Senate Standing Committee on Public Safety and Military Affairs

Foreign welcome to the Senate Committee on Public Safety and Military affairs. Today is January 272025 and we are in conference room 225. This hearing is also being streamed on the Hawaii State Senate's YouTube channel. A few housekeeping announcements in the unlikely case of technical failures.

This meeting will reconvene here in Conference Room 2 to 5 at 3:10pm on January 29. For all testifiers, including those on Zoom, we ask that you stand on your written testimony. If your oral testimony is different from your written testimony, the time limit for each testifier will be one minute.

The content, including the hearing notice, copies of the bills and testimony can be found on the Legislature's website. If time permits, decision making will occur after we hear from those offering testimony.

First on our agenda is Senate Bill 224, relating to identification. Requires the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation in collaboration with the various agencies and upon request of the inmates to assist inmates in obtaining the inmate's civil identification card, birth certificate, Social Security card, and other relevant identification necessary for successful reentry into society as soon as practical.

Requires the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation to initiate the process of obtaining identifying documents for inmates released to work furlough, extended furlough, or community placement programs by providing forms necessary for the inmate to obtain civil identification cards and other identifying documents to the inmate as soon as possible. On our testifier list, Director Tommy Johnson from DCR. Okay, thank you so much. DCR in support. Christin Johnson, oversight coordinator.

Aloha. My name is Christin Johnson. I'm the oversight coordinator for the Hawaii Correctional System Oversight Commission. We stand in support of our testimony and just wanted to reiterate that we agree with the department that reentry should start on day one. Thank you.

Thank you. From the director of Human Services, State of Hawaii, we have Director Ryan Yamane offering comments. Rebecca Like, prosecuting attorney in support, County of Kauai. Louis Erteschik testifying for the Hawaii Disability Rights Center in support. Alexis Charpentier, CEO for Waikiki Health in support. Kat Brady.

Good afternoon, Senator and all Senators. Kat Brady testifying in strong support of this measure for Community Alliance on Prisons. One of the things that I noticed in my research was that some jurisdictions actually help people get driver's licenses, and that might be a good thing. And this is something that I'm going to give to the department because it's a whole list of things from the Department of Transportation on how you can actually do this right.

Thank you.

Thanks.

We have Sydney Story testifying for Opportunity for Youth Action Hawaii in support. Michael Oder in support. Veronica Moore, Sylvie Madison, and Carolyn Eaton, all in support. Is there anyone wishes to testify on this issue? Yes, Please come forward.

Angela Melody Young, ROAR, CARES. I'm in strong support, and I submitted testimony online. I don't know if you got it, though. Okay. So without identification, people cannot go to bars, rent an apartment, book a hotel room, or buy a car. Each year, more than 600,000 people are released from state and federal prisons. And many times these people reentering society do not have the opportunity or means to obtain important identification documents.

So individuals reentering society often face burdensome barriers when obtaining housing and employment due to difficulties with identification. To address this issue, states have adopted a variety of laws to help prior offenders with identification issues when reintegrating with society. And this policy snapshot can provide states with a set of standards as a focus to helping inmates. For example, some states have chosen to work with the DMV. So people writing for these policies relating to this topic.

Thank you. That completes our list of registered testifiers. Is there anyone else in the audience that wishes to testify on SB 224? Members, questions? I have a question for Director Johnson. Thank you, director, and thank you for your testimony in support.

So, on the Commission of Oversight's testimony, it did highlight that a report that 10,500 individuals were released in 2022 and only 150 received identification cards and 32 were provided at no cost and then gives the spending at about 62,000. I know last time we've heard about an issue like this, a proposed legislation, the department was attempting to work with, specifically, the Customer Services Division at the City and County of Honolulu. How has that relationship been in terms of getting some of these ID cards or materials that you need?

We have the satellite ID card machine up and running at Halawa. It's been running for a while. What the delay we experienced was that they were going to upgrade their machines and potentially change the vendor. So we had to wait until they made their decision before we purchase the new satellite ID card machines. Now that we have the specifications, we will purchase them for the four facilities in a certain order we've determined based on the population and our experience where the need is.

And you have funding in your budget to go ahead and procure and purchase that equipment?

Yes, we do.

Okay, thank you. Members, any other questions? Okay. Oh, that's good. If not, thank you. We'll move on to our next bill, SB 474, relating to psychologists.

This requires clinical psychologists employed by the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation to obtain licensure within 10 years from the date of employment. Sunsets on July 1, 2035. First from the Department of DCR is Director Johnson.

Thank you, Chair Elefante, Vice Chair Wakai, Members of the Committee. I'll just summarize my testimony since I have one minute. We support this measure. We strongly support this measure. A couple of challenges that the applicants face. In 2024, only 54.17% passed the, it looks like passed the testing. The national average is approximately 32%.

So while Hawaii is doing better than most, we're still losing psychologists left and right. Right now, of 23 clinical psychologists positions, 20 of them are currently vacant. The three positions we filled are unlicensed and one person is coming up on the two year limitation. We did submit corrected testimony. The last sentence of paragraph two on the second page read contract. That should read statutory. Subject to your questions, that's all I have. We think this is needed.

Thank you, director. Next up is Melissa Pavlicek, committee chair for testifying for the Hawaii Psychological Association.

Aloha, Senators. We stand on our written testimony expressing concerns and just wanted to be available for questions.

Could you identify yourself, please?

Melissa Pavlicek on behalf of the Hawaii Psychological Association.

Okay, thank you.

Thanks.

And Veronica Moore in opposition. That completes our list of registered testifiers. Anyone else that wishes to testify on SB 474? Yes.

Angela Melody Young, ROAR, CARES. Brief comment. So this is about the requirements for psychologists serving in civil service clinical positions to get a license during employment. So my comment is, shouldn't it be prior to employment? For example, many people in jails and prisons in the United States have mental health issues that are occurring prior to their offense. They offend because they have deep rooted behavior, mental health problems that create violent and disturbing behavior. So they have disproportionate effects in their health and wealth disparity, so they lack the access to have mental health care.

And so let's say they have a history of mental illness, a diagnosis of mental illness, or a series of mental health symptoms. To provide the best care in correctional facilities, shouldn't the doctors be licensed before dealing with the most vulnerable population? Criminal justice systems has a disproportionate impact upon those who already have the health disparities. And to create the equity is to make sure that the doctors practicing in the correctional facilities are abiding by the highest standards of the law.

Thank you. Is there anyone else that wishes to testify on SB 474? If not Members. Questions? If I could bring back Ms. Pavlicek and Director Johnson, if you two don't mind coming up. Hi. Would you be open if we were to amend it rather than 10 years to a shorter time frame and add a sunset clause to the proposed measure? Would that be okay with you? Instead of 10 years?

Should we look at the nine?

More like five.

The Psychological Association really wanted to express the need to have strong and uniform standards regardless of the vulnerable population. But I think your idea to reduce the number of years and perhaps put a sunset is a good one.

Fair enough.

Okay. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Okay. Members? Oh, yeah. Vice Chair Wakai.

I'm trying to understand the problem and this solution that we're chasing here. So if we were to not extend the opportunity to 10 years, then, Dr. Johnson, you have even fewer. You said what, three out of the 23 positions are filled?

Correct.

So if you don't get this kind of reprieve, then we could have 0 out of 23 there to service anybody in the criminal justice system?

That is a possibility. I think I would prefer the 10 years, but if the negotiation is at 5, then we'll have to try to get them licensed at 5. But we also take and we contract with private providers to kind of fill the pukas that we have.

Okay, so, Melissa, I understand your position. You want to raise the bar and not diminish the value?

Or at least maintain the bar. And I think really, the work that the Legislature is doing to address the affordability of homes, reducing the cost of living, ensuring a good, you know, then we're attracting more of a healthcare workforce to Hawaii. So we really want to look at the working conditions for psychologists and for other health care workers.

So reducing the amount of, you know, lengthening the amount of time before you have to get licensed doesn't seem like the best safety measure. And I understand, and we definitely acknowledge the lack of psychologists available, but look to other solutions to address it.

Okay, can you share with us just briefly, like, what are the other solutions? Because it seems like we're just fiddling around with the lack here, but we're not getting to the root cause, which is a lack of psychologists.

I mean, I think it's an overall lack of healthcare professionals in our state, not just psychologists, but it is a comprehensive issue of not having enough qualified workers for many reasons related to quality of life, quality of work in the workplace, and things like that. So just extending the time for psychologists to be able to get licensed, especially for a long period of time, like 10 years, it doesn't seem like a good answer. Might do more harm than good.

Okay, thank you.

This may be a DHRD question, but one thing that Legislature may want to consider is some type of shortage differential or some type of pay incentive for those that work in correctional facilities. Because as a psychologist, they would probably rather work in a clinical setting and not a jail or prison. The atmosphere and the physical layout and the stresses are completely different, particularly in the jail setting where there's movement day in and day out, 24/7.

Yep. Senator DeCorte.

For director, Is your agency putting maybe increased salaries into your budget just being that you suggested to?

We can't just increase the salary because it's based on the salary schedule as set with civil service. What I did do, though, I recently submitted a request to DHRD to put a shortage differential on every classification of work where we're 20% and higher vacancies to kind of address that.

Members, any other questions? Okay. If not, thank you. Thank you. Moving on to our next bill, which is SB353 relating to emergency management. Amends Chapter 127a hrs to clarify state and local authority. Prohibits the Governor or mayor from suspending requests for public records or vital specifics during a State of an emergency.

Adds definition of the term severe warning. Allows the Legislature and city councils to terminate a State of emergency in whole or in part issued by the Governor or mayor, respectively. First we have is Carlotta Amarino, Director of the Office of Information Practices, submitting comments. Director Yamane on Zoom. Or maybe there's other testifiers from DHS. Hello.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Members, I am. Amanda Stevens, Public Information Officer for the Department of Human Services. DHS has provided comments and written testimony and we're available for questions. Mahalo.

Thank you so much. Administrator Barros from HYMA.

Hello, Chair, Vice Chair. Members of the Committee, how you must stands on a written testimony opposing this one.

And if you could just identify yourself, please.

James Barros from HYMA.

Thank you. We also have Ben Crips for testifying for Public First Law center in support. Douglas Meller testifying for League of Women Voters of Hawaii in support, Ted Kaphalis, Director of Strategic Campaigns, Grassroots Institute of Hawaii in support. And the following others in support, Jacob Weineck, Brett Kolbus and Lynn Matisaw in support.

And that completes our list of registered testifiers for SB353. Anyone else? Okay. If not Members. Questions? One question for Administrator Barros. Thank you. I know this has come up before in the past, but could you share with the Committee and the public what your specific opposition is to the proposed bill?

Towards the end of the bill where it says that the Legislator or the City Council can suspend an emergency proc. During an emergency. We want the. From my perspective, we want the Executive to have the flexibility during that emergency proclamation. It. It allows us to tap into the MDF, the Major Disaster Fund.

And I'm afraid that if the legislators decide. Okay. And override the Governor on the emergency proclamation, then it closes some avenues for us for emergency management.

Okay, thank you, Members. Other questions. Senator Rhoads.

let me follow up on that. So if, if that. If we knew that to be the case, why would the Legislature cut off. The emergency if there was. If we still needed it and there was some reason to keep going with it? I mean, it's just substituting the. It's. It's simply.

It's one group of people making the. Decision instead of another. But why. Why do you believe that the Legislature would be a worse decision maker for that particular decision?

We're leaving it with the Governor to make that decision.

That's my question. Why?

I. He would. He would have overall holistic perspective of what. What we're trying to do in the response.

And we don't.

No, no. Not saying that you don't, but he'll see the holistic approach of where we're trying to get to from the emergency managers to the recovery aspect.

Okay. All right, thanks.

Yes, Senator DeCorte.

In your testimony you had said quoting would limit Executive. Powers, would be limitations to. To the use of any monies from. The Major Disaster Fund. Is that speculative or is that something you know to be true? Because it seemed just pretty subjective as far as it might limit funding, it. May limit Executive power.

So. Just wondering. It was a strong statement.

Yeah, it will. Without the emergency proc. We don't have access to the Major Disaster Fund, so it would close that off for us.

Thank you. Any other questions? Senator Fukunaga?

You know, it would seem that the language of the bill is kind of tailored, you know, to avoid interfering with emergencies or disasters that are kind of obvious, you know, wildfires, etc, etc. It seems that the language on the last page does not Otherwise interfere with FEMA's and the Executive branches responsibilities.

It's kind of more, I think, you know, in terms of the. What was it? I guess the most recent experience was the ongoing set of Covid emergency proclamations. There are some. And I think for those who served on the City Council, we had many complaints from individuals who felt as though.

Though they were being unfairly restricted or restrained during that kind of time period. I guess it would seem to be that this language is more directed at instances where the need for immediate emergency services and management has sort of ended and the conditions seem to be normal.

And so I think that's kind of more what the language of the bill is intended to address.

Yeah. And I noticed it starts off with our experience with Covid and our ability, from the emergency manager's perspective, is to set the conditions so that we know when the emergency is over. And briefing the Governor and executives on that, saying, at this point, we're no longer in that emergency phase.

So I think we can do a better job from the emergency managers to set that expectations for the Governor and executives and for the legislators, perhaps further.

Crafting of language together with your Department.

Yes.

Okay. Thank you.

Any other questions? If not, thank you, Administrator Barros. Okay, if there's no other testifiers, we'll move on to our next item, which is Senate Bill 259. This is relating to record keeping. Establishes record keeping requirements for secondhand dealers requiring records to be retained for two years from the data cell.

Amends and standardized record keeping requirements for pawn brokers, requiring records to be retained for two years from the date of maturity. The only testifier we have is Council Member Addison Bulosan in support. Anyone else wishes to testify on SB 259? There's no one to ask questions of.

We'll move on to our last Item, which is SB307 relating to recordings of law enforcement activities. Establishes the right of a person to record law enforcement activities. Establishes a private right of action for any violation of the right to record law enforcement activities. First with us is Nathan Lee from ACLU on Zoom.

Not present on Zoom Chair.

Okay, thank you, Natasha. Sandy Ma.

Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. Sandy Ma, for the Legal Clinic. We are testifying in support of this bill. We just have a clarifying question. We wanted to make sure that this bill covers civil enforcement actions. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Douglas Miller in support. Nancy Koklar in support. Tiffany Edwards Hunt in support. Lynn Matasal and Michael Order in support. And then Damon Tucker with comments on Zoom.

Not present on Zoom Chair.

Is there anyone else it on Zoom for this?

No other participants on Zoom Chair.

Anyone else in the audience that wishes to testify on SB307? If not Members, questions? Okay. If not, I'm prepared to roll into decision making if everyone's okay with. Okay. Thank you. Members. For the first one, SB 224 relating to identification recommendation is to pass as is any further discussion. If not Vice Chair Wakai.

[Roll Call] Chair Recommendations adopted.

Okay, thank you so much. Next item on agenda is SB474 relating to psychologists. Recommendation here is to pass with amendments. The amendments will be as follows. On page one, line 10 of the bill, change 10 years to five years. On page two, line two, change the sunset date of July 1, 2035 to July 1, 2030.

And then we're going to change the effective date to July 1, 2077 and any other technical amendments. Any other discussion. Okay? If not, Vice Chair for the vote.

Noting the presence of all Members, any opposition or reservations to the Chair's recommendation, we pass this measure with amendments. Seeing and heard none. Chair recommendations adopted.

Okay, thank you so much. Next one is SB353 relating to emergency management. Recommendation here is to pass with amendments on page 14, line 16, change the effective date from upon approval to July 1, 2077 and any other technical amendments.

Also in the Committee report, we're going to include information that contained in the Department of Human Services testimony, which is on page three, paragraph three. This specifically has to deal with the amount of requests that DHS has gotten in. So we'll start off with that third paragraph where the line starts.

DHS continues to experience an increase in OOPA requests since the Covid 19 pandemic and Maui wildfires. And it goes on to read, There was an 89% increase in UIPA requests from 2019 to 2020. There's a 77% increase in UIAPIA request between 2020 to 2021.

There was an increase of 43% in UIPA requests from 21 to 2022. 2021 to 2022, and there was an increase of 30% in UIAPIA requests from 2022 to 2023. And then additionally, I'd like to add into the Committee report noting the specific opposition for the.

For the parts from HI-EMA, which would be on section E and F. Right, Administrator. So on the bill, this would be on page. We'll just note this in the Committee report, HI-EMA's opposition on page 14, subsection E, which begins at line 7, and subsection F, which begins on line 11. Okay, with that.

That's my recommendation with those amendments. Any further discussion? Okay. If not, Vice Chair for the vote.

Noting the presence of all Members, any opposition or reservations to the Chair's recommendation, we pass this measure with amendment. Seeing and heard none. Chair your recommendation is adopted.

Thank you so much. SB259 relating to recordkeeping. Chair would like to pass with amendments, but defer decision making. Can I defer to Wednesday? Can I add it on the Wednesday agenda? Yeah. Just because we haven't heard. This was a Honolulu Police Department package bill.

There was no testimony from HPD, so I'd like to reach out to HPD to get their input on feedback. So with that being said, I'd like to amend, and then we'll postpone decision making till Wednesday in this room, 225, January 27, 2025 at 3:10pm so the recommendation is we're gonna amend. OH, sorry. 29Th.

January 29, 2025 we're gonna amend and then postpone decision making. And what I'd like to do is on page four, line six, change the effective date to July 1, 2077 and any technical amendments. And then we'll take decision making then. So any further discussion on the proposed amendments, and then we'll do the DM on Wednesday. Okay?

If not, we don't have to take a poll? No. Okay. And then finally, SB307, which is relating to records, recordings of law enforcement activities. Recommendation here is to pass with amendments on page 5, line 8, change the effective date to July 1, 2077 and any technical amendments. Any further discussion? Okay. If not, Vice Chair for the vote.

Noting the presence of all Members. Any opposition or reservations to the Chair's recommendation, we pass this measure with amendments. Seeing and heard none, Chair your recommendation is adopted.

Okay, that concludes our 3pm agenda today. We're adjourned.