Senate Standing Committee on Ways and Means

Okay. Calling the 10AM meeting to order. This meeting, including the audio and video of remote participants, is being streamed live on YouTube. You will find links to viewing options for all Senate meetings on the live and on demand video page of our website. In the unlikely event we have to end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene on Monday, April 6, 10:30 in this room.

A public notice will be posted on our website. We would appreciate testifiers stand on the written testimony as the committee has received and reviewed your written comments. For those participating remotely, your audio will be muted and video disabled until it is your turn to testify in an effort to accommodate as many testifiers as possible, we will be enforcing a one minute limit on verbal testimony. A timer will be visible for testifiers.

If there are temporary glitches during your turn to testify, we may have to move on to the next person due to time constraints.

We appreciate your understanding and remind you that the committee has your written testimony. I'll be reading a list of people who submitted written testimony for each measure. We apologize if the closed captioning does not accurately transcribe your names. House Bill 1800 Civil Air Patrol, Hawaii. School Facilities Authority.

Aloha.

How you doing?

Yeah. Well, this is it. Rolecall, what do you because I'm calling you because you

Thank you.

Yeah.

Chief Fujitani from the school facilities authority. Oh.

Did you. What are you doing? Standing on your testimony? Or

Yes.

Okay. Thank you.

Executive office on early learning. Yeah. Thank you.

Department of Education. University of Hawaii.

Oh. Chair. Vice chair. Members. testimony to court. Thank you.

Thank you. Maybe you should have went first. Early learning board.

Aloha from Maui. Elaine Yamashita, chair. We stand on our testimony. Mahalo.

Thank you. Department of Labor.

Morning, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. We stand on our testimony strong.

Thank you. KIRC.

Mike Naho'opi'i, the executive director at Kaho'olawe Island Reserve Commission. On behalf of the commission, we support the measure, and we ask for the generosity of the committee for the fiftieth anniversary of the landings on Kaho'olawe to help sponsor and fund our Kaho'olawe Rehabilitation Center. So we're just looking for CIP money. If there's anything left over, we'll take that, and we're coming with hat in hand. So thank you very much.

Thank you. DHRD.

Chair, vice chair member, Brian Furuto, deputy director DHRD. Thank you.

Thank you. Disability and communication access board. Corrections. Yeah.

I'm the director of DCR. We stand in support. Thank you.

Thank you. Ag and Biosecurity.

Chair, vice chair. I'm here with the department of agriculture and biosecurity. Standing in support.

Thank you. DOT. Thank you. Attorney general.

Vice chair.

Thank you. Office of planning. Library system. Thank you. Business development and support division.

Green infrastructure authority. HHFDC. Department of Health. Thank you. Law enforcement standards board.

Department of taxation.

Good morning. Written testimony in support.

Thank you. DCCA.

Morning, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Dean Hazama, the department stands on its written testimony and full support. Open for comments.

Thank you. Office of Wellness.

Chair, vice chair, members of the committee, Tia Hartsock, director of office of Wellness and Resilience. Please stand on our support. Thank you.

Thank you. Public Housing Authority. Creative Industries. BNF.

Good morning. B&F stands, in support of this bill.

Thank you. Office of the governor.

Aloha. Good morning. Will Kane, office of the governor. We stand in support. We offer comments for two items. Mahalo.

Thank you. Hawaiian Law Enforcement Standards Board. DAGS.

Hello, chair, vice chair, members. Keith Regan, comptroller for the Department of Accounting and General Services. We stand on our written testimony in support.

Thank you. Charter School Commission. DLNR.

Alright.

Thank you. DOE.

Brian Brian Hell on behalf.

Thank you. Green fee advisory council.

Aloha, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. This is Carmela Rosuma from the Green fee advisory council. We sent out our written testimony and are available for any questions. Mahalo.

Thank you. DHL. Thank you. Office of Home Business.

You stand on everything's floor. Thank you.

Thank you. DBED.

Morning chair, vice chair, members, Dimitok Gil, but Vibe stands in strong support of our written testimony, and some of the earlier agencies that you mentioned, sir, are outside and we stand on the understand on their testimony.

Thank you. DHS.

Oh, alright. If I DHS stands out as in support. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities. Green fee advisory council. Jeff.

Aloha, chair. Vice chair, Jeff Michalina, chair of the Green fee advisory council. The council went through a rigorous process throughout the fall to develop the recommendations before you, to fulfill the mandate of Act 96 from last year. Just want to reinforce that the projects were prioritized not only for impact, but for their ability to responsibly deploy funds within the fiscal timeline and leverage existing agency and community capacity.

The resulting portfolio reflects a prevention focused strategy that really reduces long term cost to the state by investing in mitigation, resilience, and stewardship today.

We hope that the committee is able to advance the recommendations, as you have them, in house bill 1,800, and I'm available for questions. Mahalo.

Thank you. Department of Defense. Okay. County of Maui.

Good morning. Director of environmental management. On behalf of the County of Maui, we strongly support this measure and stand by our written testimony, which supports the Central Maui wastewater reclamation facility. Thank you.

Thank you. Spirit Horse Ranch. West Hawaii region of HHSC.

Good morning, chair, vice chair. Clayton McGahn, CEO of West Hawaii Region HHSC, stand on our written testimony. Thank you.

Thank you. HHSC. Okay. Wastewater alternatives and innovations. Catholic charities.

Oh, go ahead. I don't know what happened to them. Yeah. Go ahead. Thank you.

Kupu. HTDC. Yeah.

Full in support.

Thank you.

On behalf of Kupu, we stand with our written testimony here.

Thank you. Keahu. Enchanted Lake Residents Association.

Gregory Colbert, president of the Enchanted Lake Residents Association. I would like to take some time

to Yes. Go ahead.

First of all, I'd like to thank all the lawmakers who supported this important initiative. And I'd like to talk about a project that may not have been included among the recommendations of the advisory panel, but this is an important project. This is the dredging of Ke'elepulu stream. A 500 foot section of the stream that has a shole that blocks water from escaping from Ke'elepulu pond down the stream. In this most recent flood, the lake level, of Ke'elepulu Pond, also known as Enchanted Lake, rose to a very significant level. It invaded some of the, it overran some of the seawalls, invaded some of the yards.

We, the Enchanted Lake Residents Association, have been planning a project for several years.

We have worked with Oceanit to do all the planning. We've obtained the necessary army corps of engineer permits. We've gotten concurring approval from the State Department of Health. We're simply, simply sitting in a situation where we're needing more funds to complete the project appropriately. We're asking for $700,000 of funds.

We would note that in 1994, there was a hydrology study done that said that the stream that goes from Ke'elepulu Pond up to the ocean can support flood mitigation for this windward area, but it needs to be eight foot deep through that stream. There's a plug area due to some sedimentation and also a result from when the lake was initially created. They had a sort of a berm area that they used for blocking off some water. At least

depth Can you just summarize or conclude?

That depth is only one foot deep. And so we if there's a significant risk to the, the residents in that area, like to show for instance, a map or a picture of the water rising up above sea levels, encroaching into some yards. It didn't make it all the way into some houses. So luckily, we didn't have that particular thing. But if the, if the intensity in our area had been the same as Waialua, we would have had some catastrophic flooding.

Who owns the stream?

The the stream is owned by a nonprofit, which is the Intended Lake Residents Association. I would note that we are not a homeowners association. We are 503 c seven social club that took over the lake from Bishop Estate in 1987 in order to preserve the the the lake itself. And so that that area is owned by a nonprofit.

Okay. Just a question. Short short question. Thank you for being here. The city and county, did you ask them as well to participate in funding this project?

Reason I say that in the early well, the the creation of that subdivision was built in the sixties and the fifties. It was built on flood zone. So the flood the housing were built on a flood plain zone. I'd like to reiterate my position, which is approved by the city and county. So I'm just asking if you also have asked the city for partial funding.

We have. And Have you heard? We've gotten a noncommittal, not a definite no, but certainly not a yes. And the the 1994 hydrology study was done by the city, and the eight foot depth was put in a footnote in the back because they kind of

Yeah. We're we're sorry for the problems you're experiencing now, but thank you so much. Your residential association has been very good about helping each other. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

Thank you. I will note that

open. Thank you. You could come up with some parts. Thank you. Commission on the status of women.

Hi. Yes. Good morning, everyone. The commission will stand on its written testimony, and thanks to the committee for their consideration and support.

Thank you. Kahana based steering committee. Mike, Nugent. Grassroots Hawaii. Climate Hawaii.

Hawaii Search and Rescue Alliance. Oh, go ahead.

Thank thank you, Chair Dela Cruz, vice chair Moriwaki, committee. I wanna just, I'll be brief, but I do want to, emphasize the testimony of Climate Hawaii. I'm the Chair of Climate Hawaii. It's a diverse coalition of business, government, and nonprofit leaders focused on, addressing Hawaii's growing climate challenge. We we stand in strong support of the funding proposals from the Green Fee Advisory Council.

We think that the process was a very, comprehensive and thorough process to identify, some of the high priority climate, projects for the state. I do wanna emphasize that our testimony today is submitted not just, by the leadership of Climate Hawaii, but everybody that is listed on the testimony specifically signed on to it, including such diverse organizations as Outrigger Hotels, Zephyr Insurance, Power Hawaii, as well as the Nature Conservancy, Hawaii Green Growth, Kobayashi Group, and we strongly recommend your support of the funding as recommended.

Thank you. Christina Holt. K. Anyone else wishing to testify on House bill 1800?

Go ahead.

Yes. You skipped over me.

Rosemarie hi. This is Rosemarie Johnson. I am the director of the Hawaii Search and Rescue Alliance. Aloha, chair Dela Cruz, vice chair, and, committee members. Thank you very much.

Your camera.

There you go. And I stand on my written testimony and with, I just would like to add that in light of the Kualoa storms and the Maui wildfires that this, state search and rescue coordinator is more urgent, than ever and should be considered a disaster response priority. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Okay. I just have a question for well, I have couple questions. Oh, go ahead. You can state your name.

Good morning, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. HHSC stands on our written testimony and support. I think there may have been a little bit of a technical difficulty when you called us.

Thank you. Thank you. K. Anyone else wishing to testify? Okay.

Good morning, chair.

Quick question for UH.

Thank you. Just real quick. So with cigarette tax revenues down from lower consumption, what's the plan to stabilize the cancer center and promote financial self sufficiency?

Well, right now, we're trying to find efficiencies between between JABSOM and the cancer center. They do occupy an existing the same property. We're also looking to see if there can be some kind of financial assistance provided by Manoa in the meantime for the cancer center in order to get them through this period of time when the cigarette tax is currently held just for debt service and not for operations.

So when are you guys gonna have a finalized plan that you can present to us?

I don't know the exact date line, but I will work with the cancer center in order to final finalize a plan for you, to show how we can stabilize that situation.

Chair.

If you're done with.

Yeah, Go ahead.

I just wanna state, you know, many years, we have tried to consolidate the JABSOM and the cancer center to save funding, and it didn't occur. So I'm hopeful that you folks are gonna make it happen because, you know, this is ongoing and UH keeps fighting it. So I I know that your study that said it should have been combined.

I I know that there is effort right now that's going on to try to find those efficiencies, chair, and we will get that information to you as soon as it's available for sure.

Are you guys looking at performance contracting as well that can save, save monies as far as efficiencies and, and utilities?

But it's something that we can definitely, I have not personally looked at it, but it's something that I can touch base with operating business units to find out if we can start looking at those types of things.

Cause your, your community colleges did that, and they did a lot of savings, and they had a lot of of efficiencies that is occurring as of today. So I hope you folks will follow suit. I know Manoa didn't wanna do it, and your community colleges did it. So

We'll, we'll certainly take a look at that, Chair.

Yeah. Thank you. Office of the governor.

Morning, Sir. Morning.

I guess what we're trying to get is a timeline to receive the cost estimates for the flood disaster recovery belief efforts.

So we're in process now. Actually, it just came from the latest meeting of that. So the HIEMA and FEMA went out this weekend. The the counties have already been conducting their own. The teams went out to do the assessments.

As you may know, FEMA is a little delayed, in their responses, but our teams are working as we're hoping to have that, if not this week, the beginning of next to get at least the initial estimate of what the the disaster may look like. We have individual reports from the department so far, but we want to provide a a comprehensive list to the legislature.

Okay. So you're thinking by Wednesday, Tuesday?

By next week. Yes. Yes. As soon as we're working on it. They work straight to the weekend.

We're working on it as fast as we can. So, hopefully, we can have it beginning of next week.

Okay. Do you think you can give us preliminary numbers by Monday?

Yes. Because we're gonna probably take up the budget next week, finalize it, but we're waiting we wanna wait to see what those numbers are gonna be. Absolutely.

I think so.

K. One follow-up question with regards to FEMA as well. And my understanding is, Mister Cherry, is that your theme theme arrangements and communication has to be done while we're in session.

So just to let you know that when we did the 2006 project a program I mean, the disaster that we had when I worked with civil defense, senior Senator Inouye made sure that we had all the figures done prior to the prior to session ending, and that had to go to FEMA during our lifetime here at the legislature.

Sure.

Thank you.

Yes. Absolutely.

Thank you, Jeff.

So your process is gonna be what? That everyone consolidates to the governor's office and you'll send us, or is it gonna go and speak?

Yes. So we like to so we have our team in place, that's already working on this, under, HyEMA, general Logan, those things. And so we're pulling it all together, and then we would like to also come with you come to you with some recommendations about how we could begin to fund. Because there's money going out the door already, right, with the the activation of the National Guard and all those things that we're having to pay.

And, you know, at this point, nothing's coming in from the feds.

So we'll come to you right away.

Do you know how much the state has spent so far?

I don't know off the top of my head, but I know we're spending and I could have maybe general Logan's here. But we've probably spent anywhere from half 1,000,000 to $1,000,000 or so just initially.

Okay. But the process is that people the counties, the state departments, I guess, even private landowners, they all provide their numbers to

So the private side, I don't think we're gonna have that ready yet. Right? So this is state facilities. The counties are doing their own. They're they're and we're working hand in hand with them, but they have their own process for the state.

We're looking at state facilities, state impacts, bringing that in. So schools, roads, far you know, all those things. And then we're also working the private side to figure that out. We're not gonna have the private side by Monday. I'll tell you that right now.

Like, we can have estimates maybe, but it's it's it's a difficult, slow process, laborious process. So Well,

if we can get estimates, then we can at least put a placeholder in.

Right. Absolutely. And I think so. We can have a little tighter estimate, on the state side and a, you know, a a looser estimate on the on the private side.

So the process is that onset data is gathered. It goes to Haima, and they verify if it qualifies or not.

Right. So there yeah. So that's that was the meeting we actually just came for. So we're we're going through the process to make sure we can, as much as we can, follow the process of FEMA to hopefully get reimbursement. Now whether we do or not, that's gonna be a different discussion because of changes.

Right? But that's the goal is to and and luckily the I say luckily, but unfortunately, the team is experienced in this, and so they should they have the experience as far as following that FEMA process to look for the maximum reimbursement.

Okay. So what about the cost they cannot get reimbursed that they're that Haima is going through now?

Right. So, I mean, that's that's the discussion I think we're going to have. We're gonna have to have with the legislature to figure out there. We know there's definitely gonna be a state share, right, with in any of these disasters. I don't think we're going to see, and I I don't I'm speculating a little bit, so I but I don't think we're gonna see the 100% reimbursement the day after.

I mean, so if you look at Lahaina, the day after Lahaina, the president declared the gave the declaration disaster declaration. We've been how long already, and and that hasn't happened. I don't know that we don't know the timeline for that. So all that to say is the state will probably bear a significantly larger burden than we would have had previously in other disasters, but we don't know those numbers yet.

Okay. Thank you. Sure. Follow-up. Quick question.

You know, Will, as you're discussing this, we were just at an informational briefing concerning agriculture. After the first low estimated 25,000,000, now we're probably north of 60,000,000. Are those numbers of as far as losses for the agricultural infrastructure, all that, are those numbers being brought to governor's office as well and be included, or is that coming through a different angle?

So I would actually refer to our ag chair. But I think what we're going to try to do is we're we're going to try to aggregate these numbers. We're pulling all the departments in to make sure we're following a process. But the priority is gonna be the state and then the the private to try I mean, they're they're they're running parallel to each other, but we can get one first, and the other one will take longer.

But as far as that, I know the and I mean, the ag department, I believe, is following up already.

So all that to say, we are going to try to get those numbers in so we can report back to you.

Yeah. So we can get it back to churn.

We can get out there and see what we can do for the ag. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you, Jerry.

Sure. No problem. So with prioritizing the state and the city facilities, what is the actual damage to the state and city facilities that maybe could go a little slower to take care of the people that is suffering now and getting help to them now instead of, wait. Let's go fix up the city and state stuff first and the roads. But then, you know, the guys over there gotta wait in the mud and in the mosquitoes and everything else.

I mean, you know, I understand what you guys saying, but that's not what the community wanna hear. And we like to take care of our state stuff first, taxpayers later. Taxpayers is paying for the state buildings to be fixed and the city buildings to be fixed. We gotta them. Right.

Not not state and city facilities.

So, Senator, I think maybe I maybe I misstated or misunderstanding. So Explain. What I was saying is that we can get a a quicker handle on the impacts to the state and county facilities before we could do that quicker to understand the the financial impact to those facilities before we could figure out the the the count excuse me, the private sector, the taxpayers, the residents. However, the response that we're doing is geared all towards the residents. Right?

So all the programs we've launched, Department of Ag launched the Ag grant program. We're looking at a small business grant program. We're looking at, you know, every all the surge that we've done to provide the resources for the food bank for for a housing. We've got we still have the Scofield Inn. So our priority is the residents that have been affected by this completely, utterly.

I'm just talking about what Senator the chair has asked was give us some estimates on the fiscal impacts. And so we can get those easier than we can the the the the community. But to Senator Richards, what he was asking, we're doing that the exact same time, and we're responding to the community and trying to help them out. So you're absolutely right, Senator. We need to we need to help them.

Thank you, chair.

Short short question. Thanks, Will. Governor's office supports hb 1,800. However, in your your comments, you did note that there are two objections to the budget. Can you explain?

Sure. So one of them has to do with a statutory requirement for us to submit for transitional costs. So it's a $100,000 whenever there's a election for the for the the gubernatorial election. And, again, hopefully, we don't need that.

But that's for 2027.

This is for '20 yeah. The transition the end of the the election this year into 2027. So it was not included in the HD one version of the budget, so we're just requesting that as as we're required to do. The other one is, and I think there was a testifier earlier, it has to do with the search and rescue, position that was put in. So governor totally supports that idea.

But as you know, positions, you know, attaching these kind of agencies or departments to the office of the governor, they don't make sense. We're here to execute with the departments. And so we had recommended that this be put where it should be in. I think it was was it DLNR or HCC. But, anyways, another appropriate agency, not the office of the governor.

Yeah. Thank you, chair.

You know, going back to the stream cleanup, who enforces the fact that the counties are supposed to oversee clearing the streams or finding private landowners for not clearing streams?

That, I don't know. I could maybe ask the attorney general's office to come up or DLNR. She lives. She left.

DLNR. Yeah.

Okay. Maybe you can just talk about

We can follow-up. Sure. Sorry. I I don't It's dead. Come ahead.

You know, it seems like there's quite a bit of streams out there that haven't been dredged Right. For quite some time.

Can I add to that too? When the Manoa Stream happened several years ago, I think there was immediate help with the community, and I'm can't remember who did help with the cleanup, but they did an emergency cleanup.

Yeah. And I know and, again, I just sort of but I know DLNR was has been out in the community. I know there's another other state departments that have been assisting, and we're, you know, we're standing up as part of this thing, the part of the process of recovery, DCMP, the workers to folks for caseworkers to get folks the the the things that they need. Right?

So either bring them into state programs, whether it's TANF, whether it's, you know, whatever that looks like as far as to help the residents directly.

So we're we're working on that as well.

Okay. Maybe if you can follow-up on the the enforcement team, Genevieve. Yes. Okay. Quick question for judiciary.

So you guys had asked for, I think, a little more more than $3,000,000 for security.

Yes, sir.

So what are the national best practices for courthouse security that include training and equipment?

The national there are several different kinds of best practices. The first one, and I think probably the primary one for this, would be the number of staffing and the location of staffing of, you know, security personnel in our courthouses.

So Yeah.

So it'd be But are you guys working with DLE on those standards?

We have been sharing with and communicating with DLE about the standards. Yes.

Okay. So they cannot absorb the taking on that responsibility?

At this time, yes.

That's correct. Yeah. We're gonna we can follow-up with them.

And oh, okay. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Chuck.

And you wanna come up real quick? This is about the enforcement of stream cleanup. Do you know do you do you know the law?

I don't know the law. And I apologize for leaving, but I was on a great

You need to sit down and sorry. To be recorded.

But I was on a great call, about the, potential lawsuit on the mail in voting executive order that was just passed. But I don't know the law about the stream cleanup.

I have a question.

Understanding is that it's the county that is responsible for cleaning pub public streams and enforcing and finding private landowners for not cleaning their street their portion. But you guys need to check. Is that

We can check it out. I and I do know that Department of Transportation is working on some of that stream cleanup right now to get some

larger materials and debris out of the way. Sure.

of the

I mean, with my quick read of the law, doesn't have any type of penalty for the counties if they don't actually follow the law. Okay. That's something that we might need to look at.

Yeah. And and I'll we'll also talk with DLNR. Is DLNR here?

But it's taking

a Zoom. Ryan? Hiro.

Do you

know any more than that than I do? And Kira? These two may have more information than

me. Regarding enforcement authority

Ryan, you're gonna have to speak on the mic.

Ryan Kanaka'ole, DLNR. To my right, also DLNR. Regarding enforcement authority over streams, DLNR. Oh. I can't read the stat.

It's it's too small.

Yeah. Can you summarize? Sorry.

Hi. Kira Kahohane, Mission on Water Resource Management. Responsibility for maintaining stream channels falls under HRS 46 dash 11.5. So under that statute, it's the responsibility of each of the counties to provide for that regular and routine maintenance. Some of the counties actually have, like, here, City And County Of Honolulu has in their ordinances, specific county ordinances that allow them to enforce stream maintenance responsibility, whereas other counties rely just on Chapter 46.

I'm not aware of any enforcement authority. The commission doesn't have enforcement authority regarding stream maintenance. We do encourage people to undertake it voluntarily. I would need to confer with department of the attorney general regarding any kind of enforcement power or fines.

And to my knowledge, nor does the department overall have enforcement authority. I mean, we do have streams and jurisdiction of the certain parts of streams, and and that's our liability and responsibility.

Can I add as well if DOT is involved in helping out with the clearances

It's not about who's helping, who Yeah? But I think whose responsibility is it?

But I think if DOT already as energy as its sniffing is, he's gonna call his people to help clean. Just make sure that you have the amount of charges of what is involved so that we can collect from the city and county just as an exact just to add. And make sure he makes

Okay. So it says here that it shall be the responsibility of the county to maintain all channels, stream beds, stream banks, and drainage unless channels, stream beds, stream stream banks, and drainage waste are privately owned or owned by the state. But who enforces to make sure that the county does that? Because it doesn't seem like that's been, you know, happening.

Currently, we don't have at DLNR, we don't have the statutory enforcement authority.

See the county's responsibility. Yeah.

Well, there's some liability too because if DOT is going in

No. But the commission is who enforces. Yeah. But Who enforces to make sure that the county does what the statute says.

Exactly. But I'm talking about maintaining it, like, immediate. So they're already doing it. Yep.

So make sure they have a cost factor.

Yep.

Yes. They're having

So that there's a billing but there's also a liability.

But I think that we should be relooking at this because there should be mandatory annual evaluations or every five years. Because when I looked at the county's website, I mean, the account like, as you mentioned, the ordinances show that d DFM is supposed to have a running list online of when they actually review the stream either annually or semiannually, and then they're supposed to list it on their website. So I saw 2021, and I saw 2025 and not every stream.

But I'm not sure who requires the county to actually follow the state law.

Question. So in the event that the stream overflows and causes damages, whether it's a state, city, or a private entity, is is there a responsibility that that we have to the government, the city, or the state, or the private entity has to pay damages to these people?

That's a question of liability and who is

That's right.

And I'll defer to a council.

I imagine we would get sued. Whether or not there's a basis for that suit, I think, will vary depending on what the facts are. Okay.

So if it's a private entity and

and they have damages, the government's not responsible for for their damages or to fund any kind of repairs? I would say generally not based on what you what you just said. I think what would happen is is if there was damage from the stream, we would need to look at what was in the stream that caused the damage. If it was just an overflow and nothing else, then I don't think the city

about it could be neglect, though. Right? Because if we if it's not cleared and sentiment goes up and then now you have flooding because the the water can't flow out.

Again, if that's a city obligation, then that would be we would say that they're liable for this. I'm getting text messages that might have answers to some of these questions.

So And it says that the city can actually find a civil penalty not to exceed $500 each day, but I'm not sure when was the last time they actually did that.

And they would they would levy their fines on the on the private entity. Yeah.

Yep. Yeah.

Or the Well,

according to the the statute, but I'm not I'm just asking when was any of this done and how who checks?

I don't know who checks. My text is saying, though, that it is correct. If it's a private stream owner and there's damage, they're liable. If it's the county and it's their neglect, then they're

liable. And then the last big storm and stream that overflowed was the Manoa case. So maybe you can review that as well. Right.

Okay. Right now, in case of shorelines, right, DLNR has the authority to go in and enforce when you have private property owners that are, for example, growing vegetation that blocks

Yes.

Access, that sort of thing. In the case well, in certain stream cases, would something like that be what you'd imagine be helpful?

That type of enforcement authority?

Yeah. Where there's not where counties might have obvious responsibility, but in other cases where there's a clear public risk, where there's a private property owner that might otherwise not be

I have a problem.

Doing anything.

Public requirement. We're really fascinated.

It seems like there's a gap in that enforcement authority now. So if if that if that was the prerogative of the legislature to provide that authority, then I mean, I'm assuming that it would fall upon

The county has to be enforced.

Either my department as speak because of that who's making sure that the the information public lands.

And we would be public

that's why I'm asking for that. Yeah.

Yeah. So the law needs to be reviewed, I think. Yeah. Because, obviously, streams aren't getting cleared on a regular basis and which are it's causing quite a bit of problems.

Yeah. Okay.

Sure. It's just a follow-up. Question. Question. Yes.

The question the question is, your department and the city department has complaints, but the part is who follow-up with the complaints of these areas. I'm only gonna talk on the West Side.

That's what I know. But that's what we're asking. Yeah.

So the law needs to be changed because right now, the the state doesn't have any oversight in finding the counties or holding the counties accountable for for for this statute.

And even private homeowners that backfilling the

Yeah. So all of that is right now is all in the county. But who make sure the county does their job? Right now, there there's nothing. It's silent. And so that's where I think we're gonna have to look at changing this law to make sure that this is being followed through on and implemented.

And I was supposed to do on the website.

No. It's supposed to be. So the county ordinance so shows that it needs to be on the website, but I only found two years. Okay. I guess we need we should probably review that, though, because there there's huge budget impacts.

You know? It's cheaper to clean it even semi regularly instead of what we're in the situation we're in now.

I did. Chair, I did I got confirmation that nobody in the state has authority to enforce those things. So over the summer break, we can work with DLNR

Or if if and DOT.

If we if we find a bill. We find a bill.

Yeah. If you find one, send it down to us. Yeah.

Okay. Department of Ag.

Good morning. Morning.

Good morning. Okay. So right now, I our understanding is that only and DOT have lobbying contracts for the Federal Government. But your department was in the process of a procurement for a contract, and then it was online. And then what I'm not sure what happened.

If you can explain Sure. How the solicitation was removed or amended in the procurement portal online.

Sure. We were in discussion because the new with the act 231 and 236 there were some additional responsibilities for the department, particularly the biosecurity director that was to come online 01/01/2027. And I wanted to be sure as chair that the new biosecurity director had some prep for that position and then some onboarding.

But why does it have to be a lobbying contract for the

It wasn't. It wasn't. I'm sorry. So we were in discussion, and my first thought was, hey. We go sole source.

And while I while we were in discussion, very efficient staff put together some stuff. We all worked and then found out during the process that it wasn't gonna be talking through procurement, bad idea. We're not gonna go sole source. Then we said, well, the amount of funding that we're asking is over the limit for the budget execution policy, so we have to reverse.

So what's the contract supposed to be for?

Original sole source was eighteen months for $2.50.

250,000. Yep. And the responsibilities were to just do what?

Responsibility was legislative and to lobbying. Well, well, because

Why, why are

Oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that. You're right. It would have been that would have been the initial, but we found out that that wasn't probably a good idea. You have to be outside of

But you already have a position that helps with legislative.

We do.

So why do you have to contract another position to do that?

That person was going to work with staff and prepare the biosecurity director for deputy director for the the department and what we're working on with biosecurity with regard to biosecurity, and it was to establish a from the border in to control, like, PBC, plant based control, from the border out.

And that person was going to work with those two eight those two other staff that we were going to hire and prepare the the groundwork for 2030 when we take on the HISC and all the others. So

Yeah. And the MQs for that were what? Because that seems quite technical.

Yes. So we were going to do another RP for Who

does your your legislative affairs know?

It would be Cedric Cedric Gates.

He's a employee?

No. Not in not right now.

When is he?

He's on his own.

So you contract him?

No. Right now, his last day was sometime in February. Yeah. Yeah.

So That means he doesn't do it.

He doesn't do it.

Yeah. So I asked you who is doing it.

Oh, Cedric is actually helping out the department.

For free?

I'm, I don't pay him. The state does not pay him.

I spoke with him, and he is volunteering to help.

Who was paying him before? The state. He was serving as the in a planner position as the administrative assistant and, executive assistant type of of Teburo because the the as the law the whole legislative process is very familiar to him, and he was meeting with every administrator asking them what their needs were. I don't wanna use the word intimate, but it was intimate because he really got down into the nitty gritty of what they needed. And

Who's taking his place?

Right now, we don't have anybody.

So that position is vacant?

His position, the plan of five, right now, I think I'm gonna say it's a eighty, ninety hire. His name is Riley, and he's helping us with, like, for instance, the small business bill that's going through right now. I've asked him to contact us, commissioner Psyche, and he's working with the National Insurance Board to try to get some data on who in the in The United States has any kind of small business insurance to help farms and small businesses recover from this type of disaster.

So we have a meeting scheduled. I think it's April 4.

We have a Zoom call. So he's doing that kind of work. It's it's it's legislative. It's processes, but it's not really lobbying because he's doing the internal legwork.

So he doesn't come to the capital?

He does.

Oh, so it is lobbying?

He represents us. Like, he'll stand up and say, when when no one else can be there, he'll say, I stand and say I

think according to the ethics definition, that is lobbying. If you're here at the capital

As he does get paid, though. He's an employee.

But if you under go look up what a registered lobbyist does. I will. I think well, you might have to intervene. Yeah. Thank you.

And only if he claimed as a status that he's a lobbyist because he has to register anyway.

I I think the definition is if you if you're meeting with so many people and he's 89 day hire, he's a contract. So he's not an employee.

He's a 89 day temporary hire. But as I said, I've I put him on other con other, work as well.

That's fine, but you might wanna go look up what a registered lobbyist is specifically. But you're saying he doesn't lobby?

I'm gonna say he stands and he represents the department as as his 89 day status allows him to do.

Okay. Okay?

So he he erred then because he was volunteering, but you're saying he's an 89

No. No. This is is another general.

Oh, for or the other guy. Got it.

Yeah. Okay. That's just gonna be a brick wall. There's no sense in rehashing the same thing. Okay.

Thank you. K. Any questions for any of the departments? Okay. The, committee received quite a bit of testimony, and to provide the committee with sufficient time to review and hopefully get the numbers from the administration on the the impacts for the recent Kona low disaster.

We'll defer decision making to Wednesday, April 8, 10AM in this room.

No.

Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna adjourn.

And then for the committee, we just have couple of more agendas.

Okay. Calling the 10:01 agenda to order. This is house Bill 2095 and we'll also be deferring to Wednesday, April 8th, 10:01, in this room. Adjourned.

Okay. This is the 10:03 agenda. This starts with House Bill 1166 and ends with House bill 2599. Okay. So, we got quite a bit of testimony on all of these items.

So, before we make final decision making, we want quite a, a little more time to review testimony and decide if we need to make amendments or not. So, we'll defer this agenda or the items on this agenda to Monday, April 6th, 10:31 in this room. Thank you.