House Standing Committee on Transportation

Good morning. Today's Tuesday, February 3rd, 2026. It is currently 10:33 AM or convening the 10:30 AM agenda for the Transportation Committee here at the Hawaii State Legislature in Conference Room 430. Welcome back. I would like, folks, if you would just indulge me a quick moment.

I just want to introduce the Committee for the folks who are here and the folks that are on the Committee as well. So, my name is Darius. I have the privilege to serve as a Committee Chair for the House Committee on Transportation.

I have my Vice Chair today, Representative Tyson Miyake, who is doing both as a Vice Chair for the Committee on Transportation, the Committee on Housing. I have today with me also Representative Tina Nakata Grandinetti and Representative Christopher Muraoka. My Committee Members are Representative Ellie Cochran, Representative Trish La Chica, Representative Luke Evslin, Representative Elijah Pierrick, and Representative Lisa Kitagawa.

So, there have been just some changes to the House in the sense of technical. There is no physical microphone. We have microphones in the ceiling. I'm sure you folks have gotten well used to it. They're gonna work out any kinks or details and they will let me know if there's any issues that arise on our side.

So, just to briefly share, not much has changed other than the fact, if we need to, we'll be instituting a two-minute time limit for testifier. We have to adjourn before floor session.

So, if the opportunity that you can't testify, we've reviewed all written, written testimony, received by Committee, both present and late. Folks on Zoom, keep yourself muted and your video off while waiting to testify. The Zoom chat will only allow you to talk with tech staff. Please use it for tech issues only.

If you're disconnected unexpectedly, you may attempt to rejoin the meeting if disconnected while presenting testimony, we will allow it if time permits. Please note the House is not responsible for house connection—for Internet connections, bad Internet connections. In the event of a network failure, may be necessary to reschedule a hearing or schedule for decision making.

In that case, appropriate notice will be posted. For folks online, please do not use trademark or copyrighted image images and refrain from profanity or uncivil behavior, may be grounds for removal—from ground, from removal from the hearing without ability to rejoin. So, we have just a couple several agenda items today.

So, we'll start with our first bill this morning, HB 1694, relates leading to stable aviation fuel tax credit. Establishes a tax credit for studying aviation fuel distribution in Hawaii to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Provides a dollar per gallon increasing 2 cents by the additional 1% emissions reduction, up to $2 a gallon. Caps the total credit 20 million annually with carryover provisions and requires reporting to ensure transparency and compliance. This is applicable to taxable years after December 31st, 2025, and sunsets on December 31st, 2035. Vice Chair Miyake for testimony.

All right, starting off with Gary Suganuma, Department of Taxation, with comments.

Piper, Department of Taxation will stand on our written testimony. Available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Henry Curtis, Life of the Land, with comments. Jacob Aki, Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines, in support.

Chair, Vice Chair, and Members. Jacob Aki on behalf of Alaska Hawaiian Airlines. We stand on, on our written comments, but we did want to provide just a few highlights. You know, aviation is a key sector here within the state and as we are well aware, the state has very ambitious energy and sustainability goals.

And I think what is important to note that the aviation industry has been very committed to helping not just the state but across the entire country to retire overall aviation goals. But for the aviation industry, SAF is the only feasible solution that we have to reduce our carbon footprint.

Over the past several years, the aviation industry across many carriers have done a lot to reduce our carbon footprint by moving towards paper goods on the plane, trying to reduce, you know, you know, those sorts of things. But SAF really is that big marker, you know, that will help us to reduce our overall, overall carbon footprint.

It is a technology that is ready to use. It's a drop in fuel and it's something that we believe will really help us to achieve all of those goals. Cost barrier is really the big thing that is really preventing us, as an industry, from getting this on a wide scale.

We're seeing production increase across many states, but that production is slow. And we really need support, not just from the Federal Government but from also state governments, to help really incentivize the market and really send that market signal, you know, that there is investments worth made in this, in this particular industry.

This is a issue that we've been stalwart on over the past several sessions and we're really committed to not just helping the state achieve its goals post, post Nava settlement, but it's also something that we're really ambitious for as well too. So, we'll stand on our written testimony and is available for any comments, I mean any questions.

Thanks.

Thank you. Thank you. Tax Foundation of Hawaii, with comments, on zoom.

Aloha, Chair Kila and Members, Committee. My name is Colleen with the Tax Foundation of Hawaii, on behalf of our President Tom Yamachika. Tax Foundation of Hawaii has submitted written comments, and we stand on those written comments. Mahalo.

Thank you. Imua Alliance in support. Pono Pacific, Chris Bennett, in support.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Chris Bennett, Pono Pacific. This Bill has directed meaningful implication for Hawaii's transportation system, our economy, and our climate goals. Sustainable aviation fuel is essential to reducing emissions and one of the hardest to decarbonize sectors of our economy. Air travel will continue to rely on liquid fuels for the foreseeable future.

That makes access to and distribution of SAF a critical part of our overall transportation strategy. These incentives will accelerate the availability of SAF in Hawaii and move our transportation sector toward meaningful emissions reductions. Thank you. I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Kohala Coast Resort Association, in support. Hawaii Food Industry Association, in support, on zoom.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, and Members of the Committee. I'm Alexis Chapman for Hawaii Food Industry Association. We stand on our written testimony in support and I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Hawaii Farm Bureau in support. PAR Hawaii in support.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Aloha. My name is Eric Wright. I serve as President of PAR Hawaii. We're in support of HB 1695, 94, sorry, two bills today I'm testifying on. This Bill is all about helping the state achieve its decarbonization goals.

Renewable fuels that we can produce here in Hawaii can reduce greenhouse gases by 40 to 80%, as compared to conventional fuels. We have a project in our refinery in Kapolei, $100 million project, to make those fuels in Hawaii. So, supporting local jobs, diversifying our economy, that's going to come online in the next 60 days or so.

And what this Bill does, it really lowers cost to consumers. It bridges the gap between conventional fuels and renewable fuels, which is really critical for adoption in Hawaii. So, happy to answer any questions you have. Thanks for the opportunity.

Thank you. Kapolei Chamber of Commerce in support. Hawaii Renewable Fuels Coalition in support.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, and Members of the Committee. Nahelani Parsons, here on behalf of the Hawaii Renewable Fuels Coalition, in support of HB 1694.

Our coalition members include a really broad range and a diverse group not only in the transportation sector, but beyond including landowners, farmers, airlines, fuel producers, as well as those trucking or shipping, and many more.

I'm representing their broad group of interests in support of this policy that not only helps aviation but helps the entire system that goes behind it. Aviation is Hawaii's largest transportation fuel use and it's actually the hardest for us to decarbonize. We cannot electrify planes. The batteries are just too heavy. We cannot reduce our reliance on air travel.

I know I don't want to wait two weeks for my Amazon package. Sustainable aviation fuel is the only tool available to us today to decarbonize and the really good news is we are ready. It serves as a drop in fuel so that means no new planes, no new pipelines, no new storage tanks.

All the systems we have in place today can reduce emissions today. Other states are looking at tax credits to build what Hawaii already has. They're looking to build facilities that can produce renewable fuel. We don't need to do that. We just need the policy support to use the fuel being locally produced to keep it local.

Mahalo for the opportunity to testify and available if you have any questions.

Thank you. Airlines Committee of Hawaii in support.

[Unintelligible]

Thank you. Airlines for America, with comments. Simon Petri Enterprises, in support, on zoom.

Not present. Thank you. Earth Justice Network, in opposition, on Zoom.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Mike Ewall, and I serve as the Executive Director of Energy Justice Network, speaking up for our members and member groups in Hawaii. I'm also the elected, that's okay, no worries. We get that all the time.

I'm also the elected Co-Chair of the Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawaii and my testimony is affirmed by a resolution of the party seeking a study of alternatives to burnable fuels.

State law mandates that inter-island transportation, air transportation, be addressed with the various decarbonization goals that the state has, but not travel to the continents.

And yet, the plan that HDOT came up with in response to the Navajina F. versus HDOT settlement tries to expand the scope and create liquid burnable fuels that can get planes to other continents, which is not necessary, not something that we have good clean alternatives to yet.

Aside from being monstrously expensive, these biofuels are constantly, which is why they're constantly appealing to the state for subsidies. They are not carbon free, which means they violate the state climate goals and the Navajina F settlement.

The models used to justify biofuels are gained and climate scientists have documented how they make these biofuels seem as if they're climate solutions because they're not properly accounting for indirect land use changes. And I have very extensive testimony that gets into this.

I won't try to get into the details with you now. But there are alternatives to having burnable fuels and planes for inter-island transportation. Those are sea gliders and ferries that can be made electric and provided with clean electricity.

I would highly encourage you to watch the January 29th, 2025, joint hearing on Senate Bill 995 before the Senate Energy and Intergovernmental Affairs and Agriculture and Environment Committees, in which the Department of Agriculture testified to the fact that there simply is not enough land or water in the state to have a significant biofuels production industry.

Which means that these fuels would then be imported from midwestern states from South America, defeating the goal of this being something that grows a homegrown industry. And finally, a lot of this is is also something that would be produced by waste-based fuels.

The previous speaker who didn't show up I believe is with a company that's trying to take construction and demolition waste and on Oahu, make them into burnable liquid fuels, just as there's another related company trying to turn trash into liquid fuels in Maui to ship to Oahu.

And these are not going to be clean. They invariably have toxic chemicals involved, like arsenic that are 200 times higher than in clean wood, if they were using that. That was in testimony from...from the Hawaii Natural Energy Institute. And finally, these technologies cannot work on a commercial scale.

These gasification and pyrolysis technologies have failed over and over and over around the world. When they try to scale it up, they cannot operate on a very heterogeneous feedstock like waste streams. And so, we're looking at very expensive ways of just subsidizing an industry that has not been able to even make their plans work and we should not be throwing taxpayer money at this sort of industry. Mahalo.

Thank you. Thank you. And just for the record, that was Energy Justice Network. Island Energy Services with comment and one individual in opposition. Anyone online or in person wishing to testify on this matter before us? Director Sniffin.

Hello, Chair, Vice Chair, and Members. Ed Sniffin with Hawaii DOT. Apologize for the late testimony. It's going to be a habit though. I apologize for that. We stand in support. I get that people want to be on look for zero versus less, but right now, we want to make sure we start taking steps. Thank you.

Thank you, Director. Thank you.

Chairman Kila.

Hi.

If I may.

Okay. Please. If I could get your name and your—who you're speaking on behalf.

Yes, Derek Phelps with Twelve, Head of Governmental Affairs for Twelve. I appreciate the opportunity to speak. You have my written comments, which we stand on. Just one quick comment, we are advocating for a technical refinement around the term renewable fuels. And beyond that, I would just like to offer that this Bill, 1694, is both timely and necessary.

Transportation accounts for nearly half of Hawaii's greenhouse emissions, as you're aware. This Bill modernizes Hawaii's Renewable Fuels Production Tax Credit by increasing its value, reducing rewarding fuels with low life cycle emissions, explicitly recognizing sustainable aviation fuel, and relying on well-established life cycle accounting tools such as the Aragon and Grip model.

From our perspective, this Bill provides important clarity and sends a strong market signal that Hawaii is serious about attracting clean fuel investment. Its technology-neutral, performance-based approach encourages innovation while maintaining environmental integrity. For this reason, we strongly support this Bill and respectfully urge the Committee to pass this legislation.

Mahalo for your leadership and for the opportunity to testify. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else online or in person wishing to testify? Please state your name and organization for the record.

Well, I'm Luca Cuniberti with the Hawaii Transportation Council. We're actually formed from the Navajine Settlement. The Youth Council stands in support of this Bill, but of course, this is not the best solution for ultimate sustainability. You know, we've had one of our Council Members advocate for more electric planes. That's not as feasible now.

So, as an interim solution, we support this. Mahalo.

Thank you, Luca.

Chair Kila, Chair Miyake, Members of the House Traffic Committee. Aloha. I'm Albert Chi from Island Energy Services, and I just want to reiterate, we stand on our testimony. Thank you.

Thank you. Please.

Hello, I'm Ted Metros. I'm not representing anyone except perhaps the taxpayers of the state. I've had a lot of experience in the non-renewable fuels side, having worked for...for over 20 years. Presented before you today are two bills that could provide nearly $50 million in credits for sustainable aviation fuel.

One company, PAR, has the potential to claim over 80% of those. I would like to refer you to the testimony from DoTax, which is important and said these bills should be separated and SAF credit should be available essentially only under one program.

Very confusing that it's under potentially two programs, a dedicated SAF-only bill and a renewable fuel production tax credit. And unless the legislator does nothing, SAF will be available under both provisions with great disparities in value and price and refundability issues as well. Time frames, all very, very different. The other thing I wanted to comment on.

Let's pretend for a moment you're successful in separating these two, as recommended by DoTax. The $20 million on this Bill provides very little benefit. 20 million. What do we have? Hawaiian Airlines estimated before 600 million gallons.

So, $20 million, even if it went for a dollar a gallon at the lower end of the spectrum, you're talking about a little bit more than 3% coverage by this $20 million. So, you're not providing much of an incentive. And if you want it to work, what are you going to have to do?

You have to multiply it 20 times. So, what is this going to be? Let's say.

Mr. Metros, can you address the Committee, please? Thank you.

Sorry. Even if it was just a dollar account, and in a utopian world, a dollar is given to the distributors and they pass it on directly without any cut, right on over to the airline so that they can buy sustainable aviation fuel. What would that be?

It would be $600 million making this pathway and course for tax credits not viable. $600 million is about what the state has spent on all of its tax credits. Everything you fought for would be displaced by that. The state only takes in 10 billion or so dollars.

So, this would allocate more than 5% to sustainable aviation fuel if they thought there was a pathway. So, this leads us down a path. It's a baby step, but it's taking us in the wrong direction.

And I would just like to make one last comment that Hawaii Airlines provided testimony that it's a clear legal mandate as a consequence of the...case. That's not true. It's a contortion. The...case did not necessitate and justify tax credits for transpacific flight. Its goal was for...flights, consistent with HRS 225P.

And so, I would—there are measures, but I would definitely look to cut out SAF credits in the renewable fuel tax if you advance this Bill, along with some other changes. If they want this Bill, give the tax credits directly to the airlines so there's not a middleman taking a slice out and undermining it.

Thank you, Mr. Metros. Anyone else in person online to provide testimony? Okay, seeing none. Members, are there any questions? Thank you. Okay, I love everyone's passion and I apologize, I did not anticipate so much passion today.

So, moving forward for the subsequent bills remaining today, I would just ask that if you are going to provide verbal testimony, if you could just please limit it to one minute. I have tried to not cut folks off, but just for the purpose of making sure we can accomplish our goals here today.

If you could just please limit your comments to a minute for subsequent bills moving forward. Okay, next Bill today is HB 1695, relating to renewable fuels. Expands the provision of Renewable Fuels Production Tax Credit. Vice Chair for testimony.

Hawaii Do Tax with comments.

Piper, Department of Taxation. Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, we'll stand on our written comments. Available for questions.

Thank you. Hawaii State Energy Office, with comments.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Monique Zampis with the Hawaii State Energy Office. We stand on our written testimony and I'm available for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Life of the Land with comments. Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines in support.

Chair, we'll stand on our comments, given the 10 questions.

Thank you. Tax Foundation of Hawaii, with comments on Zoom.

Aloha, Chair. Tax Foundation of Hawaii stands on its written comments. Thank you.

Thank you. PAR Hawaii in support.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Eric Wright from PAR Hawaii. Very similar comments to the last bill. The difference with this Bill is it attacks other sectors of the economy. It helps with utility fuels, trucking, shipping. So, we stand in support and happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Kono Pacific in support.

Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Similar to PAR Hawaii, we'll stand in support of our comments and if you have any questions, we're here.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

Hawaii Farm Bureau in support. Derek Phelps from Twelve, in support, on Zoom.

Chair, we stand in support of our, of the Bill, and on our written comments. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii Renewable Fuels Coalition, in support.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. Nahilani Parsons, testifying in support on behalf of the Hawaii Renewable Fuels Coalition, for HB 1695. There are three major drivers behind the conversation. First, Hawaii has the clear climate and clean energy goals, and transportation remains one of our largest and most challenging sources of greenhouse gas emissions.

Second, the Navahine Settlement requires the Department of Transportation to take meaningful action to reduce emissions for the benefit of our future generations. And thirdly, we have the economic benefit. While the tax credit may go to a fuel producer, on paper, the benefit is really felt far beyond that one entity.

We're talking about entire transportation system, whether you're moving the feedstocks to the production, whether you're transporting the finished fuel, whether you're distributing the seed cake or the animal feed back to the farms and the ranches, and supporting local logistics and jobs across the whole chain.

All of this is one of the biggest, bigger, benefits of what this tax policy can do. This incentive is not forever. It is meant to do what smart public private partnerships do and that's help keep an end, help an industry scale, reduce costs and stand on its own.

So, mahalo for hearing this bell and available if you have questions.

Thank you. Mahalo Coast Resort in support. Airlines for America with comments. Energy Justice Network in opposition on Zoom.

Mahalo. I will refrain from being repetitive with my earlier comments, but they apply to this in the next Bill as well. But I'll add some additional points. Twelve had just referenced the Greet Model in their testimony on the previous bill, and this is one of the models that I was talking about when saying that they're games.

My public comment last summer on HDOT's Draft Energy Security and Waste Reduction Plan, starting on page 10, which you'll find in each of my testimonies, cites climate scientists showing exactly how that very model is flawed.

As it turns out, many of the burnable fuels are actually worse than for the climate than the fossil fuels that they would create or that they would replace, excuse me. And even when they may be less bad, it's still a bad idea for two reasons.

First, they're harmful in many other ways, from land and water use to toxicity, competition with food, risks from genetic modification, and more. And two, it makes something that is horribly expensive, far more expensive because it requires two transitions.

One, from fossil fuels to biofuels and waste based fuels and then, another to electrofuels that have the potential to be truly free of greenhouse gases.

Making two transitions by the 2045 deadline makes no sense since much of the infrastructure is good for around 30 years and no one wants to build up that infrastructure just to tear it down in 10 years and start over with a new system. Mahalo.

Thank you. Pacific Biodiesel in support.

Aloha, Chair, Vice Chair. Good to see friendly faces. Thanks for being here, Allie. I know I only have a minute, so I'm not going to read the entire testimony that I sent in.

But in light of some of the comments that just came up, I think it's important to point out that the bio—by our biofuel model, Pacific Biodiesel has been producing in the state of Hawaii for 30 years and we've done it in a regenerative way recently with our agriculture.

Recently, USC did a study, and this goes directly to comments that were made about indirect land use changes.

Recent USC, University of Southern California, study did a comparison between life cycle assessment of electric vehicles here and biodiesel and the result was that biodiesel came out ahead using 89% less water in their life cycle, 48% less energy, 41% lower greenhouse gases with biodiesel and 7% lower cost, lower total cost of ownership.

So, if you're going to talk about indirect land use changes, you have to look at the entire life cycle, not just what comes out of the tailpipe. And this is what, this is what we've stood on for 30 years. The original production tax credit helped us get to the point where we're at now.

We started 30 years ago producing 250,000 gallons a year. We're now at over 6 million. We would not have been able to do this without the support of the state and the county of Maui and the other counties that came on board. So, there's other information in my testimony. I just wanted to get that on record.

I also wanted to note that we have about 100 employees statewide right now. We're on every island. We're heavily into agriculture, thanks to Senator Mazie Hirono getting funding for us. And so, this—we moved into the food and fuel security space, and we feel like we're positioned to greatly help.

We're working with DBEDT on possibly growing rice in the state of Hawaii as well. So, we feel like we're perfectly positioned to make the best use of this, even though it's not a refundable credit, so it's not—I mean, I don't think all of our LLC members are even going to be able to use this because not all of them have tax liability in the state of Hawaii.

But this shows a tremendous amount of support for what we're doing and if we keep it local, we stock local, the production local, the use look local, all of this money comes back to the state, and I'm here to answer any questions.

Thank you, Ms. King, and out of out of respect, former council member. So, thank you. I know you're not here today in that.

Island Energy Services, Albert Chi, with comments. Thank you. RNG Coalition, in support, on zoom.

Morning, Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Yannick Sereas, Manager of State Government Affairs for the Coalition for Renewable Natural Gas.

The RNG Coalition is the national trade association with over 400 members that capture methane from organic waste streams and convert it into renewable natural gas used in transportation and for this Bill, is concerned as a feedstock for renewable fuels such as sustainable aviation fuel.

We support HB 1695 because it strengthens Hawaii's renewable fuels tax credit and will help bridge the gap the cost of renewable fuels with with that of fossil fuels and especially important for renewable natural gases. Methane is over 880 times more powerful powerful than carbon dioxide at trapping heat over a 20 year period.

So, capturing it and turning into a fuel delivers significant climate benefits. And when renewable natural gas is used, for example in sustainability fuel pathways, avoided methane emissions can dramatically lower life cycle carbon intensity in some cases be carbon negative. Policies like this turn waste into energy while supporting local investment and energy resilience. Thank you.

Thank you. Theodore Metros in opposition.

Yes, I'm Ted Metros. I am in opposition. First off, I want to correct something Pacific Biodiesel said. I do not believe there was an amendment on this Bill to make the tax credits nonrefundable. They had been non-refundable. They were changed to being refundable in 2022.

Do Tax recommended they become nonrefundable is a real key distinction. I wanted to comment as well about the assertions that this is going to energize the agricultural energy. It cannot happen. 600 million gallons a year on SAF alone would require at 600 gallons per acre, a million acres.

Even if you just wanted to cover the 60 million gallons that PAR is going to produce, the, that's 100,000 acres. The state only has 125,000 acres in agricultural land. Despite the tax credits, it will not drive agriculture, and it may not even drive production within the state. The Refundable Fuel Tax Credit allows production facilities out of state.

It's not limited in state, so things could be imported and as it stands now, importers from PAR's partner, Enos and Mitsubishi, could take the tax credit to Tokyo. So, that's where our tax dollars will go.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And one individual in support. Anyone else online or in person wishing to testify on this matter? Seeing none, Chair.

Thank you. Members, any questions? Okay. Seeing none. Okay, I'm gonna, I will cut you folks off if you go submitted at this point. I, I appreciate your folks' testimony, just trying to give deference, but we are cutting it. So, at this point, if I can move to the next measure before us.

HB 1986 relating to clean fuel standards. The First Department of Transportation to adopt rules by January 1, 2028 governing a clean fuel standard for alternative fuels in the state. Vice Chair for testimony.

Department of Transportation Director Smith in support. Thank you. More Alliance and support. Nesty in support. Pump Cleaner Fuels Hawaii in support.

Chair Vice Chair will stand on testimony and bill.

Thank you. Simonpietri Enterprises in support on Zoom. Thank you.

Aloha President Sorry has some technical difficulties before but here on behalf of Simonpietri we stand in support and we'll stand on our written testimony which was submitted. Thank you.

Thank you. With comments. Thank you. Thank you. Energy Justice Network in opposition.

Yes, I'll just stand on my written and previous testimonies on as I've released. This bill as well.

Thank you Island Energy Services. I'll retrieve a comment. Thank you. Beta Analytic in support. Low Carbon Fuels coalition in support. Ryan Kenny Clean Energy in support. RNG Coalition in support on Zoom.

Thank you Chair. Vice Chair Members the RNG Coalition stands on its written testimony.

Thank you. American Biogas Council in support and one individual in support. Anyone else online or in person wishing to testify on this matter, go ahead. Ms.King.

Thank you. Thank you Chair. Vice Chair I wasn't going to testify on this.

I didn't submit anything but I just wanted to start and support and then point out some of the things that are really important I think to renewable energy in our state and one is that we stay focused on the life cycle assessment because that will keep us from exporting our pollution in the name of clean energy and the other is being technology neutral.

There's a great injustice in the potential of requiring people to change out their diesel trucks or diesel vehicles for electric or hydrogen or Whatever may be coming down the pike, and we've seen that at the Hawaii Transportation Association Conference, when they can actually get greater benefits, as I mentioned earlier, by just changing the fuel and keeping their same vehicle, which will last 30 or 40 years, well beyond the life of a gasoline vehicle.

So I will send in testimony, hopefully this will make it through and get to the next stage, and then I will send in written testimony. But I do want to thank the folks that have signed on to this because we need this clean fuel standard, but then again, we need it for the state of Hawaii.

We are different from California, Oregon and Washington. And that's why our life cycle assessment came out different, because the way we do electricity here is different from the mainland. The way we do biodiesel is probably the most sustainable in the nation. And that's why when you compare the two, biodiesel comes out way ahead.

Thank you. Thank you. Yes. And just send it and then I'll make sure that we can get it to the Committee. Any further retained comment testimony?

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else, online or in person, Hawaii Transportation Council stands in support and guidance their energy security and waste reduction proposal.

Thank you, Luka. Thank you. Mr. Metro.

Hello, I'm Ted Metros. My comments were a little convoluted in written form, so I want to convey that this bill is interesting because it acknowledges and exempts transportation and interstate travel, and yet it captures the state.

So there's a real dichotomy in the approaches that the SAF credits are supposed to go broadly to interstate travel, but this bill doesn't do that. It makes things very complex by saying, oh, these other options can opt into the program, making this even more challenging.

If you increase the potential and draw them more in, more demand for renewable fuels is going to increase the price, not decrease the price. So they could clean up this a lot better by being specific and covering only those fuels they want. The analysis alone by these multiple options that are provided are really unnecessary.

And you could advance this much quicker. It might be viable, but it should be trimmed down to what's really necessary.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else online or in person wishing to testify? Seeing none.

Thank you, Members, any questions? Seeing none, we'll move on to our next bill before us. HB 1797, related to autonomous vehicles. Requires an automated vehicle used by a motor carrier to transport passengers commercially to have a human supervisor present in the vehicle. Establishes an income tax credit to incentivize the training of supervisors for autonomous vehicles.

Sunsets December 31, 2038. Vice Chair for testimony.

Department of Transportation Director Sniffin with comments. Thank you, Director, Department of Taxation with comments. Department of Taxation stand on the comments. Thank you. Chamber of Progress in opposition.

Good morning, Chair Members of the Committee. My name is Robert Singleton. I serve as the Senior Director of West Coast Policy at Chamber of Progress, a tech industry association that supports inclusive innovation.

I'm here today in respectful opposition to HB 1797 because it imposes an unworkable driver in requirement that will would severely limit the use cases for future autonomous vehicle deployment, placing unnecessary and restrictive rules on where and when autonomous vehicles can operate, risk hindering innovation, delaying deployment of AVs and why a result this Bill risks blocking a technology that could dramatically reduce roadway fatalities, decrease transportation emissions and drive economic growth.

By mandating a licensed human supervisor on board every passenger carrying autonomy vehicle at all times through 2038, the bill eliminates the possibility of fully driverless passenger service in Hawaii for over a decade, locking AVs into an outdated regulatory framework that bears little resemblance to how the technology is actually developing.

At this moment, There are over 250,000 paid rides in the US cities alone with autonomous vehicles. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released crash data reporting nearly 43,000 lives were lost traffic related fatalities in 2022. Research shows that at least 90% of car crashes are caused by human error.

By removing human air from roads, autonomous vehicles can help eliminate the leading causes of crashes and fatalities.

Across more than 127 million rider only miles in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Phoenix and Austin, autonomous ride sharing services recorded 90% fewer serious fatal crashes, 82% airbag deployed crashes and 81 fewer injury crashes than human drivers over the same span, same number of miles.

I'll defer to my written testimony to the rest there in the interest of time. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Alliance for Automotive Innovation in opposition.

Chair Vice Chair, Members of the Committee Tiffany Ajima on behalf of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, we are opposed to this measure. We have some concerns. We feel like the DOT already has rules and regulations in place that require a conventional human driver and so we believe that it's premature at this time. Happy to answer our questions.

Thank you.

Thank you. Tax foundation of Hawaii with comments.

Aloha. The Tax foundation stands on its written comments. Thank you.

Thank you. Operating Engineers Local 3 with comments. Autonomous Vehicle Industry association in opposition. LUCA in support.

I stand on my comments just for strict use, just for rural transportation, not in urban cores.

And one individual in opposition. Anyone else online or in person wishing to testify on HB 1797 seeing none. Chair.

Thank you, Members, any questions? Rep. La Chica.

Director Stiffen, what is the status of autonomous vehicle implementation or planning? Is it coming to Hawaii? Is there a market for it here?

There was a pilot program that was run several years ago. It's completed, so we have rules in place that allow it. There hasn't been interest from the industry to move to Hawaii. It's mainly because we just don't have the volumes that they're looking for.

They're looking at establishing larger cities first, working with WAYMO now to see what interest they would have in Hawaii because they're looking at expansions at this time. So I cannot say that there would be somebody here tomorrow, but there's definitely just now.

Where would you think of piloting a.

Test for downtown Honolulu would be perfect. From the airport to Honolulu or Waikiki. I think that would be a great opportunity for us to consider how autonomous vehicles could be run here.

On that question, Director Slippin, that pilot program, whatever relevant information you have, would you be able to send that to the Committee, please? Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Okay, Members, next bill before HB 1879, related to public transit, establishes the Department of Transportation, a fair‑use, free‑transit program to coordinate with the counties.

Establishes a fair Free Youth Transit Program Special Fund, requires biannual evaluations of the new program. And Special Fund allocates money from environmental response, energy, and food security tax credit to the fair Youth Transit Program Special Fund, appropriates monies in, into, and out of the fair Free Youth Transit Program Special Fund, requires reports to the Legislature.

Vice Chair for testimony.

Department of Transportation, Director Sniffin, in support. Thank you. Department of Education, in support. Thank you. Department of Taxation, with comments.

Good morning, Chair. Vice Chairman of the Committee, Robert Vertex. We stand on our written testimony providing comments here to answer any questions. Thank you.

Thank you. Oahu Metropolitan Planning Organization in support.

Just for, I know they're not here, but last session did the same thing. Just for full transparency, part of one of the Hawaii Revised Statutes of the Oahu Metropolitan Planning Organization requires that a member of four members for the Legislature sit on this policy board.

I previously served as the policy board chair, and it's just come down from that position. I currently serve as the Vice chair, the Oahu Metropolitan Planning Organization, and for the purpose of testimony that they provide, I do not direct them at the discretion to provide testimony. So, just for transparency.

Thank you chair. Hawaii State Energy Office with comments.

Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee, Nicole Chernohorski, Energy Office. We stand on our written Testimony and are available for any questions.

Thank you. Department of Health and Support.

Good morning. I'm Lola Irvin with the Department of Health. Good morning, Chair Keela and Vice Chair Miyake, Members of the Committee. It's great to be here and to be in support of HB 1879, of course, with the Department of Health.

We want our youth to have optimal health, and to have that, we need to have them have opportunities. I grew up taking coins out of my dad's mayonnaise jar to catch the bus. And, you know, we need kids to have the access and the resources behind them to be able to participate in public transportation.

And so, the other thing is, only 18% of our youth meet physical activity requirements. So, public transportation and participation in that is an opportunity for the kids to walk to the bus stop, make the final stop, walk into campus, walk to the bus stop, walk home, and also have the ability to get around their neighborhoods.

And so, we really appreciate the Department of Transportation supporting this, and we think it's a great public health move. So, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony.

Thank you. Council Member Dos Santos Tam, in support. Robert Morton, City and County of Honolulu Department of Transportation, in support. Hawaii Appleseed Center for Law and Economic Justice, in support.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, and Members of the Committee. My name is Abby Seitz. I'm testifying on behalf of Hawaii Appleseed, in strong support of this measure.

We believe that free transit access has the potential to lower transportation costs for families, expand access to school and recreational opportunities, lower emissions and traffic congestion, as well as enable our youth to be confident and independent.

As I noted in my testimony, although we currently have a patchwork of different fair free programs across the state, access is uneven and leaves many of our youth behind solely because of where they live, how old they are, and the type of school they attend.

By expanding access to everyone under the age of 18, and also reducing the administrative barriers to this program, as this Bill does, we can make better use of our public dollars and also increase the mobility options for our young people. Thank you for considering this Bill.

Thank you. Hawaii Youth Transportation Council LUCA in support.

Hello. Luca Kimberti, Policy and Legislation Chair, as. One of the people that helped draft this Bill, we are deeply passionate about about it as a council. I mean, you can see we have 78 pages of basic, total support for this Bill.

Talking with the youth of Hawaii, seeing the impact that Bill 54 had in our City Council here, that is going to decrease youth transit ridership drastically, especially in our houseless population. So, this is bringing back independence to our youth and also bring back affordability to our families.

Being able to get place, being able to be where I am now. I took transportation here today, public transportation, and many of my friends. I talked to Rep. Keyla about my friend from Kaneohe. She, now with the passing of Bill 54, is not sure if she can even come to school because of the price of transit.

So, this is a very important Bill to the Youth Transportation Council. We stand on our written testimony and are available for comments. Mahalo.

Thank you. Hawaii Health and Harm Reduction Center, in support. Initiative, in support. Attorney Marjorie Lau, with comments.

Good morning, Chair, Vice Chair, and Members of the Committee. I'm Deputy Attorney General Marjorie Lau. Our department provides comments on the Bill, and our points are contained in our written testimony, available for any questions. Thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you. Get Fit Kauai, in support. Democratic Party of Hawaii Education Caucus, in support. Hawaii Pacific Health Institute, in support, on Zoom.

Morning. My name is Lauren Lohr. I'm the Healthy Eating Active Living Coalition. Program manager at the Hawaii Public Health Institute. We are in strong support of this Bill, and we stand on our written testimony. Thank you.

Thank you. Hawaii Bicycling League, in support. Oahu Youth Action Board, in support. 350 Hawaii, in support, on Zoom.

You hear me?

Yes.

Okay, great. Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Sherry Pollock, and I'm with 350Hawaii. We stand in strong support of this measure. Let's be clear: climate change is not an abstract problem for the future. Climate change is happening now. We are causing it, and the longer we wait to act, the more we lose.

Children living today have already gotten a glimpse of the devastation a 1.5‑degree warmer world means because of the failure of adults to take real action when there still was time to do so. Scientists have made clear that we are part of the last generation that can stop, or at least mitigate, the devastating impacts of climate change.

To protect our climate and future, we need ambitious efforts like this measure. We urge you to pass this important legislation and let Keiki ride free. Thanks for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you. Hawaii Children's Action Network speaks in support, on Zoom.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, Members of the Committee. My name is Nicole Wu. You mentioned from Hawaii Children's Action Network.

We support this Bill, and just to let you know, we also coordinate a group called the Hawaii Children's Policy Agenda, where over 60 organizations and individuals are Members and think about what bills to support for our children and youth every session.

And this Bill is in our agenda for this year because we do think it's very important for our youth to be able to have access to opportunities and to be able to travel freely. So, we urge you to pass this Bill. Thank you.

Thank you. Greenpeace Hawaii, in support, on Zoom.

You can hear me?

Okay, great. Hi. Dave Mullinax, Greenpeace Hawaii. We stand in strong support of this. This is one of the most brilliant ideas that the Legislature has come up with in many, many years. As Sherry was just saying, we are in the middle of a climate crisis. The Legislature has determined that we are in a climate emergency.

We see houses falling into the ocean on North Shore, the fire in Lahaina. We are in the middle of a growing climate crisis, and we need to get off of fossil fuels as quickly as possible. This is one of the best and smartest ways to get off fossil fuels. It's very easy.

Once we get the kids onto the buses, that's going to take thousands of cars off of our highways. And, in fact, we should be expanding this program to include just about everybody.

If we just maybe rescinded maybe just a portion of the huge tax cut, the billion dollars in tax cuts we gave here in the state Legislature to our—to the state folks—we take a fraction of that funds.

We could pay for buses for everyone to get on, out of the cars and into the buses and off of our highways. Thank you so much. I think this is historic, and appreciate you so much for hearing this, and please pass it. It is a brilliant idea.

Thank you. Our Our Children's Trust and Support.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair, and Members of the Committee. My name is Saracen. I'm testifying in strong support on behalf of Our Children's Trust, which is a nonprofit public interest law firm.

Our organization, with Earthjustice, represented the 13 youth plaintiffs in the Navajine case, which resulted in the historic settlement in June of 2024 requiring the state to achieve zero emissions in the transportation sector by 2045. This Bill is one of many solutions that are essential to meeting that obligation.

And it is one of those rare bills that delivers economic, environmental, and public health benefits to Hawaii's people. We acknowledge that there are other bills that increase youth transit access, but this one is the most comprehensive and universal. And we'll also acknowledge that Washington State has found great success with their free youth transit program.

And we'd love to see the youth in Hawaii also experience these benefits. Mahalo for the opportunity to testify.

Thank you, Earthjustice, in support. In support. Thank you, Pono, in support on Zoom.

Aloha. My name is Paul Kapua. I'm 15 years old, and I've been riding the bus since I was 11 to get the football practice, school, and the beach when my parents weren't available to drive me. Knowing that I could take the bus means I know I need to get myself wherever I need to be.

What had stopped me from riding the bus is that, I don't always have a $1.5 exact change. And it is hard to find my HOLO card because at 7-Eleven, it can be only filled with cash.

With free youth transit statewide, these challenges will stop and many more kids will get in the habit of taking the bus and being empowered to get out of the house and to school, jobs, practice, and into their communities.

Mahalo for allowing me to testify in strong support of the Keiki Ride Free Bill, and mahalo for caring about Hawaii's Keiki.

Are you at school right now?

Yeah, I'm in the dean's office.

What school do you go to? Well, thank you for coming. We'll let you go. I know you probably have to go back to class.

Thank you. Sydney Chen in support on Zoom.

Hi, my name is Sydney. I'm 23 years old. This is my first time testifying, and I'm an intern with Our Children's Trust.

Safe and affordable transportation is so important to me because this summer I had the opportunity to go and support a congressional Bill affirming safe climate for children and the public transit system was essential to me exercising my basic civic rights and engaging in all the civic opportunities D.C. has to offer.

Additionally, standing aside all the courageous youth here today and learning about stories like, you know, fortifying rock walls to protect fish ponds from rising seas really inspires me and informs me to, you know, take action against the climate crisis, which is really harming, food security, water security, and a General way of life.

So thank you so much for this opportunity and please stand with youth today.

Well, congratulations, Sydney. I hope we see you at future hearings, and please stay engaged with the process.

Thank you. Will do.

Thank you. Chapin Fish in support on Zoom.

Hi, I'm Chapin. I'm 22 years old, and it is an honor to testify here today and voice my strong support for Keiki Ride Free. I'm also an intern at Our Children's Trust, the non-profit law firm that represents the 13 Navahine youth plaintiffs.

Through them, I learned about the imminent threat climate change poses to the youth in Hawaii. From flooded highways to disruptions to farming, fishing, and cultural practices. And these 13 plaintiffs are leaders of my generation who I look up to greatly. The settlement they reached with HDOT to decarbonize the transportation sector is the reason I'm here today.

In line with the settlement agreement, this Bill offers Hawaii the chance to uphold its end of the bargain, assume a leadership role in the pursuit of climate justice, and mitigate the threats to the youth posed here and across the country by that threat. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

Thank you. And there's 35 individuals also in support. Anyone else online or in person wishing to testify?

I would just like to mahalo every single youth that was able to make it today and testify again. You know, I didn't do a big introduction, but I'm a student from the North Shore of Oahu. I go to Asia Pacific International School. I'm skipping a good amount of my day to be here.

And, you know, these youth are. Yea, not going to school for this. But so many of these youth testified for this because they believe in it. This is something that can help countless youth across Hawaii.

This is not discriminating on where you live, how much you make or, you know, if you're being bullied in school, you can go to your own school. You can go to where you want to go. This is giving our youth freedom. This is why this Bill is so important to all the youth of Hawaii.

That's why we're testifying on this. It's important to every single one of us, and we really hope you guys pass it. Mahalo.

Thank you. I can't give you an excuse note, but I'm sure your teachers will be proud.

Anybody else online or person like to testify in the measure before us? Seeing none. Luca, don't go anywhere. I have a question for you. No, Luca, hold on. I got you right after. Deputy, you didn't formally introduce yourself to people who might not know you.

Thank you.

Sean Tajima, assistant superintendent for Department of Education.

Thank you. Mr. Superintendent, I have a question. So when you folks lay out, I know, as we've had struggles in the case of this being enacted, is there duplicity or does the DOE bus pass supersede any program that we would offer?

So we have. Currently, what we're doing is we have school bus, and then we offer the express bus pass in City bus, Maui and Big island is already free. For now. Yeah, so I think if. If this passes, we would discontinue our city bus pass and this would cover that.

So we still provide school bus. But this would make everybody, would have a city bus pass. Okay.

Just more of like the if you can speak to what's currently ongoing to capture the need for an area because this isn't meant to replace student transportation or what we're currently doing.

All the efforts we're doing to kind of engage drivers, recruit drivers, make sure that kids have access to school bus when there's no county bus or infrastructure that, you know, that nearby in their community to get to school.

But do you have something in place that would allow us to capture the current needs so that we would still make sure that they have access, if not for this, the school bus system?

Just to make sure. I understand the question. So we're still going to continue with school bus and still continue to our efforts to recruit more drivers because we are still short bus routes because of the nationwide shortage of school bus drivers. So we're going to continue our efforts to reinstate more school bus routes.

But currently what we have in place are the express bus passes for City Bus to supplement what we're not able to provide. And that's offered right now to all high school and middle school students who would normally qualify for a school bus.

Okay. Hypothetically on these. I know there are measures that would be heard before this Committee similar or different in nature.

So if you can, in the hypothetical scenario, this is enacted in law for the DOE prep testimony or response for subsequent hearings and for the Committee to consider, how does that impact your folks current plans and what you folks would adjust for future plans? Please. Does it make sense? Can we talk? Yes, please. Thank you.

We want to work with you. I just want to be clear on.

But I think that to your point, there is a nuance where there needs to be. What is the implementation and plan should this be enacted from the department's perspective, as you folks are currently offering, so it's not in conflict.

What is the adjustment to our plan.

So this would supplement that.

Or what you folks possibly would do? Right. Because this is the first time hearing it. If we adopt this, you folks would cease that program. So it's not city bus pass. Right. But I had envisioned that you folks would, if not still continue.

Right. In a hypothetical scenario. So if we can.

Thank you. Luca, I have a question for you. Yes. For the Committee and the public I've expressed concerns to look out. Previously, I've been a proponent of targeted rebates and not blanket programs. And I had shared with you, I really was hoping maybe we could expand or maybe put in provisions.

But to that point in discussion, could you just share with the Committee what your response was to me.

To your comments about putting into a program?

Well, I'd say hypothetically, I think in our discussion I shared with you, when we do targeted rebates, how do you help and uplift the folks who need it?

Not necessarily the most, because I think when I look at folks who are a household that receives government assistance, I think that's a needy family or Ohana that is making below the AMI limit, right. But when I had shared with you my ideas, you had shared concerns and why barriers become a problem. Remember that conversation now? Yeah.

So if you could just share with the Committee what your response was to me.

Yeah, you know, I think our former council Member or one of our former council Members, Kawika Pilgrim, put it very well in response to you.

But, you know, kind of part of the reason that we think this is just good as a universal program is if we have vetting that we have right now in DOE Express, we're alienating kids that live too far away or too close or, you know, that make maybe just a little bit above or, you know, myself and a lot of other friends that go to my private school, you know, you could say you are well enough to go to a private school, but sometimes it's not even affordable to do that.

You're riding right on that line of affordability and education. And we don't want families to have to sacrifice education for, you know, being able to get places. So this is just a universal program.

And, you know, I know you, you said having more entitled kids or rich kids using the bus, but arguably, you know, maybe myself is the exception in some ways because I'm kind of a transit foamer. I like taking photos of buses a lot.

But, you know, a lot of richer kids, they don't take the bus off to, no matter how much, you know, it'll help with congestion and our environment. But that's just kind of the fact of the matter. So having this universal program can benefit those that are writing right on that line, you know, don't discriminate.

We're not discriminating based on where you go to school, if it's a charter, if it's a private or if it's a public school or if it's a foreign immersion school. Not, you know, saying you live too far, you live too close, you're not able to be involved in this program.

So we're trying to make it as inclusive to the youth of Hawaii as possible.

And I want to clarify for the record, I did not raise concerns about entitled or rich kids. I had shared that when you're trying to uplift and make targeted rebates for a household that is well above the AMI limit, I think those are the folks that benefit greatly from a support network of their families.

I'm trying to assist to make sure our most needy are served and supported. And when we use taxpayer dollars in those rebate programs, when we do targeted versus blanket, it has a real impact. So I just want to clarify for the record. I appreciate your comments and being here today. Thank you so much, everyone. Yeah, of course.

Thank you. And you should be proud of all the testimony you folks got.

We are. We're very proud as a council.

Okay, thank you. Members Last measure before HB2034 related to transportation requires and appropriates funds for Department of Transportation to establish a pilot program offer fully subsidized public transit passes for Department employees. Vice Chair for testimony.

Attorney General Lopez with comments.

Aloha Chair, Vice Chair and Members of the Committee. I'm Deputy Attorney General Yvonne Shinmura. We had submitted comments and we are available for any questions. Thank you. Thank you.

Department of Transportation Director Sniffin in support. Thank you. Oahu Metropolitan Planning Organization and Support. Department of Health and support.

Good morning, Lola Irvin with the Department of Health. And thank you, Chair and Vice Chair and Members of the Committee for hearing this bill. The Department of Health supports having default options so people can be healthy. And so that means that we need to integrate our policies, our systems and our built environment.

So every step along the way, we're putting resources so you can choose the healthy option. And it's the easy option to choose. Well, what's happening is only 33% of our adults are physically active. And we know from studies that transit users are four times more likely to meet physical activity requirements. So it's just built into the day.

That's default. The other thing is, as we've heard from many of our youth, I'm sorry, my generation really made a mess of just the kind of ways that we've engineered physical activity out of our day and also the way we built in the environment. So this actually then provides that default option.

And starting with state workers as a pilot, we are grateful. Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony. Lola, what generation was that?

I'm kidding.

City and county of Honolulu Department of Transportation in Department of Transportation services and support. UPW in support EMUA alliance in support. HGEA in support. 350 Hawaii in support. Greenpeace Hawaii in support. On Zoom.

Yes, good morning. Thank you for hearing this and for considering this. This goes along we were just talking about earlier the more that we can get people out of their cars and into public transportation that gets less vehicles onto our highways and it start cuts our carbon emissions. This once again is a brilliant idea.

It's one of the cheapest, easiest and simplest ways to get us off of fossil fuels and get people more involved in using public transportation. Once people start using public transport, begin to see how easy and available it is to them, if they've never experienced it, then it's hard for them to imagine why this is important.

So thank you so much. Please pass this. This is a brilliant idea. I think it's one of the, one of the things you're going to be able to say in the future. I was part of that. I made this happen and I was, I made a difference in, in fighting the isis. Thank you very much.

Thank you Earth justice and support. And support. Thank you. Anyone else online or in person wishing to testify on HB2034.

Members, any questions? Okay, so I appreciate everybody's testimony that was brought forth today and everyone's passion in the future for folks testifying. If we can just be mindful of the two minute time limit. I, I do want to clarify that House rules ask that committees avail testimony to the public two hours before the Committee hearing.

There will be a memo going out to the Members of the House media and Transportation and Housing later today that both myself and Chair Evslin have committed to a deadline of submitting. Sorry publicizing public testimony and Member testimony at the latest of 5pm the day before the hearing or sooner.

And I just want to say that for the record record so that when you folks are actually testifying before us there has been ample time that has been set forth for both Members and the public to review your testimony. So I do appreciate that. I appreciate Chair Evslin on for working with me on that matter.

So given the time constraint that we are on today for the purpose of decision making of all bills that are heard before us today, I would like to reconvene and sorry I would like to defer that purpose of decision making for this agenda is to set forth this Thursday at February 5, 2026 at our 9:30am agenda here at Conference Room 430 for the Committee on Transportation for the purpose of decision making.

I think I sent that correctly. So just clarifying that everything before us will defer decision making. Thursday, February 5th. 9:30am conference from 430 Hawaii state capital seeing no further business before Subcommitee is and adjourned.