House Standing Committee on Judiciary & Hawaiian Affairs

Welcome to the House Committee on Judiciary on Hawaiian Affairs. It is Tuesday, April 7, 2PM. You're in Conference Room 325. Thank you to everyone who's here today. Thank you to our members who are here.

If you're testifying, please limit your testimony to about two minutes. I'll ask you to summarize at that point. And if you were testifying in person, just come on up to the podium. Just speak clearly and loudly, and the new microphone system in the ceiling should pick it up. If you're testifying on Zoom, please keep yourself muted and your video off while waiting to testify, and then again after your testimony is complete.

Use the Zoom chat function if you need to communicate with our technical staff for any issues, and they'll do their best to help you out. If you're disconnected, just rejoin when you can, and I'll try to fit you in to finish your testimony. If the power goes out here in the building and we need to reschedule, I'll make sure to post appropriate notice so you know what we're doing when. If you're testifying on Zoom, please avoid any trademarked or copyrighted images.

And as always, it's okay to disagree, but let's not be disagreeable.

We're all working together for what's best for the state. So let's go ahead and get started. We're hearing most of the measures we're hearing today are resolutions. I'll ask vice chair to run that portion of the hearing, taking testimony on the resolutions, and then I'll take the last three measures, which are bills. And then we'll do decision making on all the measures after that.

So that's the plan. Turn it over to you, vice chairs.

Thank you, chair. Okay. For resolutions, we will get started with HCR 15 and HR 17. This is relating to expressing support for the Kamehameha Schools admissions policy. There is one person signed up to testify on Zoom, Ilima Costa.

Please go ahead.

Aloha, chair, vice chair, and committee members. I know time is short, so I don't wanna take too much of yours. As a, graduate of the Kamehameha Schools, I want to thank my benefactor, Pernice Pauahi Bishop. And I wanted to stand on my testimony in support of this measure, urging the legislature to please pass a resolution in support of Kamehameha Schools' admissions policy, as well as urging the AG's office to make an official amicus brief, supporting the Kamehameha Schools admissions policy. Thank you again.

Much aloha to each of you. Mahalo. Aloha.

Thank you very much. That is the only person signed up to testify. Is there anyone else wishing to provide testimony? Okay. Seeing none.

Members, any questions for our one testifier? Okay. Seeing none, we are moving on to HCR 22, HR 22, urging the United States Congress to pass HR 2687, also known as the End Kidney Disease Deaths Act.

So 22, try to two.

Okay. We have no one signed up to testify. Is there anyone wishing to provide testimony? Okay. We did receive, a total of six in support, zero post zero comments for both of these measures.

No one to ask questions of. We will move on to HCR146 HD1, HR138 HD1. Now we have Haddad and Sherwin LLP on Zoom.

Aloha. I'm sorry. My office is on a corner in downtown. I'll find it.

I'll get quiet here in a moment.

Mahalo, chair Tarnas and vice chair Poepoe for scheduling this hearing on these important resolutions. I did submit written testimony, and as set forth there, this is your last chance to do anything in this two year legislative cycle on excited delirium. I do ask that you amend the resolutions as set forth in my written testimony to add hyperactive delirium, agitated delirium, and exhaustive mania because those names for excited delirium have been used interchangeably for years.

For example, when I deposed the founder of the theory of excited delirium, he testified that whether he called it excited delirium or agitated delirium ", depends on the day of the week, I guess," because they're the same thing.

Emergency physicians who work as defense experts in this area promoting excited delirium just changed the name to hyperactive delirium and have continued using it. So if those alternate names are omitted from the resolutions, the proponents of excited delirium can simply say that hyperactive delirium, agitated delirium, or exhaustive mania are not pseudoscientific and are therefore not covered by the resolutions. And they'll continue using, those alternate names to promote the theory just under its, another name. And for the rest of this, I'll stand in my testimony.

Mahalo for your time.

Thank you very much. Next is Hawaii Disability Rights Center on Zoom.

Thank you very much. Good good afternoon, chair, vice chair. I know that last year, we heard we heard the excited three of bills. Your committee was very supportive, and and and we really appreciate that. We we had hoped, obviously, as the bill might have passed last year or this year.

Yes. Thank you. Yes.

Also, I mean, we're after we left off at the end of that's when we had hoped to have some productive discussions with each year about this and those just could be starting, but they didn't they didn't really go go anywhere. And so, of course, this resolution simply asked the legislature to do what it the way it asked the bill. So, you know, I mean but on the other hand, I think the resolution has value

Please go with her.

In terms of going on

I'm on a Zoom.

Like the fact that a lot of people need to do this work on important issue. And, we're hoping that this will give some momentum so that the legislature next year take this up. So thank you very much.

Thank you. Next is community alliance on presents on Zoom. Not present. They testified in support. Verdel Halleck on Zoom.

Miss Riddell?

Please proceed. Can you hear us? Miss Hallett, please proceed.

Chit chat here. She's coming. We we can go to the next testifier and come back.

Do you know what's happening again?

Ilima DeCosta, did you wanna testify?

Aloha. I yes, I wanted to testify in strong support of this resolution. I wanted to thank the chair, vice chair, and committee members for your continued support in reference to this issue. And I want to give my aloha to Verdel Halleck. Belzibirdell, I think we're gonna hear from you next.

Okay? So if you can hear me, we can hear you. Thank you.

Thank you. We will try to go back to Verdel. Are you able to chat with her? She can't talk. Do members have any questions for the testifiers?

Okay.

Aloha, chair, vice chair, and committee members. Hi. I am Verdel Halleck speaking on behalf of my son, Sheldon Halleck, and I am strongly support for HCR 146 h d one and HR 138 h d one relating to excited delirium. Sheldon's tragic story began in March 2015 when he was unarmed and jaywalking in front of Iolani Palace.

His encounter with the Honolulu police led him to be pepper sprayed, tased, and handcuffed and hog tied with, police officers on his back and one with a knee to his neck, which ultimately led to his death at the age of 38.

The Honolulu Police Department defended their actions by blaming his death on excited delirium. A civil lawsuit was filed by our family against the police officers involved for excessive use of force. At our 2019 trial, the police defense expert witness and ER doctor testified Sheldon's death was attributed to excited delirium. Although his death certificate said manner of death was a homicide, jurors believe that jump side's term of excited delirium to be a real medical diagnosis and found the officers not responsible for his death.

In 2023, the last of the medical organizations disavowed their backing for excited delirium from being used as a medical diagnosis.

This injustice is what spurred our desire for change by taking legislative action to ban excited delirium and any terms related to it from being used in the state of Hawaii. HPD should provide better training for police officers to cope with people suffering from mental health disorders, and the Veterans Affairs needs to provide better services and treatment for our returning veterans suffering from PTSD and other mental health issues.

Our goal is for Sheldon and all the innocent victims who unjustly lost their lives while in police custody and to protect the Ohanas in the state of Hawaii from suffering this injustice in the future. I thank you for your time, and I humbly ask for your support to pass this resolution in memory of our son's children so that his death was not in vain. Mahalo nui law.

Thank you very much. Okay, members, any questions for the testifiers? Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Questions? See, none we'll move on to HCR 123.

HR 115. By requesting the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands and statewide office and homelessness and housing solutions to develop a coordinated support and stabilization pathway for native Hawaiian beneficiaries experiencing homelessness or extremely low income. Department of Hawaiian Home Lands.

Aloha, Chair and vice chair,members of the committee, Orianaleal Koinoa of the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. We stand on our written testimony in support of this resolution. As our testimony outlines, we've, been able to open Hale Hulu Mamo. It's the first transitional housing the department has ever done, but we know that this is just the start of the work for our houseless beneficiaries on the waiting list. We also recognize the need to collect data and compare that data across other, stakeholders and their information.

I'm available for questions. Mahalo. Thank you.

That is the only person signed up to testify. Is there anyone else that can provide testimony? Okay. We've done members questions for our testifier.

Sure. For, our one and only testifier. Thanks for being here.

Yeah. In the rezo, you're looking to evaluate establishing transitional Kahali tiny homes with, SOHHS State Office of Housing and Human Housing and Homelessness Services. That I think, there's been questions about I mean, the state the homeless department, so to speak, partnering with you folks when you know what I mean? You already have this entity created to do such work already and to combine the two. I think some people are wondering these Kauhale tiny homes.

Will they now be brought into a broader, use, I guess, for the general public, not just Hawaiian beneficiaries?

I believe the goal, objective, and purpose of this resolution is for us to work in collaboration with them. Sometimes I will admit state agencies work in silos when we should be sharing data so that we can implement the models that are most effective for our beneficiaries and also for those individuals who are houseless across the state. That doesn't mean that those non natives are beneficiaries. It but it does mean that we should be working in collaboration.

Right. And sorry. One follow-up. Sure. Sure.

So we just honored CN, Council for Native Hawaiians today. So would did you think of that entity? They've they've been established for twenty five years, I believe, doing what I think you're aiming to do in partnership with SOHHS.

We are not the authors of this resolution. However, if this body would like to make an amendment for us to work in collaboration with them, the department would be open to it.

Okay. Alright. Thank you for your time

here. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Question. Are there any Kauhale programs that's, in operation where you folks are working with this office currently on the two islands right now?

or no.

Okay And then, I I'm sure you can't speak for the commission or for the director, but if Kauhales were allowed on DHL for programs such as described in the resolution, would those Kauhale units be limited to just beneficiaries who are on the wait list?

Yes.

It would be.

Yes.

Okay. Thank

you. Thank you. Thank you. Any additional questions? Okay.

Let me move on to see. Pictures. How can you know? HCR 32, HR 32, requesting the governor's senior adviser for mental health and the justice system to formulate a plan to increase access to the Hawaii State Hospital for certain mentally ill criminal defendants. First, interest to Department of Health.

Hi. Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. My name is Courtney Matsu. I'm here for behavioral health administration, department of health. Please stand on our written testimony.

I did wanna add that we are committed to working with the senior advisor on mental health and justice as well as Justice Department, and other stakeholders in moving some of our initiatives forward to ultimately, manage the census at HSH. Thank you. Thank you.

Hawaii Disability Rights Center on Zoom.

Yes. Thank thank thank you. Good afternoon. I'm Lou Erteschik again.

We think this is a good idea. I mean, if if you think about it, we're sort of living in a bit of a topsy-turvy world that the the state hospital was intended to be a hospital, a treating hospital for people with mental health issues. Just like you break your leg, either go to go to Queens and get it repaired if you had a mental health issue. You could check yourself in before before things got worse.

And the prison was basically meant to deal with, you know, your average hardcore bad guys.

But what you have now is the the state hospital, it's basically dealing with a with a bunch of all criminal defendants essentially. And you have a prison system that's got at least one third or more people with with mental health issues. That a person is not equipped to to deal with them. The hospital has issues dealing with the criminal defendant. So there's a huge role reversal.

Chair Tarnas, I know you've had experience in state government. These are line they're both line agencies, the Health Department, the Department of Corrections, they're do they kinda operate in their own world with their own budget.

But to me, the governor's senior adviser who is above them can serve as kind of an umbrella to kinda get them together and figure out a game plan, figure out what what needs to be done so that makes so that maybe we could actually get people properly treated and and restore the departments back to the purpose that they're have. So it certainly has it'll it'll certainly lead to some improvement. So we think this is a good idea.

Thank you.

Thank you. Office of the governor, Michael Champion.

Aloha, chair and vice chair, members of the committee. My name is Michael Champion, senior advisor for the mental health and justice system in the office of the governor.

Stand on written testimony, commenting, and available for questions if there are any. Thank you.

That is all we have signed up to testify. Is there anyone else wishing to provide testimony? Okay. Seeing none, questions. Rep. Shimizu

Mister Champion, how much of the issue that's being addressed is purely a shortage of funding so that services could be expanded and beefed up?

Thank you for the question. It's it's a matter of what we see now was mister Orchak commented on is a reflection of the need for coordinated planning, action, and implementation. So part of being able to address the needs of people, in the community, personal safety, public safety is using resources, in effective and an efficient way and a coordinated way. So part of it is that in the planning process is assessing where are gaps where we do need additional funding and resources.

And also, what resources do we have available to use in the short term and maximize those to its fullest potential? And then, for the immediate next step, how do we take that action in a coordinated way together with departments and stakeholders providing coordinated services. And then also a plan to address the gaps that we have, whether it's a policy gap or a funding gap that would need financial resources or human resources. So I think it's a combination of things.

And that's just that that's, the those are fundamental elements of, why coordinated plan together as needed.

That, assessment of what we have now, what we need to have, and then, moving forward in the stepwise plan over time.

The chair can ask

a follow-up question. Sure. Thank you.

Thank you for the answer. So I'm sure some of that is being done to some degree at this point. Would you be able to share any obstacles or maybe difficulties in having that coordinated plan implemented?

The first, very important step is to align around an understanding of what the challenge is, what the, issue is that needs to be addressed and solved in the problem. I do believe that over the last couple of years with a lot of attention and dialogue across three branches of government, including the legislative branch, within the executive branch, certainly in the judicial branch, that there's been an alignment and understanding what our challenges are.

You said there's a misalignment.

There is an alignment.

There is

There is an understanding. In addition to that, there is an alignment in that understanding, you know, with stakeholders in the community and private sector and community. We could not make progress unless we would have spent the time aligning around that understanding. So I think we're very well positioned, to continue to do the gap analysis, and determine what we can utilize now with the resources that we have in a more coordinated way. So I'll give

So I'll give you an example.

You know, thank you to the legislature, last year for pass passing an administrative bill that came back 02/19, that provided support for community co response from EMS and CIT officers. I think that's it here in the city of County, Honolulu. They're just able to engage people when they're in the community and bring them into a point of assessment when when needed.

And so what I would say is that if you look back upstream without that policy support and without that coordinated planning, in the community with EMS and CIT and other, health care providers or, facilities, we wouldn't be able to make the progress that we're making.

So I think, it's kind of a long answer to your question. I apologize for that. But, that is a kind of a story of, challenges that we've been able to overcome through aligning our vision and understanding and then taking concrete steps.

And that's one grape on the cluster of, a number of grapes that we need to make movement on so that there is the ability to be in the community, to get an assessment, and if needed, linkage to services back in the community or a placement someplace that matches the level of your needs.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you for all the work you do. Thank you, chair.

Thank you. Questions? Any okay.

Yeah. Thank you for being here. So how do so if we expand the access and create this new, shelter placements, how will we ensure that violent type, you know, I guess the repeat offenders, who are found unfit to proceed aren't just recycled back into community and then that revolving door happens. This doesn't look at as a get out of jail free kind of thing, program. So have you looked into that that may be an issue, a consequence of this?

Yes. Thank you for the question. I think you're flagging a an an important part of the planning process, And that is having appropriate assessments for level of clinical need. That's to do with personal wellness, personal safety. But also an assessment of how that also may impact public safety and having the appropriate placement relative to that.

So right now, as reflected in this resolution, The Hawaii State Hospital is or historically has been that one size fits all solution. So an important piece of developing alternatives, you know, on the front end of being diverted away from that pathway, or once you're at the hospital, then stepping down from it is having good assessments about what the level of risk is to the public, but also, a risk to yourself for what your clinical needs are.

And so part of this coordinated planning is having that assessment availability at each step. So the people are linked to the appropriate level of care that they need at each step.

Okay. And one follow-up? Yes.

Sure. Sure. Oh, okay. Yeah. Thanks.

And so where do you have metrics or any type of, evidence that shows this new plan would actually move mentally the mentally ill defendants, out of the criminal system faster or, you know, more, effectively than the current system in place now?

The approach and plan that's appropriate and needed, we have elements of that now. So I'll just mention a couple of pieces of that. When, a person is in the community and is having a crisis, having needs, it's very important to try to address them and stabilize them upstream. What often happens is people begin to decompensate and, when in crisis, come in contact with a law enforcement officer who is serving as a first responder.

And previously, the law enforcement officers will do what they know how to do, and that is engage folks.

And there was a tendency in the past, to arrest, and then they go downstream through the criminal justice system. So a very important strategy is to be able to identify those folks who can be stabilized at that point and deflected out of arrest into appropriate care.

However, if people do get arrested and, and it's appropriate, that that they're arrested, that downstream, they're in front of a judge, that there's the opportunity to identify the needs that they have because they're then in the criminal justice system and where they go. There is a quite a bit of flow from the courts to the y state hospital related to fitness to proceed because of, people's pressing crisis related mental health issues.

And there's an opportunity to build services there so that, people can be diverted if appropriate into care.

And then also, if they go further into the justice system, that they can't they get the care of the people. So that's the strategy to build that those points.

Okay. Well, thank you for your time and what you do. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

Moving on to our next measure, HCR 54, HR 50, requesting the University of Hawaii Board of Regents to consider renaming Leeward Community College to Pu'uloa Community College. And we have one received one testimony in opposition. There's no one signed up to testify. Is there anyone wishing to provide testimony? Okay.

No one to ask questions of. We've gotten to HCR 122, HR 114 requesting the University of Hawaii to allow the pathway under the Ni'ihau dialect.

Deborah? Oh, Deborah Halbert?

Good afternoon chair, vice chair, members of the committee, Debbie Halbert, vice president academic strategy, UH system. We'll stand on our written testimony with comments. I'm happy to answer questions.

Thank you. That is the only testimony we received. Is there anyone else wishing to provide testimony? Seeing none members, any questions for our testifier? Sure.

Yeah. Thank you.

Our one and only, miss Colbert. You currently already have two courses for an Ni'ihau dialect, don't you?

Yeah. At the University of Hawaii at Manoa, there are courses, it's my understanding. And we have two well, one has recently retired and one faculty member with who who is conversant in the dialect in the Department of Education. Oh, okay.

Okay. I mean, because there's a pathway, I guess, so to speak. There are courses.

I mean, one of the reasons that we suggest potential other permutations besides that pathway, which would lead to some sort of degree, is because we do have courses. You can, take courses in that area, but it it's not necessarily that you get your bachelor's degree in something with that particular dialect. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to, yeah, verify there were already courses. Okay. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you.

Any other questions? Seeing none, we'll move on to CR 96 HR 88. This is urging the Department of Transportation to consider moving to a demerit point based driver's licensing system. Department of Transportation on Zoom. Okay.

Not present. They provided testimony and support. That is the only person who signed up to testify. There's no one to ask questions of, so we will move on to HCR 128, HD 1, HR 120, HD 1. This one is requesting the Department of Transportation in collaboration with the Department of Land, to convene a working group to coordinate capital improvement planning to reduce infrastructure costs for Hawaiian Home Land development.

Transportation. Department of Hawaiian Home Lands.

Aloha, Oriana, of the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. We stand on a written testimony in support of this resolution. We did have an MOU or memorandum of understanding with the Department of Transportation. However, that MOU expired, but we would like to continue the conversation for, points of collaboration, in particular, traffic mitigation projects and cohorts. I'm available for questions.

No problem. Thank you. K. Members, any questions? Oh, anyone else wishing to provide testimony?

Okay. Seeing none. Members, any questions?

Yeah. Thank you, HHL, please.

Okay.

Okay. Aloha again. So act two seventy nine, the 600,000,000, is that, this MOU, was that in, relation to that money that was given couple years back?

I'm not sure. I'd have to double check.

Being it had you know, it was for roadways and drainage and things of that nature. So Right. I was just curious if that was pertaining. But okay. I'll look into that, but thanks.

Thank you.

I'm sorry. Can I ask a question? DOT's testimony says that an additional working group is not necessary because there is already, engaged ongoing coordination. So any comment on that?

I didn't have the chance to review their testimony. However, we appreciate this resolution as a way for us to continue the conversations that are occurring.

Sure. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair

Okay. Moving on to H 017, HR 119. Requesting the Department of Transportation and the Department of Law Enforcement to collaborate, to establish a state highway police force.

Department of Transportation on Zoom not present. They provided, testimony, but they're not here so no one asked questions about. HCR 124, HR 116. Requesting the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands to expand and strengthen financial literacy, credit readiness, and home ownership preparedness program. Department of Hawaiian Home Lands.

Aloha, again. Orianaleal again from DHHL. We stand on our written testimony in support of this measure as our testimony outlines. We're currently partnered with Hawaii Community Assets, Hawaii Community Lending, and Helen Y LLC, to provide financial counseling for our beneficiaries. It's also required for recipients of NAHASA or Native Hawaiian Housing Block Grant funds and also for recipients of direct loans from the department.

But we always recognize that there are ways in which we can improve, and that's why we appreciate this resolution. I'm available for questions. Thank you.

Okay. That is all that signed up to testify. Anyone else wishing to provide testimony? Okay. Members, any questions?

Okay. Then we are moving on to our last agenda item.

Nope.

So for resolution. Oh, nope. I lied. HCR 192, HR 182 requesting the Hawaii Civil Rights Commission to examine the applicability of existing state anti discrimination laws for algorithmic and automated decision systems. One minute.

Oh, no one signed up to testify. We did receive one support, one comments. Okay. No one to ask questions of. Now we are on the last resolution.

HCR179, HR169. Urging the Otho Multicultural Advisory Committee to call its adopted rules of practice with all its statutory duties, including complying with the sunshine law, conduct a performance review of its executive director and establish policies to assure consistent standards of administrative and managerial accountability. There is no one signed up to testify. We did receive written testimony, in support by no. I didn't respond.

11 in support, zero opposed, zero comments. I did ask the DLNR to come just in case there were questions and, acting chair Kanakoli is here. Members, are there any questions before I go to questions?

You go ahead.

Sure. Thank you very much for coming. No problem.

Good afternoon, buddy. Good afternoon. It's good.

Thank you for making it over and over again.

No worries. No worries.

I'll preface before I start questions, just knowing that you recently stepped into the role of acting chair, so you may not be able to answer or speak to all of the questions, but I appreciate you, trying to, fill in

the blanks where you can. Yeah.

In your experience at the DLNR, has are you aware of the AMAT, the multiple advisory committee convening any, meetings of the committee?

I'm not. And I will preface that with I wouldn't well, I typically wouldn't know unless there was some kind of publicly agendized or or notice provided to our office. So as far as I'm like, my offices, I have not been aware of any AMAC meetings. Yeah.

Okay. So I think there was the bill and now there's this resolution and there was like, you know, a history of record building throughout. I think it's fair to say that you've that the sunshine law is applicable to the Otho Advisory Committee. Do you agree with that?

Yes. I do. And

the DLNR and the AFT, the chairperson of the DLNR, is tasked with oversight of the committee. From my understanding, the chairperson's office has viewed that oversight as more of a support role than an actual managerial role. Is that correct?

Yes. I believe that's how we have our relationships with our administratively attached agencies. We provide fiscal HR support as well as support in this regard, like, for Sunshine Law stuff. We have in house capacity to provide support for that too.

But would that require the committee or the committee staff reaching out to the DLNR side and asking for assistance?

We've already, like, provided that assistance, you know, offer. So we're Okay.

Yeah. And with with the bill and, you know, the issues that are being brought up and the resolution, I think I would have expected the committee to convene to discuss these really serious concerns, to be able to take a position and if I leave room for myself to be wrong, but, if are you aware that they have met and been able to discuss these concerns? Okay. The DLNR chairperson is also responsible for the the fiscal side of it.

How are does how does, I guess, your office determine how to, approve any requested expenditures?

Similar to any other division that would submit a fiscal, like, if Kirk were to do it, if Mauna Kea were to submit the same process paperwork, maybe processes process the same, then it run through our fiscal office as far as determination on approval or disapproval, typically, if all the documentation is there, we will approve it. It's not our budget. It's Mahamoku's budget in this instance.

So as long as we have everything compliant with what is required of us on the accounting side, you know, it it should be fine.

Okay. But if the Ahamoku committee has not met, has not there's no documentation that they've approved a budget to be making expenses from, should we still be approving expenditures?

I I would say if there are and that's a good question. If there are so I believe the budget for this L and R program ID, it it would also cover operating expenses for the the sync like, the one employee, which is the executive director. So, for example, travel to and from those kind of operating expenses as well as, you any type of subscriptions for printing services, that kind of thing, that would also come out of that budget as well.

So we would routinely approve those without there being a need for a commission meeting because that's part of the operating operations for the office itself, the AMAC office. But as far as budget requests, I'm and I'm not aware of any that have come to us.

That's fine. Okay. But, typically, you would want the and I'm just gonna use Kirk as an example. Typically, you would want some kind of budget approval by the overseeing board before you process, right, larger expense items. But as far as the operating, you know, those little things for, like, travel expenses, we probably don't need Okay.

Okay.

Necessarily a a a board.

Great. Okay.

So what about for for the salary of the staff? Would you require that there be some kind of record that the committee actually approve the salary?

I would.

So for AMAC

Okay.

Okay. I think, you know, as, like, things go on and more things come up and then there's no records to really reference. I can't find a point in history that the committee actually approved a salary, whether it's an executive session and they come out and they just, you know, say what they did in there.

We're not I'm not the hiring authority. Yes. And so I don't I can't I don't know if there is any that type of

Reputation.

And without the committee approving a budget annually to confirm that they are aware of these things, I'm concerned that is, you know, perhaps that person setting and approving your own salary, I don't know. So that's kind of what I'm, at this point, trying to gain clarity on.

But I understand

I'm clear here as well. Yeah. And and I'll go speak to the experienced advising boards that have hired hired executive directors in other capacities. Typically, that's the process. Right?

When you hire an executive director, they authorize the board will go through the process. They might go into exec session for, you know, q and a with the interviewee. But when they come out on record, they'll typically establish a few things. One, the hiring decision and two, the salary Okay. On on the record.

Then, so one more question and then I'll ask. Sorry. So in a in a previous hearing for this, the it was alluded to by the Ahamoku chairperson that or and also, I think, the executive director that their funding is frozen or unavailable to them, but that's not correct.

We don't have any freezes on our on the account. If the the paperwork, the request for release of funding were to come through or authorized for a purchase, for example, maybe like a flight or mileage reimbursement, we would we would process it the same as any any other. So

Okay. So perhaps just, an inability of understanding, to how to access the budget, not that it's not available to them. Questions, members? Robert, or Shimizu?

Do you wanna call first?

Yeah. Please. Sorry. I have to get

the plane soon. Thank you for being here. And so, yeah, I figured that Ahamoku has been in the last five years has received $1,430,000. They have not held any, public notice meetings, produced no minutes, apparently conducted no performance reviews, Etcetera, Etcetera. So as a newly inducted person to your seat, and hearing all of these concerns and issues, what type of specific steps, I guess, and timeline will you commit to to us and to the people I

think the first step

move forward.

I think the first step right now is to kind of outline where we are in terms of the funds. I don't because there's illusion that there's, like, a lock on funds or freeze on funds. I wanna first make sure that that is not true, and I believe it's not true because I've had discussions with those who actually process this paperwork. So that's one. That can be done in the near term.

In the long term or midterm, I would say the other thing is compliance with the law, the Sunshine Law particularly. And I've already brought on capacity from the chair's office to provide assistance in getting the agendas out in a timely fashion to comply with Sunshine. If and when and I'm hoping that there is a meeting that is convened soon, then we can go through that first iteration of chair's office providing that kind of support moving forward, because we've always been here to provide that support.

And then three, also a midterm project is to get administrative support for the executive director. I know that that has been talked about in the in the their budget.

I don't think that a FTU is actually established. I've been working with our human resources division to at least write the position description, provide the assistance for the executive director so that they can have that reorganization template in hand. So we've already done that work. So I'm hoping to close that loop in the midterm as well.

And then long term oversight on compliance for, like, indefinite.

And so one follow-up. So the actual, I mean, timeline would be by the end of the year. You figure all these things you just laid out would be completed or sooner?

Okay.

I would say by the end of the year or for the reorganization, I'm not sure if we need to come back to the legislature to establish an FD. I believe we do. Maybe there is some kind of method that we can, during the interim, create a special project so that we can get that capacity over to a mobile to provide the support. But if we can't, then, yeah, we'll have to probably table that until next session because, I mean, we're already late in session now.

But that's for one component.

As far as the OIP compliance, we can we'll we will get that. That'll be done as soon as they wanna, you know, convene the actual meeting. So once they there's a polling done and I'm I'm a I defer to the executive director and the committee members on that. But once they want to meet, we will provide the assistance that is necessary to comply with Sunshine Law.

Okay. Very good. Thank you. Thank you for your time and efforts.

I think, perhaps, Garner Shimizu?

Yeah. I think, related to chair and representative Cochran's question is just trying to understand the, the working relationship between DLNR and, AMAC. And what is their accountability, I guess, for lack of a better term. So if you could explain that briefly and also how often do you meet with the executive director?

So first question, account, oversight relationship. So the under the statute, AMAC is an advisory body to the DLNR, and so, and so inputs that we would expect would be, for example, a couple analysis that go through any board action that would impact state lands where there is impact to traditional and customary rights. We would want their input there. And, in fact, individual Board Members or commission members, there's a lot of utility in that because a lot of our projects are moku specific.

And so that would be our first outreach to would be to the ho'o or moku representative on to be that first step to get outreach to the native Hawaiian community. That's one way that we have, like, our relationship. As far as providing recommendations, so we would we we take in the testimony as well as just informal positions of AMAC as as necessary on our projects. So that's how it's the the relationship is advisory.

As far as oversight on the hiring of the executive director, we don't have that oversight.

That would be with AMAC. As far as the administrative attachment, we provide the services as we would any other administratively attached agency, HR, fiscal, and administrative support, like how we're doing now with the compliance with Sunshine. And then to the second question about communications with executive director. So we have they're actually located in our office, in Chair's Office. So it's an annex to the Chair's Office.

Executive director will pop in from time to time to talk about projects that come through. Yeah.

One follow. So I heard you say that they're an advisory to matters that are are in your scope. Yes. So they've been responsive and very helpful to your mission?

I would I would

say mission.

Yes. And I I I think that a lot of this is overlooked in terms of the individuals that are on top of the commission because they represent and, you know, that goes back to, like, place based management. Right? We wanna go to the people from that place to give us the advice on how to actually steward the land there.

And so that would be because we have a network built in place through Ahamoku, we can, through our staff, through chair's office and our staff actually use them can actually reach out to these folks to have that first initial communication.

But that it doesn't stop there. But that's the that first step. And that's actually necessary because we don't have people from everywhere representative within the department. Right? So we rely on the community for that kind of input.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

Thank you. I have a couple more. Yep. Just riffing on rep, Shimizu's question just now. I agree that the Ahamoku advisory committees a lot well, I don't agree necessarily with every single thing, but a lot of the advisory testimonies they put out, I do agree with the position, but what is what is hard about it is that from my understanding and to fully legitimize those positions, these advisory opinions that are official from the board should have been discussed and adopted in an open meeting.

And if that step is being skipped, it risks delegitimizing all of that work and all of that knowledge because, they have not been convening properly to legally adopt the position. So I think but the DLNR still does accept and consider the testimonies regardless.

And I I to on that point, you know, this legitimization of the positions, that's come to light recently, right, with the sunshine law issues that have have come. So at least well, that was very recent.

Yeah.

Yes. We do.

Yes.

I wanna say during the course of this session that the opinion came to us from OIP that Sunshine Law applies to this this group. So now we're working through that. So, hopefully, everybody has to kinda level set, get on the same page, and move forward together on how the process actually is supposed to play out.

Yep.

Thank you. And this is not necessarily directed at you, but I think we've had this commission, committee for ten plus years, paying an employee a significant salary. One of the basic fundamental parts of that that is to follow the Sunshine Law, which it shouldn't have taken this to get them to acknowledge that. But I do appreciate the work that you're doing to help write things. Thank you.

Thank you chair. And more questions, members? Thank you very much for coming.

Thank you. Good seeing you.

Thank you, chair. I will hand it over.

Okay. We're gonna move on to Senate bill 3032, Senate draft one, House draft one, related to beaches. This measure clarifies that the prohibition on the taking or mining of beach or marine deposits, including sand, seaward from the shoreline, includes licensed and unlicensed contractors. First up, we have Surfrider Foundation of Hawaii on Zoom.

Aloha, Chair, Vice chair, members of the committee. My name is Hannah Lilly, and I represent Surfrider Foundation's chapters on Maui, Oahu, and Kauai. We stand on our written testimony in support of this measure, and I'd also like to highlight a few key points. So while existing Hawaii Law clearly prohibits the unauthorized removal or disturbance of sand from public beaches, enforcement undermined for a couple of reasons. So first, there's a lack of awareness, and many homeowners and contractors don't realize that moving sand is a regulated activity.

Instead, they view it as routine or minor maintenance. And second, there is an enforcement gap. In practice, responsibility has often fallen on the homeowners, even when the physical work is carried out by the contractors. So these contractors are the repeat actors, yet they have not always been held directly accountable. So we see this dynamic play out in coastal erosion hotspots like the North Shore On Oahu, where contractors are hired to shore up private property often outside of regulatory processes.

So this is simple bill that addresses the issue in a clear and targeted way, doesn't change or alter what is legal or illegal, and it doesn't, alter existing regulatory framework. So simply clarifies that contractors licensed or unlicensed are also accountable under the law. So mahalo for the opportunity to provide testimony and strong support of this measure.

Thank you very much. Next, Denise Antolini on Zoom. Not present. Anyone else wishing to testify on Senate Bill 3032? If not, questions, members?

If not, we'll move on to the next measure. Thank you to the testifier, Senate bill 2929, Senate draft one, house draft one, relating to public notice. This measure allows government agencies to satisfy public notice requirements by posting notices on notices on official state or county websites while retaining publication as an option. First, let's see. We have we've received five testimonies in support and four with comments.

Ted Kefalas said he wanted to testify. I don't see him. Not present. And then Peter Fritz on Zoom. Mister Fritz, please proceed.

Thank you, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. I'm an attorney and an individual with a disability. I support modernization of public notice requirements. Electronic posting can be one method of providing public notice. My concern in eight d one can be stated simply.

This bill is like handing the keys to a car to someone who has never driven and has never ridden in a car and saying drive. That person has no instructions, no training, no experience, and there's no road map or guardrails. This is what HD1 does. It authorizes electronic notice without telling anyone how to do it correctly. What standards apply?

Who is responsible? Or what happens when something goes wrong? The state calendar is not ready for this bill. There's no funding in this bill to make it ready. New federal ADA accessibility requirement take effect in seventeen days.

Agencies have no guidance clients would require. I've submitted detailed testimony and a suggested HD2 for the committee consideration. My suggestions are straightforward. Before anybody drives, provide the instructions. That could take the form of rules adopted by the enterprise technology services, which already has the statutory authority to set statewide technology standards.

It could take the form of a working group or an advisory committee charged with accessing readiness, reviewing existing contracts, and producing recommendations before the authorization takes legal effect. Either approach would provide the structure that this bill lacks. The goal is modernization. My suggestion is simply that the structure come before the authorization, not after problems arise. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you very much, mister Fritz. Is there anyone else wishing to testify in this measure, Senate Bill two nine two nine? If not, questions, members?

Question.

Mister Fritz, please.

Yes, sir.

Yeah. Thank you for your very, thorough testimony. You know, as as I as I read the bill and I share your concerns, but as I read the bill, it says it allows the government the option of posting digitally while maintaining publication as an option. So if if you were to consider the bill as an optional thing and a concurrent method of communication while in the process moving towards driver's ed using your analogy, would that be acceptable?

My concern is that Maui made a very strong position that they are looking forward to using this as a a a convenience and an economy session. The other thing comes with which one is a legal requirement. So if they publish written notice in a newspaper and also publish it on a website, you have an automatic or potential ADA environment and also a legal sufficiency cause.

So while it's optional, I find it interesting having looked at other states that have done this, that many cases, some of them require publishing a statement saying we're switching totally to electronic. Ohio has a statement in its law regarding how you can correct errors.

So the answer is yes. It is optional. And if every they publish only on the written publications, then all of the law case law is already there. But this transition to an electronic type format brings in new considerations, especially when there's absolutely no information right now about how this is going to be done and no structure in place to do it. So there are a lot of questions that need to be answered.

And I think these could be answered easily if you put together a working group, consisting of somebody like edge Enterprise Technology Services, maybe a representative from the Access Hawaii committee, somebody from SPO because they have had problems with RFPs in the past not being accessible. So I don't wanna go on too long, and I don't know if I've answered your question. If I haven't, please let me know.

No. Thank you. Thank you very much, mister Fritz. Sure.

Okay. Thanks. Any other questions? If not, let's move on. Thank you, mister Fritz. Let's move on to the next

Thank you.

Our last measure, Senate bill 2397, Senate draft 1, relating to neighborhood boards. This measure establishes that when a neighborhood board of the city and county of Honolulu has a vacancy, a majority of all seats that are filled shall constitute quorum to conduct business, and the majority vote of the members present at the board's meeting hall valid meeting shall validate an act of the board as part of its official business. We only have received one piece of written testimony with comments.

Nobody said they wish to testify in advance. Is there anyone here or on Zoom that wishes to testify on Senate Bill 2397? If not, we don't have anyone to ask questions of, so we have a quorum. So let's go to the top of the agenda, and we'll do decision making. I will take the vote if it's okay with you, vice chair, and I'll ask you to go ahead and handle the discussion and calling for

the vote.

Thank you, Chair. HCR15, HR17. I think these resolutions were introduced with the best of intentions, but out of precaution for any unintended effects, I recommend that we defer both of these measures. Members, any questions or comments?

Thank you, Chair. HCR15, HR17. I think these resolutions were introduced with the best of intentions, but out of precaution for any unintended effects, I recommend that we defer both of these measures. Members, any questions or comments?

I'm sorry, sir.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, members. So those two are deferred. HCR22, HR22, recommendation is to pass as is.

Any discussion?

Okay. And, mister chair, please take step as is.

Thank you. On HCR22, HR22, the recommendation is to pass as is. Chair and vice chair vote aye. Representative Belatti?

Aye.

{Vote}

Thank you. Your motion is adopted.

Thank you, chair. HCR146, HD1, HR138, HD1. Recommendations to pass as is. Any, discussion members? Okay.

Share for the vote.

Thank you. Voting on HCR146 and HR1

HCR146, HD1, HR138, HD1.

As is.

Ah, yes. HC HCR146, HD1 and HR138, HD1

As is. Noting the excused absence of representative Hashem, representative Sayama, and representative Cochran, is there anyone voting aye with reservations? Any nays?

If not, recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, Chair. HCR 123, HR 115. Recommendation is to pass as is. Any discussion members? Okay. Vice Chair for the vote when you're ready.

[Roll Call]

Thank you, chair. HCR32 and HR32. Recommendation is passed as is. Discussion members? Keith, chair for the vote.

Thank you. HCR32 and HR32, recommendation is to pass as is. Noting the excused absence of representative Hashem, Sayama, and Cochran. Are there any ayes with reservations? Any no's?

If not, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, Chair. For HCR 54 and HR 50, I do acknowledge we received only one testimony in opposition, but I think it's important to continue the conversation of restoring and how we consider naming places and.

You know, keeping the culture and tradition alive through place names and how we name different buildings and institutions to reflect the place that they're situated in. So my recommendation is to pass with a small amendment. And this is there is a whereas section that references locally, and the amendment is just to reference them in a more historical context. So it'll read on page one, lines 9 to 13.

Whereas Pu'uloa holds deep cultural and historical significance within the moku of Eba on the island of Oahu and is historically known for its abundance of traditional lo'a which sustain thriving communities through established systems of food production and resource management.

Very close to what it currently says, but it just took a little bit to reference a more historical significance. That is the recommendation. Discussion.

Comment chair. To vice chair. I don't oppose the resolution, with its content. I was concerned, however, to see that there wasn't, that much support from the community and being a being a rep from the local. I would like to see more community outreach and more conversation with the various organizations and cultural practitioners within of a before moving this forward, but I will vote yes with reservations.

Okay. Thank you. And I understand. Thank you. Chair for the vote.

[Roll Call]

Thank you, chair. Next is HCR122, HR114. Recommendation is to pass as is. Discussion numbers? Okay.

Hearing none. Chair to you.

Thank you. HCR122 and HR114 recommendation is to pass as is. Noting the excused absence of representative Sayama and representative Cochran. Are there any representatives who wish to vote with aye with reservations? Anyone wishing to vote no?

Thank you, chair. HCR 128 h d one HR 120 h d one. Recommendation is passed as is. Discussion members. Chair for the vote.

Thank you. Voting on HCR 128 and HR 120. Recommendation is to pass as is. Noting the excused absence of representative Sayama and representative Cochran. Is there anyone wishing to vote aye with reservations? Anyone wishing to vote no? If not, your recommendation is adopted.

H C R 127 and HR 119. Recommendation is to pass as is, any discussion Members?

Comment, sir.

Sure. Go ahead.

I don't know poses the intent of the resolution. I do, however, have concerns that we are incapable of filling our position with DLE, with HPD, with other law enforcement agencies. And so I think adding more positions in the wake of having so many vacant positions is is a conflict. So for those reasons, a novel.

Chair, I would agree with a lot of what Garcia said. I was also concerned that DLE didn't testify on their behalf. So I will vote with reservations.

Okay. Anything else? Okay. Chair for the vote....

Thank you. On HCR 127 and HR 119, recommendation is to pass as is, noting the excused absence of representative Syama and representative Cochran. Noting the 'nay' vote from representative Garcia and a 'yes with reservation from representative Shimizu.' Are there any other representatives wishing to vote yes with reservations? Any other votes against? Seeing none, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, chair. HCR192, HR182. Recommendation is to pass as is.

124 and 116

One HCR 100 and twenty four and one hundred and sixty, HR 116. Thank you, representative. As is. Discussion members. Okay. Chair for the vote.

Thank you. Voting on HCR 124 and HR 116. On this measure, chair's recommendation is to pass as is noting the excused absence of representative Sayama and representative Cochran. Is there anyone wishing to vote aye with reservations? Anyone wishing to vote no? Nope. Your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, chair. HCR192, HR182, recommendations passed as is. Discussion numbers? Okay. Chair for the vote.

Thank you. On HCR192 and HR182, recommendation is to pass as is, noting the excused absence of representative Sayama and Cochran. Is there anyone wishing to vote aye with reservations? Anyone wishing to vote no?

No vote.

No vote for representative Garcia. Anyone else? If not, your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, chair. The last resolution, HCR179 HR169, recommendation is to pass with amendments. I think, perhaps, for this session, we've come to the extent of, kind of, uncovering some of the issues with the, with this committee.

But the recommendation is to add language to the title, requesting the auditor to perform a financial and performance audit, and then to add a whereas clause, and be it resolved, resolved, or be it further resolved clauses to reflect that ask of the auditor. So, two whereas clauses and one be it resolved clause. So I will read them.

Whereas questions are written regarding how the committee is able to official, to issue official positions, effectively manage and make salary decisions for their executive director, and review, monitor, and approve budgets and reports to the legislature without formally discussing and adopting positions and decisions in open meetings. Whereas a comprehensive and independent review is necessary to ensure that the operations of the Aha Moku Advisory Committee align with statutory requirements, best practices in governance, fiscal prudence, and the public trust.

Now, therefore, be it further resolved by the House of Representatives of the thirty-third legislature of the State of Hawaii, regular session of 2026, that the office of the auditor is requested to conduct a comprehensive performance and financial audit of the Aha Moku Advisory Committee. I would also reserve technical, non-substantive amendments, if needed, to this language.

Is there any discussion? Okay. Chair for the vote.

Thank you. Voting on HCR179 and HR169. Recommendation of the chair is to pass with amendments. Noting the excused absence of representative Sayama and representative Cochran. Is there anyone wishing to vote aye with reservations?

Anyone wishing to vote no? Your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, sir. I will hand it over to you.

Okay. Now moving on to Senate bill 3032. Senate draft one, House draft one. I would recommend we move this out with technical amendments for clarity, consistency, and style. Is there any question or any concern?

I had a question, Chair.

Yes.

I know there was a different bill, and it allowed the taking of sand for research purposes.

I don't see that in, in the list of approved things. So, I was wondering, is, is that something that we want to add to this resolution?

Yes.

Yeah. I I would prefer just keeping this as is and not mixing the bills. I think they're two separate matters. So that's my view.

Okay. Understood. I'll I'll vote with reservations then.

Any other comments, concerns? If not, vice chair for the vote.

Voting on SB 3032 SD one HD one with amendments. Chair and vice chair vote aye. Representative Filoni. Aye. Representative Hashem. Aye. Representative Kamala. Aye. Representative Sayama is excused. Representative Takayama. Aye. Representative Cochran is excused. Representative Garcia. Reservations. With reservations. Representative Shimizu. With reservations. With reservations. Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, senate bill 2929, senate draft one, house draft one related to public notice. Recommend we move this out with technical amendments for clarity, consistency, and style.

I would like to take the amendments recommended by Peter Fritz, which basically directs this be done through rule making. I don't, with the only exception on his amendments that I won't take, are the detailed amendment under J2 sub paragraph two, A through I. I think that's just unnecessarily detailed and I would like to leave the specifics up to the department, up to the agency in order to to develop the the rules.

I would like to adopt Peter Fritz's amendments except for paragraph J2, subsections A through I. Everything else we'll adopt.

Questions or concerns, members?

Chair?

Yes, sir.

Does does your amendments for Peter Fritz include a suggestion to have a working group?

I will leave that up to the agency because they've gotta come up with rule-making and I would like to, it says in here that direct the office of an enterprise technology services in consultation with the Access Hawaii committee. I think that committee can serve as the initial group, if they wanna expand it, they can do so.

I know that you did some good things on this bill, being a kupuna myself I'm just really concerned that we are leaving a very important demographics behind and I'm not sure what the answer is but I would like to slow the process down. So I'm gonna be voting no on this.

Thank you. Any other comments or concerns? If not, vice chair for the vote.

Voting on SB 2929 SD one HD one with amendments. Representatives Sayama and Cochran are excused. I have a no vote for representative Shimizu. Any additional no votes?

No for representative Garcia. Any with reservations? Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. Final bill, Senate bill two three nine seven, Senate draft one, relating to neighborhood boards. I'd like to move this out with technical amendments for clarity, consistency, and style, and defect the effective date to 07/01/3000. Questions or concerns, members? If not, vice chair for the vote.

Voting on SB 2397 SD one with amendments. Representatives Sayama and Cochran are excused. Are there any voting no? Any with reservations? Recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. There being no further business before us today, we are adjourned.