Senate Standing Committee on Economic Development and Tourism

Hello, welcome to the Committee on Economic Development and tourism on this April 1, not a fool day. Tuesday at 1pm in Conference Room 229. This hearing is being streamed live on YouTube. If there's any kind of technical disruption, we will post public notice as to when we are going to reconvene.

Since this is one of the fun times in being the Legislature, where we have volunteers that are willing to share their skills and knowledge with the public, format is going to be a little bit different.

What I'm going to do is going to read off as each GM nominee comes up, read who the supporters are, and then have the nominee come up and ask the nominee to share a little bit about their background and secondly, what they plan to share and what skills they bring to either the Stadium Authority or Hawaii Tourism Authority.

So that's how we're going to march through today's confirmation process. First in our GM's list is GM510. This is for confirmation to the board of directors of the Hawaii Tourism Authority Gubernatorial nominee Todd Apo. And for testifiers, we have Caroline Anderson from HTA.

Good afternoon. HTA stands in strong support of Todd Apo as part of our board Member. Thank you.

Thank you, Caroline. Jimmy Tokioka.

Hi, good afternoon. Jimmy Tokioka, DB and standing in strong support of Todd, just real briefly. Since he's been on the board, he's exhibited the skills of a good leader, of a great leader, actually, you know, trying to find the balance with the difficult issues that we deal with. He's proven that on many Board Meetings that he's attended.

And it's a pleasure to see this type of management style, especially in the atmosphere of what's been going on at HTA. So thank you for this opportunity to testify and I'll be here for any questions if you have it.

Thank you, Jimmy. Evan Owe from NIOP has submitted testimony and support. Kekoa McClellan might be joining us via Zoom, IT?

not present on Zoom.

Okay. Members, I see submitted testimony support. Jacob Offkee in support. Micah Connie in support. Stephanie Donahoe in support. Jeff Wagner in support. Matthew Karras in support. Mufi Hanneman in support.

Scott Higashi, Randall John Francisco, John Kittinger, Ann Botticelli, Charmaine Doran, all in support. In addition, we have Sam Moku, Jeremy Shorenstein, Sterling Higa, Stephen Teves, Stephanie Iona, Nikki Medwitz, Denise Yamaguchi, Cynthia Ramirez, AG Hallegao and Calvin Mann, all individuals in support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify in, for GM510?

If not, Mr. Apo, we could have you come forward, perhaps share with us a little bit about your background and what you would like to do if confirmed for the Hawaii Terms of Authority Board.

Thank you. Aloha Vice Chair, Committee Members, happy to be in front of you.

So, Todd Apo, from a background standpoint, at least from a professional career standpoint, attorney by trade, and bring in some of those skills of just having the legal eye on things as I've gone through things, but have then since left legal practice and been involved in the visitor industry, both from a development standpoint out in Ko' Olina in West Oahu with hotel operations being a part of Aulani Disney Resort as they opened up.

And you know, as a team, we hired 1200 new employees that got to see sort of the true impact and economic impact that the new resort can bring. Have since then also involved in development in Kakaako with Ward Village.

I've been with, was with Hawaii Community foundation for three and a half years and now running a nonprofit on the Big island that's connected with Hawaii Community foundation of lands that were donated to the foundation. And we're working on climate resilience work.

And so bringing that experience into here, I've been able to see both what needs to happen from a development side because, you know, I've spent six years on the City Council as well.

Didn't mean to skip over that as I was going through the list, but that background obviously helps me navigate, I think, through not just HTA as an organization, its connectivity with the state and the Legislature and the governor's office, but also in working with a board that you have to be a part of.

You know, we used to sit on the council and you all experience this. You don't get to choose who sits next to you, but you really got to work hard to make who you're sitting with work for the reason that we're here. And so I bring that into HTA.

The last thing I says, having been able to be employed by two publicly traded companies and being because of Hawaii, the Hawaii projects, being able to be connected with their leadership, all the way up to the corporate CEOs and seeing how corporate structure can work, how their boards work relative to the projects that come under them, I hope to bring some of that perspective and knowledge into what we do at HTA.

Realizing that I think we need to define what HTA is and what our role is and how we work with our contractors. We all understand that the bulk of our funds get put out through contracts to get the work done, but HTA needs to play the role of being on top of those contracts and contractors.

As I look at the split that happened in regards to destination management and the branding marketing, that's at its infancy stage, we as a board and as an organization need to help guide how that relationship between those two main contractors mature. I think that's very important for the future of the visitor industry.

And so again, looking at those, recognizing that it hasn't been a smooth road in the past, that we need to get it to be a smooth road, I appreciate the chance to step in and be a part of the board.

Very much appreciative that the board decided and allows me to sit in this chair right now and help lead through this time of transition as we go through it. And I hope that my background can help bring some stability and smooth roadness to that as a collective forward. I'll stop there. So thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Apo. Members, questions. Senator Fukunaga?

You know, when we had a chance to meet earlier, you talked a little bit about your experience in working for two publicly traded companies.

And I think that was really kind of very illuminating in terms of how you see some of the experiences there, you know, as contrasting with a lot of what HTA and the State of Hawaii has done with respect to marketing.

Can you elaborate a little bit on, you know, how you see some of what you learned through those experiences, giving us perhaps a wider breadth of experience that we can capitalize on?

Certainly. And probably the example that jumps to mind is having been able to work with Disney on the Aulani resort, I was more on the corporate side and got to work with the marketing and branding team. To me, I think most of us agree Disney's probably one of the best companies at branding.

It has created a brand for its, all of its products across the parks and media and movies that go with it.

And so being able to be a part of that team and have discussions around and watch how they made decisions of how they were marketing, both for getting people to come to Aulani, getting people to go to the parks, but also maintaining that brand image so that the brand of Disney is always in people's minds when they're thinking about whatever it may be, turning on the TV, right?

I mean, everything you get to experience. I think I'm starting to try to see that, how that fits with HTA and I don't know, I mean, I'm five months into being in the position, right. So trying to understand how to help into those discussions.

But I think that's a really, that background is a firm example of how I've seen a company who I think is one of the top companies for doing branding and marketing and try to bring some of those ideas into what we do at HTA. Again, working with our contractors in order to do that.

And that's where, you know, when you take the destination management side, it's for me, in that example, it's like taking the parks. It's one piece of what we do, but it needs to fit within an overall marketing and branding and those pieces need to find time to mature, to work together.

That Disney as a corporation has had the time to do that over 50 plus years. We need to get into that as well.

Do you think the current experience, you know, having a number of organizations that are really focusing on regenerative tourism and developing more of a strategic orientation towards culture, heritage, et cetera, makes this an ideal time to develop that branding approach much more rapidly?

Oh, absolutely. You know this and I'll pull on my experience with White Community foundation on this is finding, figuring out how to engage community and get community voice involved in the, the process of making decisions. And that's a distinction that I've seen is it's, it's not... Community is not going to make the decision.

Community needs to be involved and engaged and the voices of the community, the spectrum of voices in the community need to be taken in here by HTA and decisions need to be made based on those voices. And so I...

With everything going on within our communities these days, everything from pre pandemic through pandemic into today, and the continued, I'll call it, disruptions that we see, whether it's wildfire, whether it's what's happening with the Federal Government, all that needs to be factored.

It's a great time to engage those community voices and really figure out how destination management, how community, how culture gets ingrained and benefits from this industry that leads our state.

Well, it sounds like a daunting task, but certainly you have a pretty broad spectrum of organizations that we now have at the table. So I think it's going to be a positive opportunity to really build on what we have so far.

Agreed. And we need to be positioned and lead. Taking advantage of that.

Thank you.

Sure. Why not? So Todd, I mean, I recall going back when I was on the City Council and you were representing Ko' Olina. Certainly watch your path through the City Council up until now.

And the Director of DBEDT mentioned how you've been able, in the short time that you've been sitting on HTA, you were able to deal with difficult issues. Can you Share with us what those difficult issues are.

I mean, one, to be honest, has been board dynamics and pulling on experience. I'll pull on my basketball refereeing experience. I mean, and it's funny, but I- somewhat funny, but I take a lot of the things I do on the court and bring it into my professional career.

And the example is you're dealing with a lot of different opinions. You're dealing with the different personalities.

You've got to take that in, make a decision that you realize some people aren't going to be happy with, but you also need to be able to get to that decision and communicate that decision in a way that even those that disagree can say, okay, let's move on with this.

And I think that's one of the difficult things that as I've sat on, I think, five Board Meetings now, to do, and I've tried to listen first to make sure I could understand the different perspectives where they're coming from, different board Members, staff, our contractors that are presenting to us and try to analyze and get to a point that I think is the right direction, but one that we can agree on as a board.

And it's not been easy, right? I mean, because it's not just the subject matter, but it's the perspectives and the personalities behind that. And so I think.

How about the conflicts? I mean, as a referee, you can blow the whistle, and I mean, there's no challenge the call by having a replay. So, you know, the referee is a final word. But in hta, you know, that's not true because you said it's important to take into consideration.

And yet in that instance, it's still, you know, there's a lot of conflicts. And part of that is the composition of the board and the Members that we confirm come to come to the board with conflicts. I mean, you can't get around that. Right?

And that's why, you know, when I first came in the Senate and chaired the Tourism Committee, we tried to balance the board with not just industry people, but people, you know, in the community, so we could have a balanced voice. But the industry tends to have a stronger voice.

And I'm not saying that's good or bad, but there tends to be conflicts. And so how do you guys deal with that?

And I'll separate, and this is a bit of wordsmithing, but conflict from a disagreement as to how to move forward. Some of the conflict is based on background and personality versus really, I think, substantive work and disagreeing on how to move forward.

And I think we faced, I've seen us face both of those as I've sat in Board Meetings over the last five months. There's never a perfect answer. We're not going to solve it. Having a difference of opinion on how to move forward is valuable to the discussion. Having conflict, whether between individuals, between personalities, whatever it may be.

How about conflicts between the jobs that the board Members hold? But they come to HTA supposedly to represent the state and the industry as a whole.

And yet there are conflicts of the job, the companies that they work for or the industry they work for, then they tend to take that position and not, not the General position, which is what we try to get to when we confirm you folks that, you know, you got to take your hat off.

And if you're not able to do that, and we see that going on right now, and I've seen it over the years, different, different appointees get on the board and start to use the board and decisions to further the best interests of who they represent outside of the hta.

And I think that conflict will always exist. And part of this because we need those voices right of where these, whoever, wherever these individuals come from.

Right, but the voting as far as.

But that's by having 12 of us and the job that you all have done and the Governor has done to make sure there's balance across that, is what's important. I mean, one of the hardest conflicts I'll say is my director here. He has two hats that are very difficult sometimes to separate.

I think he has done a great job of doing that, but it's a necessary part of what HTA is, given that it's now a part of DBEDT. I don't think HTA could do as well on a going forward basis, on a regular basis if we didn't have that input from DBEDT.

But it's a very tough conflict for internal conflict for himself to not only talk about it, and I think he does a good job of saying, hey, I'm saying this because as Director, here's what the governor's instructions are. I'm saying this something differently because I'm on HTA and I think this is for the betterment of brand marketing.

We all do that to different levels. Obviously those in the industry have, have a higher responsibility to recognize that they wear multiple hats, make sure they're voicing, they need to voice pieces from their work, I'll call it their work hat because that's important to the discussion.

But do their best to separate that a bit and put on their board Member hat where we owe the fiduciary duty, sitting as board Members to vote and make those decisions.

What about the board Members and their, and their interaction, or shall I say control over the staff of HTA?

So I'll throw out my lawyer hat side of this. From a governance standpoint, and having served on a number of nonprofit boards, I'm a very strong believer in that line of separation between board and staff. And the board's job is to one, select and have and hire the CEO.

And all of the board's work should really be through that CEO as opposed to through staff.

Now, again, just so we all have it, it's another tough distinction I think Director has because all of HTA staff is technically under his Department, and so he has a different set of responsibilities and he needs to make sure he recognizes the hats when he's talking to staff.

But what's, I think what's made that tough probably over the last 18 months is the fact there has not been a permanent CEO in the seat. And I think when that happens, it's the board needs to step in and do some work with staff because of that.

I think another background skill I bring to this is having been on the board as the Vice Chair of the board for Bishop Museum.

As we went through our turmoil a few years ago, and during that time when we were without a sitting CEO, I, as a board Member, got much more involved with staff leadership in order to keep things going during that period.

And so in the ideal world, when we have a permanent CEO, I think we can get to a better separation and make sure there's a clear line of what the board's role is relative to the authority work. And we, but we need to, during this period, figure that out a little more.

It's a little bit grayer in certain areas until we can get that leadership set.

What's that. What's troubling for me, having watched HTA evolve to a good position and then dissolve, basically where we're at today, that we have, I mean, the fact that we don't have a CEO rests with the board. You know, this is like what comes first, the chicken or the egg.

And, and I know I've been saying, when is the board going to select a new CEO? And yet the board has continued to thrive under a temporary CEO, interim CEO. And again, I, you know, there didn't seem to be the urgency to put in a leader.

And so many things have evolved during this time and we've seen it in the headlines of the newspapers. And so, you know, that's very troubling.

I understand if I can respond to that because... And I can't speak to what's happened before 5 months ago when I came on the board. But we have had specific conversations about filling the CEO position since that it's not been a board choice not to move forward with the the process to find a CEO.

One of the complications that came up, and it goes back to because HTA is now under and a part of DBEDT is getting the necessary approvals and understanding in regards to compensation package for that CEO position. Until that is settled, we can't go out and announce here's the position, here's the compensation package.

So there is a Bill that the Senate has passed, it's sitting in the House now, hopefully moving through the House that sets the compensation package for the CEO position with the understanding that the CEO position will be tied, the dollar compensation will be tied to lieutenant governor's salary.

But until that Bill gets passed, we can't put out, here's what the compensation, overall compensation package is for the CEO.

My hope, my goal is that assuming we can keep that legislation moving through and get the Governor to sign it, that we as HTA as an authority are ready to repost our announcement for CEO process, selection process with that set compensation package and get into that process this year.

Okay. Well, prior to the Bill, when HTA, the CEO left, I mean they could have gone in some without a package. They didn't have a package to begin with of the salary. And I know eventually because of the concern as to how much that's going to be, then I think the Governor got involved, we got a Bill.

I mean things got very much muddied along the way because I think of the lack of action.

And I can't disagree with that because I don't know, I mean that again, that was. I haven't gone back to see why we got to the point we were at when..

I think that's something as a board Member, as a chair, you need to, you need to understand where you come from as you're going forward and what mistakes not to make.

Agreed. But I'm also going to first focus on how we're ready to move forward and but to your point, we need to make sure we don't make the same mistakes.

I appreciate the that the Governor has been communicative with us so that we understand what the parameters are in order for us as a board and the authority to move forward.

Because as you know, legislation can change from year to year. Right.

Understood.

Thank you.

Any further questions? Senator Awa?

Yeah, Much later. Always. I like it. Last time I voted no to one of the nominees, Jimmy came in and we talked about Hawaiian sense of place versus Hawaii sense of place. It was in one of those bills in regards to the convention center and what it has to embody.

I want to hear from you, schools grad, do you agree with changing that? And it's no longer there. The Bill has evolved since, but that really stuck with me anytime we take Hawaiian out of something. Want to hear your thoughts of the branding.

I'd obviously love and have a priority towards a Hawaiian sense of place in everything we do. I recognize, though, that we are, and this is a debate I've had internally with some of the staff and some of our legislative pig as we've worked through this. We're the Hawaii Convention center.

And if it says Hawaii, that doesn't mean that we cannot be focused on Hawaiian elements that need to be there. It doesn't prohibit us. Right. It's a broader definition that we could fit within.

And so if that had changed to, say, Hawaii sense of place, then I think what our job would be, from the authority, from the board to the staff, is to define how we are going to implement that, to ensure that the Hawaiian sense of place remains prioritized and evident and existent to everyone who comes in.

But also we would then have the flexibility to recognize the other cultures and the other parts of our community in Hawaii that make up who we are for convention comers, visitors that come to the convention center.

So I did not see that change as being fatal, but I recognize that if that change was made, we would have a greater responsibility to ensure that what I think why the original language is there with the Hawaiian sense of place is properly kept in what we did at the convention center.

Okay, I appreciate you prioritizing it, but it obviously would matter who's there. Right. And so that would be my concern. That's why I want to see the mentality when it comes to branding, especially when you're talking about that earlier. One of the examples that were given was that cultural protocol was done in Chinese. And it sounded good.

Your take on that. One of the examples that was given to me about, hey, we have to be inclusive of all cultures was that the traditional Hawaiian protocol in Hawaiian was switched one day. I don't know what it was, but. But to giving protocol in Chinese.

And my take on that, which, which I told the Director was, hey, this is our homeland. We can go to China if we want to hear protocol in China and Japan. And all that. There is a difference of opinion. I want to hear your opinion.

So on that, I would say I would be against if, if it said Hawaii and we're in this discussion about how we deal with that language, I would be against replacing Hawaiian protocol with any other cultural protocol. I think we all recognize that. I'll say it Hawaii and Hawaiian comes first.

And it's in statute in regards to our it being an official language. I mean, there's a number of places where that's the case. If we had Hawaiian protocol, but also added to that some other cultural aspect at various times to celebrate other cultures, I'd be okay with that.

So again, it's not to the exclusion of others, but I would not want us to lose the prioritization of Hawaiian. But I agree with your point. It depends on who's there. Right? And we sit at a unique time where our two main contractors are led by native Hawaiians.

And right now the chair of the board is native Hawaiian. We need to figure out how we make sure we institutionalize that and whether to the point, legislation can change year to year to make sure that is taken care of if we aren't seeing the results as organizations and leadership change. Thanks. Appreciate it.

Any further questions? I have a couple of talk. First of all, congratulations on your nomination and last week being elected chair of the HTA board, you inherit an agency that I have to say is troubled both on the board side as well as on the staff side.

And to Senator Awa's questions, I mean, I think we all can appreciate the value of Kuleana Malama and the campaigns there, but how does HTA measure the success of all of your programs and campaigns? How do you really gauge that the Malama is getting across to the visitor that Kuleana is being absorbed by, by the visitor?

How are you going to measure success?

I'll tell you, it's difficult. And I go, I go back to having done some marketing and branding work with everyone from Disney through Ward Village and sales and the cultural image that Ward was trying to set.

It's not the type of KPIs that you can do when you're doing just straightforward marketing of getting heads in beds, getting sales done, getting people to visit the park or the hotel. So to me, there's no exact science around. How do you measure the success of what I'll call the branding side, getting Malama into people's minds?

It's somewhere. It's a place where we need to one, use technology. And I thank you for coming down to the second half of our meeting last week.

But to talk about, as we're going through this transition of the the AG form that we fill out on the planes and the add on looking forward to add on the questionnaire side of that. How are we asking the right questions in order to gauge that?

Because I think the next step, if we can get that form electronic on the planes and we talk about, right, because they're captured audience when they're on the plane. Well, they're also captured audience when they're leaving. Right. So we need to be doing that inquiry, that polling with them as they're leaving.

I think those are the types of places I think with how technology works, the ability to fence messaging, the ability to identify not by an individual person but generally where people are moving around our islands is all data that we need to put together to understand. I think that's how we can find the measurements to understand.

Are they getting to the point that, these are places you're not supposed to go right, from the carrying the Malama from the Kuleana of the responsibility of a visitor.

That data will help us understand that we're not obviously, we don't have any of that yet, but it's some of the things I'd like to start us talking about in order to get to measurements.

Exactly what you said because right now at least I don't know that we are able to measure that aside from probably more anecdotal type of information that we may get and the staff and the data may tell me I just don't know it yet and it's there but I'm just not aware of it.

Yeah, no, it's an interesting idea to do exit surveys rather than them coming here. I like that idea.

I'm looking at Daniel Nahoopili's resignation letter and he has, he points out some very troublesome aspects about what's going on there at HTA and he says here, "it is deeply troubling that instead of empowering HTA's leadership to drive meaningful change, political maneuvering and external influences have created an environment of uncertainty, hesitation and at times outright hostile hostility."

Is that an accurate description of the, what's going on there at the Tourism Authority?

Unfortunately my main answer is I don't know. I'm going to claim still relatively new guy, have not spent a lot of time with the staff.

One thing that I got set up this week is to sit down individually with the three of our HTA leadership team individually to sit down with them and start understanding a bit more of what was there to make sure I understand enough of the past that we learned from it and forgot to move forward.

Anecdotally, I have heard that he was under a lot of pressure that there were; he was getting pushed different directions. He was having to deal; as much as I talked about the complications for Director of having those two hats, for Daniel to have to be under DBEDT, but also under the board, I think created some complications.

How those were manifesting to him through either individual board Members or external forces, I don't know. I have not had those conversations with him. I don't. But I'll... Sorry, I'll finally say I certainly see that the potential that those statements are; there was a level of reality to those statements.

Even before Daniel took on the role of acting CEO. I mean, there was a, I recall a year ago, there was a governance report that was pretty scathing to just the the staff's interaction with the Executive team there. If I recall correctly, they used examples of cruel and inhumane as how they described the work environment.

I mean, cruel and inhumane, those are words you would think about in a sweatshop in Bangladesh, not in the tourism marketing arm for the State of Hawaii.

How, if confirmed and to the board, are you going to address the troublesome issues that are going on between, I guess the line staff and then their executives that oversee their performance?

So one, yes, I've looked through the governance report. It's long and so I can't tell you that I've gotten deep into all that. I believe the terms you used were by an individual as opposed to a summary of what anyone believed was the situation at the authority. That said, how are we going to deal with that?

I think 1. is identifying the new leader and make and 1 is going to be in an interim period until we get a new CEO selected and then 2 into the CEO. The CEO, whether interim or permanent, needs to drive the culture of the organization.

But it also goes to the governance side that the board needs to work through the CEO through that leader and not be involved in that staff level. I don't, I don't know enough about those dynamics between leadership team and staff. And was that because of leaders who are no longer there, leaders who are still there?

My first step is from a board chair standpoint, is to sit down with leadership and understand that first. I am also going to the staff meeting this week to address the staff and let them know that I'm not going to get involved in their work as a board chair side. I'm open to hearing from them and if I've got to just see how that evolves I understand that there has been an issue and probably still is an issue.

I will do my best to assure them from a board standpoint how at least, I'm looking at moving forward because haven't had the time to go through sort of the brainstorming thoughts I've had about HTA from a board side over the weekend with the entire board.

But I understand that those are there from the governance report and we need to make sure, we as board and leadership, are addressing those.

Members. Any further questions, Senator Kim.

So if in fact we, you end up with a weak leader or you have a weak interim leader, how do you deal with that? I mean because again, you don't want to micromanage, but at the same time, if you see there's a vacuum there which there was obviously, then what do you do?

I mean what are you doing with that?

Yeah, I think...

So first, you hope you don't get into that situation by the board making the right selection but to the extent you see whether it's a weak leader or gaps in whoever is sitting in that position at any time that's the board and to me the board chair's job and as I mentioned when we went through the Bishop Museum situation and our CEO was put on administrative leave, our board chair was traveling and so I as first Vice Chair, was the one who spent a lot of time with who became the sort of the...

The leadership team that was, because, we didn't put in that interim CEO. So, so I've seen that model and and I think it worked bottom line it so it supports job.

Right. So are you going to be able to make that kind of decision if it needs be. I mean I've known you, you're a nice guy.

You know and some of these tough decisions have to be made, and, or the board has to man up if they make a mistake and and put in somebody that is weak or notice that whoever was there is is really not living up to that instead of staying with that individual and then ending up to...

To the situation we're in now.

Yeah. And appreciate being recognized as a nice guy but I'll go back to my referee and you can find some coaches who don't find me nice guy, but I've had to make tough calls and so it's not a non practice for me, and so whether it was the decision, and I was the one that had to have the discussion with our museum CEO, that we were putting her on administrative leave.

Not easy willing to do it.

Good. I just want to make sure.

Appreciate the question in this, for this setting. Yes.

Any further questions? Thank you, Mr. Apo.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We'll move on to GM2. Excuse me. 602. This is submitted for consideration to the board of directors of the Hawaii Tourism Authority. Gubernatorial nominee Roy Fun. On his fan list we have Caroline Anderson.

Aloha Vice Chair Members of the Committee's Hawaii Tourism Authority stands on our written testimony and support strong support of Rory Fund being part of the HTA board. Thank you. Thank you, Caroline.

Jimmy Tokioka.

Thank you Members. Once again, Jimmy Tokioka DBEDT standing in strong support of our testimony. And you know, Member Pfund has been on there for a little longer than Member Apo and I've enjoyed the time that we've worked together.

But I think now the direction with that the newly elected Chair is going to be a pivotal time and I think he will be in the right place at the right time to help move the organization forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Jim. Antoinette Davis from Activities Attractions Association might be joining us via Zoom.

She's not present on Zoom.

Okay, thank you. And we have a number of individuals all in support.

Ron Williams, Tatiana Von Ollenhofen, Joshua Uehara, Mufi Hanneman, Alfred Grace, Randall John Francisco, Stephanie Iona, Robert Harrison, Vance Rowley, Don Takaki, Jerry Agrussa, Robert Fujioka, Freda Takaki. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on this nominee? If not Mr.

Pfund, if you could step forward, perhaps share a little bit about your background and why you would like to serve on the HTA board.

Thank you. Vice Chair Wakai, Members of the Committee. My basic background is I've been involved in the tour, transportation, entertainment business now for about 40 years, primarily with Robert Sawai and the current President, CEO of Robert Sawai and a board Member. The company now is 100% employee owned, so it's an ESOP company.

We have about 14-1500 active employees with about 3000 plus overall ESOP Members. And our reach is statewide. So we cover all of the various communities within the state. And that's why to me, my ability really stems from a lot of my work experience and, and the fact that we do have employee owners spread throughout the state.

And it's very important at least for me to make sure that they all can appreciate the company, the business we're involved in, and especially on the tourism side, you know, be proud of the jobs that they have within the industry. So I can just stop there and I'll be open for questions.

Okay. Members, any questions for Mr. Pfund?

No.

You want to go ahead? No, go ahead.

Aloha. Mr. You heard the our questions to Todd a poll. And so having served on HTA prior to Todd getting on the board, I mean, did you notice there were some issues going on with HTA and the leadership and so forth and the conflicts that were going on?

Well, I think from a standpoint of like my experience with boards has been more of, you know, board Members being on an oversight and not so much involved in the, you know, that maybe the details of the operations or the management and the way the board is set up, you know, there's the overall board and we do have different committees on the board that does administrative Audit Committee, a branding Committee, Okahua Committee, which does more, the destination side, and then a Budget Committee.

So these committees do, you know, break out and meet more on a detailed level and bring recommendations back to the full board. So there is a greater aspect of more direct involvement within the actual, you know, operations of the organization.

So, so on one level, you know, there's that much more, I would say, detailed involvement in some of the basic operations of the entity.

And then on the overall, there is, you know, again, I think, as Todd Apollo pointed out, you know, there are a variety of different, I would say, backgrounds and responsibilities of the various board Members. It's a 12 Member board and then within those 12 individuals, you know, everybody has the different backgrounds, the different thoughts.

So there is some inherent, you know, I would say conflicts or, you know, disagreements. But, you know, my approach would be, you know, understanding that and working through the various differences and trying to come up with consensus opinions.

Well, you heard what chair just read regarding Daniel's statement on some of the issues, not necessarily just the conflicts among board Members, but just the overall tenor of the whole HTA and what's been going on.

And so, you know, what I'm trying to get at is whether or not board Members kind of just look the other way or are you going to be a board Member that's going to speak out and say, you know, what, this, this, this is not correct or this is not right, or we need to do something about some of these issues and conflicts that are going on with the staff or, I mean, you know, are you going to be that kind of board Member or you're just going to go along and not say anything?

Yeah, I think I agree with Todd. Opposed in a response. I think it first starts with getting a good CEO President in place.

So the fact that you don't have one now, you can't just sit and not do nothing, just wait until you get a good CEO. So having sat on the board since.

What, June, July, July of last year.

Just going to wait and might have to wait another six months before you get a CEO. And so in the meantime.

Yeah, well, the one thing I do actually, and I want to appreciate with Todd's involvement on the board is exactly what Director said earlier, is that, you know, he's able to come in there and help work solutions within the board, try to, like, bridge the differences. So definitely, I mean, as a A board Member. I appreciate that.

The fact that, you know, he is working toward that. And so from a Chair standpoint, I think he's a very good choice for that position. And if he needs help and you know, I'm willing to help with Todd and whatever he wants to do, Todd becomes the problem.

I mean, this is hypothetical. I mean, what if he becomes a problem? Then what do you do?

Well, then you could try to like work with him and like, like resolve the problem. But I would hope, you know, again he's a, a very, you know, like straightforward, reasonable and a person who we can work with.

I, I've enjoyed actually the time that I've been spending sitting, sitting next to him and you know, discussing things and working things out.

I guess. I, I've seen so many boards where the Members just kind of go along. They don't, they don't challenge, they don't challenge the Administration, they don't challenge the board leadership, even though the leadership on boards.

And I'm not saying that this new leadership is, is, you know, as I say, but I've seen so many of that and it's frustrating because we confirm you as an individual, we don't confirm you as a group, we don't confirm you to just go along with, with whoever might be the leader at that point.

You know, we want you to, to have independent eyes and that if there's wrongdoing going on or something that's just not right, that, that you stand up and say something. Now I, I never call board Members, I never tell them how to vote, but I always tell them this.

I said I will read them, I will read the minutes, I will watch the hearings. And if you're rubber stamping stuff and you don't, you don't discuss, you don't bring up issues, you don't talk about and then you just vote without any of that kind of dialogue going on, then something's wrong. Right?

Because the board Members should be raising concerns, they should be raising issues, they should be talking about it and asking questions before making these tough decisions.

So I'm hoping that you're going to be one of those board Members because it does take, you know, I know you folks serve at no renumeration and it takes a lot of time and you do lead a company.

And so I always ask board Members, are you going to have the time to go into issues, not just show up at a meeting and then go along and vote? I, but have the time to review and dig deep and ask questions and you might have to ask questions of the staff.

You might have to ask questions, you know, and then make the decisions. So is that kind of board Member you're going to be or you are?

Yes, I, I do want to do the best and put the time in and I can just give you as a recent example of, you know, to your point that like I don't agree with just rubber stamping whatever is put in front of us.

I am the chair of the Branding Committee for the last like, I don't know, a couple months or so. And you know, we had a proposal come in from HHVCB for the $6.3 million that the Governor allocated for the Maui recovery marketing.

And you know, there's a 4 million of that was tied to wholesale OTA type of marketing campaign and they had a one to one match and generally the standard in the industry, you got to try to get at least two or three to one match on the monies being allocated.

So you know, again, rather than rubber stamping it, we, at this last board, full board meeting we did actually get them to revise it, we revised it for a full board approval vote that they would be looking at increasing that and working to increase that and not just, you know, taking whatever first comes on the table.

So you know, as in that as an example is I fully support, you know, trying to get the best use out of the states funds.

So I want to use an example and this is my last question is that. So would you be a board Member to ask that the board discuss like the convention center marketing contract and why we have two entities doing the marketing and not one?

Yeah, well I think, yeah, we did kind of like discuss that a little earlier and I do want to take a look at that too.

And again it's something I think we can work on in terms of, I don't know what the terms of the agreements are, but from a standpoint of like how we can have a better consistency in the marketing approach whether, you know, if there's some kind of split between, you know, some of it done locally for smaller groups and the convention center overall marketing be done for the bigger group separately.

You know, like we can look at.

Look at how all, all corporations or hotels and how they don't split their marketing, they don't hire an outside consultant to do 12 months or longer and only do in house up to 12 months.

And I guess if that's the norm then why are we not following that and why, why do we make it where it's split and this is an issue I've had with HTA from day one.

It was changed and then it was changed back again and now know we tried to change it back, but this is an issue and I think the board needs to understand it. I don't think half the board even know that exists.

Right.

So they care that it exists.

Yeah, no, definitely. I think that's something that I would be willing to look into.

Okay, thank you.

Any further questions? Senator Fukunaga

You know, I was interested. In some of your responses to Chair DeCoite's questions, particularly with respect to increased competition, you know, from other jurisdictions, et cetera, especially at this time where we may be seeing fall off from our traditional markets.

What do you see as some approaches that, you know, from your background on the transportation and visitor industry side, you see us being able to adopt?

Yeah, so I think the, when you look at the competition that we're facing now, you know, like as Hawaii becomes a more premium, higher priced destination, you know, we need to continue that brand marketing. I think that's very important. You know, just on network TV, like recently I've seen brand marketing by both California and Los Angeles.

You know, they've got two separate, like, you know, like different type, types of brand marketing. You know, really pointing out that California and Los Angeles, they're great places to visit. You got all of these different activities to do. So, you know, there's like just within our major California market, their advertising, their marketing and their brand name.

So I think number one is Hawaii needs to continue that marketing. And you know, the General marketing campaign is the people of the place, the Hawaiian Islands. And so part of that is to, I think when you look at the people, I think the people actually make Hawaii.

You know, it's just the different communities, the different types of experiences you have. And that's why the, I really support the way the, the budgeting, the funding is currently because you got that brand marketing where you got to maintain that image that we need for Hawaii.

And at the same time money is being allocated to the destination management side on working with the different community groups, you know, like how do we have the visit experience, you know, which is a lot shaped by our residents, you know, so it's important to make sure that they're understanding the importance of the industry and that they're getting benefits from the industry too.

So some of its communication and some of its actual programs, like, you know, those grant programs and the various other things that we do to incorporate the community understanding and benefits of the industry.

Well, it seems as though in many Respects though for a lot of the brand marketing, that's one layer. But then in terms of impacts within the local community, typically you may have some locations that are either overcrowded or have too much visitor traffic.

And so how do you see balancing and managing, you know, both the need for strong and robust visitor experiences while at the same time being able to manage local residents expectations in terms of not being totally, you know, disrupted within residential and perhaps non resort communities? Because that's part of the existing tension.

So I think, you know, from the legislative standpoint, when we talk about the need for dedicated funding, the, you know, the pushback always has been.

It's very hard to manage the growth and development of increased funding when at the same time we don't really have a strong answer for how those visitors impacts on individual communities are going to fall. And I think in transportation you probably see a lot more of that than perhaps other sectors of the industry do.

Yeah, so taking the last part first, you know, in transportation, you know, the, the thing that doesn't make too much sense to me is that a lot of like, I would say, you know, better sites like, or you know, attractive areas, they want to ban commercial transportation.

You know, so then what ends up happening is when you ban the commercial transportation, then you end up with more vehicles, more traffic, more everything on the road. So you know, one sense that, you know, communities might say, I don't want any tour bus or minibus coming in my community.

But the end, end result is then they end up having to have major, you know, individual cars, rental cars or Uber lifts coming into the area. So that's, you know, one thing that you know, as I think the destination management side, you know, each island now has their own destination management action plans, the DMAPs.

And I think even Caroline is like really trying to also spearhead that effort. And we're into the second phase of it, you know, like we're coming up with new plans and those plans, I think, you know, are getting much more active into addressing some of the concerns that you brought up.

How do we manage the flow of visitors? You know, like do we, you know, like cap the visitor accounts to certain areas? Do we have some kind of fee structure system?

And you know, again the money then has to go back into supporting that attraction, activity or whatever it is so that the residents and the visitors both can enjoy an enhanced experience. So there's definitely a lot of work that needs to be done. And I think no matter what, it'll never end.

You know, it's something that's going to be constantly worked on and improved over the years.

Well, it seems as though, you know, on one hand, if we are really gearing towards kind of a higher value type of resort or destination experience, at the same time we have much more difficult challenges to deal with.

You take examples like the farmers market at Kapila Community College or you know, on the windward side where you had so many of those beaches being overrun by commercial vehicles that, you know, part of the council response became an outright ban on commercial vehicles.

So it seems as though in one sense, while the DMAPs are an important part of it, it's almost as though the councils and the county governments in each jurisdiction also need to play a much more active role with HTA in trying to address and manage a lot of the both visitor expectations as well as neighborhood concerns.

Because, you know, it's, it's whenever things become popular, then the demand usually becomes overwhelming and then that kind of ruins the experience for everyone.

Yeah, no, that's definitely a challenge, you know, a long term challenge that would have to be like you're saying, work done consistently with, you know, from a state and a county level. The, the counties, you know, they do get 3% of the TAT for that's allocated to each of them too.

And you know, how they spend that money too is like, you know, always, you know, like to me, I don't really know where it goes or how, how it's spent.

But you know, if the county somehow did allocate, you know, some of that money back into again improving the visitor experience, I think that would be at the same time it would benefit the residents of the communities. So, you know, that I think is something that should be worked on as well.

Okay, thank you. Sure. Any further questions? Mr. Pfund, I have a lot of respect for you and Mr. Appo for being willing to jump into a fire there at HTA. I mean things are need fixing and I think that both of you are good fixers.

One thing that is out there that is going to change the direction of the board is that there's a bill to turn the board from a decision making body into one of just an advisory body. What's your thoughts on that?

I think in a, in a General sense, you know, my feeling would be to have more of a, as an official board where we can actually, you know, do things and you know, when you're just an advisory board, you can just provide, you know, comments and things of that nature.

But I think from an actual board that can set some direction Policy using the experience of the board, board Members, you know, to make sure that things would happen and get the engagement involvement of the board Members. I think that's important.

Like I'm on a tribal industry management advisory board currently and you know, we kind of have discussions with the, the Tim School leadership and everything. But you know, again, we're not, you know, having any real direction or power to, you know, make things happen. So as a separate independent board would be my kind of thought process.

Yeah.

If you were turned into an advisory board, if each Ta was turned into an advisory board, would you stay on?

I guess it. Depending on what level, you know, and the expectations are. You know, I think that has a lot to do with it too. You know, as, as an advisory board, what would be the expectations of the board, you know, to provide what type of, you know, guidance, support or whatever.

So yeah, I think it's depends on what the, the actual board ends up doing.

Okay, thank you. Any further questions, follow up.

But you already sit on advisory board. So what would make you not want to stay on the advisory board for HTA if it changed?

Well, I guess, you know, it's. It comes down to the time commitment too, right?

Because I do probably less as an advisory board than it is as a voting board.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Then you know, again it's. We really have to understand what the advisory boards role would be, you know, true role. And I think from there.

I want to follow up too on some of the things you said to Senator Fukunaga about areas that seems to be overrun with tourism. Do you think that it's important to have a carrying capacity study? And is that something HTA has been talking about?

I don't know if they have talked about an overall carrying capacity, but I think by community sites, I think that should be part of the DMAP process where you look at different areas and what would be a reasonable amount of visitors to the area like Hanauma Bay is a good example where they've used to be like 5,000 people.

I think now it's like 2,000 people or.

Yeah, because the city had to go in and shut down one day and they also had to go in and Institute fine fees to enter. But what about an overall carrying capacity? Because you know, how many, how many tourists are too much? Too many? You know, is it 9 million, 10 million, 20 million?

Is that something that you think the HTA should be looking at?

I think yeah. From a. Whether it's HTA or again like a combination of the, the different islands you know, that should be something that's on the table in terms of looking at what the true amount that can be reasonably handled.

And I think you see that worldwide now, at a lot of countries and cities, they're looking at their carrying capacity and there's like some pushback, you know, from different areas where they're banning cruise ships or the total number of visitors that are allowed at any 1.0 you know, to make sure that, I guess it's a combination of the residents and the visitor experience is, you know, makes sense.

Interesting enough, since I've been in the Senate since 2000, we've always talked about carrying capacity. We've had bills and resolutions calling for carrying capacity that's never come about. And here we are in 2025. 25 years. So I would hope that HTA would probably Institute some kind of carrying capacity study at some point.

See what is the carrying capacity. There's only so much water, there's only so much infrastructure that we have. And then finally, my other question is, if the state did not spend another dollar, another dollar on marketing or branding, do you think tourists would not come?

I think there still would be some level of visitors coming to the state. And I think the longer term issue would be if we stop spending money on the marketing branding of Hawaii, then what would be expectations of visitors coming in? What would be expectations of how our hotels, airlines, other companies market Hawaii?

So then there's no like centralized theme if we don't have an overall state branding. And I think that's really the key message is what do we want out there to the world?

And if we don't have it, then the, the type of advertising, the type of visitor coming in would be, you know, like all over the place, or could be all over the place marketing.

Before we've had state dollars going into marketing, the islands were marketed and you still have the Disney's, the Sheratons, the Hiltons, you know, all of the major hotel chains marketing Hawaii. And so at that point then it becomes, okay, so, but what portion of the state money should then go into marketing?

Because the more money we put into marketing, the less the private companies put into marketing. They cut their marketing dollars down because Hawaii is putting in money to marketing. If Hawaii didn't put in zero money, then would these entities up their marketing?

Because they don't want their hotels to go empty, they don't want the airline seats to go empty as well.

So I agree that it's a combination, but again, it's strategy and how we utilize those Dollars in combination with the dollars that's already being spent because people won't start, stop coming because the state didn't pay any money into marketing.

In fact, I think the fact of their experience here says more to what they see on TV or what they see as, as marketing and advertising.

If they don't have a good time here, if they don't like our environment, if they think that, you know, we're overrun with, with invasive species and all the other bad things that happen, they're not going to come. I don't care how much money the state puts in for branding, they're not going to come. Right.

So, you know, I always felt that there was an in disproportionate amount of dollars spent on our sense of place, on our environment than it is on marketing. And it's always been marketing. And I keep saying if people come here and, you know, the trails aren't upkeep, if the bathrooms are bad, they're not going to come back.

I don't care how much money we spend.

Right. So that's kind of like the split the way, you know, like one is that brand marketing for the, the overall, you know, like what we want to represent ourselves through the world. And then now the split with money going into the, the Kilohana side, which is covering all of these different experiences on island.

So how do we make the experience for visitors and our residents better? So I think, you know, we're trying to, it's again, to me it's a balance and you get some money for the branding.

The brand has been well, well put out there. I think the fact that, you know, we are an island state. We are, we have.

The beaches we have, the people we have, I mean we have done, it's out there. I don't know that they would have a different branding. Of course, there's times in our day-to-day activities that bad things happen and why we have to go out there and, and dispel some of those things.

But I think again, you know, the amount of money that we have in marketing needs to be strategically looked at as to how do we maintain the brand and not, and then put in, put in those funding into other areas that we don't have as much control.

So anyway, those are things that I hope HTA will talk about, discuss and then determine the budget on how we move forward. Because you folks have gone from dedicated funding, $80 million, $90 million dedicated funding every month to zero dedicated funding. To zero. So that's been, and I've warned over the years that that might go away, and it has. So.

Yeah, well, I guess we're hoping that our, our new board and you know, some of the new things that we're doing, we can kind of regain some of that.

But it's individual leaders, individuals to incentivize and make sure that these things are being discussed and that's part of your role.

Right.

Thank you for your willingness to serve.

Thank you.

I really like Senator Kim's thought process there because I've seen that there have been cases where HTA funds certain campaigns and there's no other partners along with you. And I think it really should be something that HTA should look at where you do co-ops. Right.

If you're going to fund the LA Rams or golf or whatever, there's not 100% HTA funding that there's a hotel or there's attraction or there's an airline that is sponsoring it. So that 80%, maybe 20% private sector. Because if you're not going to get the private sector to join you, it's probably a terrible campaign.

And I remember HTJ did a campaign with McDonald's in Japan offering taro pies and what have you; there were no other entities locally that joined HTA in that effort and it was a multi-million-dollar campaign. I mean, things like that.

I think as you and Todd and the rest of the board move forward, should really think about leverage state funds and only go into campaigns where there's private sector partnership. Because their absence I think speaks volumes to the fact that they don't think it's a good investment.

So why in the world is a state putting an investment in whatever that campaign might be. So not a question, just a thought in follow up to Senator Kim's line of questioning.

Yeah, 100% agree with that. You know, we should maximize the use of our state funds.

Thank you. Any further questions? Thank you, Mr. Pfund.

Thank you.

We're going to move on to our last GM of the day, GM601. This is for consideration and confirmation to the Stadium Authority Gubernatorial nominee Walter Tamis. On our testifiers list we have Chris Sarayasu from the Stadium Authority.

Good afternoon, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. Chris Sarayasu, interim stadium manager. We stand in strong support of Walter Tamis. Thank you.

Thank you. Jimmy Tokioka from DBEDT has submitted testimony support Stephen Tevis, individual also in support. Brian Andrews also in support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on this nominee? If not Mr. Tamis, if you could please step forward. Tell us a little bit about your background and why you want to serve on the Stadium Authority.

Aloha Senators. Allah for having me. Yeah. So Walter Tamis, I've... local boy, born and raised in Kealakekua and currently live in Mililani. I've been with Kamehameha Schools. This will be 30 years this, this year. You know, I began my professional career as an architect involved in private, mainly private sector design and development. Joined the schools in 1995.

It was a very different time and it was exciting for me because the reason I went to Kamehameha is they were wanting to develop new campuses and that actually was the thrust of my job for 10 years. Along the way, I learned a lot of different things.

I got into commercial real estate, actually oversaw that for the last 11 years.

And it gave me the opportunity to be in all aspects of development, planning, asset management, very complex ground and space lease structures that, you know, as you, I don't need to explain to you all Kamehameha Schools is a major landowner with a lot of history. And you know, I never really ever dreamt of public service.

I thank you all for, for the fact that you folks have made that your careers. But when this opportunity came up, after I got, you know, over the initial shock of, of it, you know, the initial no way in hell. Right.

You know, I started to think more about how, you know, even though I haven't been in public service, I've been really mission driven and supporting Kamehameha's mission.

And maybe there's time and space that I can make in my day to support the public, especially in this unique sort of opportunity because it is kind of geared to what I do and have done in the last 10 years.

You know, some of my work has been involved, you know, overseeing the development of Kakao, which, you know, you've seen four blocks develop now, various different transaction structures. Kamehameha still owns and manages interest there, but we've also had to reach deals with developers and negotiate deals with developers and kind of come up with win win situations.

And these are, these are complex because everybody wants their thing, right? They want no risk and all reward, right. So just, you know, my experience in, in that sort of area is I think one, I think can, can be helpful.

And so as I thought about it, I says, you know, I let me look into this and, and talk to folks and see how I can help. I've been a big fan of Aloha Stadium.

I feel like I long time season ticket holder, went through the June Jones years and the years after my family and I spent a lot of time there and I just really feel like, you know, as a community we deserve to have a State of the art, first class type stadium that can showcase not just competitive events, but also other events of culture and arts and Hawaii.

You know, we're a big boy city on the global stage. We should have these sort of opportunities. And, and so, you know, that's really the simplicity of it. I think I can help. I've been involved now for a few, maybe nine months. Government is new to me. I'll be quite honest.

Sunshine laws were explained to me on the first day. I'm like, what is this? And it is an interesting transaction in that there's a part that DAGS plays, a big part with the procurement that the authorities are not really driving.

And yet this authority is kind of the recipient of this and needs to transition from an organization that runs a stadium to really one that has become more, it's got to be more of a district driver for everything that happens because the opportunity here isn't just to build a stadium.

I think, you know, you have TOD, you have mixed use, you have the stadium and there's a lot of things that can happen here that would be very beneficial to the public. So I'll stop there and happy to answer any questions.

Members. Questions? Oh, sorry,

You're on districts, go ahead. Oh no, you're on this case. Good afternoon. Yeah, thank you for your willingness to serve.

You've heard some of the exchange we had with the HTA board Members and while it's a different board, certainly some of the ways in which board Members serve are similar in the sense that are you going to be one that just go along with the majority or are you one that's going to speak up?

And in the nine months you've served, have you been a vocal Member of the board?

I think I have been. I think it's not always a sign of success when all of the battles happen in open court and open forum. I mean, I think a lot of the diplomacy and the discussion on matters that are serious happen outside of meetings too.

And I know even before I joined, as I was having very early discussions with former manager Andrews, you know, I had a lot of questions and challenges around the current process. So I guess, you know, to answer your question, Senator,

I will challenge it as most appropriate and that will include, if I need to feel the need to, in an open board meeting. But a lot of times it's hashing things out with the participants in formal discussions.

In my PIGs, I've come to learn the acronym, the permitted interaction groups that we get to be a part of and I get to be a part of. And then hopefully you have enough kind of energy and consensus so that we're not battling each other so much in the meetings, which are really only once a month.

So there's not a whole lot of time.

Well, that's fair. Do you find yourself working on some of these issues not just during the once a month board meeting, but spend time, you know, researching and learning about the history and why certain things were done?

I am learning. Yeah. And so we. I have offline discussions with, with our stated current State of manager, Chris, as well as in, I sit in on the project team meetings which also happen every month.

Those are a little hard because there's a lot of people in them, but that's a good way for me to be updated on kind of what's happening across the many aspects of the project.

So having said that, and I know you weren't on the board at the time, but as someone in the public and you've been involved with Kamehameha schools and of course they have a lot of athletics that go on there. Did it trouble you that the stadium closed down with no notice. No notice to the University of Hawaii?

No notice. They just shut down. That to be a, was it a decision by the board, by the way, do you know?

I'm not aware of that decision; who made it at the time. My understanding was a safety issue.

It was an issue. So, I mean, these are the kinds of things I ask because as a board Member, and you know, you mentioned like Chris, he's not been with the, with the stadium that long. Right. I mean, so, you know, are you going beyond that?

Right. But they only found out that day.

Yeah, yeah.

What's just available to find out? Because I think it's important that we don't make that kind of mistake again. And if it was the board that did it, then what was the board thinking? Because it didn't give UH any time to prepare.

Yes.

As to going forward. And, you know, they're still in limbo because they don't even know when, when the final stadium is going to be online so that they can, you know, have their games again there. So.

No, I do hear that, Senator. And clearly, if you're asking me if that, if I think that was handled the right way, I would say absolutely not. And certainly, you know, in my role on the board, I would want to ensure that there's a lot more communication and transparency.

You know, we all been to that stadium, and that stadium has had issues for a long time. Exactly. So it should not have been a surprise to anyone. And so anyway, I guess I'll leave that there to know that I would try to ensure that it wouldn't have happened like that, If I'm on the board.

I bring that up because, and I don't know what the answer is, but if, in fact, the board Members had no knowledge, and they should have had knowledge, but they had no knowledge, that means somebody in the Administration made that decision.

And if that's the case, then if I was a board Member at the time, I would have raised bloody hell.

Yeah.

But nobody said anything. It was, it was announced, it was done. It was a done deal. So I have to...

I have to look at the board, and it might not have been their fault, but the fact that they didn't stand up to say anything to make it right or to set the record straight, because if that happened, that means this can happen again.

Because you have the same, you may have the same people involved in making another decision in the future. Similar. So, you know, and that concerns me.

And so, you know, that's the reason why I try to ask board Members and hold them accountable so that when and if you guys come back before us again, these questions are going to be asked.

Understood. Understood Senator.

Thank you.

The closure of the stadium really was the responsibility of lawmakers. We stopped funding repair and maintenance of the stadium back in 2017 time period because we had anticipation of building a new stadium. So the discussion back then was like, why put more money into securing and fortifying the stadium when we're going to have a new stadium.

Well, government has its way of shooting itself in the foot and that's why it came to 2020 when you had to close it, because we hadn't, we had deferred maintenance for well over three years and because as you mentioned, there was a safety issue.

That's the reason. I do believe that the stadium board could have made that announcement earlier. I mean that it was, it was no fault of the, the stadium authority for having a kind of bus stop stadium.

But yeah, to Senator Kim's point, the, the timing of the announcement could have been much better, handled much better, but.

Make a correction. And I, I don't know if you were on in the Legislature, but we had put money into the budget and the governors, subsequent governors, had denied the wick question, did not spend the monies for the repairs of the stadium.

Okay. It was both parties. We didn't appropriate and sometimes the Governor vetoed or didn't spend the money. But it was the stadium authority that inherited a stadium that was in disrepair. But yeah, the handling of the announcement could have been much better.

Well, and certainly I think we can all agree people shouldn't be surprised, especially your primary user, if that indeed was the case.

I have a question for you about the pace of us moving towards a project agreement. Stanford Carr and his AHTP have missed numerous deadlines. How confident are you that come the big deadline, which is June 30th of this year, that we're actually going to have a contract signed?

I would say, Senator, that you, I'm not close, as close enough to the negotiations to be able to give you a definitive answer, but I am concerned.

I understand you can have as much vision as you want, it can look as great as you want and you can sell it, but if it doesn't meet the financial minimums of a project like this, it's, it's not going to go. So I'm not, you know, I've heard Mr. Carr here at various meetings talking about the financial feasibility. That gives me great concern. And I think as a board we need to start talking about what are our contingency plans. Not that we don't want to cheer for his success and help get him there, but we need to have a backup plan.

And so that's definitely something that I know our team and Chris has been working on, and bringing us along on. But I can't sit here with total confidence because I know it's a financial issue.

You know, if it were like permitting or some procedural matter that I think we could try to overcome or speed up, that'd be different. I think financially I've been a part of projects that have really gone slow because of financial matters.

I think we got to get Stanford and his team kind of to the table and really delving into that financial plan. And that's part of the procurement part of this. And I believe that will happen once this, the develop...

The preliminary development agreement gets signed because it'll also allow the stadium authority to advance the funding it's committed to. To get them into due diligence and nailing this thing down. I'm told that that should be happening soon and I'd have a better answer for you then. Yeah.

So you said you're not part of the negotiation or not close enough to the negotiations that some of these things concern you, the financials. So have you asked that you folks be briefed, have you met with the CARs to be behind closed doors to get this information, knowing that you're coming before us?

You've heard Stanford CAR come before us, but you been. Didn't come before you as a, as a stadium board, is that.

Yeah, we're not permitted to be part of that negotiation, as I understand it.

But you can ask for official update, right?

We do. We get updates on the process, but we're not given the actual financial models that he's created and that sort of thing.

But can't you guys ask to do that behind closed doors?

That's not my understanding. We aren't allowed to do that.

Have you asked?

I did, actually, when I first came on board.

And have you asked recently that you.

I haven't asked recently.

Before us. And that you want to make sure you have an understanding of where it's at?

I haven't asked recently.

But see, those are the kinds of things that I think that the board needs to exert itself if in fact you think it's important. Because like you said, there should be a contingency plan. There is no contingency plan. June is just right around the corner. So what's going to happen? Again, we're going to hold you accountable.

Why didn't you guys do a contingency plan? Right?

Understood.

You know, and you also mentioned that financing is a problem. Yes. And so if you only have $250 million, that's all that this body, the Legislature provided, then what do you do? I mean, you know, is the developer going to spend his own 150, $200 million?

Yep.

Would you, as a developer, would you do that?

I wouldn't do that if. Now I wouldn't. I would need to look at the terms. I mean if- it depends on how the ground lease, the master ground lease is structured, how, there's value across many aspects of this project that need to be looked at.

You've seen gambling go down. You've seen a lot of the proposals that were made go down. And you have what you have right now. And so I just think as a board, you know, I would insist that we would do contingency plans.

And I have to admit, I haven't looked at your Board Meetings, so I don't know if you folks have brought it up, but it seems as though you've not.

Yeah, we haven't discussed it in the Board Meetings.

So how. How does it get discussed?

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, maybe we do need to bring that up.

Any further questions? If not Members, if it's okay with you, I'd like to just move into decision making.

Thank you.

And since we're a little bit pressed on time, if you're okay, I wouldn't mind. If you don't mind, can we just sweep all three of them at once in one vote?

So the recommendation is going to be for GM 510 submitting for consideration and confirmation to the board of Directors of the Hawaii Tourism Authority Gubernatorial nominee Todd Apollo, as well as GM 602 for consideration and confirmation to the board of Directors of the Hoya Tourism Authority Gubernatorial nominee Roy Fund, and GM 601 submitted for consideration, the confirmation Stadium Authority Gubernatorial nominee Walter Tamus.

All three of these individuals are filiing to be very skilled, very willing to offer their sets of backgrounds and skill sets to make Hawaii better and tourism, as well as in land development, and would like to recommend that we advise and confirm on all three individuals. Any discussion? If not Senator Kim? I vote yes on all three.

Okay. For GM 510 for the confirmation of Todd. Approved for HTA. Should the court is excused, Senator Kai.

Yes.

Senator Fukunaga? Aye. I vote aye. Senator Awa. Aye. Four ayes one excuse. Recommendations adopted for GM 602 for the confirmation of Roy Fund to the Hawaii Tourism Authority chair. Record is excused. And anyone present? Voting no. Anyone with reservations? Hearing none. All four Members vote and positive. Also adopted. And for GM 601, form for Walter T. Beams. Tamus. Tamus.

Sorry, Thamus. He's famous. Tamus. Okay, that's a good way to remember that. For the Stadium Authority board, any Members voting negative. Any Members voting with reservations Hearing none. For Members present, one excuse. All three have been Bison consent.

Congratulations, we are adjourned.