Senate Standing Committee on Agriculture and Environment

Hello, everyone. We've got a lot of things to get covered on our agendas today. We have five agendas for the Committee on Hawaiian Affairs. I'm going to gavel in well, we just gaveled in on our one o'clock hearing, then we're going to recess and go into the 101 agenda, which is what we share with committee on water, land, and culture. And that way, we're gonna try being expedient, move things along.

So with that, we're gonna go into recess on the one o'clock. Hello, everyone. This is the Committee on Hawaiian Affairs and the Committee on Water, Land, and Culture and the Arts. It's a joint hearing between the, the two committees. Thank you, Chair, for joining us, Vice Chairs.

We have three measures on this agenda. First one is led by Hawaiian Affairs. So with that, we have House Bill 1087, House Draft 2. Testifiers. Testifiers. First, we have Danica Patel from the Attorney Generals on Zoom. Or come up, identify yourself, and you have one minute.

Okay. I hope I don't need that long. Good afternoon, Chair Richards, Chair Lee, Members of the Committees. I provide a comment solely on the basis that two acts that passed in 2025 amended the language that this bill seeks to amend.

Not the same amendments, different amendments. But so if this bill is to move forward, it should be amended to reflect the language in those two acts. I sincerely apologize. I believe my testimony was late. And if you, did everybody get copies of it? I brought many copies.

We got it. It made it to the system, and I looked at your amendments, and I like those. So thank you.

Thank you very much.

Okay. Next, we have Jessica Puff.

Good morning, Chairs, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Jessica Puff. I'm the administrator of SHPD, and we stand on our written testimony and comments as submitted. We're here for any questions.

Thank you. Moving on. Kali Watson, DHHL.

We'll stand on our testimony.

Thank you, Director. Leialoha Makuanani. No? I don't see you. All right. And then Keanu Binney-Medeiros.

My name is Keanu Binney-Medeiros. I'm a lineal descendant of Kealakekua Bay and a proud Hoa’āina of Kealakekua Nui. I'm here and I stand on my written testimony in support of this measure. Mahalo.

Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the room that wants to testify on this measure? Committee Members, any questions?

Seeing none. Okay, next measure we will be turning over. This will be led by Waterland, so I'll be turning this over to committee Chair Lee.

Thank you. Moving on to HB 2101 relating to commercial aquarium collection. It exhibits the harvest of aquatic life for commercial, commercial aquarium purposes in counties with a population greater than 200,000, less than 300,000. Ultimately, we have a number of folks signed up to testify so we're gonna try and get through everybody here that's both in the room and on Zoom.

Again, we emphasize we'll be limiting the length of everyone's testimony to make sure that everyone does have a fair opportunity to testify. After the list of folks has testified, there is always an opportunity for the committee to ask questions.

So we also have all the written testimony. So let me reiterate that appreciate hearing from everybody, but we do need to get through to get to the other agendas that the Hawaiian Affairs Committee is working on. So with that, up first is the Department of Land and Natural Resources.

The department will stand on his written testimony.

Thank you. Signed up next is Moana Ohana.

I'll stand on my written testimony and provide a real quick comment that in light of what's going on throughout our state, that this is an ideal time to have a precautionary approach and support these rules to prohibit the take of recordings issue throughout the filing. Thank you. Appreciate that, chair.

Thank you. Up next is Koma Kanikaina Nakahu. Oh, I probably butchered that. Not in the room. Kai Kuleana?

Aloha, my name is Malia Kipapa, representing Kai Kuleana Network. Just in support strong support of the aquarium fish trade being banned from Hawaii Island. So we're a collective of 15 different organizations and then your descendants from West Hawaii, entirely against the fish trade in Hawaii. So we are here today to stand collectively in support of this bill. Mahalo.

Thank you. Signed up next is Earthjustice. And it's followed by Hoʻāla Kealakekua Nui.

I just

Aloha, chairs, vice chairs, and committee members. Kylie Wager Cruz, Earthjustice. We stand on a written testimony in strong support with amendments to revert back to the original version and ban commercial aquarium collection statewide.

Just next week, DLNR will hold public hearings on rules to reopen West Hawaii to aquarium collection. This is new news that underscores the urgency and need for the legislature to act in this moment.

No legal collection has occurred in West Hawaii since 2017 or anywhere else in the state since 2021. Passing this measure would prevent the floodgates from reopening. The collectors claim rights to collect because they've completed EISs. This is legally wrong. EIS acceptance does not equal permit issuance.

An EIS is an informational document meant to inform permitting decisions, not dictate them. Only West Hawaii has an accepted EIS. Oahu does not, so it's not even in the running for any permits at this time.

Collectors extracted over 8,600,000 fish over four decades from our reefs for a measly $100 annual permit. Preparing EISs was the least they could do to start looking at impacts.

Times up if you can.

And, I will just mention that many community members have traveled from Ground 0 in West Hawaii and Windward Oahu to provide reasons additional reasons for a ban.

Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity to testify.

Thanks, chair. Aloha. Shane Nelson from Kealakekua Bay. And, here to just stand on a testimony and I've been providing testimony previously as well in support of the, of this bill of this measure. And just wanted to reiterate that the difference between commercial pet trade versus commercial subsistence, there's a difference between that argument.

And we're not here to be against people trying to be subsistence providers. However, the pet trade industry is extractive. Just like the Kollel bird that's native to Alaska, that comes down annually and they eat up all of our resources and then they leave. And that's extractive. There's no reciprocation in the process.

So I'm here to stand really firm and strongly in support of HB 2101.

Thank you.

Thanks, chair.

Up next is Tunningley Marine, in person. Ko`olaupoko Hawaiian Civic Club.

Sorry, Ko`olaupoko Hawaiian Civic Club. Good afternoon.

Aloha mai kākou for the record. Chair Richardson, Chair Lee, members of the committee for the record, my name is Leialoha Rocky Kaluhiwa. Today, I not only represent the kalaupoko Hawaiian Center, we cover the majority of our, local Kalaupoko, and we stand firmly and strongly support of this bill. And just about a week ago, they tried to put a ban on us spearing Kala and Uhu. And what is fair?

This is the babies that they're gonna be allowing to catch, to put in tanks, but yet they're not letting us get our own subsidiary to catch our own fish to for our own consumption. And by the way, what happened this past week is not only an act of nature. It's an act of puha. It's telling us, be careful. Look at our resources.

We got a malama what's left of it. Right now is the time to put a capo and everything. Hawaiians have capo system. Mahalo

Thank you.

Up next, switching to Zoom. Oh, there you are. Mister Akaka.

Hello. You guys can hear me?

Yep. Go ahead.

Godfrey Akaka Jr, Native Hawaiian Gathering Rights Association. We oppose this bill because we support all sustainable fishing. Aquarium is one of the most is the if not the most sustainable, highly regulated fishery. So if you allow this fishery to be banned, yeah, what would stop the environmentalist from banning every and all any other fishing? We heard that, no.

They're not going. They're going. They're going. Mahalo

Thank you. Also on Zoom, Hawaii oh, Mister Tubbs, Hawaii Reef Fisheries.

Not present.

Reef fisheries.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Oh, thank you.

Aloha, senators. Hello. My name is, Ron Tubbs, and I was an aquarium fisherman for 45 years before the shutdown. The things I've seen, I wish I could impart to them from my brain.

It's a vast ocean. It's beautiful. It's amazing. It's such a shame that misinformation has caused the banning of a fishery that has been sustainable. If you had cancer and you needed important decisions to be made about your health, would you go to a business owner, a group association, a lawyer, or in our degree

Let me just, you for just a sec. I think, the clock wasn't reset after the last testifier.

So it'll be another

I'll hold.

Thirty seconds, but please go ahead.

No. You go to an expert in their field with the most experience. A leading researcher with the most experience in the state, DAR scientists, DLNR they have all come out in support of this fishery. Low impact, sustainable. It was sustainable before the shutdown.

It'll be sustainable in the future. The future of Hawaii is to utilize our renewable resources to its maximum, not to ban fisheries in opposition to, you know, that has been opposed by people that are not sustainable and have the highest carbon footprint.

Business conflict is the corrupting influence here. Aquariums are perceived as a threat to their ocean based businesses of perception not supported by scientific data.

You could summarize, please.

So basically, this rules package would further swing strengthen quotas, limited entry, all the bells and whistles of any fishery, every single thing that's been possibly utilized to sustainably managed fishery has been employed with our environmental review that took five years, 1,600 pages of publication, and hundreds of thousands of dollars. They said that if we passed our EIS, we would get our permits. That's unfair if we don't.

Up next is back to Zoom. HULI PAC?

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Thank you. Also on Zoom, Kona-Kohala Chamber of Commerce.

Good afternoon.

Aloha, chair Lee, chair Richards, and committee members. I'm Wendy Laros, the President and CEO of the Konakohala Chamber of Commerce. Our chamber represents 460 member businesses and organizations on the West Side Of Hawaii Island, and we advocate for policies that support long term community stability and regional economic resilience.

West Hawaii's quality of life and economy are closely tied to the health of our ocean and our coral reef ecosystems. We strongly support HB 2101 relating to commercial aquarium collection.

Protecting these resources is essential to maintaining the balance between environmental stewardship and responsible economic activity that has guided our region for decades. And I do know this. I have been in this community for 35 years. I know what has happened with the aquarium fish collection, and I hope that we can come to this solution of banning it.

We respectfully urge the State of Hawaii Legislature to pass this important measure that will have a significant impact on our community and future generations.

Thank you for this opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Up next is the Center for Biological Diversity on Zoom.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Thank you. Also on Zoom For the Fishes.

Aloha. Rene Umberger, Director of For the Fishes in strong support. Thank you for hearing this bill. Please remember that the aquarium permit holders would not be the individual collectors testifying before you. It's PTAC, the National Pet Trade Association.

The fish collectors would just be mere designees who haven't legally collected fish in years. That context matters. The issue is not about providing livelihoods to local small business owners. It's a policy decision about whether Hawaii should allow the extraction of its reef wildlife for the global pet trade.

One that much prefers wild capture over available aquacultured alternatives because of the higher profit margins. The question before you is whether this activity should be allowed to resume, and whether doing so is consistent with Hawaii's values and our collective responsibility as stewards of our unique natural resources. Mahalo.

Thank you. Up next, Friends of Hanauma Bay.

Yes. Good afternoon. Thank you for hearing this bill. We really appreciate it. We stand on our testimony, but we'd also like to emphasize the fact that this bill has received more testimony than any other bill in this session and probably in any of the sessions over the last five years since this issue has been brought up for almost the last twenty years.

The residents of Hawaii are strongly in support of banning aquarium collection and in overwhelming majority. It's time to do this, senators, and we really appreciate you taking the time to listen to our voices and list read all of the testimony, which stands for more than hundreds of thousands of residents of Hawaii, not just the 650 or so testimonials that you're reading before this hearing today. It's time to do this, and we really urge you to do it.

Ask this bill and to amend it so that it covers Hawaii statewide. Mahalo for the opportunity to testify today.

Thank you very much. IT, can we keep the testifier that's actually up on screen, but not others?

Yes, chair.

Thank you.

Up next is Sierra Club of Hawaii. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, chairs, vice chairs, members of the committee. Wayne Tanaka of Sierra Club of Hawaii. We are in strong support of this measure. I just wanted to emphasize three things. First, this bill really just qualifies what's been the status quo for essentially the last decade.

You know, there hasn't been any active legal or crime collection in Hawaii since 2017. So it's not, you know, it's not a big change. It's just telling the DLNR that, you know, maybe they should not divert resources towards this, you know, very costly industry.

To that point also, you know, to in to implement the rules that are being considered, it's gonna require monitoring of colas, monitoring of catches, monitoring fishes, of the resources and enforcement.

And that's gonna take tremendous amounts of very limited staff time as well as resources in the department.

So, you know, making clear that department should focus on its public trust resources, which are very pressing, I think would be much, very beneficial for the long term interest of the state. And thank you very much for your time.

Thank you. Next is Pono Advocacy on Zoom.

Aloha, Chair Lee, Chair Richards, and committee members. Inga Gibson, Pono Advocacy and strong support. I just wanted to remind, the senators that 99%, if not 99.9% of the fish that are captured for this destructive commercial aquarium trade leave the State of Hawaii.

Polls have showed that less than 2% of Hawaii residents even have saltwater tanks after what the state has just gone through. Now of all times, why would we consider reopening an extractive trade that provides no cultural, economic, environmental benefit to our own people?

If you look at the testimony, the supporters of the trade are these very same 99% of people who are out of the state and also out of the country who want our fish.

It's time that we protect our own resources, especially in light of the recent catastrophic weather events that just support that climate change is is only going to impacts of climate change are just going to increase the impact of the

Thank you very much.

Strong support. Thank you, senators.

Also on Zoom, Kalanihale.

Aloha. My name is Kaʻimi Kaupiko. I am familiar of Hawaii. I submitted my testimony and I, in strong support of HB 2101. You know, just to add, we've been dealing with this issue for as long as my lifetime, and I'm, you know, really worried about what's gonna happen next week as we begin a process for public hearing.

And we're encouraging the state to do what the majority of us, Kanaka, as well as people that love this island regarding this issue. So I encourage you committee and the state to adhere to the majority of the voices. Mahalo.

Thank you. Also on Zoom, Sierra Club Hawaii Island Group.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Okay.

Next on Zoom, Hawaii Tropical Fish.

Also not present on Zoom, chair.

Chair, I'm here. Can you hear me?

Oh, sorry. Who's this?

The Hawaii Tropical Fish. It says my video won't start the host isn't letting me start the video.

Oh, yeah. What's what's your screen name there so they can identify you?

Todd Shiraki.

We have Johnny Isham signed up. Is that

Chair, can you see me?

Sorry. You're Todd Shiraki?

Yes. Hawaii Tropical Fish.

My name is Johnny. I'm Hawaii Tropical Fish Association.

Okay. Go ahead.

I strongly oppose this bill.

Wait. Sorry. Who's this?

My name is Johnny Isham.

Right. Sorry. Todd, what you did? Johnny's the one we're looking for that signed up here.

Okay. Sorry.

Go ahead.

Okay. So my name is Johnny, and I strongly oppose this bill. The people that support this bill is having everyone to believe that every other industry, fishery in the world is manageable and regulated except for collecting aquarium fish, which is done with a hand net, and there's no bycatch. So everyone is sustainable in all this except aquarium fish. I find that hard to believe.

And that guy who the guy who said it earlier, he hit it on a button. When they done with the Korean fish, I promise you, all these nonprofits will be moving on to the next people. Why? Because if they ain't got a cause, they don't get donations and they don't make their money because that's what it's about, collecting money. Everything else.

They wanna say the fish getting sent out to the other to the States. Yeah. It's getting sent, but they send in the cash to support local families here. A lot of local businesses' products get sent out to The States, but it supports local families. Please reject this bill.

Thank you.

Thank you. Alright. Moving back into the room, we have Kawika Ruddle.

Aloha, chair Lee, chair Richards, vice chairs, and members. My name is Kawika Ruddle, and I stand in strong support of HB 2101. And my written testimony I submitted. I was born and raised on Hawaii Island with deep ties to the waters of Fuqua and the Kohala Coast. These reefs are not just resources.

They're a part of our substance, our culture, and our responsibility to protect. Since aquarium fishery was shut down in 2017, our reefs had have a have had a chance to recover. This bill ensures we don't reverse that progress.

At the end of the day, taking fish from our reef for export is not a long term sustainable model for Hawaii. We've seen nearly a decade without aquarium fishing, and our reef's fish populations have had a chance to recover.

That alone shows the direction we should be going. Right now, we're at a decision point. We're like a car heading down towards a wall. We can slow down and change course, or we can keep going and deal with the damage after. This bill is about choosing to protect what we still have while there's still time.

Thank you.

Thank you. Up next is Alexander Min. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. My name is Alex Min. I'm from Honolulu, Hawaii, born and raised spearfisher, fisherman and professional that works here and and has lived here all my life. I respectfully stand in strong opposition of this bill. I wanna start by saying I believe in Malama Aina.

I believe in protecting our reefs. That's not where we disagree with this bill. Where we disagree is in the conclusion. This bill eliminates a fishery that has historically been one of the most studied and managed in the world. So the question becomes, if a fishery with this level of management is no longer acceptable, what's next for all our other fisheries?

And that's where my heart is at. So there's also a global reality we need to acknowledge here, bigger than just us. When we stopped producing aquarium fish, we those markets didn't disappear. They went elsewhere. So instead of reducing harm in one of the best managed fisheries in the world, we exported harm to others all around the world.

I don't think the answer to this is elimination. I think it's improving management and sustainability. We need adaptive frameworks. So I respectfully request that this bill be rejected.

Up next is Conall K. Ravenscraft. I'm guessing I pronounced that wrong.

That's my that's my government name though. Good afternoon, everybody. Conall Kahaka‛ioikamālie Ravenscraft, Napoopoo, Kealakekua, Big Island, in strong support of this bill. And our sentiment is actually not about banning an industry. It's about the practice of regeneration.

lawai’a, the Hawaiian Fishing Practice. Today, we always hear the sentiment, take only what you need. Take only what you need is a response to the post colonial extraction that our people experienced. The real tradition of lawai’a is take only what you can cultivate. Take only what you can replenish.

So if an industry wants to remove 200,000 laipala then prove to us that you're gonna replace 200,000 laipala every time. It's about reciprocation. What we take, we can replace. So we are cultivators, not extractors. Mahalo.

Thank you. Up next to the also in the room, Kawaiohawaiki AnakaleaKila. All right. If not, Chad Wiggins.

Aloha mai kākou. My name is Chad Wiggins. Originally from Rocky Ridge, Alabama. Was called to Hawaii to study coral reefs and coral reef fish in 2000. And in 2001, I began diving with the Division of Aquatic Resources as a scientific diver. During that time, I collected a great deal of data that is included in many reports and peer reviewed scientific studies.

My written testimony is focused on the peer reviewed scientific studies demonstrating that not only is the fishery not sustainable, it cannot be managed using the methods that are being proposed.

And at least one of the species that's being proposed for collection can only be collected by breaking and damaging corals physically. And so I'm available for questions about any of that science if anyone has any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Next, Mary Tubbs.

Aloha.

I have a master's degree in education, and I'm here in opposition to house bill 2101. Hawaii's Keiki and the public at large, most of whom do not die, deserve to see the animals that live in the ocean surrounding their home no matter in what county that is in.

A commercial aquarium fishery makes this possible without great expense. Aquariums are proven to reduce stress, and they make scientific concepts such as biodiversity and acidification understandable and relevant to students.

Aquariums teach the values of appreciating, respecting, and caring for nature. The aquarium fishers want nothing more than to do what is right now and for the future generations.

That is why the aquarium fishery, even though proven sustainable years ago with over 2,100 underwater studies, have agreed to or will agree to the new rules package, which significantly decreases the number of species they can catch and the amount they can catch. So thank you for this opportunity.

Up next, back to Zoom. Keynin. Good afternoon.

Chair, can you hear me?

Yes. Go ahead.

My name is Keynin Kretz. I'm in the. Got the opportunity to go to college at the University of Hawaii on Manoa. And I believe in sustainable fisheries. And I believe that the aquarium fishery is definitely, definitely sustainable and was the new rule package that has been proposed.

So I hope that this bill gets stopped. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Also on Zoom, Eric Koch.

Aloha, chairs and committee members. You have heard claims that this fishery is unsustainable and violates the principles of malamaaina. I respectfully ask, does any fishery in Hawaii fully meet the bill suggested standard? At some point, modern science and data driven management must converge with traditional Hawaiian knowledge and practices of balanced resource use. The fishery is sustainable for clear observable reasons.

The targeted fish, the yellow tang, is abundant, has strong reproductive capacity, and we harvest small amounts of juveniles that nature itself eliminates in very large numbers. The adult fish you see swimming around in the waves and Kona are left untouched. Harvesting small amounts of juveniles has no measurable impact on the overall reef. Once you understand the life history of these fish and what the fishers target, you realize how trivial this proposed ban really is.

Of all the fisheries in Hawaii, this one has proven its low impact while providing meaningful jobs in line with cultural values.

It malamas the people as we depend on it for our livelihoods. It sustains us. We have followed every required step. We completed the court ordered process, fulfilled the HIPAA review, and are currently in Chapter 91 who's making with the public hearing next

Thank you very much.

Recently before the setting proposals package, in response to activists

Mr Koch, thank you, your time is up.

About culturally important fish

Back in the room.

In strong support of this measure. I've submitted my written testimony. Here in the room, we have Kupuna, Hawaiian civic clubs, office of Hawaiian affairs, fishing villages, traditional practitioners, Ahamoku, co manager organizations that work with the state to actually manage these fisheries. We have Dar and we have you, two most important committees in all of this Senate that speaks on this topic and is here before you. Each and everyone in this room has a duty, whether you consciously chose to or not.

You took a job at the state. You took an oath. You volunteer your time and born into the practice of LaVeya in traditional ways. Hawaii is our home in the middle of the Pacific, and no one is gonna save us from the decisions we make. And the decisions we make today are not just for us.

It's for the generations that are not in this room, those yet to be born. To me, this is a no brainer because of my culture of how I was raised. None of us can hold ourselves to the duty of Hawaii public trust and at the same time allow for extraction and exploitation. Your decision you make today is your commitment to us in the room, to those that are yet to be born.

Thank you.

The third generation of advocates are here. Third generations that keep on coming back here. Thank you.

Up next is Keanu Binney-Medeiros.

Aloha, chairs, vice chairs, and members of the committee. Again, my name is Keanu Binney-Medeiros. I'm a proud Hoa'aina of Waalakekua Nui, and I am also a linear descendant of Kealakekua Bay. I'm here because The aquarium patch rate target is fish that are vital to the recovery and the resilience of our reef's health. Like many of us in the room have said already, this storm serves as an example of that.

On my way over here, on the flight, you could see the brown water coming across all the islands, and who is the ones 24-7 taking care of that? Not me, not you. These are vital to healthy resilience and recovery systems in our reef health, and it's important for our future generations if we want to have a thriving Hawaii later on down the road. Mahalo.

Thank you. Alohi Nakachi.

Aloha, Kako. My name is Alohi Nakachi. I have a PhD from UH in natural resources and environmental management, and I support the ban of the aquarium trade. Increased storm intensity and frequency, flood, runoff, pollution, sedimentation, sea level rise, acidification, increased fire risk, increasing global temperatures. Our environmental stressors are increasing and compounding.

Ina is yelling at us. We cannot keep allowing unnecessary practices, passing off Kuleana, and debating issues when the consequences are right in our faces. We have been seeing this issue for my entire lifetime. This is a trade that only allows a small number of fishers to remove large amounts of fish for a luxury hobbyist industry that exists almost entirely outside of the. Enough already.

Ban the aquarium trade. We cannot keep handing down a legacy of harder and harder fights with less and less resources. Remove one stressor already and let us, you all, and our natural resource managers have the time, resources, and energy to use to combat the ever increasing other stressors. Mahalo nui.

Thank you. Back to Zoom. Nick signed up. Oh, sorry. In the room.

Oh, you're on Zoom over here. Yeah. It's time we get the whole thing, not just the head.

Good afternoon. I kinda guess I'll cut through everything and just go, where's the compromise? I'm in strong opposition of this bill. All these blanket bans, this isn't conservation. This isn't regulation.

This is just outright banning. So, you know, I've seen both sides make their arguments. I think they're both valid, but there seems to be one side does not want to compromise at all. So we're gonna lose a lot of, like, generational, you know, ocean knowledge. You lose all these banned practices, banned fisheries, and outlets to future youth that diverses the economy.

And, you know, it's a huge bummer. So I just hope that you side with the process that has been stated in from this capital, the EIS government agencies, and try to propose compromise. Thank you.

Thank you. Back to Zoom. Hello? Cox. Hello?

Sorry. Who is this? Oh, yep. Go ahead.

Aloha Board Members.

Can you hear me alright?

Yep. Go ahead.

Cool. Aloha. My name is Jai Cox. I'm a spear fisherman from Kau, and I'm strongly against this bill. The West Hawaii fishery has already been proven sustainable, and what I see underwater matches that.

The reef is not being damaged by this fishery. This bill seems rushed to me, especially with the fishery most likely reopening soon. My experience in the water doesn't line up with what's being said. If there's doubt about the science, I invite you to go out and see it firsthand. This fishery provides solid jobs for local families and has very small impact on the ocean.

Shutting it down would hurt the local people who depend on it. So please vote on this bill and mahalo for your time.

Thank you. Also online, Randy Fernley.

Aloha, committee members. My name is Randy Fernley, and I urge you all to vote against the passage of bill HB 2101.

Sorry, Randy. Can you turn your video on, please?

Oh, I'm sorry. That's not my video. Okay.

There you go.

I, of course, stand by my written testimony. I understand that science plays a very important role in determining sustainability. This is not to downplay the very important aspects of culture, economics, and ethics. However, science is critical in in the issue before us now. Decision makers should be armed with the best available science, and that includes both DLNR biologists and outside consultants from recognized experts on reef fishes.

I trust this has been done. In closing, I must mention that some opponents claim that the collection bleeds the state of funds while undertaking by while taking its resources. This is not true. All the fish sold are paid for by the customers and all comes back to the state. 98% of the funds are used for rent, mortgages, taxes, and other living expenses.

The state benefits from this fishery. Thank you very much. Aloha.

Thank you. We're gonna be on Zoom for a while here. Up next is Brody Hammer.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Vivian Tollner?

Also not present on Zoom.

Caelly Shiraki?

I'm here. Can you hear me?

Yes. Go ahead.

Okay. My name is Caelly Shiraki, and I'm from West Hawaii. I am testifying to the Hawaii HB 2101. As currently written, this bill could create unintended consequences for local residents and businesses without clearly addressing the issues it intends to solve.

Policies would be practical, balanced, and informed by those who live and work in our communities. This measure in its present form risk placing unnecessary burdens on responsible individuals while doing little to achieve meaningful results. I urge the committee to carefully reconsider to consider the impact of vote no on HB 2101. Thank you.

Thank you. Up next is Rufus Kimura.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Daryl Smith.

Members of the committee. Aloha, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. My name is Daryl Smith. I'm a 22 year Maui resident. I'm here in strong opposition to HB 2101 as a community member who supports aquariums fishermen and the integrity of our state's decision making process.

It's been going on for a very long time. HB 2101 does not advance conservation. It overrides a science based, legally mandated process that has already been exhaustively carried out. It sends a message that even when people follow the law, invest in science, and make meaningful compromises, the outcome can still be disregarded. If you're going to require an environmental impact statement process, then its findings must be respected.

Otherwise, we are not practicing environmental stewardship. We are practicing prohibition without due process. I stand in strong opposition to this bill. I'm not a fisherman, but I support a fair based, evidence based policy. And the local families who have spent years complying with every requirement placed before them, it's difficult to see that process now set aside.

I respectfully urge you to vote no on HB 2101. Mahalo.

Thanks. Up next is Bruce Carlson.

Can you hear me?

Yes. Go ahead.

Okay. The challenge the challenge you face is distinguishing alarming anecdotal comments and hypothetical disaster predictions from actual data. Fortunately, DLNR has collected data over the past twenty years on the aquarium fish populations in West Hawaii, and they have testified in the past that West Hawaii aquarium fishery is sustainable. It is sustainable because of the actions taken by DLNR to establish protected reef areas, and that's coupled with the remarkable reproductive capacity of species like the yellow tang.

One adult female yellow tang produces, on average, 1,000,000 eggs per year.

DLNR estimates the brood stock of yellow tangs in West Hawaii is 6,000,000 fish, half are females. Those 3,000,000 female yellow tangs produce 3,000,000,000,000 eggs annually. Natural mortality among larvae and juveniles is exceedingly high. Most young fish become food, and they never join the breeding population. The aquarium fishery targets these young fish, which are highly desired for aquariums because they're small, but also they're the most likely to die.

Thank you, mister Carlson.

Thank you very much. That was I just had to make the, my point. Mahalo.

Next is Randy Cates.

Hi. Can you hear me?

Yep. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Hi, Chris. Thank you for allowing me to testify. I'm in opposition of this bill, HB 2101. While many of you have heard through various meetings and hearings on this that this will not affect aquaculture. I'm here to tell you not only has it already affected aquaculture, but it will in the future. It also affects public aquariums because they come to us for collection.

They don't have their own boats. Waikiki Aquarium doesn't, but they're too fearful of testifying on this. But it will harm the the public aquariums as well. I know for a fact that this bill and this shutdown of aquarium trade has stalled permits.

And I would encourage you to ask Dal Dar to come up and speak about how the permit process was stalled for aquaculture and how these various groups went to the airlines and trying to get them to ban transporting fish on airlines, which inadvertently shut down for a period of time the aquaculture industry in Hawaii in the past.

Thank you, mister Cates.

Next is Travis Liggett. Good afternoon.

Thank you.

Aloha, chair and committee. My name is Travis Liggett, and I am actually a former indirect employee of the Maui Ocean Center. I drafted the NPDES permit in 2018. I also uncovered that, in fact, they were in violation of their injection well permit. In fact, they have been since 2018.

In fact, they actually partition their two permit teams and gave one team one set of data, another team another set of data. And do you know they killed 68% of the animals that were introduced to that aquarium? And in fact, DLNR doesn't have even a slight clue of what bacteria are killing those fish. And in fact, the disinfection method for the treatment plant that's illegally receiving that that discharge uses chlorine disinfection. Chlorine disinfection does not cover most species of non tuberculosis mycobacteria.

And in fact, the receiving water body in Ma'alaya has declined from 75% according to DLNR.

Sorry. I'm just gonna ask are you in support?

Absolutely support.

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. The industry needs to be buried, and a stake needs to be put through the heart of it, and a church needs to be built on it, and holy water needs to be put on it.

Up next is, Eric Monich.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Okay. Kekua Olip

Hello, my. My name is Kekua Olip from Kona. Before you all is an ex aquarium fishermen. I'm in very strong support of this bill and stand upon the many testimonies I've given thus far. It breaks my heart having to provide testimony over and over again, each time feeling shame, guilt, and regret.

However, I continue to do so as you know it's necessary in order to protect Hawaii's marine life. Our Aina people and future generations deserve this. Having personally experienced and witnessed the destruction of our recent coastal ecosystems due to this trade, I strongly urge you all to please do the right thing and put an end to this trade once and for all three points for consideration. Our resources are taken away and sent far off lands.

While here in Hawaii, we are left with less fish and damage to our reef. Hawaii and our people do not benefit from restraint.

This practice is not in alignment with our core values of. Thank you for your time for allowing me the opportunity to provide this testimony. Aloha.

Thank you. Up next is Jim Lovell.

Aloha, chair. Thanks for taking the time here. Jim Lovell in opposition. I've been listening to these lies now for almost 46 years as a fisherman here in Kona. This is my livelihood that you're trying to take away today.

This is not a resource issue. This is a use conflict. You've got the right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. This bill is what you get when you're putting a lie. The very first statement is a lie.

Read it. You can't substantiate it with any facts. Every one of our opponents have already been protected by having almost 50% of West Hawaii permanently closed for their explosive use. Even the supreme court has agreed that this industry has not completed the resource and has ordered the injunction lifted.

So now we're not only discriminating against one user group, but this further discriminate against the seven fifty minute of the period of people process by targeting the Big Island only, the only island with the population between 200,000 and 300,000 people.

Your own scientists and the Supreme Court are telling you that the statements in this bill is simply not true. Please take that into account and vote no on this bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Klayton Kubo.

Klayton Kubo, Waimea, Kauai. I guess I get only one minute, but I hope I won't use them all. Where is the data? The data is present.

I don't know why you guys are not listening to the data. Next is gonna be, maybe they're gonna say, hey. We're gonna ban picking up peehee. We're gonna ban night diving. We're gonna ban all, ban, ban, ban, keep on banning.

Then where am I gonna go gather? That's the question to you guys I get for you guys. And, hey, how about this? How about banning a form of farming? Maybe raising cattle.

Maybe maybe that's what's gonna be next. Think about it. The data is out there. Listen to the data. Mahalo nui. Aloha.

Thank you. Up next is Kai. I see, is Kai online?

They are online, but currently unavailable, chair.

Okay.

Hello?

Is that Kai? Alright. We'll circle back to that testifier. Todd Shiraki.

Hello, chair Richards and, committee members. Can you hear me?

Yes.

I'm a lifelong resident, born and raised here in Kalekekua, the West Side, and I know what it takes to live and work on in these islands. HP 2101 might seem like a small change for some, but for people like me and for countless families who live lived and worked here for generations, It's a big deal. This bill threatens the way we make our living and how we care for our community.

I urge you to think about the real people behind the numbers and policies. Think about the families, workers, local businesses who depend on these freedoms and practices that this bill would restrict.

HB 2101 isn't just the policy. It's people's lives, and it would make it hard for people like me to stay here. Please vote no on HB 2101 and defer it like you did its companion bill, SB 2996. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Nick Foti. Is Nick online?

He is online, sure, but currently unavailable. Hello?

Chair, he's available.

Hello?

Oh, yeah. Well, you got you got me mixed up with the other Nick Foti.

We'll take, the one who hasn't yet testified.

Yeah. Thank you. If you

could turn your video on.

Hello. I'm I'm not sure how to use the Zoom, so my phone is not letting me, or I can't figure it out. Thank you. Welcome back to you. Hold on.

It's something we applied to everybody because folks who take time to show up are here in person, folks online. It's one of the things why don't you take a minute to figure that out? We will circle back to you.

Okay.

Up next is Richard Xie, if I'm pronouncing that correctly.

Hello. Yeah. Yeah. This is Richard. So I I would like to urge that do not pass HB 2101.

So it's not a not even any industry, like, this industry face a sudden death in the 2017 and 2021. So we just the court just gave us, like, two weeks notice, and then everybody. So all the people in the industry have mortgage, bills to pay, you know, like, unemployment. So we go through the expulsion in 2021. So we have the COVID, and then it's just shut us down less than two weeks notice.

And we follow the rules, do the EIS reports, and spend millions of dollars, and then work with DNR, DAR, go through all the meetings. And now we gotta we tell that, oh, okay. This bill can shut the whole industry. Then nobody will follow the EIS. Nobody would do any any industry who would do this again.

So because this is all our own money to spend.

Thank you, mister Xie. Artur Parola.

Good afternoon. I wanna address comments that have been made by animal rights activists about mortality rates of aquarium fish and highlight some points from my written comments. The comments made by animal rights activists regarding high mortality rates are simply false. High survival rates are documented in the scientific literature. In my written testimony, I provided a study on collection and husbandry practices for yellow tang.

The author of the study reported zero mortality after six months and again after two and a half years for yellow tangs collected with practices standard to those used here in Hawaii. Aquarium fish are ambassadors for the ocean. Most people can't snorkel or scuba dive. Everyone can enjoy the fish in home and public aquariums. Eliminating those opportunities by closing the fishery will reduce opportunities for people to connect with nature.

Please oppose this bill and allow the sustainable aquarium fishery to continue under DARS management. Thank you.

Thank you. Paul Kimsel?

Hello? Is my microphone working?

Yeah. Go ahead.

Nobody here on this committee, nobody at the entire square building is on I don't know anything about this industry. Let me start off with I strongly oppose this bill and the other bill and the countless bills that they keep introducing to that industry that has been not practiced for over five years. K? Don't know about the industry. You don't know about fish.

You pay us the AR and DLNR. Guys who do know about the so let them do their job, let them evaluate, regulate, and govern the fishery, what comes of it. And the reason why they keep introducing bills is they know there's nothing wrong with the fishery. The opposite groups are very well funded and they have big lobbyists and they over there talking to you guys, giving you guys phone calls, begging you guys to introduce and pass these bills. We know the game.

This is silly. I knew nothing about it and now I have zero faith in Hawaii politics It's so corrupt. Please wash this bill and any other one that comes to your desk and let the process play out. I stand by my written testimony.

Thank you. Up next is David Ramos.

Hello? Can you hear me?

Yep. Please proceed.

Okay. Aloha, chair and Board Members. My name is Dave Ramos, born and raised on Oahu. I oppose bill 2101. I've collected aquarium fish for over thirty years.

Banatrade, at least research it by using aquatic resources for the stats and the fishermen's knowledge for reef health, then see if it makes sense to you to stop it. I can say for sure none of the people from Earth Justice, any clubs or organizations have even bothered to at least talk to the people who actually do it. I've offered to take people out of my boat to confirm how well we take care of their fish and read.

And I was told by the people from for the fishes group that they don't care if it's sustainable or not. They don't want anyone doing it.

Are these the kind of people you wanna side with? With no compassion whatsoever, in the middle of COVID, Daniel R stated on television, due to the hardship that COVID was putting on everybody, they were going to allow the fishermen to use up their license for that year and then close-up the fishing until the DIS was done. Shortly after, we got a notice in the mail that said we couldn't fish anymore. Kinda funny that wasn't shown on TV.

Thank you, Mr. Ramos. Okay. Thank you very much. Next is Scott Folsom.

Hello. Good day. As a former marine biologist with Institute of Marine Biology, I'm strongly opposed to this bill. Marine fish are some of the most productive vertebrates on the planet, making fish some of the most renewable resource there is. The state has pretty much overlooked the potential of the multibillion dollar a year pet industry cut off from the state.

Hawaii's top marine biologist, many of whom I've personally known and worked with, signed a letter supporting the Hawaii industry. Why? Because of fishery sustainable. We know that because DLNR, DAR have done the studies and we have the data. Hawaii's aquarium fish is an important part of the multibillion dollar industry.

And the legislature should listen to the scientific information weighing in on this issue. Please support this fishery. Thank you.

Thank you. Up next is Kapiolani Spencer.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

Atlanta Bryant.

Also not present on Zoom chair.

I have a question.

Oh, sorry. Please come forward.

Thank you.

Aloha, Elena Bryant. Born and raised Ko'olaupoko. I come from a long line of Kanaka Maoli subsistence and commercial food fishers, true. And, I also serve on DLNR's Kaneohebe Regional Council since 2021. I'm testifying in strong support of this bill, but urge your committees to make the ban statewide.

I stand on my test testimony, but wanna stress that DARR doesn't dispute the scientific data that indicates that Oahu's herbivore populations are in peril. Without a statewide ban, this trade would allow a handful of collectors to remove hundreds of thousands of herbivores from Oahu's coral reef ecosystems. And DARS failed to indicate how it plans to measure the impacts of commercial crime collection on Oahu.

As noted in my written testimony, numerous organizations representing thousands of residents in our community have passed resolutions calling for a legislative ban on commercial aquarium collection because it's a community we decided that the ornamental pet trade is not compatible with our community values and priorities. Please pass this bill with amendments to ban commercial aquarium collection statewide.

Thank you.

Thank you. Next is Kaikeya Nakachi.

Aloha. I'm Kaikeya Nakachi, and, mahalo you all for scheduling this bill today. I stand on my written testimony in strong support of HB 2101. I represent my ohana, so I must share that me and my family's voices were ignored in the aquarium industry's cultural impact statement for their West Hawaii EIS. My concerns over their definition of sustainable, as well as my concern over their proposed catch limits being determined from past catch numbers were not heeded when I brought them up to the BLNR.

I am proud that our Hawaii County Council voted unanimously for a resolution supporting a ban on commercial AQ collection. I urge this committee to, follow the County Council of Hawaii and every committee before us. Please pass HB 2101. Please do not weaken it. Please do not remove Hawaii Island from the ban.

If any changes are made, please let them be increasing the ban to be across the or the whole state.

Mahalo for

your time.

Thank you.

Let's go back to is Kai online?

Can you hear me? Sorry about that. I'm having some issues.

Yep. Go ahead. Alright.

Hello, sheriff committee members. My name is Kai Cope. I live in the big up Hawaii. I've been around this experience in Aquarius my entire life. I've seen it provide many jobs and helps support many local families throughout the years, and I hope it can continue to do so in the future.

The science clearly shows that victory is and has been sustainable and well regulated, yet the opposition keeps changing their complaints. First, they they're claiming overfishing and population collapse. But after years of process demanded by some, they have now made a pro issue. I am in complete opposite opposition of this bill of banning the aquarium fishery. Please make the right choice and reject this bill.

Thank you.

Thank you. And back to Nick Foti. Nick there?

He is online chair, but currently unavailable.

Hello? Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to I'm trying to get I'm trying to get this to work. Can I give my testimony?

If you can turn your video on. Otherwise, we have your written testimony, but we have to be fair and treat everybody the same.

Okay. Well, I need more time to figure it out.

Okay. Well, we're at the end of our testifier list here. So why don't we sit tight on Zoom for a minute, and come back to the room for those who had not yet testified. So please come forward on the side.

Hello?

Maybe you can sit tight. We'll we'll circle back one more time and

Okay. Okay.

Actually, since you're on hold

now to Go ahead. H2B2101.

Okay. Thank you, Nick.

Aloha, my Kakou. My name is Maia Lanai Seifer. I'm with the Ko'olau Foundation. And, we speak in strong support of this bill, but urge your committee to include the following, small change. In Section two, end the sentence after the phrase aquarium purposes.

This would add this would enable the addition of Kaneohe Bay to the, ban because we have lost so much of our native fish, and yellow tang used to be very plentiful, and now it's very hard to find. We also want your consider consideration of the kapu system as a compromise, which meant, collecting the fish would not be allowed when the fish was diminished numbers. And when they were plentiful, that kapu could be listed lifted. That's the traditional Hawaiian way.

We don't wanna repeat the, mistakes of the past.

In the early 1800s, Kamehameha allowed the sale of the valued llama, the sandalwood, exported to Asia and worldwide. Now this tree is as rare is rare and endangered. Let's not make the same mistake with the yellow tag. Thank you. That one small change is what we ask.

Thank you.

Let's go forward.

Hello, Bart. My name is Jerry Aisham, a fisherman in Waianae. Been doing this for a little over thirty years, aquarium fish and food fishing. You know, we're here today because there's a the the last the big last push before the Big Island fishery opens. That's what this is about.

I'm here today to tell you that on Oahu Side EIS, our EIS is currently sitting on DNR's desk right now at this moment. It's been there for a week. They're looking at it. We're working with them. The only thing I ask you is to keep to the last ban bill.

Give us that year because I assure you, if we don't make progress like you discussed in the last ban bill, I won't even be here myself. But I assure you this industry is sustainable. I believe in it all my heart. We would not have invested so heavy in it, and it is the fisherman's money. I don't care what opposition says because Pijack ain't paying my bills, and

they didn't take out the loan

on my house. I did that. If if you pass this bill, people's lives are gonna be hurt. If you kill this bill, people's feelings gonna be hurt. I just want you to think about that a lot.

So there is time. This industry is not detrimental where you can't give it one more year. Aloha. Thank you.

Gentleman in the hat,

up next.

Aloha, Board Members. My name is Riley. I'm 17 years old, and I live in Kahup. I've been an avid spearfisherman for the last four years, but I was always in the water. And I've been a fisherman since birth.

Being by the ocean a lot, I run into a lot of fishermen. I talk story with them, and everyone I talk to sees the lauipala as a rubbish fish, same as a hoggy. I'm just so confused what the deal is with this fish. Is it that the tour companies need it so they can bring tourists in to stomp the reefs? Or is it because people think it's wrong to give a fish a life better than the wild in an aquarium?

It's funny to me that I can go and kill all these fish, but not keep them alive. To me, it's all rubbish claims to attack fishing. What's next? Are you guys gonna say that I cannot use a live opellu for bait? Furthermore, this fishery is the most managed fishery in the world.

All the science is there, the fish are there, and this fishery takes the least amount of fish for the most amount of money. All this money can give jobs to local families. It's not greed, it's called being smart. Thank you.

Next. Actually, real quick. Why don't you come come come come take a seat. But Nick, did you get your stuff figured out?

Hello?

Yep. Go ahead.

Yeah. Thank you for the time to give my testimony, chairs, vice chair, and members of the board. I'm opposed to HB 2101. I feel like someone who grew up in the Big Island, banning the aquarium fishery was never appropriate. It was never needed.

The fishery was sustainable years in the past. Why would you even consider it now? I've spoken to Hawaiian aquarium fishermen and asked them if the aquarium fishing practice, is, against their cultural ways. And they've told me no. The fishery is sustainable, was sustainable.

A lot of comments are derogatory, trying to say that it's not. I find it offensive as someone who's lived here my whole life for someone to come and lie. I don't think it's appropriate for any of the Board Members to consider their legal advice, their cultural advice when a lot of it is derogatory.

Thank you. I'm

opposed to the bill. Thank you.

Aloha, my name is Kovika Winter. I'm the director of the Heiaia National Estuarine Research Reserve. I'm also a tenured researcher at the Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology. Although I am presenting here today in a personal capacity, I am strong support of this bill. And I would actually like to see a revival of the language that makes events statewide.

Thank you.

Thank you. I'll note, we just saw Chuck Flaherty online who was here, for the Hawaii group of the Sierra Club. That wasn't available earlier. Is that right?

Yes, chair. He is online.

Yep. Go ahead, Chuck.

Aloha, mister chair and members of the committees. I am representing the Hawaii Island Group of the Sierra Club. I'm trying to pull okay. Here it is. It's with immense hope that the Hawaii Island Sierra Club of Hawaii strongly supports this bill.

After this past two weeks of historic rains floods and massive run offs of soil onto the state's coral reefs, there is no longer any valid argument against the fact that climate change is not only real, but it's a great threat to us all. It is an existential threat, and it should be pointed out that the Department of Aquatic Resources before this event occurred stated that it was likely that the coral reefs would be destroyed in Hawaii within the next thirty years.

there's just no way to harvest from a resource that's in that under that threat and say that it's sustainable. The the White County Council did, as you know, vote unanimously in favor of

And

Thank you, mister Flaherty.

Asking you, our state legislatures to, legislate

mister Flaherty.

Oh, that's it. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate the time.

Alright. Who's next? And please go forward.

I called in. You said your staff said two minutes, so I'm gonna ask for a little grace.

We're limiting folks to one minute so that we can hear from everybody.

Chairs and committee members, I think we pick up where we left off a couple weeks ago with Senator Richards said to give it a year and hurry up paraphrasing here. The fishery would like that, but these NGOs are laying every speed bump in the pothole they can to slow this down clearly by having five bills this legislative session.

I wouldn't be here if it were not for a planned doctor's appointment because no regular person can continue to afford to take this many times and fly over without getting funded. I could talk about the science, the management, and the EIS process, but that's all been discussed. The facts are that we as Hawaii are having real problems, and focusing on something that hasn't even happened is why Hawaii is in the mess.

It is. People are struggling and real issues are not being addressed. We need to do better. OHA is supposed to be for the people, but here they are proposing to ban something that has been in existence since before they were mandated. Let that sink in.

A fishery that has been commercial before statehood. So to say it's not Pono or culturally important flies in the face of reality. The Waikiki Aquarium opened in 1904 the second oldest in the world. Who do you think caught fish for them?

Thank you

The Hawaiians. Many generations have been fishermen. I oppose this bill.

very much.

Anyone else in the room?

My name is Hola Kainaba, I serve as chair of the Hawaii County Council. Here to voice my strong support of this measure. The Hawaii County Council did pass unanimously resolution 422. That's to six to urge the Legislature to pass a statewide ban. We've heard from a variety of community members across our state, and I do want to mahalo those in support of this bill who came before our council and will continue to show up.

This is actually my first time testifying live before any committee here at the Legislature, but I did promise them that I would be here. And I strongly support this bill and request your support

of this bill as well.

Thank you.

Aloha, Charlie and Jane Richards.

My name is Leymana Damate. I'm the Alakayak for the Hawaii State Ahomoku and the Ahomoku Advisory Committee, which is comprised of Po'o for the eight, main Hawaiian Islands. I'm sorry our testimony was late in coming to you. Our Po'o needed the extra time to go and consult with all of their mokuy, 46 mokuy in the state of Hawaii. And, we stand in unison in support strong support of this bill, and we stand on our written testimony.

Thank you.

Thank you. Next.

Chairs, vice chairs, members of the committee, Lena Alelei on behalf of office of Hawaiian affairs and strong support. I do wanna note since this is our package measure that we submitted our testimony on time at 12:55, but it's not showing on the website. So I did want to note that, because this is important to the board of trustees.

They adopted this bill as part of aloha package measure after considering many of the same issues that are facing you today and taking very seriously the effects that this will have on individuals, and we have a lot of respect and sympathy for individuals who would be affected by a ban. Nonetheless, this is a very small industry.

It is going that has a large impact. The number of individuals who will be able to to participate in the industry as approved by deal and artists support its sustainability conclusion would essentially be seven boat owners that participated in the E I S. So there are enormous state resources that are being invested for the benefit of a small number of boat owners who do have the ability to transition into and participate in other fisheries.

So we do feel that the legislature, much like OHA, should look at what the majority of public opinion is on this bill. And, of course, OHA's position was based on the majority of opinion of our beneficiaries who are most impacted in communities where commercial extraction has been targeted observed for themselves the impacts of Mahalo for hearing this bill.

K. Anybody else in the room? So you had testified at the beginning.

Ten seconds. I stand on

my mic. Just a moment.

Go ahead. Thanks again, Chair Lee.

Again, my name is Mike Nakachi. I come to you all again humbly and with a lot of experience having dived along the entire West Side Of Hawaii Island for the last forty years. One thing that we're not talking about is a negative and cumulative impacts that have happened since 1953. I could name on the 155 miles of Leeward coastline. Approximately 60% of that that is open, that a lot of these particular areas have never come back and have never rebounded.

Okay? So even though we're talking about a particular part of science, I still come back before these committees on talking on very traditional and customary practices of aloha aina to malama this aina and then stand on aina momona. We're dealing with, again, an extractive business, and I ask that you guys do a Kakou thing for all of us within our West Hawaii community and throughout the Pailaina to ban this particular trade. Thanks again for the time.

Thank you. Anybody else in the room?

With a quick showing of hands in the room, is there anyone else? One over here. Okay. I'll make you the last one.

Aloha. Aloha.

I'm Willie Kaupico. I come from the last fishing village in the world. You guys gotta understand that. That's how my place is very important. Senator Inouye Nakaka had give me the and give us the feedback to protect the livelihood of our village.

I wanna really appreciate what he's thinking of the village because I have all resources. I just hope we've been doing this a lot long time in below here, managing the resources and stuff like that. And I just hope, you know, we're doing it. The aquatics, our team in the aquatics will be more sensible. Manage the results.

Think about it. Right now, I'm great. Really thankful for Greg, the biologist living in Miloli, and we're going to fish count a certain area to see how it and it's very terrible. The attitude is not coming back. The reef is monkey like the climate.

When I was a small kid, the fish was always

Thank you very much.

So you

know what I'm trying

to say?

Do a good job. Don't let this deal go.

Hi. Chairs, committee members, thank you. My name is Mahesh. I'm with Earthjustice. I just wanted to address some of the red herrings that have been thrown in front of you today.

We support this bill. There's been no legal collection in West Hawaii in nine years. There's been no legal collection on Oahu in six years. So any argument that, passing a ban is gonna hurt live neighborhoods is misleading at best. Also, the 1953 territorial statute that created this permit was based on a fundamental lie that none of these fish are edible.

And as you've seen from many of the folks coming up here today, the ocean is our icebox. Also, I just wanna address, I

I work for one of

the nonprofits that is targeted by a lot of these comments. I'm also Hawaiian. I'm also come from fisher families. And, I gotta say, the ocean is, is our community's icebox. And yet these guys wanna treat it like their private piggy bank.

So please, please pass this bill, and let's end commercial aquarium collection in Hawaii once and for all of you. Okay.

Thank you very much. Okay. With that, are there any questions?

I have a question.

Question.

Dar Ryan, are you here? It was a reference in the test. If one of the testifiers with regards to the effect on aquaculture, and I've heard this before, coming into this hearing, probably about a month ago. I'm a big supporter of aquaculture as well and very concerning, to hear if there is any impact. Also, aquaculture, I think you guys manage permitting as well.

Yeah. Okay.

Yes. Aloha, Senator Brian Nielsen, division of aquatic resources. So, we have seen some impacts on aquaculture, but it's been more related to the interpretation of court rulings. We do currently permit the collection of broodstock for aquaculture, and I see the bill does allow for it. But I think it's been more of a confusion in how to interpret the court's ruling rather than our ability to permit.

We've also seen the board deny broodstock collection permits because of that same issue of not understanding if HIPAA is being applied correctly as well. So those have been the disruptions that I've seen.

Thank you. Other questions?

Sure. Question. Dar. Thank you. Aren't we currently in the EIS process right now conducting a study and go ahead.

Yes. Yes. So West Hawaii is already completed on EIS for collection in West Hawaii, but Oahu is currently in the EIS process. They've they've submitted their notice. So we just reviewed that and provided comments back to them on that.

So then they'd have the ability to put out the public notice for the EIS, so early stages.

So where are we at in, I guess, completing the entire plan, I guess?

For the EIS, so they would need to put it out for public comment. They would need to address any of those comments and potentially revise the EIS. Then the next step would be to take it to the land board. And the land board's the reviewing department. And so then they would make a determination on whether to accept or reject the EIS.

And then if they do accept, then that EIS process would be completed.

Thank you. Just one more follow-up, Chair. Please.

Also ask just to add to that. So what's the timeline?

Timeline? Gosh. Thinking about all the comment periods, I'd say, by the time it comes to the board, I'm guessing it's at least three months out in satisfying all the all the HIPAA requirements.

Thank you. Do you think it's fair to just kind of see the entire process through, being it sounds like maybe some fishermen have spent some of their own money to invest in this study and this process? Do you think it's fair to see the entire process through, given that there's accurate data, I'm sure, in these plans, but also more more importantly, the community input?

So seeing the process through in terms of going through the EIS process

Going to the

land board.

Yeah. I mean, we we are moving forward with rulemaking. We're holding public hearings at the end of this month. We'll take that back to the land board. We'll collect all of the public testimony in the the hearing.

So that's the the direction we're headed.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

Real quick for I'm sorry. You stick around, Brian. I'm sure there's gonna be a question or two, but for Earthjustice. Also, my understanding was when we talked to the attorneys that the EIS had been previously submitted was rejected, and then notwithstanding all the court stuff, everything else still had to go through the process. Is that what you're referring to?

So the the Oahu EIS was previously rejected by the board, I I can't remember, three years ago. So they've been revising, the EIS, and are now getting ready to, resubmit it and go through the the public notice process. Yeah.

So the Oahu EIS needs to be revised and go through the whole process, and then there will be a permitting process. But right now, we've had a break from collection for many years now. And so this is a decision today of whether you want to be open it or not.

So you haven't even had a chance to review the Oahu EIS?

We reviewed the first one, and submitted extensive comments. And then we'll be watching out for the Oahu the revised one

as well. But we this is

the first time we're learning that there's documents sitting at Dar's desk. No one's really no one's informed. So that

Can I ask Dan, Ryan, also this picture?

Yeah. So where are we with the whole Holomua process going forward?

So we're having talk story sessions on Hawaii Island in May throughout throughout the island. We're gonna hold seven meetings. And so those will just be the initial information sharing about the whole process, asking for nominees for a planning team, which we call a navigation team. And then that team will start looking at nearshore resources and identifying actions to prioritize to, That could be restoration. It could be fishing regulations, outreach.

So the whole gamut in terms of sustainably managing our nearshore resources. So that's where we're at for Hawaii Island. We're in the process in Maui. We're wrapping up the planning process and getting close to starting the implementation process for Maui. Okay.

And so we're working down the island chain. Is that how you're doing this?

Go to Oahu next. There seems to be a lot of interest in us bringing this to Oahu, but we're probably looking at 2027 before we start. We're we're able to have the capacity to start the process on Oahu.

And then once you start, when do you think the Big Island will be power?

Big Island, we can only move at the pace of community. Right. But, Maui, you know, there's a setback with the Lahaina fires. Right. Maui, we're at about two years.

So I would I would think White Island, two years would be my guess.

Okay.

Alright.

I'm sorry. But the, but the rulemaking to reopen West Hawaii is going before the communities to public hearing next week. So Holomua is not going to happen before then. It It would be interesting to know what DART thinks about whether they'd go back and revisit the West Hawaii EIS or the West Hawaii AQ rules after the whole process is complete.

Just to follow-up to continue with one question I had, but also to follow-up with Senator Ritchie's question. Was always been supportive of the legislature, and you were in the right track in, the best method, for that process. Well, referring back to what I was going to ask, what is the court case about?

The court case, there's been several court cases dealing with aquarium fishing, but

More on the aquarium.

So so, the initial one was a ruling that required all commercial aquarium collection using fine mesh net to, be compliant with Chapter 343 which the the board has directed an EIS to be compliant. So that's that was the court decision.

And hasn't been decided yet?

It has been this the court has ruled on that. West Hawaii has completed the EIS.

So there's no court case right now?

There are

two. There are two right now.

With regards to aquarium fishing?

Yes.

Okay. Reason I'm asking that as a former mayor, I was always advised by our corporation counsel and no different from attorney generals here when there's a court case. And when there's discussion on the same subject matter that nothing should be decided because it affects the decision for the judges on what's happening in communities. So I just wanted to say say that under of caution that we should be very careful what we do because it's going to probably affect the decisions by the courts.

So I just wanted to share that with you, and I've said that in another hearings, not with regards to particularly the subject matter, but other issues that are out there in the courts.

That anything that we we do, we should be very careful. So just just sharing. Okay. Thank you.

To get moving, I'll just end with one question, which was of all the islands, Holumo has not begun for Oahu, but you're saying sometime 2027 maybe?

Yes. Yes. And

as we spoke about in other hearings, Oahu it's it's been somewhat, I think, well, it's hopeful to hear because Oahu obviously is the most by far impacted island according to Dar. Is that right? Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Thank you everybody. Thank you everyone for your patience as we get through this, we do have a number of other agendas. So I wanna turn it back over to

wait. No. We we got one more.

Oh, what I meant was I wanna move on to HB 2103 relating to the land use commission, which amends the composition of land use commission to permit more than one member who has substantial experience or expertise in traditional Hawaiian stuff. We'd ask folks, just given the timing, if you have your written testimony, please consider just standing on that, so we can get through the agenda. So testifying first on 2103. Okay. You know what?

We're gonna take a quick recess for, like, ten seconds.

Hello everyone. We are gaveling in on the 110 agenda of the Committee of Hawaiian Affairs and Committee on Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs. We are here in Room 224. We are gaveling in real quick, then we're gonna go into recess, and go back to our other agenda. Chair of EIG, do you wanna gavel in as well?

Or we're good?

Okay. There we got it. So now we're gonna recess and go back to our other hearing.

Alright. Thank you. Thanks for the patience. We're on HB 2103. Up first is DLNR.

Support Office of Hawaiian Affairs. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

We stand our attention.

Thank you.

Aloha, chair, vice chairs, members of the committee. I'll be brief, but I did want to, say a few comments. Again, this is another OHA package measure, so it's a priority for us. The Land Use Commission is incredibly important for protection of our vie resources, which the events of the past few days reminded us we cannot take the availability of our drinking water for granted.

And the Land Use Commission makes decisions that affect development on our islands for decades, so we really think that it's a small amendment that we're asking for, but it's critical to make sure that there is someone with expertise and experience in water management when they are making these entitlement decisions to have this information and this data and the right questions asked at the back end.

And this also helps developers down the road, with their planning as well as empowering community to be heard in the commission, which is a forum that is especially suited for protecting native Hawaiian rights, public trust in water, and, other interests of the community. So mahalo for hearing this bill.

Thank you. Up next is the Land Use Commission.

Thank you. Next is Sierra Club. Thank you. Kenu Beni Maderas. Thank you.

Kapiolani Spencer.

Not present on Zoom, chair.

K. Miles Miyasato. Nope. K. That's everyone who's trying to testify on.

Excuse me. Chair Miles is present on Zoom.

Miles. Go ahead. You're muted.

I come before you today as a retired union representative and currently tending to horses and cattle. I'm speaking in opposition of HB 2103. The current process already allows OHA to send a water expert representative to attend and share concerns or support with the land use commission or correspond prior with SeaWorld or OPSD. It's actually OPSD that has the responsibility for an environmental review or petitions before the land use commission. OPSD has a open public comment period.

So, again, there's already an established avenue. This measure strips away the core reason for having boards and commission boards and commissions were created to provide an opportunity for citizens to have a voice in their government and provide a means of influencing decision that shape the quality of life for the residents of Hawaii. Thank you for your time.

Thank you very much. Okay. Are there any questions on 2103? Seeing none. That's the last one on our 01:01 pm agenda. Let me turn it back over to the

Do you want to recess and get the ticket done?

Yeah. Okay. We'll do a quick recess.

Hello, everyone. This is going back into session on the joint committee hearings of Hawaiian Affairs and Water, Land, and Culture and the Arts. This is a 01:01 agenda. We are reconvening for decision making on three measures. The first measure is HB 1087 House Draft 2.

It is the recommendation of the chair to pass with the amendments that have been proposed by the Department of Hawaiian Homelands and of the Attorney General's Office. Just to clarify some things and make it move smoother. So with that, any discussion on that conversation?

Seeing none, vice chair for the vote. Chair votes aye.

Okay. Members were voting on HB 1087 HD 2 recommendation of the chair's pass with amendments. Chair votes aye, vice chair also votes aye. Senator Ihara is excused.

Senator Keohokalole is also excused. Senator Decorte?

Aye.

Chair recommendation is adopted.

Thank you. And now I'm gonna turn this over to my colleague, Chair Lee.

Thank you. Moving on to HB 2101 relating to commercial aquarium collection. I appreciate the indulgence of the. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, we gotta vote first on HB 1087 same recommendation for the wildlife.

Chair's recommendation on the Committee of Water, Land, Culture and the Arts is to pass HB 1087 House Draft 2 with amendments. Chair Lee?

Vice chair goes aye. Senator Chang?

Aye.

Aye.

Senator Lamosao?

Senator DeCorte?

Aye.

Aye.

Measure is adopted, mister chair.

Thank you. Okay. Now we're back on HB 2101. Appreciate everyone's patience as we work through this quite lengthy hearing and discussion. I'll recognize first that there's nothing that we can do to make everybody happy.