Senate Standing Committee on Water and Land

Foreign Good afternoon. Now we can say this is Aloha Friday. All right. Good afternoon, folks. Good to see you here. And those that are on Zoom, this is the Committee on Water and Land. The hearings for today, March 212025. Just some housekeeping measures today.

Those are a reminder that if you can stand on your testimony and those on Zoom as well, we'll be limiting it to two minutes. And the live video of this hearing can be found on the Senate's YouTube channel. And decision making will follow today's hearings.

And for those of you just to keep up with what's happening, because this Committee has two agenda items and we'll be proceeding with an agenda that we had deferred decision making and a hearing notice because of time limited previously. And so we will be taking the agenda items at a hearing and decision making later.

That starts with the SR118. However, we will not take a break. We'll continue on with the second. And this, this starts from scr 42. And let's see. I think I'm correct decision. Sorry, I need to be corrected. The decision will hear. Sorry, just the opposite. We will be hearing if I'm correct and Steph, let me know.

We'll be doing a hearing and decision making on the SCR40 that starts with SCR42 agenda. Okay. And then we'll continue on with the second agenda which will be doing decision making only because we had a hearing on that and it starts with SR118. So.

Okay, now that we got this straightened out, Members, thank you for being here on Aloha Friday day. And we'll start with scr 42, Sr 27. And this is urging DLNR and this is the Division of Forestry and Wildlife to prioritize the restoration and protection of additional wetlands and ankling ponds. Good to see everyone here up and ready.

Start hearing notice first. Okay. Dear Eleanor, who will be doing hearing today. Good. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Dawn Shang, on behalf of the Department of Land and Natural Resources with respect to. We're going to stand on our written testimony and support. The only comment that we offer is we think that there might have just been an error on page two regarding the reference to Division of Agriculture.

I think it should be the Division of Aquatic Resources. Thank you for catching that. I don't think we want to give DOA any more, any more responsibility than they have.

That we may disagree.

Thank you. Thank you so much. And Members, anytime we have the agencies here, feel free to jump in and ask questions at the time. At the Same time. All right. Testifying as well on SCR 42, Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition, Ted Boland. We received testimony in support. Maui Ocean center in support.

And we have two individuals as well, Tasman Matox and Cynthia Punihaole Kennedy, my friend from Kona side on Hawaii island, in support. Is there anyone else wishes to speak onto SCR 42 and Sr 27? Okay, Members, any questions? Okay, now just to confirm again, Chairman, was that. On which portion of which. On page two? Page two. Okay.

I would say. Zero, okay. The one on line 13.

Okay.

Yes. Okay. And that's to be changed to DOA. Yeah. No, Odar, that's right. This is a DARS. Okay, good catch. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, let's proceed then with scr54 and Sr36.

And this is requesting DLNR to establish a desalination planning task force to determine whether the use of desalination for large scale water consumption in the state is. Is feasible. Okay, dlnr, thank you very much.

Chair. Vice Chair Dawn Shang, on behalf of the Department of Land and Natural Resources. I also have Neil Fuji with the Commission on Water Resource Management. We offer comments. This is a rather large task, I think, and we currently don't have the capacity and we don't believe to meet all of the items listed under the resolution.

It would probably have us go beyond 2026. However, we would offer, and I think BWS is coming up to testify, but they're planning a desalinization plan, so it might be worthy of seeing the outcome of their, you know, what unfolds with BWS before embarking on this desal study. Okay, thank you.

Thank you so much. Questions? Senator Elefante? Yeah.

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Chair Chang. So this establishes a working group task force. So you would have collaboration with the counties per se. Right. To come up with what's requested in terms of high need area safe drinking water for a desalination plant. So is the Department opposed to.

No, I mean, I think it's a worthy. It's, you know, it's. So I was saying it's sort of counterintuitive we're surrounded by salt water, but we're not, you know, is desalinization a really viable alternative?

And I think recognizing that BWS is already embarking on that, that we may get a lot better results rather than having a working group in real time seeing the outcome of their study. But we're not necessarily adverse to this. It's just that we just have a lot on our plate. Right. And to take.

Yeah, it's just a capacity issue, but.

I would think not only in the city and County of Honolulu, but from, you know, where all of us represent on the different counties as well. So. Okay. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Well, this is sort of interesting because we've had other measures that talk about desalination, but it's like for other uses. Other. But this one here is for consumption. If I read it.

They're doing a municipal scale.

Yeah. So this is honorable use. Exactly. So it's kind of interesting because the measures that we've heard pretty much was looking at how we can use that scale of water for agriculture and for golf courses, but now we're talking about one that says consumption.

So I think we need to be careful as well, because I would hope that maybe this measure, like as we discussed is Waterland maybe and Department of Health to talk about these kind of issues. To me, I think. Yes. When it talks about the consumption part on the.

Yeah, they're already doing it in California. They're already municipal level scale desalinization proved by the California Coastal Commission in two cities right now. So it's already being done in an environmentally friendly way because the California Coastal Commission, as you're aware, is a very rigorous body to get approval from anything on.

So my point being I'm kind of agreeing with you in that, you know, this working group could inadvertently be duplicating what is already out there and all water is handled by the municipalities there. Go to the county.

No, I appreciate that and we recognize that. And I know that in particular, Director John Stuffelbeen is extremely looking at this, and I think that's where he comes from, California. But their energy cost is much lower than ours as well. So that may be some of the other consideration.

But I mean, I do think we have to explore all other options for potable water, given the extensive drought and the fact that we know that we're going to have a lot less. So I appreciate the labs being creative and looking at other options. Thank you.

But I do, you know, recognize though, as you mentioned, though, that the date needs to be, if this measure passes or whatever needs to be extended a little more now that someone else was going to be here.

Well, the BWS, I think. I think BWS is here because I.

Don't have a communication. So I hope if somebody's here, then can come in. Yes. And. And I'd like to hear too.

Okay.

Yeah. Anyone from bws. Yeah, come on up. Thanks again. You know, for. Yes, for being here as you. Your representation from the BWS is appreciative, you know of the Committee that you know you're here and in case we have any questions. Yes.

Kathy Mitchell with the Board of Water Supply. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. We support this. Seneca Concurrent Resolution 54 and Senate Resolution 36. The. The. Currently it's the. The report is due prior to the 2026 and we're still in the planning and design.

We don't expect to start the project and the construction phase like the late 2027 or maybe and depending on any permit delays maybe 2028. And the facility that we're building is. Is going to produce 1.7 million gallons a day. It's not small, but it's not. It's not huge compared to what we already provide to the public.

But this would supplement the water out there in ever site.

So when did the. When did the project start? Some years ago or recently. It'll take time now.

Yeah, it's going to take some time. I. I'm not exactly sure. Sure. We applied for federal funding and it's still pending because they're asking questions and we're not certain what's going to happen at the federal level if it will be rescinded. We're not sure but. But we're moving forward.

Okay. Are you familiar with. So this project you're doing is. Is it pretty much concentrating on sitting county or Oahu? Are you familiar with any of the other islands are doing similar.

I know Maui wants to. Maui's looking at it. Nelha has a project going. Yeah. Yeah. But as manager and chief engineer Ernie Yao, he said now's the time to plan for this. Sure. Yeah. Not. Not later down the road. Now's the time to plan.

But when we talked about this particular one, it's for large scale water consumption. So the projects that the other islands are doing, do you know if it's similar?

I don't think the other islands Trevi. I don't think it's that. That as big. Okay. Yeah. And our project, the facility is going to be out in California so pretty.

Much still research stages then.

Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. Any questions? Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it. And I heard because I think I did say I didn't receive any. You did send testimony. Yes. Thank you so much. Okay. Anyone else wishes to speak on serious 54 and SR36.

Okay, hearing now let's proceed with SER59, SR43 and this has to do with requesting DLNR. This is the Division of Boating and Ocean Recreation and Kapo Ulawi Island Reserve Commission to work collaboratively and in partnership to maintain the Kihei ramp with the betterment of the community DLNR.

Thank you Chair, Vice Chair. Dawn Shang, on behalf of the Department of Land and Natural Resources. I also have Todd Tashima here with Division of Boating and Oxygen Recreation. I mean we are currently working collaboratively with Kirk and we will continue to do that.

I did want to provide some updates on some expenditure or some improvements that we have done at Kihei. In 2016 and 2017 we did a improvement paving and washed. On 2020 we did a dredging of the ramp channel and in 2023 we did a retaining wall and washed on improvements.

So we will continue to work with Kirk as well as Dobar will continue to try to put in and appreciate the Senators from those fundings. But if you have any questions, we're here to answer them. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much.

Kahoolawe Island Reserve Commission and I think, let's see, Michael was going to be here. However, we did have communication in support, Serena Rees in support and Elizabeth De Leon in opposition. Is there anyone else wishes to speak to SCR 5900 and Sr 43? Let's proceed then to the last item on the agenda.

This is SER106 and SR87 and this is requesting the Office of Planning and Sustainable Development to Commission a study of the different energy consumption sectors to determine which sector can be most quickly and cost effectively decarbonized through additional public investment in combustion free alternatives. This kind of sounds familiar. I think we did something years back.

But nonetheless, let us call on OPSD.

Chair and Members Mary Ella Sevens with the Office of Planning and Sustainable Development. So after looking at scr106, I did contact the State Energy Office and pursuant to Act 238 that you passed in 2022, they did do a decarbonization study that was quite significant body of work and is now posted on their website.

And that's why it kind of sounded familiar. Yeah. And then they followed up that with a alternative fuels analysis which is also a public document now.

And it does give, I think what you were the Legislature was hoping to get, which is sort of a cost benefit analysis of the different types of fuels, I think with a focus on reducing the cost to Hawaii residents because some renewable fuels, as you know, are expensive and others are less so.

And of course we're always looking at the cost of, you know, living here and trying to find that balance, you know, so we think that, you know, the intent of the resolution is very positive, but we also think that the work has been done to answer the questions that have been posed in the resol. Thank you.

Okay. I'm just kind of wondering, perhaps this measure should have gone to energy as well. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, thank you. That's kind of important as well to know that measures have been ongoing and it's good to keep up. And I'm kind of glad that, well, with this measure then, you know, see where we are and where we were, that it's an ongoing work. Yeah. The. All right. Okay.

Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii. Melody Aduja in support. And Mike Iwo. Are you on Zoom? That's you, Mike.

Yes, I am.

That is me and Energy Justice Network.

Correct.

All right, Aloha, proceed.

Okay. Aloha chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Mike Ewal with Energy Justice Network representing our Hawaii based Member organizations. I want to point out that this is not the same as what the state energy office has done before.

And we heard that just now with the testimony before me in that they talked specifically about alternative fuels, renewable fuels, things that are burnable and are expensive largely because they have to be imported because there is not the land or water available in the state to be growing biofuels anyway, as was testified before Senate Committee in the past month.

And so the purpose of this is to build on the work that was already done in previous studies, but take out all the burnable fuels and see what can be done with solving things without having to burn stuff.

There are studies from other parts of the country that have found that electric grids and other sectors, including transportation, can be decarbonized with wind, solar and energy storage without having to burn anything and cost effectively.

And I don't think there's been a study of that sort in Hawaii to see how it could be done here so that the Legislature doesn't have to keep entertaining bills about how to liquefy every bit of waste and every crop and tree to feed vehicles, for example, when that isn't needed and there are better alternatives already available.

So I encourage you to support this so we can get that further research to see how we can do this in the most carbon free, combustion free way possible.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Ted Bowen sent communication in support. Green Party of Hawaii, Susan Roberts Emery in support. Robert Culbison in support. Katherine Fryer and Keith Neal in support. Is there anyone else wishes to speak to scr106 and Sr87 going once, going twice. This concludes the first agenda item on this measure.

And decision making will follow after we complete the last measure. zero, this is decision making anyway. So you know what? We'll be going into making decisions then as we speak. Thank you. You're gonna go back to what he came. Yes. Yes. Okay. The. Okay. You know, I think. Okay. The only one that was going to do.

All right. Okay. Let's go into decision making. And this is the Committee on Water and Land on its Friday's agenda. Members, this is the decision. The deferred measure as well. We will proceed then with SR118.

And this is requesting DLNR to transfer active agriculture land leases under the jurisdiction of the Department of Land and Natural Resources to the Department of Agriculture to support agriculture in the state. Chair's recommendation is to pass this measure as is. Any discussions hearing None. Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes Aye.

Chair's recommendations to pass SR118 as is. [Roll Call] Madam Chair recommendations adopted.

Thank you. SCR51. SR33. And this is requesting the office OPSD to convene the working group to evaluate the establishment and administrative placement of an Office of Resilience and Recovery. Just one question, Mary Alice. The dates. Everything works on this one. Do you? Okay. All right. All right. Okay. We'll move on then.

Chair's recommendation on this measure is to pass as is. Any discussion hearing None. Vice Chair for the vote. Chair goes Aye.

Chair's recommendation is to pass SCR 51 and SR 33 unamended. Of the five Members present any no votes or votes with reservations? Hearing none. Madam Chair, recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. On SCR47. And this is authorizing the issuance of a term non exclusive easement covering a portion of state submerged land seaward of TMK 243010009 at Kahana Lahaina, Maui. Chair's recommendation on this measure. We'll just be deferring this resolution. Okay. Thank you. And we'll proceed with SCR 76 and SR 59. Okay.

This is urging the Department of Land and Natural Resources to consult with the Kahana Bay Steering Committee, the County of Maui and the U.S. army Corps of Engineers regarding a path forward for the proposed Kahana Bay erosion mitigation project with this measure. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments.

There's technical and non substantive amendments as well as the amendments that would clarify the whereas clauses implying the Office of Planning and Sustainable Development as a coordinating body in bringing together parties on this project. Okay. Any discussions Hearing None. Vice Chair for the vote Measure is with amendments.

Okay. Chair's recommendation Is to pass SCR 76 and Sr 59 with amendments of the five Members present any no votes or votes with reservations? Hearing none. Madam Chair, Recommendations adopted.

Okay, thank you very much. Then we'll proceed with the measure that was before us as well. And this is SCR42 SR27 urging DLNR division of Forestry and Wildlife to prioritize the restoration and protection of additional wetlands and ankiline ponds. TIR's recommendation is to pass this measure with amendments that are just with technical and non substantive amendments.

Any discussions Hearing None. Vice Chair for the vote Chair goes Aye.

Chair's recommendations to pass SCR 42 Sr 27 with amendments of the five Members present any no votes or votes with reservations? Hearing none. Madam Chair, recommendations adopted.

Okay, thank you. SCR 54 and SR 36 and this is requesting DLNR to establish a desalination planning task force to to determine whether the use of desalination for large scale water consumption in the state is feasible. Chair's recommendation that we pass this measure just with technical and non substantive amendments. Any discussions Hearing None.

Vice Chair for the vote Chair goes Aye.

Chair's recommendations to pass SER 54 and SR 36 with amendments of the Members present five Members present any no votes or votes or reservations hearing None Madam Chair Recommendations adopted.

Okay. Just. Just a question. Chair, was this the one that the daily the dates were asked much longer period?

This is 26 US to get a report by next year. Yeah, yeah that's we would need at least.

Okay, here's what we'll do with because. Yes, I know but in the Committee Committee report can we recognize that there is with regards to the reporting date and the effective date that perhaps we'll extend it to maybe like two years. I think that would be sufficient. Consider that it be moved the next chamber. Okay. All right. Okay.

Thank you very much. And that we voted already, right?

Yep.

Okay. SCR59 and SR43 and this is requesting DLNR of the and this is the Division of Boating and Ocean Recreation and Kahuolawi Island Reserve Commission to work collaboratively in the partnership to maintain the Kihei ramp for the betterment of the community.

Just recognizing that you know the this particular continued maintenance and the cooperation of all the bodies has been ongoing. However, we'll continue to move this measure forward and we'll pass. Recommendation is to pass with technical and non substantive amendments. Any discussions okay. Vice Chair for the vote for SCR 59 and Sr 43 to pass with amendments.

There's recommendations to pass SCR 59, SR 43 with amendments. Of the five Members present, any no votes or votes with reservations? Hearing none. Madam Chair, recommendations adopted.

Okay. And for SCR106 and SR87, we'll defer this measure indefinitely. Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Enjoy the weekend for all. And this concludes the Water and Land Committee.