House Standing Committee on Higher Education

Good afternoon, everyone. Happy aloha Friday. We are now convening the House Committee on Higher Education. Today is Friday, March 14, 2025, 2:02pm. We are in Conference Room 309. Members, we have five bills on our agenda today, so let's get right into it. Up first is Senate Bill 741 relating to the University of Hawaii.

This bill establishes an external audit committee within the, UH, to audit the, UH system and Board of Regents and requires annual reports to the legislature. Up first, we have the, UH Board of Regents testifying in opposition.

Laurie Toshiki. On behalf of the Board of Regents, we stand on our written testimony, but we're available to answer any questions.

Thank you very much for coming down today. Up next, the University of Hawaii Professional Assembly likewise testifying in opposition.

Yeah, UHPA. Christian Ferm with UHPA. We stand on our testimony.

Any audit for those groups.

There are constant audits. So in each. In each year there's a schedule of audits, there's a schedule of regular audits and then a schedule of special audits.

Okay, thank you. Standing in opposition. Is there anyone else in the room wishing to testify on Senate Bill 741? Seeing none, members, please note we have comments from the Office of Information Practices as well as the Office of the Auditor and testimony in opposition from the Public First Law Center and four individuals. Members any questions?

Okay, I have one for Ms. Tochiki, please. I know the testimony reflects that there's already a system in place regarding various audit mechanisms of the independent Audit Committee, The Board of Regents has their own Office of Internal Auditor, Internal Audit. Do you know when the last time there was such an audit conducted?

Specifically on the cinema and or, or any audit. I'm sorry.

So it is a very active, probably understaffed for the volume of audits. We also employ external auditors who are professional auditors who do a number of regular audits. So we're quite well audited. Thank you.

Okay. And in your opinion, that system seems to work pretty well?

Yes.

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Seeing no other questions, moving on to the next bill, Senate Bill 1252 SD2.

This bill is relating to dementia, requires the UH Board of Regents to establish a specialized training program to educate healthcare providers on methods to best care for patients having Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia, and it appropriates funds. Up first, the Alzheimer's Association of Hawaii. Good timing. Testifying in support.

Yes. Thank you. Coby Chock on behalf of the Alzheimer's Association. You know, we're in full support of this bill. We believe that there needs to be a lot more training that goes on across the healthcare provider sector because it's not just the physicians that provide care.

It's also the nurse practitioners, nurses, even down to social workers who provide that base level of cognitive assessments. We support this program because it will really go into depth and cover all of these different fields within the, UH, system who are really that first step in educating this healthcare provider network. So we stand on our written testimony. But yeah, thank you here for questions.

Thank you, Coby. Up next, Calvin Hara also testifying in support.

Thank you, Chair. Vice Chair. Testifying in support. Along with what the Alzheimer's Association proposes, also the merits of the University of Hawaii in really looking beyond the status quo and with the focus of helping people with Alzheimer's and other dementia. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else in the room mission to testify on Senate Bill 1252? Seeing none. Members, please note, we have comments from the John A. Burns School of Medicine, Dean Shoemaker, and support from two individuals. Any questions? Okay, Vice Chair.

Thank you, Chair. Question for Coby, please. So why are you targeting these specific professions under the curriculum being developed in this program? Can you just kind of inform us on that and also how you envision seeing this program work within the university system?

Sure. So we identified these professions as all of these have direct care that they provide to those facing Alzheimer's, even from the point of not even being diagnosed yet, going through the diagnosis process, through being diagnosed and being in the later stages. These are all folks who provide direct care.

And statistics show that a significant portion of those with Alzheimer's diagnosis are made by the primary care. However, that hasn't been always the case. Many feelings, according to statistics, that they haven't been trained all that much in this. And this is something that we need to really fill the gap on.

And how we envision this happening is within the John A. Burns School of Medicine, they have various things happening all over. Even the University testified to them having things going on in the School of Social Work regarding dementia.

We envision this being kind of put together as a specialized program within jabsum and the faculty members, the lecturers within this program, can provide courses to the university students within the system, the John A. Burns School of Medicine, the nursing program, as well as community colleges across the state via asynchronous or synchronous virtual courses.

And this is because, you know, the courses at even the community college level, they exist for cnas and even cnas play a key role in providing care for those living with dementia.

Thank you. Is there anyone here from the University to testify on this measure at all? No. So, Coby, maybe I can ask you. Do you have have you computed a rough estimate of what this program might cost and how many positions the University may need to actually make it an effective program?

That's a good question. I believe the University may have noted in their testimony maybe a couple staffing and then about $500,000. I also have this that I prepared. It has kind of a breakdown of some of the courses and curriculum and things that can be involved in this program. If I could provide it to you for the Committee report or putting in a testimony.

Sounds good. Thank you.

Thanks, Coby. Thank you so much. Make sure the Committee gets it.

Thank you, Chair.

Any other questions? Okay, Seeing none. Next bill. Senate Bill 1502 SD1, relating to the University of Hawaii.

This Bill appropriates funds for the establishment of faculty positions, student programs and facilities at the College of Social Sciences at the University of Hawaii at Manoa and the University of Hawaii, West Oahu, for workforce development in the defense sector of the state's economy with an effective date of 7/31/2050. Up first, the UH system. Anyone here?

We have Wei Zhang. Is that you?

Yes. Aloha, Chair Garrett and Vice Chair Amato and the Committee Member. I'm Wei Zhang, Associate Dean for Academic Affairs at the College of Social Sciences at UH Manoa. Also here today with me is Jarris Grove, Program Director and Professor of Political Science, and Frank Kudo, Business and Division Chair at UH West Oahu.

We are here to advocate for the bill SB 1502 SD1, UH Manoa and UH West Oahu are working together on this workforce development program supported by the Chamber of Commerce, Hawaii and Pacific Intelligence Innovation Initiative, among others.

This project would enable the people of Hawaii, who have strong expertise in and affinity for Pacific Islander and Asian cultures and the languages, to become job ready after earning academic degrees focused on international affairs, intelligence issues and cyber security. We stand on our written testimony and are available to answer your questions. Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much. Up next, Chamber of Commerce of Hawaii likewise testifying in support.

Good afternoon, Chair. Good afternoon, Vice Chair. Members of the Committee, Tonga Hopoi with the Chamber of Commerce, Hawaii. Very happy to see this bell scheduled, and thank you so much for hearing it. Sending our testimony and support here for any questions. Mahalo.

Okay, thank you very much. Up next. Oh, sorry. UH Manoa Dr. Grove, testifying in support.

Yes, Chair Garrett, Vice Chairman Amato, thank you very much. I'm Jairus Grove. I'm from the Department of Political Science. We started this program a little over five years ago as a joint effort with the J2 as the Director of Intelligence for Indo Pacific Command, Admiral Mike Suderman.

His complaint was he didn't see any Hawaii residents in any of the rooms he was working in. And these are the rooms that determine the fate not just of the United States, but most specifically of Hawaii. And the goal was, how do we get Hawaii residents into the rooms making decisions?

And one of the biggest impediments to that is that you have to already have clearance before you apply for many of these analyst jobs and other related positions. So hundreds of Intel jobs are being added to the Hawaii economy every year, but very few Hawaiians can actually compete for them. So our program starts at the high school level.

We recruit students from all of the islands and we bring them on campus, more than 40 of them, and they get free college credit for the summer and get to learn and meet people in the industry that starts them on a process so that when they're college students, we can place them in sponsored internships that get them that clearance and then make sure that when they have actually graduated, they've been through a process of professionalization and the clearance process so they can actually compete for these jobs.

Right. And they have the skill sets, they have the interest. This ranges from the STEM field to the social sciences, to language specialists, to people who do geoint and study geographic information systems. All things that our university thrives in, but for which those people are having to leave the island to find high caliber jobs.

So we really feel passionate about this. It's something we really see benefiting our students and we really appreciate your support.

Thank you. Thank you. Dr. Grove, available for questions. Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else in the room wishing to testify? Senate Bill 1502, SD1. Just say your name for the record, please.

Yes, Emily Sarasa.

Zero, I'm sorry, we have you here. Yeah, please go ahead.

Aloha chair. Vice Chair. I'm a recent UH grad and I'm opposing SB 1502. I don't think that the University should be set up as a pipeline for the defense sector here.

I went to a university in Florida for undergrad and that is the opportunities provided is to go work with the microphone a little, to go work for military contractors. And I think that we can do better for our students here. I don't disagree that students need more opportunity.

I talked to the academic labor union at the school, they would love funding for other grad programs, but I don't know that it's in the best interest of this community to further ingrain the military here. Like the damages and the harms that are done here, I think that we can allocate that money in a much better way.

And I think it's only seen as a valuable opportunity because we're not giving students other opportunities. I think we have to envision a better future for people and give them other pipelines and thinking about who's in the room and like I'm thinking about engineering here and the infrastructure.

If you talk to contractors here, they'll say that they don't have talent here either. But the civil engineering school here is not up to par nationally. So this money could be allocated here to improve local infrastructure. I'm thinking about R and D for building materials. How much are we importing here? What about the food system?

Like all of that money, I just, I know that security is important here and we want to create jobs, but let the Federal Government Fund that. And I also think yesterday an agency said in a similar bill, a state agency said, I know that federal funding is going to be cut, but defense sector funding won't be.

So why would we as a state be catering even more to what the Federal Government is imposing on us? So I urge you to oppose this bill and support better opportunities. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you Ms. Sarasa. Appreciate you coming down. Anyone else in the room wishing to testify on Senate Bill 1502 SD1 seeing none, members, please note we also have testimony and support for from the Hawaii Military Affairs Council, the Hawaii Island Chamber of Commerce and one individual. Members, any questions?

Okay, seeing none, we'll move to the next bill. Senate Bill 1530 relating to the University of Hawaii. This bill requires the Board of Regents or the President of the UH to allocate general funds appropriated to UH to UH program IDs in accordance with performance based outcomes relating to student achievement and degree attainment.

Requires the President to submit reports to the Legislature and requires the President to propose at least three efficiency measures to the Director of Finance to produce a more effective budget. Up first we have the UH System Calvert Young providing comments.

Thank you, Chair, Madam Vice Chair, Members have our testimony, we can stand on our testimony. I would just sum up to say that our testimony lists a number of concerns in regards to the measure. While the University is not objectionable to performance based metrics, that's certainly best practice.

The way the bill is written, it imposes metrics across the entirety of the General Fund Budget. And that is not a practical approach to running a government operations. Happy to answer any questions. And with me is also Vice President Deborah Halbert, who is the Vice President on the overall, on the academic side.

And I'm happy to answer any questions related to the financial budgeting aspects. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Young. Up next, UHPA Mr. Fern testifying in opposition.

Yes, we'll stand on our testimony and strong opposition to.

Okay, thank. Thank you. Do we have the Attorney General's Office available via Zoom? Oh, you're here. Okay. I'm sorry, they're here in person.

Ian Robertson, Deputy Attorney General. I'm here for Candace Park. We submitted testimony with comments regarding Article 10 of the State Constitution and suggesting an amendment. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else in the room wishing to testify on Senate Bill 1530? Seeing none. Members, please. And we have testimony from the Department of Budget and Finance providing comments and four individuals in opposition. Members, any questions? Senate Bill 1530. Okay, seeing none we'll move on to the last Bill of the day, 16.

I'm sorry. Senate Bill 1624 SD1, relating to the University of Hawaii. This bill requires the Board of Regents to expend funds appropriated to renew, improve, or modernize existing UH facilities for only those purposes and not for current, ongoing or anticipated capital improvement projects. Requires annual reports to the Legislature with an effective date of 7/31/2050. Up first, the UH system.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Vice President Jan Govea is actually online in Zoom, but she's under the weather, so I'm going to cover for her in person and if you have any specific questions for her, she's, she is available. The University has submitted testimony in opposition to this Bill as currently drafted at the SD1.

We've outlined a number of areas of concerns in terms of the sensibility of the language in the bill and can stand on that testimony. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Up next, Attorney General providing comments.

Yes, Ian Robertson, Deputy Attorney General. Again, we submitted testimony with comments regarding article 10 of the State Constitution and suggesting an amendment. Thank you

Okay, thank you very much. Is there anyone else in the room wishing to testify? Anyone else via Zoom? Don't think so. Okay, thank you. Members, any questions? Senate Bill 1624 SD1. If not, I have one for Mr. Young. Can you educate the committee on how the rim process works for tackling things like deferred maintenance?

Certainly. So the concept of rim, or RIM, which stands for Renew, Improve, Modernize, is in the budget, has been appropriated in the budget that way for at least the last, I'm going to say five, could be as much as seven plus years. It's a lump sum funding approach.

So for all projects that the University may want to pursue that are items such as addressing deferred maintenance, major rnm, or projects to modernize or contemporize existing facilities, an amount is provided or appropriated via RIM by the Legislature in the budget. And the University has to make decisions on which projects can be done for whatever the amount is.

This is a practice that has developed over time because it's been made clear that the state, the Legislature, the University, we cannot, we just cannot get enough monies and there's not enough provided to meet the deferred maintenance and the ongoing RNM each year.

So this way it's more, I'm gonna say efficient in that for whatever amount the Legislature can provide, the University can go and use that monies towards as many projects as it possibly could. But strategically, so. So to address deferred maintenance, it's been the running rate for annual scheduled maintenance runs anywhere from $65 to $85 million a year.

And that would just be the standstill. But getting appropriations at that level has not been, that's not been the reality. So where the amount of RIM is, the University can make choices on which maintenance items are the most efficient to stretch the farthest amount of the appropriation.

Okay, as a follow up, if there's a CIP project that might have a funding shortfall, is RIM money allocated to make up that or do you come back to the Legislature for additional funding?

So the way RIM works is that it has that flexibility that if there is projects that have shortfall, to the extent that there's RIM funds available in that appropriation, they can be utilized across projects.

Okay, and then do you folks, does Administration report to the Board of Regents on how the RIM money is allocated?

Yes. So the Board of Regents has policies that after the Legislature has approved a budget for the upcoming fiscal year, including that for CIP Capital Improvement Projects, that will determine what list of projects the University is going to go after approval, the University needs to get approval from the Board of Regents for the capital program for that upcoming year.

So how that RIM monies or any monies appropriated for capital projects are going to be allocated and which projects are going to get done so that get that has to get approved at the start of the fiscal year and then those projects can be executed on. And then there are.

Board of Regents also requires quarterly updates on progress of capital projects. And then there's an annual conclusion report on status at the end of the fiscal year as well.

Okay, thank you. And then final question. Prior to the RIM process that you said started about five years ago, how did the University handle deferred maintenance and other projects?

Yep. So before RIM, there was individual Legislature appropriated to individual projects. So which is. That's typically the standard in the budget for other departments. You're appropriating very specific projects, a very specific amount.

And if those projects are over budget or cannot be done for the amount appropriated, then there's, you know, there is a process because there is no fluidity of funds because the appropriation is very specific to a particular project. So that was the University prior to rim.

But unlike other departments, the University also had a lump sum funding for deferred maintenance or major repairs in the community college system. So the Legislature would already appropriate some monies into this lump sum concept. It is from that concept that led to the Legislature creating this, this RIM approach.

And I've only been at the University for 10 years, so my understanding is prior to the start of it, the University was appropriated explicit project by project for capital projects. Yeah.

Similar to how the Department of Education handles their projects.

Right. So that is a good example. Yes. So the Department of Education in their budget, it's essentially primarily only project by project appropriation. And that's how it used to be with the University as well.

Okay. And we know where we are with that maintenance backlog, so. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Young. Members, any other questions? Seeing none, we'll take a short recess. Recess.

Reconvening the House Committee on Higher Education. We're going to go into decision making. Rep. Keyla, you okay over there? Sorry.

Cut your rounds, Cut your rounds.

All right, Members, again, we have five items on the agenda for today. The first item was Senate Bill 741. This is the one regarding setting up an external Audit Committee to audit UH and the board.

Members, it was pretty clear in the testimony that there are various processes in place to handle audits and this seems to be a pretty well functioning system. So I believe this bill is rather duplicative and unnecessary. So the recommendation here is to defer this measure indefinitely. Members, any discussion? Okay, thank you. Seeing none.

Moving on to the next bill. Senate Bill 1252 SD2 relating to dementia. This bill requires the board to establish a specialized training program to educate healthcare providers on Alzheimer's disease. I think we all agree on the need for this bill. My concern here is it's a little heavy handed in the way it was drafted.

Putting this program within the governing language of the Board of Regents. I'm not sure that's the best way to go about this, but nonetheless, this is an important issue we need to tackle. So what I'd like to do is take up the suggestions from the John A. Burns School of Medicine to serve as kind of a coordinator role.

It's going to be pretty substantial changes in the HD 1 that I'd like to propose. So, Members, what I'll do is. We'd like to do is defer this one to our next agenda on Wednesday, March 19 at 2pm that hearing notice will be filed shortly.

And at that point or before that hearing, what we'll do is circulate a HD 1 for your review. I don't want anyone to have to vote on things blind, so we will circulate that. The intention here, though, again is to adopt the suggestions from Jabsom.

There will be a new preamble that explains the need for training regarding Alzheimer's. And Section 2 will just basically blank out the appropriations in the FTE amount and include a defective date. And we'll see if we can get the Finance Committee to schedule it. Members, any discussion? Seeing none. So SB 1252 SD2 deferred till Wednesday, March 19th.

Next bill. Senate Bill 1502, SD1, relating to, uh, this is the one for faculty positions, programs and facilities for workforce development in the defense sector. Okay. This bill, as we received, was explicit in the number of positions. So Chair would like to move this bill out to keep the discussion going.

Although the appropriations were blank as received by the Committee, just the bill as introduced, it did have a total of roughly $900,000, which might be a heavy ask considering the budget climate we're in, but nonetheless, I'd like to keep this bill moving to the Finance Committee.

So the Chair's recommendation for the HD 1, again noting that it already has blank appropriations, and the HD 1 will be blanking out the FTEs that are found in sections 2 and 4. And we'll make a reference to those position counts in the Committee report for finances consideration.

And they'll also include a new Defective date of 713000 Members. Any discussion? Seeing none. Vice Chair for the vote, please. HD1.

Thank you. Chair voting on SB 1502. SD1. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. [Roll Call] .Thank you, Chair, your recommendation is adopted.

Okay, thank you, Members. Next bill. Senate Bill 1530. This is the one regarding performance based outcomes and budgeting accordingly. Let's see here.

You know, in light of all the concerns at the federal level of what might happen to the University's budget and the various funding streams, I don't believe now is the time to add additional uncertainty by moving into this performance based model.

I understand what the introducers were trying to accomplish, but again, I think we just need to try to aim for stability at this point. And this bill would make things rather chaotic, I feel. So the Chair's recommendation is to defer this measure indefinitely. Members, any discussion? Seeing none. Thank you.

Last bill, SB 1624 ST1, relating to UH this is the one regarding the Renew, Improve or Modernize the RIM process for existing. I'm sorry, limiting the funding to existing projects. Sorry about that. We heard from the University that they benefit from the flexibility of having the RIM funding in this new process that was set out.

The last thing I think we want to do is go back to the method it was before, like, face the same challenges that the Department of Education has with specific line by line project funding. So the Chair's recommendation for this one is to also defer indefinitely. Members, any discussion?

Seeing none and there being no further business for today, this hearing is adjourned. Thank you.

Thank you.