Senate Standing Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Senate Committee on Public Safety and Military affairs. Today is January 242025 and we are in Conference Room 225. This hearing is also being streamed on the Hawaii State Senate YouTube's channel. A few housekeeping announcement.

In the unlikely case of technical failures, this meeting will reconvene here in Conference Room 225 at 3:10pm on January 27th. For all testifiers, including those on Zoom, we ask that you stand on your written testimony. If your oral testimony is different from your written testimony, the time limit for each testifier will be one minute.

The content, including the hearing notice and copies of the bills and testimony can be found on the Legislature's website. And if time permits, decision making worker. After we hear from those offering testimony, I'd like to welcome our Committee Members. And before we begin off, I'd like to wish our fellow Committee Member Senator Rhodes a happy birthday.

With that, our first item on Our agenda is SB48 relating to the State Building Code Council. Requires the State Building Code Council to assess the financial impact of the adoption of a code or standard on a single family and multifamily homes.

Requires the State Building Code Council to also include amortized utility costs when adopting codes or standards and amends annual reporting requirements for the State Building Code Council to include assessment of costs and determinations of benefits for residents. On our testifier list, we have Kiko Bukowski on Zoom.

Dennis Knight not present on Zoom chair.

Okay. This one in person is Roseanne Freitas. Okay. Standing on testimony and support. And we have Wayne Tanaka, Sierra Club on Zoom, also not present on Zoom chair. Okay. And then the other testifiers, but did not register. But just. I'll just read them. We have Is John Shockey testifying for Free Access Coalition.

In opposition, Kamala Thompap for Maui Chamber of Commerce. In support, we also have Dave Molinex. In opposition, David Arakawa from Lurf. In support, Peter Wilson, Michael Koester, Bo Breda, Patricia Belair, Daniel Chun, Matthew Gorewich, Maki Morneau, Julio Maga, Ayes, Harriet Bulk Holder. And we also. These are all in opposition.

Harvey Arkin, Mary True, Diane Ware, Millicent Cox, Sherry Pollock, Richard First Shy Blair Stan, Barbara Best, Colin Hayashida, Charles Ayes, Sadie Green, Laura Leonberger and Emily Gambino, all in opposition. Is there anyone that wishes to testify on SB48?

Okay.

If not Members, SB48, it's relating to the State Building Co. Council. Okay. If not Members. Any questions? Okay, we'll move on to our next Item. Which is SB120 or I'm going to go back if there's Kiko Bukowski or Pamela Tom Path. Are they available?

It they are not available. Chair.

Thank you. We'll move on to our next Item which is SB120 relating to building codes. This amends responsibilities of the State Building Code Council. First on our testifier list is Stella Kam, Deputy Attorney General. Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. I'm Stella Kam, Deputy Attorney General. We've submitted testimony with comments that suggests amending other provisions within Chapter 107 hrs if this Bill goes through amending the responsibilities of the State Building Code Council. And I'm available for questions if you have any.

Thank you so much. Next register testifier is Brian Imai. Anju.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. Chair Elephante and Members of the Committee. My name is Brian Imai. I'm the Hawaii Government Relations Manager for the International Code Council, a non profit corporation focused on building safety with others with over 64,000 Members in 41 countries. I'm here because unfortunately ICC opposes SB120 as written.

And while we generally stand in our written testimony, I'd like to briefly elaborate on some concerns that ICC has with the Bill.

As currently written, the Bill would codify the current adoption cycle change in Hawaii that would remove the current required adoption of modern building codes by the State Building Code Council two years after publication and then adoption within two years following and replace it with a recommendation system with no clear deadlines for building code adoption by counties.

It also appears that the Bill removes the method for the adoption of the State building code which appears to conflict with other portions of Section 107. So so ICC would ask for clarification on the intent for that change.

It's no secret that even with the current requirements in place, counties in Hawai'I are often understaffed and find it challenging to adopt codes strictly adhering to the statutory timeline.

Thank you, Mr. Imai.

Thank you.

Next SFHIR didn't register, but we have Ted Kofelis from Grassroots Institute of Hawaii in support. Dennis Knight on zoom.

In opposition not present on Zoom Chair Kiko Bukolski.

Excuse me. Dennis Knight is from Ashrae. I'm also from Ashrae. I'd submit the testimony on his behalf. Would it be okay for me to speak?

We we have your written testimony, but if you want to just highlight a remarks. Normally it's supposed to be the testifier who's registered.

My apologies. Yes, I would like to expand briefly on my Written remarks. Yeah. Please proceed. Yes. So at the heart of this, I think, is an idea that building codes and standards increase housing costs in the state. And that is something that we would like to contest.

Our interest is most specifically in relation to the energy code in Hawaii. It is made in a way that references many of ASHRAE's standards. The most rigorous and accurate study on the cost versus the return on investment for code updates in Hawaii was conducted by the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory.

Their conclusion is that living in a home built to a modern standard should save the homeowner about 15% on their energy Bill a bit over 900 per year. In terms of cost, they'd be looking at a down payment increase of about $288 and a mortgage increase of only about $6. This absolutely pencils out economically.

Total upfront construction, construction cost increase should be about $2,300. So we do not believe that building codes are in any way responsible for high housing prices. Thank you. That includes my testimony.

You said your name was Jacob Carson, is that correct?

Jacob Carson, Yes.

Okay, thank you. Next we have is Gina Thielen from bia.

Aloha, Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Gina Thielen. I'm the volunteer building codes chair Committee for BIA Hawaii. I'm here to testify in support of SB120. I always like to start off every conversation about building codes by sharing this, which takes a little bit to lift when we talk about the building codes.

This is the building code. Every three years. The organizations that sell these books to all of us republish these books. No one is making them do that. That's their own schedule. There's no advantage to the State of Hawaii by promoting the advancement of these codes.

The fact of the matter is existing codes that we're building under are very safe and energy efficient. And there is an increase in cost with every single code cycle. So I would dispute that testifier that came before me. I would say that what we're trying to do here is eliminate some of the steps.

We currently have a three tiered cake where we have a national organization on a 2024 code, a state on 2021 code, and counties on the 2018 code. This would be. zero, thank you.

Next SFR we have is Wayne Tanaka from the Sierra Club.

Okay, Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Wayne Tanaka, Circle Bahoy. We are in strong opposition to this measure.

You know, delaying deferring billing code updates will have, you know, significant long term impacts on everything from, you know, insurance rates to tenant resident and first responder safety, to, you know, cost of utilities, you know, our water security or energy security, our ability to meet those kinds of demands.

We think that this Bill, just like SB48, seeks to focus attention on upfront costs to developers and in that process, you know, ignores all these long term burdens we're taking on if we keep up to date these, well, valid, well researched standards that are, as the previous testify mentioned, are actually developed from lessons learned from around the planet.

So just respectfully ask that you hold this measure and have some questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Wayne. Also we have Reed Mizui in opposition, Pamela Tumpep in support, Dave Mullenix in opposition, David Arakawa in support, William Reese Liggett in opposition, Peter Wilson in opposition, Bo Breda in opposition, Michael Kohser in opposition, Daniel G. Chun in opposition, Patricia Blair in opposition, John Shockley in opposition.

Julio Maglajes in opposition, Harriet Burkholder in opposition, Matthew Guruch, Mary True and Harvey Arkin in opposition. And some late testimony received is Diane Ware, Millicent Cox, Richard First, Sherry Pollock, Chai Blair, Stan, Barbara Best, Charles Ayes, Roberta Foster, Sadie Green, Laura Leonberger and Emily Gambino, all in opposition.

Is there anyone else that wishes to testify on SB120, if not Members? Questions? I have one question for Gina. Yes, sir. Hi, Gina. Thank you for being here for your testimony. So my understanding now is that with the emergency proclamation that the State Building Code Council has been suspended, is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

Okay. And I know I didn't see testimony from the different counties and this Bill would give the counties that authority. Does BIA have they heard from county building departments in terms of what their position may be?

We have not heard positions on this Bill directly, but what we have heard from them is that they are desperate for relief from the pace of change with building codes, that they're struggling to keep up and they're struggling to change their staff.

Frankly, I think that they're all a little bit too overwhelmed to get involved in testifying on some of these measures. But generally the conversations I've had with them, they support the concept.

They really see the state as being a resource that can provide the research and information to them for them to be able to make the information, make the decisions they need to make at the local level.

Okay, thank you Members. Any questions? If not, thank you. Our next item is SB138 relating to taxation. This establishes a non refundable income tax credit for taxpayers that incur costs related to design, materials Installation and construction of hurricane resistant safe rooms. From the Department of Tax, we have Director Gary Suganuma.

Okay, Department of Tax stands on the written comments from. Hi Ema. We have Administrator James Barros on zoom.

Hi, Chair. Unfortunately administer. Barros is away on a meeting, but I wanted to just stand on his testimony with.

You can identify yourself, Mr. Oki?

Yes, this is it. Oki from Haima, Hawaii Emergency Management Agency.

Okay, so stand on your written testimony with comments.

Yes, sir.

Okay, thank you. Last on the test fire list we have is Tom Yamachika from Tax foundation of Hawaii.

Not present. zero, in person. Actually not on zoom.

Not this time. It's nice to see you in person, Tom.

Once in a while this happens. Aloha and welcome. Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Tom Yamachika from Tax foundation of Hawaii. On this Bill we have some concerns because there are plenty of blanks in it. The credit rate, the per person cap and the aggregate cap are all blank.

So it's impossible to revenue estimate the Bill and otherwise vet it. So we recommend that the blanks be filled in as soon as possible. Also, we conceptually have a problem with credits and we.

We would rather see programs like this be subsidies like Hawaii Energy does it, because then you know how much you're spending, you know what you're getting, and you don't have to worry about floods of people coming in.

And even if there's an aggregate cap, if the total claims exceed the aggregate cap, then you have to deal with them next year. Happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Mr. Yamachiko.

That completes our list of testifiers for this item. Members, any questions? If not, move on to our next Bill, which is SB112 relating to police reports.

Allow surviving immediate family Members of deceased persons for whom law enforcement initiated investigation to receive a copy of the closing report prepared by the investigating Police Department after a specific period of time. First, from the Attorney General's Office, Corey Young, Deputy Attorney General. Hi, welcome.

Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, I'm Corey Young, Deputy Attorney General, speaking on behalf of the Department. We thank you for allowing us this time to offer comments. Just wanted to really emphasize a couple of points. One, we did ask that if the Bill goes forward, that a section be dedicated to allowing for redactions.

As we noted in our testimony, the closing reports will often have witness information, including confidential personal information, Social Security numbers, disposal dates of birth, information like that.

We would ask for it to be explicit that the police or whoever is redacting this be allowed to redact that, as well as the names of minors who might have been interviewed or who might have been part of the investigation.

What we have seen in other cases where minors are involved is the first initial of the minor's name might be allowed in, but the rest of the name has been redacted to keep their anonymity. Other than that, we would just emphasize that, you know, everyone can emphasize, empathize with these families seeking closure.

But a lot of times, law enforcement is not withholding these reports to try and obscure what's going on.

Thank you.

Thank you. I'll be available with any questions.

Thank you. And next we have is Daniel Hugo from the prosecuting attorney's office.

Thank you. Good afternoon. Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. You can identify yourself? Yes. Daniel Hugo from the City and County of Honolulu Department of the prosecuting Attorney. We submitted written comments in opposition to this Bill, and we identified four of the major concerns that we had.

But I just wanted to also note that under the current law, HRS section 92F 15, there is a judicial remedy to review an agency's denial of these reports. So there is a process for a judge to review this. The Office of Information Practices can also review it. And that's under hrs section 92F 15.5.

And if the Committee has any further questions, I'm available.

Thank you. Thank you. That completes our list of testifiers for this item. Is there anyone else in the audience? Yes. Please come forward. Aloha and welcome. If you can state your name for the record, please.

Aloha and Allah. My name is Angela Korov Sr., here to testify. Actually, I think they should let people like me get access to the report because when I tried to. When my son was murdered, it took, like, years, and we had to pay page by page. I don't think that's right.

So I think I agree with this thing that we should have a Bill for that. And, you know, being that it's been 20 years since no justice, still, you know, I mean, it's just a point of, you know, like, we. I've been trying 20 years to get justice, and still nothing.

But the parties have finally got the report, and now they're saying the report is not worth anything because it's been 20 years ago. We're all the people that had been interviewed, they no longer live where they used to live. You know what I mean? Like, some of them moved out.

So that's why they say most of the report is kind of squashed, because they cannot get a hold of the witnesses, you know, and then the whole thing is, is that my. My son was murdered. I mean, he just to explain that he had no. What you call defensive wounds. Right.

And this guy claimed that was self defense. My son was surrounded by them. And one of them is devil. And that's what happened.

Thank you, Mr. Nicola. Anyone else that wishes to testify on SB112? Not Members. Questions. Senator Rhodes.

Andrew.

Nicole, if you got time, if you have time. I did have a question for you. Yeah. So your son was killed in 2000?

zero, Mr.

October 152004.

2004. When did you get the report?

10 years after, maybe.

When did you start to try to get the report? Took roughly nine years. Is that fair? Okay. And in the report, stuff was. There were things marked out, weren't there?

Yeah.

So redactions were already occurring. They mark stuff out. They didn't put in people's Social Security numbers and stuff like that?

No, they actually. Because it's this guy, the suspect was underage. He was like 17. So they black out his. His name. Okay. And then certain people's name was also.

How much did they want to charge you for it?

Well, I don't know, like $5 per page or something like that.

How long it was. How big was the report?

Like almost 40 pages.

So $5 a page too much?

Yeah.

So that you couldn't afford that. Okay. All right, thanks, Chair. Thanks. Thanks, Andrew. Appreciate it. Thank you, Mr.

Carlos. Thank you, Mr. Nicole, for being here. Members, any other questions? Chair has questions for Deputy Attorney General Young. Hi. So we did. The Committee's received your testimony. I know. You did mention something else. I don't know if that was in addition to your written comments on the redaction part.

Is that in addition or is that contained in your testimony? It's contained. Okay, thank you. Any other questions? If not, I will move on to our next Bill, which is SB88 relating to the Hawaii National Guard. Authorizes the payment of allowances for tricare. Tricare?

Dental program and vision coverage to all officers, warrant officers and enlisted personnel of the Hawaii National Guard. Order to active duty for more than 30 days. First on the list is Walter Ross, Director of the Joint Chief for the National Guard. In support. Yes, Colonel, Welcome.

If you can state your name, Colonel Jamie Lynn Thompson, Chief of the Joint Staff. I'm here representing General Ross as well as the tag General Logan, standing on our written testimony in support of SB88. And I'm available for any questions as needed.

Okay, thank you so much. Colonel, we have General Logan testifying for Department of Defense. In support. Maui Kizon. Raymond Maui Kizon. In support. Michael Gulachuch Sr. In support. Regina Komine. In support. Ricardo Martin. In support. Ty Tanaka. In support. Misty Capps. In support. Darrilyn Lee. In support. Ryan Shular. In support. Kevin Horton. Colonel Kevin Horton. In support.

Dana Ayala. In support. Eliza Dia Kanai. In support. I'm sorry if I mispronounce your name. Grant Remington. In support. That completes our list of testifiers or anyone else that wishes to testify on SB88, if not Members. Questions? Okay, seeing none. Move on to our next Item, which is SB116 relating to discrimination.

This establishes provisions relating to civil remedies for discriminatory reporting to a law enforcement officer.

Provides that any person who contacts a law enforcement officer to contact a person on the basis of the person's actual perceived race, color, ancestry, ethnicity, national origin, place of birth, sex, age, religion, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity with the specific intent to infringe upon the person's certain rights.

Requires the Department of Law Enforcement, in consultation with the Hawai'I Civil Rights Commission, to provide guidance to the public on the enactment of this act. On our testifier list, we have Kathy Seal testifying for the Department of Law Enforcement. In support. On Zoom. Abby Simmons.

Hello, Chair. Aloha. Chair. Vice Chair. Esteemed Members of the Committee, my name is Abby Simmons. I am the chair of the Stonewall Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii, and I'm testifying. Sorry, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Okay. Apologies for that. I'm just lying. In strong support on behalf of our caucus.

We do stand on our written testimony. I would like to, however, add one comment. This Bill really comes at a time when we're seeing increased reports in media about people being harassed about not looking American enough, whatever American enough looks like. So I ask you to please support this Bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Victor Ramos in opposition. Michael Older in support. Lynn Robinson Ondenco in support. And ISIS Osborne in support. That completes our list of testifiers. Is there anyone else in the audience that wish to testify on this item? Yes, Angela.

Melody Young, testifying in strong support. So the Legislature finds that the vigilance of an individual citizen can keep communities safe through the reporting of witnessed criminal conduct to law enforcement. Yet it seems like there are people who are abusing their power to report things. And when it affects protected classes, I think it's a civil right.

When you have harassed someone, for example, they don't look American enough. They look like, zero, they from Waianae. zero, they probably got plenty things going on in that neighborhood and you're going to try arrest them. That is not what's supposed to happen. So that's a discriminatory practice. And so we do neighborhood security walk.

We've organized with like, for example, of a beach district and within our churches with MGMC Moanalua Gardens. So we're really supportive of law enforcement procedures and to elevate and if you could submit those written comments to the Committee.

For sure. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, that completes our list of testifiers. Anyone else in the audience that wishes to testify on SB116? Okay. If not Members. Short recess. Short recess. It's the Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs. We're reconvening. This is our 3:00pm Friday, January 242025 agenda.

Members Chair's recommendation for the first two measures, SB48 and SB120, and seeing the written testimony and also not seeing any written testimony from the county building departments. Chair's gonna recommend both of those measures be deferred. Any further discussion on that? Okay. If not, next measure is SB138 relating to taxation.

Chair is going to recommend that we pass with amendments. We're going to accept dole taxes suggested amendments on page 2 of their testimony to read as follows. Section 235H be Addedh. No other tax credit or deduction shall be claimed under this chapter for qualified expenses for the taxable year.

And we're going to amend the effective date to July 12077 and any technical amendments. Any discussion on that? Okay. If not, Vice Chair Wakai for the vote.

Members are about to vote on Senate Bill 138. Chair's recommendations to pass this measure with amendments. Chair Elevante. Aye. I vote yes. Senator Fukunaga. Aye. Senator Rhodes. Aye. Senator De Cart.

No.

Chair recommendation is adopted.

Thank you, Vice Chair. Moving on to our next Measure, which is SB112 relating to police reports. Chair is going to recommend that we pass with amendments.

We're going to accept the AG suggested language by deleting the word from Section 52D, A, beginning at page 2, line 12, quote comma, the passage of five years after close comma, through the end of subsection a at page two, line 21. This is also under written comments.

And then on page two, line 11, the word any criminal proceeding should be changed to all criminal proceedings. And we're going to also take the suggested language from the ags, a provision that would require the redaction of information pertaining to minors and confidential personal information. Such as birth dates and Social Security numbers when the report is released.

And we're going to make any technical amendments and leave the effective date as it is. Any further discussion on the recommendation?

Okay.

If not, Vice Chair for the vote.

Members, Chair's recommendation is to pass Senate Bill 112 with amendments. Chair Elefante? Aye. I vote yes. Senator Okinaga? Aye. Senator Rose? Aye. Senator Decourt? No. Chair, your recommendations adopted.

Thank you so much. Vice Chair, our next measure is relating to the Hawaii National Guard. SB88. Chair's recommendation is to pass as is. Any further discussion. If not, Vice Chair for the vote.

Members, we're about to vote on Senate Bill 88, noting the presence of all Members, any opposition or reservations to the Chair's recommendation to pass this measure as is not. Chair recommendations adopted.

Okay, thank you so much. And our final item on the agenda is SB116 relating to discrimination. Chair's recommendations to pass with amendments. We're going to amend the effective date to July 12077 and any technical amendments. Any further discussion? Okay. If not, Vice Chair for the vote, noting the presence of all Members.

Any opposition or reservations to the Chair's recommendation. We pass this measure with amendments heard. None. Chair, your recommendations adopted.

Okay. This concludes our 3:00pm agenda for today.

We are adjourned.