sale and Hawaii cannot afford to subsidize their extraction. In West Hawaii, only 7 permittee pay $100 a year. That is just $700 in revenue for the state. While enforcement alone is estimated to cost the state over 300 to $500,000 annually. There is no dedicated budget for this commercial practice.

The ecological damage, cultural harm and risk that risk to our tourism economy carry costs that cannot be measured even with current prohibitions. Poaching continues. The proposed rules add steps but provide no guaranteed enforcement. Our reefs are a public trust resources and part of our ancestral heritage.

I respectfully urge you to pass the Bill 2101 and protect them from for future generations. Mahalo.

Thank you. We have Lisa Kate in opposition on zoom.

Aloha, Chair and Members of the Committee. I just wanted to comment. I'm in opposition. I wanted to comment that a permanent statutory ban will override the regulatory tools that the Legislature has already empowered DLNR to use including adaptive management strategies and emergency rulemaking to address any environmental concerns and to protect our reef habitats.

While a permanent ban will also compromise the environmental review process. And that has already been undertaken by many of the for to reopen the fishery. I'd like you to also consider those opposed to the aquarium fishery and their political agendas that are financially backed by out of state large scale environmental organizations just to close down the fishery.

Locals can't afford to compete with those types of interest groups. All Hawaiians, fishermen and consumers will be impacted if this Bill goes through to ban one fishery because this will the initial closure is going to open up the door for the next fishery, the next action that these groups are going to go after.

I, you know, I as a native Hawaiian, I come from a fishing family and I want my kids, my grandchildren to be able to eat kole and, you know, other reef fish.

And I'm afraid that if this ban goes through that in the future they're going to move on to the next fishery and the next fishery and the next fishery. So please do what the Senate did with the companion Bill and have this deferred. Thank you.

Thank you. We have Alohi Nakachi in support.

Aloha, Kakou. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, my name is Alohi Nakachi. I'm a Native Hawaiian indigenous scientist with a PhD from University of Hawaii in the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Management. I stand on my written testimony for a statewide ban on the aquarium trade and just a little bit of context.

I've been in hearings about the aquarium trade since I was about five and it's been a big motivation for me to continue into contemporary academic education systems as I've long felt that Hawaiian voices have long not been well acknowledged or outright dismissed.

We do not and have not had good systems in place that do well to support Ike Hawaii, Malama Aina, and Aloha Ina, to strive for Aina Momona. And that's why we continue to come here, time and time again. Our Aina stewards and our people of place have ancestral, generational, and long-term ecological knowledge.

We've heard time and time again, even in this room today, how the visuals of places have completely changed and the fish behavior have completely changed. Our molelo have been disrupted and broken from extraction without malama.

The aquarium trade is an extractive commercial industry supporting almost entirely residents with no mopuau hau to Hawaii that ship our fish out of place, out of Aina systems, and out of the islands. We have seen, from contemporary ecological data, places without stewards and stewardship or forms of malama continue to decline.

While we face continued and compounding environmental stressors, unknown impacts of climate change, with coral reefs projected to be in critical survival in the next 20 to 30 years, we cannot allow an unnecessary practice that only supports a hobbyist industry almost completely outside of the Paina while we continue to struggle with diaspora and feeding our own people.

As you hear the voices of the people placed throughout the islands, I urge you to support a statewide band. I have researched some of the social and cultural harms of practices of commercial activities, so I'm happy to expand more if you have any questions.

But I'll leave that as that because I don't know how much time I have, but mahalo.

Thank you. That was like a perfect two minutes. We have Riley Koch, in opposition, on zoom.

Hey, can you hear me?

Yes, we can. Please proceed.

Aloha, board members, my name is Riley and I strongly oppose this Bill. This Bill would essentially kill the aquarium fishery that has been an ongoing process for years. The fishermen have the science to back them up. They did their EIS, they did their HIPAA, and they're headed towards opening the fishery.

And still, bills like this come out with rubbish claims saying that lauipala is a traditional food. Through my whole life, I've been around the ocean consistently, talking to fishermen, divers, and looking at people's catch. Many of the people I talk to are native Hawaiian. I've never heard of or seen yellow tang being eaten.

It is strange to me that until this Bill, yellow tangs were never brought up as food fish through this whole aquarium process. I think that they are going to try to take more and more species from the divers, saying they are all caucao. Look at the science.

Also, listening to these testimonies, I ask how is putting a fish in a tank giving it a perfect home with infinite food more cruel than putting a spear through them, oftentimes ripping off and wounding the fish. And I say that as a diver. Don't pass this Bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Next, we have Todd Shirocki, in opposition, on Zoom.

Morning, Chair Todd and Committee. Can you hear me?

Yes, we can. Please proceed.

Okay. My name is Todd Shiraki. I'm from Kona. I'm in strong opposition of HB 2101. As a longtime fisherman, I feel that this fishery is very sustainable and it's the only fishery that has an approved EIS. Please let DAR do their jobs, as they already have a plan for its future.

Please remember that these are local jobs that this ban will eliminate. I hear a lot of people talking about broken coral. It's kind of irritating. We do not break coral to catch these fish. Again, please oppose HB 2101 and let DAR do their jobs. Thank you.

Thank you. We have David Ramos, in opposition, on Zoom.

Aloha, Chair and Board Members. My name is Dave Ramos, born and raised on Oahu and a 33-year veteran of aquarium fishing. I oppose HB 2101. At best, there are only 10 real aquarium fishermen on Oahu, and all know how to rotate areas to assure sustainability. The science support this. Question being, is it culturally acceptable to Hawaiians?

Before the overthrow of 1893, the Alii Nui appointed the Korohiki to look after the Ahupua'a from the mountains to the sea. After the overthrow, the Hawaiian territorial government abolished the Konohiki system. With that gone, Hawaii needed people who could take care of the oceans and the mountains to keep a balance to the Aina.

This is where the Lavaya stepped in to take care of the reefs and fish and the Kanaka Hahai Oloholona to take care of the hunting and management of the land. This is Kanaka Maoli history. Fishing sustainably is a big part of Hawaiian culture.

There are those that are out there right now who wish to pit Hawaiians against Hawaiians, to divide and conquer the Hawaiian people. It's heartbreaking to witness the great, powerful, and beautiful people of Hawaii slowly disappear with their culture. Sadder still, it will also be at the hands of some of their own.

I have many family, friends, who are Kanaka. All agree to oppose this Bill. Mahalo.

Thank you. We have testimony from Jerry Eisham in opposition.

Hello. My name is Jerry Eisham from Waianae. I'm an aquarium fisher. Been an aquarium fisherman pretty much most of my life. Started when I was literally 13 years old. Grew up in the industry. I don't own any aquarium fish. I food fish too. And I'm strongly in opposition to this Bill. Just to give you—I want to touch on a few things.

Sorry, I'm gonna be all over the place. I'm not a public speaker, just trying to defend my livelihood. Since the shutdown, my life has forever been changed. And I can tell you, the job I have today, I make a third of what I could survive before. We did that EIS.

Now, when we did the EIS process, we was told, we just wanted you guys to do an EIS. Once we get through the process, we was told you can fish. Here we are today with the opposition, animal rights groups, and others trying to, once again, move the goalpost. Okay.

And it's just very disheartening as, just seeing that, as just the average person trying to get to the system and how rigged it is, because truly, you need to be a rich corporation to get through the environmental politics in Hawaii. I've come to learn that. And that is wrong. This is why our people moving off the island.

This is why, because we keep holding our own people back. We like armor crabs in a bucket. Every time somebody get in the head, we pulling them down, and it's not right. So, as far as a breaking coral part, I just want to crash—I want to stop that right now.

First of all, when we go diving, the average depth is between 60 and 100 ft water. That's where we dive. We get a total of between 15 to 22 minutes. No diver, no aquarium fisherman will be on the bottom breaking coral, wasting their time, and then try to catch fish. You don't have enough time. So, it's just nonsense.

But here, they gotta give you a reason why you shut it down. Because at the end of the day, if they come over and they just tell you, I just don't like what they do because it's just not ethical, that's not enough. They know that. So, you got to create these issues.

And if somebody is breaking coral, I'll be the first one to say, you know what? They gotta go, they gotta get arrested, do what you can. Because I can tell you right now that wouldn't last. Why not? It would come into the harbor with flipped over trailer, etc, etc. Okay, well, I just.

I'll have a—I'll have a question for you.

Sorry. Yeah. And so, I just want to say if DLNR has the science, ask them. But ask the opposition this one thing. Once you guys ban this trade, once you ban it, it's banned already. There has to be a number.

Even if the number is one, there has to be a number that it is sustainable. Ask them what number that is and you're always gonna get the same thing. 0, 0, 0. Okay. That should tell you all you need to know. But I recommend you don't ask fish...ask the professionals. Scientists ask DLNR. Okay. Sorry.

No, no. I got a question for you later, after.

Sorry, I will conclude. If now—I heard a lot of things about saying not right, not pono, but then get, but yet, for some reason, it's okay for some other tourist boats, as well as somebody in the room might, for running around racing on a boat with four.

Racing around 60 miles an hour, 400 horsepower motors blazing the coast, killing all the baby fish and yet all the friends, not a peep, because the environment. Either the environment is in danger or it's not, right? So, thank you. Sorry, I get worked up because I'm not.

Thank you. We also have Manuel Guerrero, in support, on zoom. Paul Kenzo, in opposition on Zoom. Paul Kenzo?

Thanks.

My video.

You're good.

Is my video on?

Yes.

My name is Paul Kimsel. I'm from Waianae. Been doing this thing for years with you guys. I'm tired of it. I gotta come over here, I gotta listen to this circus being on you guys' desk, you guys making jokes and laughing about how many people coming over here for testify.

Meanwhile, taking time out of my day again over and over every year for come tell you guys the same stuff and you guys don't even listen. I feel like I'm wasting my time. All the fishermen call me to come testify. I'm so sick of it.

The only people who want to keep this going is all of those same nonprofit groups for the fishes, galapiko, whatever, the guys from Kane'ohe Bay. They get billions of dollars from their rich friends to come and fight me every year year round. They make choke money doing that.

Trust me, give way bigger business and all of these things that they're doing then there is in aquarium fishing in Hawaii because an aquarium fishing in Hawaii gets zero dollars in that. And I'm still over here fighting this fight.

I gotta sit over, listen to you guys giggle and laugh and complain about how much of us get coming over here testifying. Makes me sick. Every time we prove that we sustainable, they move the goalpost, over and over. The fact that non-fishermen-- I heard the other lady talking to you guys about pakukui. None of you know what that is.

None of you is fishermen, and all of those people coming up over there testifying against us, they not fishermen either, but if they was, they'd be scared to death about one law like this where you give some arbitrary government body the ability to just ban you outright without coming over and at least voicing our concern. I'm tired of coming over here. Squash this bill immediately. Let the process play out.

The only good news out of all of this is now they gotta change laws because they know we gonna beat 'em on it. I would like to take questions from any of you guys if you have it. I have nothing further. I strongly oppose this bill. Paul Kimsel from Waianae.

Thank you. We have Elena Bryant, in support on Zoom.

Hello, Chair Todd, Vice Chair, and members of the committee. My name is Elena Bryant. I'm testifying in strong support of this bill, but I urge this committee to amend the bill to also include a ban on commercial aquarium collection on Oahu or at the very least Kane'ohe Bay. I was born and raised in Ko'olaupoko.

I come from a long line of subsistence and commercial food fishers. I've also served on DLNR's Kane'ohe Bay Regional Council since 2021. Our community's livelihood depends on the health of our reef ecosystems, healthy and thriving fish populations, and bin lawai ai pono, only taking what we need to feed our community.

When aquarium collection rates in Kane'ohe Bay skyrocketed in 2019 and 2020, where we saw the tripling of Yellow Tang collection to over 40,000 animals of that species alone taken from our bay, numerous organizations in our community took immediate action and have had robust discussions with both sides of the table, and as a community, we decided that the ornamental pet trade is not compatible with our community values and priorities.

Numerous Ko'olaupoko community organizations passed resolutions calling for a legislative ban on commercial AQ in our community. Some of these groups include the Kane'ohe Bay Regional Council, the Kane'ohe Neighborhood Board, the Ko'olaupoko Hawaiian Civic Club, Ko'olau Foundation, Kahalu'u Neighborhood Board, Kailua Neighborhood Board, Waimanalo Neighborhood Board, as well as the Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs, which represent the voices of over 60 civic clubs with nearly 4,000 members across Hawaii pae aina.

Amending this bill to include Kane'ohe Bay is consistent with the collector's own representations to BLNR. Throughout the Oahu EIS processes, the Oahu collectors seeking permits represented that Kane'ohe Bay would be close to collection. Their own EIS says, and I quote, 'the preferred alternative under consideration prohibits aquarium collection in Kane'ohe Bay.'

There's no reason not to make that official through an amendment of this bill. Please pass this bill with amendments and stand with the thousands of residents in our community calling for a legislative ban on commercial AQ collection in our communities. Thank you.

Thank you. We're going to circle back to Klayton Kubo on Zoom.

Klayton Kubo from Waimea, Kauai. I just, like, ask you guys some stuff right now. They want to ban the AQ commercial, right? Then eventually they're gonna, like, ban the commercial fish, which I used to commercial fish myself, you know, used to bring in a lot of fish.

So in a sense, when are they gonna stop? The aquarium trade, they did what they needed to do, okay? They went to the court system. They got an approved EIS. It's like, why even this bill is being heard even? It just blows my mind. It's like, you guys get more time on some other stuff that you guys can be hearing.

Like, you guys know what-- that I've been going through over there for years to the State Capitol, but this, I am in strong opposition because I fear--and I'm going to say I fear--that eventually the sustainable fishes going to be banned also.

You guys need to really use your guys' brains right now and really think. The nonprofits, the NGOs, they're all getting paid. Nobody paying me to-- when I show up at the State Capitol. Nobody pays me. Even right now, nobody pays me. I don't even have no skin in this. But still my fear-- I wanna reiterate, my fear is eventually you guys gonna ban even one guy like me and my family. Please think about it. Mahalo nui loa.

Thank you. Members, that's everyone who indicated they would be joining us today. Also testimony in support from the 31 other organizations and about 160 individuals, as well as 23 other individuals in opposition and one individual providing comments. Is there anybody else in the room wishing to testify? Oh. Please. One at a time. Just please come forward. State your name for the record and your position.

Aloha, mai kakou. Chair, Vice Chair. Come over from the Big Island from Kona here to testify as a Kanaka Maoli from Kona having prior experience in aquarium fisheries trade. As an ex-collector and a very strong supporter of this bill, I'm gonna just get right to it, so I'll save you folks time.

I only have two things that I would like to make clear, which are facts. Coral gets broken. I watch coral get broken, okay? It's really hard, and I tell you guys right now, it's shame, because I broke coral when I was younger like this. Let's get-- hold your breath for five minutes.

You probably will be breaking coral instead of waiting for them to come out. Number two: where's the fish going? The fish are leaving the island. We sent them off. This is fact. This is not me thinking somebody paid me to tell you folks anything. We sent the fish off the island for a majority.

Everybody else was sending the fish off the island. And if those two things are not enough, how about the fact that, back in the late 90s, the Kanaka and local community members, specifically in Kona, Kailua-Kona, they were involved in a collection of aquarium fish, stopped on our own accord after witnessing and realizing negative impacts in a practice of this trade.

Some folks stop due to fear of peer pressure, but a lot of us, because we realize that it is not one of our core values of aloha aina. In closing, I urge the committee to choose kuleana over this cash.

It is a lot of money that's up there, but how much of it is here? You know, you don't see any of our keiki, like, jumping up and all of them waving, hey, we're gonna jump on the street so we can stay home. We do not see that. I appreciate you folks' time. I don't want to get into-- I see the high emotions and all, and I just please urge you to choose pono. Please pass this bill. Appreciate the opportunity to testify in front of you folks. Have a beautiful day. Aloha.

Thank you. Please come forward. Please just state your name and position for the record and then use-- thank you.

Hi. My name is Tanya Yamanaka Ayenessazian, and I'm here on behalf of HULI PAC. We're a grassroots Big Island-based political action committee. We stand on our written testimony just with a few comments. A lot of Big Island testimony has been submitted and heard this session and today.

Hawaii County Council passed a resolution earlier this year in January urging the State Legislature to ban commercial aquarium re-fishing statewide. To quote Dr. Holeka Inaba, Hawaii County Council Chair, 'HB 2101 reflects a necessary evolution in public policy. When we know better, we do better, or at least we try to do better.'

This is what we teach our children. It's our kuleana to our keiki and their keiki and to our ecosystem, to all the businesses that rely on a healthy ecosystem. We're experiencing this in West Hawaii today, so please pass this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else in the room, please come forward. Please just state your name and stance for the record and then proceed.

Aloha, mai kakou. My name is Charles Young. I live in Kealia in South Kono within the West Hawaii Regional Fishery Management Area. I wrote my first letter against-- in opposition to aquarium fish collecting basically for our community. I wrote it in 1998 and I've been in opposition since then.

I don't think my vocabulary is big enough to continue to add new information for you, so rather than read testimony from myself, I would prefer to read testimony from other people. This was written in 1953, 73 years ago, by the territory of Hawaii's Legislature-- territory of Hawaii.

Your communities have been-- your committee has been informed that a profitable industry for sale of marine aquarium fish could be established in Hawaii if provisions were made whereby such fish could be taken in a legal manner. We're asking you to reverse that.

Some of the ornamental fishes have little or no value as food fish, but will sell for as much as $25 a specimen on the mainland market. There are two key words in here that distinguish-- that make a distinguishment: ornamental and food. The commercial people are talking about lumping all that together.

The food fish served in Hawaii has a purpose. The fish that are collected do not. So I wanted to read another passage. This was in 1953. This passage is from Mary Titcomb's book, Native Use of Fish in Hawaii: Lau'ipala, yellowed ti leaf, lau'ipala or lau'kipala; description: length 3 to 7 inches, body much compressed, color a bright lemon yellow.

A beautiful fish. Cardinal spine strong, no scales, skin both delicate and rough, usually eaten broiled. Just because it's not a preferred fish does not mean it's not a food fish.

If you could summarize now?

Okay. Common about many reef fish, always noticeable in Kealakekua Bay. A throng of them is a beautiful sight. So I think the Legislature made a mistake in 1953. I think in 2026, we can fix that. Mahalo.

Thank you. Anybody else in the room wishing to testify?

Just state your name for the record.

My name is Mahesh Cleveland. I'm an attorney with Earth Justice and I'm here to reiterate our support for this Bill. I belong with one of the nonprofit groups that if to believe others would say that are all from foreign lands coming here to control Hawaii's resources.

But my great grandmother, Agnes Kaleo, known as Auntie Nahiku, was a fisherwoman herself on the island of Maui. And indeed, most of the people that have come over from Hawaii island today are all fisher folks who are here to try to protect the sustainability of our food nearshore fishery.

So, please do not conflate commercial aquarium collection with other types of commercial fishing. That is straight up fear mongering. We're here to protect our ability to collect fish for food. I also wanted to point out this is the Finance Committee, if you want to ask about the scientific sustainability of this fishery.

Mr. Wiggins is right here behind me and I'm sure he'd welcome your questions, but fiscally, this is an entirely unsustainable practice. You've heard folks talk about the seven permits that are on the table for Hawaii Island. I think someone else said there might be 10 legitimate aquarium fishers on Oahu. First of all, Oahu has no accepted EIS.

So, right now, there are seven permits on the table even possible. Each of those permits brings the state $100 per year. That's $700 of revenue to the state for a program that costs, depending on who you listen to, anywhere from $50,000 to $500,000 a year to administer.

And that doesn't even include enforcement, which I believe if you were to get...in here, I mean DOE Care, in here and ask them this trade is not enforceable. Even though the practice has been banned, these permits that are on the table right now have not been issued in over nine years.

There has been extensive poaching in west Hawaii. There has been no legal collection on Oahu since 2021. And that wasn't even under these permits. So, as the Finance Committee, I please ask you to think about what's in the best fiscal interest of our state.

Is it worth $700 to to subsidize to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars for a trade that, as you can see, most people of Hawaii do not want here anymore? Thank you for your time. Aloha.

Thank you.

Anybody else in the room? Anybody on zoom wishing to testify?

Okay, Members, questions on this measure? Rep. Perusso.

For Mr. Nielsen, please. DLNR. So, at the last hearing on this measure, you testified that DAR has never developed a definition of sustainable with regards to aquarium catch. And it's my understanding that for about 20 years, you had three to six fish surveys a year.

You're conducting three to six fish surveys a year, and now you're down to one a year. And my question is, you know, given that minimization or restriction of data analysis and data collection, how will you determine whether or not this, if, if this extractive practice is allowed to continue or be renewed, then how will you determine if a population is failing?

Yeah. Thank you, Representative. Brian Nielsen, Administrator for Division of Aquatic Resources. So, we do plan to continue our annual surveys in West Hawaii to watch the populations of the aquarium fish.

We did conduct a risk assessment looking at the aquarium fish populations and looking at the risk for population decline and also, the risk of impact to the reef ecosystem.

And we found the fishery to be very low risk when looking at the regulations that we're proposing in our rule package that's going through the Chapter 91 rulemaking process right now. So, yeah, we'll continue to monitor the population, but in terms of our risk analysis, we find that it's pretty low risk, considering only seven fishers would be permitted, almost half of the coastline would be close to collection.

Annual catch limits, only five species allowed to harvest. So, we feel like all these different regulations kind of will help us manage the population, so it doesn't become overfished or that the populations do decline.

Sorry, Chair, just to follow up, I don't really feel like you answered my question to be fair, because my question was how, with this greatly diminished data collection and analysis, how is it that you're going to make that determination, if you're only conducting one survey a year in West Hawaii?

Yeah, I don't think we have a greatly diminished survey design. I think we did look at our survey design and looked at power tests and also, looking at the full range of the coastline instead of just isolated areas, so, I wouldn't say that our survey effort is declining, but, yeah, we would watch those population estimates.

If we do see a dip in population of a certain species, the permits are renewed annually so we can modify the take levels, the species, that type of thing.

Thank you. Thank you. Chair.

Members, additional questions on this measure? Rep. Lee.

Roughly what is the population of yellow guy?

The population, let's see. I think it's around—our estimate for West Hawaii was around 3 million. Have to, have to look.

Minimum population estimate—3.9 million is what we estimated in our technical report for West Hawaii. I don't have that. I'd have to get back to you on that.

One more short follow up, just in your experience and maybe a more suitable question for someone else, what are the typical debts and how far off are these commercial fishermen?

The typical depth that they're—yeah, I'm sure some of the fishermen might be better at answering that question, but my understanding is something from like 3 to 100—30 to 100 foot depth, but it's scuba depth. So, you need scuba to be able to conduct collection fish. Yes.

Any additional questions, Members? Rep. Hartsfield and then Rep. Gedeon.

Thank you, Chair. The department's testimony notes that it's currently developing administrative rules to regulate the commercial aquarium fishery. I would like for you to explain to us and provide us more detail as to what mandatory, I'm sorry, as to how the Department plans on monitoring—well, let me just read your testimony.

These rules are designed to ensure that any authorized aquarium collection activity will be strictly regulated and monitored for compliance and sustainability. So, for that sentence, can you be more specific as to how the Department intends to do that?

Yeah. So, in terms of monitoring the fishery, we monitor the catch. So, we require that all commercial harvests submit a catch report within 24 hours of harvest. They're also required to fill out a catch report on the water before they, they reach the boat ramp.

We also require the dealers, so the folks that buy the fish from the fishermen to provide a report to the Department, so we can cross check the catch report and the dealer report. So, we'll look at catch over time. We also need to monitor that for the annual catch limits.

Each species has a limit associated, so we need to closely monitor that. So, if they're getting close to the annual catch limit, we have to shut down the catch for that particular species. And then, the diver surveys. So, we have dive surveys, biologists in the water counting fish at fixed transect sites and then also random sites.

And that's kind of what goes into our population assessment of what's out actually on the reef.

Thank you. Follow up question to that is how long does the Department believe this administrative role change development will take?

How long will it take? So, we plan to go to public hearing at the end of this month. So, we have public hearings scheduled for end of March and early April. We'll collect it, collect all that public testimony. We'll summarize it, we'll take it back to the Land Board.

I'm guessing that's going to be maybe early summer by the time we can, you know, summarize that testimony, take it back to the Land Board and then they'll make the determination of whether they accept our recommendation for the proposed rules, make any possible modifications.

If they accept the rules, then we go back to the Small Business Review Board and then it be up to the Governor to make the final approval.

Thank you. No further questions for this testimony.

Rep. Gedeon.

My question is actually for Mr. Williams. Two parts. In your written testimony under the fishery sustainability, specifically to the scientific sustainability recommendations. See they were never implemented. Could you expand on that?

Sure.

So, these are some of the papers that are cited in the written testimony. So, the last page of the testimony cites this paper, the title, sorry, this is a paper that was written by Dr. Ivor Williams, Dr. William Walsh, Jeremy Claes, Brian Tissot, and Costa Stamoulis in 2009, published in the journal Biological Conservation.

I'm just going to read from the paper. There are some relatively simple management actions which could improve long term fishery sustainability, including limited entry and restricting the take of breeding size yellow tang by aquarium collectors and other fishers.

However, there are several reasons why the fishery would be difficult to effectively manage by approaches such as bag limits or total allowable catch limits. First, available catch in any year is highly dependent on recent recruitment strength, which, for yellow tang, is highly variable from year to year.

As a result, optimum catch limits will vary substantially and unpredictably from one year to another. Second, aquarium catch and landings are highly dispersed, which makes it difficult or unfeasible to enforce catch quotas or bag limits and to verify catches.

Thank you.

My second question, and maybe this isn't your Kuleana, but the Oceanic Institute has successfully, from what I understand, been able to raise yellow tang, is that correct?

To my knowledge, that's correct.

Are there any other types of decorative fish, like reef fish, that they've been?

I believe they've been able to close the loop on the the flame angelfish. There may be others, but that's not my area of expertise.

No further questions.

Okay. Rep. Alcos.

Why this Bill specify only the yellow tang and the Kohli?

I don't, this—the Bill is for a statewide ban on commercial aquarium collection. It isn't specific to fish type.

So, it's all type of fish?

Yes.

So, it's not just a yellow, a yellow tang and a Kohli?

Correct. The ban for the Bill would be for any type of species. I think maybe your question goes to what are the species that are currently being collected of which yellow tang is one of the ones that has the most testimony and concern for community. But the ban is simply a regulatory ban.

She was like, you know, when I used to go diving back in the days, 30 years ago, and I used to see so much colors in the reef. The reef was live. Now the reef is dying. Less fish. But how are we protecting the fishes?

All the fishes, especially in, in Oahu? You know, I can see that the local families wants to go fishing. Local fishermens want to continue their business. How are we protecting the fish? Or your idea that saying that we're going to, is it that banding all aquarium fishing is your, your vision to this?

That is the position adopted by the board, that it would be the most protective of other uses as well as the resource to ban commercial collection of aquarium fish as a, as a specific fishery. Not all fisheries, just the commercial aquarium collection.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Rep. Kusch. And then Templo.

Thank you. Chad Wiggen, Mr. Wiggin. Tap your expertise real quick. Can you just briefly talk about maybe two of the prominent five fish that are currently on the board's decision administrative rule mix, like the yellow tang, obviously, because we're talking about it a bunch. And is Potter's angelfish on that list as well?

It was on a list at some point. Is it on the?

Okay, yeah. Okay. So, maybe talk about those two and their biology, like the fecundity. When can they start having egg laying and fertilization? Lifespans. Like, what's their window to have—to spawn? Excuse me, I'm not a biologist. And what's their kind of like, lifespan?

You talked a little bit about their recruitment, which is their spawning and their success rates. Can you just kind of develop that a little further?

Yeah. So, you know, one thing to know about.

I didn't get that. Could you try again?

Yeah, I can't hear anybody.

Well, how much time do we have to talk about fish? Because I think there's a couple of super important things to note. One is that when the science was actually designed for aquarium reef fish evaluation, transects were established between 30 and 60 ft deep.

So, that finger coral reef is the primary area that we focused on. The reason for that is because the finger coral is an area where baby fish land and they grow up. So, the big fish, especially for the yellow tang, are in the shallows periodically.

The science from Dr. Bill Walsh in 1987 says there is a strong seasonal influence there. Between May and August, they're going to get together in balls. They're going to do what's called spawning. They're going to make babies. The babies are going to go into the plankton and they're going to spend approximately 30 days in the plankton.

Old thought was, okay, they're in the plankton. They're going to go wherever the currents go. Most of them are never going to even make it back to the reef. That can happen. But larval fish can migrate vertically. And so, even though the surface current may be going one direction, the current under that might go the other direction.

And a lot of them, up to 80% in some cases, can find their way back to the reef where they respond. Even though they're very simple at that point. If they land on healthy coral habitat without a lot of pollution, they turn into almost transparent fish.

In the case of a yellow tang, slowly start feeding, slowly start to get their color coming into their bodies. And then, depending on where they land, how much food is available, what the water's like, it can take anywhere from 4 to 11 years for them to reach sexual maturity. Once they mature, you probably won't be surprised, I think for this species, females mature faster than males, which many of us with partners are familiar with.

So, anyway, they're going to move into the shallows where they can live for up to 41 years. And the fish in the shallows are making the babies. Now, the Potter's angelfish is a bit different.

Potter's angelfish is going to land on the reef and it's going to stay there. It's going to stay in that finger coral reef for its entire life. It's going to behave much differently when you approach it. When you approach a juvenile yellow tang, it may dart around when you exhale.

But if you hold your breath for a little bit, they're going to stay still. They can be more easily caught in the fishery. But the Potter's angel fish is going to dive into the reef and it's going to hide. So, try to point one out to your dive buddy. It's very difficult because they're inside the reef, by the time the other person can see.

They're very shy fish. And former collectors are the folks that I've gotten this information from, say they have to actually crack the reef to get that fish out, which some people say it can be caught without breaking the reef. There's no evidence of that.

I don't know of anybody who's seen that. But my experience talking to former collectors is the way they catch that fish is to deploy small barricade or barrier net, have two divers and coax the fish out of the reef.

Finger coral is becoming very, very brittle to the point where a fin kick or a small touch will cause it to fall. Once enough falls, it turns into rubble. Once it all turns into rubble, you have rubble fields, then you don't get recruitment of the fish back into the fishery.

And this is what happens in the open areas that are adjacent to the protected areas when the fishery is allowed to proceed.

Okay, thank you.

Okay. Rep. Templo, you had a question?

Thank you, Chair. DLNR, please. Thank you for being here today. Do you guys have a number for the value of commercial aquarium fisheries now?

Oh gosh. Like we've heard in the testimony, the fishery's been shut down for a number of years. That I don't have the value based on when it was shut down, but I could follow up with a, with a number for you.

Okay. And also, does DLNR have people checking when these reports are being done from the fishers and the dealers?