Senate Standing Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs

Good afternoon. We are convening, today's joint hearing between the Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs and Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs on two resolutions. We are, let's see, in Conference Room 225. Today is April 20, and time is 03:00pm.

First measure on the agenda this afternoon is House Concurrent Resolution one eight six, urging the United States Department of Defense and Defense Health Agency to extend the renewal period for secretarial designee health care authorization relating to the Red Hill water contamination crisis and to improve health care access for affected individuals. I believe this is your resolution.

Oh, yeah. Thank you for describing it so well. On our testifiers list for this measure is Moira Flannery might be joining us via Zoom. Hi, Moira. Welcome.

Sorry. Should I start now?

Yes.

Okay. I am a BSW student at Manoa, and I am writing in support of the bill h t r one eighty six. I do believe that there's been a lasting and deeply concerning impact on the health and well-being, not only of military families, but the civilians and surrounding communities.

And I do believe that the exposure that they have been impacted to, and the complications that they have dealt with, I believe that the renewal of this process to help them getting the care that they need without further interruption would provide much needed stability, the continuity of the care and peace of mind just for the people who were impacted. And I think it is an important step to getting them the care that they need without any of the further complications of the health care process.

Thank you. Thank you for your testimony, Margaret. We have Ernie Lau from the Board of Water Supply.

Good afternoon, chair Fuknaga and chair Wakai and members. Ernie Lau and Board of Water Supply. We stand in support of this house Concurrent Resolution. Really the I think the, one of the things that, the National Academy Museum of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine, NASEM, releasing their report, on the clinical follow-up and care for those impacted by the JP five releases of red at Red Hill. Stated that, it created a public health crisis with lasting impacts.

One of Mason's, recommendations was to ensure continued access and continue eligibility for care to individuals that were affected. So this resolution, if the Department of War and the Federal Government take the the recommendations of this resolution, they would extend that care. The impact of families, I believe, are still suffering from the long lasting effects of Red Hill. NASEM also indicated that there was little not too much research or studies done on exposure exposure to jet fuel.

So it's very important that they have continued access to care.

Thank you.

Thank Thank you for your insights. Is there anyone else wishing to testify on HCR 186? If not, members, any questions of mister Lau or Moira? Okay. If not, I'm gonna hand it over to my esteemed co chair.

Okay. House Concurrent Resolution 200 urges the US Department of Defense to reassess prior determinations and closure decisions under the Comprehensive Environmental Response Compensation and Liability Act in light of evolving scientific understanding of per and poly fluoroalkyl substances and recent federal hazardous substance designations. For our testifiers this afternoon, we have in person, Mister Lau, on behalf of Board of Water Supply and this is continuing to be a great concern.

Yes. Thank you, Chairs, and members. We strongly support this house Concurrent Resolution 200 which urges the Navy to reassess prior determinations and closure decisions under CERCLA, pertaining to per and polyfluoroalkyl substances. The military's approach has been really to look at their first step is to do a kind of a research of their files to see if they have any records of a FFF or other types of uses. Actually, they focus really on a triple f on their investigations.

But although they admitted the Department of War, previously, the Department of Defense did admit to Congress that there are different types of uses on the on military insulation that may contain PFAS chemicals. So on that literature review, if they don't find any records of a FFF being used on an installation, they'll deem it okay and not really investigate.

But that doesn't mean FFF or PFAS containing compounds were not used at the facility because if you remember, it was developed in the forties and fifties, and there are thousands of different versions of it. So we support the idea of going having the military go back and actually test, using the current analytical test methods to determine if there is PFAs contamination at the site.

We made a recommendation to the Navy at the old IA laundry site, where they still have a groundwater monitoring well there, to simply go back and sample and test and add that monitor well to the network of monitor wells for the Red Hill situation.

They declined that request. But it's very possible that these, PFAs was you were used on sites. Just the documentation is very poor. And something that's been used over 60, 70, or 80 years, you might expect that the records may not be the best. But prove it through actual testing, and let science guide, what their course of action should be going forward in the future. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you, Mister Lau. We do not have any other testifiers, signed up to testify in person. Are there any questions?

Yes.

Senator Richards, for Mister Lau?

Yep. Okay. I can't let him come all this way and not talk story. Right?

Thank you, Senator.

This is one I was curious, Mister Lau. The PFAs and we've learned more, we collectively, as in the scientific community. They refer to it as a forever chemical. Okay. We find it from your perspective, from industry perspective.

Okay. And then what? What do we do about it? Is there any collective wisdom that we've decided, okay. Looks like this is the path forward, or is it, right now primarily okay?

Let's identify, see if we have the problem. Because I concur with what you're saying. Okay. Our records say we didn't use it, so we're not gonna test for it. I don't think that's the way to go.

I think let's see if we have just to verify. But then if we find it, then what? And do you have any comments on that?

I think that's where, Senator, the biggest challenges that face our community. I do wanna be clear. I'm not saying, the PFAs contamination only originates from military installations.

Correct. And I agree with that.

It's been used quite broadly including in our own personal lives. But military installations are well known for having a lot of use that involve PFAs chemicals. I would say then figure out where the contamination is and see if it's possible to do any remediation or cleanup. For example, on the Red Hill situation the focus for most of my twelve years, in dealing with that since 2014 has been on petroleum contamination. Eighty-year-old underground fuel storage facility stored many different types of fuels.

But then, the HFFF Concentrate liquid spill of 2022 November opened up the need to look at PFAs. And I urged them for quite a while to do broad testing just to see the occurrence of PFAs. And they did do some baseline testing. It took a few years to get them to do that. And what they found was, more PFAs contamination than they anticipated, in that facility at a broader area of that facility.

So, cleanup is gonna be our challenge, because this stuff doesn't degrade or naturally in the environment. It's very stable. It may transform into different types of PFAs chemicals but it's still there. It moves very easily with the groundwater, and that's our concern. So the cleanup, Senator, I wish there was a simple solution to this problem.

I think there are over 12,000 or so of these man-made fluorinated compounds or chemicals created since the 40's. Right now, I think the EPA test methods are maybe good for 40 to 70 of those. So, this is a problem that's gonna be with us for a long, long time.

Okay. I appreciate that. That's what I was most curious about because first, we gotta figure out if we have the problem, but then we have to then figure out then what. So okay. I appreciate that.

Thank you, Charlie.

Yeah. Thank you. I think the, it begins first of all. It's saying, do we have a problem or not? And I think, using data to drive those decisions versus a check of old files that may not be very well kept, is not a good reason to rule out investigation.

I'm sure at the time of the use, nobody worried about it because it was no big deal because it it wasn't understood that this could become a big deal. So

Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you, Sir. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

Maybe as a follow-up, what is the status of the Board of Water Supplies pending litigation, you know involving the navy on the spills and cooping some of the costs associated with Board of Water Supplies mediation actions?

Because it's an ongoing litigation, I can't say much about it, but I just do wanna just remind everybody, we did file a claim against under the Federal Tort Claims Act for about $1,210,000,000 against the US Navy at Red Hill. I'll just say that the case is still going through the legal process and you know, it's gonna be a while.

But, Board of Water Supply is committed to see this through the end, for the simple reason that, it shouldn't be fair to our rate payers, our water customers that they have to foot the bill for new sources, and all of that. So, I believe the Navy should be held accountable.

Okay. Thank you

very much.

Thank you. Check.

Hi. Thank you. So, in 2024, Hoi Aye Wells Facility detected PFAs, and it's the well that serves the Waianae Community, but it wasn't reported to Department of Health until March 2025. So, do you know anything about that process and why it took so long to alert Department of Health, therefore, alerting the public?

You know, I have to get back to you, Senator, on that. I knew I do know that we want to verify that it's present, and we do test. Hoi Aai Wells also has a water treatment system there already. So I can get back to you on why it took so long.

Thank you. And I do remember being a part of that conversation with your, with your staff as well, and I believe that one of the responses was it was such a a low reporting level that it wasn't harmful, which, again, you can speak with your department. I know you folks are very diligent and accurate with your information, so I wanna make sure that I give you that opportunity.

But any level is too much level, so I think it's important for the public to know what the reportings are and make sure that they get that firsthand.

Definitely, Senator. I totally agree. Thank you.

Thank you, chair.

Thank you. Okay. Any further questions? If not, we will recess and hopefully have some follow-up.

We wanna reconvene our joint committees with the Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs and the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs for decision making on two resolutions. The first one is HCR 186. The two chairs have confirmed. We'd like to move this resolution out as is. But for the Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs, we do not have quorum.

We will be making decisions on this matter tomorrow, that is April 21st at 02:00 in this room, 225.

'Kay. For PSM committee, same recommendation. I believe we do have quorum, and if we can ask, Senator Hashimoto to take the tally. Chair recommends voting I mean, passing in an unamended form.

Members, HCR 186 chairs recommendation passed unamended. [roll call]. Chair recommendation's adopted.

Thank you very much. On the next resolution, HCR 200, chairs would like to also move this measure out in an unamended form and keep the discussion going to ensure that we get answers at some point, for PSM committee. Any questions? If not, then chair's recommendation to vote it out unamended. Chair votes aye.

Members, HCR 200. Chair's recommendation to pass an amendment. Anybody who's voting with reservations or no's, with all others voting, I would note the excuse of Senator Lorraine Inouye. Chair rec- recommendations adopted.

Thank you very much.

For EIG, same recommendation to pass the vote out as is. As was noted in the previous measure, we do not have quorum. So we will be taking a vote on this measure tomorrow, April 21st at 02:00 in this room. With no further business, we are adjourned.