Senate Standing Committee on Higher Education

Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the Committee on Higher Education. We are here Today is Thursday January 2323 room 229. And we are here as an informational briefing to follow up on our budget for the University of Hawaii that we had with Ways and me and I just want to say happy New Year.

It is going to be a good new year. We have a new President and hopefully we're going to have a new vision for the University of Hawaii.

And I want to try to put to rest some of these lingering things that have plagued us over the last so many years and hopefully we can move on into the new vision that the new President is going to provide for us and for the border region.

So with that it's looking very hopeful for this new year and years to come. With that I want to go ahead and start off my Members here for the Higher Education Committee has not changed from last year. We have on my left Senator Fukunaga on my right Senator Favela.

Senator Choi Hashimoto is in the housing meeting right next door. He will be coming in and unfortunately Senator Kidani is home ill today. But she did leave us with a folder with questions in it. So we will be sprinkling her questions in with some of ours as we get started. Okay.

With that I want to start off with athletics and we can whoever is going to come up and answer questions.

We did have questions from last time and if you remember what they were, we can go ahead and if you want to update us, I think we talked about the budget for the University and the shortfall that might impact the program and so forth. So who's going to start introduce yourself.

When you Michael Bruno, Provost IUH Manoa.

Morning Good afternoon Chair and Members. Lois Manning, Athletics Director acting athletics Director. Your question was about the shortfall.

Is that what you're yes, we want to follow up we didn't quite get into the meat of it during the and so I think you said you folks had a plan. So is that something that you can discuss with us?

So as far as the shortfall is concerned.

Tiffany Kuroka, Assistant AD for Business Operations regarding the reported shortfall from the 2024 NCAA Financial Report. There's a last time I was explaining that that includes the foundation as well as 1.6 million in hazard pay. And this is a spreadsheet that has the breakdown between for the last.

Committee want to hand it to them and she passed.

So I chose for.

No, she's going to give you stuff to pass out.

Yeah, yeah, sorry there's there's like six packets in there. It's three pages each. Yeah. So for the 2024 year, the Department only the state funds had a 279,000 net income and then 1.57 hazard pay. And then the foundation had a 820,000 loss. Okay.

So we're looking at section one.

So section one is the state funds. Okay. For fiscal year 2024 and till 2018.

And so the loss.

So in 2024 it was 279 net income.

Okay. But then on the bio.

Yeah. So then with the 1.57 hazard pay and the 828,000 loss comes up to the 2.1 chair.

If I might. We made a decision at Manoa that for those units that essentially have no G funded positions and therefore will not benefit from any state support towards the hazard pay agreement, the, that the Manoa campus will make up for those deficits.

And so the intent is for the Manoa campus reserves to help the athletics Department and cover that deficit.

But we actually didn't have a deficit in the. That's right.

That's what I'm trying to say.

In that year there was, but there. If you look at, you know, fiscal year 2022 to 2018, there were losses in those years. So the univers Manoa did help to cover those losses.

Okay, go ahead and continue. I'm sorry, you want to continue?

Zero, no, no. So that's what this spreadsheet is, is to talk about, to show the differentiation between the state funds and the foundation.

When you say foundation, the foundation provides.

That's the uh, foundation. Right.

Do they provide a consistent, consistent revenues or is it.

It's like when the public donates money, it has to go into the uh, foundation. A lot of times it goes into sports specific accounts like football or basketball, and then they spend it, you know, for what they need that's not covered by the Department.

So you add up all of those, all of those monies from the foundation. Do you have a breakdown on what sports get? I mean, I would think football gets the ball.

Yeah. Yeah. But so some years, you know, they, they spend more than they receive that year because they might have a build up from prior years donation. They could spend more than what they bring in.

Or some years they might spend less than what they bring in because like, say during COVID years they couldn't really spend much because they couldn't really do much under Covid restrictions.

But like this past year, one of the main reasons that there was a deficit was a lot of the teams went on international trips, which they can do every three years. And so, you know, they spent more in 2024 from funds that might have been accumulated in 2223, but they only.

Spent what they had. Or they spend more than.

I mean, they won't spend more than they have in the foundation accounts, but they could have balances from prior years that's rolled over.

The money's never lapsed. No. And the foundation continues to, in addition, continues to put in those funds.

Zero. I mean, the funds come in from donations from the public foundation.

So we don't get reports from the foundation, which I think there might be bills, that's wanting to find out what exactly is that they're actually raising and how much money is actually going to the University.

Yeah, I could do a report by. For this report I do. For the nca. I have to break it down by each sport every year and to consolidate with the Department for the NCAA's report. So I have that information if you do want it. Okay, I can do that.

If you can provide that to us, that would be helpful because we. I just learned yesterday that monies from the. What is that? The film industry tax credits, the 0.1% for workforce development is paid not directly to the film school and so forth. It goes into the foundation and then the foundation gives the money out. Right.

So that's something we're going to be talking about. So. So that is confusing because I was under impression the foundation is only monies that they raise on their own. And so to find that state funding and state taxes are being paid to the foundation and then to then parcel out.

I didn't know that.

So you didn't know that either? Yeah, I just learned that yesterday from hta. Fortunately, we don't get any. Yeah, we don't have that. Well, I just. Just, you know, who does the accounting to make sure that monies that are donated for the University and for particular sports are actually being.

You know, I know for athletics, I sign off on every single deposit and distribution from the Department. So I know definitely it's being used for athletics because I sign off on.

No, what I'm saying is that how do you know Mr. XYZ give more money for sports and that the foundation. And I'm not saying that they purposely not giving you all the money, but for accounting errors and so forth that we're not getting or you're not getting all of the funds. I mean, is there an accounting system?

I can't speak for a foundation. If they were Here, I'm sure they would say they, they, their number one rule is to abide by the donor's wishes. So.

I understand, but there's always, always got to be checks and balances.

Yes, I agree.

Okay, Members, any questions on. On what was passed out to you as far as the deficits of the Department? You know, we asked for your charter commercial travel, and we were given a document that I could barely read, so I can barely translate.

And you know, I mean, I hope, and oftentimes University does that they'll give us a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't make any sense to us. And so then we have to go in and, and ask you. So Members, I think you have that. Did you copy? Okay, but this is what was, this is what was provided.

Yes, and yes, this is football commercial air. Football charter air, total football air only. And there's all kinds of numbers on this. And so Provost, if you can read this, I, I'll, I'll, you know, give you $5. Sorry, you can change this.

I do have it and I actually put together that spreadsheet. So.

Yeah, so in the future, you know, when we asked for stuff, if you guys can give it to us in, in layman's terms, that would be helpful.

So what I, what I did was it's kind of hard from year to year because every year, depending on where we're traveling, it might be commercial the whole way or it could be like a lot of times they'll do commercial to like say LA or something.

And then from LA to say Boise, we might have to do a small charter plane there and then back to small charter back to LA and LA back.

This year we decided that we are gonna charter the entire way so we didn't have to make stops and use commercial at all, which helped us to save on travel time.

Yeah, well, that's what we just wanted to know. We wanted to know because I think it makes sense. I know some of these flights and depending on the airlines, you gotta make stops and then there's delays and you know, you layovers and so forth. And sometimes there's 34 hour layovers and it's very taxing.

And I can imagine on our athletes.

And then they also have to like maybe go a day earlier and come back a day later. So we saved on the hotel costs and meal costs.

And that's what we wanted a simple comparison of, you know, if we were to do commercial versus what we're doing charter at the end of the day, do we save, do we save money? And maybe we won't. Maybe we might break even, but. Or it might be a little bit more.

But what are the benefits and how did we benefit from it?

So I compared the 2023 schedule, and I used the 2024 costs of the charters, and then minusing out the days that we're saving and all that. And for the five trips. Because this year we went on five trips. The first.

Comparing it to the first five trips of 2023, we saved, I think it was 87,000 by doing the charters instead of going the commercials and the charges in between.

Okay, so is there a policy now that you folks will look at and compare charters before you decide? That would be.

So we're gonna. We're. We're gonna. Every year we go to different cities, so it really depends on what cities we go to that determines how much the charters are. So we're evaluating now charter prices and getting quotes for charter flights. We would. We would like to continue it, but we need to do the financial analysis first.

And it's. It's only football that we're talking about, right? It's only football. The other teams are too small to act.

Yeah. Because it's a large number. Number. And the hotel rooms are large. Now, when they do hotel rooms, do they bulk up, partner up, or is it single rooms? Or how do you. Zero, it's.

It's two per room. Two student athletes per room.

Per room, yeah. Okay. So that. Yeah, it's still. What. How many do we take? 80.

It's about 120. Total travel party and about 74 student athletes.

Okay. So even if they double up, that's still.

It's a large group.

And depending on where you go, those. That's expensive. Yes. And then there's meals. On top of that. There's meals.

There's missed class time. Right.

And then there's transportation, too, because you got to bus them to the. Correct. But you'll still have bus. But if you go from the airport, I mean, I don't know, they get a night's rest or what. Depending on the timing. Right.

Yeah. The biggest savings is. Is on the hotel and the per diem and the meals.

Okay, Members, any questions on that? Okay, go ahead.

Thanks, athletic Director, for being here. Question. On the. The sheet that you gave us, this is actually a really good breakdown of your revenue and expenses. So I guess for FY24, your potential loss is a 2.1. Right. So then I think you're coming in for 25 for. Is that how you guys projected out your Request to Wham.

And how much that lump sum is going to be for your supplement your request in the budget this coming year for athletics.

So I couldn't really answer on how we projected out the request Wham. Because I wasn't involved. But I think that the 2.1 is negative of the 1.5 in hazard fee. Correct.

Right. The universities, I think we're looking at half a million. So it's much less than.

Okay, yeah. So how did we come up with the number that you. 3.2. The 3.2 that's in the GUPS budget.

That is a carryover from the year prior where we've asked for 3.2 million to subsidize our operating budget.

Okay. So I guess what we're trying to figure out is what is that attributed to? Because I think what I'm trying to drill down to is what is the cost driver that we're trying to figure out? Right.

What is the thing that we need to really understand that we know because expenses are going up and we just need to know why. Why is it going up? Is it just General expenses are going up? Is it salaries? Is it. What is it that we're up against to get us back into the black?

Because at some point we don't want to put you back to the negative on how you were and then somebody has to come in and wipe you out. So I think we have to be crystal clear on what your cost drivers are and how do we stop that from happening into the future.

So I think a lot of it is related to our uncontrollable costs, like and your unique costs. So travel is one of them. Right. Travel costs are going up by about 15%. So that's one of them. And we can't really anticipate, but we can add 15% to the ask. So that's one of them.

The other one is scholarship costs are going up as well. And we can also talk about.

But does this include scholarship costs? Isn't that scholarship comes from the. From the system or the.

Not all of it. We are subsidized by the University with special talent waivers and tuition in state tuition waivers and then some cash as well.

About 2 million a year. But that doesn't. Does not cover.

I'm sorry, what portion of your budget of your. That the Ledge provides actually go to scholarships.

And they might want to give us a breakdown of where those monies go because once they go into the base budget, which is why we hesitate to putting in the base budget because you come in asking for it until we know what are these expenditures? Because once it goes in, then it's lost.

As far as we know as to what these funds are, we have never used legislative funds.

I was going to say it was dedicated to women's sports, but what was.

Just reported was that some of these monies. He's asking you how do you guys come up with the ass and you're talking about scholarships. So that's why I'm asking.

I apologize. I was trying to explain the costs that are going on, the increases.

No, I guess if you don't have it now, that's fine. But I think we need a better understanding of what are the cost drivers and I guess we'll reiterate ask in Wham, what is the plan to get us into the black?

I think the there's a lot of things that we say, okay, we're going to raise more money, that's one thing. But is that really going to get us into the black? I think as I asked in the WAM briefing as well, what was the ask, the other ask of the positions?

Because I have not heard from you why those positions converting to G funds are important. So I'm assuming it's not a part of this plan that you're looking for to get you back into the black. But it was in the governor's request.

But this wasn't given to the Governor, so I just assume it wasn't articulated to the Governor how important it is. Which is fine if that's not a part of the plan. We just need to know that though.

Yeah, I think the ask for the positions I think was 46 positions was purely an athletics ask and it's to be budget relieving to move it from the special Fund to the General Fund. Right, right.

And I get that. That's why I'm asking, what is it? What are the cost drivers that we need to figure out that to get that. Is that a part of the plan? Is that mission critical to get UG funded if we're going to see athletics to operate in the black?

And if it's not, if we don't give that to you, then you should tell us. Okay, then you're going to expect us to operate in the red. But you need to clearly articulate that to myself and the rest of the Members. What is it that we are trying to do to help athletics?

And that's my concern is we just need to know what those cost drivers are and what the plan is to get you figure that all out.

Understood, Senator. And we can definitely do that. In the plan that you asked for in the last meeting, shouldn't that plan.

Also be with the Board of Regents? Shouldn't the Board of Regents be asking and wanting to find out before you folks approve this budget that they're asking for as to how did they arrive at that? Or you guys don't care. Just thank you.

Senators, for the Gably region, for this particular 3.2. We did ask about that and it was as we understand it, for existing positions as well as, yeah, we understand.

What they're asking it for. Going on the same line as Senator Hashimoto is, what are the drivers and what is the, the plan and what is it? So, you know, going forward and not just, okay, we want export positions for this, this is this. But are they still going to be in the black?

Are they going to go in the red? I would think that's something that the regions, as they look at the budget, would question.

Yeah, I think.

We can definitely consult with the regions.

So when you come up with that plan, I think that's something that needs to be, you know, it's so it's like you folks come to us, you guys go to the Governor, you go to the regents, you have them just, okay, this budget. But all the details come out here.

When some of that details should be coming out in the Board of Regents, then it would save us a lot of asking. Right. I'm sure you guys don't want to come to us all the time.

So I'm just helping you folks along the line as how going forward that we can make this process a little bit more friendly and easier to deal with.

Understood. Understood. Thank you.

Okay, he's got to go vote. They too got to go vote. Okay, can you update us on what's happening with the practice field with the track? Because we've had concerns raised about that and the women especially impacting the women's programs. So can you.

Sure. I can't give you an up to date today status of what the. Where the track project is, but I can tell you that our sport administrator, our track sport administrator does meet weekly with the project delivery team and the contractor to get updates on where the project is and any challenges that they may be facing.

The track coaches and the soccer coaches are also invited to sitting on those meetings. If, if they're unable to attend, then the sport administrator does update them. There have been delays beyond our control. I know there's been a lot of rain that have caused delays that has also caused frustration with the track team.

And understood frustration and shared frustration. But I'm not sure. I couldn't really answer to how where the project is or anything like that. But I.

What's the budget and where did that funding come from for these projects?

Good morning or Good afternoon, Senator. Jan Govea, Vice President for Administration. Are you asking about the funding for the track and soccer project? That funding came from tuition and fees.

And how much is was that?

What is that? Roughly 15 million.

Okay, so are you able to give us a complete picture as to what has been the cost for Ching Fuel in addition to the to the arena itself, the add ons and then the cost to have to move the field, the cost to have to re level everything else and all of that because it's been so piecemeal.

And where did this funding come from?

Yeah, yes, we are. We can pull all that together comprehensively for both the Qing complex upgrades plus the tracking soccer field project.

So I understand RIM monies were used for cheap. Initially.

Initially, yes.

And what was that about? zero, you can think about it because it'll come. You can tell me that. Okay, okay. Cip. Okay, okay, I'll have that.

I'll try to have that by then.

That's enough. Okay. So in the meantime, where are these teams practicing? Where are they.

So we've gone out to the high schools to try and arrange practice soccer, was able to arrange something with mid pack. So they've been practicing at mid pack. And track and field has been to different places. A year ago, they were at St. Louis. And St. Louis has a lot of usage up there at that field.

And we're trying to work out times, ideal times, because it has to be conducive with our track team's practice class schedule. So we're trying to work that out. They were also at Iolani last year, and they are still at Iolani on most weekdays. And then also. No, we're not paying for that. Correct.

And at Kalani High School as well, who just built a new track, they have been willing to help us on Saturday, certain Saturdays as well.

So let me ask this to the Regents. When you guys decided to go ahead with Ching complex and when you decided to not go to. And I know you as chair, did advocate that we get a waiver from NCAA for the addition, and they have since let up on that requirement that we have that 15,000 seats. Right.

No longer required, which we should have gone and probably would have gotten the waiver. But when you guys did that, did you folks consider the impact to all the other sports and did, uh. Did you guys decide impact to the other sports that it would have.

Where would they practice and how it would impact them when that decisions were made?

Yeah, I wasn't part of the conversation, but I'm sure.

But shouldn't you have that. I'm sure that that happened. Isn't that Manoa. Didn't that fall under.

Not under me, no. Not the Athletics Department? Not the athletics, no. But I'm sure this was part of the discussion. I remember hearing about the practice field, the absence of a practice field because of the renovations of Ching, because that field had always been the practice field for football.

It was not an ideal situation, and I don't think anybody anticipated what would have.

I mean, what happened back 2000, December of 2020.

I mean, you know, nobody. We didn't know that they were going to shut down.

Okay.

So, yes, given that we didn't know all that, but once Ching Field was built and they had the 10,000 seats, we knew already, right? We knew what we had.

We knew what was the cost going to be, not just in funding, but what the cost would be to impact sports when we add on the 5,000 more seats or whatever that was. 6,000 more seats. And again, you know, it seems like.

And I'm hoping as we go forward that you're not looking at the big picture and that you have this tunnel vision is that, well, we need to do this because NCAA and I remember watching the Board of Regents meeting and I remember Gabe Lee asking that question about, did you folks, did the athletics problem.

Did the AD go in and ask NCAA for a waiver? And they said no, they didn't officially ask for one. And so we said, you could use Murakami Stadium for seats, you could use Sheriff Stand Sheriff for seats. Because other schools have done that for temporary. So did we do that instead of spending the money?

And they did. They did not go in for the waiver, which again, we didn't look at all of the opportunities that were there to save money and not impact the other sports. But it was not something that the Administration pushed for.

I think that's right. Yeah.

So how do we keep ourselves or the University from making those kinds of decisions that impacts everybody? And the cost for a temporary ad, which I'm not sure you've had, of the games that was held there, how many actually sold out, sold out games there? You don't have to answer that question. I do have the question though.

Isn't that one of the main responsibilities for athletic Director is to bring in funds, funding. So is there a record of how much funds each previous athletic Director brought in specifically?

I'm sure there is.

You don't have. Do you have that? No. Okay. Perhaps you can provide that to us. Because my understanding is that is the most important, one of the most important roles of the AD is to be able to bring in new monies for sports.

Because obviously we just don't continue to have that kind of funding from the state and now with nil, even more. So it is imperative that you get an AD that have that kind of reach, that have that ability, that have the contacts to do that.

So as we're analyzing them, I think that would be one of the things that the Board of Regents need to really look at.

It's very troubling that in the most crucial time we have now during the budget, we don't have an AD with a long term vision, just as we didn't have a President with a long term vision because he was retiring out. And so we have this budget. It's very difficult for us because there's no vision in this budget.

And similarly, we're talking about sports and athletics being at such a pivotal time in the whole country as to what's going on. And we don't have a leader that's a long term leader that we can talk to and find out where we're going. Right.

I agree, Chair. I'm sure that once the search gets underway, that there'll be an assessment of what has happened, let's say, over the last five years in terms of fundraising and what are the goals. I mean, that would have to be stated to any of the candidates. This is our expectation.

My concern is on the time of the search, because this was brought up for the President, we were concerned here about the budget being prepped by the outgoing President, that the President coming in wouldn't be able to answer questions on the budget because it wasn't that person's budget.

And, you know, the regents tried to assure us that we were going to try to have a prison by the fall, and then by November. And then we end up not getting a President until January 1st.

And then on the heels of that, we had an athletic Director that was just newly hired, about going on two years, and then that one gets fired by the person that hired him just before the budget. So. And here we are.

I mean, that's very troubling and it doesn't necessarily bode well for athletics and our support of athletics. So I just want the public to know that, you know, that these are. These are issues that we are facing. And we look to you folks because you folks are the ones that is going to have to implement the programs.

I share your concerns, and I'm up here ultimately because these are our students. They are students first. They're student athletes, so. Exactly. Anything that impacts them.

So we can have a record of. And I know the last AD was in here long, but how much money did he bring in the public Director before that? How much money did he bring in over his time? And I'm not talking about, you know, continued monies, I'm talking about new monies. Yeah. Yes. New donations.

Okay, thank you. Okay. Yeah. Senator Favela.

Yeah, I just get a couple of questions as we're talking about analytics. I just wanted to know who made. I'm not sure if this question was asked because I was in another hearing, but since I have it on my people, I want to ask the question. So anyway, who made the decision to extend the football coach's contract?

I did. Yeah. Was it your decision or you were directed to do it? It was my decision. Okay. Can I. Why. What was that decision made?

I felt like it was in the best interest of the football program and the University to extend him by one year.

So when you guys. I mean, this is the reason of transparency and continuing to hit little bit roadblocks on there.

I have nothing against the coaches or whatever, just the process of things that we're doing at the University that, you know, don't get me wrong, I had a lot of problems with President Lassner because he used to do a lot of things himself. He would talk to himself, he counseled himself.

He was the chancellor and the president, so he would talk to himself a lot. I'm just kind of disturbed that we keep making decisions outside of anybody else winning and then it stops to you that I made the decision because you thought it was this and so forth. And again it caused problems with, with the community.

The, you know, us guys, you know, we don't like the ones that doing these kind of info briefings and not trying to put you guys on a hot seat. But we get numerous complaints on who making the decisions at the University, who has the wheel, who's driving it.

And every time we talk to somebody, somebody else driving a wheel and you say it was you. Okay, fine. But like I said, how are we going to get transparency and stuff like that? There's not a conversation or things are going forward, you know.

And another one too just after that subject as you already answered a question, you know, what is the long term plan for Ching's Field?

So to go back to your first question, I want to apologize. I did make the decision, but I did consult with President and I believe President consulted with the board. Which President? President Lassner.

That's what I'm saying. He really was out the door. You never think to wait to collaborate with a new President, to collaborate if you make a decision like this or the contract was going to end that soon. So you have to make a decision. Was that the reason?

I believe that it was better to renew him for at least one year.

So that was his contract going to end.

It was going to end this year. This year.

What I'm saying is you guys knew you guys was going to have a new President. Why not collaborate with the new President? Said the guy sing Aloha, taking all our taxpayers money and gone. That's the kind of concern that our people have because again, we're not hiring people, local people here.

And I ain't got nothing against people foreigners coming here getting jobs, but they're making decisions for a lot of people that you collaborate with. Somebody who already was out the door made a decision to hire a the interim Director and after that he hired him because he had to do this decision because he couldn't fire him.

Because he wasn't hired. So you wait till he get hired, then he fire him. What transparency? Is that how you collaborate like that? How can you get transparency? Never giving the new President one option to collaborate with the. With you guys to gain you guys trust and working with you guys. She trusting you guys, but she didn't have that chance.

I will say that collaboration is something that we always try to do. But the timing of the football coach was very. It was very difficult because the transfer portal opened.

Can I interrupt? I'm sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. So you took over as interim or acting AD when?

I believe it was November officially. I think it was December 2nd. I think it was December 2nd.

So December 2nd. But you knew about it before it was announced that he was going to be fired?

I wasn't sure of it. I knew about it right after it happened.

And so you were appointed when or you were. You took over when exactly?

December 2nd. I don't really can't even remember, to be honest.

When did you make the decision to extend the contract?

I'm not exactly sure of the date on what it was. I think it was December 2nd.

Okay, but when did you decide to.

I was thinking about it from when they announced that Athletic Director Angelis was not going to be retained anymore. I'm not sure about the date, but I do know that officially it was December 2nd. But I was making decisions prior to that. I was given the authority to make decisions prior to that. How much prior to that?

I want to say sometime in late November. And the President told you that? I believe it was hr I'm not completely sure. I can't really remember the real.

Interesting because.

Because he was not.

I wonder how it would be if the Governor or we told the incoming President, you know what, you're not taking over yet. But we're going to start making all the decisions, you know, in December. A couple weeks in December before you start. Because literally that's what happened there. Right.

You were told before the person was even let go that you were making the decisions.

I was told I had author to make decisions.

Same thing. Right.

You know, but I did consult with the President before. I didn't just make the decision and say I'm going to renew it. I consulted with the President.

Yeah. So when I asked you earlier was the decision that you made was. Was you. You said. Yeah. You didn't say you had collaborate with the outgoing President. I understand that. I apologize. So if you did it by yourself like I asked you earlier, or you did it in collaboration with working with the outgoing President. And that is different.

Agreed. And I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. I did collaborate with the President. I did tell him that I wanted to consider renewing the contract.

So can you explain again why you said in the best interest of the University, specifically.

Right. So the transfer portal opens right after the football season ends. And as you could see, we did have a lot of people entering the transfer portal.

So we were trying to minimize that effect on the football program, which would be not devastating, but it would have a negative impact on our football program not knowing the fate of the football coach.

Okay, but you extended the contract before the portal opened, correct?

Correct. Just to avoid how much.

How soon before the portal opened? A couple weeks. Right. A couple weeks. From what I understand.

I'm not really sure.

Okay. I think it was a couple of weeks because I was told that the reason why. And then a whole bunch of people went into the portal. Even though you did that. Because I questioned that. I said, you think just because you. You raised you.

And I'm not saying whether or not the contract should have been extended or not, but the reasons you're giving is that to avoid people from going into the portal. But it didn't do that. Ultimately. It didn't do that.

We wouldn't really know, to be honest, because we don't know how many more people would have entered the portal. People are going to enter the portal anyway. I can give you statistics on the portal.

Right, But I'm just saying, because you have no control. So whether you did it or not, you still had some key people leave or go to the portal.

Correct. Which is true at any university.

Right. So just the fact that you extended the contract doesn't necessarily.

I did only extend it by one year. We could have done it for more years, but I didn't think it would be prudent because it would be the next athletic director's decision to be able to make a decision.

So you're listening to yourself, what you just said, giving the new athletic Director to make the decision if they're going to choose him. But you didn't think to make the new President collaborate with you to extend the contract. See, by using the.

I don't use the word excuse, but that's what it sounds like, that then we're going to have more people entering the portal. We already knew prior to the ending of the season we were losing a lot of Members because of what happened during the season and the coaching style.

I'm not going to blame any individual coach that's why a lot of our players was entering the portal. But to go ahead and collaborate with brother Lassiter to, because that was his guy to extend the contract. And I may be making it up, but that's going to be the conversation.

We don't know because nobody else had a chance to be in him. How we don't know. You guys just kind of, you know, hey, that's my boy. You know, give him another shot. Give him one more year. I'm not saying that would happen, but you can see what the community is thinking.

Yeah, because I think like the community. I don't think like University, because I'm a community. So that's how I'm thinking. I wouldn't be saying it if it wasn't being thinking that way. We're giving too much credit to one guy that would just went to me when I've been in the square building for four years. Lazarus Sock.

Sorry to say that, but that's the truth. Okay. He argumentative. He get all mad at meetings and he played a victim and then everybody really cured Senator Kim. He wasn't a leader. That's all I'm asking you guys.

Telling you guys, like, I trust you guys and not to be upset, but I'm upset because you like give the new ad this purview to avoid the contract, but then you never give the new President the same preview because you're saying because get more people in a portal. Portal.

But the same people that went into the portal, did they come out when you guys extended his contract, how much went in and when you guys extend the contract, how much came out of the portal?

They extended the contract before the portal opened.

Correct?

Before the portal opened. So it didn't. It didn't stop.

We have 29, 29, 19 football players entered the portal. And this is as of January 9, 19 were football players, four of them signed, three of them with FBS schools. But the others we don't know.

Thank you. Jared, quick question. I guess so I'm just trying to get this all straight and I think we're just looking backwards at this point. And so maybe it's more so this never happens again in the future. So the previous Athletic Director, though, he wasn't working on the football contract. Is that what you're telling us?

And that's why you had to. It sounds like you have to take the leadership to make it happen.

I can't answer to that. I can't answer to that because I don't know what.

So you weren't in those conversations of what was going on with the.

I was not. But when I did talk to the football coach, he didn't give me any indication that there was any conversation.

So this. So you had to then figure it all out then. And yes, in a matter of a short period. Was there any conversations of not renewing it or like, was it. There was no conversation at all.

Was it there? I had heard. I don't know how true it is that the athletic Director at the time said that if it wasn't a winning season that he was not going to extend the contract. Is there any truth to that?

I would not know because I didn't. I was not involved in any of those conversations.

Okay, well, it's interesting you weren't involved in any of those conversations and a lot of stuff, but yet you got in and in a matter of weeks you made a decision.

Just because I wasn't involved in the conversation doesn't mean I was thinking about what wondering what we're going to do. I was the number two there, but I was not involved in those conversations.

Is that normal though, that the number two is not involved in any of the contract?

It really depends on the leadership style. It varies from school to school.

So what is the date of the extension? So when does that contract ends for the football coach?

Football Coach. He has two more seasons. So it would be 25-26.

When?

I believe it's December or January. December of 26. I believe he has the 25 season and the 26th season.

So December 20th, around December 26th is when the contract would end.

December of 2020 Contract. Yeah.

So you. That whole decision would have to probably be made by next year. Whether or not correct. That gets. Okay. Anything else on that? Okay, thank you very much. Let's move on. Wester Walker.

Oh, sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. You did ask it. Sorry. So what is the plans for Ching Field and going forward?

So the plans for Ching Field right now are waiting on the plans for the stadium. We cannot make any plans until we know that there is going to be a stadium built or not a stadium built.

We are supporting the nascent project and hoping that that goes through, but that decision is not going to be made until summer.

The reason why I ask and I said this in the hearing, I don't know how much years because I want you into the square building. The University of West Campus was going to build it. Mauka of Farrington Highway and then decided to go Makai or closer to Kroc Center. Yeah, that area. And we have 250 acres, maybe over 200 something acres of land that the University got back in the day.

And when we was constructing the temporary field of James Field, nobody ever thought that the University, with the collaboration and with the sports and want to be in NCAA and all of these divisions ever thought in their head to say, hey, we're not going to wait to the state or Aloha Stadium because of all the things that was happening.

Right, because at the time you guys didn't know Aloha Stadium when it was constructing Change Field, they had everything to divert you guys efforts into building out West Oahu that we've been talking about in the stadium. Wise with the audit acreage that you guys have up there. I heard some of the acreage they're using the University is solar farms.

Yeah, I cannot answer to that. I was not involved in the discussions about Ching Field. When.

So who can answer the question about Ching Field then?

Probably have to be Jen. I mean-. Okay, before you do that, let me just ask. Okay, so if, when and if we have the stadium, what is going to happen to Ching Field? Do you folks know what you're going to plan?

So we would like to build, take away some of the bleachers and move it to the new track and soccer field so that we can repurpose that over there and then expand the football field so that we can have more, more space to practice.

So it'll be turned into a practice field. Correct.

Okay. Jan? Yes. You want to hear from Jan?

Yeah, Because I got another question about all the beaches.

Okay. I mean we do have time, but. Sorry, sorry.

I want to be quick. Okay. And I'll be quick too, because I, I cannot speak for what the official plans are. I can just say, I can just tell you that the official position of the University is that we are counting on and expecting Aloha Stadium to be rebuilt. That wasn't his question.

And so therefore, until now, until it's built, we're going to kind of cobble along and do our best to keep the current Qing complex in usable condition without investing too much. Because Ching Complex was always a short term solution. The long term solution is still officially the Aloha Stadium.

And so therefore West Oahu as an alternative site really doesn't come into play. Right. Because we're relying on Aloha Stadium to be built.

Did you folks even consider putting a temporary or permanent stadium in West Oahu? Right. That's, I think was his question.

Well, I can say that we've had, when we put everything on the table and think about it. Yes, West Oahu was an alternative site, but I. But if it's West Oahu versus Halawa, it's my understanding is it's always going to be Halawa. So we're kind of all in on just praying that Palawa gets built.

As long as I just heard from the previous speaker, the Ed or whatever, that you guys are going to remove some of the bleachers now from the field when you guys get a little stadium up and running.

Oh yes. Once we no longer need chain conflicts to serve as the competitive site for football on campus and we can start repurposing some of that.

Where is those bleachers and all that other materials that you guys have is going to go.

Well, I think we're exploring that. I don't know if that decision has been made.

So as you guys explore, just remember the amount of money of the taxpayers had paid from a temporary field to a permanent and we wasn't even at the time NCAA compliant. You guys wanted to spend some more funds. So the project goes up to 3,4 million more to get it done. That's what I'm saying. If you guys.

So the reason why I have a problem and I'm going to end this with this.

And whether you can answer it or not, it was never the University's leadership's plan to actually really, because we get nobodies on West Oahu ever was really planned when they came to us when I was on the neighborhood board giving us all these great things that they was going to bring to the west side. Never happened.

Shortchange us because everything is manoa. Everything is manoa. Why we wasn't going to have that eco playing field in a sense of thinking about expanding the horizon on that side. We're the fastest growing community. Hanoi is not growing anymore. You know, they are aging out. They're not growing as much as they used to.

We're the fastest growing community with the lessest resources ever. No other community as large as ours has ever had the little resources that we have. I'm not blaming you, but I'm just saying and I just leave it at that. Thank you, Senator.

Thank you, Senator Fevella. Okay, let's move on. Wester Wahl, follow up enrollment. You are going to get that figures to us, right?

Aloha Senators.Maenette Benham Chancellor at UH West Oahu. And if I need any backup, I have my Vice Chancellor for Administration, David McDonald with me as well. Okay, so you want to know about enrollment?

Well, we talked about that. And the question was how many of the enrollment? Because it's 2,814 students. Yes. Currently possibly a few more that you said in the spring, whatever. But how many of that, of that number, how many of them are part time?

We're approximately 50-50. 50-50.

So half of the 2814 is.

Approximately 50-50 part time.

And the other half, I mean, it is. It's misleading to see this number and talk about this is our enrollment when there's so much part time. What percentage, or are you counting high school? The high school students as well, in this number?

Yes. There's about 300. A little less than 300 in this number. So the number that we are giving you is head count. Right. Then we can go into other numbers. We can break it down into student credit hours that we bring in. That's what we usually try to count. I don't have it in front of me.

Full time students, part time students, and then you have the high school. Because to lump it all together to give us this number is very misleading.

Well, we can disaggregate the data, but all the data that we give that we put out in the public is a headcount. And then we can give you full time, part time and our early college as well. And then we can actually go deeper.

So when I know what you put out to the public, but when you come before the Legislature, we like to see those kinds of breakdowns. Okay. Because we're going to ask it ultimately.

All right.

Whether you give it to us, if you give it to us, it'd be a lot easier.

Okay. No, that would be fine. And that's what you want from all of our campuses?

Yes. Okay, so 50%. What is the percentage, Mr. Bruno, what is the percentage of part time at Manoa? You know, you can look it up while she's at. Would you have that? Yeah. So, Senator, curious to know what.

Yeah, I think one of the reasons why we're going to be different, you're going to find that we're different is that we have different purposes. So the University of Hawaii, West Oahu, has been focused on providing our students who need a four year education. Right. Who are coming from a region.

And in that region, the majority of our students are working adults. And so they are 2627 years old, average age. And many of them, because they have family responsibilities, can really truly be part time. And they may come on campus or they may come hybrid or online.

So the majority of our students are over the age of 2627. So you're going to find more of them part time and finishing up their degrees and getting ahead.

So that's the difference and I can understand that. But I think in making decisions on bricks and motor, which is the big thing is that if we're putting, giving you a full campus with buildings and bricks and mortar and only half the, half your population, which is a thousand students basically full time.

If you take out the high school and you take out the part timers on campus, I mean compared to a high school.

Right, but I get the question. There are many part time students who actually take on campus classes as well as full time students who take on campus and off campus classes.

That would be interesting to the breakdown of your part timers who are actually taking on. On campus.

Yeah, so we have heat maps for that. I think many of the campuses have heat maps to show how well we.

Can, I'm sure we can figure it out. What is that percentage? Do you know that approximately. Because your campus is a lot bigger and.

Yeah, approximately. So we have a little over 20,000 students at Manoa. I'd say it looks like about 3,000 or so would be part time and the rest would be full time.

5%. No. What is that less. 15%. 15%, yeah. I was never good at math. Okay, 15%. And I assume you have a lot of elderly as well because you have a huge population on, in, in the urban core. We do, yeah.

We do have a fairly significant fraction that are between 30 and 60 years old.

I'll probably ask all the, all the colleges at some point what their percentage are. Yeah, okay. Question.

Yeah, go ahead.

So one of the things that I came across in looking, looking through West Oahu is you had made a statement in the ACM, uh, News or New Age News, February 6, 2024 saying we're quoted this project, and I assume it was minting the Academy of Cinematic Media will dramatically change life at uh, West Oahu.

With public square retail and dining options, our campus will increasingly become the hub of activity. And that's troubling because every time we've gone to the campus, there's no activity. And I'm not sure when you say dining options and retail.

No, I wasn't talking about creative media. We were talking about the University village that would be built between the rail and our campus as part of the land. Planning around the campus with the heat around the campus. That's what the project I believe was speaking directly to.

Okay. Because the article, and I do have the article here is not referred to any of that it referred to ACM and Chris was quoted and so forth.

Well, I think that might have been part of the film production. The film production studio. Right, right.

So, yeah. And that is on the West Oahu campus.

Yes. So, yes, absolutely.

The film production studio at the University of Hawaii West Oahu will be a game changer for the entire west side because it will provide a variety of employment opportunities for many people on the west side so that they don't have to travel into town, decreasing, you know, a lot of that traffic, plus increasing the number of opportunities for students for internships in a variety of advanced digital and film careers.

And it's part of our rail. The rail area development. We're on the Makai side. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Senator Hashimoto? So I guess at the WAM briefing, you referred us to your enrollment management plan, which I think we were trying to find. We tried to look one day and we couldn't find it, but finally we got a new one. It sounds like you're.

Seems like you're updating it really on the fly since the last update was. On the 13th regularly. Yes. So has there been any more updates since then? Because we're trying to figure out what version is the latest.

That enrollment management plan, was that updated just this January? Is this the January one? Right. So this is the plan that we're working on right now.

Do you still have more to amend in here?

No, we're working on it right now. And so after the end of this academic year, we will go back and assess what we've done for the academic year 23, I mean2425 review what we've done and decide what we're going to do for the next year in those days, different areas, those different pools.

So it looks like your target increase is only 5%, 3%. 3%.

3%, right.

And you think that's satisfactory?

Well, we're. So at the last meeting, Senator Kim reminded us that we. That our system has actually put together a review of predictive analytics for the growth of our campuses over a period of time. And I believe you had the 2020 version.

There is a newer version in 2022 because it's a regression that they do to take a look at a variety of different factors in order to project.

But I asked them that question. They said they didn't have any of that.

Well, they're new at. They have a new Director for Irapo, and so she wasn't familiar with it, but there is a 22 version. And they. Because of your reminder of that they did begin to re review it and revise it to today.

In fact, just before I walked into this room, they sent me the revised predictive analytics for uh, west Oahu going forward. And so that piece of information of data is extremely important to all of us because it helps us to understand the context of our region and how quickly we can grow. 3% is very Low.

My enrollment management people wanted me to go 10%, but it's within what we call sort of the scope of what those predictive analysis says that we should be growing and we are working to actually grow bigger than that. And I just got the.

Shouldn't you be working to not have lose anymore? Your enrollment has gone down and your part time students have gone up and you're counting high school students.

Well, if you, if you do head counts. So we're going on headcounts on the head counts. That's. So this is generally.

So this is not your plan. This is the Enrollment Council's plan.

This is the campus plan.

So, but if it's your, if it's a campus's plan, shouldn't you be leading and saying this is what I want the projection to be. So how come it's 3%?

It's, well, it's based on data and through consensus. This is what we've come up with is 3%. 3% for this coming year. Now it will probably go up next year because we just found out today that we actually have headcount again. 63 more students than we were, that we were projected to have.

So we actually went up more than our 3% and so. Which is a good thing. So we'll readjust, I guess, I guess.

It'S within the margins. But I guess the whole reason why we bring this up is we have this beautiful campus. Yeah. We just need to figure out what is it that we're working towards to populate this school. Right.

You know, I think I talked to the, you know, I told the uh, President, I actually took a visit to ASU recently before the new year and I learned that they have, you know, they have 100,000 students on campuses. They have 100,000 students online.

And I'm, you know, and those are the kind of innovative things that we as uh, have to start thinking about. So when you talk about a 3% increase, I'm like, okay, 60 more students. I'm like, okay, like, but, but I think we have this beautiful campus that we have to figure out how to populate.

And I don't know, you need to tell us like is it. Is the issue that you don't have the degrees that people want? We need to know that. I think we brought that up in the wan hearing. Then you got to tell. We do, we do. Because I know you don't have secondary education and.

But that's a huge need. Right?

We do have secondary education. We do offer it on the different islands.

But all the, all the things that you need. It's not a full. It's not a full secondary education.

It is a full. I think what you don't offer pe. I agree. Well, first of all, I agree with you totally that there is much more that we can do online. But we are pretty much in a position right now where we're at a tipping point. We only have 85 faculty members. That's it.

Yeah, because, you know, your enrollment have gone down.

No, our enrollment actually in 2017 went over 3,000. We were over 3,000 until 2022 with COVID and then our numbers started to go down. We are recovering, hovering right now in terms of headcount. And as of this spring, even after graduating over 230 students in the fall, we're up to 2,850. So we're going up.

I think what I'd like to see from, uh, West Oahu is, you know, I think Senator Dela Cruz brought it, said it best. We're really looking for hub and spoke models. And I think, uh, West Oahu potentially could be the hub.

Yet we're going in Manoa to be the hub for nursing, which I think maybe West Oahu should be the hub for nursing. But I think part of it is the vision. What is the vision of? What do you need to make yourself the place where we can. Where people want to go? I think the location is good.

I think people would rather go that way than go to Manoa in some respects. But I think the data is not showing us that's where the interest is. And I think we should all be worried. And so when you're talking about, zero, we got 60 more students, it's like.

I think we're thinking bigger, we're climbing higher. And you know, with, with your help and getting more faculty to build our program so that we can take in more students. Also, you know, we're a communal campus. That's, you know, we're we people drive into our campus.

We don't have any close residence halls or, you know, we are fast growing, but we are still a commuter campus.

I'm going to ask in the future that you, not you Separate out high school students because that's not a true number. And that you show us part time and what they're actually taking, what percentage of the students. And your number headcount is for your business. The business degrees and business students.

Let's see. They are our highest enrolled program. They are our highest enrolled program. I do have a count of where everyone is at. I just have to find it. It goes business, then applied sciences.

Right. But your business is huge.

Yes, it is the largest undergraduate accounting program in the system. In accounting. Do you have the numbers? We have it. Yeah, we do have the numbers. The actual enrollment. And then I have this all like nicely clipped together and let's see. Okay, so no, so what we're looking at here is business. So in. Sorry, your.

Your phone is.

That's your largest. You would think you would know that it's like.

702. 702 students. So 702 students, which is 14. Okay.

1/4 of your body count, including if we take out. If we take out high school students and some others. I mean, that's a huge portion and I think that's good. But maybe that's your focus. Because if we're spending resources on everything else, when that's your. That's your. At this point, you seem to be attracting more business.

And I'm not sure what kind of resources are being given, but I understand that there's. There's some concern about that. Of the undergraduate business degrees.

No, they are growing very quickly. They are well resourced. They certainly would ask for more positions. But right now what we're focused on in terms of our positions is our pre nursing program and the facilities for our creative media program.

Yeah, I'm seeing for facilities for creative media. And creative media, from my understanding is almost online. A very small portion is in person.

There's about 45% of the students now in the building. We did.

Do I have some graphs that will not show that. And that will come up on Tuesday when we talk about acm. And it's troubling to have found that out. But here you have this huge amount of students undergraduate in business and you're focusing on a portion of students at this point that are offline.

I'm just saying you're not going to focus on them. But this seems to be a bread and butter at some point. And this is where the attraction on this part of the island is coming. So you would think you put your resources there as well.

Yes, we do have resources in our signature programs which would be accounting and Risk management in business and cyber cybersecurity as well. Those are very large in the business area. And then our counseling program and psychology program, those are signature programs as well. Right.

I'm going to refer to Senator Kidani because she couldn't be here. I was asked some of her questions. So she said that because she was. You talked about the enrollment plan online. She went online on Friday the 17th after the Wham. Briefing, and she said there was no enrollment plan online. Okay.

So then the next day, Saturday, she went on, and then it was available online. But then on Wednesday, January 22, a new version came on last dated 1/13/2025. So she's asking, was the Enrollment Management Council listed on page 8, part of the 1/13/25 reversion revision?

Can I have one of them come up and answer that question? Because it wasn't online on the 18th and yet it's listed last dated 1/13 when that's not true, I would have.

To check with our communications folks to find out when exactly it had been posted, updated and posted.

So she says, can you explain the primary difference in the 1/18 version and the 1/22 version that's updated on 1/13?

I can find out.

Okay, then get back to us on that on page 10. What were the targets for 2023-24 and 24-25 years? If you have listed for 25-26 years, incidentally, there are no targets for any of the 23-24 and 24-25 school years throughout the plan. Why is that?

I would have to check with the enrollment management team.

Okay. So yeah, if you can get those responses to us.

So maybe I can ask this of the regents. What is the University's vision of the role and the direction that West Oahu in line of overall University plan would West Oahu take on given that that's the largest growing segment?

Is that something that the regents have talked about as to, you know, where the focus is going to be? And you know, it's pretty much like Hilo where we have the pharmacy school with the enrollment is really down.

Are we looking at futuristic types of degrees that we wanting to educate our students so they can prepare for the future? Are we continuing to just have standard types of degrees without being nimble so we can keep up with the changes that's happening globally to prepare our students? It, you know, we want to go into it.

Is that maybe a place that was the Oahu Hilo? I mean is there a vision of such things?

Well, we've had discussions with the Administration and similar to what Senator Hashimoto has. Said about. Are they the right majors but also the acm, I think we spoke about the hub and spoke. The ACM is the hub for the ACM program for the state.

Okay, we're going to have an interesting discussion on that on Tuesday, which you can come on that. But as far as campus wise, you know, we have, we have these wonderful buildings there, a wonderful campus there.

But you know, are we going to make it more of the, of the business because that seems to be attraction or is it going to be more of it which is the future and looking at it, I mean, or we.

Haven'T gone into that. We've asked Administration and like I said, but we haven't gone into that.

I hope that you folks will look at some kind of, you know, all the roles the different campuses play, what's going to be the focus and so, you know, the public and students themselves, you know, if they're interested in it, then they know where they probably want to go. Right. And stuff like that.

Engineering and so forth like on Hilo shouldn't engineer. We have an engineering college there because we have Mauna Kea, we have all the astronomy going on and the people there on the Big island would be the best likely candidates. And the students.

But no, they got to come to Honolulu to get their degrees because they don't have a school there. Last year we put money in because we initiated putting engineering programs in Hilo, but they still don't have a four year program there.

But you have the cyber security, we.

Have cyber cyber operations there. Yeah. So we, we are very, very nimble there. You know, with our divisions we don't have siloed. We do graduate persistence rate, graduation rate is really high within.

So how many students we have in cybersecurity right now?

Right now is majors. I think we're close to about 7075 students.

Compared to your accounting, which is very large.

Yes, accounting is one of the signature programs of the business field. Yeah.

Okay. Anything else for Mr. Wahl? Senator Favela?

Like I said when I was on the board. Yeah. And the presentation when we all got together with Senators bureau and we had high hopes because our community was growing in hospitality, nursing business. And when we asked the question that if ANOA has a curriculum are we going to be able to duplicate it here?

And I was told no. When I got into this square building I asked a serious question from the previous President not like mention his name anymore. Pastor, what is your guys plan for education at the Institute? You guys know what is that supposed to mean? We're not an educational Institute, we're a research Institute.

So all things that we're talking about here. It was in the hearing, you can go check them back. He told me that in a hearing. The University of Hawaii is a research Institute. That's what he told me. You can shake your head, you can go up to hearing. I got a very good memory. He told me that.

And I asked him why he's saying that because he said that's what they do. They do research and everything else secondary. So what I'm thinking is that student mindset of the University because that was the. What he said in one of the web hearings when I asked him that question.

Let me just clarify that. Because according to the policy by the Board of Regents it's teaching and instruction as the most important. Am I not correct? That is your main policies. So we are. We are research one University, but it's teaching it. I'm just saying what's in the policy. Now what he tells you is something else.

And I think I remember that at that.

You know, so that's why it confuses. Because it's in you guys region, whatever. But what he. The reason why I asked him that day that question was because of what how the research in any other Institute around the continent they have to bring in so much money of their salary. Not here in Hawaii they don't.

They don't have to bring 80%, 20%, whatever it is we subsidize the research Department. And that was his answer to me is because we are a research Institute. So maybe it isn't a bylaws with education with Senator Kim said.

But that was his answer to me when I had asked him, why did all the other universities have to bring in so much percentage for the research to continue to be the research person on campus and they have to bring on so much?

Reason why I say that is because if you look at how long the University of West O'Wall was open, and if you look into what, how he was, how he had said this, it's more to what he had taught me in a hearing, more of a truth.

Because we worry about giving somebody who only bring in 10%, 5%, 3% of their research money, but then we subsidize the rest.

So if you look at the big picture, education is not moving in the direction that whatever the region say it is, because it's going to what we're seeing on how these guys take all this research all over the place.

Senator Faveli, would you like Dr. Sermos to come up because he's head of the research, and maybe he can answer that question about researchers.

Well, while we're waiting for VP Sermos to come out, Senator, the University of Hawaii, West Oahu, is not the research one institution. We are a regional public institution, and we're there to make education affordable, accessible, and value oriented for the community that you serve. That wasn't a question.

I wasn't saying anything about the University of Hawaii. I'm telling you the mindset of the President. When I came, the first time I came here in this square building, they had a pie chart showing how much Hilo was getting. West Oahu and University Manoa. That's what I'm trying to say. So that's what I'm saying.

They slow boating over there. That's the mindset over there in Manoa. I'm not saying that you guys don't offer those great things. I'm just saying that's what he told me in a hearing. You gotta understand, I don't write things down. One thing I have is a good memory of what he tells me. You know what I mean?

I don't know what the hula halaui, bro.

But anyway, we have a new mindset, so.

Okay, go ahead.

Sir, I'm Vasili Sirmus. I'm the Vice President for Research Innovation, uh, system. So, Senator Favela, you're partly right. Uh, Manoa is around 70% of our extramural funding. Uh, last year, out of the 620, they were around $420 million. And then the other $200 million is spread amongst all of our other campuses.

So I think what the conversation or discussion you're going for is about teaching equivalencies and where professors get paid from, how they use research funds for General funds.

I think he's referring to salaries for researchers where they usually bring in a good portion of their salaries, 60 to 80% of their salaries via the research grants, right? Correct. All of our researchers are paid a funds, which is General funds.

Not anymore. After we had that discussion four or five years ago, I think yes. I don't know who actually brought that up to our attention. Actually, MANOA has taken a very active role in order to make sure that researchers are charging certain amount of their salary on extramural funds. I think Michael can speak to the percentage.

I think it is now in every offer letter for researchers that at least 25% of their salary is every step counts. So that is part of the research. One University we use some of our extramural funds to pay for the salaries and therefore at least some of the General funds for tuition and teaching activities, academic activities.

So that ties with the teaching equivalences which was also discussed four or five years ago.

So of the 25% now paying their salaries, what happens to that 25% a funds that you have? That's a windfall.

Now that actually when we talk about the empty positions and how they always you always going to have at any time, at any time at the snapshot you're going to have 2300 positions vacant within Manoa. A lot of that is because of the salary savings they have in General funds.

So part of that they use in order to Fund those vacant positions.

So you're welcome then. You're welcome.

Some things you are correct and some things maybe not. But yeah, that one was. But that one was. Yeah, actually kudos to manoa.

So can we get. And you don't have to do that now, but can we get a report on what portion of the researchers are now bringing in 25%? And is it 25% minimum or up to 25%?

No, no, no. These are minimums. We should also mention that we just last summer implemented an entirely new classification for faculty. So we don't hire research faculty anymore. That position was abolished. You have to. Senator, I agree again with a lot of what you're saying.

If you're not teaching, if you have no interest in teaching, you don't belong at a University.

So can I get a list then again, like you gave me several years ago, that showed which faculty that they were teaching zero classes and bringing in 00 research dollars or.

You reminded me of that list a few weeks ago. Yes, I'm waiting for it. We can. I think we can show a lot.

Of progress and I don't want to raise expectations here. I want to manage expectations. You know there is what has happened the last 30 years and there is going forward so you're going to see some of that. So I need to. We need to be can happen overnight.

Are you going to be moving off of the 25 and go higher at some point? Is there a plan do you have a plan of steps to reach more like 40 which is still below the national Because I believe they bring in what 60 to 80% the requirement that.

Does happen in organized research units. But in General on the academic units on R1 institutions that is not true. It's a much lower percentage. So I don't know how MANOA is going to deal with that. But you know we are at the first step.

So my preference has been to begin also with yeah I think. I think we should have a minimum level of teaching of every single person who is labeled a faculty Member.

Maybe the board can do a policy on that because right now they're saying it's 24 credit hours for Manila and it's 27 for community colleges. But then you have all these equivalencies. That is not.

Teaching equivalences is up to the Board of Regents and also.

Negotiation but there should be a minimum without equivalencies of the teaching component. And that's something I hope the regents.

Will know about it.

Sure. Reason why we brought this up and was in the hearing and I was because of the Monakel. So we had a researcher took some students to the to a big island Hilo. Pretty sure it was Hilo because corner of the hotel was a little bit too much too expensive.

But they went to Hilo and they were supposed to go do some kind of research on on Mauna Kea. What was happening on Mauna Kea. They brought back to the Bill that Senator Kim was looking through him and we had questions and that's how this conversation happened with Mr. The President Guy going forward. Reason for that?

It was because when he came back we found out none of the students would even spend one working hour on Mauna Kea. They were in the hotel.

They didn't even get in the car went up to Mauna Kea to do any of the research that was on the manifest that they said that they handed in to them to the guy.

And that's the reason why the Conversation came up and it didn't matter if they was there or whatever they was doing the research, but they didn't have to go to Hilo if they wasn't going to actually do the research on Mauna Kea. They could have just done them at home and looks on telescope. I don't know.

But that was the reason why this line of questioning came up with me and him. And even if maybe he kind of misspoken some of the curriculum thing. But I remember that because we were talking about the same thing.

The researchers at the time and now he is doing other good work, was coming in with less and we had some researchers. Wasn't even. What's it called on campus or warm bodies or whatever you like call them. Wasn't even in the classroom when they was having students.

So that was the concern why I kind of brought it up.

You do have a good memory. Yeah.

Okay, thank you. Okay. Anything else? If not, we will move on. Okay, let's see. Cip. I see Jan has stepped out of the room where she's come back in. zero, okay. So if you can give us a update on. Well, we were talking about the mount of RIM last time, right.

What portion of different projects have been RIM monies have been used. And one of that was the Sinclair and chink field. And what else? Zero, I don't have it broken down. You were going to give us a list of all the. All the. All the.

How we expanded all the RIM we have. Okay.

Projects that was covered by rim. Because RIM is repair and maintenance, basically. Right. When you ask for a lump sum from us, you ask for a lump sum for rim, which is repair maintenance. Well, it's more. I mean, it's.

It's more than it used to be. Focused primarily on what they call crdm, Right. Capital renewal, deferred maintenance. So we moved away from that. RIM is an expanded version of taking the addresses deferred maintenance plus modernization and new projects.

Okay. We didn't see anything when we looked it up that it refers to new projects. Pretty much modernization. Rim, when we looked it up as well. Yeah, it's deferred maintenance and renewal. But so because you come in specifically for CIP monies. Right.

For projects, and then you ask for a lump sum to do your pretty much deferred maintenance. And then always say that, you know, you have a backlog because you don't have enough RIM monies. And the concerns we have is that if you're taking RIM monies for new projects, what defeats the purpose of us giving You.

A lump sum for rim. So, yeah. Yeah. So how much of the RIM monies we've given you over the last couple years that went to new projects or projects not considered deferred maintenance?

So sometimes we will have deferred maintenance. That's what. Well, that's why it's maybe getting hyper technical here. But if we go in and we renovate a space and it is taking care. Part of it will be taking care of deferred maintenance, part of it will be modernizing. Right. And so it's. It.

It is more than it is intended to be, more than just deferred maintenance. I mean, that's how it was. At least the program was envisioned. I think that we can. I don't have the appropriation language in front of me. I can try to pull it up real quick. It should cover all of that.

But the majority of it, the majority of it does go toward primarily deferred maintenance, I would say. Okay, so can you.

I. We asked for that. The meeting on Friday about the list of where the funds are going for each of the years you've gotten the lump sum over in.

Zero, okay. I apologize. I didn't catch that. I can get you a detailed description of where all those RIM funds went.

And then we also talked about Atherton and what was the vacancy rate. And when you get back to be.

On that, the Atherton vacancy rate.

7% this semester.

7% this semester.

Okay. And how many students are actually utilizing the Innovation center and using it for the purpose that it was built for? Innovation. Do you have any idea how that's going? Who does that fall under?

College. I can find that out.

Okay. Scheidler College runs the Innovation program. In the Rise.

In the Rise. Right. And then there's. What's that? They run out of. They move the program out of Schuyler into that. What is that? The Innovation Program that. Susan Yamada Pace. So Pace. Pace is on it. And Pace falls under what? Under Schuyler. Okay.

So the vision for that was it would be an innovation hub and students hopefully would be living in. In Rise. That would actually be these innovation type students. Right. So it'd be good to get a percentage of how many of the residents.

And I know it's not limited, but it'd be good to know how many of the students actually are residing in Rise that are actually in the Innovation Program or utilizing innovation.

We can find that out. I remember in a meeting with Pace and others a year ago that the feeling was that that is the primary advantage of living there. If you're not taking advantage of PACE and that space, maybe it doesn't make as much sense for you to be there.

Exactly.

Because it's more expensive than the other dorms.

So we had some students go over to Pace. Go. I'm sorry, go over to that. And I'm not sure if the regents have been in there and see how it's operating, but they came back and said they literally saw like 20 people.

And they saw a lot of the students of the 20 were just there individually by themselves, doing homework or doing, you know, on the computer. There was one group in that was called Innovation Room, whatever that room is, but they were like five PACE people that work there for pace. So it seems.

So it's very underutilized, which was my concern when this whole project was proposed, because we have the Manoa Innovation center, which I understand is also underutilized, and there's hardly anybody there.

Well, the Manoa Innovation center is an incubator for companies out of technology we've developed, hopefully. But we talked about cases for students.

We talked about using part of that, combining Manoa Innovation Center for the innovation students. Right. And then they said, zero, no, no. And that. So if we have Manoa Innovation that is being underutilized, and if we have Rise and Innovation center there being underutilized, I mean, those are spaces. Again, are we looking at AI?

Are we looking at futuristic things? And where are we going with that? So I hope you folks are relooking at how we utilize our space, because now you're going to have Sinclair come online, and that's a student success center. So student success, innovation, I mean, you know, they kind of lump together.

And so it's part of the thinking.

Was actually that those students could. Could interact. It's just across the street from each other.

Well, it could have been combined as well. Right. With programs.

Can be.

So I can talk about the Manoa Innovation center, which is pretty much full. Actually, it is a great source of revenue for the University. Thank you. We also have guaranteed around $6 million from the Federal Government, and we're redoing it.

The first people tell me that it's, like, deserted.

Actually, we're pretty much full.

Well, that's good to know.

And I don't want to tell you how much money we make, because you never know. Right. So it is a really good source of revenue for us as an office space and as a lab space for technology companies.

So you don't have any open space in there?

We have, but not too many. We have but not too many. Right now we have 10 taken the first floor where HDC used to be and we have gutted that whole place and we're going to modernize it. And we secured $6 million from the Federal Government to pay for that.

Very good. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you coming in.

Please don't take it from us.

I won't. But I can't guarantee others won't. Okay, let's see. How about, Noah, what's happening with noaa? The Graduate Graduate House.

It's been renamed to Hale Haukani and it is on schedule to take occupancy by the fall of this year, fall 2025.

Okay, and what, what's the cost of that project to us or to.

Let our cfo. Okay.

Good afternoon Senators. Calvert Young, Vice President for Budget and Finance. So Hale Hakane is a approximately 138 $1.0 million project. The University's contribution is there was about $8 million order of magnitude for soft costs. So these are pre project expenses, the consulting work, entitlement design.

And then the University of Hawaii Manoa has committed to contributing $2 million a year for 3035 years each year towards rent abatement. But the funds actually help the developer, operator. And then there's a child care facility that was planned to be built as into one of the two towers that comprise the facility, the school facility.

A school facilities authority SFA provided $10 million towards the construction of that the child care portion or the area for the child care portion. And that's the full amount of the universities and the state's contribution.