Senate Standing Committee on Education

All right, thank you. We're here for a Judiciary Committee decision making only agenda. We'll just go ahead and start at the top. First up is Senate Bill 2678. This establishes a working group within the judiciary to improve family court processes, including access to legal representation for youth in the child welfare system.

Recommendation here is to pass with some amendments. Clarify section 2C10 by specifying that the individuals have lived experience navigating the state child welfare system while minors.

Those will go on the working group and we'll revise section 2C6 to replace an actively serving G with a Guardian AD L item with a former G. And then we'll add flexibility for the co chairs to invite additional Members with needed expertise and provide compensation for lived experience. Members and the Committee report will suggest a $20,000.

Yes, $20,000 appropriation. Questions or concerns. The not vice chair for the vote's.

Recommendation on SB 2678 is to pass with amendments.[Roll Call] Measures adopted.

Okay, thank you. Next up, we have SB23. Do we have. Yes, that's right. And 2313 establishes a comprehensive system of public financing for all candidates seeking election to state and county public office. To begin with the 2028 General election. This is a Bill that we've passed out before and would like to keep it in play.

I think probably we don't have the money to do it this year, but I think it would be useful to keep around for another round anyway. So the recommendations to pass with Amendment will accept CSC's technical amendments.

On page four, line seven to eight, name of the program to read A comprehensive public funding program for consist blank out the appropriations and the positions. And in the Committee report, we'll recommend the appropriation amounts and staff positions that were in the original Bill and we'll make the Bill effective March 222075.

And Antiproviso that Section 2 and 3 regarding the statutory framework for the conference program shall be effective November 42075. The idea being that if we did it, it would be for 2028. Questions or concerns?

If not Senator Gabbard, there's recommendation on ST 2313 is to pass with amendments of the Members present. Are there any. No votes or reservations hearing none. The measures adopted.

Thank you. Next up is SB 2528. This increases the expenditure. And this is. I'm sorry. This is the partial public financing program proposed by the Campaign Spending Commission. This increases the expenditure limit and the amount of partial public finance campaign financing available for all elective offices. Our recommendation is to pass with some amendments.

We'll go ahead and increase the match of public funds in Section 4 to 4 1. So that means $4 for each. For every dollar raised, up the maximum. Up to the maximum amount of public funds.

And correspondingly, we'll increase the Maximum amount of public funds available in Section 3 20% for the offices listed in subsection A, which is Governor, lieutenant Governor, Honolulu mayor, Hawaii county mayor. And the current. The current ma. The current Max is 10%. And the CSC proposal in this Bill was 12.5. And then the.

The maximum amount would increase to 25% for the offices listed in subsection B, which is Senators, Reps. County Council, prosecuting attorney, Kauai mayor and Maui mayor. The current amount is 15%. And CS. CSC proposal was 18.75. So this is a little more generous.

We'll blank out the appropriation and in the Committee report we recommend an increased amount of 7.2 million to Fund the program. And we'll make it defect the date to March 22, 2075. Questions or concerns not Vice Chair.

Chair's recommendation on SB 2528 is to pass with amendments. Of the Members present. Are there any. No votes or reservations? Hearing none. The measures adopted.

Okay, thank you very much. That ends this agenda.

Okay.

Welcome everyone to the joint or 1015 agenda with the Judiciary Committee and our friends and colleagues from the Education Committee. We have one bill on the agenda today. SB Senate Bill 3123 just clarifies that free tuition at private educational institutions are to be considered conditional gifts that support education rather than contractual obligations.

And do you, do you have any opening statement you would like to make or. Okay. Okay. As noted, this hearing is being streamed streamed live on YouTube. You can find links to viewing options for all Senate hearings and meetings on the live and on demand video page of the Legislature's website.

In the unlikely event that we have to cancel or to recess the meeting for technical difficulties, we'll try again on Tuesday, February 17th at 10am in this room 116. And then public notice will be posted for those testify. Well, for everybody. There's a two minute time limit for those online.

Your audio will be muted and video disabled until it's your turn to testify. Okay. First up on SB21 3123 is Will Kane, senior Advisor, Office of the Governor. In support. Next is office Hawaiian Office of Hawaiian Affairs. Also in support, Diana Dahle. Dahle, Executive Director, Hawaii Association of Independent Schools. If you just.

If you'd like to testify, this is a time come on up. Yeah, please.

Aloha. Chairs, Members of the Committee, I really appreciate your time today. My name is Sienna Dahle. I'm the Executive Director of the Hawaii Association of Independent Schools. We represent roughly 100 schools here in Hawaii. This bill is fundamentally about protecting the spirit of the gift.

I'd like to include that it clarifies that donor funded scholarships, grants and tuition free educational programs are charitable educational gifts, not commercial contracts for families. This ensures that scholarships, pathways and access remain open for schools. It supports stability and continuity in financial aid programs.

When scholarships and tuition free pathways are secure, families have access to the best education for their keiki. So for those reasons, I encourage you to move this bill along. And we, as the Hawaii association of Independent Schools are in strong support of Senate Bill 3123. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next up is Kuhio Lewis or Madeline McKeague for Hawaiian County. Good morning.

Morning to the Chair, Vice Chairs and Members of our judiciary and education committees. My name is Madeline B. McCaig. On behalf of Kuhio Lewis, CEO of Hawaiian Council, we just wanted to stand on our written testimony and strong support and really emphasize that this is a clarification bill. As I read it.

We are making sure that the gift of education, education that has benefited so many keiki here in Hawaii is able to continue. This gift is making sure that we can reach community who needs it the most. And we stand in strong support. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Next up is Kanani Abad on behalf of Jack Wong for Kamehameha Citizen. Good morning.

Alohe na luna rhodes.

For the opportunity to testify. I'm Keha Wabad. I'm the Senior Vice. I'm the Vice President of Strategies and Experience for Kekula Okumahleho. I'm testifying on behalf of our CEO Jack Wong and our board of trustees. We submitted written testimony in support and in collaboration with the Hawaii association of Independent Schools, we're offering some amendments for your consideration.

I'm going to just take a few moments to share a few highlights of our testimony, if it's possible. First, we want to mahalo Governor Green for his leadership in introducing this bill. And we want to acknowledge and mahalo the circle of strong goals, organizations and individuals among whom we stand and support.

Senate Bill 3123 empowers schools and donors to define our relationships and interactions with our Hana and oHana in ways that are authentic and aligned with our values, who we are and who we always have been. For Kekula Okumahleho, this measure allows us to maintain our pilimna with Hana and ohana as our founder Akele Ipoahi had intended.

Our proposed amendments seek to provide greater clarity and to strengthen the bill. We've included a red line draft in our testimony for your convenience. And we worked on these again in collaboration with the HAIS leaders. We also provided a copy of these with the AMC's office.

The suggested amendments are primarily on page three of the Bill and they aim to achieve two objectives. First, we propose using the simple phrase conditional gift in place of donor conditioned educational awards. Conditional gift. The change clarifies that both school conditioned and donor condition.

Your time has expired. If you can hang around there probably there's likely to be questions. Thank you.

Next up is Terry George, CEO and President for Hawaii Community Foundation. In support, Rachel Wagon Wagonman, Director of Marketing for Hawaii Girls Hawaii Schools for Girls at Laitra also in support. Dr. Ruth Fletcher for St. Andrew Schools in support. Kane Cava Iola Lindsay for Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs.

Thank you very much.

In support. Malia Tsuchiya for Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks in support. K1O kakuhi for Kano and that's it. In support as well, Paul Turnbull, Turnbull for Mid Pacific Institute in support. Glenn Medeiros for St. Louis School and support. Brady Anato for Sacred Hearts Academy and support. Angela Young for CARES on Zoom.

Not present on Zoom Chair.

Okay. In support, Nancy Moser in support, Blaine R. In support, Rebecca Soon. In support, Benton Kang. In support, Kendrick Farm. In support, Christian Kua in support, Johnny May Perry. In support, Maa Hicks Goo in support. And if anybody's here and wants to testify, come on up. In support, Joseph Ui Hol in support, Jacob A.

In support, Anita May Na in support, Celestine Mokihana Maldonado in support. And Cedric Duarte in support. That's all. That's everyone who signed up for SB3123. Does anyone else wish to testify in SB3123? Members okay, Members, questions?

Yes, I guess OHA or Kamehameha schools. Who was last here? You had proposed amendments to remove the word I guess donor and just made it conditional gifts. And why is that? So the.

We wanted to clarify that there are two kinds of folks involved, right? There are the donor conditioned gifts and there are the school conditioned gifts. So this they may, they might in originating from different places. We want to make sure that both are covered by this bill.

So we just want to use a broader term rather than focusing only on one side.

And without the, without this bill, if folks are not able to accept condition gifts, I thought you folks are already able to do that.

What this bill does is to clarify donor intent and to provide clarity and stability in knowing as a donor how their gift would be handled.

There's some. Oh, it gives clarity to the donor is what you're saying, but you are able to do it now?

Yes, yes. But the, the, yeah. What this does is provide greater clarity about the nature of what happens once we have the donation and what and where we as a school, as a donor, want to direct it. Okay. The current laws provide some questions around what some implications are thereafter.

And this clarity around being able to say there are gifts provides that certainty to the donor. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Other questions, Members? Sure, sure.

Thank you. Let me preface this by saying my son graduated from Kamehameha. Scott, how is, how is this measure going to affect or change the way you select students, Hawaiian students to Kamehameha? It would not affect it in any way. Okay.

So then the concern that's been raised to me in the last couple days is that there's a lot of Hawaiian children that are not being served and there are many needy Hawaiian children that not being served, whereas there are a lot of those that are being served that are not Needy.

And so that's the question as to how does this legislation, because it is special interest legislation, how does this legislation support all of the Hawaiian children?

So while this legislation is not intended to address your specific concern, please know that Kamehameha has a very strong intent to focus on orphans and indigence. About 25% of our student body comes from those circumstances. In addition, you know, when we look at scholarships, we preference need, those are all need based scholarships.

There are very few that are merit based. In addition, we have about 60 some million dollars that we provide in grants to different organizations that provide support in early education after school intercession programs. Hawaiian focused charter schools, Kulakaya Puni summer schools. We have. So all of those are intended to. Right.

Provide supports to a wider array of Hawaiians.

I'm, I'm very familiar. How does, how do, how many Hawaiian students are you not serving?

We serve about 8% of Native Hawaiian students. So about, if you're looking at those in our, in our system, we service about 5,400 students a year.

92% of the Hawaiian students are not.

Being served directly through our preschools and our campuses. Many of them are receiving additional supports through those entities that I mentioned. So you know, for early education we're supporting.

Right, but you're not serving 90% and.

Well, indirectly through the supports that we provide. And I think if you know, our partners were, they would indicate that they are significant.

You folks stop giving scholarships to students to attend other schools. You used to do that, right?

The Ki Puna program is being redesigned and in fact this year, because we know we're a little bit delayed in our redesign, we are providing what we're calling a Hulili scholarship, which will in essence be very similar to the, the Kona scholarship.

So it kind of, we're doing one more cohort this year knowing that the redesign is taking a little longer than we had Hope.

Okay, and what about those students I graduated that paid all these years? Are they going to be retroactively reimbursed for those, you know, we shouldn't paid?

I'm, I'm such a graduate, of course, a lot, a lot longer ago than perhaps what you're talking about. But all of us, whether we were, you know, graduating in the 80s like myself or someone who graduated last year, or even the class that's going to graduate this year, about.

So 75% of our students receive some form of financial aid, either partial or full. So about, I think a good 25% receive full scholarship. That leaves about 25% of the remaining families that pay full tuition.

Those who are paying full tuition, and I want to make very clear, full with big quotes, that's only about 10 to 15% of actual costs.

That would be easy for you folks to then refund them for their pass if they're just 25%.

Well, we think it's a very important. Thing for all of us to consider what we're calling, what we think of as our Kahua of Kuleana.

That part of, part of, you know, my family was able to provide the tuition and it wouldn't, it would not, it would be the farthest thing from my parents minds to want to take back any of those dollars.

I received so much from Pauahi and the thought of trying to take even more is not something that my own family would ever consider.

Well, that's your family though. There's a lot of students out there who felt that they should have been allowed to go and free because that is the Pauahi Bishop's will. She wanted to take care of her Hawaiian children. She didn't say they supposed to pay tuition. So I'm just giving you the concerns that are being ra.

And let me just finish. This is the, I support the, the will of the princess. Okay. And I think it's her business. If she wanted to leave it to Hawaiian children, then certainly we should honor that.

But when you come in and ask for special legislation, special interest legislation, I have my responsibility and I don't speak for everyone here. I'm sure they have the similar responsibilities and feel that way, is that we do legislation for the majority of people. Yeah.

And when you have special legislation, we have to justify this legislation and the concerns that are being raised. I need to share that because it's the interest of the students and not necessarily the interest of the administrators that is administering the programs.

Again, only 25% of our student body pays that partial tuition. Those who are in need have been provided full or nearly full.

That's the problem. It's the middle class. It's the middle they don't qualify for to get full tuition and they're not rich enough to.

What we can do is maybe meet later and we can go through the details, but we have a very generous set of.

You have to meet with your constituents that you serve.

And we've just gone out in fact and done 19 different, what we called eulukoa sessions around the Paina. So we, we're very happy to go out and we, we just did that in the last few months. 19 different sessions across the Paina from Kau to Kekaha to Kohala to Kahului.

It, We've, we've, we're more than happy to meet with our people. And I do want to address your mention of special legislation. We agree with the Attorney General's opinion that this Bill is constitutional. And we see that from the testimony there's a wide array of schools for whom this Bill will be very beneficial.

They too want that solidity and that predictability and assurance that intent of donors are followed. So we don't believe this is special legislation at all. So I, I just want to clarify that.

Can I get some money from private schools? Thank you. Private schools.

Mr. Le. Yeah.

Hello. So can you just share with us what problem does the other private schools have that this bill is going to fix?

Yeah, so I think, you know, as, as, as we somewhat previously shared, this clarifies some of the donor intent issues that are raised. So I think what you were speaking, Audrey, Respect earlier is access.

Just answer the question that I asked you, please. Sure. How does this affect private, other private schools that don't have, you know, race as a, as a selection? Absolutely.

So this impacts all scholarships or charitable donations that would come in the form of potentially scholarships to any private school. So by and large you could easily say not just gifts from Kamehameha schools, but any foundation that awards gifts to schools that allow for greater access to honor that donor intent.

But what's their problem that you have now that you need this Bill?

I think that the clarification is around what a contractual obligation is. So from a donor's perspective, a contract is a two way giving. And I'm not a contractual lawyer or legal expert by any stretch of the imagination.

But what this allows is a donor can say, given certain conditions, we would like to provide this gift to whatever subset of students. So do you have to make it easier?

Do you have a problem, have you encountered any problem with this contractual law that's already there?

I mean, I think that's a great question for foundations, quite frankly. You know, we don't, we as an association don't administer the gifts directly. So it's hard to say, you know, at the individual school level or at a foundational level if they've encountered.

Okay, so is there any school here that can answer this question? Any private school, please.

Good morning. My name is David Gowdy, the head of St. Mark Lutheran School in Kaneohe. My answer to that would be that as a recipient of a lot of these scholarships, sometimes the Contractual language can be a hindrance to the facilitation of receiving these scholarships.

Understand, but have you had a problem?

Well, we've had a number of problems. You know, it's going to solve this. Would streamline it and make it a lot easier.

Okay, but the question is, have you had any problems that this. That need called for this Bill? Because nobody's brought this up before, I'm.

Saying, yes, it would solve the problem of spending weeks, months or more trying to negotiate language in a contract. So, yes, it would help us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Members, any other questions? Yes, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

I guess you as well as the Commandment School to come on up again. It. It seems to me to follow up with Senator Kim's line of questioning that this bill, if we pass it will bypass any contractual obligations you folks may have. So, for example, I don't think Khmer Miskals is going to do this.

If there was, like Benioff or some billionaire who's going to give Kamehameha schools $10 million, but with the condition that they accept non Hawaiian students, wouldn't this bill then allow you to accept that money but not follow through with the condition that you folks accept non Hawaiian students? I mean, same thing with the private schools.

If Benioff comes in, says, I want to give $10 million, but you have to accept students who are in families, are in Alice, families of under 150% living who are homeless, wouldn't this build then mean that you folks will be able to accept that money, but then allow you folks to be able to do with whatever you want to do with the monies?

Because then there won't be a contract.

Certainly the gifts could have conditions. Gifts have conditions, and that's part of the nature of gifts. So if Mr. Benioff would be so gracious as to provide that sort of a. A scholarship, an endowment, I mean, that we probably want to leave as an endowment to continue and let it be perpetual.

And if he wanted to condition that gift to say, let's make sure non Hawaiians are involved, then we would be more than happy to direct those funds to our many community partners.

We partner with about 150 different organizations across the paellina, and we would be very happy to find the best fit for what he's interested in among that, the rate of those partners, I guess.

Same question with the private schools. Yeah. I mean, because otherwise, why pass this bill if you are able to accept the monies already, right?

And I mean, I think it also. So on the One level, it's an organizational gift. So a gift that would go to, directly to a school, but it also impacts scholarships that go directly to students. So by alleviating a contractual obligation potentially between thinking of it of a student relationship to the donor. Right.

That there's certain conditions set for that student to, to be obligated to meet. So let's just say GPA enrollment, what have you. I think it makes it less of a, I need to give X, Y and Z back to you as the donor and just rather meet those conditions.

It, it, I think it allows donors to more freely be able to give their, their funds intentionally. Right. To those who might benefit and then in exchange students to receive, you know, the gift and, and, and have access to education. So I really do think expanding access right to the end recipient, which are cakey.

Again, I'm not a contractual expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I do believe that when we consider access and giving from any philanthropic donor, one of the barriers that I've come to understand is that if there's too much contractual obligation, that's a deterrent. So I do believe that it alleviates some of that concern.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, thanks. Other, Other questions. Okay, I do have. If you get both of you, you'd stay there. So I don't, I'm not sure that what Senator San Buenaventura per concern. I mean, I don't know how that would play out, but it does seem to me that if we.

Okay, so the question is if we pass this Bill, then any potential donor like that would know up front that there was this question as to whether or not you would have to follow the. So they just, they would have to calculate that into whether they wanted to make the donation or not.

And please also know that one of the amendments that we're suggesting is that. And you'll see it lines 12 and 13 on page three, you'll see that there's an opt out clause. So that if a school or a particular donor wanted to create an agreement that's contractual, that there's every opportunity for that as well.

So we don't want to preclude that. Hence the suggested amendment.

Oh, the suggested amendment would give notice.

No, the suggested amendment says unless the parties agree otherwise in writing. Okay. Yeah.

So leaving open the option for a contract, will you be open to an.

Amendment that actually says to the donor that, that they have. That unless they opt out, that you have the option of doing whatever they want, doing whatever you want with their money.

Whatever would make that. If there's greater clarity that's needed. If there's a greater clarity that's needed, by all means, of course, I think we, we'd all want that clarification that that's what we're seeking in the Bill as a whole to make things very clear that to all that they're doubt. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

All right, Members, other questions.

Y S K so if this legislation pass, does that mean that you don't have to go to court or there is no lawsuit or what. What. What does that mean?

Yeah, that's what it is.

Clear legal definitions. Sustain and promote generosity. Okay. Honor, donor intention.

Can you not read it? Can you just tell us in your own words what, what this means?

Yep, that's what it is. No, as with all of the schools that have testified, as with any of the organizations that support scholarships, we all are facing the situation where if a donor wanted to provide.

Okay, the question is about the lawsuit. So if this thing passes, what does that mean?

Legally they would provide greater clarity that.

No, but it'll. Your problem go away? I mean, will the problem go away?

It's not that simple right there, that I think that would, you know, I'm not an attorney. I, I'm sure it's not that simple. But clarifying the difference between a gift and a contract and that what Pauahi intended was a gift, that is a fundamental, fundamentally important to us being able to express who we are as Kamehameha. Okay.

When we. Please, please consider the fact that in a court system, in a Western world, they see the spectrum of donors. Understand?

I just want to know what this means.

Donors are seen in just two boxes, right? There's either contracts or there's gifts. And those are the options in the court system.

Okay, so we're just trying to go away though. Does the problem go away?

It does not just go away. There's, there's, there's still case. Fa. Case is still before us and everything would need to flow so that if.

You lose the cases and so forth, forth, or whatever happens, are you going to continue giving all the students a free tuition forever and ever?

We have no intent of changing that. We've committed to that. In as much as we have a board of trustees, and we cannot speak for a board of trustees 30 years from now, but our board right now is absolutely committed to this as a long standing policy. That is the intent.

Okay. I just want to make sure that, you know, as this legislation go forward, what, what the. What there might be unintended consequences and trying to anticipate that. So thank you.

Other questions, Members. Okay. If not, thank you very much for being here. Did you want to break from decision making to everybody? Apparently, yeah. All right. So I don't know if that's what the recommendation for the from the two committees is. It's passive amendments. We'll go ahead and track the amendment suggested by Kamehameha Schools.

That will include that and that will be add school condition enrollment in any. Any private school to donor conditioned educational grant is creating a conditional gift and not a contract and will allow this default rule to be overridden with a written agreement, which is what we had talked about before. Unless the parties agree otherwise in writing.

That's the specific language. And then we'll make some conforming amendments throughout the bill to effectuate those changes. Questions or concerns?

If not for JDC on SB3123 the Chair's recommendations to pass with amendments. [Roll Call] The measures adopted.

Committee on Education, same recommendation. Vice Chair for the vote. Vote sheet. Okay. Chair votes. Reservations on this measure.

Okay, so Vice Chair. Chair votes with reservations.

[Roll Call]

Okay. All right.

Thank you very much. The measure passes out of the joint Committee. Mahalo.