Senate Standing Committee on Transportation and Culture and the Arts

Good afternoon. We're convening the Committee on Transportation and Culture and the Arts on our 3pm agenda here in State Capitol Conference Room 224. We have a number of House bills on our agenda this afternoon, so we'd ask folks to keep your testimony concise.

We'll limit it to two minutes to make sure everyone has an opportunity to provide testimony and so that we can get through all the bills. But we'd like to also ask that, if you haven't submitted your testimony, please do so and we'll include it in the official record.

So that said, up first is House Bill 1422, relating to motor carriers, which exempts community based organizations engaged in community based economic development, providing transportation services from the motor carrier law under certain circumstances. And testifying first on 1422 is the Department of Transportation.

Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair, Members. Ed Sniffen, Hawaii DOT. Stand in support.

Thank you. Up next is the Public Utilities Commission. Thank you. DLNR. Thank you. Testimony in support from the County of Kauai. Hui Maka’āinana o Makana online.

Aloha, Chair. Can you hear me?

Yeah, please proceed.

Yeah, I stand on my written testimony. And just want to add how important this is not only for the Hanalei Initiative and the Hui Maka’āinana o Makana in Hā'ena, but we're working closely with Kealakekua on the other end of the pae ʻāina, and they're very... This is a bill would actually really benefit them as well as other community organizations. So thank you for hearing us today.

Thank you very much. Up next is the Hanalei Initiative online.

Hi. Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify. We stand on our written testimony in support. And I wanted to echo what Uncle Chipper mentioned about the importance of bill and framework it sets up as we look at these opportunities around the state to do the work that we're doing. We're really excited about this opportunity to continue to share these models to other communities. Thank you.

Thank you. And finally we have testimony in support from Hoʻāla Kealakekua Nui Inc. That's all the testimony we have in this measure. Is there anyone else wishing to submit testimony this afternoon? If not, are there questions? Just real quick for the PUC. Hi, thanks.

It seems to be one of those rare circumstances where the interest of most communities seems to align with trying to figure out situations that have been festering for years. And Hāʻena has been one of those examples that has been like a remarkable success story from all accounts that I've heard. But on other islands, we've had issues with tourists, tour buses, and vehicles doing stuff and stopping in places you're not supposed to and all of that.

Are you guys good with the amendments made in the prior committees that sort of described more narrowly the scope of what would qualify in the bill so that it wouldn't allow some of those unintended potential others to take advantage of the intent, I think, which is, I think fairly specific as I understand it.

We do appreciate the clarification, and it does help us in trying to narrow down our work and what we need to do to make sure that certain carriers don't take advantage of this bill.

Okay. Vice Chair.

Is PUC under control at Waipiʻo Valley on Hawaii Island? Okay, just check. Hopefully that it's not part of this program. I don't think that the communities would want them to be exempt. Or it's not a community based because I think those travelers are on tour vans, and hopefully we continue not to allow that for Waipiʻo Valley.

That I'm sure the taro growers down there because that's the only industry down at Waipiʻo Valley. Yeah. Okay. Just confirm. Thank you. And if it's not on the radar, that means that, that they're not allowing tour vents to go down anyway. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chair.

Thanks. Any more questions? Seeing none. Thanks. Let's move on to the next measure on the agenda.

House Bill 1162 relating to motorcycle instruction permits, which requires all applicants for a motorcycle instruction permit to successfully complete a basic rider course approved by DOT and clarifies that no one shall operate a motor vehicle in connection with driving train course course without a valid temporary instruction permit unless it is a motorcycle that has been used for training purposes on an enclosed course.

And Testifying first on HB 1162 is the Department of Transportation.

Thank you. Up next, we have comments from city and county, Honolulu Department of Customer Services. That's all the testimony we have on HB 1162. Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none. Are there any questions? All right. If not, thanks. Let's move on to the next measure.

House Bill 1259 relating to transportation, which specifies that an engineering study is not required to be considered when reducing the maximum speed limit within 10 miles per hour of the current speed limit for that road. And Testifying first on HP 1259 is DOT. Thank you.

We also have testimony support from the Oahu Metropolitan Planning Organization and Opposition from one individual. That's all the testimony we have. Did anyone else want to testify in this measure?

Aloha. Transportation Committee. Angela Melody Young testifying on behalf of CARES in strong support. So for the traffic installment in our neighborhood in Kalihi Kapalama, Council Member Dos Santos Tam helped us build the safety hazard signs outside of Kapalama Elementary School.

And it was two or three years before we actually got the installment to help with safety measures in the school zone. And so for reduced speed limits on roads, such as installing a speed bump with an additional sign to reduce the speed limit because it was at 25, so it got lowered to 15 miles per hour.

This measure can help with expediting the process because DOT will not have to perform an engineering study, which is basically like an extra step in the process to accommodate the planning of the design for safety. So it has very specific duties and responsibilities assigned for each transportation process.

So, for example, to build a roundabout, it requires the HPD to provide data about baseline average of accidents which occur on roads in specific intersections requested to build a safety installment. And so just to kind of be aware of these things that happen as it relates to roads and transportation processes.

I think to speed up and to expedite the process, we're not going to need the engineering study. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to testify in this measure? And I see the MPO sitting there. I didn't have you signed up to testify, but no. Okay. Okay. No one else? Does anyone have questions?

But AMPO did?

They did submit testimony.

They did submit testimony, yes. Thank you.

Okay. Seeing no questions, let's move on to the next measure. Hospital 1260 relating to transportation, which requires a county, basically everybody go to Oahu to establish a summer streets pilot program. Testifying first on 1260 is the Department of Transportation. Thank you. Up next is Department of Health. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. I'm Lola Irvin representing Dr. Kenny Fink for the Department of Health. The Department of Health supports HB 1260. We do ask for an amendment so that it would revert back to the original language so that Oahu could be considered as part of the pilot program. We have also provided footnotes.

We love footnotes. And there are live links on there, so you can see examples of summer streets or play streets or open streets, as they're known of other pilot programs that have happened in Hawaii.

And it's been a way, especially during COVID to safely gather people in neighborhoods and reconnect relationships and provide fiscal activity and to really use the public infrastructure for the community. And so we're so very glad for this bill and hope that it passes. Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony.

Thank you. Up next is Ampo.

Welcome to stance and support when I'm here for any questions.

Thank you. Hawaii Appleseed Center for Law and Economic Justice. Good afternoon.

Aloha chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. My name is Abby Seitz. I'm on here on behalf of Hawaii Appleseed Center for Law and Economic justice. We're standing in support of this Bill HB 1260, which would establish Summer Street's programs. As I outlined in our testimony, these programs have a number of public health and economic benefits.

I'll also say just on a personal level, kind of the number one thing I hear in my work is that folks do not feel safe walking or biking.

And so I think these events are really important for people, especially for younger or older ages to give them an opportunity they may not otherwise even if it is just for a few hours to walk and bike and to experience a roadway in a different way.

So similar to Department of Health, we also offered some suggested amendment to exclude take away the language that would exclude Oahu from benefiting from this Bill. Thank you for this opportunity.

Thank you. Up next is the Hawaii Bicycling Week and support. Sorry. We also have testimony support from the Hawaii Public Health Institute, Keiki Injury Prevention Coalition, Get Fit Kauai and four individuals in support, one with comments and one opposed. That's all the testimony we have in this measure. Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none.

Are there any questions?

Chair, it's kind of interesting that probably Oahu wants to be on but I can see where I guess the introducer came from a Big island rep. But maybe because Oahu you can't close off the streets with your many traffic problems here on Shore island and too many cars.

Maybe they can find a street to close probably maybe in Kaka'ako, I guess when you're off to Ala Moana or wherever.

But it's kind of interesting but I'm kind of glad that at least maybe use this as a pilot and if it goes well then Oahu can join in following year after you receive the report DOT from the counties because the counties have to respond first if they're accepting this program.

Do you want to bring dear to you?

Yeah. Well it's going to be interesting because have you had with my Hilo colleague Chris Todd, rep Todd, anyway but this is a nice healthy exercise program and gathering for the Kids. I think so.

Events that the city put on during COVID was pretty good. And the community input from those events were pretty good. I think the introducer and his. This body had put in guardrails to ensure that we can consider what the impacts are going to be. But we already support marathons. We already support other walks.

So I cannot see why we cannot support something like this and control the impacts to the community.

Yeah. And another thing just to offer like Hawaii county during the summer, they already have the county programs for the kids. So maybe you can suggest that they tie it in with their parks and recreation program that. That manages to do the activities during the summer. Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you. Sorry. Yes. Wouldn't mind saying. Just make a comment. Yeah. And I remember when this bill came up, the companion version of it, the community that I represent, the Waianae coast. And we're not necessarily there as far as totally agree, freeing up some. Some road space.

But maybe Paul could know it. That's all. Maybe.

But I'm confident with this Director that we're going soon be ready to portion off one of those lanes to be able to promote, you know, just more, more activity, more exercise. But thank you so much, Ed, for all that you're doing.

Yeah.

Oh, thank you.

Further discussion. Thank you. If not, thanks, everybody. Let's move on to the next measure. House Bill 177 relating to civil ID cards, which makes the issuance or renewal of a civil ID card free of charge. And testifying first on 177 is the Department of Transportation.

Thank you. Chair do stands in opposition.

Thank you. Attorney General on. Oh, good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Rachel Jordan, Deputy Attorney. General with the Office of the Attorney General. We already provided our written comment and we're available for any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Department of Customer Services, City and County of Honolulu in opposition. Waianae Coast Comprehensive Health center in support. And we also have signed up to testify. zero. One individual, Taituli Tafai in support. And we have submit a testimony from two other individuals. That's all the testimony we have on HB 177.

Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none.

Department of Transportation, in your testimony you had stated that eliminating these fees would take away from public services. What kind of services?

Just in General if we're gonna have to make up because right now it costs about 1.3 million for us to run the program to service the number of IDs that are necessary per year. If we remove that.

If everybody doesn't have to pay for it, we've got to find another 1.3 million to take care of that program and we've got to take it away from other programs. So of course we would prioritize.

We try to minimize the impact to the public, but it would come out of that just from overall perspective, when we start looking at these types of programs, giving a blanket waiver to everything, very difficult to support. There's already a homeless provision. So if you're homeless, you don't have to pay for it.

There are, there are exemptions for specific classes. I'd rather see something like that because we can justify the changes versus just.

A blanket exemption and people with disabilities. I think it's not charging.

Right, right.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thanks. Oh, I guess. Sorry, Ed, since Sydney County is not here. Real quick, just following up on that. The current cost according to testimony anyway for a civil ID is $40. For an eight year period. Yes. I'm gonna do it in a while, but right now what's the cost for a driver's license for a similar period?

That's hard question. I don't know. I gotta check. I'll check on that. But I think it's about the same. It's. It's nearly the same amount.

Yeah.

Okay, thank you.

Okay. Any other questions on 177? No. If not, thanks everyone. Let's move on to the next measure. House Bill 862 relating to transportation services, which authorizes the use of motor coaches, small buses and vans for school bus services under certain conditions. And Testifying first on 862 is the Department of Transportation.

Thank you, Chair. Stand in support.

Thank you. Next is State Council on Developmental Disabilities. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of. The Committee, good afternoon. My name is Suman Gorham. I'm an intern at the Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities. The council stands in strong support of this measure. Reliable and accessible school transportation is essential for students with developmental disabilities, ensuring that they have equal access to education.

For students who use wheelchairs, for example, features like lifts and securement systems are not optional, they are necessary. Expanding transportation options is a positive step, but without accessible vehicles, students with mobility issues may be excluded. To truly. To ensure true inclusivity, we urge the Bill to require a portion of the new vehicles be accessible.

Thank you for your time and thank you for the opportunity to submit testimony.

Thank you. Next is the Department of Education with comments. Thank you, Oahu Metropolitan Planning Organization. Thank you. Larry Verret from the Pearl City Neighborhood Board.

Okay, well, please come forward if, if you, if you so wish.

Yes, I submitted testimony anyway, so I should be on the list. Yes, my name is Dan Smith. Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members.

Aloha.

The I. So the Chairman Vera did ask me to speak on behalf of the neighborhood board which as part of its policy adoptions has encouraged improved school bus service and the making permanent the emergent governor's emergency orders on school buses will give the DOE more options.

And I would also add that increased choice of vehicles maybe will encourage some creativity in terms of solving the school bus shortage and provide a better service. I know too often I'm involved in driving myself. It's not a huge burden.

But, but the school busing does need to be improved and more flexible because for example, where I live in Pearl City, there is a bus, the Highlands Intermediate Bus, that could serve Palisades elementary but doesn't because of, let's say, bureaucratic lethargy. So with that, I thank you and I strongly urge you to pass that bill.

Thank you very much. We also have testimony and support from Charmaine Duran from the Pearl City Neighborhood Board, Hawaii Appleseed Center for Law and Economic justice and Hawaii Association of Independent Schools and Roberts Hawaii. And then we have a couple individuals signed up to testify. Daniel Smith.

Oh, okay.

Sorry. Thank you. And Kaili Swan on Zoom.

Not available online.

Chair, thank you. And we have additional testimony and support from six individuals. That's all the testimony we have on this measure. Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Please come forward.

Angela Melody Young, CARES in strong support. So because the school bus contract was canceled, it caused public discourse. So this legislation will help expand providers to help drive within the DOE school system to address underlying systemic flaws of barriers to contract contracting with companies to accomplishing a state concern. Right.

So the state is trying to contract with private companies to build up like a private public partnership to address community concerns. Right. To accomplish together these goals. And so this will help because it's expanding provisions of more companies that you can get bus drivers with for the DOE school system. So this is a very popular topic.

Apparently we have a lot of parents and kids who need bus drivers in the community. So I'm in strong support. Thank you.

Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on HP862? Seeing none. Are there any questions?

Department of Transportation. Sorry, Director, I'm not sure if this was your folks Bill that you initiated, but do you happen to know where the funding is coming from for this initiative.

Not, not our Bill. Okay. We didn't initiate, but we definitely support the funding would be coming from DOE as well to run this program. But the Bill helps more than just doe.

When you look at the schools that it would support, whether it be the independent schools or even colleges, it would allow for different utilization of resources to make sure that there's sufficient support for the students. When I talk to doe, it will allow them to reestablish a bunch of routes that they had to eliminate previously.

When I talked to schools, it could make it more efficient. Right now they're double shifting so a bus will run out at 5:30 to pick up from far distances, come back and then run again for short distances. So we could potentially remove some vehicles from the roadway and also make sure everything's a lot smoother for the kids.

Okay, so the priority would be for students.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Okay, very good. Thank you. And I think they're. The state contract with DOE is with Roberts.

Yeah, I believe so. Yeah.

And I think there's some. Yeah. And it seems like they're supporting this too because this would allow them to get the smaller vehicles as well.

And I believe Roberts has some of the independent schools as well. So the resources are being pulled in.

Both directions and I think that's the best thing that DOE can do because otherwise we'll have to go buy new buses every what, 10 years or so. Contracting the services out I think is the best vehicle and decision making for taking care of our kids transportation. Thank you so much.

And then just really quick comment on the coast, on the Waianae coast, a lot of the trends seem is due to a lack of transportation. So I'd really like to see this thing move all the way through and hopefully be able to supply some of those services that have been lacking so our kids can get to school.

So. Yeah. Thank you very much. 100% agree.

Thank you.

Thanks. So just note apparently one of our testifiers who we had called earlier is now online. So why don't we go to Kaili Swan.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Committee Members. I'm a strong supporters manager because school transportation one of top priority in a Department education in the past they usually use a whole lot of car program to take the kids to school since there's a shorter shortage on the bus bus drivers.

So please let me please can you please pass this Bill. Thanks for my testimony. Sorry for being late.

Thank you very much. Okay. Is there any further discussion or questions? If not, thank you.

Let's move on to the next measure, House Bill 667, relating to transportation, which requires the Department of Transportation or appropriate county Department when disposing of a deceased cat or dog from a public roadway to scan the animal for a microchip, record the information and report it accordingly. And Testifying first on HB667 is the Department of Transportation.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Up next is the Hawaiian Humane Society. Good afternoon.

Hello. Vice Chair, Committee Member Stephanie Kendrick with the Hawaiian Humane Society. You have our testimony and strong support of this measure. I just want to highlight this is an issue that we've been working on for a long time, getting lost pets home, ideally. And the Legislature was good enough in 2022 to pass mandatory microchipping statewide.

So we've seen an incredible increase in the percentage of pets that have this kind of identification.

And in the tragic event that a pet is lost on our roadways, we would love to be able to access that information and communicate it back to the pet owners so at least they can have some closure when grieving the loss of their family Member. So we are excited for your support.

We're really grateful for the Department of Transportation support for this measure, and we look forward to collaborating with them and with the county agencies given that the appropriations have been removed from the bill. I would love it if the Committee could pass this out with a good date to make sure that it gets through the entire process.

And I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. Thank you.

I have a question.

Thank you.

Hold on. Hold on just a second. Let's get through the rest of the testifiers and we'll come right. Okay. Yeah. We also have supported testimony from Animals for Action for Animals, Hawaii Animal Interfaith alliance in Britain, Lucky Paws Animal foundation, and 23 individuals. That's all the testimony we have on this measure.

Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none. Vice Chair.

Yes, either Stephanie or Director. Some of the counties don't they work with the contracts with the Police Department to pick up dot. Do you do all of the pickups on all the islands on injured animals on the roadways? Because I thought Hawaii county, because it can't be there for a great length of time.

So I thought the Police Department were part of the program to getting rid of or picking up.

It differs between districts. Some of the districts, we pick up other districts, Humane Society helps us. In other districts, the police assist as well.

Okay. So this should also. I'm surprised that the Police Department is not here to adding comments because, you know that has been, I think, a sore thumb on their part. But they have been pretty much working with the counties, so this should be directed to them as well because your highway people are not there all the time.

We'll work with them, though. You do. We've already purchased 30 scanners to make sure that we have enough for the chips. Yeah. And for PDs if they need them, because there's like 50 bucks each. They're not that expensive to make sure we had enough. Sufficient amount for all of our partners.

Okay. All right. Yeah. Thanks for all you do.

Yeah. On Oahu, the partner, the county partner is Enterprise Services. So I know DOT already has a plan to work with them. Thanks.

Thank you. Just real quick. Oh, you're both there. This is probably a few questions. Not appropriate for lunchtime, so I think it's okay asking this, but sometimes it's not easy to identify what parts of the animal are where. How does the scanning act? Do you just scan what's there? Yeah, so to speak.

No, no. The scanners are pretty effective, so we don't anticipate that being a problem. But we are grateful to the folks for being willing to do it because it can be an unpleasant task for sure.

Okay, so just kind of tag teaming on that. So what if you only find like a leg and the chip is normally.

Placed there, so you probably wouldn't have a positive result. Okay.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, thanks.

All right, moving on to the next measure.

It's a good thing we don't put chips onto the. To the pigstats in our country.

House Bill 960, relating to transportation, which increases the maximum value of a capital advancement contract that may be executed by the Department of Transportation with a legislative approval, etc. Testifying first on HB960 is the Department of Transportation. Thanks. Hawaii Island Chamber of Commerce in support. Chamber of Commerce, Hawaii.

Yes. Good afternoon. Chair. My chair, Member of the K. Pol Congress, sending support or testimony here for any questions.

Thank you. And young brothers in support. That's all the testimony we have on HB960. Does anyone else wish to testify in this measure? Seeing none. Are there any questions? Okay, thanks. Let's move on to the next measure on the agenda.

House Bill 228 relating to license plates, which authorizes counties to adopt rules for use of electronic license plates and for intentionally obscuring a license plate with a cover or shield and prohibiting the use of license plate flipping devices. And testifying first on HB 228 is the Department of Transportation.

We stand in support.

Thank you. Next is Department of Law Enforcement in support Department of Customer Services City Honolulu. Comments? We have two individuals in opposition. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on HB 228? See none. Are there any questions? Okay with that.

Then why don't we move on to HB 1156 relating to special facility revenue bonds, which increases the total principal amount of special special facility revenue bonds that may be issued by the Department of Transportation for harbor improvements. And testifying first is dot.

Thank you, Chair. Stand in support.

Thank you. We also have testimony and support from Al Qahi Energy and Hawaii Harbor Users Group. That's all the testimony we have. Is there anyone else wishing to testify in this measure? Seeing none. Are there any questions? Okay. Seeing none. That is the last measure on our agenda for today.

Give us just one Sec to get composed here and we'll go into decision making. Just going to do 14:22 is 12 minutes with a minutes 62. We're gonna defer GM on 4:50 Thursday.

On that day. Thursday.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let's just take a quick recess just to get our vote sheets in order and we'll be right back. All right. Reconvening the Committee on Transportation, Culture and the arts on our 3pm agenda. Thank you for the patience. Get our papers in order here. We're ready to go into decision making.

So up first is House Bill 1422 relating to motor carriers. I'd like to recommend moving us forward just I think per. I think one of the questions raised about appropriate use on the neighbor islands.

Just adding in a three year sunset just to ensure in case there are unintended consequences in places like the Vice Chair had mentioned on the Big island, there's an opportunity to come back and rectify the situation. But otherwise hope this goes forward and looks like there's been some great progress.

So let's go on to consumer protection for further consideration. So any discussion on that?

Okay. Chair's recommendation for the Committee on Transportation and Culture and the Arts. Chair's recommendation on HB 1422, House Draft 2 to pass with amendments. Chair. Aye. Vice Chair goes aye. Senator Elefante. Aye. Senator Konuha. Senator DeCorte. Aye. Measures adopted. Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Moving on to House Bill 1162 relating to motorcycle instruction permits. I'd like to move this forward to the Judiciary Committee with amendments. Just recommending that we'd address the comments from city and county. Just adding the city and county to the in vetting and approving a rider training program. So they're clearly aligned.

But should I think take care of the city and counties concerns? And then secondly, we'll note in the Committee report the need from the city and county just to push off the effective date when a final effective day is put in place so it gives them time to ramp up their process. Any discussion or questions?

Chair's recommendation on HB 1162 House Draft 2 to pass with amendments with five members present. Any voting with reservations? Any no votes hearing non measures adopted, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. Next is House Bill 1259 relating to transportation but to defer DM on this till Thursday the 13th. This is Thursday at 3:02pm here in this room just to take a look at some of the questions that were raised about reductions of speed limits, making sure we get that right.

For the next measure, HB 1260 relating transportation similarly, we'll defer Diem till Thursday at 3:02pm here in this room as well as HB 177 relating to civil ID cards. Hopefully we can get a couple answers. Curious about the pricing on but people are paying for driver's licenses and other things. Yeah. Oh, it's the same.

Okay, return to that. An HB862 similarly will defer DM till this Thursday the 13th at 3 o'clock or 2pm here in this room. Okay. So up next is Hospital 667 relating to transportation. Like to recommend moving this forward as is any discussion if not Vice Chair.

Chair's recommendation on HB 667 House Draft 1 to pass unamended with five Members present. Any voting with reservations. Any no votes hearing? None. Vice Chair Lee measure is adopted.

Thank you. And up next is House Bill 960 ruling transportation. We'll defer this as well to Thursday at 3:02pm here in this room. House Bill 228 relating to license plates.

Also defer until Thursday here in this room 3 or 2pm and finally HB 1156 relating to special facility revenue bonds to recommend moving this forward to the ways and means. Committee as is any discussion? None. Vice Chair. HB 1156.

Chair's recommendation to pass HB 1156 House Draft 1 to pass with to pass unamended with five Members present. Any voting with reservations? Any no votes? Measures adopted Mr. Chair.

Thank you. That's the last measure on our agenda. Take 48 hours here to try and chat with some of our stakeholders and colleagues on the rest of the measures. Don't anticipate any problems but otherwise we'll be back Thursday.

And with that, we're adjourned.