Senate Standing Committee on Higher Education

Good afternoon. zero, yeah, it's afternoon. And welcome to our joint informational briefing with the Senate Committee on Economic Development and Tourism and Committee on Higher Education. Today is Tuesday, January 282025 at 1:00pm and we are in Conference Room 2 to 9. This informational briefing is being streamed live on YouTube.

And the unlikely event that we must abruptly end this briefing due to technical difficulties, we're going to try and reconvene as soon as we're able to. In the event we are not able to reconvene today, a new notice will be posted on the Hawaii State Legislature website.

The purpose of the informational briefing is for the Committee to receive an overview and gather information on the State of Hawaii's film industry through workforce development initiatives, funding sources and programs at the University of Hawaii.

As this is an informational briefing, no public testimony will be presented and only those listed on the agenda will be answering questions back and forth along with their Department supervisors and supporting staff. I'd like to do an introduction of the economic development and tourism Members. To the right of me, Vice Chair Wakai.

And in the bright orange ever beach colors, Senator Favela. And to the left of a bright magenta is Senator Fukunaga as well as Senator Kim. Yeah. And then if you'd like to do one on higher education.

Zero, I think he introduced all my higher education Members, Senator.

Okay, so we can. What I'd like to do first, of course, we've been having conversations with many of you and I am going to just open it up for questions based on the agenda that we have in front of us. Also like to welcome the Department of Business, Economic Development, Tourism, Creative Media Industries.

Georgia Skinner, Chief Officer Thomas Chalk, program specialist. Sorry. As well as Director Tokioka and Deputy Director Dane Wicker.

And then also for the University of Hawaii Academy for Creative Media, we have Chris Lee, Priscilla Cermos, Manette, Ani Benham, Christine Akman, Sharla Hanaoka, and the foundation. I'm not sure who exactly from the foundation is here, but that one of you guys. Okay, you tell us your names when you come.

Okay?

Okay. If I can have debed. Georgia, if you would come up and just do some opening remarks on your division.

Thank you, thank you.

Thank you, Chairs, Members of the committees, and thank you to our partners here in the audience, all who are dedicated to growing our creative sectors, particularly our film industry.

You know, we really believe in a program that's Hawaii first, and that means building our local talent as well as developing more business attraction through tax incentives, building Facilities to attract productions from offshore. The two go hand in hand together.

One of the most important things that I think DBED has now embarked on is a program to grow the industry in a very systemic way.

And some of the discussions that we have had with some of you individually and other Members of the Senate and the House is how are we going to connect from the Department of Education through the University of Hawaii and then to those programs that are more skills and development based.

How are we going to make those happen and have an integrated framework that is mapped out and looks very, very much like no gaps in between. And the productions that are coming from offshore help to Fund those things through their workforce development contributions in the tax credit.

So currently, and we hope to come back in a couple of weeks to share with you a much more drilled down plan, we do have a PowerPoint with some high points that, that we shared with you earlier. And really it's talking about the various ways in which we are currently working in DBED on these integrated plans.

So one of the things that's critical and we have a number of bills this session, the introduction of a film Commission Bill as well as some edits for our film credit. The film industry in General is going through great attrition right now, particularly in the United States.

And there are others here who are probably very articulate about that that can share that as well. But the most important thing for DBED is to look at how do we integrate these things to build a successful pathway for our students, many, many students.

And I think there is a report from the ACM system that showcases the talent that has risen to very high levels in the industry. The two writers, for example, Bryson Chun and Dana Ladue Miller from the ACM programs and uh, Manoa's Aaron Lau. So these are, these are the pinnacle of the success.

When we talk about where are the above the line positions. We have iconic people in those roles now that have come through the system. I don't have the drill down on where they went to high school, but that is something that we have to analyze and look at.

So in the pipeline that we've developed and what we have been working on since the inception of Good Jobs Hawaii and our role in that is to build workforce.

Looking at both P20, the Department of Education, in particular, the career and technical education programs and then sector partnerships, this is a big part of what our Good Jobs Hawaii created. This is industry led.

And I think we've heard from a lot of you that industry needs to help us understand so we can Reverse engineer and build a successful pathway for all of this. Any questions thus far?

Okay, yeah, let me ask. So you have the ICANN here, Academy for Creative Media. Icann. So how does ICANN fit in with.

Have me to explain.

Okay, so the University of Hawaii West Oahu Academy for Creative Media campus is a great facility and putting programs in there, for example, is our hope to be able to have a memorandum of agreement with the University, particularly in West Oahu, so that we can bring these master programs similar to what I can the International Culture and Arts Network has been offering, as well as our Creative Lab Hawaii program.

One of the statements that came up in the Ways and Means briefing for our Department was how do we get producers to be hired by the offshore production companies? And those are things that these type of programs, as well as what happens in the ACM programs and the School of Cinematic Art programs can do.

So they're complementary, Senator.

So is that going on now icann, or is that aspirational?

Currently ICANN has been conducting programs, but not for producing and Creative Lab will run a Producers Guild of America program for training in both features as well as episodic. That will come in about two weeks in a more drilled down fashion for you to consider.

Is, uh, West. I can. At, uh, West?

No, just to use the facility.

Okay, so have they been using the facility?

Not to. zero, they have, yes. I believe, yes.

So when we were at the convention center on Wednesday, and I believe. What's her name? Angie. Angie. She. She said she does the icann. She didn't even know about the aware that the facility could be used. So I'm not sure what that relationship is at this point.

She said they don't have a home and they're looking for a home. Certainly they would want to be part of that. So has there been any talks?

You know, we have talked with both ICANN and other programs about facilities in particular because we see this as a really important part of how we're going to develop our talent. Not only workforce in what I would call more skills and career development, but a facility to hold those kind of programs in.

So using the facilities after hours or on weekends would be a benefit when students are not in the facility.

And I think that's the vision that we have touched base with the vice chancellor, David Mcdonald from, uh, West Oahu about what are those opportunities and how can we mobilize industry people to work within the facility and be able to bring those kinds of programs to not only their students, but the community at large?

On the Leeward Coast.

Well, I guess I'm just confused because it seems as though it's there at Westeron, the way you list it. So it's kind of misleading at this point.

We'll get you a much more drilled down plan in a couple weeks. Meant to look at it as a complement but also an opportunity to utilize the field facility.

Right. So since the facility's been there till now, what specific talks and programs have you guys discussed about utilizing the facility?

I think that they're from the Hawaii International Film Festival to other independent organizations. They have worked. I think that would be something better to ask the University because they really control that. Okay.

Well, it's just that, you know, you put it on here. Right. Leading us to think that that's what's happening there. So.

Yeah. Okay. Aspirational. Go ahead.

Thank you for the question. As Georgia talked about, and even in the slide, this the plan to move that way because we do know that Georgia and Deputy Director have been working with Chris and the group out in West Oahu to utilize the facility for ICANN and others who do great productions right now.

Currently ICAN is and has been doing a lot of their productions and their training at the Sandbox. I personally have been to two of them and you know, the students there, they do a great job on the training.

Jason Momoa has been to a couple of them on a surprise visit which they were all, of course, excited to have. Him and others and other local celebrities are there. So I think the only part that Georgia missed is currently they're at the Sandbox.

Yeah.

And currently they can have access whenever no one is there to the Sandbox because we have.

I'm sorry, we actually complement. Most of our nonprofit sector partners would pay a very nominal staffing fee. But doesn't come to us. It comes to if it's the whole facility to the Hub, which manages the facility for htdc in our creative space, we control that.

And yes, we do provide it to the nonprofit entities that are in the community working on these things and education partners. So.

So do you provide it for the University of Hawaii?

We have. We have used the creative space studio. And they've been charged.

Right.

The students were charged. Maybe I don't have the exact number with me, but I can get that to you. It was really to be able to provide them with a space to shoot their final project. And so we heard from the School of Cinematic Arts that they needed help and we provided the space to them.

It was very nominal and they did everything right. Like 150 to $500 over three days.

My understanding is like $2,000 more. Maybe they can answer that question. Yeah, maybe they can. That's what the fees were. Yeah. So I don't know if that's nominal to you.

Yeah, well, they, they were faced with some other fees that were a lot higher and we helped them in the interim, of course, and they did everything right. Certificate, certificate of insurance and all the things they needed. But I'll double check and get back to you on the exact number.

If it is 2000, then that's the number number.

The troubling thing that we've learned was that when we asked the question as to how many of students in the programs with the degrees actually work on the productions or get higher, and we were told there's not that many, and those that do, they quit because they don't.

They feel that they should start at a higher end after one start at the bottom. Then we asked the question about interns. They said, zero yeah, we have like several interns. Nine interns. I said, how many from uh? And they put an answer. I said how many from uh. And they finally said, I know it was three.

Yeah, but they couldn't identify.

Yeah, they couldn't identify.

Yeah, I know Manoa has. Excuse me, sorry to interrupt. I know Manoa has had a very close relationship with NCIS Hawaii. And so from shadowing directors to rotating through all the positions on a crew, their, their current student population was engaged in internships with that production.

You could identify it as being students from University or had graduated from University. Zero, yeah. So, okay.

Yeah, well, let's, let's look at our data and get you that.

Yeah, so that's what we're focusing on. You know, we're providing this workforce development pipeline and it's not evidence in the actual working. It sounds good when you guys talk about it, but when you, when we ask the questions directly of the producers and the people that were there, they kind of try to skirt around it.

When we actually pin them down, then they admit that, yeah, it's not coming.

Out of the universe that would be helpful.

Interesting to see exactly where. And I know there are BIMS people and there have been a lot of local people who have started from the bottom up, not necessarily have gone through the program, not necessarily degree and they've worked their way up. Correct. And they're up there, which is excellent. Yeah.

But again, we need to be able to see what is the advantage to having a degree, having a four year degree in this area.

Yes, Senator, thank You. So over the past few days, and actually, you know, ever since I got to d bed, it was made clear of the concerns that the Senate and the House had with the film office.

So between myself and Deputy Director Wicker, we spent a lot of time in the film office, meeting with Georgia, Thomas and David and everyone in the film office because it was a big focus on, you know, trying to coordinate and connect all of the things that were asked by us through legislation and through meetings at the Legislature.

So we are addressing all of that. And you'll see when we get to the tax credit, the workforce development tax credit.

We looked at it for an hour the other day and the discussion was we need to have more a clearer understanding of how that tax credit is given to the schools and tracking the schools after the money is given to them. So we are putting together a direct program to track that.

And that will answer some of the things that you. And we have the same concerns because the producers, they choose where the money goes and they don't even, you know, some of them don't even know the difference between one school from the other.

So let me just add. You have a question before we go into what he's talking about.

I think, you know, the distribution of some of the funds that have been generated through the use of the tax credits has long been something that a lot of critics have talked about.

And I guess given that we have such a strong K12 pipeline already in existence, I guess my question to DBAD is, has the Department ever considered funding groups like Schutz Summit directly, Kevin Matsunaga and many of the alumni from the PBS, you know, HIKI N series that's been on for 10 years, you know, Sea Riders and Olelo Productions have done amazing work over the last 20 years.

So perhaps if, you know, the Department were to step in and say, how about if we Fund these, you know, kind of K through 12 programs, then it removes a lot of the work that DBED would have to do to have to, you know, track for individual schools.

You know, that you're dealing with a, you know, attested and well known set of good outcomes.

Senator, five of us met over the last two days to talk specifically about that and what you just said, we agree 100% that we need to change that format. It shouldn't be the producers picking schools because they're going to pick schools.

Some of them don't really even have a program and, you know, you know, chiefess and YNIC writers, top of the class when it comes to that. So I think Chief has only had one. One of the grants that went to that.

We're going to go into this question, but let me just say folks should have been talking about this a while ago. I brought it up to you two days ago. And then causes this stuff to occur. Really up on all of this. And the University wasn't realizing that some of these monies were going to the foundation. So.

So that's another question why we asked the foundation to be here, because that's got to get cleared up.

So first. Thank you guys. Thank you, Committee. You know, I know that we've been talking about this. We have a lot of talk about the film industry and we find all these missing pieces. You know, it's frustrating because now it's like, okay, never know this existed. I don't know that existed. But I want to get back to.

I can. I think the question says I can't ever use the, uh, west facility.

No, to my knowledge, no. But I. I don't control the facility. Yeah, because. Because I heard you say yes earlier and I. I was like. I understood from them that they were trying to use it. They might have done a program, but it might have been tied to a Hawaii International Film Festival event. So it's not independent.

All of the work that we've been. That they've been doing on acting has been at the same sandbox in. In town. So the reason that I said yes is because that connects to the HIF program that was run. It was tied into I can't and HIF a couple years ago. And you know, Becky's here today.

She could maybe clarify that independent of that or running any screenwriting programs or anything out at the facility. As far as I know, no. But I will ask Angie and get back to you guys.

We asked her on Wednesday.

No. Okay.

Thank you, Senator F.

You know, the. Trouble that I have is that we. We started digging into this and I know you guys been even trying to work. The best they can question that I have is that you're telling my colleagues over here about interns. So let me share with you what is an intern. We'll get my coffee.

They're not working side by side with a producer helping produce it. Let me finish understood what you're doing today. And I noticed you gotta stop when my colleagues is talking. You're talking too. You don't need quick to defend yourself. This is an observation.

Since the time was at the studio with you when you was telling all of these great things that was happening. And then we brought you guys before Us, because it wasn't happening.

So I'm just letting you know, people, people that I know that would intern, that want to get into the top areas that we're talking about, never get to really shadow the NCI producers and higher ups. Even when they go school and they come from the school, creative writing or writing whatever, they don't have to.

That's the reason why these guys go to the continent and when they go to the continent, they don't come back. We don't create the opportunities for them. So when you guys talk about the tax credits and if anybody want to use our tax credits, I said it's hard.

Yeah, you tell them if they want to use the credit, this is what you guys have to do. Because again, that's the reason why we have this issue. Because again, we're not taking care of our own. We keep talking about how great it is.

So again, going forward, when they ask you these things would be nice to have the exactly of what these guys do so you can talk about that.

So now I, you know, another thing is that the film Commission that we were supposed to have going with all the counties with Valea and everybody like that, how far on are you guys. How far you guys are in. In organizing? Because I heard some of them left. Right. So how is.

How close are you guys are in completing our film Commission or film organization? So everybody's on one page. Because we're in Hilo, they couldn't film on agriculture and certain areas because Oahu had a different way of filming.

So how do we get everybody together on the same page so it doesn't have any overlay or overlapping when it comes to filming?

Right. So through a memorandum of agreement which we are only waiting for the County of Maui to sign. And apparently County of Maui has to go through council approval before mayor signs or the other way around. But that is what we're waiting for. In absence of that, we have gotten together as a group. We work together closely.

But the permitting, the online portal or none of those things, since we did not get funding for them, we haven't been able to actualize them yet. However, there is a Bill in moving through the Senate and through the House this year to establish more formally that Commission utilize the framework we have.

And I think that is the solution that the lawmakers and the community have been asking for.

So when you guys gonna do the pipeline and having these kids intern coming from the college straight into that one, especially what Senator De La Cruz said for having these things, who's monitoring that who's buying the schools, the people that you send them to, the producers or internship that you guys are talking about.

Who actually says, okay, Georgia, you intern with this producer. This is the things that I did today. And that's what you give back to either your teacher or the person you're interning for. Because that's not. That wasn't happening. And maybe it is not, but it wasn't happening then.

And that's why we're concerned, because we have some great kids that we're losing, not because of only housing. We're losing for better opportunities for jobs in the continent, especially when we have, you know, like in Georgia, the studios and stuff like that, giving opportunities. And I don't know why we don't.

And that's something that I'm asking you guys to pretty make tight on because we don't want to lose any more kids. We get great kids that is working in high school and college to be able to have a good chance of working with the producers and the upper level guys, above the line guys.

I think it requires Senator Favela, the very curated approach. Currently we don't have staff depth to do that. So we do meet with the producers and mostly our tax credit unit of David, Kaylee Holikai and Brent Onbe are the leads for dealing with any producers coming in for the tax credit.

So the way to actualize it is to as they come through, they at that point have to meet with our workforce development manager and through the workforce development manager, which is currently Thomas Chalk. This is all new.

It isn't in place yet, but this is what we want to deliver and that is curate from the beginning, require it before they even start their starter principal photography letter to us. They have to commit to whether it's interns, exactly what Department they have to provide a report afterwards.

And then they will have to also clarify in terms of their investment where it's going.

We feel that, as Director mentioned, we had two really great discussions about this, that we think there's a better way to be managing the workforce development 0.1% and possibly put it into the special Fund and have us be more curatorial on it so that we can deliver exactly what you're asking for. And it's not been ideal.

I agree 100%.

I think I want to bring Thomas up because I think Thomas can probably answer some of the questions. If you can just highlight your division for us, Thomas, because I know you'll probably be able to answer some of the questions that we're having to Address Aloha.

So I can speak to, I think, Senator Fevella's concern about that tracking system or the, the. How you called it, the. A more curatorial, curatorial approach to it.

So with Good Jobs Hawaii, we set up the sector partnership and that role that Senator Favelo is talking about currently is subcontracted to Maui Economic Development Board because of their track record, track record of, of doing the same kind of work in STEM internships.

The Good Jobs Hawaii folks worked with Maui Economic Development Board and they are currently the ones that are curating the internships. So the way the system works right now is through Good Jobs Hawaii. This is just an anecdotal example. Through Good Jobs Hawaii, we had a production accounting certificate class that we ran.

Good Jobs Hawaii paid for those classes. Participants who are Hawaii residents didn't have to pay for that. They then, because they register in the University of Hawaii system, that's where the tracking starts. And so the Good Jobs Hawaii system tracks them through the registration. They sign up for the class and the system.

And then Good Jobs Hawaii also has navigators associated with each of the community colleges. And those navigators work with those students who are going through the trainings. And then at the end of the training, when they complete the training, they then are handed off to Maui Economic Development Board. Katie Talladay over there.

And Katie is the one who, she has a database of local businesses. She has a database of students who complete it. And she's the one that starts doing them. She works on the matching there. She orients the businesses.

She makes sure that the businesses aren't like Senator Favela said, just getting coffee and making copies, but that there's actually a plan, there's mentorship going to be happening through the internship opportunity. And again, anecdotally, the eight interns for the current or the most recent production Wrecking Crew came directly through this process where eight of them.

There was a cohort, I want to say there was, I think 17. I can get the number for you. But there were 17 students that took the production accounting class and eight of them were able to land internships on the Wrecking Crew production with the help of Angie Lapret. So that's the system we currently have in place.

But as Georgia said, that's working with Maui Economic Development Board. That is not something that CID really has the capacity or currently in place right now to track all that.

That hasn't been duplicated on Oahu through the same mechanism of the Good Job program. In other words, you don't have any Internship like how you guys have set up with MADB in Maui.

Zero, so MEDB is doing it for the whole state.

The whole state, yeah.

Yeah. So, so any, any of the participants in any of the good jobs trainings they can come from, from anywhere in the State of Hawaii.

And apparently from what Energy said that and what they told us, that there are very few coming from University, I guess they come from. Yeah, right. I mean, and so Andrew said that they have been training a lot of these people on their own. Yeah. To give them the basics on how to get a job. Yeah.

In the industry. Well.

And they don't charge. I mean I think the vision of good jobs was to, to kind of get. It was get as quickly as possible from training to job.

That's good.

And when, when you're working with someone in the, in the, who's in the already in the educational pipeline, it's not as quick. Right. Like there, it's a four year degree. Whereas you know, the eda, the federal funds are like saying okay, we pay up to you know, a year of training.

You gotta better get a job within six months. And that job better be like a.

Full time job students graduating on a rotating basis more than just nine or 10. Right. I mean so there is a pipeline already. So looking for jobs, aren't they?

Right, they're looking for jobs. And yeah, it's a nuanced, I guess situation because a lot of the, like what you had discussed earlier, Senator Kim, you talked about a lot of people start as a production assistant and they work their way up. And right now that's probably the model that we're leaning into with good jobs Hawaii.

But yeah, we still, I would say we still have to kind of figure out how to, how to lock in the University of Hawaii and even the two year programs like at Leeward Community College and those kinds of programs to see how we can support this approach with the, with the local colleges.

Do you have or do you get any idea of locking them in together? Because it's like all over. Like okay, htc, you dance and I like holy smokes. Like, you know, how do you like, do you have an idea of like bringing them all together so that way, you know those that like Dumele, you like good drama.

Because I was, I was unaware that me DB over saw the state side of it.

And then when we visited on production sites and stuff, I'm like, wow, you know when this person straight off the boat from Molokai and I'm like, yeah, like Anthony, how you got There, you know, then you have the union component of it, which you know.

So like what would be your ideal simplifying in layman's terms, where we don't have all these moving parts that are not moving together but in different directions.

Wow, that's a, that's a really great question. I keep looking at, over glancing back at Director Tokyo because that's. I know, but it's like that's the ask, right? It's not just for the creative industries, but for all industries. Like how much workforce development is happening across the State of Hawaii.

Who's doing what, what, where, the where our strengths, where are Pukas? How can we start like just knowing, you know, and to a certain degree, over the last almost two years, I've become kind of a nexus of information around some of these things and I still don't feel like I know all of the things.

Like I found out recently about Hisako Lab on Maui. The, you know, this. A film training program that's for younger kids. And we want, we want all of this in. But you know, it's, it's. There's no formal kind of. I don't know, I kind of feel.

Like we should build a digitized system for you guys instead of like Dotrax and all these other guys. Because you know, at the end of the road, I mean you guys have the highest paying jobs in the industry. People that some just straight off the street, they own their house, right? They're helping the kids buy their house.

So like.

Almost, I mean, and it's, I wanted to say formalize it, but it's. I don't know that you can formalize it because like you said, there's, there's so many paths, right? You have people who just decide, I want to be a PA. I've been an accountant for 20 years, okay?

I want to, I want to jump in and be, be in the film industry. And you can, right? You, you just work your way up. But to say that there's like, you know, we look at the healthcare industry, right, and we see like they have a cna, lpn, rn, nurse practitioner pathway.

And it's very clear, very, very easily. Easy to, to map that out. Just looking at film and video production, I mean you can kind of map it out, but it. Man, I wish I had Tui's presentation shows like just from being a Member of iatse and then poof.

It's just like all these different pathways to be in the industry. So it's, I'm not trying to make an Excuse, but I'm just trying to express that what you're asking for. Yes, we definitely could use something like.

That, but also use the brains to operation. Yeah, but you know, we have that conversation. Yeah. Anybody questions?

I understand there's a lot of, you know, variables, what you just said. Right. But why don't you guys just start small and what the Senator is saying and grab the top ones that you know that is most needed and wanted here and start that.

Yeah.

Before you can go to 800, maybe you start with five. Yeah. And then when you can't get that one, then you break out to more and more but centralize the efforts on the ones that the Senator decoy just said in the high paying capacity jobs. Moving forward, you guys not going to be able to cover everything.

And we know it's really big, but grab a few that, you know that you can, you know, really produce and make the kids be able to afford living here, staying here, taking care of their family and having one great career.

You know, I know what Senator, Senator Decoyed is saying. She wants to capture everything, but we just use one smaller net and then we do that first and then we go forward.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, we gotta start something because if we're gonna keep saying it's too broad, too broad, we're not going to be able to build up the program and then it would never be built out and we'll never have a conversation that Senator Craig is saying right now.

If I'm. If I may, I feel like there is some work along the lines of what you're asking for. I would cite Stacey Higgins with P20 and the work that she's doing in mapping out these pathways. I believe she's still working on the CTE pathway for, you know, for film and media production. So it's the three pathways.

Right. It's fashion, it's digital design and it's film and video production. And she's working on mapping those out. So that could be like where we start. I think that's a great place to start. She's done a ton of work already.

And because P20 includes our DOE schools and then also the University of Hawaii system, be a great place to start and seeing kind of where those, those connection points can be.

And great tracking.

Yeah, and the tracking definitely, I agree with that as well. We definitely need to track better through the, through the process.

And I think the hub idea and connecting these disparate things. I know we've talked about it a little bit, Senator, and it's important because we can have that narrow lens and then connect those three. That's why in the Department we have this focus on the Leeward Coast and Leeward Coast development in these pathways.

So for example, the most narrow view would be other than production assistant, what else is a non union and a union job and the producing above the line. Just start with those three, map it out, come back and show you what that looks like.

Last question for toms. So do we have any kind of programs for set building, stuff like that?

Ooh. We had talked about early on in Gudjobs, Hawaii, we had had conversations with Ayaksi and Tui about doing. Using good jobs funds to try to do something. Whether I can't remember, I'll have to look at my notes.

But I believe we were looking at maybe partnering with CNHA because they have skilled trades program and their training and then trying to. Trying to kind of blend those two. Right. Because set, set construction falls under iatsi. Similar skills, the safety, the OSHA training and all those kind of things are all kind of the same.

It's just the application is going to be different. Right. You don't have to put drywall on a set. You just. Right.

But we don't have any kind of training.

We don't not currently.

There may be set building for within the University system which we could ask them about for live theater. But a lot of those skills from live theater translate into film production as well. That's why we did the WCC program with the theater out there for combat, specifically for Chief of War Season 2.

So we would have more people that could be hired from Hawaii.

I could look into those for you if you'd like to.

How so what, what interactions you guys give with the studios? We talk about internships and it seems to be very challenging with the studios to do internships. You guys have. What's the communication going on?

Well, I think it starts with whoever they call first and also the outreach and I think again more proactive in that area. We have been successful I think in the last several years in placing more other than just here's a check to either a DOE school or a University program.

Because the internships can be combined with the cash contribution and again that front end curation which really relies a little bit more on, you know, David Keeley Holikai and his team to be able to do that on the front.

And I will get involved from time to time, but I think that it's really important that we have a person designated to do that. And currently we Don't. We've got some great DLIR interns but we need someone dedicated to that workforce development, outreach and development with the industry to hold them accountable as well.

So I had the privilege of jumping on one of the sits in Big Island Chief of War. Right. And I was like amazed. Local producer. I think maybe 8590% all local hires. Like how do you interact? Interact that with some that just like boom there.

Engage with the culture aspect of what they were doing in the filming of it. To have that producer Director work directly in the studio with internship.

Yeah. It starts again at the inception of when they're even thinking about the project. Which was the advantage I think with chief of War initially is that it was very early on even in the decision making process to be able to identify those that talent. There are different types of production. That's a very heavily budgeted series.

You have a regular broadcast series series could mirror that. And a lot of interns that have come through programs from Hawaii. Some from schools perhaps, I don't know. But from what we encourage is look at your University schools first. I mean Lost went to Kamehameha schools as well as the University to train people.

And a lot of those people today are thriving crew Members, Members of the IATSC and teamsters in locations working on productions. The nexus sometimes of what school they went to or what program they went to may not be as obvious.

But the minute we can have some kind of not only a curated program but that online system that I think you're. That all of us are hoping to build, I think that comes along with building a better framework like a film Commission and the Commission responsibilities to oversee those things.

Commission help?

No. Should we move on to. Okay, so can we go back to the funding and the monies that is from the tax credit? Yes. For the work development and how we are accounting for it and.

So Members, we passed out copies of what Deeped sent to me regarding two years worth of tax credit workforce contributions from the producers. Correct.

Senator, did you want me to explain the. How we calculate the 0.1% for the workforce development and the special Fund that.

We talked about generally? Can you explain to the Members what that is?

Just really quick. So within the production tax credit program, we charge the filers of the productions two different fees. So the first one is for workforce development. So any the total spend that they spend for that filing year, we charge 0.1% of that.

And with that money the filers will set, the productions will send that to the schools of their choice, which we discussed before. Right. And then we have another fee which is a special Fund. We charge 0.2% of their tax credit claim.

So this is after they calculate for whatever their island they're on, they multiply that by that 22 or 27%, whatever that number is we charge them. So for example, for this pass for 2023, it was about 185,000 for the workforce development and about 68,000 for the CID Fund. So total altogether just about 200,000.

So that's pretty much what it is for the calculation. And then to answer your question, you want the breakout of the workforce development dispersed by the schools.

I did give the Members all copies of it. And so I guess the question is how is this accounted for? And in the case where it says like uh, foundation, how, how is the money? So how do you guys keep, how do you guys keep track on who's getting what and if they're getting it?

So on the, on our Hawaii production report, the filers are required to submit the recipient name, the program name, the amount that being paid to them, copies of checks, everything, especially the namehood recipient. You made a good point about us having to follow up with them after the fact.

We've created, I guess a solution for that I want to discuss with you. But currently, as it stands, once you submit the application in and they give us the contact information, we track that. But following up, we haven't done this.

I've been working with Thomas on that for the past three months, but it's a lot of follow up in between and working with the Director and everyone, I believe there's a better option for that. So sorry I don't have a page number for you guys, but on the end of the worksheet I have a graph.

It's like a bubble graph. You can pull that out. It's past. Since I've Already kind of explained the special fun. It's past that on the end or it's his merger proposal. Sorry. It'S like the second to the last page looks like this.

So while you're looking for that page, Senators, I would also say to follow what we said before is that we think and we'll run it through the Legislature, but we think that a better way to distribute that and we to make sure that there's no HRS path that we're not following is to have them apply for a grant and the schools that apply based on what they've done before.

So we know that we're using that money to further educate and give opportunities for the schools that do really, really well in film and media.

Because I spent the day calling some of these entities and I called Kaiser High School because they had a high amount and according to this, it says that Kaiser High school got from NCIS $21,114. And Kaiser did in fact said yes, they got a check what it was for $21,140. So $35 difference.

But in the case of the $19,056 from MEA Red One, they said they only got $5,000 and they checked with our county. They checked everything. They only got 5,000.

I can submit the backup documentation to you.

So mea red one, but again it's. You know, what they're saying they got or didn't get is not computing. Then I called, we called HCC on the MELI program And they got two checks according to This2023. They said they don't think have any record of receiving anything.

So I don't know where it went, where that money went or do you guys know where that money went, who the check was made out to?

Or we can follow up with, I can follow up with you on that. I have the backup documentations in my files. So I can get that to you. Yes. Okay.

So Senator, maybe if you can give us the specific, I shouldn't be the.

One calling these people. And we're going to have to check.

If we can quickly get the name, then we can quickly give you the answer. Unless we go through all of them to make sure what we got.

But you should go through all of them, right, to make sure if you.

Want the fast answer. But we will, we will get you the information.

I want a good system that assures us that the monies are going where it's supposed to go and they're getting credit for it because if they don't give the 0.1%. They don't get the.

They don't qualify.

They don't qualify. Right. For the tax credit. So that again is, you know, there's all kinds of ramifications on this and somebody should be following up.

Yes. From the point of the application, they need to submit the workforce development that check to the schools before the 90 days of the new year. So for this year they need to submit it by March 31st. If they don't submit that check to the school by then, they're disqualified.

And so they send us the backup documentation and confirmation showing that they did pay. We make sure to double check what their total spend to make sure that calculates correctly.

But to your point, I agree we do need to follow up with the schools more and I believe which everyone has been providing an alternative option for us to actually treat it as a grant instead to where we'll collect it and then we'll disperse the funds to the schools that deserve it based on the application system.

A point system. That sounds much fairer. Yes, I agree.

Than this. So how long has this system been in going on since 2008.

2006.

2006. So for 2006 nobody's following up, nobody's looking at a better way of doing it system.

And then they cleaned it up. They improved upon it. When was that audit? That was 2013.

Yeah, but it doesn't seem like it's cleaned up now. So that's even more troubling that there's an audit and then it still have bugs in it or it's not working the way we had hoped it would be working. Right.

Well, we'll try to get the answers on the discrepancy in the amounts.

Okay, well, can I get the uh, foundation to come up? And there seems to be a discrepancy with what the monies are either going to uh foundation or whether it's going to actual productions or schools or so in according to this, in 2023 it says NCSI gave $10,812 to UH Foundation.

The that I guess eventually went to ACM Manoa. It has Dash, ACM Manoa and then Moana gave $1,603 says uh Foundation Dash Academy for Creative Media. And again Kikila gave $1,000 uh Foundation Academy for Creative Media. So how does that work? And then it's also in 2022 as well monies went to. It says uh foundation.

Yes, and we have a. Thank you Senator. We have a page. Can you please state your name? Zero, I'm So sorry. So I'm Tim Dolan. I head up leadership of the uh, foundation. And I'm joined by my colleague John Hahn, who's the cfo, COO of uh, foundation. Good afternoon. So you.

Yes, we have the same records that you just cited. This is a compilation of what the production companies are reporting to the state via the workforce contribution form. And the film and production companies, as we can see, donate to various community programs that align with their interest.

And these are relatively small donations going into the SCA Workforce Development Fund. And there are three of them that are cited on this workforce contribution form. And so those funds are specifically for the workforce that we just cited. And we're happy to try to answer any questions that you might have on that.

Yeah, the question is, did you get the funds?

Yes, we did.

And you had. You got it in form of a check, and then you actually gave the full amount to who?

Then it gets distributed to this SCA Workforce Contribution Fund that has to be dispersed. Who heads that up?

I'm not sure who has the program. I'll have to get back to you on that. But the.

Do you know who heads that up? Come up. Pull up a chair. Yeah, you gave me this list, but. And I gave it to all the Members.

So.

So when the money comes to the foundation, do you folks take a fee?

It's a 5% fee. Correct.

Okay, so the monies that is shown here is that after the 5% or before?

It's before.

So they don't get the full amount?

Yeah, the fee is pretty much every University has the same process. Sometimes A fee is 8%, 7%, 6%. Ours is 5%, which is on the lower side, but yes.

So when it says, uh, hcc, uh, Maui, does it go straight to UHCC or does it go to you folks, to the foundation first?

Well, if it's a. If it's a donation from a company, it goes to us and then it gets placed into a Fund. And then the. The. The person on the Fund who's generally the. A dean or a Director has the ability to pull out those funds for the specific, specific reasons that are aligned on that Fund.

Okay, so in the case of. It says here, Kona Big Wave gave, uh, HCC Melee program $1,322. Did it go to you first and then it went to the disbursement or.

Can I explain a little bit? UHCC said they never got the funding.

Just feature name, just for the record.

I'm Vasili Sierra. I'm the Vice President for Research and innovation. Thank you, Senator for actually letting me know that we were getting money into foundation.

Yeah, because you said you didn't know you were getting and you said you checked with foundation and they didn't get any money, which was so confusing.

Because I was confused. Yes. So thank you for that. It took me a couple days, but I figured it out.

I unconfused you.

You always do. So. So usually the way now I understand this works is these companies. This is not.

You know what the problem is that you're so used to getting millions of dollars that when it comes down to only thousands, you don't.

So these companies actually write a check to the foundation from their account. I understand that in order for them to qualify for the tax credit credit, they have to provide these monies to the University or high schools or any type community based workforce development activity.

So I pulled all the acm, and sca, uh, foundation accounts that we have within the University. I gave you a copy. I clearly see the SCA workforce development, uh, foundation account. Dr. Christine Ackem is the principal for this account there also. So I take it that some of that money is deposited on that account.

I see also some accounts on Kapiolani.

Do you see hcc?

I don't see hcc. It may be because I only had asked for or anything that has ACM and sca. There are only three ways that you can give the University money if you're not a state agency. One is through the Office of Research Services, that is any extramural funds, so to do certain work.

The second one is through the foundation and philanthropy. And the third one is through revolving funds. I don't think the Honolulu Community College revolving Fund, but I will check what I think it may be a foundation account that doesn't have ACM on it or ACA, but I will check those accounts.

I thought they all had ACM except for Manoa, because Manoa changed their name.

How they name the account, it is up to them. So it is up to the campus. So there may be an account in the foundation. But when I had asked for that information from the foundation, I had asked them for anything that has ACM and SC in the title.

So I will follow up with that because as I said, there are three ways you can only give us money except the state. The state can give us money differently through internal agreements in other ways.

So where did that money go? It went to foundation.

Went to foundation. And then whomever it is.

So it says HCC Melee Program. Specifically it went to Foundation.

I Don't have an answer for that. I didn't find an account in a foundation with ACM and SCA as acronyms that I searched for. I can search for Honolulu Community College, Melloc program and maybe they have an account like that. Otherwise you can't give us money.

Or it is in my office as an extramural award, which would be very tedious for $1,000 to actually give us to put together.

So all of this money. Leeward CCTV Pro got $3,618 from Rescue Hawaii Surf Season 1. So it didn't go to them. Baldwin got $68,000. Well, that was Baldwin High School. Sorry.

I don't see what you're reading. I'm reading it from your 2023, the Leeward CCTV production. Again, I don't know if there is an account with that name. I can check with the foundation and also the University.

Okay. And in 2022 there's a number of uh, Academy program. Uh, Academy, uh, Hilo, uh, foundation. Sometimes it says uh foundation and other times it just says the name of the campus.

Yeah. And. And again, I don't know the specifics one. Maybe it is like an extramural award. You know, they write a small statement of work and the money is deposited to the University proper as opposed to uh, foundation. So I don't know which method they used in order to take in this money.

Okay. So it's very troubling that we don't have a good accounting and the program is telling me they never got monies even though it's small amounts.

You're absolutely correct. I was not aware of this issue. I think we all needed with the University and Diba to work together to figure that out because as I said, I had no idea that we had all these accounts. So we need to fix this.

Can. Can you give us a more accurate account of this? Yes, we can. Apparently I guess the numbers are off. Like I want to know like what if you guys taking the 5% off, what is the actuals that are going to these schools?

Because I think it would be better than having Debed ask for it since this is yoga is Kuleana, right? Yeah. Yeah. And.

And we can absolutely chair.

That would be super helpful.

Absolutely. I'll take that as an action item because I want to find out.

So get done. Yeah, but there's others on here. So. So because you aw. You weren't aware of this because I, I was kind of like just more creative in issues type. So what does the buck stop you who Runs this entire program. Yes. And then, you know, overseeing that.

And you, I was trying to look at your org chart because I, you know, on your lineup of the instructor, the vice chancellor who falls right in the, who handles this.

So foundation accounts usually are handled by the faculty Member or the individual that, that the donation is made of. The person that also signs the purpose of that foundation account is the supervisor of that individual. But the handling of the account, the day to day operations is by the individual that you see on that piece of paper.

On this one, the long one also, she is. What is her name? Christine. Christine.

So there are several people. Dr. Ackam is on it. Dr. Benham is on it. Mr. Chris Lee is on it. So they do the day to day management of the account. When the account is set up is also signed, as we say, we open the account signed by the supervisor of that individual.

So I would say for Dr. Ackam would be the dean of the College of Arts, Languages and Letters.

Is it safe to say that they are also going after and soliciting a lot of these donations on their own and not necessarily coming all through acm.

There are, you know, the one we're talking right now, this is a donation that these companies make because they have to make it. Because you are telling them in order to qualify for this, you have to give money there.

Individuals may have relationships with these production companies and they say, hey, if you give me X amount of money, then you, you just, just satisfy the requirement of the statute.

No, I understand that, but like in this case where you're showing who's, who's in charge, how do I know which ones that they actually went after on their own versus coming out of the foundation. You see what I'm saying? Yes. Or it's been dispersed by ac.

I mean, right, because all of this stuff has to go through the foundation. So it'd be interesting to see what that fees are from the foundation. At the end of the day, we.

Can ask the foundation.

Yeah, I mean, we're happy to come up with the fee structure. Obviously the 5% on the total, which was $19,000.

No, but I'm looking at this, which is a lot more money.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're happy to provide that in full.

Yes. And some of them probably is because they have to donate and maybe some of those are because individuals, they go out and solicit this type of philanthropy. So I don't know which one is which.

And how do you determine if it goes to the account admin versus you have Two. Two columns. One is account admin name and the other one is account admin name. Well, you have two. Which is.

The first one is the person that.

So for each of the funds that we set up that's earmarked for specific purpose of supporting various different programs, we have multiple pull account administrators and people who manage the expenses or the funds available in those accounts.

So the two columns, the first column is the person actually getting the funds, and the second column is the one who makes the decision or how.

They both have authority to make decisions on the expenditures of the funds that are available. And there can be more than two, but I think this report just happens to pull the first two.

So does it matter if you're in column A or column B?

It does not.

Because it seems like you have some names. They're just reversed. Yeah, and it's the same people, but they're just in reverse positions.

So it really depends on what drives. This is our policy. Certain expenditures require more than one approver.

So in the case of this Takayama Creative Media Endowment, all of the money from that. zero, I guess maybe it should be how much is actually in the endowment? The corpus that you cannot. You're not. You're not supposed to spend down on.

I would have to get back to you, and I don't have the information with me. These are except expendable accounts, meaning that these are funds that are available for the program to spend, and only that balance is reflected on this report. So.

So some of this money that you say, Takayama Creative Media Endowment, that money is the spendable amount that came out of the. Out of the corpus.

Correct.

Is that each year or is it once?

That happens quarterly, we make a quarterly distribution to the expendable order cap.

And then this figure here, ncash available. This is as of today?

This is as of quarter? Yes, as of today.

And each quarter, I guess I'm trying to figure out how much they're actual getting and if it's quarterly. So like in the case of the Takayama Creative Media Endowment, $195,000 for academic support to, uh, West Oahu. So that amount is per quarter or this is what they got in the last quarter.

And is that quarterly or that yearly or.

The. Cash available simply shows the funds that are available for use. And as far as the accumulation of how the funds build up to that amount, I'll have to investigate that to see how that happens.

Okay, so is that money available to West Oahu as of today? If they wanted to go out and Spend $100,000 of that for whatever reason reason. Do they have it or you got to go to you to get it?

No, it's, it's. We hold the funds but it is available for the programs to use.

So you're holding all these funds?

Yes.

Because if you add up the amount going to West Oahu, that's quite a bit which is good. But I guess I'm trying to. When I guess in west come up, we'll ask them what their whole budget is and you know. But okay. If you have any other.

No. Why is curious like if you. I just looking at one account that holding 195000 for uh, West Oahu and then it. It comes in as academic support. I kind of trying to piece together what is the outreach in the industry and then how does that work towards the industry itself and workforce and.

And how that applies it. But maybe can we have them come up because this. Yeah, but this is under.

This is an endowment from dominant.

Yeah, they kind of said how it should be used.

I have that. Get this. So so basically you guys go through all of the. The funds that come in as well and you guys cross reference out beginning and end. Because you know when you're looking at the in cash available, I'm like what is the beginning cash that went in and then from what. What year?

Good.

Because so if, if I go to central clients say hey, support my program. I need a meal. He's a genuine tax break. He drops me a meal. Do you guys track it by years of how much came in? I try to understand your makeup of you have all these different people that are doing this.

You need on dual signature. Right. And they can do both. I mean that's several positions that are cross referencing and signing off. So I see the end cash. But I know what was the beginning cash.

So can you guys generate that for us?

Yeah.

So if you. Yes, we can. We can generate that report for you. But if you were one of these production companies and let's say you wrote a check for $20,000 that particular year, you would get a receipt from uh foundation that acknowledges that $20,000 that would be debited from you know, the tax credit rules, whatever taken out.

That's right. So can you give me a breakout of the tax credit taken out and then what you guys take out at the foundation level, Was it a 55%?

Yeah, we take 5% at the time.

We'd be happy to do that.

Yeah. But in the sense of the Takayama one that has they did this back in 2017. Yeah, November 2015. 2015. And I guess they gave the money over a two year period from. From what I understand. And I guess we want to know what was generated over the years because apparently it's every year. Right.

Or every quarter that they get a thing. And then we want to know from the receiving end where what that funding is being used for.

Yeah, I can definitely.

And then is there any monies going to ACM system from the Foundation? Because I don't see that on here. Is this everybody?

Everybody.

I only see West Oahu, Maui. zero, I see your system right here. There are two a call 47,000 and 27,000.

Can we ask the foundation? Yeah. Okay. For the count and the admin name. What it seems you are reflecting is current operations, but your list contains foundation allocations over a period of 1996 to the present.

So is it a fair question to say whoever's names appear in that account admin name is who is currently responsible for that particular departmental area? So in a way, I think, you know, ACM system has been in existence since 2004, but a lot of the allocations, when we look at it now, it's being listed under West.

Is that. That's correct? Yes. Okay, thank you. Sorry, say that again. They're listing according to whoever is in charge of that. Right. And so these are a lot of historical, you know, grants that have occurred over the last 20 years.

So in. And when the Takayamas put their thing in, they really didn't have the ACM building or anything at that point.

All right, 2014 was probably when it was under construction. And so whatever their purposes were, I'm.

Sure no, it didn't go into construction until 2019. Yeah. I think that would be. Yeah, I don't think the facility got constructed.

Thank you for the opportunity today. I'm really glad to see everybody. I've been coming here for over 20 years, as many of you know, and I know that you've been doing a lot of homework in preparation for this hearing.

So I thought I would take the liberty of putting other briefing books for you all because it has been 20 years and there's a lot of things that people know, people don't know or maybe they've heard rumors and stuff like that.

As far as Michelle's not here today.

Right.

Okay, can we just get the questions answered? Trust me, I don't believe the Members are going to read all of this, to be honest with you. Well, I know you do your homework.

Well, I do But I know you've been making some calls and everything, so the Takayamas have been extraordinary. So just for a record, please just. Hi, my name is Chris Lee.

I'm the founder and Director of the ACM System System, which was approved by the Board of Regents in January of 2004 and funded initially and through the years by this Legislature.

How much have we funded through the years? What is in the base budget?

What is in the base budget? Actually, if you look in this book that I gave you and you go to the section on where does ACM System funding come from. It's number four, I believe. Yes. Sorry, I don't have the tags. No, it's blue. There are four acts by the Legislature and then other sources.

So you can see over the years the amount of money this Legislature has provided on behalf of the ACM system.

So the reoccurring is the renews annually notation, the 776,400,000 and the 2 million.

So, uh, MNOA since 2000. Well, I should say 2004, actually. And there's a copy of the actual Bill here from May 102004 provided 10 positions and at that time, $767,000 in permanent funding with COLA and everything else. That obviously has grown to probably a little over $1.0 million a year in funding.

This is for what exclusively goes to.

The MANOA program, which is now known as SCA.

Okay.

Then there was Act 11, which if those of you who were around in 2007, this was the thing, the plan we all put together on behalf of the University to have Pbs. This is the way it worked.

PBS sold their Weinberg land next to the Hard Rock, reinvested in the building to renovate it, because it was literally bursting into flame at the time on its own. And then ACM would have forgotten 40% control, 40% of the renovated building. They would also cover things like air conditioning and 24 hour security and access and everything.

And then the Legislature put in $4,870,000 to equip ACM at Manoa. Right. So that was something that we did back in 2007 here at the Legislature. For whatever reasons the then President Mcclain asked, As I understand it, and I was not part of these conversations, asked Governor Lingo to veto that Bill.

That veto was overridden and it became Act 11. And there's a copy of Act 11 within these documents as well. Now, the next big thing was. zero, we did ULU with you folks. That was something we developed. It was actually literally in my office when we started with Heather and back in 2009.

But eventually, which started with some very generous earmarks from Senator Noye and Senator Akaka on behalf of the memory of Heather Juni, who's here today, and her father. So that's how we got Ululu started then. The one that we really run on now is Act 134. And Act 134 gave us an additional 10fte, which were then distributed.

Eight of those positions went to other campuses. I kept one for myself and one for our admin officer. So we sent positions to. We put four to West Oahu to jumpstart the ACM program there.

We put one at Kcc, we put one at hcc, we put one at lcc, and we put one in electrical engineering at Manoa, which became the Ambient Computing Lab.

In addition to that, there was very kindly, as we got to trying, since you folks tried once to do an ACM studio at Manoa and it didn't work out, for whatever reasons, you kept going. And that's when we got to.

As the West Ohio campus came online, you gave us $2 million in planning grants to plan the building. That included taking everybody up to visit USC, Chapman University, Emerson, the YouTube space, La. And then ultimately we were very fortunate to get.

It was just a little shy of $35 million to actually do the building, which, as you know, was a design. One of the two design build programs that year. We broke ground in January of 2020, right before COVID hit.

But we worked all the way through Covid, and we finished the building on time and pretty much on budget. But then we couldn't open it because of COVID for a little bit longer. And then in addition, you folks helped out to help equip that building with additional computers.

And I think we put about $750,000 in computers into that building for West Oahu. And I'm not exactly sure where the other additional funds went.

So, you know, and I was here during that time, honestly.

And I have pictures of you of going to the building when we were building it, and we were very grateful for the support of you and Michelle, who's not here, unfortunately, and Donovan, and you know. Yeah. You didn't sign the thing at the open at the, with the thing.

It's been too long. So. But I was under the impression, and I think some of the other Members as well, as we talked, that this building was going to be all the media, including film. And so to find out that there's only like six film students. And I understand... Is there, how many film students do...

Let me reset the conversation, if I may, just a little bit about workforce development and what creative media is.

No, can you just...

No, because... Because... No, because... Because you have... Because as you know. And one of the great things about UH as a system is as you can go to each campus and you can do something different that's not duplicative. Right. So Manoa, which I started, right, thanks to you folks and the board back in 2004, is the film program. The curriculum is based on USC. Everybody I hired back then was...

Okay. All right.

We understand that.

We don't have a lot of time. So. And KCC is...

KCC is called New... No, KCC is called New Media Arts. It predates us, actually, as does Leeward's TV Pro and Digital Media, as does Hawaii CC Hilo's Digital Media Program.

Right. So they each have different. But at the... But during this time, I'm just saying that we were under, because of Surf Rider. So I always say Surf Rider. That facility and the Members, a lot of the Members wanted something like that on the west side at West Oahu that they ended up building. But we thought it was going to be a full blown, including film. But my understanding is, because Manoa had film, that West Oahu doesn't have the program to do film. But that was news that was news to me.

So I don't think we're unique in the facilities being at one campus, but the major being somewhere else. So while we didn't... So for a long time, West Oahu was... First of all, it was in a classroom about the size of this. Right. But beyond that, as I mentioned, when we started Manoa, there was no social media. There was, you know, there was...

I was gonna use Friendster, to put it that way, but that was it. But there was no, most importantly, there was no smartphone, no Snapchat, nothing. So as we developed the program, not to duplicate what was already going on at Manoa. It really focused on social media, and if you. I think...

That's fine. Okay.

Well, I just want to say that it's very, very successful.

Because those students, they're wonderful students and they get jobs.

Right.

We're not criticizing that, and we're not saying that's wrong. I'm just saying that once the building was built, and when we put it in, we thought that was going to also include film. So now we have this building, and you have all the other areas, which I think have good jobs in it and everything, but that component is not there.

And if we built this $37 million facility, and my understanding is that it may not be used. And we thought, you know, the industry could rent it, that if we put a film stage studio out there in West Oahu, which is what was the vision and may still be the vision to put something out there, that this facility would serve that as well and the students. And so, but now we find that, you know, that building is not being utilized and...

Can you... Can you just let my colleagues finish before you keep interrupting? The whole time she's talking, you're putting in your mouth.

Okay, I apologize.

No. This is what I'm trying to say. Chill out, bruh, cause you're pissing me off.

Okay, I don't want to piss you off, and I apologize. But I'd like to...

Let my colleague speak. You're being argumentative. That's what you're being right now.

Hang on, everyone, because we're going to be running short of time. So, Senator Kim.

Yeah. Okay. So again, it's whether or not the facility was built for what it was intended and what it, if it's being utilized as such. And if it's not being utilized as such, then, you know, because in talking to the industry and talking to other entities. I know Manoa has wanted to go out there because I watched the regents meeting, and it was troubling that, you know, the students there are having difficulty. Yes, transportation is an issue, and the fees to go in on the weekend is an issue. So there's a lot of issues on how we utilize it.

You know, I've asked HCC because they have the MELE program and you folks have the sound board on whether or not that they've utilized it. And my understanding is that there's really no one that know how to run that board because it's so sophisticated.

And there might be one professor, Ross, who works, and they've been talking with you for two years now, trying to come up with a system or trying to get their students over there to utilize that. So I'm just saying these are concerns because apparently nobody know how to run the board at this point and can utilize it. So these are all the concerns.

Okay, may I, may I try to answer? Because I can only answer some of this because I don't do the academics. It's really up to the individual programs. I do do things like say, let's try to, let's, I'll pay for a shuttle to get Manoa students there. But you should also know that the building is being utilized by UH Manoa ICS. They actually did a poll with their students to see is it difficult to get out there. None of them had that problem. They actually take the train from the stadium and they take it out there, and they do, we do classes out there.

We're also doing classes for LCC, for Leeward Community College. You know, in the facility that we built for what's called Create(x). And they're doing really wonderful work. That facility also is anchoring a $17 million grant from Concordia University, as well as was hosting the very first National Science Foundation workshop on innovation, creativity, and culture.

None of that would happen without the building. The building has about, they have about the exact same number of majors as Manoa. They only have three faculty and one APT. Manoa has obviously way more, and they've been around twice as long. But I have always been an advocate for the Manoa program going out there.

Whether or not that has been successful has been out of my hands, unfortunately, and I absolutely would like to see that happen. On the other hand, now that Manoa doesn't want to be a part of ACM, and so they don't want to engage in any sort of ACM assets. The building is an ACM system asset.

So it's going to be one way or the other, I think, in my opinion. But of course, I designed that building very carefully to make the best possible films for our students. And it was designed to accommodate many different disciplines across creative media.

And the reason I just wanted to reset the conversation about jobs and creative media is, yes, of course, the film and television industry is vital, and it's such an important part of the diversification of our economy. But when you talk about getting jobs, these creative media skills cut across all paths. And if you, I did include...

I gave everybody. I walked, as I do, as I've done every year. Every opening session, I hand out a review. And if you look at West Oahu's job placement, it's 82-83%. They get to brag about having the highest job placement rate of any UH campus and the highest starting salary of any UH campus.

And that is largely driven by their focus in creative media as well I'm sure in business and cybersecurity. But creative media is very much responsible for the success of that campus. So it's not quite fair to say the building's unused because there are 310 majors.

I'm saying, may not be using it at its...

Underutilized. Absolutely.

That for the intent of what it was. Now, I think it's only fair to ask Manoa, because you made some statements that they don't want to be part of ACM and so forth. And...

Well, that's included in here too, because I included the decision making.

Can we have, is it Christine? Can you introduce yourself?

Sure. I'm Christine Acham. I'm the chair of the School of Cinematic Arts at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, formerly named ACM Manoa.

Okay. So I was watching the regents meeting where you folks, they said that you folks changed your name and you're no longer part of ACM and that you agreed not to take the money. And then now there's a hearing that you guys don't want to be part of ACM, so why don't you want to be part of ACM?

That actually was never the intention of the name change. And I did meet with Chris and with Dean Arnade a long time ago, two years ago. And what we were saying was that with a $37 million building, it was really hard to fundraise for our campus and our campus still needed facilities because, while yes, there is a facility at West Oahu, when we actually sort of broke down... Like last year, I did this actually for Vassilis.

I broke down one of our classes and I tried to show him... Like, basically I broke down a directing class. And I said, hey, there are 15 people in this class. Most of them have 10 minutes between classes. One kid had like no other classes that day and one other student had two hours that day.

If we know how long it takes to get from Manoa to West Oahu, using it on a weekly basis just was not going to be a possibility. There was a lot of push for us to go there on a weekly basis, which we had no... It just wouldn't work for the students. In terms of us breaking from ACM system, at the beginning, there was no conversation about breaking from ACM system. The entire question was a name change for fundraising and also for students.

Because we began to see a lot of students who would, you know, actually, it was in the newspaper, you would see a student saying, I'm dying to go to West Oahu and become an animation major. And we would go, oh, my God, like, they're at the wrong school. They need to come to, you know, UH.

So the whole name change, and if you ever look at our very first memo that we wrote to David Lassner in order to get the name change, there were two reasons that were stated. One, fundraising. Because the State of Hawaii sees ACM is taken care of. They got this big building, but Manoa couldn't fundraise, or we were having very difficult time fundraising. And then the second part was just so those students in Hawaii could know where to come if they wanted to do film and if they wanted to do animation.

Because cinematic arts is just known around the country as, like, you know, come if you want to do film. So those were the two reasons. However, unfortunately, that ended up being an issue for Chris, and we were blocked for two years. So during this two years of being blocked from changing the name, it ended up being the situation where our final memo we got was said that you can change your name if you say you're no longer taking any money from ACM System. And we said, sure, because we weren't getting any money from ACM System at that point.

Because the minute that Chris had issues with our wanting to change the name, he sort of stopped giving us money. Actually, one year he gave us $100,000. And then when the name change stuff came up, he took it back. And it wasn't until, like, maybe a year later that one of the regents really pushed and got the money transferred back. I think Vassilis was the one who actually got the money transferred back to SC and Manoa. So the question wasn't breaking with ACM System because I think that really makes it sound like we're siloing.

And we have no intention of siloing, and we've never siloed. As a matter of fact, we have an articulation agreement with, UH Maui. We're almost finished our articulation agreement with Kapiʻolani Community College. We have a working relationship with UH West Oahu, where we share a $500,000 grant together.

And we actually use that grant to provide equipment for both Honolulu Community College and us so that our sound programs can work together. And it also pays for GA to kind of help with that collaboration. So we're far from siloing, and we were far from anti-ACM System. It was more that we needed a name to really get the students to us and to be able to fundraise. And to be honest, we have been able to fundraise. I left a packet. Were you able to pass it on?

Okay, so, yeah, I left a packet there that was, you know, just kind of gave you an idea of what our numbers were, what our fundraising was. And this fundraising, since we did our name change. But it also actually, if you were questioning the workforce development, our workforce development numbers are there. So you can actually see all the amounts we got, what we spent it on. And I can explain what these things are. I mean, some of them are obvious.

I understand that there is a push to have you go to a facility on the weekends where you offered bus service.

So that was another thing that, I'm sorry to smile at. But anytime I was asked to try to make an effort to use the facility, I did. So really early on, I tried to do a collaborative weekend workshop on the soundboard. Just because we actually, we now have a smaller soundboard, but we didn't know how to use that. So we contacted HCC. We got their sound. It wasn't Jon Ross. It was John Vierra at the time, and he was going to take his students and our students, and we were going to go up.

And then the sticking point was the bus. I asked Chris to fund the bus, and he said, your campus should fund the bus. David, Michael Bruno should fund the bus. And I went back to my dean, and my dean asked Michael Bruno, and Michael Bruno said, I'm not funding the bus. And I'm like, wait a minute.

I'm putting in this time and effort, and I'm running a very busy program trying to do these things. And I was just like... And my dean actually said, just let it go. Don't even worry about it. The second time was for the film production that our students wanted to make it look like a studio set. So I made sure I put my name on it so that West Oahu would take it seriously. And they didn't think it was just students doing goofy things. And I put in the application and we did successfully get approved to use the West Oahu campus.

The problem is UH West Oahu does not have, basically, professional stage manager to run the stage. So when we went up there, we couldn't use things like the green screen because it was still in plastic. We couldn't use the lights because there was no technician to the lower the lights. So it was going to end up... And also because West Oahu doesn't have the staffing to staff the place on a weekend. Like, we got the building for free. 100% got the building for free.

But the cost that you've heard kind of bantered around, which was actually about $7,000, was really to pay for a security guard, an ACM staff member, and ACM staff and a janitorial services. And I'm assuming that's because they were all overtime because they're normal hires. So unfortunately, our students could not afford that. So we did not end up using the facility. But that, like I said, was not a West Oahu issue. That was just simply a cost of labor issue. We went to Sandbox and we were able to pay them.

And that was about how much?

That was 12.50. But what it is, actually, what we do push our students to do is be professional. So we asked them to fundraise. And so they did get a $10,000 grant from UH, from UROP, which is the research organization. So we expect them to actually try to pay for some of these things and to kind of make it as realistic as possible. So they were able to pay that, which was really great of Sandbox, and they were able to use the green screen and everything at Sandbox. And Sandbox gave them like just a lot of help, which was wonderful. And we were able to shoot there for four days. And the amount, like I said, fit right within the kids' budget.

So may I... May I respond?

Anybody? He wants to respond.

Just a couple of points. This Legislature very kindly provided 10 positions and what is now over million dollars a year in funding for something called creative media starting in 2004. It has been in the base budget for over 20 years. So they are still receiving what I would consider ACM resources.

Beyond that, and this is in your book, since 2015, the Act 134 money, which was really designed for the Neighbor, for all the other campuses. They received $448,267. Now, the way our budgeting goes with every campus is we visit every campus. They put in a budget request every year. We're aware of, like, when their equipment's running out and stuff like that. So it varies from year to year. There's never a hard figure that goes to any one campus.

But I will tell you that of the 16 programs that we support now and have been leveraged in some cases, like with the LAVA Lab, into $27 million, the average campus is getting $30-50,000. Occasionally, they might get $70,000 if they need new computers or something.

But by and large, and it's thanks to you folks, our mission has continued, our portfolio has grown, but we've never come back and asked for additional funds. But we do our best. In terms of the shuttle or something like that. My only conversation that I recall was that because we're always talking about liability with students, obviously.

And there was a lot of conversation earlier about internships. The challenge with internships is that there's liability issues with students. And so you have to create an actual course for the students to be taking for them to be, if they're in our schools. There was, by the way, somewhere around 2000 something when Five-0. There was a blanket no more college interns because somebody sued Fox for over Black Swan or some intern sued or something like that. So for water is no intern. But...

How does that relate to what saying about utilizing the facility? Because there's...

Well, you're going to have to ask West Oahu to come up here to discuss what barriers they might perceive to be.

But he wanted to respond. So if he's not the one, then...

Well, what do you mean I don't want to respond?

You said you wanted to respond.

Well, I was responding to the notion that there aren't resources. I'm responding to the notion that they haven't gotten additional resources. I'm responding to the notion that we haven't always, you know... Obviously, I created that program. I am enormously proud of it.

To say that they don't want to be part of it. Is that, is that accurate?

Well, I... Is anybody here from Manoa that wants to say whether or not...

We're not here to poll. But I'm just saying that. You know...

It certainly didn't come from me. Let me put it that way.

We're here for the students. We're here for workforce development. We want to make sure that we have a comprehensive program. Okay. We... And we build facilities, and once we build it and once we give the money, it's not your money, it's not their money, it's the state's money. It's our money. And the money is there for the students, whether it's an intern, whether it's a full time student, whatever it is. Okay. And that money is supposed to be work with everybody. So at that, maybe we should have West Oahu come up and and respond. Yes.

Quick question. I guess more of a comment. I think maybe West Oahu would come up. I think this is just in general, I think I'm deeply troubled by this whole conversation that just unfolded here. And I think it's just... It seems like it's a big turf battle.

And that's very, very troubling because I think what we want is success. We want the building to be fully utilized. We want students to have access, which I'm a little troubled that you, you know, you name off all these places that have staff, but I didn't hear Maui or Big island or Kauai. Right.

And so I think the only thing that I heard from was, was that there's articulation agreement with Maui was from Manoa. So I think, you know, it's, it's... I think somebody needs to... Somebody needs to figure out how this all interplays and interacts. Because I think this is a good, you know, understanding for me of what's going on. And it's, I think it's not how it's supposed to be running.

And I think we need to really take a step back and I think we have to put egos aside and we have to figure this out, because I think something is broken. And I think, as Senator Kim said, I think we need to see success and that's all we want. Right. And so whether it's a plan, I don't know if the chancellors need to get together or the new president needs to take a look at this, but, you know, I think something doesn't seem right here. So thank you, Chair.

Okay, but may I respond, sir?

No, we're gonna have West Oahu come up.

Okay, but I just want to respond on the articulation issue because West Oahu uniquely articulates to all seven community colleges.

You're not supposed to talk for West Oahu. You don't have control over West Oahu. Please let the chancellor talk.

Aloha. Maenette Benham, Chancellor of UH West Oahu.

Everybody's, you know, fighting for your things.

So first of all, mahalo for your presentation. That was very, I think that was very clear and I agree with everything. I think you're right about us being more of a system when it comes to this particular field, which is explosive. Every day there's just new fangled futuristic activities and technical things that our students are doing.

And at ACM, UH West Oahu, we would like to see ourselves as a hub where as doing more advanced digital technology, we prepare our students to do all of these newfangled kinds of digital media. Whether it's documentaries or films, short format films, or social media. And I did give you some information about the different concentrations that we have and the number of students that we have in those concentrations.

Senator Hashimoto, we have articulations with all of the creative media programs at all of the community colleges, and we do have numbers of students that actually do transfer from their two year program to our four year program. We do have a number of students on the Neighbor Islands who complete the last two years for their BA degrees fully online as distance education students. So they do not have to leave their island home to get a bachelor's in creative media. And similar to what they are getting at Manoa, all these students do get pre-production, production, and post-production skills. And these skill sets, there are many different technical skill sets in each one of these different levels.

These skill sets prepare them to go into film, to go into television, to go into short format, to have their own businesses. Many of them work for the state, many of them have become educators going back to the high schools, elementary schools that they graduated from. So they have, in terms of their choice of careers is very, very diverse. And that's why this particular program does have close to about 75 to 80% of its graduates one year out employed here in Hawaii and with a very high pay.

I think that's great. I think that's what we want to hear. I guess what we're trying to drill down to, and especially if you're going to go more online, then I think that the question is, do you what is the plan with the building? I think that's what we're trying to drill down here too is you have the State of the art building. I told you there's a new phase for a new film studio. And you know, I, I don't know what the plan is for that but. And if you have anything to do with that.

But I think part of it is if you have the facilities. Like I was looking at your numbers, it's very interesting. I think it's great that you have the online component. I think we were telling you to grow your online side, but it sounds like from the other side there is some issues with the actual utilization of the building. And so I think that's... We're trying to drill down on that. So maybe you can tell us why things were in plastic still yet and things weren't being utilized.

There isn't anything in plastic anymore. The building is being used. We would like to be able to use the building more, but we have three faculty and only one APT person who facilitates the equipment in the building. We do not have the hands to ignite all the different elements of that facility.

So why not? What do we, what's the plan to get us to that point?

We've been asking for these positions for the last three years. Three, four years. Yeah, go ahead.

Let me just follow up. So what about contracting all that position versus you folks having to intern? Because first of all, I want to know how much usage that place has. Yeah. What is the renting out part of the usage of it? You know, we put this much money into this facility. Can you give me a rundown of how much usage of that facility is? And then what about contracting out those positions so that, I mean, you know, it seems like it hasn't been working all this time. And I want to get the biggest utilization out of something that are use in for taxpayers dollars.

And I understand there's a... You have a mill room there, but there's no program for set building or anything. So again, you're not utilizing that portion of the building. Right? I mean...

We're using it for a variety of other building of smaller things, but not the large sets, as you said.

So it seems like there's a lot, like why aren't we renting it out to productions and stuff like that, like a stage?

We have not rented it out to... We've rented it out very, for very small productions, but not very large ones. We have a, we did in December, an ACM, UH West Oahu facility use report that we could provide to you, which would give you information about the ACM.

So all of your students, of your creative media students. Now, and I know you gave us a breakdown. But the percentage of in person, because again, you know, I understand that, and it's not just in this area, but you told us 50% of your enrollment is online. Right. When we talked about the overall enrollment. So I would assume that also in creative media you have a lot of them online. But again, it goes to how much the building is being utilized.

So what we do have here in your packet that I gave you, there's a, we have 47 of our students, UH West Oahu students, who are on campus and about 52.6% of our students who are online. In a table of the packet that I had given to you, we have 39% of our students who are completely online and 60% of our students who are in person. That's as of this fall 2024.

And the 60% are actually utilizing the facility?

60%, yes.

You know, you mentioned that you have been asking for positions for three years. Do you have a list of the number of positions? Because I've seen the initial list. You know, which had a lot of positions at the time the building was open. And I guess if you were trying to get positions and those were not approved, you know, were not... Weren't you willing to consider contracting or other kinds of services, at least to allow the building to be utilized by more students and programs in the meantime?

We do have lecturers who come in and teach particular courses. But contracting, it's a little bit more complicated in terms of contracting folks to come and run our facilities because of unions, because of liability, and so forth. We can have them come in for a particular event, but not as a... Unless we hired them as a temporary worker.

Well, I guess we would be thinking of professional, you know, studio equipment type of operators, people who are used to running these types of facilities. And in the rest of state government we probably don't have those classifications anyway. So I can't see us having to deal with union concerns.

But I think our goal is to really encourage use of the facility. It's a beautiful facility. And if, you know, if you were not granted the positions, if you had told us, we would have tried to get support for those positions. Because the technical positions to operate the facility also make it possible for more use as well as making that facility available for commercial usage, which could also generate additional revenue.

I had an opportunity to listen to the Ways and Means Committee meeting as well as the Higher Education meeting and listening to what Georja was saying about good jobs. And that's like one of the things when I listen to Maenette say that, you know, get more use of the building, definitely technical positions are needed in that building.

The thing that Chris mentioned about the ACM programs not being competitive but being like, I'm like incredibly impressive numbers of students who are working. But one thing that is clear is that we like our wing is really like the, kind of like the high level production.

So we're using all of the lights, the motion devices, all of those bigger things. And so that's why it's like difficult in a sense to not have our facilities at Manoa. But 100%, they need to have sort of, you know, those technical positions to be able to run that building.

And I think what Georja was mentioning about good jobs and those kind of like, like we're the four year degree that you know, are going for those above the line jobs that we like we mentioned. But to get those good jobs training and have that practical, like, you know, support would, I'm sure be able to help that situation a lot.

Well, I guess the frustration that we feel is that, you know, the Legislature has been very supportive of creative media for the past 20 years. And when the building was being developed and designed, you know, it would seem to me that your program and West Oahu campus should have been looking at ways to partner together.

Because obviously, Manoa really does not have the kind of space that West Oahu campus has. And for such a beautiful facility, it seems sad that, you know, two years out, I mean, you know, she couldn't get the positions. But between your two programs, you know, why not work together more closely so that we can find a solution?

Can I answer that, Senator? I think that, like, I don't think our problems have, our programs have any problem collaborating whatsoever. And I think really, it's just, I don't know, like, in the planning of it, if people considered just the time it would take students to commute there. And did, maybe they didn't understand that the difference between kind of like the everyday education that students need versus like, maybe doing a weekend production somewhere, you know, And I think that that might be a little bit of the difference.

I guess one of the things that was encouraging to me is that other students from UH Manoa are also traveling to the West Oahu campus. And when I was invited to attend a briefing that Mayor Blangiardi gave at that site, you know, many of the people who attended traveled on Skyline from Hawaii State. It only took us 15 minutes to get to the campus, and we didn't have to worry about parking. And for students to come back, 15 minutes while everyone else is on the freeway is actually kind of very inspiring.

Let me just say this real quick. You know, when you have a facility that you can kind of get everything done in one place, I don't think that traveling really becomes an issue.

No, it does. From here to West Oahu, the traffic is so bad.

I fly the distance, so let's talk to me about traffic. Okay. Let's just leave it at that. But I would hope that you guys come up with a better solution on how to work with it. I do have to leave, and Senator Kim is gonna deal with the rest of this meeting, but I would like to also follow up with the questions later from the Committee.

So I'm troubled, Maenette, when you said about the issues of having other people in the liability in the building, because we heard from DBEDT and their aspiration is to have ICAN there. So I'm not sure who you're talking with. In fact, if that's an impediment now that I'm hearing. So again, there is no consistent understanding and agreement on how we're going to make these things work. Because if that's an excuse why we...

Employing people as opposed to contracting them to work, to work in our facility.

Well, I think we have to look at all aspects of how do we get to where it is we want to be. And for us to have invested all of this money into the facility. It's sad that West Oahu residents, everybody on the west side, if they want to go into film, they got to drive all the way to Manoa to do that. And I know we don't want to every college or every campus to have, you know, duplicate programs.

But in the case of this building being there, the intent from what I voted for was that it would be a full blown type of facility, including film. And that's why we have that stage and so forth. Now the stage is the stage standard industry dimensions? Okay, I'm seeing yes here. I'm shaking head here.

No, the stage is not standard industry. You're asking for industry standard, correct? No, it's too short for industry standard, which I think some of the problems that ran into when they looked at the stage. The stage I think is like around 24, and it's supposed to be around 36 to 40ft, typical for a normal production.

And the height is supposed to be 40?

Height is supposed to be 40.

The only reason why I guess you bring them up is because, you know, all of this talk about designing and it was great. We took the tour, we got the elephant doors in, but we can't fit the elephant in. The roof too low. So I just didn't understand, if we was going to be competitive, why would the elephant. And if, you know, I guess the bill out. And so the saying of the bill out said that they had talked to industry people. There's no way an industry people would ever send to build it.

Then again, we would hear about not having enough money. But did anybody come back to the Leg to say they never have enough money to make it big, enough production enough, and enough that it would help all the industries coming forward? So that's a concern for us.

Okay, so in the industry won't rent it because it's not the right size?

But I won't interrupt. I promise. Thank you for the question. I think, and as Chris was about to also, I think step up and say, you know, the, they went to great lengths in the development of this building to include everybody from all the professional sectors. So I don't think that's the issue.

What we had heard was that it was a challenge for some of the, maybe the specific labor unions, IATSE and others, for certain grip and electric components. It's a little bit different because it is for students as well. So making it work I think is something that we're willing to work with the, the facility on. I think the impediment has been the lack of the positions, the, you know, challenges with these custodial fees and the rest of it.

But if we're renting it out and if the industry is renting it, then that's the income that will come in that can pay for these positions. So that's why it's like, you know, what is it, the chicken or the egg? And so if it's sitting there and it's not being utilized, and if it's not being utilized because it's not meeting the industry needs, whatever those needs are, whether or not we thought it did or whatever, the fact of the matter is it's not being rented out and we're not getting income and therefore we're not having that kind of positions.

So I think the question about contracting... Sorry, Chris. The question about contracting is a good one and I think that's what we were looking toward and having a bit of a conversation with the vice chancellor about that because right now a lot of our industry people are out of work. What a great time for us to help work with the facility and help mobilize what we can to do these certificate based programs that then go to a job when production picks up. And they're also great people to work on local productions. Go ahead, Chris.

No, just that... Yeah, obviously the building was built for students and it is a 25 foot ceiling in the studio space. The sound stage is about 3,000 square feet. One of the things is of paramount concern is student safety. So that's why we invested in this system where the lighting system comes all the way down.

We also switched out all the lighting so it's LED so it doesn't heat up. So you want to make sure the students are... I'll be very honest with you. I think our budget on this building was. I was originally going to do a 5,000 square foot stage, but our building got cut at the last minute. So.

So we put as much as we could put into it with the 34, $8 million that you gave us to actually build it. There's about $3 million worth of equipment in it, but I think it's absolutely a state of the art stage. But you're right, in Hollywood it would probably be about 45ft. But we weren't building a Hollywood stage. We were building a student production facility.

But over the years we were led to believe that we could rent it out. Just saying. So these are the things. But realistically, if it's not high enough, that industry is not going to rent it. So then that conversation should not be even talked about because we're wasting our time.

So now we've got to cut out that element of, even if we have a sound stage out there, that they're going to utilize it because they may not. So, you know, I'm saying, so these are the fallacies and the things that get told to us Legislature, why we need to put on these, why we need these positions.

But then in reality, when we dig down deeper, we find that no, it's not going to happen because it just wasn't built that way. And that's fine. It was built that way. But we as legislators are led to believe that we would have all of these options and opportunities to raise funding for the program.

Understand that. And I do think that the value in the building and the value of the equipment, particularly in post-production, for all of the local productions as well as those that are coming to visit. And I think that is something that, while the stage may not be the ceiling height and the rest of it, as Chris said, it's, you know, for student use and training will have to be done somewhere else. And I'm sure a lot of that will be in the facility that's adjacent to it.

But how much student use is it getting? Because...

Yes, that I can't...

That's another thing.

Yeah, that's why we want to partner and bring professionals in and solve at least that part of the problem while these positions are hopefully approved in this session.

Okay, questions, Senator?

And this is not for, this is maybe this is for West Oahu. Like, I think the positions is one thing. Like, you know, I think if you can't figure out the positions, then you have to figure something else out. You know, I don't think that is the only impediment. I think it goes back to our last hearing, which is what is the vision for West Oahu? Right. And I think we need to think a little bit bigger. I think we need to be a little bit bolder. I think we need to make sure that these numbers keep going up. You know, are you not bothered by this notion that people are saying your building is empty?

Yes, we are bothered by it because it's not. And we do have a fairly large vision at the UH West Oahu, servicing our region and our neighbor island students in an affordable, accessible, and value added way. And so we're always looking for new programs. We try to be very nimble.